How to promote a course -- evergreen (non-live) vs a live one...

So you were saying you're finishing up your shorter course. So, yeah, tell us more. How, how short is it?

So it's expanded, that's why it's taking me longer. So I wanted to create a 5-day challenge, and I'm, I'm pretty sure because it's so practice-based that I wanted to take 5 weeks. So that's like my short, short course.

Yeah, these days that's like my long course.

I know, but I just feel compelled to since it's so training-based.

Yes.

Um, it just doesn't feel in alignment to make it a 5-day challenge. 5-day challenge later, but I'm just— I want to create the shorter 5-week, uh, course. Yes. Um, so it'll probably take me another 6 weeks or so. So this, this, this quarter, that's pretty much my main focus outside of, um, uh, just staying consistent with YouTube videos. Like, so I'm doing 3 times a week, uh, long form.

Amazing. Wow.

So, um, so just trying to build that muscle. But for sure, I see, like, you know, next year I want to kind of map out where my attention should go. Um, and so because I created— I'm creating the courses independently, somewhat independently of, you know, research, um, now, like we've talked about, it's like getting in front of the right people who will resonate with the messaging.

Totally.

Um, that's my focus for, for January. Uh, but I think that's, that's where, like, you know, after I finish the 5-week course, maybe what you would recommend, um, as far as getting in front of the people, or like last time you helped me, we talked about building my list, uh, because that's not something I've put any attention towards yet.

Yeah, totally. Okay. While you're building the course, can you, I just wonder about like kind of beta testing it.

I don't know if I have some people that have agreed to help me test it.

Okay, cool. And so are they waiting for you to finish before they test it or are they, are you like delivering things right now? Because the reason I ask is because when it comes to authentic business strategy or just good business strategy, I always just for everybody watching this, like the, whenever we're working on our own, we should be wary about how we're using our time. And it's like, I always want to see our work be in touch with other human beings as much as possible. And so even while, even while I'm building something, well, of course the way I teach courses is like I've, I've already sold it. So like every module is being tested immediately in front of students every single week. But, but what you're doing right now, you are working towards a bigger launch of it. And, and, but still, I think if you're able to get any feedback up to, up to then, that feedback is gonna help you get the language and the, Yeah, sort of like what are the scintillating things that you need to be talking about as you do your copywriting for the launch and your content for the outreach. So yeah. So are you able to get some feedback now?

I probably could do that. Yeah.

Okay.

Start like one module at a time. Start getting—

Yeah. Yeah. I mean the ones you already finished, where are you at now? What's—

Oh, it's only about 30% done.

Okay. Yeah. But that's still enough to, start getting feedback. And, um, yeah, like the questions I would want to know from your feedback givers is what is, what is most interesting about each one? And what, um, what questions is it answering for you? You know, like what, what questions that are personally meaningful to you is it answering for you? Because you might have a set of questions you're trying to answer as a creator, as a teacher, but the students are like, I'm seeing this as being relevant to me and I wanna know what that is. I particularly, I wanna know if there's any, any, any difference between the two. So, okay. Yeah. And then in terms of, you know, once you finish, finish the course and you're like doing out, I mean, the thing is you already have an audience. I mean, you, you know, it's not as obviously we can all, yeah.

Just to add a data point that's kind of important. I would really like to create a strong foundation for like the green aspect of my business.

Yes.

Before doing like live courses or group programs.

Okay.

Yeah. And so where was I going with that?

So, and by evergreen, you mean like you want products available for sale on your website, people can buy it anytime.

Yeah. And no live component. I'm even thinking of taking out the Q&A for now.

Okay. Yeah.

Maybe offering like one-on-one kind of support for a little bit.

Yes. But— Okay. Usually when it's, when there's an evergreen product, the difference between a live launch and an evergreen selling is that the evergreen selling has to happen all the time. That's the difference. It's like with a live course launch, it's very clear, hey, this thing starts, the events start at this date, everybody, there's a deadline to join. With evergreen, the issue is there's no deadline. And so the question is, how do you, when do you tell people? I mean, if you had tons of traffic, like if you had like, for example, great search engine optimization and you were getting tons of traffic, oh my gosh, it makes sense to, to on the page where people are landing, you're gonna promote the evergreen thing. So you're always getting interest in the thing. But like when you don't have a lot of people visiting a particular page, then of course it's generating traffic to that page. Enough traffic where you can be optimizing the page to say, well, gosh, let me test out what if I had this headline instead of that headline? What if, What if the, what if it was this image instead of that image? What if it was framed? What if it was much shorter versus longer? Like you, thankfully you're using Semplero, so you were able to split test. I split test on Semplero easily. You've done that on Semplero?

Maybe once after your last prodding.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, with evergreen, you definitely have to, you definitely should split test and like there's basically two efforts happening with an evergreen. Product, you are, you are, you have to ask yourself, what is my str— what is the strategy? What is the most reasonable strategy to keep bringing people to this page? One. And two, this, these happen to happen at the same time, but basically you have to answer these two questions. What, how am I getting people to this page? And second, what am I testing? What's my testing strategy to say, okay, for every, you know, 200 visitors to this page, I'm testing this interest, this particular element, shorter versus longer, different header image, different doorway, meaning a different issue is being focused on for the product, et cetera. So, so I think maybe that's your homework actually, is to, is to brainstorm those two questions, traffic sources and testing strategy. And then we can discuss in the next Q&A calls about, about that. But, but let me just pause and see if that makes sense. And what do you think about that?

I think, like I've mentioned, I think I want to try to practice and like get better at YouTube. Yeah. And so I think that will be my primary traffic source. And so far there's been, which surprises me, but there have been a couple of purchasers of my longer program that have never left a comment. I assume they're subscribed, but it just boggles my mind. But in any case, that's cool.

So, but how, but they're, you know, they're from YouTube.

Yes. I have it in an intake form.

Wow. Yeah. Very cool. That's great.

I know.

Okay. How, how much is your longer course?

$270 at the moment. Yeah.

That's not that, I mean, that's, that's not a high-priced course, but it's not like a, you know, $10 thing. So that's, that's great.

Okay, now to like figure out lessons from that or just how to really capitalize on that.

My question for you is, did they all happen in a particular period or were they just random times?

Random. And it's only two for the longer—

two, two. Okay, but they were totally—

yeah, together.

I see. Because the way that, uh, YouTubers do it, and you probably notice when you watch people's videos who are selling something, They put them, put their own product in like a sponsor would, like, so it's often in the middle of the video.

Yeah, I'm doing it at the very end. So at the end of very, at the end of every video, I have about like just like a short paragraph that I talk about. Okay, cool. The course, maybe even the particular shorter course within the longer, larger framework that specifically is relevant to the topic. Video. So you're already doing that for every video, but at the very end, because just personally I don't like it when—

I know, me, me neither. Yeah, I, I get you. And, um, usually like what's more pleasant is if in the, the, like, like the middle interruption is more for like a, a free thing, you know, then, then that's better. But yeah, selling thing in the middle is, um, is not as pleasant. And so I think you're— I think, I mean, well, the people who are willing to watch it all is the most best fit anyway.

You know, I would like really like, I'm not necessarily a lead magnet, but I, I would like either even shorter, lower cost and/or free offers that I get could place in the middle.

Okay, fine. Well, yeah, if you haven't tried it, you should try it.

Yeah, I think that might be related to some of the doorways that weren't part of the 5 or 6 that I gave you.

Okay.

Mostly around visioning, around relationships.

Yes, yes.

And money or career.

Yeah, totally. And I know you occasionally make a video that's specifically about the offer.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I think you should probably keep doing that. I imagine, you know, every— I don't know, at least every 10 videos, if not every, you know, 5 to 7 videos. Wow.

Okay.

Yeah, no, really at least every 10 videos. I mean, like I said, especially for an evergreen thing, they need to hear about it again and again and again and again and again so that it keeps coming back. And the way that you can talk about it isn't like, hey, if you haven't signed up, you know, sign up. You can talk simultaneously to people who have signed up. You can say, hey, just a reminder, My visioning course, you know, is, uh, dives deeper into this kind of stuff. And, um, if you've already signed up, you know, check out module 3 that's related to the video I just talked about. Like, however you can tie in your product and speaking as if the person is ready to sign up or has already signed up and they thank you for the reminder. I'm gonna go back to module 3 now.

Cool. That'd be helpful because I don't see a lot of completion I feel like people started.

There you go. So, so, well, welcome to being a course creator. Welcome to the world of the wild world of, of trying to get people to complete a process. Yeah. Yeah, actually that's part of the work is, yeah, we gotta like be outreaching to people, but at the same time we also need to be really curious and working on the completion, you know, the completion percentage and, and like wondering and reaching out to people and saying, hey, I'm really curious what stopped you in the course.

I do try to reach out, but I don't hear back.

Yeah, of course. Yeah. I, I understand. And, um, the other thing to do is to offer people a, a call. With you.

Yeah, I've tried that too.

Okay. Wow, that's great. Okay. Well then, you know what?

Yes, but then I never hear back.

Okay. I think you just need more numbers at this point. Like, you know, you just need more. Okay. So in terms of building the email list, you mentioned having a lead magnet. You mentioned putting it in the middle of your videos, or you mentioned having a, I think the most generous lead magnet of course is a free mini course. Because that way they're expecting to actually do something rather than just, oh, I'll sign up and I'll wait for information in the future.

It's free. It's okay to do like an email course. I've never gone through one, but instead of onboarding them onto Semplero and then taking up like a, a seat, like it's okay. Like would you first free?

It's interesting you said taking up a seat. I mean, there's, it's unlimited. I mean, that's true.

Yeah. I just, yeah. Is it okay?

But free, but I, I think Well, let's, let's, let's think about, let's think this through. It's a more legitimate lead magnet when you say you can get a free account.

Cool.

In my course platform. Nice. And take this free course. Mm-hmm. Free account.

Yeah.

Um, it's more legit than get onto my email list so I can sell to you. Um, so I don't know. I, I feel like, yeah, I mean, again, I think you should test everything you're interested in. I think email courses are well known and they're, they're, they're, they're proven to work. And, and it's like, you're right, they don't have to sign up for anything. I mean, it's, they don't have to log in or anything. They're just getting it in an email. So I think you should try that.

Okay.

But I think there should be another experiment with the, with the free course. Yeah.

I'd actually love to get them on Semplero. What, one thing that I'm thinking about that I don't think I've mentioned to you yet on a call is actually com— like, uh, only selling my longer process as the longer process now, because I, I had mentioned that, um, that 5-course limit at my tier in Simplero, and I don't— it's like almost— it's more than double, I think, to get to the next tier.

Oh yeah. Wow.

I'm just not there in my business.

No, no, no. I get it. No, it's, it's a good limitation for you to get more focused on which product you actually wanna make live.

You can only buy the longer process because now I'll have the 5-week shorter one that's cheaper.

Right.

And then freebies. And then, yeah, it sounds— I'd love to get everybody on Simplero because it's so easy once they get familiar with the system.

And they're gonna be a better lead than anything else. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. It's really interesting. A lot of the people, like, not a lot. So the people that have bought my course, they weren't on my mailing list either. It's not like, so they watched my videos and then just bought the course. They didn't sign up for my mailing list, which I haven't really—

That's interesting data, right? Like that happens to me too, which is, which is why people go mailing list is everything you got, you know, it's like you gotta get every, whatever you can do to get their email and then you sell to them. I'm like, well, you viewership is like, attention is what we actually care about. And so you're, you're, you're, you're experiencing that very dynamic. Yeah. Cool. That's great. So in other words, I, yeah, like, like you said, like what's more important, what's getting them on your list is less important than keeping their attention. And so like if you were to pour your energies into one of these two strategies, I'd say, oh, it's much more important to, to get new attention and to keep the attention to the people you already have, which you're focused on YouTube. So you, you know, with YouTube how to get more attention and how to keep attention. Yeah.

I mean, I, I feel like I'm still learning how to—

of course we are.

Yeah. But, um, but just looking at, because YouTube gives you those analytics every week and it's just amazing. This last one, it was like a, um, chart bar graph. Uh, and just, it's so clear from when I started posting 3 times a week Memorial Day. Week. Like it just keeps going. It just keeps growing. Like it's kind of neat.

Wow. That's so cool. Yeah. With YouTube, one, one last, well, two last things I'll say real quick before we finish the segment is, and you know this, but the importance of titles and thumbnails, you're spending time optimizing those.

I, I could do a better job, but yes.

Well, okay. If you know, if you already have things on your to-do list, I think it's, here's my encouragement to spend even 15 minutes more on the title and thumbnail for each video makes a big difference.

My titles are a little bit like more intellectualized versus like what people are really—

Okay. Yeah. Like, it's like, yeah, there's, there's that, there's that spectrum between click, complete clickbait title.

Sure.

Versus librarian accuracy. This is exactly what the video is about, which I have had. I've made the mistake many, many times, too, too many times to count with librarian accuracy. And I'm now moving towards clickbait. All my videos are gonna be, you know, the best sex ever. That's just gonna be all my titles. No, I'm kidding. The world is ending. Click here to stop the world ending. No. So that, that's an example. Those are, but there are some channels who really do like the most mind-blowing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? Like, and like the key is to try to find a middle way. To not be librarian accurate, but not be ridiculous with your clickbait. But really, it's, you probably need to err more on the side of clickbait, not as a disingenuousness, but to make the title more exciting or more curiosity driven.

Because I think my particular way I'm going, it's sort of a numbers game as well, right? So I do need to build my audience Yeah. Yeah. No breaks.

I, you do. And, and the thing is, what I've noticed, and maybe those of you watching this can confirm or not, like I've noticed that of course as a human being, I fall for clickbait too. I also click on the video that says the world's ending, you know, click here to stop the world from ending kind of thing. Or like the number one secret you must never, you know, be without or whatever. Like, like you have to watch this video, like this. But as long as the video delivers on good content, I'm like, I don't, I forgot that I clicked on it because of clickbait. Now I'm not saying we should go into, but it should be, like I said, the middle way. Like most of us are probably too honest with what the video accurate, trying to be accurate, but it's really more of a, like we're afraid to gather interest, to be more interesting. And so anyway, that's, that's, yeah. And then, and then the other thing I was gonna say with YouTube, uh, that's, you know, besides titles, thumbnails, be more scintillating, um, is the first minute of the video. And you know that too from, from classic YouTube. And it's true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Trying to with the scenario or question these days.

Good. And to deliver, and like, that's this deliver on the title in the first minute. Not, not obviously you can't communicate everything in the first minute, but to make them feel like, cool, I'm actually, yeah, I think this video is gonna deliver.

Cool. All right. Thank you.

Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for, thanks for asking and, uh, being here.