310. The Secrets of TED Speakers with Helena Bowen

Welcome to the Influency Podcast. I'm Hadar and this is episode number 310. Today I'm going to share with you an interview I held with Helena Bowen. Helena is a public speaking coach who works with TED speakers and she will share with you all her secrets on how she helps TED speakers deliver a compelling message in an interesting way. She's going to share with you some stories and mindset tips and even practical tips to improve your speaking skills in general and on video. I had so much fun having this conversation with her and I hope that you are going to enjoy it too. So let's listen to this interview.

So today we have a special guest. Her name is Helena.

Hi Helena, good to see you again.

So good to see you. Would you like to just first of all introduce yourself?

Yeah. Hi guys. I'm Helena Bowen. I'm a speaker coach and speech writer. I work primarily with TED and tedx speakers, but then I work with all kinds of business owners, executives, corporate people who want to become better speakers.

And how have things been like recently? Because obviously you've been working with speakers about public speaking and public speaking requires public. The public. Right. And that doesn't really exist recently. How has it been for you to transition that way?

Yeah, I mean it's been such a learning curve. I mean just my entire job and career is kind of revolves around live events. And so for live events to be off the table in many places, kind of indefinitely, like a lot of places we're hearing live stages will come back in 2021, maybe middle of 2021. So that has been crazy just seeing change. But I've actually been amazed to see how many events are really willing to adapt and try new things and try going online. The main TED conference, which is normally a week long conference in Vancouver, quickly changed to doing a eight week digital version of their conference. Wow. And many conferences are following suitcases.

And I think there is something, I mean there is nothing like the real life experience and interacting with people. But I think there is also an opportunity here because it's more accessible.

Right.

For more people around the world, people who can't make it to the conference or who, you know, the trip is not possible for them. So I think there is something exciting about that. Like knowledge becomes more accessible.

Absolutely. To so many people. And I mean I think that's the really exciting opportunity is that there are these aspects of virtual events that live events can accommodate. So there's obviously more interactivity. Weirdly. Right. In a digital space because all of you guys can submit your questions. We can get questions in real time. That would never happen in a theater. And then to your point, the accessibility is amazing. The costs are so much lower for events, so they're able to lower their ticket prices and way more able to join. So even though there's some obvious losses, you know, I love a good live event, obviously, but there's some benefits too. And so I think we'll see the picture that some events will end up doing some of those because they find that they like some of this digital world.

I mean, ideally, when I was offered the TED Talk, like, at first I was, you know, it was a dream come true. And then it was supposed to have gone virtual, right? And I was like, you know, I was a little disappointed. And then I said, well, and everyone would be able to see it live, you know, as I'm doing it. So I had this excitement around that and then that, like, also, because there was a lot that went into it, including the budget and everything. But I think that this is a great, you know, like, streaming live events can be very exciting. Like especially TED Talks, definitely.

And already so much of ted's brand revolves around the recorded videos anyway. And, you know, as you mentioned earlier, a lot of people I'm sure listening to this right now are using TED Talks as a way to learn and improve their English. And that's, you know, one of the things that I've enjoyed most about the TED brand and actually how I got involved originally. If you guys didn't know this was an opportunity, by the way, I would look into it. But TED has this program called TED Translators, and that's actually how I got started, is working on the English transcription side of TED Translators.

So you started just transcribing.

So basically, TED Translators, interestingly, is a volunteer program with volunteers like you all over the world. And basically they take the TED Talks that are available online and translate them into their native languages. And so my job, what I was doing as a volunteer originally was transcribing English language talks into English. So then all of these volunteers around the world could translate them into other languages. And so if you guys have any interest in that, I'm sure all of you here are bilingual. Trilingual, quadrilingual. I don't know if that's a word, but that could be always be a fun way for you.

We can invent it.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's like a lot of responsibility to write the English captions or like to transcribe it, because if you mess up, then like the entire world, everyone messes up because everyone bases their. Yeah. So respect doing that work. Have you noticed certain patterns in TED talks?

Yeah, I actually, I think in. In retrospect, I didn't realize this at the time. It was just my way of easily getting involved. And at the time I was working in Hollywood, so it was crazy long hours. My schedule was completely unpredictable. There was no way for me to have a volunteer job in any sort of normal capacity. And so I did this TED translators volunteer job because I could do it at like two in the morning on a Wednesday in my pajamas. And I get this over and over and over and over again. Yeah. For dozens and dozens of talks. And I think in hindsight, that really, really helped me as a coach because I learned almost intuitively what makes a TED talk or not. By sitting there, like, typing it out slowly over and over again, syncing all the. Right. And everything. Yeah.

I think that as a teacher and as a learner before that, like, I was using a lot of TED talks and I definitely remember that, you know, some of the patterns or the intonation patterns. Right. Like, they stuck with me and I kind of use them subconsciously. And this is why I think repetition or like looking into such talks again and again because they do have a lot of similar patterns.

Right.

Like how they build up the, you know, the main point and how the intonation builds up. So I think that you can really learn a lot. There's so much to learn about how to use the language and phrasing and pauses and all of that.

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, really all. I think the biggest takeaway that I've learned from TED about clear communication is that the way that you write your talk for TED and tedx both is very, very simple. And I think a lot of people see TED as this very prestigious, reputable brand. And so they think they talk senior academics when really they're using in general, like second to fourth grade English. They're writing in the most clear, simple way possible. And I personally think that's why TED has become such a global brand, is because all of these people who don't necessarily speak English or they don't speak XYZ language can so much easier understand that than like many other, you know, academic texts or anything that are written at such a hard level to understand.

Right. And it's great because sometimes we're really talking about complex ideas. Right. That are delivered in 18 minutes or 20 minutes or 15 minutes. Right. And with, you know, basically not basic language, but not fancy language.

Right.

And this is why it's so relatable not just by non native speakers, but by everyone. I love that. So, okay, so sometimes when we watch TED talks, it feels like they have it all figured out. Like they're so talented and they have it right. Like, and they. It's just, they're gifted. It's these people that do so well. So my question is, having worked with so many ted or in TEDx speakers, is it really like that at the beginning or is there.

Yeah, well, I mean, I don't want to put any of my speakers on blast, obviously, but I think what most people don't realize is that for most TED talks that you see on the homepage of Ted.com or a lot of the TedX talks you see on YouTube, there have been months of work that went into that talk with the coach. Yeah. So I think the standard for most of the speakers that I work with is to two to three months of preparation. And yeah, I think what's really interesting about the TED brand is a lot of times people see a TED speaker and they see what a great speaker they are. And so they think they must have, like, climbed this ladder to get to the top of the speaking world. And that's really not how it works at all. A lot of the TED speakers that I work with have very little experience as a public speaker, but they have a really cool idea. So they have a really great idea that they want to talk about. So they get booked to speak based on that idea. And then it's our job to kind of get them up to speed and make sure that they're a really awesome clear speaker, even if they have very little experience to begin with.

And that is so refreshing to hear because again, it's like for people in my community, for example, speakers who, you know, anyway, there is that gap between how they come across in English and how they come across in their native language. So there is this gap. And they always feel the lack.

Right.

Like it's not enough. And then they always also, as speakers, they compare themselves to native speakers or they compare themselves to the people who they learn with, like TED speakers. And it all seems so perfect and it's really good to hear. And I might even ask you to, like, give me a few examples of transformational journey of like, one of the speakers that you've worked with. Like, it's really refreshing to hear that. No, they need to put in a lot of work. And sometimes, like, especially when it comes to speaking English, we expect ourselves to perform really well right off the bat, like, okay, I need to have a meeting. Let me prepare the slides. And I should be, you know, really good presenting it just because I'm expected to hear. But now, like, even if it. Whether it's a meeting or a TED Talk, if you are, you know, if you haven't done it many times before, you got to do it again and again and again before to be able to do it well. And if you don't do that, then don't expect, you know, results that are different from where you're at, like, where you're starting. Right. If you're not doing something differently than usual, don't expect different results.

Absolutely. I mean, I think people are almost sometimes shocked at how much preparation goes into it. And I sometimes purposely don't tell my speakers how much preparation goes into it, because I think they might be scared to hear that. But, yeah, I mean, we're not only, like, iterating draft after draft after draft, writing and rewriting and rewriting, you know, over the course of a month, month and a half, two months. But then when we rehearse, we're rehearsing over and over and over and over and over again. And if you looked at. I almost kind of wish TED would publish some of the stuff and show people, like, where they started and how far they came, but. Awesome.

That's huge.

Oh, my gosh, it's so huge. And it just goes to show how much work is really being done behind the scenes, which, unfortunately, none of us ever see. So we just see the TED speaker and we're like, oh, my God, they're so talented that it's so talent.

It's work exactly. Like, it's. It's very much like Instagram, where you see this ideal, you know, one of the thought leaders or the, like, Instagrammers, and you look at them and they're like, they all look so beautiful and perfect and, like, they don't know that everything was curated. And they were like, you know, sending. And it's not what you see if something is successful. Well, maybe it was not the best example because it's not just, like, external. But when something is successful, what you see is the result of really all the work behind the scenes. And I would love that. You should definitely promote it. Go to TED and be like, let's document all the processes, because it's so good. Yeah. So what is the process like? For example, one of the things that I've learned from you was I loved how you layered it instead of going to the end result. Okay, let's write the script or let's write bullet points. Like you really go step by step by step. Now we're not going to get into that, but what is the process like when you're just starting out with someone who doesn't like they have an idea but they don't know how to build it into a course? Now I'm asking these questions and you guys listening, you might be like, okay, I don't have a TED Talk planned, so this is not for me.

Right, yeah.

So I want to say that this is like the tips that you're going to share with us is about pretty much anything, right? Like if you want to make a video to promote yourself or to talk about, to convince someone, you can use those, those steps. It doesn't even have to be in public or if you have a presentation at work, Am I right?

Like, absolutely. And I mean I know a lot of you use create videos to practice your English, so anything I talk about here you can use in those videos as well. But yeah, I mean really what, what I try to do when I work with speakers is to break the process down into very manageable little bite sized chunks so the process doesn't feel too overwhelming. Because I find that a lot of people are really scared of public speaking. And a lot of that anxiety comes from the fact that they are trying to rush the process or do it all really quickly or feel like they're not prepared. But if you prepare adequately, there's really nothing to be that afraid of. Once you're prepared, you're just doing something you've already done 100 times before and you can feel so confident in it. So when I was working with speakers, normally what I'm doing is helping them identify up front, you know, what is this idea you want to cover in the talk? Same thing could go for your video as well. And the key with TED and I think online video to the same degree, TED of course, has been popularized as online video is picking a very narrow slice, like picking a very, very specific topic. So once we've identified that specific topic, then we create an outline, we create drafts, we, we improve the storytelling, we revise and revise and revise. And then one of the keys that a lot of people miss with public speaking is to lock your draft at a certain point so it doesn't change anymore. Because a lot of times people are making changes until the 11th hour.

Right?

Right. And then they show up to the event or the filming stage or whatever and they, their brain is trying to make sense of the hundred changes they've just made.

Right.

I've worked with, you know, TEDx speakers who are non native speakers and they had to work on their English. And I've had, or just people who presented, you know, had like big presentations or lectures. And there is so much focus on getting the slides right or, you know, like the design or the message. And like if they wrote the right, you know, sentence on the slide, like no one reads it anyway. Right. So they focus so much on that rather than just like stand up and speak as much as possible.

Right.

Do it again and again and again. Like if you have figured out the slides, the most important thing is what happens when you're up there speaking. So that's one thing. And the second thing I wanted to say about the draft, which I love, so I'm just going to reiterate something that you said about choose something very narrow. Right. Like don't try to say too many things. Right. Choose one thing and then work on that one thing. Right. Like again and again and again.

Improve it. Yeah. Which is difficult for a lot of speakers because especially if you've been doing something like you're doing a presentation for work or if you're creating a video, you know, maybe you've been doing this for 10 years and like, how do you cram 10 years worth of information into one talk? That's the question I always get. And you can't. It's just, it can't be done. It's always a bad experience for the audience. It's hard for you. It's much better to just pick one thing and then you have a hundred talks, you have a hundred videos you can make. You're never going to run out if you pick like a really narrow slice.

Right?

Right, right.

It's so important.

Yeah. It's better for everyone involved if you just pick a very narrow topic.

Okay. So you go through the draft until you, you are satisfied with something. Then what happens?

Yeah, and then we lock the draft so no more changes. And then in the TED and TEDx world, you're actually going to sort of memorize that talk. Memorize isn't the right word. We don't want you to memorize it word for word, like a play, like an actor in a play. But we want you to learn the content really, really well so that you can reliably deliver the same talk over and over again.

So can you, can you elaborate on that a little bit? What is the difference? So for people thinking that they have.

To memorize and so when people try to memorize. And especially if you're not a trained actor, it can feel so overwhelming because you get into this space of perfectionism where, like, if you mess up one word, oh my gosh, what do I do? And so rather, we're getting you to learn the content. So, like, an example would be if you. If the sentence in your talk was, today I went to the supermarket and bought a bunch of bananas, you know, you might memorize that sentence. Or you could just say, like, I went to the grocery store and bought some bananas today. That's effectively the same content. As far as the audience is concerned. That's the exact same same. So as long as you remember, like, oh, I have this sentence about buying bananas, then you can deliver it off the cuff. And you don't have to worry so much about, like, getting each and every word correct in the exact perfect order, because that's really what tends to overwhelm people.

But what would you say? And I can, like, hear people thinking that. What would you say? Because I. I've had people asking me this before to students who say, okay, so non English is not their native language. And sure, and I'm so about that, like, not to memorize it, because then you're like, so obsessed with getting it right and being in the moment. But what if they say, okay, but if I don't memorize, I might make mistakes because it's not natural for me to improvise without making mistakes. So what would you say about that?

Yeah, I mean, I have two answers. So one, you absolutely can memorize if you want to. But the other answer is, mistakes aren't that bad. Honestly, like, I think it's really interesting for people if you look at the most watched talks on Ted.com so you can go to Ted.com and sort by views. Those speakers are far, far, far from perfect. They make plenty of mistakes. They're very casual and conversational. And so for. And really, that's what the audience wants. The audience doesn't relate to a perfect person. None of us do. We just want someone who has a little bit more knowledge than we do in a particular area. So focus way more on the content and being conversational warm than you do on being absolutely perfect. And it's also just worth remembering. And I'm sure you've said this before, so I'm probably just repeating what you already say. But, you know, as a native English speaker myself, when I hear someone who's doing a TED Talk, and I work with plenty of them all the time, like in English, and it's not their first or second or third language. I am just already impressed. Like, I will forgive them any minor mistake because it is so impressive for someone to do a talk not in their native language.

Yeah.

And it's so important for people to hear that because the idea is the opposite. Right. Like, the biggest fear is that people judge us all the time, and native speakers think that we are less intelligent or whatever, and it's just like voices that they have in their heads or which is. I mean, we need to leave space for that because it's important how to deal with it. But it's important also to hear other voices and to see that it's actually not like that in reality. And not even with speakers, with people who are speaking in public. And the public could be the grocery store.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Very, very impressive. I'm working with a French speaker right now, and she's always apologizing for her lack of perfect English. And I'm like, I don't speak a word of French, so I don't know. I'm already so impressed by you. I can't help at all. On the French side, you're doing all of the work. You're doing fantastic.

Do they ever stop in the middle? Because we see it edited.

Right.

Like, and then we think that they just go from the beginning to end. So.

Yeah, so that's. I think one of the things I was most surprised by the first time I went to a TED conference was to see that the speaker would sometimes make a mistake or they'd pause or they'd need a sip of water or any of those things, because you don't see it in the final video.

You don't see it.

You know, they trim out any sort of, like, dead pauses or whatever and make it perfect and optimized for online. And so seeing that and knowing that that happens, I think is reassuring to people. And I've actually found the live audience is oftentimes extremely supportive of the speakers if they mess up or if they have to go back or they need a sip of water, whatever, because it shows. Like, oh, they're just a human on stage, just like me. They're not just this perfect, immortal being. So I think it can be really reassuring to see that.

Yeah. Really. Because you. You don't know that this happens when you watch TED Talks. And so you've been to many live events, right? Like, live TED events. Have you ever seen a talk that was just, like. It just didn't work? It wasn't.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I Mean, but plenty of times. Yeah. Then again, I also have, like, extremely high standards just because this is my job. So really, I think one of my biggest lessons and one of the great things is I get to see audience feedback, which the public doesn't necessarily get to see. And the phrase that we have in English, I don't know, in other languages as well, one man's trash is another man's treasure is so accurate because you'll see this audience feedback on one speaker who's like, oh, my God, that speaker changed my life. Like, life will never be the same. I love them so much. I love everything they said. And then another audience member will say, oh, that was the stupidest talk I've ever listened to. I don't know why you ever put this person on stage. And so to see that variation, it's, you know, in some ways, there have been plenty of talks that I thought were bad that did phenomenally well, and people love them. And then there were plenty of talks that I thought were fantastic that the public didn't really like.

So interesting.

Who's the. Yeah.

So what makes a good TED Talk a good TED Talk? If you can, like, identify the biggest TED talks or the talks that get the most viral talks.

What.

What made them work so well?

Yeah, so a couple things. So ted's brand slogan, for lack of a better word, is Ideas Worth Spreading. So to have one really focused, really clear idea that then other people could go in and learn from or replicate in their own life, that's really what makes a good TED Talk, and that's what makes it distinct from some other brands, like the Moth, for example. The Moth is a famous public speaking brand, but they're more focused on sharing really entertaining stories. With ted, the main focus is sharing an idea that then other people could take and apply in some way. I think that's the first thing. And then I think related to that, I find that most TED talks are solving a problem in some way. So in a lot of TED talks, the structure is just. A speaker identifies a problem at the beginning of the talk, and then throughout the course of the talk, they solve it with or for the audience. So I think. And in that way, it makes it so practical and so, so useful for people because it's either challenging ideas that they had that might not be true and kind of giving them a new way to look at things, or it's helping them overcome something that they've dealt with in life or work that's, you know, hindered them in some way.

I see. Like I'm always trying to find, you know, to find hacks or like, what makes this idea resonate more with people. But I think it's like a combination of so many things, like you said.

Sure, yeah. A lot of them too are also myth busting, like, so they're challenging an idea that most people have. So the most famous TED talk of all time, Ken Robinson's School Skill, Creativity. That talk has many tens of millions of views. And it's really because he kind of challenges the entire status quo of education, at least in the Western world. And you know, another really famous one, Bernie Brown, talking about vulnerability, most people before they saw that talk, that vulnerability was a bad thing. And so for her to then go and say actually not, it's amazing and kind of the key to life, that's really surprising and refreshing to people. Right, right.

Great. So we have a bunch of questions for you about public speaking. So I'm just going to go ahead. Okay. So Christina is asking how to tell interesting stories. That's a big, big question.

But yeah, that's a great question. I think what a lot of people miss about stories is that really what most people want to hear in a story, as an audience member, whether you realize it consciously or not, is some sort of change. So that's usually the value of storytelling is you're almost showing like the before something that changes and the after. So really having a clear idea of what changes in the course of the story. When you think about any Hollywood movie, right. The main character usually undergoes this massive change and comes out on the other side as a different person. So if nothing is changing in your story, it's probably not the best story in the world. It might still be interesting. But note to self.

Okay.

Yeah. The other secret that I always try to get people to think about is a lot of times when people try to tell a story, they come across as very general and vague. The more you can focus on a single specific moment. So a moment in time, whether you're, you know, going to a shoe store, you're on the sinking Titanic ship, or, you know, doing whatever specific thing, the more you can think about precise moments, the better because that will avoid the trap of being very vague in general. General. So think about really key moments in your life. A moment of change, a moment of tragedy, of hope, of joy. Like anything that really pops out in your memory as like a big moment. Those are usually great places for stories.

Great.

And I think like going into the details of what happened, like, what did you smell, hear, like, see you Know, and I think. And also because I always like to take it to the English practice. I think it's so great to be able to go into all the details because that's how you expand your ability to. Not only to tell stories, but to explore different ways to say things in English. So I think this is a great, great exercise as well. I love it. I think it's to be specific and to think about the change. That's really good. Anything else about stories?

I mean, those are the top two things I would suggest, but yeah, I think those are great. And then always have a clear idea of who your main character is, which is often you. Yeah, yeah, right.

But not always good.

Not always.

Okay, cool. Another question from Vivin. How to open a speech in a way that will engage the audience?

Ooh, I love this question. So a lot of times people, I'm sure you guys, especially if you have a corporate job, you've seen this at work. A lot of times people will start this job or start a talk with this long, boring interaction. Oh, thank you, Hadar, for inviting me. I'm so honored. Like, I've been working in this company for 20 years. Like, it's just so boring. And so rather, I suggest, keep your, keep any sort of acknowledgment of the host and the event to an absolute minimum. Like one sentence max. Thank you, Hadar. Move on. And then some of the best ways to start a speech are to either kind of hint at a problem, right? So if you're, if you're solving a problem in your speech, hinting at that problem at the beginning will really get people put on their kind of detectives cap and start thinking from themselves. Like, how do I solve this problem? That's one way. Telling people that they're wrong about something is always, ooh, that's a good one. Yeah, it's always a great one for a thief. Because immediately people will be like, no, I'm not. You know, it kind of puts them on the defensive.

That works, really, but at least, but attentive. Like, they want to pay attention. They're like, I want to prove them wrong, so I'm going to keep on listening.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Oftentimes, starting with a relevant kind of news story, a story from your own life, you'll notice that I would say, like, I don't know, 50% of TED talks start with some sort of short, you know, one to two minute story. Whether that's from the speaker's own life or it's from the nudes. Those seem to work really well because it gets people intrigued and immersed in the idea before you start getting into the actual kind of explanatory content of the speech. Yeah, but the thing is, I would say one of the biggest mistakes that speakers make broadly is that they will spend like if, for example, if it's a 15 minute speech, they'll spend like 10 minutes setting up what they're going to talk about and then five minutes talking about the actual thing. And really you want to only spend like a few sentences before you're in it. You want to be in it as quick as possible, especially when we're talking about online video, when people just have the opportunity to click away at any time. Like, whereas if you're in a live audience, you're a little bit trapped. But still you don't want people to be bored in those first minutes because that will kind of set their decision for the rest of the talk. Like they either decide you're boring or engaging kind of right away, and it's hard to change.

So would you say that this tip is relevant for any kind of talk? Like, even if it's a presentation at work? Because a lot of people say no. Well, it's, you know, it's a professional setting. It's not like a talk talk.

So yeah, so yeah, I think it's absolutely relevant. Especially as, you know, our work, our work culture is changing, especially around speeches, from being like very super formal to being a lot more casual and conversational storytelling, that kind of thing. So by all means, use that tip anywhere. And especially on online video. Especially. People don't have patience online.

Right?

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, good. I mean, on YouTube, you know, sometimes I used to start with like really long introductions and then I started noticing that people in the comments, they just put a timestamp and I'm like, what is that? It's like this is where the video starts, like 5 and 12 seconds, you know, 5 minutes, 12 seconds. And it's funny. Yeah, people just want to get to the point.

Totally. Yeah. And I think that's actually been really interesting for me to see about TikTok. Just because TikTok has become such a super viral platform is you only have a minute. So, like, you really are forcing it to the point. And I think people can take that lesson and apply to other platforms as well and they'll be more successful on a YouTube or a Facebook or Instagram, whatever.

Such a good way to practice. Okay, so you guys open a TikTok account and start doing one minute videos.

Yeah.

To practice speaking but saying something substantial in one minute, I think, like, being concise. It's a skill. You got to practice it. Yeah, I love it.

I follow so many English language learners on TikTok who are learning that language, so.

Oh, really?

Yeah, there's a lot of them out there. There might be some on this call. I don't know.

Okay. If you have a TikTok and you're practicing your English there, let us know. Okay. Another question Evie is asking. Best tips to create and maintain engagement with the audience.

Yeah, great question. So a lot of times people default to kind of these tactics that you'd almost see it like a Tony Robbins sort of thing, where it's like, raise your hand if say yes, if say aye. Yeah, exactly. And that's, you know, you can do that. I actually don't think that's as practical and useful as people think it is. To me, the best way to write an engaging talk is just to really have a clear problem upfront or a clear kind of reason for people to listen to. I know a lot of YouTubers do this. They'll immediately go into, you know, this is what you're going to learn. If you stick around to the end, you'll get whatever. You don't have to be that explicit in a speech necessarily, but to really make it clear very quickly and upfront, either explicitly or implicitly, why people should listen all the way to the end. Create some sort of problem or puzzle or mystery for them to chew on while they're listening to you. And then they'll listen all the way because they want to hear the answer. We just have this human instinct for puzzles and mysteries that we have to find out what happens. So if you can. If you can create that puzzle, that mystery, that problem very quickly up front, people will usually stick away, stick around all the way to the end because they have to find out, right?

There's like a mental engagement rather than like a physical, actual engagement, but it keeps them.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think the physical engagements don't work that well, mainly because when you think about it for yourself, like, I could say, raise your hand if you're listening to the live English show. And you'd raise your hand, but there's like kind of, who cares? You know what I mean? It doesn't change my experience of the show at all.

And also, it's like whenever they do that, they don't really like. It's not like they look and say, you tell me why? Why not? Like, right. Like, they don't really. They just Continue. So it's just. So no one actually wants to participate in that anymore?

Yeah, absolutely. So I think it's probably better to do, to your point, do the kind of mental thought based engagements rather than the kind of physical or more gimmicky stuff.

Cool. Yeah, very good. Okay, so I have another question. How to conclude. Conclude a talk.

Ooh, love that question as well. These are all you guys have questions. What a treat.

Very good question.

So with conclusions, if you have just spent the whole time solving a problem for the audience, you've given them a solution. You know, it might not be the end all, be all solution, but you've given them a solution. Oftentimes the best way to conclude your talk is to kind of paint a picture of what life will be like when that solution is implemented. So if you're giving them a really great hack for language learning, you know, your conclusion might be like, what your life will be like once you've implemented that hack, how much easier it will be to speak English or whatever that might be. Because then that really gives your audience an incentive to actually implement it because they're like, oh my gosh, I want that, I want that vision of the future.

So you actually take them to a different place. Like something is it. Does it have to be more personal, like to meet them where they're at, like take whatever they've learned. And then it depends.

Either it could be either. A lot of times, like if you're talking about something that's more like business related and corporate and institutional, a lot of times it will just show how, you know, the business or society or whatever would change as a result of that, you know, tool that was implemented. But if it's personal, then absolutely go the personal route of, you know, what would happen if they implemented this change. So for example, I worked with a speaker last year who was talking about mass shootings in America. And so he gave his solution to that. And then of course at the end he brings it back to his. His own child was killed in a shooting. So he brings it back to his own child. And you know, we don't want this for anyone else. So if we implement this solution, this won't happen to any other parents. As an example.

I see.

Yeah.

Okay, that's really good. Two more questions from before the talk. And then I know that a few people asked here something too. So one is short and easy. Where to look when speaking to a large group.

Oh, great question. Yeah, yeah, easy. So I would always ask, there's usually someone on the stage if you're at a live event, who's in charge of the speakers and everyone? Usually it's like a stage manager or something like that.

All the way in the back.

Yes. Ask them where to look because it totally depends on the auditorium. For some places you have to look up higher, for some places you have to look lower. It just. It completely depends on the venue. But in general, you do want to be looking around and making eye contact with various people, if you can, because that will just create the sense for the audience that you're really having kind of a one on one personal conversation with them.

So even if in a meeting, right, like let's say a group of five, six people, you would. And let's say I'm presenting something so just to move, not to lock my eyes on someone. And that's it.

Yeah, totally.

It's really interesting. Now in zoom calls, right? Like one of the things that I work with, like my teachers and everything, is that you guys, like, you can't look at the, at your photo because then you're gonna look like this. Or when you make a video, you gotta look at the camera, which is really weird. But then it feels like they're looking in your eyes. So it's.

Yeah, yeah.

So zoom calls are like, is that eye contact is important? But to Darwin's question, you're saying to just if it's a small group, for.

Most of the time, you can kind of like look from one person, change your gaze, look to another person, give them a sentence, Give them a sentence, and kind of move around a little bit with your gaze. But I think really, you know, and that, that to some degree is a cultural thing, by the way. So I know some cultures, direct eye contact is a little bit more question. So if that's you disregard. But I think for most people it's great to kind of make eye contact with different audience members. In my own case, I usually find that there's always a few faces in the audience who are smiling and super friendly and look super engaged. And then there's always a few people who are like on their phone. So I'll usually just like look at the smiley person, look at another smiley person, look at another smiley person, and just kind of bounce back and forth between a few of them.

Yeah. And don't get upset about like the people looking in their phones because for sure, that's just that. Yeah. And also one more interesting thing that you mentioned is that, like, we need to understand the space that we're walking into and the culture, because Some speakers might kind of like, go abroad and speak in different companies around the world. So they need to understand that culture. Because if you come from a culture that is very direct and eye contact is just like a matter of friendliness and being, you know, you need to understand that it's not always the case if you go to a different country where eye contact is less appreciated.

Absolutely intrusive. Totally. That's true for everything. And so usually there's someone who can tell you who's there. Like, if you have a contact there, they can usually tell you what's appropriate or what's not, depending on the culture. I run into this all the time because obviously I'm an American. Americans are known for being very smiling and, you know, effervescent. And a lot of times when I work with European clients who are known for not as being as smiley, that's always the question is like, should they be more kind of like that smiley American type? Or if they're talking to people from their own culture, probably not, because everyone else is used to a certain thing. So it just depends on your audience, what they're expecting, how to show up as the best version of yourself in that context.

And it's exactly like when we talk about pronunciation and learning a new accent or understanding the American accent, British accent, and in general, because that's what we focus on, just like being clear and delivering the message clearly. But I oftentimes say that it's like a costume because a lot of times people don't feel comfortable. It's like that cultural difference.

Right.

I don't want to smile. I'm not used to smiling all the time. Why do I need to do that? But sometimes, in some circumstances, it would serve you better if you do.

Right.

So it's not just about how they perceive you. It's just like you would. It would be easier for you to get what you want. And the same thing with. With pronunciation. Like, you don't have to speak with, like, the R sound or the th and to like to put the stress on the right words. But it might serve you better in certain situations that are less friendly or they're less, you know, that are more judgmental and discriminatory because unfortunately, like, this is the reality that we exist in.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. You're in Israel, right? Yeah, yeah. So actually, I mean, I have the perfect example of this. Back when I was working at hbo, we were working on a show that was being shot in Israel. And I think a lot of. What was it called? It was Originally called Stray Weeds. And then I think it ended up being called Our Boys.

Oh, yeah. Not too long ago. Right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Our Boys. It's a big show. Yeah.

Our Boys.

Yeah.

Yeah. So it was just interesting because, you know, obviously at hbo, I was used to working with a bunch of people in England and people all around Europe, and we'd never work. Worked with an Israeli production company before. And so when we originally started working with Israeli production company, every. Everyone seemed so, like, serious and angry all the time. And all of us were like, oh, my God, they're so, like, not realizing. And then eventually someone said, oh, that's just more normal for the Israeli culture as compared to, like, our culture in California. Everyone's, like, smiley all the time. And so just knowing that, you know, was useful for us because we thought that they were mad and we had no idea.

You know, I. Right. And I talk to my Israeli students a lot because the intonation in Hebrew is. Everything is, like, really flat.

Yeah.

Like, no, no, no. You know, we're not gonna.

Exactly.

And, like, they don't. They don't elaborate, like, really straight. If something's not. It's not like it would be better if we try something else. Like, no, no, not a good idea. So it's like that. And the intonation feels less friendly. But that's Hebrew. It's not like they're really friendly people most of the time. But it's important to understand what space you operate in.

Totally. Like, exactly. Found out. Oh, that's just more. That's how it is. Then it's like, okay, that's just how it is. You know? But at first it's like, oh, my God, they're so mad all the time. They hate us.

I actually know a few people from the production, so it's funny.

Oh, yeah. Fair.

And I think, again, that's the case for many different cultures. And this is why. Understanding what culture you operate in and the intonation differences. Because a lot of times it really comes down to that.

Yeah, for sure.

Plays a big role. Yeah. Okay, I have one more good question. Like, it's like the most obvious question that someone would ask about public speaking, which is how to overcome the fear of speaking in public.

Yes. I think the biggest thing is preparation and practice. So like I said, with most of these TED and TEDx speakers we're preparing for one month, two months, three months more. When you're spending so much time improving and doing all of that work behind the scenes, you will feel so much more confident in it. A lot of times. The reason why, when I talk to people about their fear of public speaking, it comes down to the fact that they're. They're afraid, so they procrastinate. They don't do anything on it. Then like the day before they have this big speech, they start working on it, and then they're not prepared, and that just exacerbates the anxiety. So preparing far enough in advance that you feel really comfortable and confident yourself is huge. There's always going to be a little bit of nerves and a little bit of anxiety. I mean, I do this for a living and I still always feel a little like, jittery before I'm going to give a talk. That's normal. But you can avoid 90% of the fear by just preparing in advance and then also practicing too, right? Like, just like practicing your English. If you can do all of this work behind the scenes to practice, then when you're actually speaking with a native speaker, it's so much easier and so much less.

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And it's not so much the result, it's like the process or like what goes through your head just before or as you're doing it. Right. And this can be like, you get into a better state where you do the work before, and then it's more automatic, you know, in my work and my students know that there's so much that goes into just repetition practice, you know, having a system and showing up. Right. Like having the courage to put themselves out there. So if you're afraid of public speaking, then get yourself as many public speaking gigs as possible. Right. Like, start making videos on a daily basis. You know, do zoom talks.

Yeah, that's. I mean, that's something I talk about all the time with my students, is a lot of times people will think, oh, I have a, I have a speaking engagement in six months. And then they're, they think they're going to prepare for it and they have nothing else speaking wise. So the more you can be doing a video here and a zoom there and whatever, all of those things that you do behind the scenes, even if you're just, you know, going on IG live and like two people are watching you, it's still really, really good practice. And it will make that final speech. If you're doing an important speech or an important presentation, it will make it so much better that you've done the work of like, getting on camera, getting on live, doing a zoom, what have you.

Okay, so this is such a good tip. I hope you guys are listening to Go Live as form of practice. Because it's one thing to speak to yourself at home, which is good. Like, I'm not saying that it's like, it's really good. It's better than thinking about it.

Right.

So that's like the next level and then maybe recording yourself or making a video, that would be like a higher level. But then going live is like the closest experience or practice of, you know, just like speaking in public or speaking live with real people.

Yeah, absolutely. It's a great tip.

Yeah, it was yours. So good job. Perfect tip. Like I would even say, I would even tell people, just start a new Instagram account and just go live. You know, like collect a few followers that you don't even know when go live. I love it.

Always delete this stuff. And on a lot of platforms like it go, it disappears in 24 hours anyway. So there is no risk really in practicing.

Yeah. Okay, so we promised a few video tips at the end. And by the way, you guys, if you go to Helena's Instagram account, there are a bunch of videos telling you all these nice juicy secrets. It's right here, Helena's Kitchen. So I think it would be a great way to learn more and just to apply it. But if we're already here, then tell us, give us a few tips on how to do well on video.

Great. Well, I'm sure most of you are already making videos, but my first tip, if you're not or if you're hesitating, this is maybe your first time ever watching this show. Do not worry about the equipment. A lot of times people get so hung up on like, what camera, what lighting, what audio, whatever. And obviously I spent most of my career thus far working on major Hollywood productions where that's like a huge deal. But if you're just practicing, the equipment does not matter at all. As long as we can hear you and see you, like just start with your phone, get going like right away, and then next, I think the best thing to do in terms of the content like you were talking about earlier, it's to pick a very, very specific slice or a very specific topic. So rather than talking about everything you know about animals, for example, if you just focused on just talking about, like why cats are the best pet that you can have, that's going to be such a better video than just talking about animals or cats or something broadly. So pick a very narrow slice, a very narrow idea. Oftentimes that's like an opinion express in a sentence, like, cats are the best pet. Here's you know my top tip for creating a video? Here's why you should go to this new restaurant in Tel Aviv, whatever, Take that narrow slice, and then just do the smallest bit of preparation before you go on video. I find that that adds, like, that reduces the stress dramatically. So, you know, when I'm writing a TED or TEDx talk, I write whole thing out head to tail. And I don't recommend that for online video in most cases. Instead, I just suggest you jot down a few bullet points and organize your thoughts a little bit so you'll feel a lot more comfortable on video. And then when you actually start recording, you'll feel better about it.

That's great.

Yeah.

I'm also a fan of writing bullet points and not a script. Even though English is not your native language and you feel like you want to get it right. So it doesn't matter. The four. Like, what we're trying to practice anyway is being able to translate our thoughts into words.

Right.

Like, or transform our thoughts into words. And if you prepare it in advance, then, you know, the spontaneity, you lose the spontaneity, which is what we want when we actually speak to people. So.

Yeah.

So writing bullet points. And would you recommend saying the whole thing a few times before or just like, go ahead and shoot it, like.

Start Depends on you. I usually will kind of think through the main points that I want, and then if I have them in bullet points, I can. I mean, I'm obviously delivering it talk in my native language, but I can usually say it off the cuff. I think it doesn't help to try it in advance, but you can always also, always record that. So just record your practice. Try to just get all the way through it. Because a lot of times people will make the mistake of, like, they make one mistake and they stop and they go back to the beginning. Try to force results all the way through.

That's really good.

You're not doing videos or practicing a talk because that will force you to kind of like, figure it out and get through it.

Yeah. Get past that obstacle.

Yeah.

Otherwise you might get stuck again. Yeah. Every time you get to it.

Right.

I feel that when I make videos, sometimes it's a new idea that I haven't prepared for. So I usually just start speaking in front of the camera. And I find it so much more effective if the camera is turned on, even though I know that it's the first time I'm doing it and it's not going to be the final take because I don't even have it figured out, but I know that, like, I'm better when I know that the camera's on.

Yeah.

And then I just, like, delete the take. But it feels different than if I were to just, like, say it to myself and then go in front of the camera. Plus, you might get surprised because it might be like, the best steak and.

Be like, oh, I nailed it. Yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean, I think that's brilliant because sometimes you'll surprise yourself and you'll get it right the first time and you'll be like, wow, I didn't even know I could do that.

Right. And, like, wouldn't it be so upsetting to be like, why didn't I record it so good? Okay, so use your phone. Focus on one thing, right? Be like, something really narrow and then just expand on that.

Bullet points.

Bullet points. Thank you. And.

And then I would just say just start recording and record even your practices and force yourself to get all the way through it. You'll be so much the. The better for it.

Would you recommend incorporating a story into it?

Sure.

Like, if I. Yeah.

Okay. Oftentimes stories are a great. If you've introduced the premise of your video jumping into a story, a lot of times it's a really great way to make a point and people remember those stories better than they remember any other type of content. So, you know, cool. You're just making up a post.

Just.

It's a great, great way to get people to remember it.

Stories. And you have to, like, find a story that relates to what you're trying to say and talk about.

Yep.

Okay, now, such great tips. And again, all of you in the influencing community, I think, yeah, like, we can actually take this and you can put it into your weekly videos. And there's so much, you know, good stuff that you can put into practice right away. One quick question, because I know she really wanted an answer. She said, Kuba is saying, when I get really excited, I forget everything I did do.

My bad.

Like, I'm preparing and I'm like, yeah, yeah.

I mean, I think part of that is practice and it's forcing yourself. Like we were just talking to. Forcing yourself to take a minute, think about it, and then push forward. Because a lot of times people, instead of thinking, like, they'll forget what they're talking about. And then instead of thinking, like, what's the next thing? They'll start thinking, oh, my God, I forgot what I'm talking about. I always forget what I'm talking about, you know, and then instead of Just. Okay, let me take a pause. What is the next thing? And luckily, on video, you can edit that stuff out. And then on stage, a lot of the time, you know, audience members won't notice your pause, because so often these pauses that we think in our heads are like 10 minutes long are actually only a few seconds.

So true.

So true.

Yeah. We're so judgmental when this, like, in the moment, everything seems horrendous, you know, like, every moment you get second, people don't even notice.

Totally. They never notice. They never notice most of the mistakes that you make on stage. So, yeah, force yourself when you're practicing like we were talking about. If you get excited and you're prone to forget everything, just force yourself to practice that. Practice forgetting things and then having to remember and get back on track.

That's awesome. Okay, so anything else? Last thing you want to share, you want to say before we wrap it up?

Last thing is go out there and practice. People are not judging you. They are cheering you on. I find that audiences are way more supportive than anyone ever imagined.

Yeah, I love that.

Yeah.

So good to know. Wow. Thank you so, so much. This was so interesting. I love every single thing here and a lot of practical tips that we can put into practice right away.

Great.

So as I said, go to Helena speaking on Instagram or the website is here. You can find good stuff there as well.

Perfect.

So thank you so much.

Thank you.

And I will speak to you soon. Bye. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you.

Bye. It.