285. Real Stories About What's Possible | Interview with Brenda

Welcome to the Influency Podcast. I'm Hadar and today we are going to listen to a real life story about English success. You are going to listen to an interview with one of my students who is going to tell you what is possible now that English is no longer an obstacle. Let's listen.

Today I want you to join me for a conversation with Brenda. Hi, how are you? So good to see you.

Good to see you too. I'm very happy to be here. I'm very excited and feel very honored to be talking to you.

Well, the honor is mine. So for those who don't know you or who unfortunately don't have the pleasure of knowing you, would you like to tell us a little bit about who you are and a bit about your background?

Yes, absolutely. So my name is Brenda. I am a PhD in physics, recently graduated. I am originally from Mexico and I joined Hadar's program. I found you on Instagram and it was for a challenge that is was called Loud and proud in 2020. I remember that and I think at that point I was already two years in my PhD, but I always felt very self conscious about how I was speaking English and the fact that I couldn't communicate. I felt like I wasn't communicating well. Yeah. And I studied my PhD here in the US at Vanderbilt University. So yeah, I think that was one of the reasons why magically I found you. I have been growing and not only in how I speak English, but also how I interact with others. And like you said, the mindset work, I think that was the most fundamental work that I had to do which opened other doors to myself. Like mindset in English has a reflection in other areas of life. Yeah, I'm very, very grateful that I found you. And yeah. So I after doing the work in 2020, the loud and Proud Challenge, I decided to join Accent Makeover and after that was a great experience. It was a lot of work. But I was very committed to feel better when speaking English and to feel like myself.

I want to take a moment if anyone missed what you just said, because I have made a decision not just to improve, but to stay committed to constantly growing and improving. And I think that is the key that really what has gotten you the results? I'm committed and I'm willing to do what it takes. And I think that when you're willing to do what it takes in your case and when we see it in our students is like also to be open about all the other work that needs to be done, which means to dig Deep and to see what else is holding us back. That is not just the lack of vocabulary, because you and I both know that it's not just about vocabulary. And I want to talk about that. But before that, I'm so curious. Like, let me take you back, you know, to Mexico. You needing to decide where you're going to go do your PhD. Now, as you know, in Mexico, I'm sure that you communicate in English, but it wasn't like studying and doing the work and doing a freaking PhD. One of the hardest things in physics.

Yes, I wrote it down.

In experimental particle physics. Yeah, in English. What was that like for you to make that decision to do that?

Well, it was very interesting. I got interested in physics when I was in high school. And I remember in my university, I come from a small university, public university in Mexico. There was one student back then who had the opportunity to do an internship in one of those big particle physics laboratories. There is one here in the us There is another one in Switzerland, which is where you have the large hopping collider. And all of that. I found also particle physics, thanks to Abubi.

Wow.

And that inspired. Inspired me to say, well, if they could. And I have somebody who I had the pleasure to meet, and I still talk to this person, she's now a PhD in physics as well. I said, if they could do it, I think I can do it too. And I know that it's going to take a lot of work. I knew it because when I started high school and I started learning physics, I said, well, I enjoy the. The subject. I enjoy learning about nature and how it works and all that. So for me, it was always like, this is how I need to do it. And in order to go and have those opportunities, I need to be really focused on studying physics and then going for grad school and physics. My original plan changed a little bit because of circumstances, but I always had in mind to do a PhD in physics. And to be honest, I wasn't thinking on doing a PhD abroad at the beginning. I was thinking to do all of my education in Mexico. But then I started to hear other people went to other countries to do their PhD. And I said, well, if I can do it, I can do it too.

Amazing.

But the US wasn't my first option. I always thought since I knew that I wanted to do particle physics, I thought it was more. It made more sense to go to Europe. And also because of the way in which we do graduate school. So in Mexico is a master's degree, then a PhD and Europe have the same path. I knew I didn't understand very well how I was in the us. I know that here, after graduating from undergrad or from college, you can go directly to the PhD. But I always thought that is too far for me. Like, I didn't have examples. And I said, probably that's not going to be possible because the level is really high. They are very competitive. And I am not very good at speaking English. That's what I thought. I knew that it was going to require me since I have put my eyes on those international collaborations that I had to speak English at some point. But thinking about the US wasn't my first option. And life put me here as the first option. Wow.

Wow. So what happened to you when you first came in and started your studies and interaction and working in the lab? What was it like?

Yeah. So actually my first time coming to the US was before graduating from college. I had an internship at Fermila in Chicago, Walnut, Chicago. And I think there is where everything, all of those beliefs that I didn't know I had started to show up. And I remember very well the day that I arrived here to the airport. We had to call somebody to pick us up. So they arranged some like, cab service from the airport to the lab. I was so nervous. And I remember calling this person and probably they had a bad day. Probably they were not having a lot of patience. And I started saying, like, I need. I'm talking, I'm calling because I need a cab service for this particular person. And yeah, so I gave the details. I don't understand what you're saying. I don't understand what you're saying. I was like, what am I going to do if they don't come pick me up now? Where to go or who to call? And I thought most probably sending an email will be the option. So this person didn't have a lot of patience and he hang up. And I said, okay, I will try it again.

Yeah, because you have no choice, right? It's not like you can choose at this point. Okay. Like, it was embarrassing. It was like, I'm broken now. No, because you gotta, you gotta get.

Yeah. So I. I ended up calling again. And this time I don't know if it was the same person or another person, but I could communicate somehow. And. Yeah. So since then I was like, oh, no, I'm still a little afraid of phone calls. Not so much anymore. But somebody came and picked me up and the driver was very friendly and we had a conversation. It's a totally different Experience. And I told him, like, I didn't have a very good experience calling this person to. To send you to pick me up. And he said, how about, your English is great. I can understand you very well. And well, that was it. And I was still a little scared because it was the first time I was going to live abroad for quite a while. So it was 10 weeks. And after that, all of the people that I met at the lab were very friendly to me and were very patient. And I think that makes sense because it's like an international place. A lot of people from many other places come, and that's the rule. You have to be very understanding. And everyone speaks differently English. So I didn't feel so intimidated by that, except when I had to talk to people who I knew English was their first language. But I knew that it was going to come to an end. So I was several weeks, and I tried to enjoy as much as I could be the experience. And then after that, when I came for my PhD, I felt way more confident because I had already been talking or speaking English for a while. So that happened in 2016, and I came here in 2018. So it was two years of difference. But I don't feel like when coming here, all of those beliefs started to show up again, because I knew that here most of the people were born. Born in English.

Yeah. Okay, so a question before we move on in this journey. How important do you think is the environment you're in? Because, you know, you mentioned that you were in a supportive environment that helped you thrive in a way. But at the same time, even one negative experience could potentially have impacted how you feel. Even just like how you communicate over the phone could be, like, something there because of that one single experience. And, you know, I hear stories of students and followers who are at a workplace where they constantly get remarks or, you know, comments from. From their boss or maybe at home, they try to learn English and they don't get a lot of support. Like, what is the impact of being in an environment that doesn't allow you to feel good about English? Do you think it has any impact on their success in English?

I think it has an impact because we are. My belief is that we are people that need connections. And if you are in an environment that you feel safe to practice, to make mistakes and to say, well, this is just one time, that doesn't mean that I will not improve in the future or things like that. It's very important, at least for me, but it also helps to have. Not that it's helpful because I don't think that it feels good to receive those kind of comments. For me, the way that I refrain those situations is to say, okay, they are one. Telling me that there is an opportunity for growth. Probably not in the best way. But also I think that that is a practice of saying what is inside me, what is inside my mind. What is that limiting belief that this person is showing me right now, where is where I need to look inward so that I can do the work and later those comments don't do anything to me. Yeah, yeah.

Because I think we're definitely impacted. You know, most human beings are impacted by, by their environment. And I think you can't control others. So either you can change your circumstances if you're in an unsafe place, but if you don't want to change your surroundings or circumstances, you change, you reframe how you interpret that. I think this is such a good point. And, and I love what you said about asking, okay, what limiting belief is this trying to show me? Because I think that's, that's what it is. Right? Like, what belief do I have about myself? Where, where does it meet me that I feel bad when this person is saying that instead of, you know, it's theirs, it's their own limiting beliefs or limitations that are getting them to say what they say.

Exactly. Yes. And then they're also understanding that they may feel something. So we are showing them as well, something that they react in that particular way. So I feel like it's an opportunity for growth both ways.

Yeah, I agree. And I think. So my question was about this. Like, how much of this mindset work do you think is important for English growth and personally for your personal journey? So maybe talk a little bit about what happened when you started opening up and like, what made you decide to pursue any English training and how much of the mindset work was helpful for you in getting to where you are today?

Yeah, so when I started my PhD, the first two years, I was constantly worried about how I sounded, how people perceived me. And every time, well, I had to rehearse in my mind how to say things so that they sounded perfectly. And then I, I spoke, I said what I needed to say. And after that I was like, oh, Brenda, you didn't say this. This is not pronounced, and things like that. So I was constantly worrying before speaking. I spoke and then had. Half of the time I was thinking, why did you say that if you know better? And this. So it was a constant worrying and then beating myself up. And that becomes Very exhausting. Very, very exhausting. And I realized until very recently this, when I realized all of the time, all of the energy that that drains from you and from the present moment. And well, so I started my PhD just taking classes and that was okay because I didn't have to speak a lot.

I felt comfortable, of course, not, not being challenged to speak.

That like we would all feel, yeah.

Of course I can continue this forever. Yes, exactly.

I was like, well, this feels good. And because I started my PhD in the spring semester, that's why I didn't have to teach teach labs to the undergrads the very first semester, but the second semester I had to teach. And there is where everything. Because I had to instruct people in physics, I had to speak. They, they relied on me speaking. And I remember the first day I taught, I froze halfway in the class.

Tell me about this, Tell me about this moment. What was going on? What, what did you feel? What did you think and how did you come out of it?

Yeah, so it was a small class, I think less than 18 people. But for me it was a lot of pressure seeing them watching me, waiting for me to speak and to say something. And I remember having made notes and rehearsed before, but everything having them looking at me, I think that was what made me feel like, oh no, what do I do? They are waiting for me to say something. And in my mind, what was going through my mind was I am not capable enough to deliver a class for these people who are here waiting for me to knowledge, I don't know, to instruct them. And I just froze. And then I had one of the professors who is in, in charge of supervising the lens. He came around and I think that there is where I felt like, oh no, there's. This is too much pressure. And I just froze. But he, he helped me to continue with the class. And then after I had a moment to just reset, I came back. But after that I just thought this was a very bad impression on the students and they are not going to believe that I'm capable to do this. So there is where all of those beliefs were stronger than ever. And it was very hard for me to get out of that. I always felt nervous speaking in front of them. And I. What was always in my mind, maybe I don't deserve to be here. Maybe I. I'm not enough to be here in front of these people. So that happened for a semester and then I, I finished my teaching loan for the PhD. And then it was after that it was just presentations Speaking to collaborators and the group and making a lot of presentations. But even if I knew that good amount of people in our groups were non native speakers, this constantly weren't about that. So I was like, okay, this has to end. And it's just thinking about how speaking and not being able to. So every time somebody asks me to think like three minutes, what am I going to say? And I felt bad.

I'm just going to say that this is probably some people's biggest fear. And I just want to say that Brenda, that happened to Brenda and she survived it and she won eventually. She's a winner. She'll tell you about what's happening now. But it's important to understand that these experiences that we are so afraid of sometimes, and because of that fear we tend to not take on challenges or speaking opportunities or say yes to stuff like that. And because of that, you're now able to do things differently. Right. Have you had not that experience? You know that that's how you built your confidence and also you learned what else you need to do to overcome whatever that was going on. Right. But it's kind of like you gotta get your hands dirty to be able to figure out how you can move forward. And I think this is such a great example for everyone who's afraid. Just do it. You see, Brenda's still here. She survived it. She seems like a happy person, positive. By the way, your sister is here in the comments. She's doing a great job at like cheering you on, supporting you. LinkedIn. Definitely a femme. So thank you. Yeah, well, love that.

I have to say my, my family has been very supportive in the journey. My middle sister, she's studying linguistics and a lot of the things, as you have said in the training she had told me to, like, speaking is not the same as you find in a textbook. Speaking is totally different. And it's a bly entity. Like it changes with time. And you are, you are entitled to play with the language too.

Yes. So good. And we get confused sometimes because, you know, we see those videos on YouTube, like say this, don't say it like that, say it like this. But it's not true in real life. And you know, linguists will tell you there is no such thing as the standard. It's a made up thing by someone with power who wanted people to sound the same, really.

So.

So there is always variety in the language and it's not represented not in Hollywood, not on TV, not in the news and not on YouTube. Definitely not on YouTube, like for English learners and that has been very noticeable in recent years and I think that really messes up the way learners perceive the language. And thank God you had that at home. Like that reminder. Sometimes we don't want to believe in it, but if we hear it enough times, we may start kind of like saying, okay, it actually works better for me. I'm willing to be open for it.

Yeah.

So when Was that?

In 2020 18. And then 2019 was all year of doing presentations and things like that. And I remember expressing out loud my concern, like, do I sound well to people around me in my research group? And I said, yes, we understand you and things like that. So they were always very welcoming and very patient with me. But there is where now, looking back, I now understand that no matter how many times people say that to us, if we don't believe it ourselves first, we will not believe it. There is no one who can.

We don't need external validation. We need to first decide that we are great as we are and then we'll believe. Like people may say, no, you sound great. And you'd be like, no, I don't.

That's a lie. He's lying.

Right? So, so we first need to know that and to believe in that.

Yeah, yeah. So I think that all of that helped me to just look for resources and like many, many of us learning English, looking for videos, looking for applications where I could practice and things like that. But thankfully I found you and then I decided to join as a makeover and I, I can't tell you how much I learned about myself, about English. I feel like when, whenever we were learning about new sounds and I, I really started to listen to people. Yeah, it was like listening to music, like just identifying the sounds and saying, wow, I understand what this sound is. And once I knew how to identify them, I was able to say, okay, now it's time to practice. Now I know how to, to pronounce this. And it was, it was very powerful, everything that we learned. Yeah. So that really helped me a lot. I am now speaking a lot more than I spoke in the past and feeling more confident, which is amazing.

And congratulations. And I think that for you especially someone who is very, you know, you study physics, it's like you have a PhD in physics. Things have to make sense. And when there is like vagueness, when everything's vague inside the brain around the language, especially for people who are like, they need that self expression, we all do. I mean, I don't think there are people who need more than others, but like we all do need that self expression. But you know, you communicate things, you teach, you know, you have to use the language in a way that is safe, simple for people to understand. You have to relate complex messages in a simple way. And to do that, it's funny because it's not like simple English. You have to have a deep understanding of the language to be able to simplify a complicated message. And you have this responsibility. And I can imagine that understanding how it works, definitely the pronunciation work, so you can start hearing it makes all the difference. It starts kind of like resolving or allowing the fog to fade away. And then you're like, okay, reset, let's start again with a new experience, new relationship with the language. So I see that a lot with people going through that process. And of course, everything you said about the mindset work. What is your biggest limiting belief that you had to overcome? What did you discover was a belief that did not serve you?

That I am not enough. Like, I don't know English enough, I don't know enough vocabulary, I don't know enough pronunciations of the enoughness was everywhere. That's what I discovered because I always was trying to get more and more and more. I love books, I was watching videos, I was doing this, I was doing that. But it was everything like trying to get more and more but not implementing anything. Because I thought there must be a threshold where I know enough that I feel comfortable enough. But that's not true.

But that's like, just increases the gap because the more you know, the more not enough you feel. Because you know what you know and you always know that you don't have a speaking practice, it will never be enough. So it's not even compared to your first language, which is hard enough because it's never going to be the same. Also compared to the knowledge that you have of English because you keep consuming it, which makes it really, really, really hard and complicated. And I think that every limiting belief or every struggle, most of the struggles that we have always come down to this inner belief that we're not enough. Because like, even as kids, oh, look at your friend, look at what they're doing. Like, you always compare yourself to others, imagining or feeling or getting the messages as if they're better than you. And then you'll be like, I'd never be able, even kids like growing up to look at their parents where they're all held up and like they're the authority. And as a kid, you always start feeling like I'm not enough because I'm not Like my parents, I can't do what they do. And we bring that into every aspect of our lives. And definitely, definitely to English. And I think that doing this kind of work, like I said, mindset is such a intrinsic part of any language learning. So, Brenda, tell us a little bit about now. You recently submitted your PhD, right? Like, now you're teaching. So tell me, tell me more about what life looks like for you these days.

Yeah. So I defended my thesis on April 15, so yay.

It was my birthday. And this is when I get the message from you. And I was like, granda, you have to come speak. Speak to everyone.

Yeah.

Amazing.

Yeah. And after that, well, I graduated. My official graduation date is in. Was in May and I applied to some jobs. And what was interesting for me to see is English was not the first thing that I was worried about. I was worried about other things, not English. I had interviews and I remember going through the material that we have available in accent makeover for interviews. Since it was new for me, it was still nerve wracking, but I didn't feel like I need to practice a lot of English because I had already practiced just by speaking every day.

Yes. And trust the work that you've done, it's going to be there for you.

Yes. Yeah. And well, at the end, I decided to take a job teaching. And I remember that I got. Teaching is really hard in a second language. And here I am.

Yay.

Nice.

And I have to say something that I wanted to share is the fact that I feel I trust myself way more than I trusted myself before or in the past doesn't mean that I don't make mistakes. Sometimes when I'm tired, especially on Fridays, I find myself saying things twice because I stumbled with my words. And I was like, no, no, this. And I correct myself, but I do it in front of the students. I don't feel bad. I don't freeze anymore.

Amazing.

But now with more experience, I can say that that is a great opportunity for them to say everyone makes mistakes, even the person who's teaching us physics. And. And if they can, I can. Just like I did. If they can, I can. So, yeah, right now, well, this is my job. I'm teaching during the summer. Then in the fall or in spring semesters, I will be supervising the labs. Wow. So, yeah, it was. It was crazy to think that the thing that made me feel the worst was speaking English. Raising in front of people is not what I do.

Unbelievable. Unbelievable. The thing that was like the biggest fear and you know, that's the worst experience in your teaching. Like, you went through it and you went back and, you know, you're such a. You're a high achiever. You know what you want, you know what needs to be done to get it, and you're willing to do the work. And I think that is so incredibly important. This is how you were inside of Accent Makeover. Accent Makeover is a program that is now closed, but it was probably prior to new sound, just for those who don't know what we're talking about. But you showed up, you did the work. You kind of, like, you brought the challenges. You discussed it. Like, you. You found solutions. And I think having that proactive approach and not letting setbacks hold you back is really what's going to get you what you want. Like, just like your story, you know, that phone call and freezing in front of class. And I'm sure a lot of, like, dozens of other situations where you could have easily said, maybe I should not do this, but you said, yeah, And I think, like, success is just when you fail and you learn from it.

Yeah, I agree.

Anything else you'd like to share before we wrap up? And maybe a piece of advice for those who are now where you were a few years ago?

Yeah. Well, I have to say that you have to believe that you're enough. I think that's. That's basic. Yeah. It's foundational to. To everything and being open to. To reframe all of those beliefs. I really love that. That word that I learned with you and I used it. I use it a lot. Reframing, just saying. Okay, I feel like this is a big, big challenge, but I can overcome this challenge because there is proof that I have done this in the past, and I can go wherever I want to go, and there is nothing really impossible. And another thing, like you said, to not comparing ourselves to others, because there is where we stop. We lose. We lose. Comparing ourselves to others. I cannot compare myself to a person who was born in English because I am not that person. And I can compare myself to other people who now speak fluently, but I knew that they had struggles. I feel like for me, it was a lot of work. Saying instead of comparing myself and putting myself down, it is more about seeing them as an inspiration. Like, if they can do it, I can do it, too. And another thing that I remember very, very well that I learned with you is about not putting down the English of others either. Because as we judge the others, we judge ourselves. It's just a reflection of how we talk to ourselves. Yeah.

The more we do it towards others, it stays in our brain and then that's going to be there when. When we speak. And I think this is. It's very easy to not connect the two and be judgmental of fellow non native speakers. I see that a lot. Like, you know, just to have in the past students, like sending me, oh, look at, you know, I'm better than her. Right. I'm better than him. It's just like, you know. No, it's not serving you.

No, no.

We have.

We have different journeys. We have different timelines. We have different needs, different objectives to different goals. Yeah. So there's no. No need to be comparing ourselves to others.

Yeah.

And just keep practicing being committed and returning to the intention that we have, saying, okay, why am I doing this? Oh, because of this. Then it's worth spending the time, spending the 10 minutes practicing every day. Yeah. Those are the pieces of advice.

And Brenda is a living example that this works. Right. This has worked for her. Like simply just putting into practice these three things, understanding those that you are enough. Not compare yourself to others. And stay committed to the work because, you know, someone's got to do the work and unfortunately, it's you. So you might as well stay committed and see results. So that's it. Beautiful. Brenda, I could not have summarized that any better. And I'm just going to reiterate something that you said. If this can happen to him or her, this can happen to me too. And I want you watching this, to look at Brenda and say, if this happened to her, this can happen to me too. Because she didn't have all the golden opportunities, not a native speaker, she had to immigrate, which is a huge deal in and of itself. She had challenges, but she did not let that stop her. If she did it, I bet that you can too, if you put in those pieces of advice into practice. Brenda, I'm so happy for you. So happy. So happy to talk to you and to listen to this closing circle story. And I cannot wait to continue hearing about your incredible success in the future. Thank you so much for being open and sharing that story with us today. And thank you, Brenda. Bye.

Sa.