WHAT PERSONALITY TYPE IS BEST IN B2B SALES AND SELLING TODAY

Hey, before we get into the interview, I want to make sure you're aware of our other podcasts, the Sales Questions, Brutally Honest Answers show, which is a very quick, under 5 minutes in most cases, sometimes just a few minutes where I answer your questions. You can just send me any question to my LinkedIn profile, Brian G. Burns, and I'll put it in the queue to answer. Also, the Sales Leadership Show. If you're looking to get into sales leadership or you want to hear from the world's best sales leaders, that's where I interview them. Check it out, the Sales Leadership Show. Also at b2brevenue.com, you can learn all about all the courses. Links are in the show notes below, as well as our link to our partners over at brevitypitch.com, the fastest, easiest way to become great at sales and practice.

Before it's showtime. Here we go. Now, in sales, everyone should be an extrovert, right? We're all out there talking to people, extending ourselves. We're the life of the party, aren't we?

It's definitely historically the way people look at sales. And obviously, if you're really outgoing, life of the party, that's going to help you to a certain extent because you're going to be more open to talking to people, etc. But I do find that at least the last few years with what I've been doing and just myself personally, I've found that there are a lot of introverts that actually can be pretty successful as well in a different way. So I think there's a little bit of a stigma that you have to be outgoing, extroverted to be really good at sales. But I think there are, there's another side of that where a lot of introverts can be good in a different way. So it's an interesting topic for sure, because I, I think there's a little bit more of a rise of introverts from what I've been seeing the last 5 or 10 years. I don't know if that's what you've been seeing, but it's, it's a pretty interesting topic as far as like, how do you recruit the best salespeople or what, what is the archetype of the best salespeople? I think it's constantly changing for sure.

Yeah. And this is why I do not teach style in sales because style is unique and personal. And to say one style is better than the other is naive. And if you think of introvert, the extreme of that is probably true. It wouldn't work in sales. You know, the person who sits at their desk, they like to work alone, has to have structure and control over their environment. And okay, but I was that guy. You know, and that doesn't mean you can't become good at sales. I think where extroverts lose it is the need to fill the room, to fill the air, to calm the silence. And that misses what they should be curious about, getting— letting the other person talk. Because we know who's talking matters most. It's not the salesperson.

Definitely.

And I think hiring managers get this wrong because they want the extrovert, because that's what they think sales is. And extroverts are probably better at prospecting, networking, probably getting the meeting. But then does that extroversion help the rest of the way? Maybe, maybe it hurts. Who knows?

No, it's all valid points. I mean, I, so me growing up, I'll give you my, my life story here. Only child, very analytical. I was more on the quieter side and I still had a good group of friends and all that, but I, I, I tended to be more of a, a loner, a lone wolf, like do my own thing. I was very comfortable In solitude or on my own. So that, that's just something I realized looking back now. And I, I would be uncomfortable in like bigger group settings sometimes. So that was something I always had to work through. But for whatever reason, I, when I did the Cutco thing, it was some awkward interview where they had a group, a bunch of people there. And for whatever reason, I could flip the switch in that situation and be more outgoing and be more gregarious and on point. I don't know what that is exactly, but I figured that out somewhat early is that I, I am introverted, but when I need to flip the switch and I'm prepared and I know what I'm talking about, I can do that. And then that's just been a natural progression over time. But, you know, if you don't understand those things about yourself, if you don't realize that you, you can break out, because that's where the introverts would, would struggle, is that you typically don't want to put yourself out there. You don't want to talk in front of big audiences. You don't want to get uncomfortable. And that's where it can, can hold you back. But I, I've been able to— someone told me it's more of an adapted extrovert. I think that's what I've became. Where I, I use it for specific situations and it helps me certainly in sales, but also I have to be aware of my energy because if you're more introverted, you're probably going to get drained more from talking to people, from doing bigger meetings, presentations, speaking. So I have to be very aware of how much energy I'm spending on when I do that type of stuff versus an extrovert can probably talk to people all day and it's nothing. They actually feed off being around people and talking to people where I'm like, I don't want to talk to more. 3 or 4 people per day if possible. So I can limit that. So, right.

And what you described was managing your intuition because that's what this really is. Just because you're an extrovert doesn't mean you can't work alone and be quiet and be a good listener, but it's against your instincts. Which is okay. You've become an extrovert in the moment because you know that's what's required. And I think to talk about this, you brought up really the definition of it is introverts get their energy by being alone. They recharge that way. Extroverts Recharge by with being with other people. And they get tired when they're alone. They don't know what to do when they're alone. They feed off of other people, which can be good, but it can be bad also, because who's going to talk too much?

Definitely the extrovert.

So they have to put the brakes on it. That's all. Be aware of it. Focus on becoming a better listener. The introverts, they have to focus on extending themselves, getting used to talking to strangers, getting used to eliciting feedback from others, hearing people out. So I hate when people say, well, this type of person does better in sales because People get into sales for one of two reasons.

They can't—

they're money motivated, which is why introverts get into sales, right?

Yep.

Which is a good litmus test because if an introvert is good at sales or money motivated, they're gonna be good at sales. Now, an extrovert naturally goes into sales because people pull them that way. They are the life of the party. They're likable. They're easy to get along with. They hold the conversation. They extend themselves. They're the connector. So they get into sales maybe because they can't do anything else. You know, a friend of mine used to say, you know, people in their 20s, they try and make a living off of good looks and personality. And that's really what people think of in sales. Somebody is likable, people enjoy meeting them, enjoy listening to them. But that doesn't mean they can sell, not in the complex sale, maybe in the simple sale, selling cars or houses, things that are transactional.

Definitely. It's reminding me of my other good friend and business partner Corey. So we're, we're similar, but we're opposite. So he's more that rainmaker, outgoing personality. We're talking about the true extrovert. He feeds being around people. He doesn't necessarily like detail-oriented type stuff, uh, likes, uh, you know, likes being around all these different folks all the time, likes doing more of the traditional business development, like getting the meetings, like getting the conversations going. But he doesn't necessarily want to lead that deal to the, the finish line because he gets more complex with a lot of details. And then I'm the opposite where I, I'm more structured, more analytical. I like the process. I like the strategy behind closing the deals. And it took us a while to realize this, but we're like, okay, how do we play off each other's strengths? Because if he's, he's really good at that part, I'm good at this part. Like, let's double down on our strengths. And then also the stuff that we enjoy doing and that we're good at. Because if you can be good at something and you enjoy it and it drives revenue in some form or fashion, like that's what you need to really focus your time on. And that's what we've figured out. So we're in a little bit unique situation because we're business partners. But, you know, from a sales standpoint, you got to realize that too. It's like, okay, if I'm maybe a little more introverted, then I shouldn't be doing as much of the lead gen business development. I should be more focused on closing the deals or vice versa. So I think the sooner you can Realize that because if you, if you're constantly putting yourself in an uncomfortable position that isn't natural for you, it sometimes it can work out because you can learn some of those things that you're talking about, Brian. But sometimes it could be where you're just putting yourself in a position to not be as likely to succeed and you're going to get drained. Or because if I was doing all that stuff that extroverts love all day, which I've had moments where I was doing that just because I thought that's what salespeople do. It, it would just wear me out and I was constantly just burned out all the time because I didn't realize what we're talking about.

And, you know, I've probably interviewed well over 1,000 salespeople, the best of the best that people nominate to be on the podcast, and most of them are introverts.

Really? Okay.

Surprisingly large amount. And I, I only had one really extreme extrovert who I basically asked about his background and he talked for 30 minutes. I literally had to cut him off. We didn't cover a single thing other than his background. And I didn't post it because it was just so one-sided. Yet somebody thought he was a— and he had success. That's why I don't pitch style. There's people with all kinds of styles that can succeed. And I think managers should be aware of that because which one does managers like? They like the extrovert, right?

Yeah, it's the traditional sales personality that everyone thinks is always going to be the best.

The appearance of activity, because extroverts probably would be more apt to be on the phone all day calling up strangers. And if they are effective at it, great. But if they're not effective at it, they still look like the salesperson. And I had a manager, and he, he gave half my territory to his friend who was this extreme extrovert rugby player. You know, I used to do this helmet move every time I talked, said his name, because he was such a Stonehead, and my boss was like, "Oh, he'll walk through walls to get into an account." And and I just I let it go. I don't fight it. There's nothing to fight over. It's just like okay. Six months later, he got one maintenance renewal closed. That was it. Not one real deal. This was complex, and these managers and engineers don't want to be pushed. Like a used car salesman or vacuum cleaner salesperson, because it works in some cases and it doesn't work in most cases. And but he loved this guy because he came from an environment where he was selling maintenance renewals, where it was a hounding sell. It was push it a little, they have to buy it. The question is, When are they gonna buy it? So it's like pushing it through the process, expediting it, which is a skill, but not a skill that applied in this position. But yet people love the, the rah-rah, the appearance of effort.

Yeah, I think it's, well, plus, at least from my perspective, the last few years, it's getting harder and harder in sales to get meetings to close some of these complex deals, assuming we're talking about a more complex environments. So it seems like it's not getting easier, it's getting harder for a variety of reasons. So there's gonna be even more introverts that are probably successful, but understandable why you would think, because there are a lot of good traits for extroverts. You know, they're gonna be outgoing, they're gonna be likable, that, that's gonna help you get meetings. There's no doubt about that. You're, they're probably gonna have confidence, which is good to a certain extent. Obviously you gotta balance the confidence, but it's good to be naturally confident and not like a cocky way that They're, they're probably good at communicating. That's not necessarily a strength for me. So I had to work on that, but your, your extroverts are probably just going to naturally be good at communicating and public speaking, which is always good. And then they're gonna have the energy and enthusiasm. So if you get beat up so much in sales, I feel like extroverts probably have that more of a positive mindset, at least out of the gate. So they can maybe get through some of that, those tougher resilience times. So it's understandable why all that stuff. Why you want to recruit those people, but I do think sales is getting harder. So if you're if if you're selling something complex that takes six nine twelve months to close, there's a lot of moving parts, a lot of people involved. It's very strategic, and you need a really a map to what you're doing. Then that's where either that expert needs to understand like that's where I need to get better at, and they're focused there, or maybe mix it up a little bit because I I've worked at some companies where they're always trying to hire the same person. It's like they always try to hire the same exact sales. person. And I guess it did work for them because they got pretty big. But at some point, it's like you need some different perspectives, some different personalities, different styles. I think that helps everybody get better when you can learn, you know, what, what is working for other folks. And you never want to copy people exactly, but you can take all these great things you learn from these different styles and make it your own, I think is what you should, you should try to do.

And why do they do that? It's because the manager likes to manage people like that, probably like themselves.

Yep.

And I went through that, and it was this lady manager, and she goes, Brian, your track record's fantastic, uh, your experience fits really well, but I think you get eaten alive with the other members of the team. And I asked her, I go, when would I be working with the other members of the team? Well, during the meetings and stuff. And I go, does anybody buy during those meetings other than you? She liked people like her. And she was, sorry to say it, an empty suit. You know, the person who gets the meeting, introduces the Se, and then closes the meeting. Right. And she gets it because she's charming. Attractive, well-dressed, well-spoken. But there's lots of ways to skin the cat. And she likes to manage people like herself. That's her prerogative. It's her choice. But it may not be the right choice. And I think managers do like hiring people like themselves. Because I'd ask her, well, describe your ideal candidate. She described herself. She didn't care about what the product did or what it did for the clients. It was all about relationships because she thought sales was all about relationships. Relationships are important, but so there's a bunch of other stuff. You know, of course, she came from a huge company that pretty much they had to buy the product. It was just when and how. And she expedited when and how. But a lot of us, I don't have that problem. I don't have a when and how problem. I have a why problem.

Yeah. Well, I, I guess we should give a shout out to the, the introverts of what traits they bring to the table. If there's, if there's some managers or leaders out there that haven't hired as many, but I, I think first off, they're gonna listen way better because I can tell you for myself, I don't always want to talk. So naturally I'm gonna prefer other people talk.

Yeah.

I'm gonna prefer other people talk more than me. And that's just something natural. So I think that's obviously a really good trait because if you're having meetings with customers, you want them to be talking 70, 80% of the time, not, not yourself. That's usually the best meeting. So that, that's a good thing for sure. I, I think they probably are better at preparing most likely versus winging it because the, if you're, more outgoing, you're probably gonna assume, oh, I can just wing it because I have that personality and I can make it happen and pivot in the meeting, whatever. The introverted person, because they, they probably want to prepare most of the stuff that they're saying, that they're gonna put a lot more effort on the front end, which there can be too much of that, but that can be really good for these complex sales environments. And then they're most likely gonna be a little more empathetic, I think, too. When, when they're trying to put themselves in their customer's shoes, like probably better at that than someone that's extroverted. I mean, again, these are just my opinions and some of that's just for me personally, what, what I do. But I think if there's people that are— haven't hired a lot of introverts, maybe they should look into it more because those traits are definitely going to help for sure if you're trying to close more complex deals over a long period of time.

So. Yeah, because the most important activity in the complex sale is thinking. And if you think it's a personal thing where it's like you're more charming and dynamic and better than the competitor, are you really gonna think?

Powerful.

Yeah.

Yeah, you're just gonna be— yeah.

Yeah, it's given to you. And I mean, you see it on LinkedIn all the time. There's usually a very attractive person writing a post, and they work for a very successful company. So people like, comment, and share their stuff. But is it because of what they say, or is it how they appear? A few—

Sorry.

Yeah, 5 years ago, the most popular person on LinkedIn on sales was this very attractive— and she was, I get 80% of my connection requests accepted. I go, do you realize that's because you're beautiful and you're blonde and you're 25 versus what you say? Just, it might be. And the other 20% are women. 80% men.

Oh, yeah.

You're at a big company and you've got more inbound than you can manage. Your challenge is which deals to work on, not any deals to work on.

A couple of things there for sure. I mean, if, if you got to play to your strengths, so I guess she was playing to her strengths and maybe she didn't realize it, but she was doing that. And then For sure, when you work for the big companies, as far as LinkedIn goes, I remember definitely when I was at the bigger companies, I mean, you, your audience would just, if you did a post about something related to your company or something that they liked, I mean, it would just naturally, you have like a whole pod of your company that would increase the engagement on the post. So I do miss that a little bit because you would get a lot more exposure on that. But yeah, I mean, I guess you gotta, you gotta play to your strengths. It doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're talking about. But, uh, I see that a lot, especially on Instagram with the sales stuff you're talking about. I see a lot of the Instagram world with, with, uh, the attractive people talking about sales or they came from sales. It's all, they always came from Salesforce or something like that, like the same companies over and over again. So it's pretty entertaining for sure. They're definitely extroverts. So most of them, they seem to be.

And how could you not believe it's you?

Right?

And now you see them off trying to start their own companies and not exactly having any success because the company's not there anymore. The bat boy on the Yankees is no better than the bat boy on the Pirates, right? Just because you happen to be with the team doesn't mean you're better. And I think this is what people get wrapped up in, in sales. But if you are an introvert listening, you got to ask yourself, can I do the things that I need to do in sales? Can I get up in front of an audience and speak? Can I pick up the phone and talk to a stranger? Can I hold a 30-minute conversation about the industry? If, if it's okay if it makes you nervous or even makes you sweat and scared, but can you do it? If you can't, maybe sales isn't for you. Maybe it— or you just need a little bit of practice to build up that social confidence because you need to do it eventually and You know, I remember in college one of the assignments was to give a presentation, and I sweated that for a month, asked the teacher if I could skip it, practiced it 100 times, went up and gave it, and I sweat through my shirt, but I did it. And afterwards I felt like 100 pounds off my shoulders. And I remember being a pre-sales engineer and giving a demo in front of a group, and I was comfortable with that. Then you get to be the salesperson. It's a little nerve-wracking, but that's okay. You work through it.

Yep, definitely. I mean, I still get nervous before most speaking engagements, a little bit before certain types of meetings. I think if you're not getting nervous, Or you don't feel that a little bit, that means there's probably something wrong that you don't care as much. So I think if, if you are getting a little nervous, that means you care. It also means you could be introverted and, and you have to get through that. But I think that's totally natural, and I still get that today. And I've gotten better over the years with the routine to help me mitigate some of that with like breathwork and different things if it's a bigger presentation. But I think it's totally natural, and it, it's a good thing to be a little bit nervous. And then you're gonna have to push yourself out of your comfort zone a little bit. So you're gonna feel like an imposter. early on. You'll feel like an imposter probably for most of your career at some points if, if you keep pushing yourself. And that's good because that means you're trying to get to the next level, you're trying to do something out of your comfort zone. And I think you just need to realize that. And then if you prepare the right way and practice like what you're talking about, you, you can get better, but you just have to control how often you're doing it. So if you're at a big company, they're going to probably suck you into a lot of meetings and all this different stuff in addition to customer-facing stuff. And then that can wear you out because I had a time where My whole day was just stacked with some type of meetings. And looking back, I'm sure a lot of them weren't very productive, or I didn't need to go on, or they could have been 10 minutes instead of an hour. But that just like sucked the life out of me because I, I can't be in front of people that much. I need to like focus it on 3 or 4 really good meetings, as, as we've talked about at other points. Like, how do I maximize my energy? What times a day am I best if I am going to present? So you have to start really Thinking deep. If you're making a career out of sales, you need to start thinking about that stuff of like, when are you best during the day presenting? If you're introverted, how many meetings can you really do at a, at a high level? And that stuff will help you if you're an introvert. If you start thinking about that, then you can mitigate some of the other stuff and the exhaustion that we're talking about.

Yeah, because most of the really extroverts that you see are better off for what's traditionally known as business development.

Yep.

Where it's networking and building up connections within the ecosystem and building up introductions for the salespeople because they don't have to go and get the deal, do all the grinding of the deal. They do the initial part. And but because the introvert has a built-in sorting, you sort it. The things that you were willing to do because you knew you only had so much energy in the day, and you probably sorted it based off of the reward to you. If you were extroverted—

You should be doing that.

Doing it, it didn't matter what it was. If I'm talking, it must be the right place to be. So I think if you're extroverted and you want to become great at sales You got to play the whole game, understand the, the details that are going on, understand how to empathize with the other person and what they're going through. And if you're not the person to do the detailed stuff, get somebody who is and get that feedback, because you only get paid if it gets closed.

For sure.

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