WHAT THE BEST SALESPEOPLE AND SALES LEADERS ARE DOING NOW

One of the hardest sales in the B2B space is recruiting, finding great candidates, creating interest with them, building rapport, getting to understand where they want to go with their life and their career, and having them become interested in a new role. Sounds simple, doesn't it?

Yeah, right.

Today's guest has not only done that, Has worked his way up into management and today is managing 60 people who do that. Now, my assumption going into this interview would be like, oh, if I manage 60 people, this would be KPI nightmare, meaning the number of calls, number of conversations, number of this, number of that. But it was just the opposite. He found a smarter way of doing it. And that's what we're going to get into. We're also going to get into the key things that have to exist in a salesperson. Number one is that internal locus of control, meaning that I'm responsible for my own success or failure. That personal ownership— million books have been written about it. Everyone thinks they have it. Uh, it all comes down to when something goes wrong. Did they take ownership even though it wasn't 100% their Fault, or did they deflect even though there was a 1% responsibility in it? Most of us deflect.

It's easy.

It feels good. But it hides the real problem. The real problem is that we're responsible no matter what. So you can deflect it, but it doesn't really change the equation. Also about being able to connect with another human being, being authentic. Because let's face it, a lot of his reps are new to sales. So grabbing a phone and being on it all day, connecting with strangers is a talent. It's a skill. It's not reading a script. The magic happens when you go off the script, but you accomplish the same objective. Let's get into this interview. This person is clearly at the A level. Watch the video. He has great communication skills, great listening skills. And if you follow this formula today, Sales success is just around the corner.

Here we go! Hey, Kevin, thanks for joining us today. As a way of getting started, give us a little background on yourself.

Oh, thanks, Brian. So, I'm a VP of Recruiting for a company called Raise Recruiting. So, we deal in different types of staffing services, contract and permanent throughout North America. And I lead a team of about 60. So many of those are recruiters from different countries as well. So Canada, Philippines, India, America, etc. So yeah.

And how'd you get into this?

That's an interesting story. So not many people when they're graduating college say, oh, you know, I really want to become a staffing agency recruiter. So I— it was 2003, so the job market wasn't the greatest. I was doing door-to-door sales at the time.

Wow.

Plus doing— I was driving people in and out of the airport. And one of the persons that I used to drive frequently owned a staffing agency. And he had said, you know, if you're ever interested, you can definitely apply for the company and we'll see where it goes from there. Lo and behold, here I am today.

Yeah, you must like it.

Yeah, yeah, I love the, um, interacting with people, uh, getting to know them, understanding their motivations, what drives them, uh, what, what's ultimately going to make, make their decision to work with me on a job, or, you know, the recruiters I support, having them work with them on a job, um, over other staffing agencies that are calling them. For the same job. Yeah.

And why leadership?

Affinity towards it. So I just always enjoyed watching other people succeed and figuring out like how to get them in a successful motion. And a lot of times it's just understanding like those intrinsic motivations and then removing Anything that could potentially demotivate them.

Such as?

Hmm.

Anything?

The micromanagement that you go through.

Yeah.

Always understanding that there's certain actions obviously that need to take place for outcomes, but really understanding bureaucracy that needs to be removed, things that really just don't make any sense for them to be successful. And making sure that they have what they need in order to be successful, whether it's the tools, the training, you know, in this case, one of the things that we're talking about today in terms of brevity. So all those different things.

Yeah. And what do you look for in a salesperson when you're hiring?

It's the, it's the natural inquisitiveness and The ability to be coached, as well as you look for, you look for somebody that just wants to succeed, not just out of like a competitive nature, but almost like a self-competitiveness. Like they're just, they're trying to hold themselves to a higher standard.

An identity, who they are.

Exactly.

And that curiosity, how do you determine that exists?

That's difficult. So a lot of times what I'll ask candidates, you know, if they're, if they're moving into like a staffing agency position is, you know, what are some of the things that you've done in the past to understand people? You know, what are some of the things that you do if you're, if you're in an open room? And a lot of times people can just say like, oh, I would do this, that, and the other thing, but I would look to see like, can this person provide a story as to how they engaged people in the past, how they got them to trust them, you know, those types of things? And then what are some of the indicators that the person's self-motivated? So, hmm, you know, did they play sports? Did they Get, like, when did, when did they get their first job? You know, how did they, how did they pay for school potentially? So there's all these different data points that you can capture to figure out, like, is this person a self-motivated individual? What are their intrinsic motivations to begin with? Would this, would this type of role be satisfying for them?

And how often do you find that? Those are hard.

Rare. Rare. Rare. Yeah, and of course, like, you're, you're going to make mistakes where you come across intelligent people and they, they're able to establish a good rapport. However, sometimes they have difficulty diving deep into figuring out, like, the motivations and being— holding themselves, like, really accountable. So those things are very difficult to ferret out, and a lot of times You just have to go with your gut and trust who you're bringing on and to really see, like, do they really gravitate to this type of work and why or why not?

Because in your business, there's probably no inbound, right? It's 100% outbound.

Yeah.

So to give like a little bit more context, you have all these different Fortune 500 companies that are dropping job requirements into your dashboard, and when they drop that into your dashboard, that means that all your competitors see it at the same exact time that you do, okay? So you could be competing against— I mean, we have one where we compete against 400 different companies, but most of the time it's around like 10, right? So these recruiters It's not going into like just your job and seeing the applicants. You have to go out into the market, engage candidates, get them to trust you. And by the way, 10 of your competitors are calling the same candidate about the same job within a 24-hour period. Yeah.

And what are the best doing differently?

What are the best doing differently? So, They try to move beyond just like the transactional conversation. Okay. So, because a lot of times, like, how are you gonna get this person to remember you? And it's kind of sad, but when you're setting the bar, normally that just involves getting to understand the person's motivations, having those deeper dive conversations. What is it about the role that you're You know, why you're currently looking right now. You know, what are you looking for in your next position and why? Um, versus just, are you available? What's your rate? Can, you know, can you accept this type of job? And just kind of throw it at them.

The emotion.

Yeah. And then trying to figure out maybe what this person struggled with in the job search to begin with. And not many agents or recruiters will take that type of time.

Yeah.

And some of my favorite, favorite instances when I was a recruiter, agency recruiter, is discovering candidates who were passed over a lot of times because they had career gaps or maybe their resume wasn't fitting the algorithm right. And just working with this and making the adjustments and, you know, telling them how to approach the interview and those gaps in their background. And seeing them get a position and maybe they've been out of work for 18 months or so. Those are, those are my favorite stories. And of course they're gonna remember you.

And how do you teach people to build that connection? Because, you know, a lot of young people haven't had phone time. You know, it's a generational thing.

Yeah. It, it, it's more difficult Now, like, like you said, generational, a lot of people, they just don't pick up the phone. So it's a matter of like getting to set them up with appointments sometimes.

Yeah.

But to, to your question, it's a lot of trial and error, unfortunately. And say a recruiter is passing on a candidate for, for an open role and I'll discover some gaps in what they're presenting. Okay, you know this this person's background is X and you're presenting them for Y. You know looks like a backward motion for this person. They're going from full time to a contract. What were the reasons this person gave to you why they're trying to make this move? And sometimes the recruiter will say, oh, the person's this, this, and this. Oh, they just said. Yeah, I'm interested. Like, that's what I call a surface-level answer. Yeah. You're supposed to go, okay, another level deep, another level deeper, and really start to really understand that motivation as to why they're, why they're making that transition or looking to make that transition.

And how long is it before you know someone's going to make it?

If I were to put a timeline on it, About 90 days, 3 to 4 months.

Yeah.

There's exceptions, obviously, that you can see in the forefront where you have to engage people, right? So if they're not making any type of effort to really engage folks, you know, what's stopping you? Oh, well, you know, I'm really uncomfortable reaching out to people. Well, that's kind of the full job.

That's the whole joke. The rest of it—

Yeah, exactly. And sometimes it's just a matter of not getting to the higher standards. So just falling too much into a transactional basis. You know, here's a person, here's a person, here's a person. Okay, well, you need to ask these types of questions. You need to dive a little bit deeper here. And some people are able to do it, and some people just can't bring themselves to be uncomfortable. Because you have to get uncomfortable in order to ask those deeper-level questions.

How did you do that?

Forced it, forced myself in a way. So one thing that I'll look for is, Does this situation make me uncomfortable? And if it's a yes, I should probably do it. But I've started off— the positions I staffed initially were highly transactional in nature. So it could be a major bank that would ask for 30 people to start next week on a desktop refresh project. So I would have to call all these people, and back then I had to get their Social Security number while I'm on the phone with them, get a contract ready and out the door. And it's just a matter of minutes that you're doing all this. So that really got my feet wet, so to speak, on getting over that fear because you have to make those calls. And then once I started to transition to more complex roles, that's where I understood that my talk tracks and line questioning and how I engage candidates in this world didn't marry as well into this world. So this person might be there for 12, 24 months. And as critical to their project and software development, project management, what have you. And these short conversations no longer worked. And I had to turn into 20 and 30-minute conversations where I'm understanding the person's motivations, their background, are they qualified for the position, all while selling myself to the candidate, selling the job to the candidate, and then I have to sell the candidate to the job and the person that's hiring for the job.

And have you seen other people take more of making, make it fun? Oh yeah. Make it funny, engaging, make it part of their personality.

Yes. So before COVID in normal situations, you'd be on a recruiting floor. So you'd hear everybody talking to candidates and I can't remember obviously specifics, but a lot of times you're laughing with the candidate and over time you develop a network too. So this might be the 3rd, 4th time that you're placing this person on a project or a new assignment.

Mm-hmm.

So you naturally have like a good conversation with them and it's fun. And before COVID too, like you would visit a lot of these candidates to see them on site, see them working and stuff. That was a lot of fun. And of course, like in the recruiting floor, you know, you gamify it yourselves with other recruiters, like, you know, how many conversions can you do here? You know, what was your network build here, you know, etc., and come up with games and awards and things like that.

And because that's kind of what I've noticed, certainly on the pure Hardcore cold calling is that the people who are good at it make it part of their personality. And, you know, when I was good at it, that's what I did. But it took a while to get good at it. Yeah.

Yeah. And there was one, there was one post that you have that resonated with me. Of course they all do, but when you would call and say, "I just have a minute." I only have a minute.

Yeah, that taught me so much business. It flipped the script on everybody. I go, "Hold on, I just got a minute." Hey, I was curious, and they're like, "What? What?

What?" Yeah, so it's thinking of like how to start off the conversation in that way that really. Pulls their attention in immediately because these candidates, normally they're receiving, you know, they might 20, 30 calls a day or messages a day through other different distribution channels. So if you sound like everybody else, they're gonna treat you like everybody else. So you may say something like, hey, hey, Brian, I only have a minute, but I wanted to go over this great opportunity. Blah, blah, blah. Or, hey Brian, looks like you were looking for a new opportunity. Hey Brian, I heard your company isn't doing— like whatever it is, you know, you do a little bit of investigation, figure out like what's it gonna resonate right off the bat? Because if you don't get that in the first 20 seconds, you're kind of done.

Well, that's it.

And I always looked at it as like, until they buy something, I don't work for them, right?

So I can do whatever I want.

Is this a customer? It doesn't seem like it.

They haven't bought anything yet, so I can do a little social engineering.

And yeah, another, another thing that I learned was it's almost like the takeaway. So, Brian, I was, I was looking through your background. The position I was going to call you about doesn't look like a match for you. Here's why. It looks like you're looking for this, this, and this. And one or two things are going to happen. They're going to explain exactly like what they're looking for, which is great that you took notice, or they're going to turn around and say, oh, well, actually what you're describing, I would be interested in that. And then be pleasantly surprised. Really? I didn't think like you'd be interested in this type of role. Could you explain why?

Well, that's it. Why call up and yell, I'm a salesperson? Right.

Yeah, exactly.

Until you— I hire you or you get placed, we're just networking here.

Yeah. And I made some mistakes in what I would call like a real sales BD role in the past where I knew a product really well because I had worked with it before. So I had just assumed that when I'm calling these folks, doing a straight-up cold call in a company where there's no real brand yet, that they're going to be as equally excited about it as I was.

Yeah, they weren't.

I was very, very wrong.

Well, this is how salespeople think.

Yeah.

If it's my job to sell it, it must be someone's job to buy it.

I was like, oh, I'm a subject matter expert. This worked well for me. I'm just gonna call people up and they're just gonna buy so much product from me, it's gonna be amazing.

And how have you liked leadership?

I love it. And it's all about seeing people grow and succeed and then also figuring out if there are gaps between where they are now, where they need to be, and there's some sort of demotivating factor. Going through the process of figuring out how to remove those things. And then the strategy components, like how do you put everything together and all these different pieces together so people are in the best spots to utilize their strengths to be successful and service the customers in the best way possible too. And I think that takes a lot in terms of engaging at the individual level as well as Looking at everything broadly.

Yeah. And how have you trained your reps? How do you get them up to speed fast?

So one of the— you're gonna have like your typical LMS tools, learning management system, where it provides you certain information, but you're only going to retain about 10% of that, right? You go through the modules, you go, oh great, that's great. And then like afterwards, you're like, I got it. You don't remember any of it, right? It's good to have it, but you need to actually put it into action. So I look for situations and tools where the person's placed in the moment. And one of the tools that I came across was Brevity, so the Brevity AI. And in that, you have the real role-playing and you can create an AI avatar, download personality types, what possible objections might be, what the milestones in the conversation, and you can watch people go through those actions and you can do it over and over again so they build that muscle memory. And one of the biggest takeaways from that, especially with my population, because there are some, a lot of them, English is the second language and they're calling candidates in a different country. So yeah, so it has to do with building confidence, and that was the first reaction I got when people went through the platform. I asked them, you know, what's different now? Why is, why is there more activity? Why is there, why is there seemingly, you know, better, better outcomes here? It's a level of confidence that these recruiters just have more confidence engaging these higher-level candidates in architects, cybersecurity, AI, etc. So that was, that was huge. And then in the moment, so when I'm going through jobs, a lot of times I'll go into the requisition and asking the recruiters this technology, that technology, what to look for, and that gives them confidence too as to how they should view be approaching the market, where they should be going, who they should be engaging.

That's it. Because I think too many sales leaders look at sales as just an activity and knowledge.

Yeah. No, no, like, it's practice. You know, it's practice and also establishing useful metrics. So, okay, if we're falling short here, how do we find out why? And then how do we improve that area? Right?

And that's it, because you brought up the original problem. If they're not comfortable making calls to strangers, that's the job.

Yeah. And it's, they may have, they may have the confidence out of the gate to reach out. But once they meet up with, no, I'm not interested, it's kind of like moving on to the next person, whether it's because of time constraints or they feel like they need to get to the next person. But instead, asking why, diving in deep, and then now you have somebody that remembers you and you can engage that person again for when something does open up. And it's going to register in your head as well. Like, okay, I talked to Brian about this opportunity for a sales leader. He wasn't interested in that at the time, but he is interested in this type of role. Let me give him a call back and tell him what I have. Yeah.

And have you found any other backgrounds other than athletics?

Maybe—

Yeah.

So anything that involves team collaboration. Yeah, have some sort of like competitive element in anything that really involves having the person getting to know others in order to succeed.

Yeah, kind of empathy. What are they thinking? What are they going through? How do I get into their head? What do they care about?

And I had sales training early on and one of the One of the things that really stuck with me is when you're going through, when you're demonstrating that empathy and you're finding those emotions, to name the emotion. So if the person is, you know, I have a glass ceiling right now, there's not a lot of opportunity to move into the next position. That sounds frustrating. And naming that emotion shows that you're listening, obviously.

Yeah.

And how about like service backgrounds, bartenders, hospitality?

Yeah.

So any, anything like if you're a bartender, actually, I'm trying to think back. I've, I've definitely had like people that have come, I've come from the, uh, waitstaff industry. You know, I worked at probably like 5 different restaurants. So yeah, absolutely. Anything where the person's engaging in conversation and asking deeper level questions. Plus like with bartending and waitstaff, that is, that is a hustle, right?

Yeah.

I used to drink like 6 coffees while, while working in the restaurant, just powering through things. Uh, and it was, it was exciting. Like it's just that, that energy that you just feed off of.

Yeah. And you kind of anticipate people's needs. What are their signals?

Do they want the bill?

Do they want another round? Are they waiting for their food?

Yeah, table turnover is key, right?

So, well, yeah, tips are cool too. And I think the other ingredient that no one talks about is like subjective feedback. Yeah.

So we, one of the, one of the things that we use internally is called SBI, so Situation Behavior Impact. So going through those things and understanding what the feedback is specifically and what the impact was of the behavior is important. And whether it's SBI or some other flow that you have, but really understanding every piece that goes into that feedback is important in how it resonates.

And how did the reps adapt to talking to a computer to get comfortable talking to people?

It's odd at first.

It is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And they're a bit surprised at how real it is. You know, a lot of times I think they're, I think they're expecting to talk to like, you know, remember Speak and Spell? Yeah, a robot. It's like, I think they're thinking that and then they look and see like, oh, wait a second, like this is built on like a real person.

Yes.

You know, I've even started to use different use cases playing with it for potentially like interview preparation.

Yes.

Because you are selling Exactly.

And I've gotten it to crack a joke with me. So I was asking it about my feed, how I was doing it, and it goes, well, I'm still on the phone with you. You must be doing pretty good.

That's great. I like the new— one of the new features is the hang-up feature. So you can toggle it so that if the conversation's not going so well, the person will hang up on you, which unfortunately happens a lot in staffing agency world.

Well, if you think about it, getting used to a robot or AI hanging up on you is probably a lot less ego-crushing than a human doing it.

Yeah, yeah. And, uh, there's a, there's a saying that I was given a long time, long time back: some will, some won't, so what? Yeah.

And that's kind of the art of the conversation is to just build it with somebody.

Yes.

Yes. And I gotta believe that the correlation between if you sound like a salesperson and your effectiveness isn't there.

If you don't sound like a salesperson, your effectiveness is pretty high.

Yes. Yeah. So if you're able to really understand those motivations in the person and then determining, okay, does what I have really satisfy these things? And just being honest, don't, don't try to take it and say like, oh, well, you asked for A, B, and C, I'm just gonna jam XYZ down your throat.

You don't have time to talk?

Well, I'll be quick.

Exactly.

And how about the more experienced salespeople? Do they feel like, oh, I don't need to do this? Or do some of them embrace it and want to become really great?

A lot of them have embraced it. So if I take the top performers, they're naturally internally competitive. So they look at it as like, okay, this is a challenge for me. Watch how good or how fast I can get through this. And it's the same folks, you just see them keep elevating.

And how do you keep those people? Because I've got to believe your space is hypercompetitive on both ends, right? For the people and for clients and—

Yeah, good question, right?

60 of them.

Yeah. So always trying to understand, are they compensated correctly? Okay. And is the environment set up to satisfy those needs? Right. Are they getting enough action? You don't want these folks sitting around idle because they'll become impatient and sometimes It, it causes like an anxiety for them. So you, you always want to see like, okay, what's their, what's their, uh, rec load right now? What, what are, what is their bandwidth? And if they have a ton of bandwidth, that's, that's not only a business problem, but that's at the individual problem. So you have to make sure that they're, they're properly fed.

Yeah, great. Hey, Dale, appreciate your time today. Where can people go to connect and follow you?

I'm on LinkedIn.

Okay.

And then also, I can be reached at kevin.newell@raiserecruiting.com.

What I liked about that is that he gets it. He understands it from both the client's perspective and the sales rep's perspective. And he's got the back of his team. He has confidence in them. He wants them to become better. He understands the separation between the performance and the performer. That is critical. And that's why having a performance background helps, because if you don't have that, you take the performance as your identity. And I think that's the key thing I got out of this Is what is your identity? Not your ego, your identity. Who are you? What type of person are you? Are you the type that gives up? Are you the type that pushes through, that sticks with it, that can take feedback, that accepts that you're not perfect, that we all are just— Human.

Human.

We make mistakes. I made a big mistake this week. It wasn't intentional. It was a sheer accident. Was it preventable? Yes, it was preventable. But I did it. And at first I beat myself up, but there's so many things, especially when you're dealing with other human beings, That we make mistakes. So what did I do? I put something in place for it not to happen again. I learned from it. I tried not to beat myself up because that— does that fix anything? Put a system in to prevent it. Also, what I got from this is that authenticity See, what do we all do? We become salespeople and then we start sounding like salespeople. We have the excited voice and we talk about our product. We talk about us. The worst thing you can do. Because people go from kind of the clerk mindset, reacting, knowing the product, sending out all kinds of quotes, Following up, we go from clerk to kind of expediter. Expediter is the person that— it sounds like hounding, but it feels like hounding, but there is an element in sales of the expediter. But then we tip into trying to find problems and talking about problems. And then we evolve Into a better salesperson. We understand things from the client's perspective and want to connect and engage with them. That's kind of how I came up with the I only have a minute. I wanted to flip the script on my cold calling because I was doing it and at first not much success. And I said, well, why am I being subservient To somebody who has— is doing nothing for me yet. I've got to create suspense, curiosity, and then bridge into asking questions. And all of a sudden, we had a conversation. They, they were just trying to help me, and then all of a sudden, they were interested in what I did. And then I was able to build from that. I turned it into a game. Start the conversation, get the meeting is that game with or without the phone. You don't need the phone. There's lots of ways to communicate with people today, a lot of ways of becoming known, liked, and trusted without the phone. The phone's critical, powerful tool. But not always the right tool at the right time. What do you want to do with your career? Do you want to just be in sales because it pays better, but you hate it? I see a lot of people who are in sales because of money, but hate it. So then you have the choice of either the money makes you happy, or you find something else. Probably not, because you get trapped. With a lifestyle that requires that money, or you look at sales as a different thing. You look at it as a puzzle, as a game, as a challenge, as a mystery that you want to unravel instead of a list of tips and tricks and assuming it's an innate skill. Who knows what it is? The thing is, if you want to become good at it, you're clearly listening to a sales podcast. That is a desire of yours. But your probably internal desire is, what's the secret to sales? You should replace sales in that question with any performance. What's the secret to cooking? What's the secret to debating? What's the secret to comedy? Well, comedy has a secret. It's timing. None of these things have a secret. They're all known. There's no hidden secrets about sales. There's different styles. There's different timing. There's different strategies. But are they really secret? You may not know them. You may not have integrated them into your personality. You may be aware of them, but not good at them. And this is the trap that we have in sales, is that we become aware of them. We all know that we should talk problem versus product, right? It doesn't matter what sales approach you take, what strategy you use, you're better off talking about the problem Because that's what the client wants to solve. They may not want to talk about the problem because it's painful to them. But if you don't, you become a thing, a commodity. And then people try and get away with the cheapest, easiest one, not because they're cheap. It's just because they don't want to face the real problem. Everyone who goes into the doctor's office doesn't go in there for an operation. They go in there for a prescription first. Can you give me a pill to make this thing go away? Sometimes it does, but sometimes you need an operation. And the sooner you face that, the probably the better off you're going to be. Same is true with sales. So how are you going to become good at sales? Most people just tell themselves they're great at sales. That's how they become good at sales. The problem is that backfires because they think they're great, but they're not. So they get mediocre results, but they're great. Can't be them. It's got to be something else. The economy, the territory, uh, the comp plan. So what do they do? They change those things. But the problem is, every time you change, are you going up Or down in your career? Who knows, right? But just out of sheer Darwinian evolution, you'd be going down. Because if to go up, people are chasing you, people want you because you are so good. But when you're on the market, you You want that job. So the job might not be as good. If the job's not as good, the likelihood of you doing as good is lower. Look at sales as something that you want to master, that you want to understand, that you have a passion for. Not selling your product, selling in general. Understanding other people, why they change, why they become open-minded, what they're going through. That is the tipping point in sales. When you get that, you'll understand sales. I got that early because both my parents were salespeople. Maybe that saved me a lot of time and effort. But of course, I looked for the secrets too. Why? Because I didn't want to do the work. Because it served me. Because if you know the secret, why do all the work? I want to do it smart, don't you? But the smart thing is understanding the game, breaking it down into tiny little pieces, finding out the best way of managing these things, anticipating the traps, the problems, the stuck deals. That's how we see it. We see the symptoms of not knowing how to close a complex sale. Lose to no decision, right? Okay, does that really exist? Yeah, whose decision? Or stuck in procurement, right? I hear this all the time. Oh yeah, it slipped into this quarter because it was stuck in procurement. What makes you think it's in procurement? They told me. Who in procurement's working on it? I don't know. They don't know. What makes you think it's in procurement? They told us. What makes them think it's in procurement? Uh-oh, it's not in procurement. It's nowhere. It's in someone's in mailbox. No decision is typically It's a commodity. It's a thing. It's a nice-to-have, not a must-have. All of these things we see as symptoms. What you need to do is understand what's causing them within the account, within the deal. And you may not know. It may take 5 or 10 years for you to learn, or you could learn today with Closing the Complex Sale. From somebody who did it every day for 30 years, who studied it like a scientist every day for 30 years. I may not know the exact reason, but I know some of the reasons. Would you like to prevent them, or would you like to pay for them in lost commission? The gap between what you're making and what you could make. That's the space. And it's not just knowing. And this is the problem I have teaching it, is you have to do it. And the problem doing it is you don't feel comfortable doing it. It doesn't feel intuitive to do it. What feels intuitive in sales is what? Answering questions, sending proposals, being a clerk. But we also know being a clerk Kills the deal, doesn't close the deal. Do you want to become good at it, or do you just want to tell yourself you're good at it? Big difference.

About $500K difference.

You decide. Go to b2brevenue.com and sign up today, or just tell yourself you're great.