WHAT GREAT SELLING LOOKS LIKE IN THE REAL WORLD

Hey, before we get into the interview, I want to make sure you're aware of our other podcasts, the Sales Questions, Brutally Honest Answers Show, which is a very quick, under 5 minutes in most cases, sometimes just a few minutes where I answer your questions. You can just send me any question to my LinkedIn profile, Brian G. Burns, and I'll put it in the queue to answer. Also, the Sales Leadership Show. If you're looking to get into sales leadership or you want to hear from the world's best sales leaders, that's where I interview them. Check it out, the Sales Leadership Show. Also at b2brevenue.com, you can learn all about all the courses. Links are in the show notes below, as well as our link to our partners over at brevitypitch.com, the fastest, easiest way to become great at sales and practice. Before it's showtime, here we go.

Now, do we really take any of the stuff that we learn all day in sales and apply it to our real life?

I think we should. There's actually some really powerful lessons you can learn in sales if if you apply it to life, and I think sometimes we just. Take the profession for granted of, oh, I'll just go into sales right out of school, or I'll just do that as a backup plan. And that's how a lot of people end up in sales. But when you really think about all the stuff that you have to go through to be successful in sales, a lot of it can definitely help you with, with other aspects of your life. So I think people don't look at it that way, but it's actually a really good benefit of the profession that I've seen over the past 14, 15 years I've been doing it.

Yeah, because I mean, sales is really getting stuff done that you don't have 100% control over. Because most jobs, it's getting stuff done, but your stuff, and you always have an excuse because you're— it's dependent on other people's stuff. In sales, you can use that excuse, but no one cares. But in life, I mean, life is getting stuff done, right? It's, you know, convincing people to help you or expedite something or understanding the real reason why they're not doing it. What are some of the things that you apply?

Well, you touched on one. I, I think it— sales is one of the ultimate accountability professions as far as the results, right? So if you aren't performing and your numbers aren't hitting quota, it doesn't matter what the excuse is. Like, at the end of the day, like, that's going to be on you, and you might have some tough outcomes if, if you're not closing deals. So I think the accountability side of it for sure has really helped me, because you have to— if, if you're not real with yourself and, and your job, then it's hard to be real with yourself outside of that. So it's forced me to be more accountable, not only at work, but Outside of that, like essentially calling myself out on my own BS. And it's also very hard. So I think there's something to that where you are doing something challenging pretty much every day because sales is a roller coaster. There's a lot of ups and downs. You get beat up, you get told no, you think you want a deal, then, you know, stuff happens. So it's, it's really hard to be, to be successful. And I think there, Being being able to do that over a longer period of time definitely helps you apply that to others. And then when when stuff happens in life that's hard, maybe it doesn't seem as challenging because you're used to doing something all day that's challenging. So I think it it helps prepare you for some of the ups and downs outside of that. And those are a couple big ones. There's definitely several other things. But you mentioned one thing too. It's like so my mom. She's had this issue with her dryer for the last three or four months, and going back and forth with Lowe's, they have some third-party service place that's supposed to help. It's a pretty new dryer, and she had the warranty plan, and you know, it just kept dragging along forever. So eventually, I just went went to Lowe's and went to the store manager, just like went above everybody, was like, "This is ridiculous. Like what's going on? Can we?" I mean, I was did it in a. Nice way, but I still just went straight to the top type thing. And I don't— if you haven't been in sales or some type of situation, you might not have done that. And then now next thing you know, there's somebody at— they're fixing it 2 days later. So it's like, it's funny how that stuff works out. So there's little things like that, but then there's also some really big things. Accountability, doing tough things on purpose.

Yeah. And kind of seeing through the BS. Because you can go through the front door, even though most salespeople still do this.

Yeah, true.

Right.

Instead of like, you know, me talking to the customer service person, eventually it's going to get to the manager. Let's just get to the manager. And also on the other side, let's say you are at a restaurant and the service isn't that great. Now you can complain to the manager, but that the person you're complaining about has access to your food. It may not be right.

Yeah.

So maybe you, you chat up the server and, you know, thank them, acknowledge that they're busy, right? Show appreciation to them instead of You know, pushing back or complaining to them because the complaining may get a snap reaction, but you're, you still have a dinner to go through and you don't wanna ruin it. You might be right, but it just doesn't serve you.

For sure. I mean, with, with that Lowe's example, I basically spun it that I know this is a third party you guys are using locally, but the reality is, is that it makes you guys look bad. When something doesn't happen, it goes back, back to you. So I mean, I, I tried to spin it that way versus just like completely trying to destroy them about it's taking 3 months. I mean, of course you gotta do a little bit of that, but it was more proactive with the way I approached it. And, and so far it's worked. Cross my, my fingers on that one. Which is another point is I think in sales you have to have a lot of challenging conversations or tough conversations where you, are pushing back a little bit, maybe delivering bad news because something happened. And that's not comfortable at all, typically. I mean, no one enjoys giving bad news typically, but it helps me. I know for myself personally, at least addressing some of those tough conversations outside of work because I'm more used to it doing it in sales because you just have to get ready for it and do it. And over the years you get better at it. And then that helps me. have those tough conversations more proactively outside of work, which I think is a really good benefit from, from sales. And then another one that, that really pops out is, I think, confidence, because I, I think we have somewhat of similar personalities, but I'm more introverted. So sales has forced me to be like that adapted extrovert where I can flip the switch when I need to, especially in front of customers. But it certainly has helped me put myself out there more in social settings or just be more comfortable talking to people. It's, it's way more natural than it was if I maybe wouldn't have been in sales. And, and I kept, that kept escalating, I think, with confidence to, for example, personal branding. I doubt I would have started posting on LinkedIn if I wouldn't have had a sales background because I would have second-guessed it or thought it was, you know, imposter syndrome, whatever it may be. So I think that confidence side. Also is, is a huge deal in sales and relating it to life.

Yeah. And let's say you're the opposite. Let's say you're an extrovert. Does your sales approach work in real life? And if it doesn't, maybe that's why it doesn't work in sales life. I mean, do you just send your value proposition to your friend or your new acquaintance at the party?

Hopefully not. Maybe.

Well, everyone's doing it, right? The exception is the smarter people who know you don't go through the front door. You find the side door and you connect up with the people, you know. And I— 2, you know, one case, a friend's wife was trying to get This appointment at Johns Hopkins with this surgeon going through the front door. He's like, "Well, we got the referral, but he won't call us back. You know, we're running out of time. We've got to make a decision." And I'm like, Johns Hopkins. And I'm thinking, okay, I know somebody who's in the medical school—a student. I have no— it's a big place.

Yeah.

I text him, hey Mike, do you happen to know Dr. Whatever? And he goes, I don't know him, but he's down the hall. What do you need? I go, friend's trying to get an appointment with him and he's having no success. He goes, hold on. Comes back, gives me the admin's Email and phone number. Done.

Well, you know, how did I know that?

I didn't know that, right? Friend calls, they're out of work. What do you do? Oh, that's too bad. I hope you have good success finding a job.

Thanks, friend. That's the easier approach.

Yes. Or Oh, well, wait a second, I've got a network. You know, I don't know exactly who's hiring or who's the best match, but you start the network. Now, would you know that as a non-salesperson? Maybe. Maybe you just pick up the phone and start cold calling. Or you kind of think, this is what I need to do. What's the smartest way to do it?

Yeah, you have to be creative in sales and you have to figure out how to solve problems, which I think definitely helps with the situation you were talking about because trying to get into Johns Hopkins the other way isn't going to work very well. Most likely there's gonna be some crazy waitlist. So yeah, I think that creativity and problem solving, I mean, pretty much daily you should be doing that in sales. Hopefully. I know there's a lot of times people aren't thinking, they're just reacting, but ideally if you're thinking, you're to plan out a big deal, you're trying to go through all these different steps. It helps you be more creative with, with other stuff where maybe you get told something like that outside of life, but then you call them out a little bit and you think through it and like, there's gotta be another way to do this faster than what they're, what they're telling me. So it, it definitely helps with that. I think also this is a big one too, is that when you, when you lose a big deal or you have bad stuff happen in sales, it's It's not not fun by any means. So, and that happens you know every so often, and it can can throw people off. But you have to recover, and you have to come back, and you have to figure it out and keep keep moving forward. So, like being able to apply that to other aspects where you don't let some bad event just completely throw you off for months on end. Some of us are better at this than others, but I think. When I've had to— when you, when you have that painful situation in sales where you don't get the commission, you lose a deal, you feel devastated there for a little bit, and then you eventually get back on the wagon, you get, get back up and running, you get some momentum going again. I think that helps with some other things that may happen outside of life because you're going to have some tough things happen in both areas. And I— it's prepared me more for all those ups and downs outside of work because I'm used to just being able to recover and be able to be a little gritty and get past stuff. So it makes people more resilient. I know that's a buzzword that gets used all the time, but it certainly has helped me for sure.

Yeah. And, and I think being able to read a situation, because we're conditioned to, you know, believe certain things, you know, and I keep referring to this Karen Reed trial. I don't know if you've seen it at all.

Not a ton, but—

Right. And the, the offense has got a great advantage because you would have to believe that the police can set somebody up, which is counterintuitive, isn't it? It's like, we're not raised to believe that. But is it possible?

Sure.

Possible. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And so you got to read the situation. And then I look at it and I go, and I said, the defense, although their arguments were great, very compelling, very persuasive, and it was a top-notch lawyer, so I can't question that, but the strategy was a disaster. They had 73 witnesses. Now I'm thinking to myself, How's the jury going to remember? Because they can't watch TV, they can't talk amongst themselves, they're only to use their notes. And well, guess what's going to happen? What happens when you go on a sales call and you talk about every feature and everything and every— they smile and they nod, but they're not going to remember why they want you versus someone else. So you don't know what that one thing is going to be. And so the defense did too much. And then I'm going, why do they do that? And I found out that the, the person, Karen Reed, was involved in the defense. I go, that's a mistake. Why? Because she's a financial person. She wants everything thrown in, every possible piece. of reasonable doubt. Well, the problem is, which are they going to believe? They go back in the jury room, and what you find out, it was 9-3 against her on her hitting him with the car, but innocent on the rest. And it's like, well, how can she— oh, well, she didn't know she hit him. See this compromise being made? I don't believe this, but maybe she just didn't notice. Hitting him with the car, and then you look at, and I go, how would I have done it? I would have. It's nine minutes. That's all that matters in this whole case. I would just focus on those nine minutes. She couldn't have done it because his Apple Watch says he died at 12:26, but she stays there till 12:29. Now, if you kill somebody. What's your instinct? To stay? Wait for the police to show up? Wait for photographers? You get the hell out of there. No, she stays. People are watching her stay. But he's dead. That's all that the lawyer— it could have been done in probably one day to really prove those elements. And it's another case where people aren't thinking like a juror. See, as salespeople, we don't want to think like salespeople because who wants to talk to a salesperson? Absolutely no one.

Nobody.

Yeah. We want to think like a client. What do they want? The juror wants— jurors want to know what really happened. What are the facts? Not opinions. What are the facts? And, and how do you prove that? And is there reasonable doubt?

That's a great one. It's— that's the classic performance conversation because they— who knows how long they prep for that trial. I'm sure weeks. Who knows how many hours staying up all night doing all kind of crazy stuff. But at, at the end of the day, it all came down to that 10 minutes or that, that, that big moment when they're in front of it and you know, how did they perform when it mattered, or what did they do leading up to that? So that, that's a great parallel as well, is that it really— all that matters, it doesn't matter how much you know or all the past work you've done. I mean, that's great. Like, the practice obviously is important, but it's how you perform when it matters in sales and definitely in a lot of other high-stakes things in life like, like that. Like, that's one of the most high-stakes things there is. So it's, it's The performance side of it definitely helps too, because you know that you, you got to be ready. And then it really does come down to 1 or 2 things typically. I mean, that's because no one's going to remember a full meeting. You know, you have an hour-long meeting, you remember a couple things. So what are those couple things that you want people to remember? And you have to understand the big picture and all the details, but you have to keep it simple and, and break it down to like 1 or 2 things that really matters. And that's definitely a big one for sales. And that, that helps you with other stuff too, as far as whatever conversations you're having in life. And, you know, I think the prioritizing too. So it's like when you have that situation, it's okay, how do you prioritize what's most important to the juror or the customer and thinking like them and prioritizing stuff too? That's another one for sales I think has helped me is that I try to cut out as much of the BS as I can and focus on the stuff that's really driving revenue and sales case. But also in my life, you know, I don't wanna surround myself with stuff that isn't pointing me in the direction I wanna go. So I try to, I can still be friendly with, with those situations, but I don't have to seek them out. So it's like I, I, I know how to prioritize better because I think I, I have to be ruthlessly prioritizing sales. And then that helps me also do that with my life of like, if, if it's not helping me get toward the goals that I want to get, whether it be health or family, whatever it may be, then it's probably not really worth my time and I don't want to spend my energy on it. And it's the same thing in sales, except a lot of people are probably not prioritizing as much as they should. But it does help me. I don't know if it's helped you at all with the prioritization.

Well, yeah, because you turn down the noise. When you think of the number of adults that spend how much time per day worrying about politics, right? We have not zero control over it, but 1/100 millionth control over it. A nominal— and most of us have no control over it the way our electoral system works. Where you live has a big dependence on if you have any impact on it whatsoever. But everybody fights about it.

Yeah.

And what is that? That's tribalism. That's innate in us. We're not doing it because we think we have a better political answer. We're doing it because we hate the other team. Right? Yankees and Red Sox. Does it really matter? Right? But they just want to hate each other. And that's okay. But that, as a salesperson, if you do that in real life at work, You know, worrying about your competition, what they're doing. You got to close something. You got to focus on you and getting your number done. And that focus, a lot of professions don't have that. Most don't have that.

Yeah.

So, and if you use it, you can use it too much in your personal life too, but Hopefully you use it positively. And I think also the ability to read that situation, read the person. Can you tell when someone's lying or not? And what's most likely to happen, your own Occam's razor. It's like, which one is logically more likely to have happened? If somebody gets hit by a car, they should look like they got hit by a car, shouldn't they?

Yep.

Right. And if they're dead at 12:30, they should still be on that lawn at 1:30, but they're not. And all of a sudden, well, what ends up happening is people stick to one emotional thing. And I think for me, I learned, you know, in real life, you notice there's a lot of people can't make a decision to save their lives, right? They're debating which car to get, which vacation location, how many kids to have for years. And life kind of determines it for them, circumstances instead of them. So how much fun would they be to sell to?

Not very much if they can't make a decision.

Right. And everyone's got the, I can sell ice cubes to Eskimos mentality. Well, not a lot of Eskimos, or some don't want ice cubes. They got enough. And no matter what you say or do, And how much you could give it to them, they don't want it. And I think salespeople don't have that mindset, but I think real life can teach you a lot about sales too.

Definitely. I mean, that example you're talking about there, it's most everything comes down to emotions or our natural tendencies, not necessarily the logic behind it. So as much as we wish it was the logic or that compelling case that they did of all those 73 witnesses. It's still, I guess, right or wrong, probably came down to emotion of what they, their instincts of what they thought really happened. So, uh, yeah, that's a good point. There's a lot of life stuff that, that can help you in sales. I think one thing that is a big one too that applies to both is the patience side of it because nobody's patient in today's day and age and, and, and we all want to get it done fast and we can make it happen. But for, for either side, if you want to get somewhere in life or sales, it's going to take years to probably get where you want to go. And it's, you have to keep building momentum. And if you keep hopping around or if you keep making changes or if you keep thinking it should happen faster, you're paying attention to what other people are doing and it's distracting you. I mean, you get a little, little chaotic with that. So I think the patience, I mean, pretty much any top salesperson I've ever met Most of them have, have built up over a period of time and they started hitting their stride at, let's say, a few years in, and then they kept doubling down and then they kept going deeper with some bigger accounts and they got, you know, probably a few lucky breaks, but then they kept just getting after it and staying focused. And, and eventually then all of a sudden they're like at the top and people are like, well, how did they get there? They, they just showed up. But then they don't see all that stuff behind the scenes. And it's, it's Not always like that in life. There's obviously a lot of exceptions, but I think you have to be patient. You can't expect stuff to happen quickly, and especially the bigger the stakes, it's going to take longer. But it's hard when you don't get that outcome you want, or you have to wait, that delayed gratification. I mean, it's tough, and I think that's where people make mistakes on both sides, is like you just want it so bad that you do something unnatural because you're trying to get there. So it's— that goes both ways. It can teach you on both sides, but I think The patience is a big deal for sure.

Yeah. And you kind of learn how flaky decisions are too. When you talk to your friends about what car they just got or where they're spending their summer vacation, you very quickly understand how fragile that is. You could pretty much talk them into something else pretty quick. And also see how they rationalize it. You know, there's a lot of, you know, 102-pound women who drive around, you know, 3-ton SUVs because they need safety.

There you go.

And, you know, there might be an apocalypse sometime soon, so they need to get out of town quick. Now, why'd they really buy that? The number one reason is they like how it feels in traffic. They're above everything. In life, they're kind of— they're 5'2, so they're below a lot of people in height. It's nice to feel above people. And that's innate, right? That, that's not even a conscious thought. That's just a feeling. And when people buy cars, it's usually a status thing. It's, it's not that I want this nice car. I want you to know I have this nice car. It's the important part.

Yeah. Well, that, that's, it's so true though. I mean, as much as we say like, don't worry what other people think, stop comparing yourself to others, which is true. Like, I, you You want to think like that, but it's just, it's natural. I mean, especially depending on where you live and keeping up with the Joneses. I mean, it's, it's, it's, and that's the same thing in sales because you, you want to be competitive, but you don't want it to turn into that full comparison because that gets a little, uh, that's going to drive you crazy because you can't control, I can't control what Brian is driving, uh, compared to me. Like, you have to try to flip it to an abundance mentality that there's enough out there for everybody, but it's easier said than done because you say that, but it's actually, how do you feel that? And then it It's crazy how much stuff that people buy just because they're trying to impress other people and not because they actually really want it. I mean, it's houses, cars, boats, watches. I mean, and you should do some nice stuff for yourself, but it's if you really peel it back of like, why am I— why do I want this? It's usually because you're trying to impress people and you might even be trying to impress people that don't even— you're not even that good of friends with, or you don't— they don't even like you that much and they're still trying to impress people. It's, it's pretty crazy.

Right. And as a salesperson, you got to know how to manage that and leverage it. Because if you don't— because it's good to be competitive in sales, but you have to be competitive and focused and not overly competitive. In some cases, you don't want to degrade somebody just so that you can win. You want to win because you are better. Not just devious. Yeah. But I think having been in sales, you really forces you to learn about psychology because you have a built-in motive to learn about it. And, and to see it in the real world is— it's fantastic because following this case, what I found, it's so complex. That every time I listen to somebody reporting it, I find all these errors where they misinterpreted a time or a reference or what caused it or a sequence in which it happened. And I go, that's how people make bad decisions, right? Imagine, what do we do? Okay, I'm meeting with Dustin at 9. I'm meeting with Brian at 11. Right? They leave your meeting. Okay, we're going with Dustin. Let's, let's see what Brian has to say just so we check the box. Oh, well, wait a second. Apparently this thing we got to focus on because we think that people really analyze things and really calculate it out 3 years in advance. No, they go with whatever they think is in their own best interest. And when you figure that out, then real life. Makes a whole lot more sense because you cut through all the BS. Because a lot of people go, well, what's— is there anything on TV that's like real life? And I go like, House of Cards, that's real life. That's how it works, right? One of the first jobs I had, we hired this Air Force major, um, retired, and his job was to walk us through the Pentagon finding all the people involved in these major programs. And what I did is he became my new best friend. I wanted the government to write in my product or describe my product in the RFP. So then everyone bidding on it would bid or have to or think they have to bid my product. All my competitors are like, oh, I've talked to the system integrators. Oh, you should do it with us. We're standard. And it's like, Okay, thanks. No, they didn't know how real life works. Everybody's, oh, that's corrupt. It's this, it's that. Call it what you want. You lost. I think it is figuring out how real life works.

I mean, it's— no one cares about the excuses or the blame game. It's, did you make it happen or did you not? And that's really how life is too, no matter I mean, we all want to be nice and, you know, compassionate with people. By the end of the day, it's about getting stuff done. As you mentioned earlier, did you make it happen? And no one really cares what excuse if you didn't do it.

Even bigger deals, more deals, faster deals. That's what it's all about. Sign up today. Put the excuses away. Excuses feel good, but they're expensive. Excuse— you know what the excuses are costing you? Tens, 50, maybe a couple hundred thousand dollars a year in lost income.

Really?

Yeah. The difference between where you are today— let's say you're making $150,000, decent, decent income, but you know there's other people in your industry making $300,000, $400,000, $500,000. Well, how are you going to do that? You all think it's just about getting a better job, a better territory, a better manager. They can help. Go do that. Then what happens? It's still you there with those leads trying to close those deals. And do you have the game? Few people do. Everyone thinks they do. Why not prove it? The market tells you what you're worth. Accept it. Now become better. And the way to become better is to improve every day. Really make a daily routine of learning and developing because it's not at the knowledge level.

You have to become unconsciously competent at these skills, which takes Time, repetition, and emotion. And I show you how to do it, how I did it, how I've taught hundreds of people to do it.

But you have to want to because I can't force you. A lot of people wish I could. So do I, but I can't. So sign up today. We'll see you next time.