341. Pronunciation & Inspiration with Sim Ahmadu

Welcome to the Influency Podcast. I'm Hadar and this is episode number 341. And today I am going to speak with coach and ESL teacher Seem Amadou. Hey, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me for another episode of the Influency Podcast. Today is another oldie interview with teacher Sim, whom I met on Instagram actually back in 2020. And I was very much impressed by the content that she shared and also her personality. We started connecting on DMs and I invited her to come and speak on Back then. It was the live English show to share her journey from growing up in a small village without any knowledge of English to becoming an accent and communication coach for a global IT company in Sim is such an inspiration and I hope you enjoy listening to her story.

Welcome, sim. How are you doing?

I'm. Farewell. Thank you, Hadar. I'm so happy to be here. Let me start by saying, Hadar, I've always loved you. Okay, so I. I used to follow you and then I'm like, okay, this person is so amazing. How am I gonna come in touch with this person? Or how am I gonna have contact with this person? I never knew that someday you and I will be doing something like this. Seriously, it's amazing.

Like the Internet, right? Like, you know, you are just. You connect. And then I saw you on Instagram, I think, and I was like, I like this girl. You know, like, your videos were great. And I'm always curious about how pronunciation and how they talk about it and how they simplify it. And when I see something that is just like, you know, I really resonate with that or I would probably talk about it like that then. I love connecting with people in that field. So, so glad to have you here. We were trying, like, different collaborations and, you know, something always came up. And finally we had this opportunity. So, Sim, why don't you introduce yourself to those who don't know you?

Yes. Okay. Thank you so much. And to Hadar's family, I would say thank you all for having me here. My name is Sim and I just told her that my full name is Sim Nom. You know, it means God's love. Sim means love and then Nom means God. And then she was asking, so which one? Where's the stress?

Sim Nom or Synom?

Now let's ask them. Let me ask you, tell me, where's the stress of my name?

Okay, so say it again, say it again. So everyone say it again. Which syllable do you hear the primary stress? Where Is there more emphasis? Let us know in the comments.

Sim Norm. Sim Norm. Sim Norm. Okay, so I am an English accent and pronunciation and communications coach currently at an IT company here in Nigeria and basically I teach pronunciation, I teach communication skills and soft skills. Why? Because these people actually communicate daily with different customers. So they are support engineers and they need to support people basically with their IT issues. So you know, they need to speak very well, they need to communicate effectively.

So as everything is over the phone. Right. You know they have to communicate over the phone.

Communicate by the phone, yes. So customer will call in. Hello. This is a challenge that I have. I have problems with my Microsoft or I have, I mean with my Outlook or my teams or whatever it is. And then you know, we've got engineers helping out with these things. So they get to communicate every day. So basically I, that's why I come in to help them on how to communicate effectively via emails or phone communication.

How does your day look like?

I'm currently at work right now and I had some trainings a few hours ago and I've been training since morning. So I come to work at latest, maybe eight and then I'm out at 5pm But I'm still here because of this live show. Yes. And then so we train back to back. We have new employees every now and then and then we've got to train them, we have the new employees orientation and then we have to, you know, carry them along, put them through everything that's happening in the company and then also train them because we take in people the way they are and then we train them and make them better before they start to help people out.

So they're more, their abilities to communicate are higher and yeah, it's amazing by the way to me to see like that it is so required that they have brought you as a full time, you know, in a full time position. You're there morning till afternoon. So I guess this is like the biggest need to help them with their communication in English.

Yes. And then by the way, I have been a teacher like for let's say get into four years now. I've worked with teacher abc. Yes. I taught as an English teacher and I've worked with native camp. I've worked with different organizations, I've had to consult for schools and pronunciation and you know how teachers can be great teachers when it comes to phonics and all of this. So it's been quite an experience. Right. Teaching was never something for me. I never really wanted to be a teacher because I just felt Like, I just felt, well, I can't sit down telling people, do this. This is how you should do this. I'm not someone who loves to talk a lot, so I just like to be on my own. So. So I always feel that, okay, people who want to be teachers are people who love to talk. Right. You want to put yourself out there. But, hey, I realized that it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. I found out that I just love to see that people speak well. And I see people who want to do something or they want to go for a function. They have a public speaking, and they are scared, you know, no confidence. And they are saying things like, I don't know what to say. I don't know how to go about it. Or they have what to say, but they don't know how to face the crowd. I'm like, come on, you can do this. And trust me. Growing up, I wasn't. I couldn't speak English. Okay, growing up. Yeah.

Tell me about your journey.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I grew up in the village. Okay. And of course, in the village, you can't. You can't find people. Or should I say, you can't find loads of people who can speak English. Right. So I couldn't speak English fluently. I barely could say, okay, I would say, maybe I come there yesterday. Or, you know, I mix up my very basic. Yes, basic. I don't really know how to put things together. My pronunciations were just whacked. I didn't know how to pronounce my words very well. So when I moved to the city and I was put in the school, people always laugh at me because I couldn't speak English.

So when you moved to the city?

I was 10 years old. I was 10 years old. Yes. So it was very difficult. I wouldn't want to talk in the class because I know if I say anything, people are gonna laugh at me. So I just keep things to myself. And I started to make friends with people who were better, who are doing good in the class. And then I started learning. So I was interested in working on my speaking, and, you know, I started to build that interest and worked on it and down to college. People started to call me English guru, you know, because I could speak well. I could speak well. And, yes, I later decided that, okay, I was gonna go into broadcasting, because I really love that. So, of course, after school, I was able to go to a radio school, Right? Yeah. So it was at radio school that I learned all of these. I learned pronunciations. I Learned stress placement. I learned confidence, I learned communication skills. I learned everything that has to do with speaking very well. It was in radio school. And while we're in school, I remember my teacher saying something like, some of you here actually want to become teachers. I mean, want to become broadcasters, but many of you are going to become teachers like me. And that kind of resonated with me. Yeah. Oh, beautiful. Yeah. Because while I was in that school, I had different people who would come to me, teach me this, teach me that. And it was so easy. I. I could understand these things easily more than other people. And I didn't just know why. I was wondering why. It was difficult for them, but it was quite easy for me. So come on. No problem. Sit down. I can show you.

I think because of your kind of like, you know, how you grew up and how you. You worked your way through English, right? Like, you worked your way to become fluent, to become clear. I think we can't underestimate all the processes and new connections that we make in our brain and what is simple for you. It was simple for you at that time because you've already kind of like rewired your brain around how English works for people who, like, you know, for your native language. So you kind of like figured it out. And that's why for, you know, fellow friends and non native speakers, you were like, hey, you know, it's like, that's what you need to do. Don't you get it?

Yeah. Yeah.

Beautiful. Just like pulled into it. You never wanted it, but you were pulled into it.

Exactly. I never wanted it, but I had it there. And, you know, I kept pushing, kept pushing. And I worked with the radio station for some time. I interned there. And I just thought maybe I should start consulting for schools. So I went to schools and, you know, wrote proposals to schools. And yeah, they wanted me to work with them. So I started working with some schools. Then later I decided, okay, let me do something with the online schools. And that's how I started working with Tutor abc. Even though it was a bit difficult, you know, some of these institutions online would say, oh, she's non native, so we can't take her, you know, that kind of thing and all of that.

Let's talk about that for a little bit. How did you feel? Let's talk about that for a sec. I mean, especially, you know, now, knowing all the things that you have to give. And then you were like, did it make you feel insecure or did you resist it? Like, how did that make you feel? Knowing that you know, you have so much to give.

Yeah, go for it. Sincerely, Hadar I would say I felt really bad. I felt, do they even understand what I've got to give to them? So just because I don't have an accent, I don't have an American accent or a British accent, doesn't just mean that I can't teach this thing. Give me an opportunity to do it. Just give me a chance. So I just think that people just lock up their minds thinking that this person is not capable without even giving them the opportunity. And then the people I got to teach eventually, when I eventually started working with teacher abc, most of my students will, you know, grade me five star, five star. Oh, she's so good. Oh, she's so good. She's so good. I'm non native, but they really enjoyed my classes because I had, I mean, I had different ways of doing this. Now there are people who are native speakers, but they are not teachers. They don't know how, they're not patients.

The idea that I think that people think that there is only, you know, it's so aggravating because just like there isn't one curriculum that fits all students. Right? Like one way of teaching, one way. Like one curriculum. You know, you need to do a.

Little bit of this. A little bit.

No, like every student is individual and they need different things in English. And until the industry realizes that, that it's not one size fits all. Like, you know, people need this individualized training. Same thing with the type of teacher that they need. And all students need a native teacher who, who will get them to work on the nuances of speech. Some people need people who get them, who simplify it in the way that only they can understand.

Right.

Like there is room for everyone. It's not that it's only native speakers or only non native speakers. It's not room for everyone. And the moment, yeah, the moment. Like, look at that. Like the people who said no to you were actually, you know, preventing their students from the experience of learning with someone who is like a top star, five star teacher. And also the personality and the chemistry that you have with a teacher.

Exactly, exactly. There is so much to being a teacher. It is not just you knowing how to speak language. Okay, we all agree that English language is a universal language. So how is it that the same language is bringing racism? It is a universal language. It is that language that brings people together. So how is it that it is that language that is bringing about racism? So it shouldn't be so. Absolutely, absolutely.

But it's not the language. It's like how the language is being taught in the industry. This is what we need to look, it's the system, right, that was created. The language is not racist, but the people who own it in a way, right? Like or creative industry, it's a reflection of society, right? But there is this hierarchy and it's time for us to dismantle it and it's time for us to call it out for what it is. Which is like once you discriminate against non native speaking teachers, it is racism, right? Like it is a form of exclusion and it's time to bring more equity right to them. Sim beautiful. Like and then from that then on you decided to move on and work with this company.

So funnily enough, this company is actually a multinational company. So we have other places, we have our offices and all our branches and other places like Bulgaria, Costa Rica, China, even America, we have all of that. And even before I came in, you know, I had on my, I had my interview and when, when I spoke with this person, I was like, wow, you speak amazingly. And then you are doing very well. Please would love to have you here and all of that. And you know, I came in and started working. Now when I started working with these people, what I realized was we had different misconceptions about pronunciation. So I had to like, you know, talk about these things that, okay, this is what you need to know. A lot of times people think that pronunciations are based on spellings because that's how people in this area or this part of the world are. So the moment they see a word and they try to pronounce the word the way it is spelled and I, I had to, you know, start by saying no, pronunciations are not governed by spellings.

Right?

Okay.

Right.

Definitely not in English.

Yeah, yeah, yes in English. Yes. Maybe in another language. Because. Yes, right. There is a language in my, I mean in my country that the moment you see how the word is being spelled, you can pronounce it that way. So, so I try to say, no, don't take that mindset to English language. It is not that way for English language. They work with sounds.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I think the way English is taught, you know, where they start teaching you through letters, right? Like start writing letter. You know, this gets in the, in your brain and that's what you have. Like, you know, you only have the vision. You visualize the words all the time.

And that was why when I was consulting for schools, kindergarten, what we did was Sounds. Okay, we did sounds. I told them, okay, we're not gonna start by teaching these kids letters. We will start by teaching them sounds. And if you're able to catch them young, when they grow, they're not gonna have the child. They're not gonna have the issues or the challenges that adults actually have right now. So we start with sounds. Okay, this is the sound. And when you, you know, when you blend this sound, you put this sound together. This is S and this is ah. When you put an together, they give you what S. Right? And when you put together, what do you get? Sat. Right? She sat on the table. So we do that. We tell people. Okay, we tell children. Let's work with the sounds. Okay, so while we are teaching the sounds, we are teaching the names of the letters. The sound for this is what. What is the name of the letter? Yes. So you do it together. And it's so easy for them to learn both of them. So they are learning two things at the same time. Right?

So they learn the sound first and then, oh, by the way, this sound can be represented with this letter or that letter. Yeah, Yeah, I love that. I absolutely agree with this method. You know, sometimes people ask me, do your girls speak English? And I'm like, they don't know a lot of words. They don't speak a lot of English, but they know how to make all the sounds.

Right?

Like, that was the first thing that I insisted on. You know, like, they always. They know how to make all the. The sounds of English.

So I'm.

I'm good.

How do you communicate with them? Oh, Hebrew.

Yeah.

You know, Hada, I actually love Hebrew. Yeah, Yeah, I love.

We can speak Hebrew. Okay. Sim, I love that you're here. And let's get started. Started with answering a bunch of awesome questions. Okay, so let's see. We have a few questions, so I'm taking those from my Instagram account. And by the way, for those of you who don't follow Sim, now is the time. So English with Sim, go check her out her Instagram account. And I posted this on Instagram. So I got a few questions. Okay. Yee is asking how to pronounce rubber and robber. Rubber. When the rubber meets the road and robber. Okay, so how would you explain it?

Rubber. You mean the R, U, B, B, E, R. Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, so for the rubber, you know, we have the U when you have the rub. Usually when I am teaching this, I always tell people that most times, remember, we have exceptions to these rules. Okay. But most times, when you have A word that has the U in between two consonant sounds. There are chances that it's. That has the inverted V. Exactly.

Which is like. Usually people are taking it to an U, but no, it's closer to an. Like a neutral sound. It's exactly that.

Exactly.

I call it the cup sound.

The cup sound. Beautiful. And how do I teach this? So I tell people that when you're producing the sound, you smell. Ah. Ah, Right. And when you're producing the inverted V, you don't smell. So one you're smiling, the other you're not smiling. That's the.

As in cat. Right.

Beautiful. For cats. Right. And then for the inverted V. So take note of this. Most times, right. When you have your consonant sounds in between. When you have your U. Okay. Your sound in between two consonant sounds, it has the cup sound.

Rubber.

So it's rubber, Rubber, rubber. And of course, you have the sure sound at the end. Most times when you have the, er. Okay. For the American English, and I mean for the British English, and then for American English revolution, most times it has the sure sound. So it's not going to be maybe in this part of the world, in Nigeria, you hear someone say robber. Robber. It is not. Yeah, you open your mouth, but no, you close it. Rubber. Rubber.

Right, right. And you sometimes have a tendency. You lean more towards British or American. What would you say? Because then it would determine how you pronounce that R at the end again.

Yes. So, you know, for the British pronunciation, the R is almost not there. Rubber. Rubber. With American, they have the rhotic sound.

Right.

Rubber. Rubber. You hear that? So just choose. If you want to learn the American English, focus on that. If you want to learn the British English, focus on that. Okay. And then robber. Right? Robber. The O sound. Now we have the sound which is rubber. It's not the same. Rubber and rubber. Rubber, they're not the same. Okay. But you know, at the end, well, we can say, okay, these two are together. It's at the end where they both have the sure sound. Right.

So they sound the same. These are minimal pairs. And this is why it's confusing, because it's like this one sound and what's the difference? And I would also say that, like the difference. Also, even though we do open the mouth for the rubber, then there is a slight deviation between British and American here. So the sound. And a lot of times it is associated with the British, and Americans sometimes tend to do it more like.

Ah, right.

Like the Oz and father. Robber. Robber. Yeah. So as Sin said, you know, sometimes you don't have to be speak American or speak British. But if you know that these are your two options, then choose whatever is easier for you to pronounce because you will be understood anyway.

Right?

So if you tend to make it more like an Oish sound, like raw robber, it's still great because that's how it's being pronounced. And, you know, the other side of the world, if you live in the U.S. yeah, growing.

I know that I. Growing up, I actually was learning British pronunciation. But trust me, when I started following Hadar, I liked the way she was pronouncing most of her words. So at some point I had people say, you, you are changing your pronunciation now you are using the American pronunciation. I didn't even know that that was really affecting me. Or. And all of that, I was like, okay, but do you understand what I'm saying? Am I communicating with you? Person said, yes. I said, fine.

Exactly. Exactly. Right. That's what matters.

Right.

And. And again, it's clarity over, you know, what is perceived to be the ideal of, you know, English or Standard American or received pronunciation. There is, like a diversity in the Lang language. It's not like the entire population of good speakers of English speak with Standard American or receive pronunciation in the uk. No. So there is diversity, and it's okay to bring that diversity, even if it's. It deviates from that ideal and not to undermine those who. Who are at a place that want to, you know, like, they feel that my friend Samara Bay, you know, she's been here on the show before, she said that, like, the thing about Standard American is that the placement of the vowel is where your voice is, like, it's the most energized form of that particular vowel. And this is why it's okay to strive for it, just so it serves you better as a speaker, not so you sound like someone else, because it really is. You are at your best. Your voice is at its best. There is a clear distinction between sounds, and this is why we want to go there. But at the same time, you know, clarity. Clarity is more important than accuracy. Okay, next question. We had a bunch of questions about the dark L. So how do you talk about the dark L versus the light L?

Okay, so can you give me an example? Maybe give me a word with a dark L and then.

Yeah, so let's explain to people here what is the light L and what is the dark L? And I'm also going to share, you know, a little bit about how I teach it. I have to say that this is a challenging one sometimes for people who don't have two different Ls. So a light L, for those of you watching is the. Is when the tip of the tongue touches the upper palate and it appears before a vowel. Right. Like as. As in the word light.

Yeah, yeah.

In the Lao. And then the dark L is usually the L that appears at the end of words or before another consonant.

Right.

I think someone even gave an example here. Okay, so Christina was asking about the word plan, but Christina, actually the L in plan is light.

It's light plan. Yeah, because before the vowel.

Exactly. So a lot of times people struggle just with that L at the end. Like in the word feel. Right. Like when we have that tension at the end feel. Do you feel that this is a struggle for a lot of your. Of your students?

The L. Okay, so this is actually coming as a surprise because we don't have challenges with something like this, the dark L or the light L. Okay, but then I must say that I don't have. I have not had students who had challenges with this. Sincerely. I haven't had that. The challenges I would say we've had is the R sound. Right? The R sound, Right. Yeah. Right. People have had those challenges, which.

Which tells me, by the way, a lot about the language that you speak like that. That probably there is that distinction between light L and a darker L. So if you have that in your language or something similar, let's just say, then this is not a challenge. Right? That wouldn't be a challenge. But I. I would say. To answer that question, I would say that, like, the. The main difference is that, first of all, for the light L, there is clear contact between the tip of the tongue and the upper palate.

Right. List.

Like in listen, right. You hear that nice clear sound.

And.

Right. It has that weird dark that you're anyway making. Right. Like where there is tension here in the back, and there is always this transition to it. And a little tip that I can give our audience is that when we have a word like feel, Right. Like when there is a high E, we have an extra sound there. Right? Like, can you hear it with me? Sim. Like the feel feel.

So, but people. Some people would say Phil. Phil.

Yes, exactly.

Bring the L to the tip of the tongue. We should be at the back feel, I guess.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So sometimes if someone says phil, that would not be associated as an L. And they may think that they're saying an R or something like that, you know, like, they may. They may confuse it like native speakers sometimes thinking because they don't recognize that sound as a dark L. Yeah. It's all about categories. It's really interesting. Like, you know, how do people. It's not that they don't hear you making the L, they hear it.

But what.

Like, the brain categorizes it in different places than what you. You know, where you want it to be. So what you said is exactly it. Like feel versus feel.

Feel. Yeah, yeah.

And Christina, like, you know, or for those of you who are asking about the L, we had a few more questions about it. I usually say that I divided into two. And I say this because, as I said, it's not one size fits all. And it really depends on your tendencies that, you know, are a result of your native language. So, for example, Spanish speakers or French speakers or Hebrew speakers, for example. Or if you've seen it, you know, with Nigerian speakers, then sometimes. Then, like the sound when there is only a light L. And I would tell those students to try and not, like you said, to bring it to the back, to bring the tongue to the back and not to touch the upper palate. Right. Like, not to touch the upper palate with the tongue. Right. Try to pronounce that sound without bringing the tip of the tongue. We will. My tongue is right there in the middle. Will.

Yeah.

And then I would also say to. And tell me if. If that resonates with you. I also say, tell students, because sometimes there are students who turn it into an ooh sound or an o. Right. Like Brazilian Portuguese speakers.

Right.

They may say something like people.

Right, okay.

People. Right. Putting an o sound instead. And then for you guys, I would say, or sometimes Japanese speakers, sometimes Chinese speakers. And then I would say, in this case, make sure that you bring the tip of the tongue to touch the upper palate, because otherwise it's just going to sound like an oo. So usually if they bring the tongue to touch the upper palate, there is still that ooish quality.

Will.

But then you still hear, like, a reminder of an L. Right. When you bring the tip of the tongue. Because honestly, like, you know, same. I talked to a friend of mine, and she said that she pronounces her dark L. She touches the upper palette for the dark hill. And she's. She's a Native American speaker.

Wow.

Yeah. People.

Physical, practical.

But you see, you still, like, even if you bring the tip of the tongue forward, which you just did, and you usually don't do it.

Right? I don't.

Yeah. Because I could hear the difference But I didn't confuse it with the light L because you still had that nice dark quality. Right. Because you're used to, you know, how to create that tension because you have it in your native language.

Yeah, yeah.

I love it.

It's amazing that sometimes when I hear some of the challenges that people have, it's actually a bit amazing. I'm like, oh, wow. So people have these challenges. Oh, wow. Okay. And then so I try to bring it down to Try to bring it down here too. Because even here, we also have challenges with letters, which sounds like. So someone wants to say thank you or thank you, and the person will say thank you. Right. Use the T instead of the thank you.

Right.

That's a very common challenge. So how do you. How do you go about it in giving them tips to teach how to. How to improve the th.

So a lot of languages, my language in Nigeria actually has the th sound. So it's very easy for me because we have words with a th sound, but other languages don't have. So basically when I teach that, you bring out your tongue and place it in between your upper teeth and your lower teeth. And then of course, for the soft th. Because they are two. We have the hard th and the soft th. You blow soft air. It's like you're breathing.

Right.

Very easy. Some people try to place their teeth on their tongue so hard. I say, no, it's not supposed to be hard. It's supposed to be light.

Very common mistake that the student may. They take the tongue out, but then they still take it back it against the teeth.

Yeah, yeah.

And then the air doesn't come out. Right?

Like, exactly, exactly, exactly. So I just say breathe on your, you know, breathe while your tongue is in between your upper teeth and your lower teeth. So just breathe.

Guys. I hope you're doing it with us, everyone. And how do you explain the difference between the hard and soft? The voice and the voiceless?

Yes. So I try to say that. So they are. They are a pair, right? They're like, okay, let's just say this is a brother and his sister. Okay? So there are qualities that a brother has that a sister doesn't have. All right, so the brother probably is. I mean, his voice is thicker and the sister, her voice is lighter. Right.

So which is the quality, by the way? Yeah, sister has.

Yeah, the sister is lighter and then the brother is harder or something like that. So again, you can know this when you place your hand at your vocal cord. Right?

Let's all do it together.

Let's do this. So try to produce the brother, which is harder. Okay. It's harder than the sister, which is when you place it. You hear a vibration sometime here and also here.

Right.

It's almost like a V, but it is not. Yeah. And that's why here in Nigeria, some people want to say brother. You hear someone say brav. But no, it is not the V. Okay. It's the brother. Brother. Brother. Right. Can you feel a vibration? If you can feel a vibration, type it in the comments.

Yeah. Let us know if you feel vibrations. If you hold out the sound.

Yeah. That's your vocal cord. You should feel some vibration here. Okay. And then for the sister. Alright. You're not gonna feel any vibration. It's just gonna be soft. It's smooth. So is. And by the way. Yes. I saw the sprint that Hada actually did. If you haven't seen that, please go check it out. She really helped us with that. And then she did the Right. And then the. Like that. So check those things. By the way, Hadar, every time I have classes with my students, we always have those. Pronunciation practice.

Yay.

Good. Yeah. I always make all of us watch it before we start. So I say this.

It's an amazing warm up. Like, I think it's so important, you know, people expect themselves to speak effortlessly without doing the work. But it's like you, it's. It's like workout. You can't run a marathon without warming up before. Right. Like you have to be stretches and you have to build it up every single day.

Yeah, sure.

Absolutely. So lady feels it. Of course. She does these exercises every day as well. Lady, I see you. Okay. B and S is another vibration. Andre says. Yes, Andre.

B.

Is also a voice consonant. There is vibration.

But S. No, no vibration. No.

I feel vibrations in my head.

Good.

Exactly. You feel it in your head, huh?

Yeah, but similar. Well, the S is very much. Right. Like the S is very much like the voiceless th. In terms of the feeling of it.

Exactly. Okay.

Like the sister. The S. Right?

Yeah. The S is a sister to Z. Right.

Exactly. Okay, let's see if we can answer a couple more questions.

Okay.

Genevieve is asking how do I identify my English needs? Okay. So I'm actually going to turn it to you and ask you how do you. And how do you identify your students's needs? And maybe Genevieve can understand from that. How can she do the same thing for her? And then I'll help out a little bit at the end. I'll just give my take on it.

So how do I Identify my students needs. Right. I usually have this recording. I'll let you record yourself. I have a comprehension. I'll just let you read it out for me. So there are. There are sounds that I'm looking out for in those comprehensions. So when you. In the comprehension rather. So when you. When you're done reading it or while you're reading it, I'm taking notes of the things that I am noticing. Okay.

What sounds are you intentionally looking for?

Okay. So most people cannot produce the sound here in Nigeria we interchange it. So someone wants to say apple. Apple. And the person is saying hapo apple.

They over apply it. Yeah.

Yes. So it becomes. It's like an affectation and de. Affectation. Applying a sound that is not supposed to be there. Okay.

And then when there is an H, they don't pronounce it exactly.

So you take away the H where it. Where there is an H. So for instance you want to say. You want to say something like happen, happen. It happened yesterday, it happened yesterday. You hear someone say it happened yesterday, it happened.

Or yeah, I hate it instead of I ate it or vice versa.

Yeah, beautiful. I ate it. So you are confusing me if you say I ate it. So I'm thinking you mean eight like you ate something. Right. So it is important. So I look out for these and then I look out for the R. So lots of people cannot produce the R. You hear something like rice, rice. Red, Red. Yeah, yeah, red, red. Beautiful. So I also look out for those. And then of course the th. Lots of people cannot produce that. So I already know the things I am looking out for. Okay. And then these are things that people who probably are trying to work on their pronunciations. And then now coming down to accents, there are people who already have the mother tongue accent. So when they are speaking, when you hear someone from maybe. I would say maybe from an Igbo person in Nigeria or a Hausa person. So I'm going to speak like a Hausa person now. Just watch me, my Paleo people. I just want you to know this about me. Now. That's how a typical Hausa person is going to speak. Feefal, my Paleo Fifal. Do you understand?

Yeah, yeah.

Just interchanging. And then when you hear a Yoruba person or an evil person speak. My brother. My brother. You see, you know, something like that. So I love change. So the accent is there and then it is interfering. So it is really causing a lot of, you know, distortion. I can't really get what you're saying. So the Accent is affecting me. So these people, they need special coaching. Yeah.

So what you're saying, you're working with two different people from the same country and both of them will have different needs, right? Because they have. They speak different languages, different dialects, whatever, you know, like different pronunciation needs, which is to say that, like, really, it's very, very individual. And even people who speak the same language may have different needs. So as you are listening, you are already guessing what their struggle is going to be, because you seen it, you've heard it. Sometimes it's like, you know, you share a language, so you know all of these things. And I can definitely resonate with that because I think that, you know, at the end of the day, I've worked with, you know, dozens and dozens of speakers from different languages. But ultimately, you know, if I can, I can look at a person and know exactly what their challenges are going to be. It's when they're Israeli, right? Like, if they speak Hebrew and I know, like, in and out, like, I don't even have to listen to them to tell them what they need to work on. So there is a way to generalize it, but also within it. So Genevieve, like Sim said, when she listens intentionally to sounds, what you need to do is to identify the challenges of your language. Now, I have a series. I do it for Russian speakers. I have it for Russian, Korean, Spanish, and Brazilian Portuguese. I did, like, the top pronunciation challenges. I have one coming up for Mandarin Chinese.

Oh, wow. If you can find.

Yeah, it's. And I love doing it because I love analyzing languages. If you can find. If you don't find it on my channel or for those of you who are struggling with what their pronunciation needs are yours, your pronunciation needs are. Then find a resource. Right. Because Sim already knows it by heart when she works with her students. She doesn't need a resource. But if you are a learner, find a resource that identifies the main challenges of speakers of your language. Right? Pronunciation challenges. And it's not coincidental. It's phonology. It's how the two languages fit together. Before we turned play, you know, Sim, we were talking about how you bring over some of the challenges or some of the patterns.

Right.

You mentioned that you bring over the patterns from your native language onto English. So you look for the sounds that only exist in your native language or you say the sounds. So, yes, and that's what happens. So you can get, like a real valid resource. And then you look at it and you say, okay. It seems that for people who speak My language they may struggle with, let's say R. Th. Yeah, maybe open vowel sounds. And so you get like a list and then what SIM does, right? Like she records and listens. You need to do that with yourself as well. You record a comprehension. Like you read out loud something, you speak freely, record it. And then for those of you who are self learners, if you don't have sim, then you need to consciously listen and look at that list of challenges and say, where do I struggle? Do I struggle with those five, six, seven things? And that's how you know. And it's okay that you're focusing only on like a limited number of things. And after that you will start, you know, noticing other things. Right? So like you don't work on everything with your students.

Okay, so we work. I mean if you are coming for a one on one, I know what I am working on. But when we are having a large class, I also have to know what I am working on. So sometimes we're working. Some people have challenges with listening, right? You are saying something, you can hear what the person is saying, but you cannot actually replicate what you're hearing. So we still work on that. So we work on different things actually. Okay, we work on different things, right?

And so, so you work in different things. And probably it's not like you don't work on all the sounds of English and all the, you know, all the grammar rules because you can't, you don't. You have like a limited number of hours.

You can't do everything at once, right? You can do everything at once. Yeah.

So how do you decide what's more important then what's less important?

Exactly. So because I'm working with these people, first of all, I get to know who are the people you are communicating with. So most of our customers are from India, some are from America, some are from Europe and all of that. We try to see how we can teach you things that can help you communicate with these people. Right. So we're not generalizing, okay. We're not saying it has to be this way, but we give you the basics, right? We say, okay, this is what you need to know about sounds generally. But then dealing with these kind of people, we talk about the culture, cultural differences and all of that. So this is how these people hear this and this is how you should relate or communicate with these people. Okay?

Yeah, yeah, I love that because there is so much that goes into it. It's not just pronunciation. It's like ultimately what is the end result, not just to sound Like a certain person or a certain way, but like, ultimately to truly communicate confidently. To truly.

Yeah.

And to be fluent and to feel good about yourself. So, yeah. So I think that when you analyze those things and you decide on what you want to focus on, it's okay if it's not the full list. List of what teachers want you to learn, or, you know, the full list of what English has to offer. But focus on a few things, be very, very determined and intentional about those, and then broaden your horizons. So we're gonna now move to the audience and see. Let's see, what. What do we have here? May I ask about the pronunciation of L, R, D letters? All of them together at the same word. Like, ah, world. Someone else asked about world.

Okay. World. World. Okay. So you're having the R. The L. That's why we have the dark L. Right. Ball.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is actually easier because if you put the light L, it really messes up the pronunciation because it gets you this. It makes it sound like, well would.

Well, yeah. World.

Yeah. Or. Or it ends up being word.

Would. Yes.

Right. The L and the Doctor.

Yeah.

Do you feel that world is a word that people struggle with for you, your. Your students?

Yeah. So they say something like world. World, yeah, World. Not world. World.

Right?

Yes. So it should be world. World. The art right there is there. So when you take it back, the sound, I think that's what takes the L back to the dark L. Right.

And you want to keep it there. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. So that's what happens, is there. That is there. You have to produce it. It's not.

Whoa.

It's world.

Yes, absolutely. And I think that a lot of times, if you don't give enough stuff time and space for the L and the R, right. Then it end. That ends up sounding like word. So it's like you have to give right word. Right.

The.

The D is just like only at the end after you hear those two sounds. So the. You pull the tongue in for the R or make sure it doesn't touch anything round your lips were. And then you kind of like just drop intense the root of the tongue a little bit. And then there is no more contact between the sides. Right. Like Earl.

Right.

Do you feel that? Like from the er.

Yeah, I do. Yeah.

Yeah. So there is this transition, by the way, for people who struggle with the R. You can drop the R and just go to the dark L. Yeah, not really directly, but.

Yeah, So I hear that too. Hadar. I hear people who say world, world. World.

Yeah. Like, they drop that. Like, world. Yeah.

But I think. Does it sound good? Well, well, it's.

It's more British.

World.

Right. Because there is no R right there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Were. And then there is the were.

Were.

In American English, it's just from the W to the R directly. Were.

Again, what I noticed is sometimes when you rush your words, you might not produce the words the way they should be produced. So sometimes you need to take your time and let your sounds. Let the words breathe. Okay.

Amen to that.

Sim.

Yes, absolutely. I mean, people put in so much work in their pronunciation, so they know how to make all those sounds. The R, the L, the D. And then they go too fast, not allowing all the beautiful work to come up. Right. Let the words breathe. I love it. I love it so much. Yeah. Okay. There was a question here from. Let me try and find it. Alejandro is saying, Sim. Would you recommend to keep one's native accent for authenticity? I like mine.

If you love your accents, please keep it. Okay. Except if you. So, see, I tell people that if maybe you want to take a role, you want to act a movie, and you are expected to have a certain accent. So, I mean, if you have to take a role, if you have to take a job that requires that you have a particular accent, then work on it. That requires. And remember, you have loads of accents. In America, you have loads of accents even in. I mean, in other countries, Australia, Canada. So you have to choose whichever. So. But if you can communicate effectively, you can keep your accents. If you can communicate effectively, you can keep your accent and focus on communication.

Everyone has an accent, Alejandro. So you love your accent. Like, that is the most beautiful gift you can give yourself and the people around you to show that, like, it's totally fine. And you kind of, like, you boast in the way you sound. It's so important that we love how we sound. And as him says, yes. Make sure that you are, you know, pronouncing things in a way that lands that people get what you want so you can get what you want. Like, you know, they get. So you get what you want. And I think that, like, acquiring a new accent and working on your pronunciation really does give you some tools and a skill set that you may not have had. So it's not like, sometimes people resist it, and it's not me, and it's this, and it's like, no, no. Try to welcome it and see what that does to you. Maybe it gives you a new way of confidence or a new way of Speaking or it helps you kind of like find a more balanced and present and voice. You know, that you. That you. That you're able to show up differently than how you showed up. Like, always look for ways to improve yourself to. To feel good about yourself and to speak up.

Yeah. And then one last thing I wanted to say was. Okay, I wanted to say that if you have a different accent from the native accents, you are. Sorry. I always say I'm more advantaged. Why? Because I have the opportunity to switch. It means you can speak loads of languages, so you are at advantage. So don't feel that you are disadvantaged because you have another accent. It's a plus for you. Okay?

Absolutely. Absolutely.

For you. It just means that, you know, you are flexible. You can switch. I can speak this and then later I can switch to this. Okay.

It's like you have. You have something and you choose to see it if it's an advantage or a disadvantage. But it's your choice, right? It's kind of like I have an accent. Okay. So it's a disadvantage. People don't understand you. I have an accent. You speak another language. You communicate with the world. You have this ability. Your brain is rewiring every single time you speak. So it's like, you know, it's. And when you see it as an opportunity to connect, to learn as, as. As a person who has power, right? Like when you come into a conversation, I have power because this is not my. My first language and I'm still communicating here. Then it definitely, you know, it's like what you said, it's. It's a privilege and it's an advantage.

Yes, yes, yes. Use it for your advantage.

Yes. Okay. So, Sim, my love, it was such a pleasure. I could have kept on talking to you here.

Thank you.

But yay. And like, also for the first time, I think hearing your story and your journey, it's so inspiring. And I have no doubt that you keep on inspiring your students every single day and your followers. Wait, let's remind you. You guys go check out English with Sim. You also have a YouTube channel, right? Same name.

Yeah. English with Sim. Yeah, let's just check it out. I look forward to meeting you all. Yes.

And all the links are right here in the description, so you can go ahead and click on it and let Sim know. Send her a dm. Tell her what you think. Okay, so everyone, thank you so much and thank you for being here. Everyone. Thank you, Sim, so much for.

Thank you so much and you too. Bye, everyone.

Bye, guys.