#224 - How to make MORE sales (faster) from your email list - with Kennedy from Email Marketing Heroes

Whatever you want to do in your business, whether you want to get more sales, more appointments, more likes, more follows, or you just want to have a bigger database to run advertising to. Whatever you want to do. It all starts with a core of the email list.

Hey. Hey lovely, it is Kate here from hello Funnels and welcome to another very special episode of the Doing It Online podcast. And that is another guest episode. As you know, we do not have many guests on this show, so this is pretty special. And today I wanted to introduce you to a different of mine, Kennedy from Email Marketing Heroes. Some of you may already be familiar with him. He's a email marketing genius and also one of the brains behind the Countdown Hero Countdown timer. So obviously he loves funnels, he loves automation, he loves creating amazing high converting emails and he is actually a genius when it comes to really simple actionable strategies that you can go away implement and that are going to help you to make more sales more quickly from your email list. And he shares some absolute golden nuggets in this episode. So I'm so excited to introduce him to you to share him with you. So make sure you are sitting down somewhere comfortable so you can write all this down. Introducing the amazing Kennedy.

Welcome Kennedy. Thank you so much for joining me. It's so awesome to have you on my podcast this time.

Hiya Kate. Lovely to see you. It's weird because actually we've hung out. You're one of the few people I think I've hung out with more in real life than I have online.

Oh, that's actually quite a special.

Isn't that weird in this online world we live in. But we've been in Florida, Puerto Rico, like we've been in a few different places.

Yeah. And that's. Neither of us are from either of those places. So.

Yeah.

So backstory for everyone is we were in a Mastermind together. So that's why we've been in such lovely, interesting places. And from that I think found a, you know, a bit of common nerdery around email marketing and things like that. And I would say that Kennedy being from a business called Email Email Marketing Heroes, you are one of my favorite email marketing experts and that's why I wanted to bring you on today and talk about all things email marketing and in particular email marketing right now because it's sort of, I don't know how you feel, but I feel like email marketing has been, this is one of the foundations of online business and a lot of things have stood the test of time but also a lot of things have been changing, I think, particularly in the last year, one to two years, there's been some pretty big shifts. So you're definitely sort of in there, finger on the pulse, paying way more attention than I am to a lot of these things. So I am very excited to kind of pick your brain today on behalf of everybody who's listening and get out all of the juicy slash, nerdy slash, possibly slightly terrifying. I don't know what is stuff that.

We will find here, but we'll see. Maybe, maybe.

So to kick this off, I'm going to start with a pretty general, broad question, which is as far as marketing tools go right now, 2024, how important do you think email marketing is for an online business?

Yeah, and it sounds like a really loaded question. But the thing is, if you look at all the people who you admire in the online space or in the offline space, one of the things I was always jealous of is people who like, can just launch a new podcast or a YouTube channel, or they can do a challenge, or they can launch a new anything and suddenly have a massive audience or a number one podcast, or they sell out that launch or they promote for that affiliate or whatever and they just smash it every time. The thing that they've all got in common, regardless of what their primary social channel is, some of those people are on YouTube, others are on Pinterest, some of them are on Instagram or whatever. But they've all got a solid grounding of an email list that they could, which is a database, a list of human beings who have actively said, yes, send me your information, I've got a problem and I want you to help me solve it. Which essentially, that's what our email lists are, right? There's a bunch of people who go, hey, they've walked into your little shop or your front room of your lounge and gone, hey, I think I've heard that you can solve this problem for me. Can I stick around and soak up your knowledge and get some direction with this? And so whatever it is that you're doing, whatever you want to do in your business, whether you want to get more sales, more appointments, more likes, more follows, or you just want to have a bigger database to run advertising to, whatever you want to do, it all starts with a core of an email list. That's why all of these other platforms also feed that email list. People are always moving people from their YouTube, from their, their Pinterest, from their, their Instagram, their Facebook whatever, to their email list, because that's a database of Actual human beings. And I mean, think about it as well, to sign up to any one of those platforms, to sign up to anything these days, canva, anything, you need an email address. The thing that all has in common is this one piece of owned data, which is more important than ever. And because we all now, of course, read our emails on our phones, we now need to start thinking of our emails as a social channel. We need to start thinking about our emails as this channel which people are reading on their phones. Don't think anymore. And this is a big mindset shift for a lot of people when I tell them is don't think about this as the person who's going to come into the office that morning, you know, took their chair in and open their outlook and read their emails of the day and go and filter them and folder them. That's not what happens. Think about your own behavior. That's not how we look at our emails anymore. We look at our emails the same way as we scroll through the Instagram feed. And so it's more important than ever because algorithmic changes. You know what's hot right now? Is it going to be real? Is it going to be shorter? Is it going to be this other thing? Email doesn't change what happens in the emails. We definitely want to change that messaging. But more important than ever, it's still that one thing that powers everything else in a business. Whatever you're trying to do.

Yeah, definitely. And I think what you're saying about how people like how it's a bit more social or a bit more casual, like, I know with my end, it's a terrible habit. But first thing I do in the morning as I jump on my phone, check Instagram and then I check my email. Like I check them like they're the same kind of thing. And I used to check Facebook. I don't do that anymore now. So that like those platforms are changing, but email has remained this entire time as a terrible habit. First thing in the morning and sometimes just before I go to bed as well. So probably why I have to take melatonin to get sleep. Anyway, that's not. That's another story for another day Therapy now. Kay. Yes. Yes. So I'll go get the couch and lie down. So email's super important. But what would you say, like you started hinting at it. What would you say you're seeing the shifts being, given that we are still using email and that it is kind of coming back into focus a little bit as people are realizing social media is not Quite as reliable as other platforms. What are you seeing that's working better now than maybe has previously?

Yeah, I think what I've been doing recently is I've been talking to a lot of both clients who've recently bought from us and I've also been speaking to a bunch of people who are great prospective clients who haven't bought, just to find out what's really important to them now. So what I'm going to share with you is stuff I've learned from not just looking at the data of what we're seeing with us, but also with all of our clients and what they're seeing, but also from actually talking to human beings and sort of bringing that stuff together and hopefully that'll give us a better picture. So I would say one thing, there's a bunch of things that are changing. I think one of the things that we really need today more than ever is to realize that people are so distracted and overwhelmed because, I mean, when they're making TV shows now, the producers are looking to make television shows like Netflix shows for two screens. Is it two screen ready? And what they mean by that is no one is sitting down like we used to and watching tv, where the TV is on, we're watching that thing. But we're also doing with our phones in our hands, there are two screens all the time. Which means they are changing the way that they have to structure television shows so that they can keep an audience while the audience is not 100% focused. Now think about what that really, really means for us when we're doing our email. So when you're getting people on your email list, there's a bunch of things we need to do. One of them is we need to deepen the relationship that we have with those people. I've been thinking about this a lot. There are some people you receive an email from and it doesn't matter what the subject line is. You're opening the email, Right? If I get an email which comes from my mum, even if she forgets to put the subject line in, which is highly likely because she's not very technical, what we have to do is we have to work on ways of deepening the relationship so that when our name lands into that email inbox, they go, oh, I'm going to open that email in spite of the subject line. So I'm saying subject lines are important. Ish. But they're not as important as what is the emotional reaction that somebody has when they see your name. There are some people when their name drops in your email inbox because you read left to right, the first thing you see left is the name, not the subject line. And how do you feel? There are some people, when that email comes in you go.

Like the bank or you know, that dodgy marketer who's listed on or whatever. There are some people like ah, do I, my accountant, oh, now what have I got to pay? You know, that stuff. And there are some people when their email coming, you go, this is going to be fun or this is going to be great or this will be valuable. I'm going to like this. So and so how do we deepen that relationship? There's a bunch, I want to make sure this is really super practical because the email marketing heroes are like it's, it's not. We, we don't do theory. And this is the thing I keep saying, people keep telling me is we don't do theory. We do. That's great. It's an observation we've made. How do we make it really practical? So here's a bunch of things that we are doing in our campaigns, in our clients campaigns and teaching inside of our email hero blueprint. One of them is to really focus on this deepening of relationship by. There's going to be two things. One is something I call the page turner technique and it's really simple and it might sound like it might be a bit technical actually it's simpler than you might think and I'm not going to go into the technicals of it because it's gonna be different every platform but believe me, it's pretty simple. And that is, you've got, you've probably got a welcome sequence. That sequence when somebody joins your email list for the first time, you're going to have a bunch of emails, 1, 2, 3, 4 emails, maybe 6 emails that somebody gets to welcome into your world to give you a bit of orientation to introduce your core concepts and your personality. It might have like a GIF in of you in it or you know, whatever it is that you've got in that. And we've had that for years. There's one we teach called the getting to know you sequence. It's a four email sequence. Day one, day two, day three, day four. The thing we added to it, there's two things we've added to it. The first one is this page turner technique and what that means is at the end of the email, end of email one, when you've done whatever email one's supposed to do and you want to open a loop for tomorrow so you get more people reading tomorrow's email. Of course, that's a great idea in your first four emails, right? You can't do that. Add in flight them. I mean, some people can and they're really clever. I'm not one of those, like, I can't think about what tomorrow's email is going to be because I'm just pleased that I came with an idea for today's email, right? But in those four pre written automated emails, I can say, hey, and tomorrow I'm going to show you the three ways to significantly double your email open rate. Watch out for tomorrow's email. And that's what I've done forever. Then tomorrow they'll get an email that tells them how to do that. But the thing we've added in order to deepen and speed up the depth of relationships is this next line, and this is brand new. And this is to, to say, don't want to wait till tomorrow. Click here to get tomorrow's email now. And then I've added some personality around that, which is like underneath it I put like, did I just invent time travel? And when they click on that link, like when they click on the link, it goes to like a little gif of the DeLorean, you know, like that kind of, that kind of thing. And then they can get tomorrow's email straight away delivered and now they're binging and then they click on. And then at the end of that email, guess what it says. Hey, in tomorrow's email, I'm going to show you the six phase launch sequence that made me a million dollars in the last 12 months. Don't want to wait till tomorrow. Click here to get it. They click on that link and it's going to be another funny gift, like of a Doctor who thing or another. You know, I was thinking about doing have you seen Hot Tub Time Machine? I was thinking about doing something just a different funny time travel gift after each one. But that's of course the humorous gifts, just my humor and being daft. But that's the idea is that they get to keep consuming and deepen that relationship and they get to do it at their pace. You're not dictating, I'm going to email you every hour. Or can you imagine if you send somebody four emails in six minutes? Like, they'd probably be pretty upset.

Haven't tried it, but I think they would be annoyed yet.

I would test it, but I think I'll be upset. So yeah, that's, that's a really strong technique. I call the page turn where they get to choose to turn the page and read tomorrow's email today.

That's really cool. I like that and I like the, I mean just speculating but I wonder if as far as like the Google and Gmail algorithm and things like that for them to see that they're opening multiple emails from you in a short period of time that probably is also flagging that like hey, this person's someone we're going to pay attention to.

And there was an additional email in that sequence just on that topic of getting Gmail's attention and making sure that they like you is I've got the email 1, 2, 3 and 4. There's actually an email 1B which sort of goes out like an hour later which asks for reply. Because if someone replies to one of your emails, Gmail gets very excited about that. It's like, oh, this person's obviously very attractive. So we do that one as well. So it's, it's four days but it's, it's actually five emails but it has a very different vibe to it. Actually it reminds me of something we were talking about just before we started recording here, which was I've actually changed the layout of our welcome sequence to make it look like a lot more like those newsletter style emails back in the day. Do you remember when it was like everyone's emails was like different sections, the little sub headlines and, and all this sort of stuff. It looked like a like the school newsletter. Right?

My first business was a newsletter. This is 2007 like it? That's all it was. It didn't have a website, it was just a newsletter. So feeling very nostalgic for the newsletters that I'm seeing come through now.

It's amazing. It is amazing. And you're seeing these big ones like Morning Brew and all these things like go absolutely huge. And so looking at those trends and going okay, well that's what people are making really significant sways with. And it doesn't look as personal, it doesn't look as like a friend sending it to a friend. It's about Ziggy. When people are zagging, it's about doing the opposite. So really looking at okay, that's what's working right now. So. So our new welcome sequence with this page turner technique in is much more laid out like you know, section one, section two, section three. Here's the three things I want you to do and do you want to get tomorrow's email now? I mean the of my emails are not like that there is an exception to that, which I think you could make, which we coached a client through, which we can talk about in a bit, if you like. But so again, just really going in with that trend of that newsletter feel, where it can have a little graphic along the top, like a banner or something like that if you want. We actually don't have the banner part. We have like a little bit of text and that and then some things in boxes. But again, you can really make it look more newslettery than personal emailing.

Yeah. And how do you find that? Like, have you seen any numbers yet or. It's still too early to see whether or not people are responding any differently.

I mean, to be fair and just be transparent with everyone, that is a brand new thing that I don't have any data on. But I wanted to just make sure you know what we're doing right now. So that's more of a like, here's what we're doing right now thing than a test thing. I have used the page turner thing in previous campaigns and it works very, very well because people who are accelerating their relationship with you by their own choice are obviously more interested, they're more keen, they're more immersed in you and your message and wanting to go on that journey. So if that fifth email comes along and it's an offer, there's a much higher conversion rate when it gets to that point.

Yeah, I love, I love that idea so much. And I think one of the things that, you know, I'm seeing with our emails and with clients and stuff as well is that whether it's the fact that people are just getting so many different things that it's hard to keep their attention for long periods of time, or whether it's as people are just a bit more distrustful that people are finding that like, maybe they used to have a conversion rate of maybe like three to seven days or something for an offer and now it's getting pushed out. It's 14 days, it's 21. It's like things are getting longer and longer and when things do go out that sort of long length of time, people lose interest, people disappear, People like so to do anything that can speed things up and can deepen that relationship, I think that's so clever.

Think about something else as well. I think one of the other reasons I think it works so well is because of exactly what you've just said. And I haven't considered this as a reason that it might work so well in past campaigns at least, is like you say There's a lot of people in their inbox. But if you are able to speed up the relationship with somebody at the moment they join your email list first. Remember that when. When someone joins your email list, that's the point. They're the most interested in you that they will ever be. You're the most attractive personality in their inbox. And then that just goes down over time, basically. Unless you can, like, reset that and. And bring things up by having them buy and some other psychological things you can do to do that. But you're basically the most important to them at that point. So it's. If at the point of joining your email list, you give them the opportunity to see more of your emails at that point, and it's by their choice, not by you pushing on them, then I think that's a really good thing. Because at that pinnacle time when you are most important, before they sign up to somebody else's email list tomorrow.

Yeah, because everyone's a goldfish. Like, every time I open up my inbox, I'm like, who's this person? Who's this person? Sure, most of them I subscribe to, because I'm pretty chronic at doing that. But when you don't even remember the fact that this could be someone I subscribed to two weeks ago, if they're not sending stuff that's frequent enough or engaging enough, then they just don't stick.

One of the biggest reasons that people see a drop in sales in their email marketing is because they don't send emails often enough, because it means people forget who they are. So they go open your emails thinking, how do they get on this person's list? And their attitude is already negative. But if you don't give them a chance to forget who you are, which means you need to be emailing at least three times a week. Anything less than that means you have a very high chance that people are forgetting who you are. Another great thing to do that we're about to test. We haven't launched this yet, but it's all done and recorded. Is having, like, a secret podcast so that people. When it doesn't. It could be a video podcast, could be an audio podcast, it could be whatever you want, a series of videos. But another medium by which, when people first join your email list, they get to experience you. They get to build that trust by hearing your voice, seeing your face or something like. Like that. So is there another way you can do. You can do that? And that sort of leads in that whole idea of variety. Like, people need Variety. Like for example, if you show up to announce your opening the doors to your coaching program again or your course or your program, whatever. And every time you do that, you do it with a wait list launch. It's not going to be very long until the subscribers in your list are going to become blind and deaf to that. So what you want to do instead is make sure that you have a bunch of different ways of rolling out that reopening again. So yes, you might have done a waitlist launch last time, but this time you could do a challenge or a video series. Because what you need to do is we need to be resetting people's attention. We don't need to just be getting their attention and keeping it. We need to show them this is different. You should pay attention this time. And until we reset their attention, we don't have their attention. So we can't even get our sales messaging that we've worked so damn hard on into their minds. We can't do understand because we haven't even got their attention in the first place.

Yeah, no, love that. So I wanted to ask a couple more questions because we kind of touched on a couple of things, but I know you have some stronger opinions on different types of email marketing and the do's and the don'ts. So I wanted to do a bit of a rapid fire, see how you go. So first of all, do you think there is a magic number? I'm saying magic number here because I couldn't think of a better term, but a number of people you need to have on your email list that is like the goal for when you're going to start being able to make real money.

Yeah, I think, I think for each of us there probably is a magic number. I realized the cliche answer would be no. You know, one human is a human. And for example, we've got a client called Sheila from London and she's a coach and she had 72 people on her email list. She decided to launch use one of our email campaigns to launch a mastermind and sold it out to 72 people. It was like a, you know, a good five figure investment per person, you know, great. But I think it really comes down to just looking at the economics, looking at the numbers of your offer. So and looking at how much you actually want to earn and how much you want to earn is a thing I have a real B in my bonnet about because why do you want to earn that number? People are like, oh, I want a seven figure business. I'm like, do you like, do you really want, like, why do you want a seven figure business? What is, what is driving that? Because honestly, seven figure business means nothing, right? You know, as people who run seven figure businesses, like, that's not the goal. What we want to do from that, whether that's how much money we want to take home personally for our families, or the kind of vacations and holidays we want to take, or how much you want to invest in our retirement or support our extended family with, or the things you want to do or the amount of people we want to impact or how we want to do. Like, what is it you actually want to do? Are you trying to replace an existing income that you already have and you want to get out of that for whatever reason? Or do you want to just have an extra X amount per month to add on to your income for extra fun money? Like choose your private number. And nobody else needs to even give a toss about what a number is. I don't care if it's $500 extra a month or $500,000 a month. Your number doesn't matter to me. My number matters to me. Your number matters to uk. Everybody's number matters to them. Please, and this is more like an inspirational point as much as a marketing point is look at what that number of how many you of what you need to sell to hit that number. And then please don't work any harder than that. Because the reason we got into this is to have more freedom and more choice. Like my number one motto is choice.

You mean don't keep moving the goalposts and making things harder and harder as you get to them.

You can, because you might, you might arrive at, I wanted to make an extra two grand a month on the side as well as my job. Great. When you get to that, you might go, oh, this is good. If I did this, I can maybe make it five grand. Yes. You get to choose a different destination once you get to the destination, but get the first destination first and go, this is what I want it to be. So, and this sort of comes back to what should that magic number be? Well, you need to look at the numbers if you want to make an extra 10. Let's just make the numbers easy because my maths is awful and horrible. If you want to make ten grand a month, there's a bunch of ways you can reach 10 grand a month. You could sell one thing for 10 grand. And if you've got a 1% conversion every month, so 1% of your list is buying a thing at 10 grand. You only need 100 people on your email list if you believe you can get to a 1% conversion. So this idea of I need a list of this size is only true if you know why you need a list of that size. So like I said, we've got clients who've got less than 100 email subscribers who are making beautiful six figure incomes that satisfies their life and allows them to do the things they want to do. We've got other clients who are like unsatisfied at doing a million dollars a month. Right? So it really, really does matter. It matters what you want and how you want to do it and what your conversion rate of that thing is. And then what's really nice when you know those numbers, you get to make decisions. So if I'm like, I've got a thing that's 10 grand and I want to make 10 grand a month, great. What am I willing to do to make a 10 grand sale? Am I willing to get on a sales call? No. Okay, so how else can I sell a ten grand thing? Do I want to get somebody else in the sales call and give away some of that because of commission, like, from that? Everything is downstream of knowing actually why you have your number. Let's please, please not buy into, I need a six figure business over seven figure business. That is somebody else's agenda. Probably from a sales page you've seen somebody put up, probably, you know, probably me. Because that's a promise that people think they want. But the truth is it's not really what most of us need.

And I think it's so much more impactful and probably more motivating and more useful to have a number that when you go, all right, I want to earn $263,055, or, you know, because you know that that number equals this. Like that number equals going on the holidays. I want, you know, living in the house that I want, driving the car that I want, working hard, like, whatever, you know, and that is definitely more powerful than like sticking your finger in the air and going, I want to earn a million dollars. But that has zero connection to actually me as a human being.

Because that's just a dream. It's not a goal. Isn't it? Like, I want to make a million dollars. I think whenever anybody ever says, I want to make a million dollars, I always go, that's a dream, it's not a goal. There's nothing in that. You know, one of the reasons but I want to make a million dollars is this is A crazy reason, right? But I'll tell you now, one of the reasons that I want to have a million dollar business is because of the types of events that I get invited to. So the kinds of people I get to hang out, I get access to. For me, that's a genuine motivator. Like if I'm not making a million dollars, like, because I don't need, personally, I don't need a million dollars. I need way less than that for my life. And my business would be simpler and all these things. But I enjoy the experiences that having a million dollar business. Now there's also obviously other rooms that you can get into if you're making a billion dollars. I don't give a crap about being in those rooms. So I'm like, I never want to have a million dollars, right? So I don't, I don't care about that. So it's just about what, what are the things you want? And for you it might be access to certain people, certain experiences, certain assets, houses, cars, holidays, time, whatever it's going to be. But the size of your list needs to be reverse engineered from what the actual goals are. Because the truth is, the smaller your list, the easier they are to manage, the easier they are to keep engaged, and the cheaper that it is to host, the less problems. So the real goal is get really good at converting the list you do have. Weirdly, that's the, that's the reason my business even exists, because I'm really, really good at converting people. I'm not the best in the world at building a list. You're incredible at that. That's one of the things you're brilliant at. My thing is I've always been terrible at building lists and never dedicated the time to get much better at it. So I got really good at coming up with innovative campaigns to present my same offer from in different angles to reset people's attention. I got really good at converting the list I had, which is the reason we were able to grow a million dollar business from I think less than 8,000 people, which is amazing.

You know, most business like, you know, quote unquote, that when they hit that figure, I would say they're probably minimum of like 25 to 50,000 depending on what their offer is on their list.

So, but, but remember that's also been done through necessity because I didn't have the skills of building a 30,000 person list. I was like, that just seems like a lot work, a lot of upfront expense. The truth is you've got people on your email list right now who you've already paid through time, effort, sweat, money, however you've already invested, you've gone first, you're the person who's gone. I'm going to take the risk. I'm going to put my time or my money into that. And you've got them in your email list. Now it's time for you to get a return on that. That's, that's the job. That's what, that's what we've got to do. And so until we do that, we've got people on our email list who came to us because they've got a problem and they believe from what you said on the outside of your marketing that you've got the solution. Please tell them about the solution.

Yeah. Okay, so next quick fire question, which is kind of related to this one, is how often should people be emailing their list?

I mean, as we said before, I think anything less than three times a week is gonna really be tricky for people to remember who you are. And I realize that sounds terrifying when you think about the way you're currently doing your email marketing. Like, oh, gosh, it takes me hours to put my email newsletter together. Those two things don't have to be true. You don't have to keep. If you're going to keep doing it the way you've done it, then, yes, going to continue to take you that long, which means you're going to continue doing the frequency you're currently doing, which might not be performing as well. So minimum, three times a week to keep people in touch. But especially in the early part of the relationship with you, when you want to speed up the depth of that relationship so you don't end up being, you know, if you go on a date with somebody, right, if you want to date with somebody and they don't call you for a week, or they don't text for a week, then your relationship with them doesn't really go anywhere. It sort of fizzles out before it even starts. Whereas those great dates you've been on where you're like back and forth and back and forth and the next dates in really soon, it actually develops and it goes somewhere. Those are the ones which end up in happiness and longer term relationships. So relations are relationships, right? Humans are humans. We're all relating to people all the time. Whether they're friendships, romantic relationships, or customer and client relationships. They're all relationships with human beings, between human beings. So we want to have that, that sped up piece at the beginning. And so the Easiest way to do that is to have some simple automations. Just have some simple automations and, and people think, oh my God, automations are so difficult. Let me give you the, the shortcut, the trick, the this is how you stack the deck in your favor is simply this is what I do every time I'm doing new automation. Let's say I'm going to do a new, I'm going to do a new webinar. Let's just say, right? I'm going to do a webinar. Great. Usually when you come up with a new campaign or a new automation, like a webinar or a sales video or a launch or a challenge, you force yourself eventually into your office or into a coffee shop with your computer and you make yourself bash out that entire campaign. Then you put it into your activecampaign, your ghl, your keep your whatever platform, you build it all out and then you grab all your contacts and you dump them in the top and you hope it all works. I don't like working like that. If that's how I worked, I would never make an automation. Which is why so many people don't make automations. They have like an elephant's graveyard of a Google Drive of half started flipping automations and campaigns because of this very thing. It's not very motivating in a world today. And I'm very much like this. We all want instant gratification. Like I won't even wait for a book to be delivered from Amazon the next day anymore, right. I need to download it now even if I'm not gonna damn well read it now. I need to download it now. I've got it. What we wanna do instead to get that instant gratification is to write an email now. So I'm gonna do a webinar. Great. I'm gonna write today's email saying, oh, I'm gonna do a webinar on Tuesday. I'm gonna send it out to my list now.

Yeah, and then you gotta do it.

And then I gotta do it. But also I'm getting registrations now. I'm not waiting two weeks until the whole thing's done to see if it's going to work. I'm sending the email out and I'm also validating whether they care about the topic or not. And I haven't made the webinar. I might have done the registration page, which is like the zoom register for my webinar page with a bit of a headline, a couple of bullet points and maybe a photo of me From a couple of years ago when I didn't look like this, you know, like that kind of stuff, but I was thinner and younger and slightly more handsome. But, but what you've got instead is you've got validation, you've got instant feedback. So you send the email out now and let's just say it's a simple launch, like it's going to be a six day, or let's say it's a three day flash sale campaign, something really short. Write the email, send it out sales instantly, not waiting until the, until you finish the thing and then tomorrow send another email, write the email, send the email, make sales, plan the campaign, write the email, send the email, make sales and do that every single day for the four days that the campaign is and then at the end of it you've made some sales. So you got paid for the work you just did. Great. That's a job fine. It's a job that didn't take too much effort and it was quite enjoyable because you were communicating your thing to people and you got paid for it. Lovely. But don't stop there, go back, have a look at the numbers on those emails. Which one of them had the lowest open rate? Tweak the subject line a little bit, maybe put a tease in the previous email about hey, tomorrow I'm going to something else to boost that one's open rate, which one got the lowest click through rate. Make the call to action link a bit more obnoxious, a bit more standing out, change it to a button, make it bold, put on its own line, do something like that, just lift everything a little bit, right? Mostly those two things. Then grab those emails that you already wrote and put them into an automation so that every new subscriber who comes on your email list now goes through that and that automation. When people hear automation, they think of this spaghetti junction, of what if they do this and if they do that and if they've got blue hair and if they've got glasses on and if they, if you know automations have two elements, emails and wait times. That's it. Email, wait 24 hours or however many hours, then another email, then wait, then email and wait, then that. Is it. Anything more than that, you're risking people falling through the cracks. Anything more than that, people are going to fall through the cracks and that means you're going to waste those leads, they're going to be unsatisfied, they're not going to be helped by you and your solutions and you're not going to make sales from them. So what's now nice is you've had instant gratification from the work you've done. That's a job. But you've also, by doing that, built an asset of things that are going to make you sales every time new subscribers are coming in. So imagine if you'd done this a year ago and you were making sales today from a bunch of emails, four or five emails that you wrote a whole year ago, making your sales today. So what you're doing, instead of, instead of just spending emails and spending your time, you're creating instant gratification and creating assets which actually pay you going forward. You said this was quick fire, but I realize I've ignored.

That's fine. My question was quick. You can take as long as you like. All right, lucky last question. And I always like to ask this question of any guests that we have. What is your tech stack? Although I know it's controversial at the moment because you're in the middle of moving things around.

Yeah. So I'll tell you, I'll not sort of tell you what the past tech stack was because that might sound like I'm saying that's no good because that's not the case. We're just moving things around a little bit. So Tech stack is email marketing is. We're currently shifting to GHL to go high level and I know a lot of people are using that and we're pretty impressed with what they're doing. So that's pretty cool. We do internal comms through Slack, so if you've got any like outsourced workers or any freelancer, help me out, that's definitely worth doing. We have some custom stuff. Yeah. So we use Countdown Hero, which we developed as like an evergreen countdown timer. So actually that's a good point. Actually I should have mentioned that if you're going to take a Flash sale which has like three day countdown on it when it has to expire, then you're going to automate that. You're going to need a tool to do that and we needed a tool to do that. So we have a software developer on our team anyway, so we had him develop a tool called Countdown Hero that actually is available, is available now for others to use as a one off price. Actually don't even charge monthly for it just because we think it's cool.

So we'll include a link to that as well. So everyone can get their account in here.

Yeah, so yeah, so we have that. We have that. What else do we use in the business? Our like members area and stuff like for delivering products. We've tried lots of different things where we've looked at lots of different things and we still haven't switched away from the flexibility that WordPress gives us rather than these all in ones like I think Kajabi do a pretty good job of that. I'm not a huge fan of Kajabi's email marketing element at all or the fact you can't really connect with it, but they do have a brilliant UI interface and. And visuals for. For delivering programs. But yeah, for us it's WordPress with a theme and we just manage people's access.

Do you have a plugin that you guys like for your membership kind of stuff or for your.

We've just moved it to a different one but I can't what it's called we're using Memberium but it doesn't yet integrate with ghl. They're. They're probably going to work on it I think. But yeah, we've had to go with a different solution. But I will come back to Memberium probably if and when they change that. But yeah, so it just gives the most flexibility. It means that when people log into our members area, whether they get a free lead magnet or a paid thing, they can see the programs they've bought and they can see all the programs they haven't if they want to go and investigate those. And we make sales pretty much every day from people clicking around. Well, definitely every week from people clicking around and noodling about in there.

Yeah, yeah. Oh wonderful. Well that's all the questions I had for you. Thank you so much for taking the time. There's some awesome little tidbits here. I've written a couple of notes for myself. Where can people come and find you and learn more about all things Kennedy and email marketing heroes?

So a couple of things, if you like podcasts, which I guess if you listen to this, you probably do, we have a podcast every week called the Email Marketing show. So you can find that on your podcast player by searching for the Email Marketing Show. We also have a free community where people can come and discuss how to apply any of the stuff you might heard me talk about here or elsewhere for free. Just to make sure you can actually go and use this stuff. It's called the Email Marketing Show Community. Just go to Facebook, search for the Email Marketing show community and you can also just have a look at our website email marketingheroes.com Too many call to actions really. But I'm sure you'll dig out those links and find whatever suits you best.

Yeah, wonderful. And we'll try and include them below as well. So thank you so much, Kennedy. It's been lovely sharing a virtual cup of tea with you across from the other side of the world.

The other side of the world.

Yeah. Couldn't get further away. But yeah, thank you so much. I really loved getting chat to you and I hope everyone did as well. Everyone, go, go, follow, go, click, go, do all the things and send a bit of virtual good juju Kennedy's way. But yeah, thank you so much.

My pleasure.