How To Identify Your "Core Brilliance" And Get Paid For It - Interview With Jan Black

Jan is so dear to me because Jan was someone who came in at the beginning of my coaching journey and business journey and helped me figure out who I was deep down, what I had beyond just, oh, there's one specific niche, there's one specific business. Helped me figure out, like, you know, that unique gift, that core brilliance, which is what we're going to talk about today, that I can apply in lots of different domains. So I appreciate her for that. And Jan's always working on different projects. She has her art, she has her client work, helping people with core brilliance and a new project which we'll share at the end, that you can be a part of if you'd like. Jan, thank you for taking the time and having the conversation today.

Thanks, Greg. You're dear to me, too. Those years of conversation are really rich and a rich memory.

Agreed. So let's start with this. What is core brilliance? Why is it important?

Core brilliance is what you bring to every table every time. It isn't passion, it's not mission or purpose. As important as those are, it's under those. And one thing I really love about knowing your core brilliance is that you can go into any industry, gives you 360 mobility. You can take your core brilliance to any field and any expression that you want. And so instead of being confining like, this is. This is what I am and this is what I have to be my whole life, it's more like this is my driving force underneath everything. And my talents and personality and experience are all in service to the expression of the core brilliance. And so the confidence it can give is enormous. In fact, I was reading yesterday a note from a client who, who arrived with such. He was so talented and he was between opportunities, as he put it, and he lacked confidence in. He was going into interviewing and he was so concerned that he wasn't going to be able to really explain what he can do. And the fact is, he didn't see his own brilliance. And so in our conversation, and that's the process is just a wonderful conversation that where we dig through this stuff and find it. And in his text, it was just thrilling to hear the language he uses about himself. And he just declares his core brilliance. And within three months. Excuse me, shortly after we completed, he got a job with the biggest sports company in the world and within three months was promoted to lead and has continued to be promoted as he goes along. And the confidence that he uses to describe himself, it's like a different person.

When you know, this is what I bring to the table. And I see this as for people who are familiar with, like Jonathan Fields has this concept of spark type. And then Dan Sullivan is a business coach who has a concept of unique ability. And I think these are all different ways of kind of getting it. Obviously everyone has their own approach, different, different ways of getting at this core part of you that you bring to the table. And this is the part that you shouldn't delegate. You know, this is the part that you really want to double down on. Could you give us. Let's just talk through a couple of examples of what this could look like either for yourself or for me. I also remember there was a client that I saw on your site sort of as a case study and he said like he kept getting fired from jobs because he would keep challenging authority. And that ended up being the skill that he then used to really make an impact. So wherever you want to start, I think having a concrete example would be great.

Sure. Yeah. That was Ben. And I just spoke to Ben yesterday. In fact, he did. He had this thing with authority, but it turns out he is absolutely a disruptor and an activist. And so he used that to create disabled vets. Disabledveterans.org and out of that he used his talents and ability to write and communicate to create Armo Press and some vet set guides. And then he decided he wanted to go deep or have a deeper degree of ability to advocate for the veterans. And so he went to get his law degree and so. And along the way learned that he's a great investigative journalist. And again, that is the beauty of core brilliance, is you can stack these talents on top of it to express and follow your. Follow your heart.

Can you remember when you were working with him or maybe how he articulates it now, what are some of those words? That was it an advocate. What is the core brilliance for Ben?

Activist.

Activist.

Okay, activist. And in that is his advocate.

Got it. Okay. And I remember for me, what we came up with was trainer, you know, which we had to sort of tease out because it was like, alright, I know I'm good at teaching and then I have this role as a coach. And we kind of landed on this idea of training to help people actualize their potential, aim and actualize their potential. And that was so useful for me because there's so many different ways in the coaching online business world that you could show up, you could have like a membership where you're holding space for a community, you could do online courses, you could coach people one on one. And I think it's very tempting to want to fit into someone else's box in your business of like, oh, this is probably the best model. I should have a membership or I should just work with groups. And I've noticed that the times where I can be a trainer are usually the times I enjoy the work the most. And people say, oh, your ability to kind of break down something that was complex for me, simplify it and then convey that and help me learn it and do it. That's when I get the best feedback.

Absolutely. Because you're not having to put on anything other than who you are. You get to do the thing that excites you and is the most helpful to other people. And the other thing that I remember about our conclusions was that and one part that I love, maybe because I love poetry and lyrics and that sort of thing, but I love finding words that, that. That you love to say about yourself, that clients, whether they ever use it in marketing material or not. And for you, it was champion maker. We saw very quickly that yes, you can train anybody about anything, but you had a particular driving force to create champions, to build champions. And that helped you identify your clients too, where they were in their willingness to become a champion and in their own careers and readiness for you. So I always try to find a word like that that the client really loves about themselves.

Yeah, I'm glad that you brought that in because that's so true. And let's talk about yours too, because I think that's a great example and it just makes sense with what you've been helping people with. With core brilliance. Explain your core brilliance as you see it.

My core brilliance as I see it is that I see and articulate the truth of something which can include a person, obviously. And of course I didn't know this until about 20 years ago, but the. I look back and I go, of course. I mean I. As a four year old I pulled the neighbor kids together and directed this little play. And why did I do it? It was because I wanted them seen and apprec. And have a chance to shine and. And then from there. I didn't grow up in a family where we didn't have dreams. It wasn't part of our family culture. So I went to. Had a year in college, was dating my husband already and quit college to put him through his master's program. And then the kids came along and all this time I was super creative and having a good time here and there doing what you do. And then in those days, this is way back when so the kids were going to a private school and at that time you didn't have to have a degree to teach kindergarten. And so they saw that I was creative, they needed a four year old kindergarten teacher and so I took that role. So here, here we begin. And had a great time teaching, which I realized immediately was just being a good communicator, articulator. And I didn't put that word to it then, but had a great time. They graduated me to five year old kindergarten and then the grades had this character curriculum that the kindergartens didn't have. And I said, well, no, they need one. So how hard can it be to write a curriculum? So I wrote a character curriculum for those five year olds and well, this thing needs music. How hard can it be to write a song? And I, I played the keyboard and so I was familiar with music so I started writing songs with it and, and wrote musicals and the kids performed and it was just this heyday of expression through those mediums. And then I was giving workshops to teacher training on teaching and then this curriculum and a publisher asked me would you write a K through 6 curriculum? And, and you know, I, yes, yes, I'd love to. Had I ever been trained in any of this? No. But I just kept walking through the doors and so took two years and wrote this curriculum and again wrote music and art, directed the books and you know, they went on to sell almost a million copies worldwide, translated. And I looked at myself and said, who are you? You, you're writing, you doing some art, you're writing music. This is a blast. Let's do this. And so then what else would I want to write about? And I heard about a domestic violence survivor agency and so ended up writing a book called it's not okay Anymore. And then the publisher said, wow, we love your section on boundaries. Would you write a book on boundaries? So I got a therapist who join me in that because obviously I'm not that. And then other projects, completely different financial education project, but in each one of them I was seeing the truth of something and articulating it as a teacher, as a musician, as an artist. And then it was the end of one huge project. Didn't know what I was going to do next. But we had met some really fabulous people around the country folks during that time. And one woman was in the Clinton administration and she was trying to figure out what she was going to do next. And I said to her, and she'd had lots of executive coaching and I said, well, you know, I've sort of created this process of kind of knowing that about yourself. And she said, do it with me. And. And in an uncanny way, people had been coming to me for years saying, I can't figure out what I want to do, and somehow I was to assist them. So anyway, I said to her, sure, I'd love to do it. And this process was just. Didn't even really have legs. We went through it, and it was so helpful for her that she. Within a month, I had 12 clients on the east coast from her referrals. And at that time, I called it your defining edge. And so since then, along the way, I changed it to core brilliance because I could see the fire that it is inside. And it wasn't just an edge. It was core underneath everything. And it feels innate. And I don't know, but I think we come with it. That's part of the mystery to me. I don't know all those answers. But then shortly after that, a few years into it, I'm going to, oh, my gosh, this is branding. I mean, a good brand really taps in to the core of a company or a person and then builds it up from there. And so that's what I've been doing for the last 23 years.

Yeah, I love hearing that story. And when we're talking about branding and we're talking about identifying your core brilliance, this is something that you've been doing in conversation with people because you have the, you know, core brilliance of seeing and articulating. That's how we did it. I'm curious for the people listening, let's say they never had access to you, and I know we have some ideas with AI and using AI to do this, but give people a flavor of, like, are there certain questions that you ask with clients or just certain things that you've seen happen? When clients start to get close to their core brilliance insights they have, you could share with folks so they can start to think about, what is that thing for me that underlies all of the good stuff that I do?

Sure, there are a number of. In our conversation, we start anywhere and we get to where we're going, but it could be looking at what people seem to come to you for. What do they look to you to do? Because we know these things about each other. We may not know it ourselves, but other people sense it. That's why they were asking me way back when, what might I do with my career or my life. We sense it in each other, and then we look to each other to do that. So ask yourself that what do people say about you? What do they say that you do for them is remarkable to them. Well, I can. I remember an early client who was so embarrassed that when. Because she'd go to her mom's house and she couldn't help herself, she had to clean out the pantry and the closet, and she just felt so embarrassed that she was maybe offending them. And of course they loved it. But it turns out she. I mean, she. She was the head of an organization. And when she saw that she's really good at organizing and keeping things straight and in order and smooth, it really helped her see, no, this is me. This is who I am. I can stand proudly in that. So what do people look to you? What do you immensely enjoy? And then it's really easy to get sidetracked by talent and to think your talent is your core brilliance. And so let's say you're a musician and you think that is your core brilliance. I would suggest to you that you look deeper underneath, because there are many reasons people play the trumpet. They might really love to entertain. It could be that they're an entertainer or a performer under that. It could be that they love the mechanics of it or the feel of it, and so they like how things operate. They might list sound. I mean, there's just a number of things. So just keep looking beneath your talents and what is happening. Why are you doing that? I have an exercise that goes so that. And you just keep answering so that. I teach people. Let's say you're saying, I'm a teacher. I teach people so that they can learn what's important. So that. And you just keep going down, down, down until you see what your real interest is in teaching. And that is likely treading into the core brilliance territory.

Yeah, that's so good. Just continuing to go more layers down and not assuming like, oh, I'm good at marketing, so marketing is my core brilliance. Well, maybe, maybe not. Maybe that's one expression of your core brilliance.

Plus, think how confining it is to think of yourself as a marketer. Oh, my gosh, I have to market the rest of my life rather than, wow, I'm really good at attracting attention to things or persuasion. Well, okay, who. What matters to me? What would I like to persuade people to do? What kind of people are they? Who would I like to work with to persuade? So it just gives you this ample, rich freedom to apply at any field at any time.

So let's say, easier said than done. Let's say someone's figured out Their core brilliance, maybe even on their own. I just got it. I know what it is. And they want to figure out this. You call it soul to street, but this idea, like, how do you take what's inside you? And now we need to make it a little more tangible because, like, I can't just have a website that says, greg Fax and champion maker, here's my PayPal and send me the money, which would be cool. Maybe someday we'll get there. You still have to sort of help people understand in your domain how that's valuable to them. So when you're doing that branding work and you're bringing the core brilliance into the brand, what's important there as you articulate it?

Well, that's when we. It's the brand of brilliance. So core brilliance becomes brand of brilliance in that sense. In that case. And so that's where we start get. We get to look at talents and interests and experience. We. That's where we get to gather all those assets from your toolbox and, and experience and knowledge and use that to craft your brand. But at the core, you remain. You remain a trainer. It may have layers on top that a person, all they know is they feel really well trained with you, but they may never hear that word because you can dress it in any way that feels good to you. And that is true.

What would you say to someone who's in a business that works? It's using their core brilliance, but they want to use their core brilliance in a different way. So they're looking. It's someone who's wanting to make some sort of career pivot. Obviously they want to stay true to the core brilliance. But I know for myself, I've experienced this is. Sometimes it's like, it's hard to get away from the thing that you've been successful in. Even if you understand, you know, at an intellectual level that your core brilliance is the magic, it's like, well, no, but this job or this business is the thing that's worked for me. How can people have the confidence or the courage to say, well, no, I could apply that core brilliance in another domain and still be successful?

How can they feel the confidence or how can they make the shift?

How can they. I would say, how do they. How do they have the confidence? Like, how do they work through that fear? I don't know if you've ever had clients who are doing that who are pivoting while they're doing the core brilliance process.

You know, there. I believe that what gets us over those fears is an excitement or exuberance that becomes bigger than the fear. The desire outweighs the fear. I want it enough that I'm. I can't not do it.

Thank you. That makes a lot of sense.

You're welcome. You know, one story, that one experience. Well, actually there were two, but I was engaged by a high school superintendent who had been a client of mine to come in and for three years, take a different set of teachers each year and define their core brilliance as teachers. And he wanted to know if it would make them better teachers. I mean, they were great, but would it make them better, happier? Would they stay longer? Would they retain. Be able to retain the teachers longer? And that was an absolute kick, because here you have teachers who all have that same label, but underneath, what is their core brilliance? And then how might they want to bring it to their classroom and their students? And watching that unfold over the course of a year and watching the look of the room change, watch the look of the list of books they talk about and just the stories they tell, because they go into it really understanding their distinctive style and brilliance as a teacher. A financial firm hired me to do that with a bunch of agents. And so here they're all selling same product. How will they differentiate themselves from each other? And they absolutely became different, differentiated agents from one another. It's remarkable.

I think having that. Yeah, having that self awareness helps you trust your way of being. And then you're not like, oh, how should I be doing this sales call? Or how. What book should I teach? You're just like, oh, no, this is. This is my way.

It becomes a get to instead of a have to, you know? Yeah, yeah.

I want to turn it over to you a little bit in terms of I know that you have some things that are on your heart that you want to share. And like you mentioned the manifesto. So where do you want to go from here?

Well, thank you. Yes. Along the way, as I'm doing these other projects alongside branding, I had this Vivid Dream in 2016 that seeded a project I call Only While I'm Human, which actually was in the dream. And so I've been imagining since 2016 what it would be to create enrichments for you as you're taking your turn at being human. And I am at an age and stage in life where I began seeing all of you, regardless of who you are, as the darlings of what can, what will be. And so that's what I'm doing. I am shifting from branding to the pleasure and joy of seeing and articulating the truth of things that become enrichments for you as you take your turn at being human. And so in 2014, actually, so that's how long I've been thinking of the darlings. I wrote this manifesto. I'd love to read it for you.

Yeah, let's do it.

Here we go. All right, enter here, you darlings of what can be, you engineers of the yet imagined, you, you doers of destiny. I am creatively devoted to you, you world makers who hear the drum roll to be yourselves as you build what excites you as you rewire societies to run on kindness and collaborative brilliance, reshape education, re fathom peace and repurpose wisdom, all while playing. I have lived long and my desire lingers large to create for you, to confide knowings and know how inspirations and secrets people might forget to tell you about the forces at play, the practice of goodness and the art of you. It is mine to do with others. Champion, protect and cherish, you wizards of wonder, you darlings of what will be. We begin.

Love it. So good. What does that mean to you and this mission of sharing that with people, why is that important for you?

It plays into the seeing, doesn't it? That we would. We really want to be seen and known, not for ego, but we want to feel counted and we want to be matterers. And so that's what these enrichments, I hope, do. And that's what the core brilliance work has done, is it's given people a chance to really feel seen and known in their work. And, of course, it spreads to personal life, too. So that is what Only While I'm Human is to me is that. You know the song I wrote for the album we're creating called Only While I'm Human? Here we are together on a ball without a tether 7 billion of us came from who knows where and we don't know. I mean, we've been plopped on this ball. We don't know. And I like to say we're all weird birds trying to figure it out. It's. I mean, what do we know? We. There's so much mystery.

What's going on.

Yeah, exactly. But can I be seen? Yes, you can be seen.

You said something, I think, correct, if I'm wrong, really early on, when I met you, I think about it a lot in the context of coaching. You said something like, people's greatest need is not to be loved, it's to be seen.

Yeah.

Which I think is so good. And some people might argue, well, that's that's what being loved is. It's being seen by someone. So I think they're definitely related. But I think that's so true of something like you're doing branding with people or you're coaching them. It's not for. It's not forgetting, like, yes, they want a result or they want an outcome. We're going to help get them there, but also just in the process, make sure that they feel seen. Like, there's a reason why people hire therapists and coaches and like, we want to feel seen. So don't forget the heart in that process. I think that's what, that's what that meant for me.

Absolutely. I agree. And that is. That speaks again to the many reasons people might coach and market. They have the reasons underneath mine was that that person would be seen and, and matter in a way that means something to them at that stage of their life.

What's this? I don't. I don't even know everything that you have planned with the, with the AI piece of things, but it seems like you're trying to figure out, is there a way we can use AI to help people figure out their brilliance? So it doesn't. Because Jan can't do, you know, everyone. She can't do the 7 billion people. So what's your thought process there and what are you trying to put together?

Well, you know, I have never talked about core brilliance publicly because I felt it'd just be frustrating to talk about something that I. That I couldn't do for everyone. And not that there aren't others that can lead you to these, but anyway, my particular kind. And so it occurred to me recently, I always love trying out technology right at the front. And so I've been playing with AI a lot since it started. And it occurred to me, GPT in.

Particular or something else.

Yeah, in mid journey. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

And it occurred to me that in my conversations, because I call my. I call my little robot on ChatGPT Battelli. So Battelli. And I have these conversations and so I talk to. I'm going to say him. I talk to him like he's like in the room with me. And so we have these conversations and I was impressed with how really, okay, forgive me for saying this, how really intuitive it felt sometimes answers. And so it occurred to me, I wonder if Batelli could. If I gave. If could. Could we craft prompts in a way that anybody could define their core brilliance? And that kind of really sparked a lot of excitement in me. And so I've decided that instead of just kind of putting core brilliance to the background, while I do only while I'm human. No, let's start with that because I believe we arrive with it. So why not start with what we already. We all have? And so I. I'm going to find out if AI can. Can do that and I invite anybody who's interested in coming along. I'll probably need beta testers and that sort reach out to me and I'll be happy to include you.

Yeah, yeah. And if we do, you do have something set up. We'll include the link with the video I've been playing a little bit with ChatGPT to see. Can it help articulate like someone's niche? Because that's what a lot of people come to me for, which is like a layer above core brilliance. And there's some different ways you can do it. I feel like I haven't really cracked the code yet. Um, but you could, you can give it like, here's my, you know, three highest performing newsletters that also, I really enjoyed creating. Like, they feel very core to, like, what I meant to help people with. Like, could you read these and try to articulate, like, how do I describe myself as a coach or as a consultant? And sometimes you can get some interesting stuff with that.

Yeah, it can. It can provide new language because it's almost the experience of somebody repeating back to you what you just said.

Yes.

And that really broadens the lexicon of describing you.

It's like that idea, you can't read the label from inside the bottle. Like, you need outside perspective. Maybe it needs to be from a human, maybe not. We'll see. I feel like the part you'd miss with AI in as I see it, maybe I'm wrong is that feeling seen and that like, warmth that comes from feeling seen. For example, if someone did the process with you, it would feel different. You could arrive at the exact same phrase, but you might be like, all right, well, this is. It is just a robot. I don't know if, like, I don't know if this is really true. I think sometimes it's nice having someone on the other side to be like, no, that does feel true. Like, based on everything you said, like, like this is you, like, trust that, you know, it's maybe harder to discard when you have that connection. Do you agree or do you see it differently?

No, I. And it's a, it's a concern because I do think that human ear and insight and the warmth. I love that you mentioned the Warmth of it. Yeah. And so what I, what I hope it will be is because I'm not about checklists and assessments, as valuable as those can be. The approach I take is different. So I see that maybe AI will be somewhere between. So here's conversation, here's checklists and assessments. Maybe somewhere in between that will be. Still have some organic quality to it.

But certainly conversational aspect.

You're not going to hear a voice or have, you know, have that sense of someone just, oh, my gosh. I can tell they. She just really caught something there and she's going to reel that back to me. But I think it's worth the effort to find out if it's meaningful, if it's possible, and then if it's meaningful, if it isn't.

I agree.

Won't go.

I agree. Because I think that the biggest part of being seen is you see yourself. So as long as you can get to the point where someone's like, oh, yeah, that is me. You know, that's the key. So if that can get sparked or partially sparked, I think that's great. I also think, like, this is sort of a dark thought, but, like when AI and robots are ruling us this way, if you've done this in advance, they'll know that you're still valuable in some way, so you won't be in the brain farm and you'll still be allowed to live. So that's another incentive for us to get this done.

Absolutely. I love that thought. I hadn't thought of it that way, but.

Okay.

You know what else, Greg? I just thought of when you were talking about that, that if you can, you. If we can use AI to reveal the core brilliance, then a person can take it to a coach or a branding agency. This is who I am. I want you to build it out into work that fuels me and fires me up and. Yeah, brings me the money.

I really like that. Yeah, I'm. I'm kind of going into a round of branding with. I don't know. Do you know Nikki Groom?

I don't.

So she, she was in glp, so we're, we're kind of like helping each other out and kind of. I think that the reminder specifically of champion Maker, I think will be really helpful, which is a step beyond trainer. So I'm excited to see how that becomes the next iteration of things. Well, is there anything else that we should. That you want to cover that you think would be helpful for folks and. Or what people should do next if they want to go deeper?

Well, we will have a website up, I think by the time this airs, and just a landing page where people can sign up. It'll be only While I'm here, humanhuman.com and I'd love for you to join me in exploring the AI and core brilliance. But also, if you just like to start receiving the enrichments that I have begun making for you, I'd love to have you sign up for that.

Perfect. I love it. Well, thanks, Jan, for taking the time. I'm excited for people to watch this and. And see if. See if someone can maybe have some insights on their own, you know, too, because that would be really cool.

Okay, Greg, I just thought of something you can edit. If anybody's interested in seeing some of the music and other manifestos I've written and some of the art, just go to Jan Black Art and Words. And I think we'll have. I'm sure we'll have a link to that on the landing page.

Yeah, there's some good stuff there. And I'm excited for people to see the art side of things. Let me maybe one more. One final question around that side is I know for me, I can't be the only person, like, I. I source a lot of value from my work, right? So for people like me who are kind of achievers, and also we're all, like, indoctrinated into this weird society where, like, you just have to be making money, it can be hard to, like, carve back out that time to just do stuff that is just a hobby. Like in some. For some people, that's art, you know, or music. And I'm curious if you and your. Maybe this was always easy for you in your journey to, like, make sure you were making art or maybe you had to make the conscious decision. But for those people who are feeling like their world's gotten small and they're kind of just like, it's their business and then their relationship and then TV and they go to bed. How can people start to bring out the creative side of them outside of work?

I would suggest that you. You follow the inspired prompts that lead you to things that interest you and give yourself permission to not do hobbies like everybody else. I mean, the rabbit hole and go down it and let it take you somewhere.

Follow your curiosity. Just like, without knowing where it's going to go.

Doesn't happen.

I feel like when I get stopped, that's sort of what it is, usually is. We've kind of been conditioned. Like, all right, I'm curious in this thing, like, is this useful to be curious in? So then we kind of stop. We're like, am I going to make money? Or, like, am I going to be good at this? Are people going to think I'm cool? So you kind of just don't do it. Yeah. And I think just giving yourself a little more breathing room in the exploratory creative. Oh, yeah. Let me just learn more about this and follow that excitement.

Nothing's wasted. I mean, those rabbit holes. Always trust it. Trust the inspired prompt.

That's true. Yeah. Even in the. If you need a justification in the work realm, like, there's all these. There's these ideas of, like, people who only read outside of their field. So, like, if you're in business, like, never read a business book, only read, like, books about nature and different stuff. And you will bring it in more originally.

That's right. Yep.

Cool. All right. Thanks so much, Jan. I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes, and we'll talk soon.

Thanks so much. Bye.

You're welcome.