The Turning Point: Faith, Truth & Freedom w/ Kevin McCullough

So I have a really good friend. He's amazing. We've gone through so much together, years of our lives, and I feel like he does in the. In the political realm what I love to do in the home. And our heart beats with the same passion. Like, we just want to see people healed and transformed and. And stepping up. So I am so excited. I feel like we're at a turning point right now. It's become almost like a. The hashtag. And Kevin McCullough is going to be here to tell us what he's seeing. And I think this is going to be so powerful. Check this out, Kevin. I am so excited. So, first of all, everyone, if you have not gone to that kevinshow.com y' all go there now. Not now. Like, put in your notes. Make sure you go there. I want you to get as much of this guy as you can because he's a wealth of wisdom. So, like, not just intellectually, but I believe spiritually, too. I believe he sees things that other people don't see. So, Kevin, thank you so much for hanging out with me.

Hold on one second. Hannah. Let's see. I'm short on what. I owe you for that, for that. Plug in that intro.

I'll get it to you.

I promise.

I'll invoice you.

Thank you. No, it's good to see you, and it's been a long time since we've had a chat, but I'm looking forward to these next few minutes.

Yeah, it has been a minute, and I am just. It's funny because I feel like we do such different things, but we're after the same thing. Does that make sense?

No, I. I think so.

Yeah.

You mentioned Turning Point in the opening. It wasn't just Charlie's organization. It's not just a, you know, an interesting name for an organization. It is. It is something that I think has begun and you're starting to see. Just within days of his assassination, you saw Bible sales going through the roof, and nobody's purchased Bibles forever. Like, I. I have several of them sitting on the shelf in the living room, but I. I use the thing that's on here most of the time, but that's happened. And I talked to. There's about 8,000 pastors in the New York City area, and I talked to a bunch of them, and they're telling me that their youth groups are full, that you're seeing, like, even increased attendance on general worship services and other things, and even in places like New York that tend to be very, very secular. In their mindset and kind of divorced from God in many ways. They kind of view God actually don't view God as being a problem. They view. They view scripture as being a problem. So they're okay with saying, well, there may be a God, but as soon as that God begins to ask anything of anybody, then they're like, well, I'm not down with that. I'm just into spirituality. But that's kind of shifting. People are starting to say, well, where's the truth found? Because we've been told for a long time your truth, my truth. I just got to speak my truth. And what of that is actually true and reliable? And the thing that kind of Charlie embodied was that you can actually find truth if you look for it. And he was willing to win some. Lee try to point people in that direction. So it is. I think that we are at a turning point, and I think that it's going to demand that we have more of these conversations, not. Not less of them.

Oh, I love that. I love that. And truth. Like, I think we can. We confuse truth with opinion, you know, and opinions change as soon as we go through a life circumstance. Like, your opinion about parenting probably changed a lot after you had your first kid.

Changes some, I think, after every one of them, actually. Wait a minute. This doesn't work with this one. It worked with the last one. How come this one's different, right?

Is this. Is this degrading? I don't understand. Like, it's so funny. I remember someone came over to my house to deliver a meal after I had my seventh child. And not.

Can we just all have a moment of accomplishment for Hannah? I mean, seven times. I mean, six wasn't enough. Like, you just do it just to show you could. You were showing off at that point.

Seven is the number of perfection. I had to go for it.

That's it.

But. But she showed up at the house with a meal, like you do for a family that just has a new baby, and knocked at the door, and it was so loud inside that no one heard her. So she just walks in. There's a newborn baby sitting on the. On the recliner. Kids are jumping on the furniture. The music's blasting, like, 80s music blasting. We're danced in the kitchen. She's like, there's really a different vibe when you go over to someone's house who has the firstborn kid. Very different. So things change according to our life circumstances. And you just say, like, some people are like, well, this is my truth. No, it's your opinion and your opinion will judge how you operate in the circumstance. But truth is truth, and truth can. Doesn't change. And truth can be supported with evidence and truth can be validated. And I think when we get into this more relativity, where it's like, well, it depends. No, it doesn't. We need to get clear about this. And the beauty of that is truth always creates freedom. And I think that's what people really want. They don't understand freedom when you. When you live by truth as opposed to freedom when I'm creating circumstances that just make me feel better.

Well, and that's an ancient adage from scripture. You'll know the truth and the truth will set you free. There's something freeing about knowing that if I have two here and two here, that the total that I have is four, and that that doesn't change. Like, it's always, if I have two here and I put two over here, that's still four. Or if I move them over here, it's like there's some. If nothing else, we have barriers and kind of boundaries of knowledge that. That then we can safely operate within. And in terms of just freedom, there's. There's nothing better than to knowing that. I have confidence that this particular thing absolutely is what I believe it to be. Wow.

And the decisions, and I'm sure you can say this to the decisions you've made that bless you the most are those that are grounded in truth.

Correct.

You know, that. That have. Like, how I raise my kids, how I.

And some of them come very hard. Like, I've made a lot of mistakes trying to be a fledgling business a number of years ago. I mean, I've. I've. I have goofed on it big and hard, as big as it can be goofed on. And yet in all of those mishaps and bad turns and everything else, I always learned something that I wouldn't have learned otherwise, and that was always based in truth. So like you. You begin to. If God gives you enough time and. And, you know, mercy and grace, you actually can grow. Because truth not only liberates you, but it starts giving you building blocks to understand how things can be different. And I find that to be one of the things that the culture is currently looking for. How do I know what I know? Is there a God? Charlie said there was. He made a lot of people think about it. He had very deep reasons for believing it. But did it matter? Well, it did in his life. And he impacted tens of millions of young people around the world, not just in America, but even in other countries. And I think that's what people. People have compared it to, like Dr. King. And I don't think the comparisons are that strong because I don't think Dr. King had as riveting a vision for how much needed to be changed. He wanted to see civil rights become the law of the land, and they did. And we owe that. We owe him a great deal because of that. Charlie wanted to go beyond that. He wanted to see eternity unleashed for people so that they could understand what eternity was about. And the vision was, let's get rid of race altogether. Let's see people as human beings. Let's operate in kind of a different ethos than, you know, what the construction of the society had kind of told us we had to operate in. And I think that's one of the reasons why they killed him, because he just. He was. He was being too successful in how much truth he was helping people understand.

Right, right. Not knowing that what actually happened was an explosion.

Yeah.

Proportion of now people want to know even more. I mean, we know where sin abounds, grace abounds even more. Like, even when you were talking about New York and. And like, there, I think we're seeing such a disparity now of good and evil, light and dark is no longer just kind of muddled right there in the middle.

Right.

We're seeing a very clear.

Somebody turned up the contrast in the. In the picture, the blacks and whites are becoming much more distinct, less gray.

True. That's so true. And I think we're seeing more of an attack on the family than ever before. But also, like, my. My fingers are on the pulse of moms. And so I'm seeing moms rise up, and they're like, no, I'm done. I'm done. I'm done tolerating the whole confusion about gender. I'm done tolerating like. Like moral relativism. I'm done tolerating like, I'm just done. Like, I'm taking.

They got tired playing along with the suspended reality. So you want to be a good neighbor. You want a good mom on the parents council at school. You want to. You want to be a good participant in your community, and you don't want to offend and you don't. You're not looking to make enemies. You just want to be a nice person. But you've been told now for the last, you know, number of years, in order to be a nice person, you have to absolutely agree with everything that I believe and believe nothing that you Believe. And all of a sudden people are like, well, okay, I tried, like, playing along, and it. It just got exhausting. I'm just going to be what God made me to be. In many, many, many multiplying cases, people are going, well, God made me to be someone who believed in him.

Yeah, yeah. Unashamedly, unabashedly. Like, it's like you wake up and say, what is the new thing I need to acknowledge today? And we're just tired of it. I think we're now the family. And you can tell me what you're seeing in the political realm, but I'm seeing the family as rising up and saying, okay, choose today who you're going to serve. But as for me in my house, we're. We're going to. We're going to serve the Lord. We're going to, like, take our beliefs that we know to be true with capital T. We have enough evidence, we have enough support here. It's worked for me. Like, no, I'm. I'm done tolerating the illusion, and I'm. I'm raising my family in the way that they should go well.

And I think that politics lives downstream from culture. So I think that it is. It is incumbent upon the individual first to figure out their stuff. And then, as you are a component of a family, you help that family figure out its stuff. And as that family interacts in a school, in a congregation, a place of worship, in a neighborhood, in a village, in a city, in a county, in a state, like, you extend the straightening out of the stuff to each level. But if we're not doing the inventory personally first, then it doesn't. It doesn't really do any good. And you were just quoting that statement by. I believe it was Joshua in the Old Testament who said, as my house. Brandon Lake, who is a Christian artist, CCM guy, he actually sang at Charlie's funeral, has just released a song called Me and For Me and My Home. And he says, the greatest thing that I could want for this life is for every leaf and branch on this family tree to of their own accord, call him Lord.

Right?

Because we can't want it for them. We can. I do. I pray, Lord, please let. Let my kids know who you are. But at the end, they can't just inherit what I want for them and say, that's enough for me. It has to be their own and they have to own it. But I think what is interesting about the rising up is that it is. It's individual, it's. It's collective. But it starts with, and you may be someone listening or watching right now. You may be the only person in your family unit right now that is feeling that way. But if you water that, if you feed that, it'll grow and it will be contagious to the people that see its impact on you. For a long, long time in the media game, I have worked in kind of a mixed world because I've done some stuff with Christian broadcasting and a whole lot of stuff with mainstream. And there have always been people that have been on the sales team and other people that have come by and have been like, so you're the. You're the Christian guy. Like, they always kind of. I know that there's something that they're wanting to ask or there's some point they're wanting to make, if that's how they start the conversation. And it was interesting. For a period of time. I had three or four guys in the sales team that wanted to hang out all the time. Two of them were very fascinated and, I think, aspirational towards my faith. And two of them, I think, were very cynical and would ask questions to kind of drive it into a different direction. And all I knew that Jesus was telling me to do was just to answer their questions. Like, I couldn't personally get them over a finish line somewhere, but I could be who he wanted me to be. And as they saw me deal with stuff. So if we had a personal tragedy hit the family, if we had something that didn't go exactly right, if there was bad news on some horizon, I became kind of imminently aware of their eyeballs kind of just studying my habit. And I'm not saying that I passed all those tests with flying colors, but it did strike me that on some level, we are all operating kind of on a platform, kind of asking the general public the question, prove me wrong. I believe that God is the answer, the ultimate answer to everything in my life. Prove me wrong. Charlie's question, Prove me wrong. And I think that there's as much power in the engagement as there is in the resolution, because there were a lot of people that came to his table and would talk about economic theory, foreign policy, even stuff like abortion or family rights or anything like that. And they would be opposing each other when they came to the microphone. Oftentimes, they would still oppose each other when they left the microphone. But you know what happened in almost Every interaction for 13 years? Hundreds and thousands of kids per year coming to that microphone. There was never a time that Charlie was like, you're going to hell, get out of my sight.

Yeah. No judgment.

It was always, so tell me why you think that? And then he would. He would respond back with a series of questions. He would almost always prefer to get their story and understand their context, even before he let him ask the question. So they may start with something. There was. There was this one kid who was trans, transitioning from female to male, and she asked Charlie, how old should I be before I go on the hormone blockers? And he said, well, can I back up and just ask you how you arrived at the need to think that? And after a couple of minutes of explanation, he was then comfortable enough to answer the question. Say, well, I feel like that before you do that, I'd like you to do this. And one of them was get a diagnosis to make sure that you know what you think you are and what you actually are different. Because what we're finding out in the trans issue a lot across the board, is that many times that's been recommended to cover something that has nothing to do with the underlying psychological pain that they're feeling on something else. And if we address the. The actual substance that is causing the pain in their life, oftentimes that whole desire, that whole idea just becomes not just unattractive, but kind of an anathema. Like, no, I don't want to do that. Yeah, God makes a woman. I want to have kids. I want to be able to feed them someday. Cutting off my breasts is probably not a good idea.

Yeah, yeah. And. And that, like, always seeking to understand. That's what I think. Jesus showed us one story that I love. It just touches me for some reason, this one story. This father comes to Jesus for healing for his child, and he's like that. You know, he is thrown into the fire. He gets thrown into the water. He could die. And. And I think Jesus showed so much compassion. And he asked this one question. He said, how long has he been like this? And so Jesus wasn't like, oh, let me heal him. He sought to understand not just the pain of the child, but the pain of the parent. And so when you're a parent, seeing things in your children that. And you're like, that's not how it should be. I. I want. I want them better. I want them healed. I want them transformed. I want them just to be all. All that I know they could be. There's this place where Jesus can enter in and that beautiful understanding and say, well, talk with me about him. You know, we pray for miracles, but we don't pray for the Mindset to allow that miracle to take place. And some of that is like, I want to know you. I want to know you better. I want to understand you. And so I think the enemy's always been after division since day one. Let's divide the. The. The husband from the wife. Let's divide the children from the parents. Let's divide the children's. And. And so knowing that if I know the enemy's plan of division, then now I can operate in a mindset of unity and believe that God's design is. Is a blessing. I think this happens in the family. I think it happens in. In the world. Like, if we're always at each other and saying, here's why you're wrong. We're not really seeking to understand. Even when we look and we're like that ludicrous, you know, we can still say, talk with me about it. Just like you said, Charlie Kirk was always, well, let's talk about it.

Yeah. You know, one of the reasons I. I went into the field that I went into was because I believed long before I ever heard the name Charlie Kirk, 20 years before I ever knew anything about Charlie, I. I believed that if you could talk to people that disagreed with you, it became harder for you to hate each other.

Oh, so true. So true.

And if you can. If you can keep conversation going, it's possible to love one another.

Yeah.

But what Charlie said was absolutely true. If you stop talking to each other, only bad things happen.

Yeah.

So to your point, husband and wife stop talking to each other, their marriage is over. Even if they live in the same house, I guess conceivably could sleep in the same bed, go through life kind of doing what they do. But if you're. If you can't talk to one another, if you don't have the ability to touch deep into the inner part where only that other person knows and discuss what's there, you're on the short road to the end. And the idea is, if you keep the conversation going, same things happen with, by the way, countries. If countries stop talking to each other, they go to war. You know, if in. In the political activist realm, for the longest time, people that were on the kind of lgbtq, trans, whatever, fill in the blank Alphabet soup down there, thought they could not talk to me because I believed in the biblical idea of how marriage was built. But any of them that ever did always came away from that conversation going, wow, I had no idea that he was actually kind and didn't hate me and all the rest of that. And in fact, it was interesting. On the day that Oberfeld came down from the Supreme Court, I had been booked at Fox. Megyn Kelly was hosting in the afternoon on Fox. I was there to do a hit on some other story. And the. And the case comes down, and they dismissed all the guests that had been scheduled, but they kept me. And they said, megan wants to get your perspective on the Oberfell case. And they brought in a guy that I'd been paired with for a long, long time. Gay man, married to his partner in New York City. And we didn't agree on anything politically.

Yeah.

And we get in, and Megan goes, okay, guys, the case has been handed down. Gay marriage is now the law of the land. How does this impact this debate? And she went to the other guy, and he. He kind of said, well, you know, now we're going to finally be recognized and be seen. And. And I kind of. That hurt my heart because I was like, nobody should be not seen just because we disagree with each other.

Right.

So I thought, okay, I'm going to pray for him more. As the days go by, she comes to me and I said, megan, here's the thing. And I think that I really do speak clearly for Christians on this. Nothing's changed. Nothing's changed by this Supreme Court case. The court can say what it wants to. But if we believe that God's plan is still best for us and for our culture and society, then the most loving thing we can do is keep telling people about that and keep saying, hey, give it a try. You know, to quote Trump from the 2020 election, what do you have to lose? You know, there's. There's not a ton of stuff going, great, let's try this. But God's plan is worth believing in, whether the Supreme Court says it's right or not. And when we were done and we were walking out, he turns to me, goes, kev, I had no idea that that's what you were going to say, he said. But it made a lot more sense than what I said.

And I said, that's.

That's just God working in the moment. But we have to be in alignment with Him. We have to be comfortable with understanding who he's made us to be. And if we want to step up, we have to actually speak when given the opportunity to. My pastor talks a lot about, it's great to live the example of the gospel, but every person that is a Christian at some point in time needs to speak the gospel. It may be, what'd you do this weekend? Oh, well, I spent some time at church. Oh, what'd you do that for? There's. There's an opportunity. Why did I do it? What difference does he make in my life? And I think what Charlie Kirk has given everybody the permission to do is just to be okay with kind of leaning in, in that direction. And that's incumbent upon those of us that know Jesus to be more welcoming and to be more assertive and to be more encouraging to say, hey, come on, get in the car, go with me. You know, that's, that's on us.

And, and honestly, we're called to be light in a dark world. So at the very beginning of this, we talked about how we're, you're. There's been a turn up of the contrast. We're seeing dark, we're seeing light, we're seeing good, we're seeing evil. And I. And that is, I think, not only like part of the whole plan, but it's also the enemy's plan to create divisiveness. Whether you're talking about countries or, or what's happening in the government or what's happening in the family, there's a turning up of the contrast. And I believe that it's so tempting to say I'm right and everyone needs to believe me, but we're, we're drawn to God through love and compassion. So I think what you're talking about is keeping the, the communication open, is leaning in, is, is being the light everywhere you go, not to combat the darkness, but as soon as you enter into the darkness, the darkness has to flee. We don't have to get so concentrated on, on driving out as much as turning up, you know, turning up the light. I went to the. I had an ear infection, had to go to the doctor yesterday. But it's so funny, I walked in there and that the nurse who was working with me, we just started having a conversation and her adult child was addicted to heroin and living on the streets. And right there we got to minister and we had church. And I believe that's what God is saying is it's not about, like, building the church, is about being the church. And just like you said, you can't fix the world till you can fix your world. And so, I mean, I'm just sensing like, that's what this whole thing.

Well, in reality, our job isn't even to fix the world. And in, in my vein of application, we have at times, I think, put the cart before the horse. And let me be very clear about what I mean by this. I'm not saying that you don't speak up on the great moral questions of the day. It's unquestionably murderous to kill unborn children in the womb, especially when they're just inches from life late term especially. That's evil. We are to speak against evil. But speaking against evil doesn't mean that I necessarily don't care about those who are tempted to do evil and that at times I need to even be a bridge to them in ways that maybe other people that don't have Jesus in their, in their life couldn't bring themselves to. So the, in the contrast being more well defined, in the grays being kind of eliminated, the light shines brighter. And every time you turn a light on in a dark room, everything, all the darkness flees.

It has to flee.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean that all the rest of the New Testament isn't true too. And so in how we love, in how we communicate. And this is what I was so troubled by in Charlie's death that you had, you had prominent, some African American pastors that got in their pulpits and they said, Charlie was a man of God. He believed that race was a social construct, he wanted all men and women to know their worth before God, et cetera, et cetera. Very accurate to the way Charlie viewed the world. And then you had others that didn't know almost anything about him that got up and said, because he had said some hard truths about Supreme Court Justice Kahtani Brown Jackson, because he had said some difficult things about Michelle Obama and a handful of other isolated things, that he was a racist and a white supremacist. And I'm really sad to report this. I actually saw one of these guys on Instagram and I knew that he was on a staff of a major well known church. If I said the name of it, people would know it immediately out of the nation's capital. Capital. And I reached out and I sent him an email and I sent him a direct message on Instagram and I put the clip in of what he had said. And I said, bro, is this you? And I said, because here's what we need to understand. You're responsible for what you say in this clip. I'm responsible for what I say. And we're going to spend eternity you and I are going to spend. If we are both believing that Jesus is the only pathway to heaven, then you and I are going to spend eternity with Charlie Kirk. And to say these things and to know that that's going to be the reality I Mean, I don't know, maybe people compartmentalize and they say, well, I can just get away with saying whatever I want to here, because it's just, you know, who's going to hold me accountable or what difference is it going to make? But I kind of think that if we are living on mission in what God made us to do, then we should already be on mission for eternity. So I should already be thinking about the eternal impact of my interactions with the cashier and the gas pump attendant, because who knows, maybe I'm the guy that says, hey, Jesus loves you. And it so shatters their framework of thinking that they accept him the next time that they are, you know, that it's brought before them. But at some point in time, the, the believers, it becomes more on us. The onus, onus on us is on us because we have the light. And if we're not doing it effectively and winsomely, which is what Charlie Kirk's whole thing was. I'm sure most of the people watching at least heard about what Van Jones said after Charlie Kirk passed away. Van Jones, Democrat, does not agree with Charlie on anything on cnn. And they were, to use his term, they were beefing the whole week that Charlie was about to go out to Arizona and they were beefing offline and they were beefing online. And at some point Charlie just sends him a message and he goes, hey, we can agree, disagree, we can disagree agreeably. Come on my show, let's talk about it. And I'll be a gentleman, I know you will be as well. These were all things that Charlie said. And so after about three or four days of everybody going, charlie, Kirk, Satan, he's the devil. He's the worst Van Jones makes. He goes, guys, that's not what Charlie was. He was engaging me, the guy who was his hostile opponent, even up to the day that he died. And I want that to be the legacy of all of us that have the truth in our heart. We should be the ones that are blazing that path with the hope that only the gospel gives us.

Only the gospel, that, that, that kind of hope. I tell you, I don't know what I'd do without it. So we're, we're wrapping up here, but I wanna, I always like to give someone who's listening something very practical. And I think there's a lot of people right now who are scared. They're, they're scared of what they're seeing in politics. They're scared as much as we see light, we see dark. And it can get Especially for mom, who is dealing with Mom Brain, who has everything on her. She can feel like this is scary.

Like, especially times seven.

Yeah, right. What would you say to that person who's like, when I turn on anything, when I. When I scroll, when I. When I see what's going on in the world, it can be very disheartening and it can be very discouraging. What would you tell them?

Well, first of all, you're not nuts. Everybody feels it. Everybody sees it. We were scheduled to have a rally. Not a rally, a town hall meeting here in New York three weeks after Charlie Kirk's death to discuss the mayor's race here in the city, which involves an Islamist Marxist, Zoran Mamdani, who's running for mayor, who literally believes that globalize the Intifada is a fine thing to say and doesn't believe that it means wipe out every Jew that's on the planet. And New York happens to be the largest Jewish city on planet Earth. So as you can, as you can tell, the boiling pot that New York City always is, it's not calmed down since then, but I had two of the eight panelists that were going to be on the town hall say, can we convert this to a. To a zoom meeting? Because I would rather not come to a college campus and have, you know, someone with the potential to take me out like Charlie Kirk. And I think God works in mysterious ways and great ways. And we ended up. The room we were going to have it in would only seat 180 people. And we were going to video it and send it out, but we. We ended up being able to video it and send it out, but we had 1400 people register for the zoom access, and then we put it on radio at the same time. So it actually ended up reaching more people by doing it. But I was kind of like. I was kind of annoyed. I was kind of like, no, don't, don't. Don't shrink back. This isn't the time for those of us with the truth to shrink back. And it is understandable to be afraid. But I will say this. My pastor just finished up a great study in second Timothy. And Paul tells Timothy late in the book, God has not given you a spirit of fear, but a spirit of love and of power and of a sound mind. Now, if you think about the order in which he says those things, Love. We've been talking about keeping the conversation going and loving those that disagree with us. Power. I don't have to be weak. I don't have to be I can be confident, I can have strength knowing that the truth is the truth and of a sound mind. In other words, God's got it. I don't have to worry about it. Those are the things that God gives us. Where do things come from that aren't those things? Not from God? They're from the other end of the universe. So my favorite life verse, and I put this on anytime I sign a book or just write a letter to somebody or whatever, I always put this in the signature. But it's Psalm 115,3. And if you're watching Hannah's podcast today and you're saying, oh, man, I want to have that confidence. I want to know for a fact that this is the thing that I'm supposed to do. Let these words encourage you. People come from two camps. Some people believe that there's a big God and He's sovereign and mankind is small in the overall plan of the universe. There's other people that believe mankind is big and God is small. He fits in their pocket. He's kind of convenient. They take him out when they want to feel good, they put him away when they want to go do what they want to do, etc. Be a big God, small man person today, because that's what. That's what scripture actually teaches. But we find that best illustrated in a verse in the book of Psalms, Psalm 115, verse 3, that just says these words. And we know this to be true. Our God is in heaven and does what pleases Him. Now, if you're really worried about vanity, you may say, well, that just means God can do whatever he wants. No, it's in context of all the promises of what God says about himself. So he loves his creation. He wants to see good things come about. So you can trust that if he is only allowing that which is in accordance with his will, with what he is pleased with, then you can trust that. So take that as that confidence today that we know God is in heaven. The throne is not empty. He is not absent. He is not somehow caught by surprise by what's going on around us. There is. There is absolute certainty and understanding that the God of the universe who made you and me and Hannah and everybody else, that he knows exactly. He knew the day that Charlie Kirk was going to be shot. He knew that he was going to be shot. He knew that people were going to turn to him in the aftermath. He knows what you are dealing with right now. And most importantly of all, he wants you to know him. So keep the conversation going. Keep Talking to him. Keep reaching out to him. Because he is not void. He's not absent and he's not uncaring. He's not apathetic. He cares about you. He cares about your. Your best interest, your long term goals, your life, your purpose. He's actually put within your DNA. This is one of the reasons why the trans thing is so bad as well. It's mankind's attempt to try to force God's creation into something other than what God made it to be. And God put within your cells, within your brain, within your heart, soul, spirit, the whole body. Because we are not subparts of a being, we are all of it, all the time. But he put within that a distinct and defined purpose that only you have the ability to fulfill. And you can only fulfill it by walking with him best, by walking with him closest. So the more you know that God loves you, the more you trust in him. The more you seek him, the more he reveals what that purpose is and how you were. You were uniquely designed. Hannah was made to have seven kids. Kevin wasn't. Kevin wasn't made to have any kids. But I'm. I'm grateful to be the father of four. And that's what God made me to be. So whatever you're thinking about as you listen or hear this conversation with us today, I just want you to keep that in mind. Because that's what you're here for, friend. You're here for something that God made you uniquely designed to be here for.

Kevin, you're amazing. I'm so grateful for you in my life. And guys, this is one thing I know to be true. In the word of God, it says, walk with the wise. You, you become wise. One reason I love Kevin so much is he's so much smarter than me.

I don't know about.

You are smarter than you and your life. Walk with the wise, you become wise. That Kevin show dot com. You want to know him, you want to be in his world. Kevin, thank you so much.

Thank you, Hannah. God bless you.

Stay cool, my man.