The DASH Method: From Overwhelm to Fearless Authenticity

So welcome, Nicole. So tell me about yourself and what you do.

Well, I used to be a chemist for over 16 years. I almost died from mercury poisoning, so I left chemistry. I had started my business in 2008 before leaving chemistry in 2013. So I've had my business for 18 years. I spent a little time as a financial advisor in there about 5, 6 years. In the finance industry, and now I'm focused only for— since 2000, what, 20? I left finance. So I've been focused on my business for 18 years, growing it, you know, doing all that and basically guiding people to get into their own true authentic self, really hone in on what they do want with my DASH Method. And helping them step into fearless authenticity in their life and in business.

Cool. Um, so you, so you mentioned your, your, your methodology, the DASH method. Tell, tell me more about that.

So the DASH method leads you to success in anywhere in your life because how you do one thing is how you do everything, right? So the D is for define your desire. So define what you truly want. We need to get clear on it. So it's not just like one of these random thoughts of, oh, I'd like to make $25,000 in a month, or I want that house or that car or whatever. It's really getting past the material stuff and figuring out what it is that you truly want at a core level. And once you have that, that's one of the foundational pieces, the D and the A. And when you have the foundation in place, you will be able to move towards that success. Most people don't know what they want. They know what they don't want, so they get more of that. And you know, we hone in on what it is that you truly want. Coupled with that is the A for align, aligning your values, aligning your purpose, aligning who you are as that person inside who wants to be seen that has been hiding all this time. So defining what you want and aligning that with who you are and what kind of business, if you have a business, what that business actually is and how to bring it out in that true self, like aligned with your values, your purpose, and all that. Then you can S, strategize for the success. And we strategize through aligned action. So define what you want, aligning it with who you are, and then you can strategize for the success. And all the while, the H is for healing from the past emotions, trauma, all of the things that have held you back all this time.

Yeah.

So it's not a linear process.

No, it's not. It's, you know, people think that it's just like, you know, climbing up a ladder, but it's kind of like rock wall, you know, like climbing where, you know, you think you have your foot on the stirrup and then you don't. Yeah.

You get into the elevator, you think you're going to go up, but it's the Willy Wonka elevator that's flying all over the place.

I love that. I love that. And that's how we got to this discussion, is because for parents of college graduates, right, they're stuck in this advice-giving mode. Right. And what we both teach is alignment and how important that is. So, because without that and without, you know, healing the past and strategizing, but you really have to figure out who you are and what you want. So what would your advice be to parents of college grads who are watching their college grads just like be stuck and be like, oh my God, I don't, you know, I don't see them making any movement and it feels like they're being lazy. So, so what, what advice would you have for those parents?

That's a great question because I'm a mom of 4 as well. And I remember back when I was around that age getting ready to go to college, I actually thought that I knew what I wanted and I wanted to go into science, which I did, but I wanted to go to the University of Puget Sound. Because back then it was the only, um, it was the only college that had an electron microscope. So, uh, I really wanted to be involved in cutting edge and, and all of that and exploring more because they had already kiboshed my desire to become a medical examiner. So I had to pivot some things around. And when I wanted to go over there, so I'm telling the story so I can address the answer to that question is, uh, then that was too far. So they kept limiting and limiting my options until I got to a space that wasn't too far for them. It wasn't, you know, at a huge university. It was at a small college. So I ended up going to a college up in Maine, in Standish, Maine. So it fit all the pieces for them. And, but my basis for choosing that college Even though it was, okay, they'll agree to it because it's a Catholic college. They'll agree to it because it's only about 3.5 hours away. And the only reason why I wanted to go to it was, okay, well, they'll agree to it and it's only 45 minutes away from skiing. So that's how I based, you know, my future. So the advice to the parents is take a look at your kid and really sit down and talk to them and just ask questions and listen, right? Because when you ask the questions to see what their thought process is instead of pushing them into a space that you think is the best, it may not be the best. For example, when my son told me that he wanted to go right from high school, his graduation, to the military. I was like, my heart sank. And I'm not— there are a lot of military people in my family. However, in my immediate family, we weren't a military family, so I knew nothing of all of that stuff. And when he told me that, it was just like the mom feels, like, why would you want to ever do this? So I just remembered back when, when I was going to get ready to go to school and I didn't feel supported. So I said to myself, okay, like, get over your bad self, get through your own emotions, process that stuff on how you feel, because that's yours, right? That was mine. And I said, okay, I want to understand what What made you come to this? So I sat down with him and I listed out all of my questions so I could ask him the questions. And I found that he really thought this through. And he, when I heard him speak, he had this passion about it and he knew what he wanted. And so then it got me curious to ask more questions based off of what I wanted to learn. And I said, okay, I'll support you, and I don't like it, but I'll support you, right? I, I've got mom feels, and I don't like it in that sense, but I'm going to support you because this is what you want, and this is your journey, and this is what you get to decide for yourself. And you know, he's in Special Forces, and he loves it, and it brought so much wonderful things into his life, and I can't— I, if I would've steered him out of that, I could've steered him into a career that he would be miserable at regardless of how much money he could make. Right? So that's the advice is just really ask the questions to find out, did they think this through? Or if they, if they're having trouble trying to figure out what to do, tap into what it is that, and what direction And, you know, the first year of college is all about the general curriculum. So if you can steer them in the direction to learn more and explore more of what they love and what they could do, probably get to an answer. And you might learn a few things yourself. Right.

I think for a lot of parents, they have problems pushing their feelings. I mean, their I mean, they may have some trauma, right, left over, and they may be making assumptions and interpreting things wrong. You know, walk me through how you, how you, how you process that, because I think before, you know, you have to put on your own oxygen mask before you put on your kids. So how do, how do parents like come, you know, you had to do a lot of work to get to this point of like, military? Oh my gosh, that sounds like a terrible idea. Right? But how did you— how did you— you responded with such beautiful curiosity, which I love. And that's what I tell parents to do too. But how do you do that as a parent? Like, process what you need to process?

So I think there are several layers to that. Right? And in those layers, number one is what is it that you're feeling emotionally? And can you understand why? Okay, so it's about the self first. Why are you feeling what you feel? Where does that come from? Maybe explore where it lands in your body. Is it a fear, right? Because, hey, military, there's a lot of chaos in this world and This was right around, he had a COVID graduation, you know, so it was all the cars and everything. And I think that it's when we can get out of our emotions, we have to process them first. So if you can explore what you're feeling and identify what are you feeling instead of, you know, it might be sadness or whatever at first, but exploring what that really is. What fear are you fearing? Uh, what trauma are you reliving? What is that? And then once you kind of process and understand some of that for yourself, you don't have to squash it and make it go away either. You can just be okay that that is there because you can acknowledge that's there. Even with your child, like, I feel like I have this fear of whatever that is, a, a mom military kid. It could be losing you, getting out there, and you know, all the stuff that you're going to have to go through. Like, I, I don't want you to experience that pain. I didn't feel like that, but it was more of, is this the right thing? And that's his decision to make. So understanding that this is their decision, and they might need some guidance. So they're going to need the support. And if you can get out of the emotional state that you're in, instead of being reactionary and saying, that's a bad idea, or he'll never make money doing that, right? Getting into the space of going with genuine curiosity and just ask the questions around it, because I think that's a great way just to get out of the emotions. You got to process enough first. You have to acknowledge what is, and why not tell the child how you really feel? Because they might come back and say, oh no, it's not like this, is what they have an answer for that, to address that. And maybe they're the ones going to make you feel better through that communication. I had a client who was an artist years ago, and she told me how her family was so not supportive, and you're never going to make money being an artist. She sells her artwork for like $85,000 and up, one painting, you know. So she's very successful and she is around a lot of famous people all of the time. So you don't know what's inside someone. So it's more of see where you can support, see where, where they need some guidance by asking them what they need. Because a lot of times parents just assume that they are loving their child the way their child needs to be loved, and that's not how a child feels. I mean, I didn't feel like that, even though I know you can.

Yeah, you can actually be suppressed. You can actually be suppressing their, their dreams.

Yes, right?

Absolutely. And And I love the artist thing because, like, especially with the economy the way it is and layoffs and all that sort of stuff, it's, you know, and I'm a Gen X parent, and just like, you know, we were taught go to school, good jobs, you're, you're, you're golden. And that wasn't the case. And it's just, yeah, it's very hard for a parent to, to let go of that. But, but I want to talk to you about, like, what would you recommend for the college grad who can't figure out what they want to do? Right. You know, some people are, you know, like your son wants to go into the military. He knew that, right? That was a deep feeling. And when you explored that, he had the answers. He'd already done the work. But for those parents who have a college grad who's just drifting and doesn't know what they want and just seems to like flounder. What, what would you recommend for them? Because I know, I know one of the things you talk about are limiting beliefs as well.

Yes, we have a lot of different programs in us, and we propagate those programs down to our kids, to whether it's, you know, ancestral or societal, and all the things that we should do, right? And we've got these things that come into us that say, you know, I should do this and I should do that, or there are expectations from parent to child. And when those kids feel like that, and especially if the kid has grown up in a way where they're supposed to be a certain way because it's expected, so they may not have even known what their identity was because they had to be this person around these people, or they had to take care of certain things, or maybe there's even parentalism that has happened, right, because of limiting beliefs and behaviors and whatever. So the kid that's drifting, I would say more often than not, has an identity issue, right? So we want to explore what is that identity. And even adults that I work with, they don't even know what their true identity is. So it's again tapping into the D and the A, right? The, the defining your desire, what it is that you want. And I don't mean the cars and all that stuff. Again, it's what it— what is it that you want to feel in your life? Most people, it really ends up deducing down to inner peace, right? Safety, love. Some form of love, acceptance, being part of something that they can make an impact with other people, maybe, and being empowered. Because the 3 fundamental things that we all need as humans to live a fulfilled life are to feel safe and secure, to be loved and accepted, respected— that, those forms of true love and in its entirety and to be empowered. So if the child doesn't really know who they are, I would say if they can sit down and explore what are their values, what are the things that are most important to them, and start taking a look at that coupled with what is, what it is that they think that they want and just keep digging and digging, they'll be able to identify and align things that they want with the things that are important to them. And when you look at the values there, you can start to see the purpose unfolding. And then I'd say in like maybe a third column, take a look at not just the values, but the things that you love to do. What brings you joy? So if you want inner peace, joy, and happiness, What are the things that you do? What are the things that you participate in that bring you that? And then taking a look at the values. And when you start looking at the whole entire picture, something starts forming of, well, I could do this and I could do that and I could do this. Oh wait, but it's like a brainstorming process. You gotta dig in a little bit and go deeper. And why do you want that? Or why do you, why is that important to you? What does it give you? And when you keep going down and drilling down into that, you're going to get somewhere where it hits those spaces of safety and security, love and acceptance and empowerment. And then it starts to spark that inner purpose. So it will come out.

Yeah, but it's challenging because so many parents want it to come immediately. Like, we put you through school, right? We put you— we paid for your education.

Yes.

And you've had enough. You've had 21 years on this planet. Go. And even what you said earlier, just like you work with parents who don't know who they truly are because they think that work is their identity, right? You know, and the culture— kids, or the kids, right? I'm a parent, I'm a mom, I'm a dad, I'm an executive, whatever it is. They base their whole identity on that. And so I think that for a lot of people, a lot of parents, this, this launching of their college grad also brings up a lot of emotional issues for them because now they have to redefine who they are. It's not just the college grad trying to redefine who they are, but it's also the parents redefining who, who they are. And what I found in my work, and I'm sure you found this as well, is that we have a lot of these limiting beliefs that really interfere with what we can do. And thus then we have the negative self-talk of like, I'm not smart enough, I'm not good-looking enough, you know, and the comparison trap, right? Because that's all over, right? You know, you know, some influencer, 25, making, you know, $1 mil a year because they're posting content, and you're like, I'm here at home just living on rice and beans, right? You know, not that bad, but you know what I mean? Like, it's It's, it's— but there's a lot of limiting beliefs. So how do people, how do people get past their limiting beliefs? Because we all have them. I don't think there's anybody that I've come in contact with who doesn't have them, except maybe some narcissists that I've run into.

But those are, those are the biggest limiting beliefs.

Yes, exactly. They have so many.

Denial.

Exactly.

So when it comes to the limiting beliefs, element, there's, there's two layers of it. There's the conscious and the subconscious. So having the awareness is one thing. And I'll say it in terms of with my clients. So when I work with my clients, I give them the tools to understand what they can at the conscious level and equip them with the techniques to overcome those things when they come up at the conscious level. Because if you're conscious of it, if you're aware of it, you can then do something about it. And you don't need anybody else, right? You don't need me or you, right? Right. At the same time, there's the subconscious things of, you know, on the conscious level, you're aware that something is happening. You keep seeing the same pattern. You can dig in and you can get there. It's the things that you don't realize that you're doing because you feel a certain way, then you think a certain way, and then you behave a certain way, and you don't even realize you're doing it because you're just so used to doing it. It's, it's subconscious. When somebody points it out, you're like, no way, no way is that true, you know, they're exaggerating or whatever. Um, it happened to me with my kids. I, I got upset about something when they were really little, and, and I, I like yelled about something and they're like, when you, when you say, when you say that, you sound like grandma. And I was like, no, I don't. And then I was like, do I? I was like, oh my gosh, do I? So I had to like go take some time out for myself. And then I ended up coming back. And if you're doing something subconsciously, you need other people. So you don't always need a coach, but a coach helps because you can get there faster. However, in this example, and you can use something like this is, as long as you have somebody else to bring the awareness, you can dig through subconscious layers as well. So what I did was, okay, so here's the deal, guys. When mom sounds like grandma, we're gonna come up with something that tells me that without saying, you know, without us yelling at each other or whatever. It'll be a trigger. So if you agree on a certain phrase that somebody can bring it to your attention without igniting more emotional stuff, right? And escalating anything. It diffuses it and it brings the awareness and then you can do something about it. So my kids, they were so little that they were just like, okay, well, we're gonna be like, you're doing it again. And I said, okay. So it didn't take very long for me to shift out of that behavior. And what was bringing me into that behavior. When they did that one or two other times, it really did not take very long because I was committed to changing it and I needed to be aware that it was happening when I didn't notice it was happening. So those are the things, you know, some of the things that you can do is you've got to be able to bring up the conscious into the conscious, the subconscious, and the things that you can recognize from the conscious, you've got to take action on all of it.

Right. And I love how vulnerable you were to be able to do that because, you know, as parents, we think that leadership is being perfect all the time. Right. And yeah, I always joke to my kids, I'm like, I'm the perfect parent. And, you know, they're at the age where they just roll their eyes at me because they know I'm not. But I think what she tapped into was like, you have to have some vulnerability and being able to be like, I am not perfect. That's okay that I'm not perfect. And maybe I need to communicate with my child about like, when I say X, how does that make you feel?

Right.

Because— and that's exactly what— that's what your kids were doing, right? They were saying— I mean, they were young, so they were just like, you don't even have to ask them. They were just like, we got you. But for adults, they have to actually have that conversation, right? Of like, when I say X, how does that make you feel? And on both sides, right?

Yeah. You have to create that safe space for the child to be able to even open up to you too, right? So if you had an expectation that your kid has to be a certain way and they feel that they're walking eggshells and they have to appease you and keep you calm, right? The parentalism aspect, then they're not going to want to open up. So you've got to, you've got to explore and create that relationship with your child so that you can both be in a vulnerable space that is safe together.

And, and how would someone actually do that? How would somebody actually create that space? Because Parents are so busy, right? But they come from work, they see their college grad laid on the couch playing video games, and they're just like, oh my God, right? And, you know, it's hard to get them away from technology, but how do you create those safe spaces so that they— so that you can actually open up to each other?

Yeah, so depending on what you're— you have to take a look at what your relationship is currently, and then take a look at where can it improve, right? By being able to sit down and saying, you can— you, you gotta just open up and, and get vulnerable yourself and show that maybe I haven't been right all the time, and I'm open to hearing what you have to say, what you feel, and then before you get too far into the conversation, it's really helpful to set some of those little ground rules in there that, look, I want to have this conversation and I am aware that, you know, maybe I get too emotional on something, or, you know, uh, I get passionate about something and I sound a certain way. If you lay down the ground rules of, if I am getting there, come up with some trigger word or phrase that allows you both to be in that space. And then you can decide, do I need 5 minutes to explore my own emotions? But if you actually speak to how you feel and have a conversation around how each of you feels, okay, I'm feeling like this, or my brain is telling me this story, that's really helpful in when, when you're opening up to somebody, and especially when you know that it's something that's happening within you and it's really not about the other person. And maybe your, your head is telling you a certain story, right? Those thoughts that come in and they know they're not true, but some aspect of you feels like it's true. By saying, I feel a certain way, or my brain is telling me this story that You know, you don't, you don't really love me. You don't want anything to do with me, or whatever the case is. My brain is telling me that when you leave, you're not going to call, and I— that's going to— that makes me feel sad, right? Whatever the case is, it doesn't matter what that is. You can use that with everybody, you know, spouse to spouse, partner, you know, friends. Coworkers even. It, it alleviates the attack.

It—

so you're not in attack mode, and the other person doesn't feel like they're being attacked or just like talked to or demeaned or, or whatever the case. Because when we look at the perceptions and the emotions, it's a trigger. As soon as somebody is emotionally riled— I mean, this is actually how mass manipulation happens. An emotion is triggered first. It's not something that you think first. People think it's, we think it, then we feel it, and then we do something about it, but we actually feel it and then we think about it and we, we make this construct and then we, you know, act a certain way. So when it comes to kids, they're very volatile because they haven't learned, because they haven't been in that environment, right? So you're shifting the environment on both sides. So if we can agree to come to this line in the middle, and talk about it. It might take a little bit because you might get the eye roll and the, you know, silly parent-like stuff, like, what have you been watching on YouTube? Or like, who have you been listening to? Right? And it can take a little bit of time, so you've gotta, you know, be patient with yourself and your kid. Open the door and not try to force for too long. You know, if you can just Talk about one thing and then agree, like, hey, that was pretty good, we should do that again, and then see, see how they react.

I think the big aha moment that I just had in just listening to, to what you just said was that the parent has to be vulnerable first. The parent has to go to the, go to the college grad and say, I'm messing up, right? I'm doing something wrong. Here's how I feel, right? And it's not— and it's, and it's just, it's not an attack, right, on the college grad. It's, it's more of like, I'm being vulnerable and I'm sharing with you how I feel, right? And I think that, that, you know, just from what she said, it's just like you have to be the one to, to be vulnerable first. You can't ask them to be vulnerable right away, right? And, you know, and I know a lot of parents who have college grads or even kids in college, and kids do not feel safe to talk to them.

Right.

They don't feel that.

They don't feel safe. They're not going to be vulnerable.

Right. If they're— exactly. If they're not feeling safe, they're not going to be vulnerable.

Right.

And so the way you foster that, that safety is being vulnerable first.

Mm-hmm.

Right? Because you are taking all the risk. You are, you are doing the work. And then they see you as an example.

Yes.

And they see you as not perfect. And again, this phase of life is a development just for, you know, for the college grad and the parent, because this is a whole new world that they're both stepping into at the same time.

Yeah.

There's emotions about, you know, them leaving the nest or not leaving the nest, right? And what does that mean for me? And what does that, how does that impact me? And it's just, yeah, it's, it's really, you know, I, I just think there's a lot of truth to that of, of like how, um, how vulnerable we need to be.

Yeah, it's true. When, when we can step up and be in that vulnerable space. You're allowing your child to see a part of you that they might not have known to exist even. And when they see that part of you and they can be in that space, it also says it's okay for them to do the same. And if you can hold that space with your child it really blossoms into something so beautiful when they finally realize— they might be on guard a little bit and kind of maybe resist, or I don't want to talk about this right now. But if you even say, well, I'm checking in because this is how I feel and this is the story I'm telling myself, and I don't know if it's true or not, And then they'll tell you, well, that's not true because blah blah blah. And it might sound like that at first because they have to test those waters of, is this safe for me? Like, what is actually happening? If it's so new to them, they might not know. And back to that, if they don't feel safe, they're not going to be in growth mode, right? If we're in survival mode, we can't be in growth mode. So if we don't feel safe, guard down, we're not going to be able to be vulnerable. It's like a light switch. You You can't have it on and off at the same time. It's one or the other, which is why setting the ground rules for whether it's a phrase or a trigger word or something, because it can be like, okay, we're getting emotional. It might just be something silly like that. The sillier it is, the better, actually. You know, hey, you need 5 minutes. You need a timeout, mom, right? Whatever it is, just come up with something that it'll stop both of you in the tracks, right? Because it'll halt it. And it's maybe you do need 5 minutes to go and figure it out and come back and be like, whoo, that was good. You know, I needed that. I'm ready for the next part of this conversation.

Yeah. One of the things I just— one of the things I just want to highlight what you just said. If you're in survival mode, you can't be in growth mode. I think that's a billboard right there for me. That's another aha moment, right? But yes, I mean, the challenge is that, you know, I have this— I heard this phrase once. It's like family knows how to push your buttons because they installed them.

Yes, they have the detonator. They don't even need to get close enough to push them.

Right. Exactly. Exactly.

Yes.

I'm picturing Wile E. Coyote, like, seeing the detonator.

Right.

The ACME. But the ACME. Yeah, exactly. But, but yeah, it's, it's— but I think that's the hardest part is like you're being vulnerable as a parent and you know that they can press your buttons better than anyone. Right. Just because family knows each other's buttons. But how do you not get triggered? Because that's, that's, that's, that's the hard thing is because they know those buttons and they know they can just look at that button and it will go off. Right. And they can trigger you in any moment because they know all about you. You both know how to, how to, you know, push the detonator down.

Right?

You know how to do that. So how do you not get triggered in those instances? What, what needs, what needs to happen there? Because it's very easy to get triggered.

It is very easy to get triggered sometimes, and those instances are not always about not getting triggered. So if you can be in a space to recognize that you are being triggered. This is the most important part, is it's not avoiding being triggered, it's allowing yourself to get triggered in the moment, recognize it, and not react. So when you do get triggered, that's where those ground rules are, is like If I hear something that I'm not going to like, I'm going to say whatever, or even just be like, oh, I'm feeling triggered right now. And that's an indication to stop the conversation for a minute because you want to hold that space. If your child says, I feel triggered right now, it's about exploring it. Okay, well, what are you feeling? What am I feeling? Where is that coming from? It could easily become something like, I'm feeling triggered for now because now something in my childhood just got triggered with what you just said. So it has nothing to do with you. It's recognizing that these triggers have really not much to do with the actual situation that you're in right now, that most of the time it is so far away from you And you've held on to it for so long. Now you're going to allow yourself to release the trigger. And sometimes it takes a little bit of talking through, like, wow, I'm triggered by this because, like, I felt really upset and angry that you just said that, Evan Sanchez Sanchez Sanchez. What— where does that come from? Where is it sitting in your body? Oh, I feel it in my stomach. Oh, I felt like that when I was a kid, when I, when I was forced to do this, and my parents, like, made Now I have this realization, like, oh my God, I'm trying to force my kid, right?

And, and it's, and it's to, to the Dash Method, is healing the past. Yes, right? Because you have to heal that past and to point where that's coming from, right? And that's not easy to do. That's not easy to do because that could be subconscious. Yes, that could be some beat there. I know that in the, the things that I've had to work through with limiting beliefs, it goes back to me being 8 years old, right? Yeah, it was like not, not just like, you know, it was immediate. Like when I thought, where did that come from? I was like, I was 8 and this is what happened. And, and just like, oh wow, I didn't know I was still carrying that in my body.

Yeah.

And so to your point of like figuring out like where it's carrying in your body, right? Where did that come from? And what does it mean? I think that, you know, that's— those are all really important questions to ask yourself because we don't want to inflict trauma on our kids.

Yeah. But we always manage to do it somehow.

We manage to do it. It's not the same flavor as what we grew up with. It's different flavors, right? Yeah. But we don't. But, you know, I know a lot of parents who are just like, I am not doing what my mom did. I am not doing what my dad did. I am not doing what my grandparents did. I am, I'm reversing that right now. But then we come up with our own things that we didn't even know were there.

Yeah. And sometimes we do the complete opposite. And the thing is, is that opposite ends of the spectrum They're the same thing. They're just a different degree.

Explain that more.

So it's kind of like, it's, it's actually like a Hermetic law of the pendulum, right? Opposite ends of that spectrum. Like, um, let's take, let's take, uh, the hoarder, right? So we have this idea of what, what hoarding looks like and you got all this stuff and it's, it might seem like dirty and nasty or whatever. So let's say you have a parent that's a hoarder and then all of a sudden you become an OCD clean freak, you know, constant, like there can't be one speck of dust anywhere and like no dirt, like, oh, sanitize your hands all the time. This is two opposite ends of the spectrum, but they're the same thing at just a different degree, like hot water and cold water. Right? At what point does the hot water become hot and the cold water become cold in this spectrum? But they're still temperatures. It's just a different degree. So the same thing can be said for a lot of things of, you know, control versus, you know, some, some parents have, they let their kids do everything and they're wild. And then there's some parents that are, they're so controlled, their kids can't do anything without permission. You know, can I take my shoes off?

I can't do that, right?

Can't even take my shoes off.

Mom won't be mad if I don't take my shoes off, right?

Right. So like all those things, it's just coming back into that middle ground space of figuring out what's okay. And when you can do that with your kid, I mean, we were talking about like sometimes you get very triggered and, and all that stuff, Give yourself and your child the grace and give each other the grace because it is some work. It's not always easy when things come up and you're like, where the heck did that come from? It's, it's very, very insightful. And if you dig into it and you release it, you're actually healing the generation. And you're healing your body because, like we said, it— the body retains all this stuff. And you might be surprised to find that where you're holding these things, the things that come up and you're like, oh, well, I didn't realize that was there, you might find that things are in there that you've been having issues with either for a long time or for a period of time that once you release it, all sudden your health is getting better. Wow, imagine that! Because you've been holding it in that body, that trauma, that pain, that this, that, that, all the things. And when you start releasing these, they're no longer held in your body, so your body becomes healthier. And it— when you release limiting beliefs and epigenetic behaviors and beliefs you are releasing that for the whole ancestral lineage. So you might actually find— and my clients have been, they, when they see it happen, they come back and they're like, I didn't know what you were talking about at first, but I know what you're talking about, and this is wild. Because when you change what's in here within yourself, it ripple effects to all of those around you. So you start seeing that there's more cooperation, there's more love, there's more communication in all the people around you just because you started to shift.

I think that's beautiful because the energy you push out is the energy they receive, right?

Yes.

And trauma, whether it's little t or big T trauma, affects that vibration, affects that energy level. And I heard a phrase recently, it's like trauma accumulates like credit card debt. Yeah, right. It's a lot of interest and it's exponential. And you may not realize that you've been paying 10,000% interest for a long time until you realize that you haven't released this trauma from when you were 8 or 10 or 12 or 5 or whatever it is. Yeah, because, because you, you know, and but yeah, when you make a small shift in yourself, it's amazing the ripple effects that it has in your life and in the people around you and how they change, right? So if you're not feeling in alignment with yourself, if you're feeling the trauma, if you're, you know, in a job that you hate that's, you know, sucking the soul out of you, right, as, as so many people are, then it's really hard to have a good energy around you of one that moves people forward when you're feeling stuck.

Yeah. It might be a fun exercise to do the desire, what is it that you truly desire and your values with your child? Because you can also see if you do yours and they do theirs, you can see where things line up and where things line up is where you get along. And where things might be a little different is where you start seeing those differences rise up. But when you can understand, and this is what the world needs, is when we can understand where somebody is coming from, then we can understand what their thought process is, or have the conversations to understand their thought processes, and then be in acceptance of them for who they are. And they don't have to be exactly like you.

And you just struck something in me, is because I think that the world would be a better place if there was less judgment and less comparison.

Yeah, less get on my boat over here, right? Like, get on board with what I'm talking about or preaching about or whatever it is. If we just understood where somebody is coming from. I mean, there's so many different kinds of people, all different walks of life, all different kinds of experiences, all different kinds of traumas. And if we just understood or just got curious of, oh, you think that? I don't think that at all. Tell me more about where, where that comes from for you. Like, tell me how you arrived at that. Tell me what in your life led you to that thought or that belief? I'm curious. And it's being curious without the judgment and without having to prove that they're wrong and you're right. So it's not about conversion, you know, I want to convert your mind to my mind. No, I just want to get curious of where that came from in your life, how you got to that, because then If you've got two parties that are on board with that, I can tell you how I derived my thought. And when you have that mutual communication, acceptance of it, you don't have to be— you don't have to like it at all. If you just understand, then you could probably have philosophical— you get into a philosophical kind of conversation where I'm learning something from you, you're learning something from me. And regardless of what we believe at that point, if we hold our same beliefs, great. But it could incite, and you might surprise yourself where you might say, hmm, I think there's something to that. And maybe it sparks some learning curve, like learning process of your own to dig a little deeper somewhere. And maybe you get to change your mind. Maybe you don't. Regardless of what that is, somebody might open something up for you, for you to see something at a deeper level, for you to then explore. Like, is that something that I can, I can understand even more now?

I heard that in all relationships we are both teachers and students.

Yes.

Right. And the challenge with being a parent is that we always assume the teacher role, right? Because that's what we've done. Don't touch the hot stove. Don't accept candy from strangers. You know, like, do this, don't do that, right? We've been doing that our whole lives. And now we have to actually put on our student hat and be curious and saying, what can I learn from this? Even though I don't agree with what my son or daughter is doing right now, and I don't agree with them, you know, going into the military, or I don't agree with them, you know, dropping out of school, or I don't agree with them, you know, you know, joining the Peace Corps, whatever it is, right? But what can we learn from that as parents about ourselves? And I think that that's what you really hit on for me, is like, that's— it's, it's like Not assuming that you're just a teacher in this relationship.

Right. So sit down, ask your question and listen. Really listen. Don't, don't wait to speak again. Right. And sometimes, sometimes that listening process is like, you might be creepy crawling inside because like what they're saying is like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Right. Listen and just be like, I'm going to wait until you're finished. And then if you want to take it a step further, say, is there anything else? Because sometimes when you say, is there anything else, it allows that person to have that couple seconds to add instead of having to hear what's coming next from you, right? It gives them that space to say, yeah, that is. Or most of the time people say, actually, you know, this other thing too. And getting into that space of allowing somebody to finish their thought. So you might need to take notes if you, if you have something, they say something and you want to address it, take a quick note, but don't, don't distract yourself either, right? But listening is going to be key, and when we can do that, it's It's really beautiful what can happen. And if you can stop yourself, if you're getting like too creepy crawly, hold on one second, you know, wait one second because I'm getting— I don't really like what I'm hearing, so I just need to like calm down so I can hear the rest of what you're saying because I want to hear it. It's just making me creepy crawl, but I'm going to wait until you're done.

I'm triggered. I'm triggered.

I'm triggered. I'm triggered.

I'm at DEF CON 5. I gotta stop. Like, you know, and it's really hard to do that because, you know, even in adult conversations we don't do that because somebody says something and we just, yeah, oh yeah, I had that experience too, and you make it about yourself. What you're talking about is like not being in the box, not, not getting in, you know, not doing that, right? You're not getting into the box with them, but you're also You know, you're, you're just holding space for them and letting them talk and getting it out of their system, right? Because, you know, another phrase that I firmly believe is when people feel seen and heard, they grow, right? If they're in survival mode, they're not feeling seen and heard by any stretch of the imagination whatsoever. Right? They're not. But if you want somebody to grow, you make them feel seen, heard. And the way you do that, to your point, is by listening and not, and not talking and not interjecting and not giving them advice and not telling them what to do. Which again is kind of contrary to our teacher, you know, modality that we've been accustomed to for all this time. So it's a really big transition for the parents to like make that shift to just listening.

Absolutely. And I was actually admiring that with our conversation before we even got into that. It was like this fleeting thought that was like, this is really nice because we can— we're each having our time to talk and communicate, and this is a conversation. It's not, oh wait, wait, wait, yeah, you know, and oh yeah, you know, all this stuff. It's It's a back and forth, and just do that. Go back and forth. And if you feel that you need to like say something right away, sometimes just, just count 5 seconds and let them keep going because you're gonna have your chance. Create that space and create those little trigger words of hold on a minute, I need a moment. Sometimes you might have to like, you know, get the paper bag.

That's pregnant pause, right? Yes. It's very hard for us to do in any conversation because we always feel like we have to fill in space or something like that. And this is like contrary to that, you know, like you have to, you have to breathe into your paper bag and just like not talk.

Yeah, it was, it was so funny because I was actually practicing that to a, to an increased degree. So I was trying to make myself aware of, of that in everyday life, right? Because sometimes when we're, when we're busy and we're doing a bunch of things or we're around a lot of people, sometimes we tend to talk a little bit faster or we're trying to get something done. So we're a little bit more distracted than having this type of conversation where it's clear, it's focused, we've got the time set aside and all of that. When it's more hustle and bustle, there's more stuff going on. And so I was, you know, practicing doing that even more so than I've ever done. And it was hilarious because I had, I was working at an event and I had a person that I was working alongside of and she starts telling me STEM stuff and, and she's going into detail and I was just Waiting, you know, waiting for to hear everything and listening and, and doing all that. And, and then when she stopped talking, I was like counting, you know, trying to get to 5 seconds. And then so she then kept talking, and then when she stopped, I'd start, start my 5 seconds all over again. And then at one point she goes, are you gonna say anything? And I said would you like me to say something? Like, I, she's like, well, I'm talking to you. I'm looking for advice and I want you to say something. I said, okay, well, I was actually practicing like not giving advice. So, you know, not jumping in and just waiting to be asked because a lot of people come to me, they, I think they want me to say it. So I was actually just waiting for the asks, right? And she was like, are you going to say anything? Like, that's— yes, this is what I— I just came up to you and started talking to you. Yes, I want you to talk to me.

I love it because we don't know people's motivations, right?

Yeah.

Like when I'm talking to my spouse and she comes home from work, she's like talking about all this stuff, but I've learned that she just wants to be heard. She does not want to be helped, right? I heard this phrase, people want to be helped, heard, or hugged. Right? And hug can be a physical or it can be an emotional support. But, you know, I think that, you know, something parents can do is they can ask their college grad, do you want to be helped, heard, or hugged right now? And you can do that with anyone though, you know, because— and, and what I love what you were doing because she wasn't telling you what to do, but then she finally told I want advice, right? Right. I want you to tell me what to do, right? But you didn't assume that, and I love that, because you assumed that she just wanted to be heard. Mhm.

And it was very easy because I said, well, how about if I ask you a couple questions? Can I ask you a couple questions? And she was like, yeah, sure. And I just, I asked the right questions And she answered her own advice. It just— I asked the questions that tapped into what it was that she knew in here. And that's what we want to do with our kids, is get them into that space where they're empowered by understanding what they do have within them to make great decisions, to figure it out, instead of waiting for somebody to tell them what to do, because maybe that's what they've always felt like they experienced, whether they did or not, right? Because there's a lot of perceptions when you're growing up, and things are taken certain ways, and we think we hear one thing but we hear a different thing, or what is said is interpreted as something completely different. I mean, I witness it all the time. I just witnessed it the other day because You know, there was a parent saying, you know, I said that the car goes to this person, this kid instead of that kid, because this one, like, this person has to only drive a couple of miles and the other one has to drive 50 miles away. So that, I think the word used was like more important than, you know, than the other thing, because they can easily get a ride and they have a ride being offered. So it was— kid didn't hear that. It was, oh, this kid's thing is more important than mine, right? That's— they— we hear different things when we're children. When a parent is saying one thing based on our interpretation, the emotional charge that's there, and then the reactionary thought and behavior that happens after. So when we can recognize that as parents too and sit in that space of, I understand that there are going to be things that are going to be taken out of context, out of perception. If we can check that, that's going to be key, is saying, no, that's not what I meant. That is maybe not what I even said. I understand where your interpretation came from, and whatever happens after that, right? Whatever you feel is necessary for discussion.

And that happens on both sides, right?

Oh yeah.

We interpreted our college grad's behavior of being lazy, right? Sitting on the sofa and playing video games. That's the way our interpretation goes. Those, right? But what's a more generous interpretation of that, right?

They don't know what to do.

Exactly. So I mean, I think, I think a lot of people go to the lowest form of interpretation. Oh, they're lazy, they just don't have any motivation, they're, they're— something's wrong with them, right? As opposed to assuming the best case. Like, I've gotten to this point just randomly in my life, I'll tell you, like, when somebody doesn't me back, I assume busyness, not malice, right? I assume that they're busy. I don't think that it's an affront on Evan Sanchez Sanchez, right? So I choose a more generous interpretation of that. And, and it's easy— it took me a long time to do that, right? It's easier said than done. But I think that when we're interpreting things, like, we can ask like, what is the best interpretation of what's going on here? And that, that makes all the difference because our interpretations can be wrong just as much as theirs.

Yeah. And even that laziness, lack of motivation, bored, don't know what to do— where does that come from? They don't know what their purpose is. They're not motivated because they don't feel like they have a purpose. Why? Because they don't know what they want and they don't know they're not tapped into the alignment. So understanding, digging in a little bit, when we uncover that and start the spark, they get motivated, they have a focus, they have clarity. They— and this is for adults and children because, you know, I dealing with all of this with throughout my whole life and clients, right? Because we learn from our own experiences and we can evolve and then help people that are doing the same thing that we used to and when you can tap into that, it's like all of a sudden when you are taking aligned action, it's exciting. It's not boring, it's exciting. You want to— you're going to see more energy, you're gonna be in a better mood. When you don't know what to do, you're just like, okay, dopamine hits, let's go, right?

Yeah. When again, when you're in survival mode, you're not going to grow. So if, if they're feeling that survival mode, they're getting dopamine hits just to make them feel better. Yeah, and, and that's a big part of it. And I think that, you know, I think a lot of the things that you teach are so important, you know, about the alignment, about the design, about the, the healing of the past, because that, that is what people really need in this world. What you're doing and the work that you're doing with your clients is really what they need because It would— I kind of wish everyone would go through your program just because it would solve so much in the world, right? It would solve like the temper tantrums, the, the acting out. If people knew where their traumas were coming from, right, and actually had the space or understood their interpretations and what's going on with them, or actually take the time to write out what they would ideally want in their lives and what values they have I think that, and it sounds, and, you know, from your past, it sounds like you've done this a few times, you know, with, you know, being a chemist and getting mercury poisoning, like, like a lot of things in your past, you've had to do this work as well.

Absolutely. And like I said, it's not linear. So that, that nonlinear approach is, you know, you strip off a few layers, you release some stuff, you heal a little bit. You know, you dive in, and when you keep uncovering, it gets clearer and clearer and clearer. So just keep going, and you got to start somewhere to move that needle.

Yeah, I think that's, that's so important, because just taking one small step is actually the biggest step.

It is. It can be scary as heck too sometimes, right?

It can be like I'm jumping off a cliff. Like, I'm being vulnerable.

And you don't realize the cliff is 2 inches high.

Right. Right. It's not the Bugs Bunny and Road Runner cliff where they're falling for 5 minutes. But yeah, it's, you know, you think the cliff is that big, but it's really like, you know, but showing— but I mean, I just love what she said about like being vulnerable with your kids and showing that you're not you're not perfect and you don't have all the answers. And you don't— and yeah, and they've grown up with your advice. They, they probably know what your advice is. You probably don't really need to tell them because, because, you know, but I know so many kids who, who can't tell their parents, I will drop out of college, or I want to pursue this career, or I want to pursue that career. And yeah, just making them feel safe is so, so important. And the way you do that is by being vulnerable. And that's what you taught me here today, is like, that's the best thing that a parent can do is start being vulnerable to create that safety. Yes. And so that's, that's really the aha moment, one, one of the many aha moments I've had over our time together, is just thinking about that is like Vulnerability is a superpower in a way.

It is. It really, really is. When you can just be in that space and allow other people to feel their feelings without, you know, interrogating them or condemning them, or if somebody's crying, so many times I hear, but stop crying or don't cry. Even adult to adult, it's like, cry. When somebody is like, oh, I'm, I'm teary, I'm, I feel like I'm gonna cry. I'm like, great. I'm celebrating that. Get it out. Release it. It's a release. It's part of the process of releasing. So go ahead, cry.

You're safe. Right. You're safe to cry. It's okay to cry. It's not the '80s anymore. It's, it's also like when people say calm down. Oh, yeah.

Calm down.

Calm down.

Yeah. To somebody who's flipping out, just calm down.

When has that ever worked? I would like to see one moment in history where people are like, oh, okay, yeah, that's what I should do. That never works.

No, it does not work. If anything, I think people say it just to rile people up more. So if you actually mean it, like, calm down, it's I tell people to like, okay, well, there's different things with different situations. Me personally, if I'm around people that I know, I'll just be like, okay, let's take a breath, right? Let's take, let's, let's take a breath here. If somebody's getting all worked up or do you need a hug? Like, do you want a hug? Sometimes I say, do you need a hug? And then if they say no, sometimes then ask ask, do you want a hug? And they say yes. They said no the first time, yes the second time. And then if it's no, it's like, okay, what would you like? What do you need, right? What can I do? Is there anything I can do? Should I walk away, right? And you don't have to throw all those things out at once, but it's, it's more of a helping that person discover, what do I need? So sometimes it's asking the questions, and even if they get like upset or they sound upset, like, no, you know, because I've said like, hey, do you want a hug, right? And they're like, no, I don't want one. And I'm like, okay, I'll give you some space. I just say, I'll give you some space, and I, I mosey on over and I don't take it personally. And then, you know, sometimes people have come up, I'm so sorry that I snapped at you like that. I'm like, no, I totally understand, you needed that space. I was just asking because I don't know how I can help. So clearly you just needed the space, and it's okay. I honor that. I respect that. And I didn't take it personally. And then I offered a chance, you know, but just holding that understanding that what's yours is yours, what's theirs is theirs, and just being okay with whatever that looks like, even if they're snippy snappy at you. It's okay. Like, you do the same thing. I do it too sometimes.

It's human nature. It's human nature to do that, right? It's human nature to have, you know, not perfect moments. Hell yeah. And going back and putting your tail between your legs and like, yeah, I'm so sorry I did that, or I didn't mean that. I just, you know, I'm having a bad day, or I didn't get enough sleep, or, you know, or, you know, but You know, it's really about— I like what you said, is like not taking it personally, which is one of the hardest things. And we get better at that as we age. But for a 25-year-old, everything feels personal and everything feels like an attack, right? Because I remember, at least that's the way I felt at, you know, 22, 25. Like I felt like the end of the world. Like, you know, I felt like if I had a disagreement with somebody, that that was just the end of the relationship, right? And so we have to remember how we felt at that age and how everything felt big and heavy that we can just brush off now in a later age, right? You know, just like, that's a you problem, that's not a me problem, right?

But even like some with— sorry to interrupt.

No, no, go ahead, go ahead.

Even if, like, look at how you feel on a day-to-day basis with, like, job pressures or this pressure or that pressure. Now, as adults, our hormones have leveled off, so they've got all those hormones, like, going coursing through and all this energy and all these things. And whether it's going into college, just coming out of college, trying to figure out what to do there's all this overwhelming energy behind like making all these decisions or expectations or perceived expectations even, or just like worrying about, did I make the right decision? Did I do something that was actually in alignment with who I am versus what mom and dad wanted me to do? There's just so much and it's so compounded these days with all the energies that's happening in the world. So if we can just stay in the space of, I recognize that there's a lot going on everywhere and, you know, it's not to put yourself down on the ground and get walked all over for it. However, exploring what does it actually look like to be compassionate and with boundaries, right?

And, and also like You know, to let them have the freedom to make the mistake.

Yes.

Right. To let them not be perfect because school— yeah, that's a tough one because school taught us to be perfect. Right. And now we have to kind of like— now they have like, you know, they don't have like, you know, 10 colleges to choose from. They may have graduated, but they have 10,000 options and that feels overwhelming. And they can't, you know, and they're so worried about making that wrong decision and making that mistake. And am I going to regret it? Am I going to disappoint my parent?

Yeah.

By making this decision. And sometimes the hardest thing as parents is we have to let them make a mistake.

That could be one of the best things that you let them do, because how do we learn and grow and do things that becomes in alignment with is you try something, I don't really like that. You, you try it a different way, I like that. Or I don't like any of it entirely, I'm going, I'm going to run over this way instead, right? It's even just little things like if you own a business, trying out a piece of of technology, it can be excruciatingly painful. It might be a big mistake. It might be the best thing that you ever do and streamlines everything. So you don't know until you try it for you. And what worked in somebody else's business wonderfully could wreak a lot of havoc in yours. So it's kind of along that line of what's right for you isn't always right for everyone else. So it's not the same with You should do this and you should do that. And why do you want to, you know, you could be bad at art. Maybe you, your paintings don't come out too great. It might look like, you know, throw up on a canvas, which, hey, somebody might want to buy that out there. However, when you have this beautiful thing that has all of the elements and all this stuff and it's selling for $100,000. Is, you know, if you said to that person, you shouldn't do that, you'll never make money doing that, and they actually believed it, they would never try it or never like push for it. You never know what can happen. So just remember that. You never know.

Exactly, exactly. And, and they, they could regret it or be proud of it, and either way it's okay. Yeah, right. Because like your son went into the military, you know, and you thought he was going to regret it and you thought that you were going to regret it, right?

But initial reaction.

Yeah, initial reaction. Yeah, it was selfish.

It was.

Yeah, but, but that's okay to— but you recognize that about yourself, how selfish it was, and you asked the right questions. And you got curious about how he came to this decision. And I think that's the key, is that, you know, as we said before, you have to get curious. You have to, you have to just not be like, you know, oh, being an artist is a terrible idea. Being a YouTuber is a terrible idea. Like, all of that has to— you have to, you know, regulate yourself, as he said, to do the pregnant pause, take count to 5. Count to 11, count to 20, whatever it takes.

And when he said that to— when we had the conversation, it was what I explained of opening up and understanding. And my mind did get changed. I was like, okay, this is your decision. And you know, there's a part of me that doesn't really love it, but I'm going to support you because it's your decision. This is your life. And as he went through and, and he talked to me about these experiences and, and doing the things and he loves this, that, and the other thing, and what he— where he was going off to and where he's experiencing. I, I have people that come up to me and be like, oh, that must be so scary for you. And, and I'm like, actually, no, I have no fear. He's going to be fine. He loves what he's doing. And that's— that was my role in just making sure he was choosing something that he really wanted to do. That was— that became my concern. And when I when I listened to him and had that conversation and understood where he was coming from, it changed how I looked at the whole situation. And I could now be proud mom instead of scared, you know, worried and all this stuff. When he got deployed, people are like, oh my God, you must be so scared right now. I'm like, no, I'm fine. He's gonna be fine. Fine. So whatever he does, it— this is his life, this is his decision, this is his choice. So he's going to be fine.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. I mean, he's aligned and he's thriving, and that's what we all want as parents. Yes, that's exactly what we want, right? We don't want our kids to be sitting on the rocking chair when they're 90 and we're long gone, right? And being like, I really regret at doing this because my parents forced me into it.

Yeah, my parents stunk.

Yeah, get off my lawn. You know, if it weren't for you menacing kids. I was just gonna say that. Great minds think alike. Well, this, this was so much fun, Nicole. Thank you so much. And so how can people contact you? What's the best way if they, if they want to reach out to you and learn more about you?

Oh, you could reach out to me. I'm— if you just search the Cool Magic, M-A-J-I-K, on any of the platforms, you'll find me because it's a unique last name. And yes, it's my last name, so you'll find me. Otherwise, go to magicllc.com, M-A-J-I-K-L-L-C.com, and you can reach out to me there. There's a form if you want to send me an email, same thing, magic@magicllc.com, or the form on my website Awesome.

And, and Majik is M-A-J-I-K. J-A-K. Not so—

yeah, even when you go to type it, people like switch their gears.

So, well, thank you so much, Nicole, for, for spending this time with me. I really appreciate it. And you've, you've done a great service, and, and for the— for all of the, the people listening, and I thank you so much for that.

Thank you, Evan, for having me. And you are doing an incredible job with what you're doing too. We do a lot of the same things, different approach, but all the same result.

But we're in alignment. We're in alignment.

Yes, we are.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you so much. Bye.

Okay, bye-bye.

And scene. That was fun.

And wipe the scene. And scene.

Right. I need one of those clappers. Yeah, right. Yeah, that's not in the budget right now, but, you know, I'll, I'll get No, I'm kidding. Well, this is fun. This was fun. Thank you so much.

I really appreciate you.

Yeah. Yeah.

Now get out there in the sun and some vitamin D today, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I have to, you know, we're overlooking the pool, so it's really nice. You can sit out on the deck and just like be at the pool without, without being at the pool.

That's nice too.

Yeah. Yeah. So thank you so much, Nicole.

You too, Evan. I'm going to connect you with us. Make sure at some point, once you connect with me on LinkedIn, I I'll send a message on LinkedIn. Did you?

Okay. I, I— yeah, I accepted it, so.

All right, perfect.

Okay, thanks for— thanks for everything.

You too.

Bye-bye.