275. Real Stories About What's Possible | Interview with Jelena

Welcome to the Influency podcast. I'm Hadar and today we are going to listen to a real life story about English success. You are going to listen to an interview with one of my students who is going to tell you what is possible now that English is no longer an obstacle. Let's listen.

Jelena is a part of the team, Team Shemesh and has a lot of titles because she's responsible for a lot of things. First of all, she's responsible for our training department which is in charge of the all the customer experience and our courses or all our programs. You're also our customer success manager which that you are responsible to make students get through the courses and the training and they get to the finish line. Utmost success. Also our head coach. So you help train our coaches and you're also coach and you deliver a bunch of our pronunciation coaching sessions. So a lot of things that you're responsible for and that you're doing successfully.

So wow, you made me sound very important but also responsible for so many things. You know, I'm thinking you. Oh, do I really do all of that? Yeah. So yes. Hi everybody. I'm so, so happy to be here. My name is Jelena, I come from Serbia and I am all of those titles in Team Shemesh. The best team in the world. Yeah. But as Hadar said, it was not always like that. And I would like to go back to a couple of years ago when I actually started teaching English because before all of these fancy titles I was an English teacher and I always loved languages. But a couple of years ago, I think five years ago, something like that, I started working as an English, I was teaching children online and I actually really enjoyed it. It was a very nice, nice work and I especially enjoyed helping my students and seeing them get something right and then the smile on their faces and you know how happy and excited students are when they learn something new. I love that. And I was happy. My students were happy. I was getting nice comments from them, from their parents as well. So that was important for me.

What I wanted to share with you today, first of all, Jelena, she's starting to tell you about her journey as a student because it's so funny how a lot of times you start doing something for yourself, you think you're doing it for self improvement and a lot of times the direction that you're going towards is completely different than what you had thought would happen for you. And this is why I'm always curious to hearing my students stories and this is why we have this live series, My Student Stories, and the stories of people from all around the world who do one thing and then that opens a bunch of doors and leads them into other areas that they did not even think was possible for them before that, or they didn't think about it as an option. And Jelena is such a good example of that. So, Jelena, if you can continue from where you left off, you were starting to get compliments from parents and from students.

Exactly. I was happy with the work that I was doing, but I wasn't confident to say that I'm an English teacher. Yeah. So I was struggling with that identity of being a non native speaker who teaches English. So why do I teach English? I mean, English is not my language. Right. So who am I? You know, imposter syndrome, all of that. So who am I to teach English? Why do I do this? And I was enjoying it, I was good at it. But my students were happy. But still, when people would ask me, oh, what do you do? I wasn't able to say, especially if those people were native speakers, because I thought, wait, but they can clearly hear that I'm not a native speaker. And I might even make some grammar mistakes, some vocabulary mistake. I still do when I speak, but now I don't care. But back then, you know, I knew that people can hear that and I thought, wait, no, but I have to sound like a native speaker to be able to teach English. I mean, it was, it was a big burden to carry, to be honest.

Really, like the non native English teacher imposter syndrome. Like there's a specific case for it where this is like almost a universal experience. We've been working with a lot of English teachers who are incredible teachers. What happens? And just not have English as their first language. And there are a lot of insecurities or a lot of things that we need to overcome to be able to kind of like get into the, the same mindset as teachers who are native speakers who don't even need to be bothered with it.

Exactly, exactly. But all of that actually brought me to you. And, and now I'm going to share the famous water story. So for all people who have never heard it before. So I was in class with a seven year old student and he asked me, hey, teacher, why do you say the word water funny? And I thought, wait, what Funny? And he said, yeah, yeah, teacher, I say water and you say water.

Yeah.

And I mean, she was really good at picking up on sounds. You know, he was very young back then. And I thought, wait, What? I didn't know how to answer. I didn't know because, I mean, I was mostly teaching grammar, vocabulary, you know, following the textbook, but I wasn't really teaching pronunciation. Nobody expected me to teach pronunciation. And I didn't know how. I mean, I was learning some theory about pronunciation before, but I didn't really know how to teach pronunciation. I didn't. And then I was really embarrassed in that moment. I didn't know why I say water. Had no idea. And then I googled you know, how to pronounce water, and that brought me to you. And then I found a video where you explained everything about the flap T. Wait, what? So we don't even say tea, but like a flap T, Like a D sound in the word water. Wow. And I was. I was shocked, but I was so intrigued. And then I binge watched your whole channel in a weekend.

I remember it to watch in one weekend.

My partner didn't see me that weekend. I was just. Yeah, watching your content the whole time. And then I remember at the end I found a very old video of you saying, hey, I'm a non native speaker of English and like your whole story. And then I thought, wait, what? She's a non native speaker of English and she's so confident. She has her own YouTube channel. She's teaching pronunciation, and I love the way she teaches. And then that's the moment where I felt, wait, I have to. I have to get to know this woman better. Does she have any programs? Does she have any courses? I need to learn from her.

This is exactly mission oriented. I remember the first interaction that we had. Yes.

I messaged you on Instagram and I asked, do you have any programs? And you said, yeah, actually I do. And it was, it was Accent makeover back then. So a program that doesn't exist anymore, but it was very near and dear to my heart, and it still is. And then I actually joined as a student. And I didn't even tell you that I was an English teacher. I just joined as a student and I was practicing my pronunciation, going through all the modules, and I soaked every piece of information you had. I was, I was obsessed with accent makeover. Yeah, I mean, I really was. I was practicing like two, three hours every night. I mean, that's not what I recommend to people now. No, definitely not. But I was so intrigued, motivated, inspired, and it became like a hobby.

No, it's not a bad example. I think that when you fall in love with it, like this is what we are trying to do in our programs. To understand that it shouldn't be tedious, boring, annoying work. It should be fun and joyful. We want you to be in the situation where you can't wait to start practicing because you feel the results, but then you're also having fun, which is pretty much what you've experienced. So, you know, you're. You're the ideal student.

Well, yeah, that's exactly what happened to me. But of course, you can achieve great results with practicing way less than that. You really can. But I was just, you know, I was very passionate. And then I. I did accent makeover many times. I think like four times in a row or something like that. I kept joining, watching over the modules so many times. I know them by heart. I still do.

Yeah.

And then eventually I started helping other students because new students were joining, and I knew the program so well inside out, and I started helping other students. And then I guess you noticed it, right? Maybe you can tell that part of the story. Yeah.

So I think this is something that we often see because our students keep coming back to, like, they do more and more rounds back then. Accent makeover, now, new sound. And what I've noticed, and this is, like, has become more in the essence of our community. And this has started with you and the time that you were there, like that. Students who have succeeded and have started kind of like overcoming their own obstacles. They started, you know, giving a hand and helping new students that were just starting out. And you were very active there. Like, you were basically the first ambassador that we've had. Now we have many of them, but, like, the first ambassador where you were starting to give pronunciation feedback on people's videos. And I think at that point, I was like, okay, you are doing an amazing job. You're so specific. And this is where we had mentors giving feedback on pronunciation for their exercises. And I was like, jelena, would you like to join our team of mentors? And back then, it was just to give pronunciation feedback. What was it like for you to shift, even though it was like you didn't know where it's going, but what was it like for you to shift from this perspective of a student to someone who is guiding others on their pronunciation?

It was a bit challenging at first, so I'm very confident now. But back then, I mean, it was. It was a slow change in mindset. And in the beginning, I still felt that imposter syndrome, especially now with teaching pronunciation. So, I mean, not exactly. I wasn't doing classes or anything. I was just helping a bit, giving some feedback. And it was. It was difficult. Again, who am I? To give pronunciation feedback? I'm not Khadar or, you know, who am I? But I kept doing it because I was enjoying it. And I mean, and each time I got a comment like, oh, thank you so much. That makes so much sense. I love those comments. I really did. And then I kept doing it, despite that, that fear and that discomfort that I felt. Yeah. And then, I mean, eventually you. You were happy with my work, I guess, and then you decided to train me to actually become a pronunciation coach. And then we did a very extensive training, and I mean, you are very, very nice and smiley to our students. But while you were training me, you.

Were a bit strict. No, I'm joking now. With our coaches. But anyway, like, I think that this has been an incredible experience for me too, because I was starting to train coaches. This was, you know, it's not easy to be like, because I like things done in a very certain way and like, the type of feedback that we give. And for me personally, it was just like, it's. How do. How do I make sure that this is the vibe and people understand how to do it? And you were like, I think you did such an incredible job with understanding the sentiment, understanding what our mission is, prioritizing, which I think is really important for a pronunciation coach. Like, being able to, like, on the spot, know what's more important, what's less important, what's the level of confidence? What do I need to comment on? Like, is this really something that I need to pick on? How do I explain it in a way that makes most sense for that particular student? So, like, it needs to be very agile and adaptive, and you definitely have those skills. And I think that this is also why our students love working with you so much. Tell us a little bit more about the type of work that you do inside the company.

So then eventually I started pronunciation one on one. So I started giving one on one sessions, and I enjoyed that very, very much. But then after a while, you asked me, you said, hey, Jelena, you know, I want to open a new program. And back then we only had ads and makeover, and you said, no, I want to start a new program, and I need somebody to help me run that program. And do you want to join my team full time and to actually help me run the program? And I thought, wait, what again? Run the program? Really? But I mean, of course I said yes. I mean, even when I was teaching one on one, I would never actually think about joining your team full time. And you know, helping with running programs and projects and things like that. But I said yes, I had no idea what I was doing, but I was trying to do my best. And your guidance was very, very important to me back then. And then eventually my role grew within the company. So I was like a program coordinator, let's say back then. But then eventually I also started working as a customer success manager. So that is one of the things I do now. So I basically help all of our students to make sure that they're on the right track, to make sure that they know how to use our programs the best way, how to get the best results, helping them to get to the finish line. So I'm there to, to provide a lot of support and guidance to all of our students within all of our programs. So right now we have new sound, we have beyond and, and also I work in, in training as well. So I help training other coaches and coordinating all the coaches we have. We have a fantastic team of coaches. The team grew up and, and I'm there to kind of like connect everybody and, and onboard new coaches. And so I, I do a lot of things now, but I have a lot more confidence now too.

So how, especially for students who are starting out and they have this big dream, whether it's, you know, to teach English or to find a better job or to relocate or to apply for university and you know, you mentioned that you struggled with the imposter syndrome and feeling like I know that I need to have certain skill skills for this position. I don't feel like I'm capable of doing it or enough. Of course you did it anyway, which is exactly like the message that we want to send everyone now that like you gotta just do it as if you feel like you do have that experience and confidence and then that will come. But a lot of people don't take that step. They're waiting for the confidence to arrive. They're waiting for, you know, feeling like they're capable for the all the qualifications to be in place or the experience. And I think that is what keeps them stuck. So can you speak a little bit about that idea of shifting from, you know, feeling not good enough to doing it anyway to building that confidence?

Well, for me, I mean, I'm not sure if I have an amazing piece of advice, but I'm going to try to share a bit about how it happened for me. So just being near you helped a lot because it was your message about, you know, how it's okay to be a non native English teacher and that's good. And how we non native English teachers can do a lot. And you were so passionate about it, and, you know, eventually it rubbed off on me. And I mean, there were many, many steps. So I think step one was seeing that I can help people, so seeing that people react positively, seeing that my pronunciation maybe doesn't have to be, you know, perfect, whatever that is, or I don't have to sound like a native, but I can still help people in quite a lot. And then actually, eventually we had a program called English Teachers Academy, so I was working with you there as well. And we had a lot of teachers, native and non native, and I was working with them, and I realized, wait, I can help native teachers as well. And I did. So we had, you know, many sessions, discussions. I saw that I can help native teachers as well and non native, that it didn't matter. So that was like a big click for me there that, you know, I can help people and I can even help native speakers. And then I kind of stopped making that difference, like, oh, these are native speakers and these are not. It doesn't matter. We're all English speakers and we use English to communicate. And I think that was really, really helpful for me. And I mean, now we have, you know, native people and native speakers, non native speakers on our team, and it doesn't matter. We don't feel it, in a way. Yeah. And when it comes to, I guess, overcoming all those fears, what was very important for me to become a pronunciation coach and to become a good pronunciation coach was, I think, doing it for myself, being a student first. And I think that that was something that was so valuable because I experienced it. I did it myself, the same as you did. Right. And I mean, that's how you created all of these programs. Because I think when you experience like that yourself, then it's very, very helpful and you can help other people later on. I'm not saying that this is the only way to become a good pronunciation coach. Of course not. If, you know, if you're not in my position, you can still become an amazing pronunciation coach. And we have people on our team who never had to, you know, learn English pronunciation for themselves, but still, that was my story, and it was really helpful. And in terms of how I was doing all of those things while being afraid of, I think it was step by step. And I was always telling myself, you know, what if you fail, it's okay. You will learn something from it and you will try again. So I was afraid, of course. I mean, I was embarrassed to say that I'm an English teacher, but I always thought, okay, but this is something you want to do, so try it. And if you fail, I mean, you've tried, you've done something, and something gets better than nothing. And it was, you know, step by step, little by little, and just thinking, even if you fail, it's okay. You'll learn something and you'll try it again or you'll try something else, but you'll have an experience behind you. So that is what I was thinking.

I love that so much, because there isn't a recipe for how to overcome this confidence. It's really so individual and depends on your circumstances. But I think it gives us a good direction as to, like, this idea of step by step and this idea of surrounding yourself in an environment that helps you thrive and succeed and not puts you down, which is a lot of times the case for some of our students. We hear, you know, they tell us their boss is always teasing them or commenting on their English or so that it's really hard to thrive, or colleagues or, you know, customers sometimes. And I think this is a big part of understanding what are the circumstances that you need to create for yourself to be able to overcome this and overcome this obstacle. I have a question for you about the work that we do inside of New Sound. So you, as a customer success manager, you come across a lot of challenges that our students face. Now, for those of you who don't know, New Sound is our signature transformative program. It's holistic. It deals with a lot of elements related to fluency. It's not just about English. The core program has to do with the performance of English, which is pronunciation and prosody, intonation, rhythm, stress. But we teach it as a tool to gain freedom and fluency. But we also add components such as mindset, habit building, high performance, strategy, voice, and so much more. And we see that combining all these elements together, we see that our students really see results. So our students deal with a lot of things, not just the actual practice. So they deal with, you know, the struggles of going through the pronunciation training, but at the same time, like, there are a lot of other things that come up for our students that sometimes kind of, like, overwhelms them, and then it gets them to hesitate or, like, not know how to continue. And a lot of times, like, they know the path. They just need someone to hold their hand. And this is where you come in. So tell me a little bit about what are the biggest obstacles that you see our student face and how you help them with that?

Well, I would say that number one is still fear. So, I mean, of course, before joining our programs, before New Sound, I talk to a lot of people, and people say, well, I think that I'm not good enough for New Sound. So that's. I think, number one, that, you know, people feel that they're not even good enough, that their English is not good enough to join an English program. So that's, I think, number one. Oh, but I need to practice first, and then maybe I. I'll join your program when my English is better. So that is number one, what I would say. And then some people do end up joining. But that fear doesn't just disappear magically when you join. You have to actually put in the work. So I still see people like, oh, I really want to practice speaking, but I'm so afraid to join your conversation groups. And I mean, we have the environment, right? So we have created a lot of opportunities in New Sound. If you join New Sound, you'll see that there are many, many opportunities and options to practice speaking and connect with other people. But then I see students still saying, wait, but I. I can't. You know, what if. What if other people are better than me? What if their English is better than mine? What if people don't understand me? So there are so, so many fears there.

And. And just. I want to say something about that. Exactly. Just like, to bounce off. It's so true. We see that a lot, and it says so much about that, like, all the things that this person has to deal with. Because if they're afraid of speaking in the most safe place in truly a greenhouse, if that is challenging, I cannot imagine what it would feel like to speak in a more demanding or intimidating environment when they speak with authority or, you know, with. With customers or with someone who does not have, like, the capacity to. To be there and to hold space for the other person. So this is why it really shows, like, there is a very deep, bigger pain there and big fear that needs to be addressed. And unless we are able to kind of help that person overcome that and at least take that first step towards joining their peers. Right. I think then it would be very hard for them in the real world. And this is why, you know, this type of work of, like, coaching them and guiding them through that is so incredibly valuable.

I always recommend small steps. So what worked for me in the past, that's what I recommend to our students, too. So I always ask them, like, okay, so what are you afraid of? And what do you want to achieve. And then we have this conversation and I get to know them a bit better, understand their needs, and then I suggest something that will help, but something that is not so scary. Like, you know, let's start with something small. Maybe you don't have to join that conversation group with a lot of people, but how about you find a speaking partner and talk to one person, and then maybe, you know, in a couple of weeks we can talk about you joining a conversation group. So, you know, joining a program is fantastic, but then there's still many steps that will make the person actually use all the opportunities in the program.

Yeah, I can't remember because we had, like, all these connectivity issues. Did you tell everyone where you're from and your story and where you're now I know that you haven't.

Yeah. So in the beginning, I said that I'm from Serbia, so, yeah, English is my second language. I've been talking about that the whole time. But actually I live in the Netherlands, so I use English in my daily life, and I use English at home as well, because my partner is actually Portuguese. So we communicate in English at home. And English is just the language that my life is in English. So it's not just about work, but I use it at all times.

Okay, which language is more comfortable for you to speak at?

Now, that's very difficult, but probably English.

I thought, you know, that's the language that you use usually.

Right, Exactly. But I do notice it because I use English all the time at home, at work, and I feel like this very, like, say, confident person in English, but then if I try to translate all of that into Serbian, it's a bit different. So now, actually, when I go to Serbia, I struggle a bit sometimes to find words and to just to be as expressive as I am in English. I mean, maybe my pronunciation is, you know, native in Serbian, but that doesn't mean that I'm more confident in Serbian. So now I'm more confident in English. It's just how it happened. I'm not saying that that's, you know, a must. And I know that Hadar for you, I mean, you're still very, very in Hebrew as well. But your story is completely different because, I mean, you live in Israel. You do speak Hebrew every day. But for me, it's. It's just life circumstances. But I think that it's a good lesson, a good message. If you're not using a language and it doesn't matter if it's your first language, you can lose the fluency and the confidence. Yeah. And it's happening to me. I do need, you know, like a few days to kind of get into it again when I go back home.

Yeah, I hear it a lot from my students. You know, this is a great example, but also from students who have moved to the US and then they come back after a few years so they lose the sense or how comfortable the language feels, even if it's your native language. So when it comes to English as a second language, if you don't use it often, of course it's going to feel like not natural in your mouth and you won't have that immediacy that you have in your first language. And this is why we really, part of the work that we do is get our students to develop those habits where English is a part of their lives. It's not a project that you take on. It's not like a three month course. No, it's like really understanding that if you want to have that new presence in English and new identity, in a way, it needs to be a part of your life, which means that you'll need to use it daily, even if it's just 10 minutes a day. Jelena, so what would you tell students who are hesitating about joining? They're thinking about it, but they're not. Like, what would you recommend?

Well, if you've recognized even a piece of yourself and your fears and everything that I said and everything that I went through, I really think that New Sound can help you. And I experienced this, well, huge transformation, I really did in Accent Makeover a long time ago. And Hadar, you have created a whole new program since then. You have improved the way you're teaching and you have included a lot more about mindset, about habits, about voice, about fluency. So it's incredible. New Sound is everything I dreamed of when I was doing Accent Makeover and now we have it. So I really recommend everybody, if you have any fears around speaking English, if you're not sure about your identity as an English speaker, if you live in an English speaking country, but you're not confident about using English, if you are passionate about pronunciation as I am and learning about the sounds of English, I would definitely recommend joining New Sound. And I'll be waiting for you there. So maybe you don't see a lot of me on YouTube and Instagram, but if you join our programs, I'm there a lot.

Oh, you see Elena a lot. And we got a question from Irina. She asked, will I learn all the sounds in New Sound course Vowels and consonants. Do you want to answer?

Absolutely. Absolutely. So we have selected all of the vowels and consonants that tend to be the most challenging for English learners or new speakers of English. So you will definitely learn about all the tricky sounds, actually, all the vowels, because they tend to be pretty tricky. And we have selected the trickiest consonants, like the r sound, the th sound. So. Sounds that people usually struggle with. So. Yes.

Amazing. All right, Jelena, where do you see yourself five years from today? I know that you did not expect this question.

Well, I still see myself helping people, helping new speakers of English, feeling more confident. And my goal is to reach more people. People. So that is, I'm very, very passionate about that because there are so many people who are afraid to even ask for help. And. Yeah. And. And my goal is to reach as many people as I can and as we can, because I do plan to stay with you. Oh.

I have no doubt that in five years, you know, we are definitely going to stay and continue supporting all our beautiful students. And I love what you just said, because this is exactly why I'm here, too. And we want to reach as many people as possible, mainly because we know the transformation that they go through when they join. Because English is not the end goal. Right. English is a tool, is the means to get the things we want in life, to get the transformation we want in life, to have the opportunities that we want to live the life we love. So this is our way of helping change lives and build communities, I think, where we both work so well together and we're so passionate about it. Yelena, I'm so grateful for you and for the work that you do and how you support our students. And thank you so much for this precious time sharing your story and inspiration. For those of you, some of you were asking about new sound, you can go to hadar shemesh.com.

Join.

So that's it. We'll be in the support, answering your questions if you have. And that's it. Yelena, thank you so, so much.

Thank you.

All right, everyone, thank you so much. And bye, everyone. Bye, Elen.

Sam.