#32 - My favourite tech stack + what I recommend for beginners

Because it is one of my pet peeves when people are out there going, oh no, you know, I don't want to spend $10 on getting that tool. I'd much rather try and either do it myself, manually, spend a couple of hours a week doing it myself, or I'd much rather go and try and, you know, sticky tape together a couple of free tools which aren't as good and don't work as well and don't make my life as easy.

This is the Doing it online podcast with your serial entrepreneur, six and seven figure funnel strategist and super nerd, Kate McKibben, where every week we're here talking nerdy and sharing the things that actually work to help you do what you do online. But better, easier and with a ton more profit too. Are you ready? Let's do it.

Hey, hey everybody, it is Kate McKibben here from hello Funnels and welcome to episode number 30. Now today we are talking nerdy. We're going to talk one of my favorite topics and that is tech stacks. So today I'm going to share exactly what tools and software we use, exactly how much we spend on software a year that might shock a lot of you, and also exactly what I recommend for people just getting started who only have, you know, small budgets and who are wanting to make sure that every single penny they invest is, you know, paying itself back 10 over, if not more. So I'm going to share my very, very favorite beginner friendly tech stack as well. So let's jump on in.

So guys, as I said, today we are going to be talking tech stacks, which is for anyone who is maybe new to this industry and thinking, what the hell is a tech stack? A tech stack is basically the, you know, your own unique combination of software and digital tools that helps you to your business. Because we are pretty lucky here with this particular business model that we can actually, you know, get up and running and our overheads can be so low. Like we can create an amazing, impactful, profitable business and our monthly expenses for running it are maybe, you know, fifty, a hundred, couple hundred of dollars, which is just unheard of in most businesses. Most businesses you have to buy stuff, stock, you have to have staff, you might have to have a physical presence, you have to pay for permits and all kinds of things. This online world that we are in, we are so super blessed. And I know that quite often, you know, once you start to add in, you know, a couple of different things in your tech stack, sorry, starts to get bigger, people get a bit Nervous they might get even a bit resentful about having to spend this money. But when you look at it in comparison to other businesses out there, it is such a drop in the ocean. And with the return that you can get from this money. So sorry, I'm going to get off on my high horse here just for a second before we dive in because it is one of my pet peeves when people are out there going, oh no, you know, I don't want to spend $10 on getting that tool. I'd much rather try and either do it myself, manually, spend a couple of hours a week doing it myself, or I'd much rather go and try and, you know, sticky tape together a couple of free tools which aren't as good and don't work as well and don't make my life as easy, rather than just investing that, that $10 or that $20, you know, $50 even in something that is going to, you know, make your life easier, make your business run smoother, make your clients experience better, and ultimately allow you to have more time to do the work you should be doing to ultimately allow you to grow faster and less and more stress free as well. And I know it's just this thing and people go, oh, but I don't want to spend that money. I'm not, you know, necessarily earning that much yet. But I want you when it comes to, I'm not saying just go out there willy nilly and buy all of the new shiny objects, but when it comes to a few key pieces of software like the ones we're going to talk about today, these are going to make such a big difference in your business when you have them, when you have the right ones that, you know, it's not going to feel like a waste of money. It's not going to feel like a stretch, it's going to feel like a necessity and something that is actually paying you back 10 times over, like I said. So without, with all that in mind, I wanted to share kind of the opposite end of the scale with you guys. And that is, I want to share how much we spent on our tech in the last 12 months, the 12 months of last year. And that is we spent over $25,000 on tech last year. And when I saw that number, I did do a double take because that is a pretty, that's not like going, oh, another $10 here, another $20, there's, that's some big bikies. That's a large number. And that was one that did make me stop and Do a double take. However.

That'S not what everyone has to spend. And in fact, most people should only be spending a very small fraction of that until you have, like ginormous email lists and things. The reason we spent so much on tech last year was actually because we signed up to all of the tech, because we do tutorials on all of the tech, like all of the big names. Anyway. So when people join our programs, we need to be a. We need to be both up to date with how they work and what features they have so we can help advise them. And also we have, you know, step by step walkthrough videos of how to set up certain pieces of our funnels and the, you know, the other online marketing things that we teach. So we obviously need to have access to the program to do that. So that is why our bill is so crazy. But the stuff we're going to talk about today is absolutely only a fraction of that. So I just, you know, wanted to drop that little bomb in there to maybe make you feel a little bit better about your own tech stack bill. As we kind of go into this today, my second confession is that, you know, for myself, as I mentioned, I love this stuff so much, like probably a little bit too much. And I am constantly, whenever I hear about a new tool or maybe a tool that's had a recent update, I need to get in there and have a play with it. And, you know, I get my team in there and we got all excited. And so quite often, although I am getting better at not doing this too much, quite often we are updating and, you know, our tech stack is evolving. So it's kind of why I wanted to do this episode as well. Because, you know, our tech stack does change from year to year. So I wanted to let you know what we're using right now, what we are loving, what we're possibly thinking about changing and switching around to. And then we're going to dive into my recommendations for, like I said that my very favorite super simple, super affordable tech stack for beginners. So let's start off with the big one, the chunky one. Let's dive into what my current tech stack is. Well, my team, all of us on hello, funnels. And for a lot of these, you won't necessarily need all of these pieces. And I definitely didn't go and jump in and get all of these right up front. I have built this tech stack as my business has built, and as you know, the requirements have kind of come up. So to start off with one that Everybody needs is obviously an email marketing platform. So something that's going to allow you to grow your email list, to send out your email newsletters and then as you're starting to get a bit more sophisticated with your marketing and your sales, also to have obviously automations and funnels built in so you can start to systemize some of your workflows, some of your processes, help to make sure you're delivering things more consistently and reliably and and streamlining your time as well. So my absolute favorite and has been for years, I kind of joke that I would, you know, if they gave me a lifetime license, I'd get AC for life tattooed on you somewhere. And I'm only half joking is activecampaign. I absolutely love activecampaign for a lot of reasons. I know, like I said, we've tried them all, we have subscriptions to them all. And I just find activecampaign is that really good balance of easy to use. Of course, whenever you try a different software it doesn't feel as easy to use as what you're currently using just because you don't know where things are or what they're called yet. But once you've figured out how it works, it is super easy to use day to day. It's really fast. Like actually going and creating emails that look nice is really beautiful. You don't have to do any stupid HTML like you have to do in ConvertKit and things like that. Or you know, the actual. The builder that you design the emails in is really straightforward, really. Like, you know, it just makes sense. The other thing about it is it has also has even in the light level and that's all that most people need. Unless you're going to use it as more of like a CRM type tool which most people, if you know, if you're an online course creator or something, it's probably not something you actually need that functionality. So just the light level of the basic plan is all you need. It starts at $15, so $15 for up to, I think it's 500 subscribers and then it goes up to $35. Like the pricing is actually really comparable with like a mailchimp or any of the other entry level ones out there. But it's so much smarter now. I know mailchimp has actually just done a big update and they've now got proper workflows and things in there, which is great. And I think they've called them customer Journeys or something like that. So which is fantastic because that means that if you are a die hard mailchimp person and you don't want to go and learn new system, you can just upgrade. But again, this isn't available on their basic plan, it's only available on their higher level plans. So it actually ends up becoming more and more expensive. And to be honest, they're still not as smart, not as clever as the activecampaign ones are. So that's just, you know, my little two cents there. But you know, as I said, we've tried them all. We've tried ontraport, we've tried convertkit, we've tried infusionsoft, we tried all of them and they're either too complicated or not smart enough or just, you know, really not intuitive to use or they're just horrendously expensive. So activecampaign kind of, for me anyway, ticks all of the boxes. And most people who jump onto activecampaign after they've heard me raving about it will always come back and say, oh my gosh, I'm so glad that I made this move. It also has good deliverability, all of those things. Anyway, this is not a sponsored by ActiveCampaign Podcast by any means. Possibly should be because I am one of the biggest fans, but it is just really great. The second tool obviously, which I think everybody needs, is website, blog slash page builder. Now I like to actually lump all of these into one because why pay for multiple tools if you can get one tool that does everything and does it really well? So what we use is ShowIt Plus. So we have the ShowIt Plus WordPress option. So that means that all of our blog posts are done in WordPress just how you normally would. However, the theme for that WordPress site is actually one that we've built ourselves and custom designed in the ShowIt page builder, which is so much fun and so easy to use. And then it also all ties in nicely and seems really seamless because our more static pages like our homepage and our sales page and our about pages and all those ones that you want to look really beautiful or really custom or be something a little bit different. Our opt in pages, they're all designed in ShowIt, so ShowIt has a page builder so you kind of get. Again, showit is probably the second thing that I rave about and manage to convert so many people over to. If you've ever felt frustrated with the lack of real design flexibility that you get in a lot of page builders or how slow they are, or if you're just so annoyed with all the plugins that you need to kind of get it to do what you want and how often that crashes than this. For us, when we made this move and I kind of see it as like a hybrid move because I wasn't ready to go fully over to like a convert, sorry, squarespace or something like that. I still wanted a lot of the features, particularly around SEO, that you get by having a WordPress blog. And I still love to be able to have as much design control as possible. And Showit kind of gave us both of those things. So if you've gone and checked at our site, just hellofinals co, go have a look. It's all, all show it and you'll see that it's just. It doesn't have that look and feel that a lot of particularly WordPress templates kind of have where things kind of end up in like columns and it all just feels a little bit samey samey. So absolutely love ShowIt and WordPress. And like I said, we use it for our page builder as well. So it's replaced the need for like elite pages or something for us. And it's only like $39 a month and we get our WordPress hosting plus we get our page builder plus all of this stuff. So it's actually kind of a bargain too. Next one is webinar software. This one people ask me about a lot. And to be honest, it's one I have chopped and changed on a lot because I have yet to find the perfect solution. But what we're doing and what we're really loving at the moment is for our live webinars. We really love Demio. The reason we love Demio, it's so easy to use. We've tried all the other ones. Some of them make you go through like 15 different pages of setup steps before your webinar is ready. And that's just, I feel unnecessary for what it is, you know, yes, it allows a lot of customization, but it's not customization that 99% of people, I think actually need. The other thing is, it's just beautiful. So many webinar softwares, you can tell they're just designed by dudes. And Demeo is like, you know, it's like going and looking at like a Mac versus like a 1990s PC.

It's just, it's light and it's. The spacing's lovely and it just looks really nice as well. And I think from a user experience, as someone who's logging into a webinar, it's, you know, it's quite enjoyable. It doesn't feel clunky, it feels really professional. It is slightly limited on a few things. The tracking and stats kind of sucks. But you can put your Google Analytics code in it and then use that, which is what I would recommend as a way around that. And there's not a huge amount of flexibility if you are wanting to change the design of the opt in page or change the design or so even the text in the emails or how many emails get sent out, it's kind of, they've gone. This is best practice. You know, we'll allow you to tweak a few things but this is kind of how it is. But having said that, it still works really well. So maybe you don't need all those customizations after all. You know, we use them for both of our launches that we ran second half of last year. Our show up rates were great, our signup rates were great. Like those are the key stats that people would be wanting more flexibility to change and they were both fantastic. So I think, you know, tick, tick easy to use. It gets the biggest tick for me. Yes, it's lacking in some things, but because we're only using it for live, not for Evergreen, we don't sort of didn't feel like we needed those stats quite as much and that we could fill in those holes stats wise by looking at things manually. Just those one off kind of times. For Evergreen webinars, we've actually just made the move off of all the software. We're not using any Evergreen software at all anymore because they didn't really serve a purpose. Usually they were a bit buggy or like I said, they were just plain ugly. And you know, people aren't silly. They understand that these things are prerecorded when it's not something that's live. So you kind of don't need to pretend anymore. You can kind of just be kind of straight up with people. So we've just gone the good old fashioned, you know, recorded an amazing presentation, popped it into a static page in our showit and then people have a page in front of that that has, you know, an opt in form on it. So you say, hey, want to come and watch our masterclass Netflix style? Pop your details in here. They do it redirects them to the page with the video on it and then, you know, just so much easier. No bells, no whistles, just here's the video, you can watch it and you obviously you can include a button then for any next steps and things as well. So that was actually one thing that I definitely dragged my feet on doing because I really, really loved and I really, really believed it was important to have the chat roll replay, because particularly when the webinar presentation you're embedding is one that's been taken from a live recording, you know, quite often you're referring to stuff that's happening in the chat and I just sort of liked people to be able to see that. So it was like this bit more of a cohesive experience. And also because people often asking and answering questions in the chat as well. I felt like it added an extra layer, but, you know, we switched away from it. Our conversion rates have actually improved. So maybe it wasn't actually adding a layer that other people cared about, just one that I did. So, again, just another little thing to think about. If you are feeling frustrated with your current webinar software like I was, but sort of feeling like you don't have another option, might be worth a little test. All right, so now moving on to course hosting. So our courses are currently hosted in Kajabi. However we are. This might be news to my team. Sorry, guys. So we might be thinking about possibly moving to a different platform this year. And the only reason I say that is because for us, we don't use Kajabi's native checkout, we use ThriveCart because it has a bunch of features that we need. So. And ThriveCart and Kajabi do not directly integrate. So when someone purchases from our. From us, they purchase via ThriveCart. It then sends a zap to Zapier or Zapier or whatever you call it, and then that then sends a thing to Kajabi. And strangely, of all the zaps that we have, and we got a lot of zaps going on, the one that goes to Kajabi is the one that fails the most. Which means that we're getting like a couple of times a week we're getting people saying they've purchased something and they haven't received their logins. And if, you know, if that happens, if someone purchases something that's 3am our time, we're not able to get back to them for five, six, seven hours, depending on who's jumping in and whether it's a day that I'm working in the morning or in the afternoon. And that's not a great customer experience. And I don't like, you know, and I hate that. Like, I want it everything to be seamless. Seamless is my word for this year. So looking at possibly some options that have a direct integration that would be the. Otherwise, you know, I think Kajabi for hosting your courses is great. I think it is one of the nicer looking ones and you know, that's one thing I've always valued really highly is it has to look nice and it has to be easy to use both as a user like an end user and also us as like the, the team setting it all up. And it definitely does all those things. I don't really use any of the other Kajabi features though. So we probably are paying more than what we actually need because you know, Kajabi also sends emails, although not super well and you know, and it has a page builder which we don't use because we have Showit because Showit is a better page builder for our needs anyway and you know, has all these other things which we're just not using but we are paying for. So again, you know, with keeping in mind that I spent $25,000 roughly on SaaS products last year, like maybe we don't need to be paying for the full on Kajabi when actually we could get something work just as well. And I'll talk about some of those other less expensive options shortly. So moving right along, next thing we have is a checkout. Now we have a standalone checkout but you don't need to have a standalone checkout. The reason that we use checkout, we use ThriveCart is because it does have a bunch more options that a lot of the core software's own built in checkouts don't have. So for example, we love to do things like order bumps or upsells or you know, there's different types of recurring payments and things like that. And also, you know, we sometimes will run offers for our Australian audience where we charge in Australian dollars. We need to be able to take tax from certain countries and things like that and that not, you know, all of those features aren't necessarily included or not included as well in some of the, you know, the direct course shopping carts. Now Kajabi's one is very good. Like it was really, it was a big toss up between the two. And the main reason that we didn't go for the Kajabi direct integration like so direct checkout rather than our own third party checkout is we actually already owned and used ThriveCart from when we before we started using Kajabi. So everything was already set up in there and it was just a matter of changing what was unlocked when people purchase. So it was just a much easier kind of workflow for us. However, now I'm looking at it going, hmm, maybe, maybe we need to change something in that because, yeah, I hate those failed apps. So, yeah, so that's our checkout then. The other service that we have is Help Scout for our customer service ticketing platform. For us, we, you know, as we've been scaling, we've really found the need to have a proper customer service ticketing platform versus just having a Gmail inbox, particularly as we have multiple people coming in at different times and responding to different things. So that's been really key for us. Is Help Scout the best one out there? No, not really. This one is also flagged on my list for something that we will hopefully be changing in 2021. However, I'm holding out because it is going to be a bit of a hassle to change. I'm holding out and waiting to see if any of them come out with a direct integration with Instagram dms. A lot of them have Facebook at the moment or they have comments on Instagram posts. I would really like to have all of our, you know, responding to our customers, to our followers happen in one place. So it's literally you can log into one place, go through and go, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. All done. Rather than logging into like 15 different places. So that's what. As soon as that happens, we'll probably make the jump to a different platform. Now, our customer community, as we just talked about in a recent episode, we've just recently moved from Facebook group over to a Slack group. Yes, there's been a couple of teething problems, although actually nothing to do with Slack, more to do with our own internal processes and, you know, who does what and what goes where. But it has been really great. People have been raving about it. So really, really recommend that if you are curious about how that would work, definitely go check out that previous episode. I think it was like one or two episodes ago. So not. You don't have to scroll down far to see it. Our email, we use just Gmail or G Suite or whatever it's called these days. Our project management software and task management software is we use ClickUp and that again is also probably a recent transition for us. We used to use Asana. Still love Asana. The reason we moved to ClickUp is it just had again it's kind of like moving, like I said, from like a mailchimp to an active campaign. It just has so much more and not necessarily ones. We're probably this whole bunch. We're never going to use, but there was a few features that were just really vital things like having shared views that showed, you know, you could filter to show you key dates across multiple projects. We've got a really good overview of everything that's happening at once, but without seeing every single little task. Like we could just see like the key dates and the key milestones. Also like Automations, of course. Like ClickUp has Automations. Yes, Asana also has Automations, but it's at a, again, a higher pricing tier. And as my team gets bigger, I'm kind of aware of, you know, committing to something that's, you know, $30 each a month as the team grows and things like that. ClickUp has all the Automations, you know, available on their entry level tier as well, I'm pretty sure. So it ended up being a lot cheaper for us, had a lot more features. It's still super easy to use. It also has things like Docs, so it's kind of been replacing our Evernote as well. It has a chat feature, so if we wanted to, we could use it instead of Slack, but we're already well into Slack, so that's. Yeah. So love, love, love ClickUp. If you haven't checked it out and you want to go down a rabbit hole, go and check that one out. And then last but not least is our social scheduling. And we use later for our Instagram stories and we use Storrito. Sorry, we use later for our Instagram feed and Facebook and we use Storrito for scheduling Instagram stories, particularly because over the last, you know, six months or so, it's been kind of sporadic, what days I can and can't do things live. So we've definitely been more looking at sort of batch creating stuff for stories, reels, things like that, and actually scheduling them in so that we can still be showing up consistently. But it doesn't have to rely on. What seems to be kind of almost impossible at the moment is having, you know, consistent times where I can be jumping in as presentable as humanly possible without loud construction going on next door or children running around the background. So all of that costs us around about $1,000 a month, plus a few other little things here and there. Like we use things to put your. We use Wave to do our audiograms and all that kind of, you know, there's still a bunch of other little things which I didn't want to put you all to sleep talking about. Yeah, that's around about a thousand dollars a month for our tech stack, which I Know, for a lot of you kind of like, whoa, that's a lot. But please bear in mind our email list isn't small and like I said, we've got a lot of. Because we already have to have and know a lot of these different platforms to be able to do tutorials and to be able to teach about them. I've kind of come in it with the viewpoint that with a lot of them is like, I would rather put together the best of, you know, individual. I would rather have multiple platforms that are each kind of best at what they do working together. Like try and keep it as simple as possible. But I'd rather do that than, you know, be trying to cut corners and save five bucks here, five bucks there by having, you know, either an all in one or something like that. Which yes, would reduce costs properly, but would also, you know, would add to our time costs and to the effort of our team because things are more fiddly or they don't work as well or they don't work how we like to work. Anyway, so that is our tech stack and I'm sure you kind of, there might be some great ideas for you guys in there or you might be going, whoa, that is a lot. Just make it freaking simple for me, Kate. And that is what I'm here to do for you now. So I want to now share with you what I recommend for people who are just getting started. So I keep it super, super simple. Like to get started with an online course, you literally need three things. I was already said you need email. You need an email service so you can grow your list, you can communicate with that list and you can start eventually doing.

Smarter email sequences and funnels. And as I've already mentioned, ActiveCampaign is 100% my favorite and it starts at $15 a month. So why would you use anything else? Second is you need a website, blog and page builder. And again, like I said, I like that to be let's make our lives easier and let's why pay for multiple things when you can have a really amazing page builder, you know, gorgeous website, really easy to customize and also WordPress and you know, best practice blogging. So ShowIt+WordPress is my recommendation there. That is $29 a month. That includes your WordPress hosting, which is, you know, usually and that WordPress hosting is with WP Engine. Like they've kind of teamed up and that's one of the best ones out there. So it's actually the show, it is almost free because WP engine I think it's $29 a month anyway. And then the third thing you need is a platform to be hosting your course. One that people, you know, they can purchase your program, get sent access that they can dive in easily, consume your content, all that kind of stuff. And I've actually got two recommendations for people getting started. Again, it really just depends here on, well, on two things. One, on what your sort of personal aesthetic is and how you like things to look in your business, and the other one is just on your budget as well. So the two ones that I recommend people getting started are Podia and membervault. These are both great, really solid platforms. All the features that you're going to need to create and sell an online course. They've got a shopping cart built in, they're both really easy to get up and running and they have great customer service. And I think this ads do show it and as does activecampaign. And I think that is a requirement if it's, you know, if I'm recommending anything to people who are just getting started and who aren't feeling super comfortable with different tech. Like, you need to be able to see that little chat icon down the bottom, know that you can reach out and ask questions and you will get an answer as well. So they, you know, they tick all of those boxes. As I say, the main difference between the two is probably really an aesthetic one. I think Podia is nicer looking, it's a bit cleaner, it's probably more feminine. Although you obviously can edit Member Vault to look however you like, but Member Vault's a bit more functional looking, so. And again, neither is wrong and people have. It's probably quite a subjective view of it so, you know, go have a look to see how you like it. The other kind of difference is probably really in the core functionality. Podia has a lot of things they say it does, but I probably would never use it. It's probably like a kajabi for us kind of scenario. Like they say they have a website, but their website builder is not where I would want it to be to actually use it for a website. They say they do webinars, but they don't really, you know, so you, yes, you probably read it, go, wow, it does all of these things. I don't actually need an email service, I don't need a proper website. Yeah, you still do and you will move to them eventually. So if you can squeeze an extra 20, $30 into your budget, better off setting them up properly to start with. However, for that core thing that they do, which is, you know, being able to create online courses and memberships and things like that, they do that really well and you know, I give them five stars on that. So yes, that's. And if that's, that is what I would recommend them for, not so much the rest of it. So just when you see that big long list of features it has, I'd probably ignore most of them. When it comes to membervault, what they do that is a little bit different is that they actually have this thing they called EP which I think is like engagement points. And so they have a bit more gamification built in so people you can set up for your online programs. And a lot of people do this as a way of really incentivizing people to, to keep going and to actually log in and to take part and to engage. But people can earn points and there's a, you know, there's a leaderboard like you can see for each month like who's the most active person who's getting through things the most. And that can be really motivating depending on, you know, the type of program that you're doing. You also can use them for your free products. Although do remember though if you're using it for like an opt in or running a free challenge that you only get a certain number of people on the free plan. And if Member Vault does start at free by the way and then the next level is only $19 per year is $39 a month from for the base plan. But if you were going to use Member Vault to do host your free things you as your list building you're probably going to get ticked over into those higher categories faster. So I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. MemberVault also kind of, they sort of say that they the way they're set up helps you to cross promote your other paid offers and things. I don't really know how many people you know whether or not that works. It's not something I've tested if I think that might be something you might want to have a play with yourself. But again it's one of the sort of the things that they sort of really stand on as their point of difference is like hey, when people, you know, log in they'll still be able to see that there's other programs they don't have access to and they'll be able to see the price and they'll be able to link through to purchase them as well if you wanted to set it up that way. So it's they say it helps to increase the likelihood of people buying your other programs, which it probably would, but I've just never tested it. So anyway, those are my two options. Both super simple to use, both very entry level friendly pricing. So just go and have a check out of them if you think that the gamification would be cool. You can sign up for them both for free to have a bit of a sticky beak around. But yeah, my advice really would be if you kind of can't decide between the two, neither are bad. Both will do what you want them to do really at the end of the day, which is to provide a home for your online education to live so that it can easily be distributed out to your customers and give them a great experience. So just go with your gut. Go. Yes, I think I kind of prefer this one over the other. Make that decision, move forward. Don't stay stuck on it for too long. It's not worth it at the end of the day, as I said, both will do it. Both will tick that box. So that's it guys. So for as I said, my beginner tech stack, email ActiveCampaign, your page builder and website showit and a course host which could be Podia or Member Vault. And depending on exactly which combo you go for that you could have absolutely everything you need for $44. Like you can run an amazingly profitable business for $44 a month. There's really not many other business models out there that allow you to do that. So don't get stingy when it comes to investing in your SaaS, guys. It does make your life so, so much easier. Final thing is, I know that some people be going, well what about all the all in ones like your Kartras and your Simpleros and like your Kajabis? I've already kind of touched on guys. I feel that with most of them they do a couple of things really well and everything else they just kind of do okay. They also tend to be like, I've had a double with Kartra. I really wanted to love Kartra, but even just setting up a simple product to be available for sale was so many steps that I just went give up and I'm looking also like I'm a member of a couple of programs who do use Kartra and unless you've got a really simple program with maybe like four to six modules that only have a couple of lessons in each, it's going to be so painful trying to load that in to your membership area and also not Ideal from a user's perspective of having to try and navigate around them either. So I just feel like yes, if you're, you know, if you kept everything really simple, if your program was really short and simple, if you didn't, if you were, you know, the kind of person who's like I'm going to have one opt in and one webinar and one program that yes, you could get everything set up and then just leave it forever and then it probably would be great. But I'm not that person. I'm the person who's constantly coming up with new things and playing and testing and it just is not conducive to that. Like everything's a bit overly complicated to do that simpler. I've never played with personally I have heard good things, but again, all of the all in ones they seem to fall into that basket of yes, if you do a couple of things well, everything else we do less than well. And I do find that while you're, you know, getting started, price wise tends to work out pretty well. Once your email list starts to grow that price really, really jacks up versus if you're just, you know, if it was just your email list price that was growing rather than your everything price that's growing because your email list is growing, if that makes sense. So my two cents worth. Anyway guys, that's probably enough nerdy talk for me today. I would love to know actually over on social media, tag me at hellofunnels co if you know there. We've maybe talked about a program that you are interested to try out now or if there is something that I have missed that you love, let me know. As I said, I love knowing about all of the nerdy things. Don't tell my poor team. They probably should ask them not to look because they will not be happy if people are recommending more programs to me. But yeah, give me tag me on Instagram, let me know what your favorites are. I can't wait to check them out. Thank you so much for joining me today. I hope you have got a lot out of this episode. If you have, make sure you subscribe so you never miss another episode. And if you know anyone else out there who's getting started online or looking to grow their business, please please share this episode with them. So it's our mission to help as many people as possible to create financial freedom through using funnels and by helping us to get the word out there will help us to do that. So thank you so much for sharing. Thank you for listening in and I will see you all next time next week, same time, same place. Until then guys, keep doing what you do and I'll see you then. Bye.

Thanks so much for listening to the Doing it online podcast. If you love this episode, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. And if you're ready to take your online course sales to the next level with your own six or seven figure funnel, let Kate show you exactly how today@stealmyfunnel.com.

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