£800K Solo, One Niche, No Team: Sophie Allen's First Year In Business

Before we dive into today's conversation, I want to quickly shine a light on the 3 partners who are behind the mission of the podcast this year. First up, we have Atlas. This isn't just another CRM with AI added on as an afterthought. Atlas 2.0 is the first platform in our space built with AI from the ground up and at its core. Next up, we have our longtime partner Sourcewell. You may know them as a world-class outbound sequencing tool, but they fully evolved into a multi-modular system. And the best part is you can plug and play their tools, from the AI note-taker to the inbox agent, all without ripping out your entire tech stack. And finally, Raise. They remain the most powerful way to fund and run your contract book if you want to unlock cash flow and scale your agency with total confidence, you have to check them out. So if you go to the link in the description below, you're going to be able to get access to exclusive offers to all 3 of our partners this year. Let's get into this week's episode. Welcome everyone to another episode of the Recruitment Mentors podcast. Sophie, we're back 5 years down the line. I'm going to give everyone a bit of context to where you are now on your journey, but safe to say things are a bit different from when we last sat down. And our goal with this conversation for everyone listening is we have a really cool conversation upcoming around first year in business. What did we learn? What have been, you know, what have been the challenges? And we really want to try and give people a transparent look on what that could look like if they take that leap. And within that is where we're gonna really get Sophie sharing what has actually worked in today's market. So Sophie's first full year in business was 2025, so we're going to talk about what actually worked for Sophie, what really helped her get clients, uh, achieve the goals that she set out to. So it's also going to be full of some tactic pieces, and I know one of the big things is LinkedIn, and a lot of people always interested, like, how can I get more out of LinkedIn? And we're going to go into that in a lot of detail. So if I get any part of this wrong, Sophie, feel free to, to correct me. But just to give everyone a bit of insight, when we last sat down in person, you worked at Venatrix, and your world, which has actually remained the same, but there's been a slight change over the last, uh, few months is SDR recruitment. That's your world and has been for a very long time. You've really built your reputation and your track record more specifically in the UK and London, but for the last 6 or so months, we've really started to build traction and reputation in New York specifically as well. But we haven't deviated from this SDR piece. I'm going to get into why we think that's been, you know, hugely beneficial. Moved your life to Nice in south of France. How long ago was that?

It will be 5 years this July.

Wow, okay. Yeah, so long time. So moved your life there. So you was actually there working for Venatrix before we launched this business, right? Also a mum now. That wasn't the case when we last sat down.

And you're a dad, congratulations! Thank you, thank you.

And, um, and now in this first full year in, in business, like I said to you, I think an absolute huge achievement, achieving the $800K in revenue. And this is a business that you're like really happy and want it to be a lifestyle business, which we're going to get into. And we're going to try and unpack this, this last like 12 to 16 months. Is, is the goal.

Amazing. I love listening to you do that about other people on your podcast that I've listened to, so I'm honored that now it's about me.

So should we, should we start with a bit more about this sort of like launch decision? Because you had a really long time working for other businesses, so you worked for Venatrix for a really long time. That's where I, I met you. How— let's just keep it fairly open to start. Like, how hard was it making that leap? Was it something that maybe grew over time within you to be like, I really like the idea of doing that? Was it maybe the, the chapter of becoming a mum where you really like the idea of potentially having, uh, even more freedom or just doing really things on your own terms? Like, where— like, talk to us a bit about this launch decision because I know he was also quite smart as to like when you did it as well with childcare and stuff. But talk to us a bit about getting to that point? Because a lot of people talk about it but never potentially take that first step.

Yeah, so I'd worked at Venatrix for a really long time. I think it was like 9 years by the time that I left. Um, absolutely loved the job and, um, absolutely loved my colleagues. Have got like lifelong best friends from working at that company. Um, when COVID happened, I found myself living in the south of France, which basically started as a holiday. And then because remote working was like a thing back then that was new and exciting and everybody seemed to be doing, I just kept like extending, extending, and decided actually it would be really cool if I could live here permanently because I just really fell in love with like the weather, first of all, the lifestyle, just everything about living here. And like, it was really in my gut that I wanted to stay in France and make my life work here. That came with complications for my role at Venatrix because even though they supported me to move, it meant that from like a tax perspective, I was paying a lot more just because of the way that like employment is set up in France compared to the UK, it's much more expensive. So, I was beginning to basically lose money every month from deciding to live in France. And also, I was the only remote employee for Venatrix then. And because it was, you know, they had a team in London, they did like assessment centers, lots of industry events, I very quickly became quite siloed. And it was a bit of a weird dynamic because I was also the one that was pretty much in control of all of the client relationships. So from just like an operational perspective, it started to get really difficult. I'd never dreamed of starting my own business. Like I said, because I just loved what I did before and my team and everything. But then kind of the seed, the seed started to get planted. I was realizing that I'd probably hit a bit of a glass ceiling anyway at Venatrix because of just the nature of my role being the only person that was doing business development. I didn't want to manage people. So other than like just earning more money, there wasn't really much further that I could go. So the seed started to be planted. Then I got pregnant. And when I went on maternity leave, I was doing some freelance sales coaching, um, and that gave me my first taste of like making money completely on my own, um, and being like my own boss. And I just completely fell in love with that. I was like, oh my God, this feels right, this feels really good, this is how I want to move forward. Um, so then had the baby, I was still on maternity leave, actually went back to Venatrix for a bit, but the seed was like already there planted. Um, And then just after like 3 months of being back, I was like, it just doesn't feel right anymore. It doesn't feel the same. It's also when you've got a baby, which you'll completely understand, it's really difficult if you're tied to somebody else's schedule and like there's other people that really rely on you. Again, because I was the one doing all the business development, managing all the client relationships, I would be letting the team down if there was like a morning where, you know, you've had a really bad night with the baby and you can't log on at half 8 or whatever. So very quickly it became apparent that that wasn't going to suit me anymore. So had the difficult conversation, decided to leave, and then I actually didn't have full-time childcare. That was in about May, and I didn't have full-time childcare until September. So I kind of tried to start it in dribs and drabs. I was selling cold calling and LinkedIn courses just to kind of like get my kind of foot off the ground, start generating a bit of revenue, seeing like, can I actually generate clients on my own and sell something without like the brand of Venatrix behind me? Um, that went really well. And then once the crèche started, which is nursery, um, 5 days a week from that September, that's when I like fully went into it and decided to start properly.

What did you know? You said you got a real— like, never really thought about it before, but then had a bit of a taste just through circumstances, and you got a real feel for it. Like, just talk me through that. What is it that you really liked? Was it this element of like, oh wow, I can sort of really be in charge of my own schedule and like manage that? Like, what is it that you felt like really drew you in?

Yeah, I think it was the being able to manage my own schedule. Um, I— this might sound really crass, but I just love making money, and I like loved the fact that I was on maternity leave but I could make this additional income, and I was like completely in control of that. Um, so I think it was that like control piece, especially with, you know, being a mum, but knowing that financially it would be okay because I could control the hours that I was doing, how much work I wanted to put into it. And this might sound a little bit silly, but you do just feel like an absolute boss when you are doing something completely on your own and making money from it. You just have such a sense, like it makes you feel really empowered and it just makes you feel like you can do anything. So I think I did genuinely get a bit addicted to that feeling and I was like, there's just no way I can really like go back to working for somebody else now I've had a taste of what this could be like.

Yeah, fair enough. I appreciate you sharing that. So should we just talk a bit about— because I do think this is always really interesting context for people when I speak to first-time founders, especially those that have been at one organization or maybe a handful for a really long time— that initial period where they have covenants and they can't straight away tap into their existing clients is something that I know a lot of people maybe get really concerned about or potentially worried about. I think for you, for yourself, with you being— your whole track record is building relationships, building clients. That isn't part of the job that you're maybe not fearful— isn't the right word— but there's a lot of recruiters out there where they would say like, that's the hardest part of the job. But that's, you know, for a long time, that's the job that was your job. Right? So you had that in your experience, but at the same time you was leaving an organization and you couldn't just then, um— let's talk about the client piece because I feel like that can sometimes hold people back when it comes to what covenants do they have, when can I speak to my long-term relationships. Talk us through that because that's also a bit different in France, right, which I didn't actually know.

Yeah, so part of the deal of me being able to continue working for Venatrix but living in France was that I moved on to a French French contract, and without getting into all the boring stuff to do with French employment law, basically it's really weighted towards the employee. So, if you're an employee on a French contract, you're really looked after by the French government. So, if you leave a company and they give you a restrictive covenant, they have to keep paying your salary for the amount of time that that lasts for. So, that would essentially have been like 6 more months of Venatrix having to pay me even though I wasn't working there. So, I didn't have one, basically. But when— because I've got such a good relationship with Elaine, who is the founder of Venatrix, and even though it was like a bit of a weird dynamic that like I'd worked there for so long, we were best friends, and then I was going to kind of start a company that was ultimately going to be a competitor. I really did it— I really wanted to do it in the right way and not like steal any clients from Venatrix. So when I first started, when I did a LinkedIn post about the fact I was launching my business, naturally a lot of my old clients did get in touch, but the only ones that I engaged with were ones that, like, Venatrix hadn't recruited for, for, like, years and years and years that weren't really, like, clients anymore. And then for those first few months, it was just loads of posting on LinkedIn to generate inbound, but also cold outbound to new companies that I'd never worked with before. And a lot of the initial clients did come through like referrals and reputation, probably from people that I'd worked with over the years, but not directly from the client base of my old company.

Yeah, I got you. Yeah, you didn't— on the last day you didn't export all the Venatrix clients and then just crack on. Yeah, it's just— yeah, like I'm sure you may have had conversations, see it, but a lot of that stuff happens a lot of the time. And I do think there's both like a contractual piece that we need to respect and then also a moral piece. Which we're talking about there. Like, I'd rather just play with a straight bat, do the right thing, and start building my business with what I'm doing versus just try and take loads of clients from my ex-employ— employer.

Yeah, and it's more exciting if you generate your own new clients because what I didn't want was just to be like the same, you know, Venatrix point two. I wanted it to be different. So I think that that was also never my like intention or what I wanted to do anyway.

Should we talk a bit about— because this initial period, there was some lessons here, right? So I think at the start you really focused on the European market. Talk us through the thought process there so we've got a bit of an understanding where, uh, what your goal was to, you know, bring on your own clients. Of course, I think a really great sign that you're a great recruiter with a great reputation is that when you go out on your own people do then reach out to want to work with you. Like, I think that's a really good signal and sign that, uh, like, that's when it can really show up, like, all of those hard work. Because it may not just be people that you, uh, worked with recently, it could literally be like 5 years ago, 6 years ago. Like, a lot of people can come out and say that they want to try and help you out. What was the thought process around the European angle? Was it that I'm based in France, I might as well recruit in the local countries, in France potentially? Like, talk us through that thought process there, because I think there was a bit of a good learning here before we got into 2025.

Yeah, so it was probably very naive, to be honest with you. Um, but in the months leading up to starting, I went to a few SaaS industry events in Europe. So I went to one in Barcelona, one in Madrid, uh, one in Paris, and Even then, I kind of very— was very quickly realizing that the amount of funding, first of all, that these, uh, the companies in these countries have is a lot less than in London and the US, or UK and the US. Um, and also if you don't speak the native language to like a really high level, it's going to be quite difficult to get in with the decision makers. Um, so I kind of already started to feel like that, but because I really didn't want to start a company that was going to be a direct competitor of my old company, and because I was living in France, and also, whenever we got a European requirement at Venatrix, we always really struggled to fill it, and it didn't seem like any other recruiters were doing a particularly good job of it. There are companies now that are doing really well in the European space for go-to-market, but back then, there weren't as many, or they weren't as visible on LinkedIn, maybe. So, I just wanted to try something different, basically, but I was very quickly humbled and very quickly realized it was just not going work. I like, you know, went to these events, really struggled to build like relationships with people at the events, and then when I tried to do cold outreach, it was just like a disaster. So I was, I was just like, there's, you know, it was a nice idea, but it wasn't going to make me money or help me like establish my company and get it off the ground. So I decided to kind of put that on pause and just do what I knew I could do where I had an established network and credibility and go back to London instead of focusing on the European markets.

How long did you give it, do you think? Because it can be hard, right? Especially when you're now on your own, you've got to try and figure out yourself, like, right, have I actually given it a good enough go to be like, actually, I don't think this is quite working, or am I maybe stopping too early? How long do you reckon you gave it?

Yeah, I literally did it for like a month, but during that month I was getting inbound from London, like loads, and I was like, why am I wasting my time trying to do this when there's so much business here that I could be doing straight away. So it kind of like organically shifted as well.

Yeah, I just think there's a really important lesson there where, of course, for a lot of people you can't get straight to working with your existing client base, but that doesn't mean you have to massively deviate from like what you know and what you built your reputation, uh, of doing. So coming back to like what you really know like the back of your hand that you've done for years and years, because I think this is what I said to you, uh, before we, uh, had this conversation, was like, you've been doing like SDR recruitment for over a decade. Like, that is just so many reps. Like, think about how many interviews that you've gotten SDRs, how many SDRs you've spoken to. Like, it's crazy. So it isn't a really great lesson there where actually, can we try— I think it's smart to like not deviate from what we know and what we're an absolutely world-class app. Sometimes you have to be like you just said, you didn't want to just be a direct competitor straight away to your old employer. Like, there's some of that going on, but I think there's a really good lesson there for people. Should we, um, I think the, the other thing to, to mention here as well is if me and you were— when we really felt like we started to get things going, when the little one started to go to, uh, crèche and we had all of that sorted, like, if me and you were to meet up around that time and I said, oh, like, huge congratulations, Sophie, launch your own business, like, what's the plan? Like, I'm sure you had people say these types of things. How, like, how would you have spoken about it?

Um, I probably would have said, as long as I can generate 20K a month, I'll be happy. And I honestly didn't have a plan. I'm not a planner and I'm not very organized, and that's something that I am in terms of the back office and like the strategy. When it comes to like booking calls in people's diaries, yes, I'm on it. Um, but I— that's something I'm really trying to work on this year. Um, but I would have just said, as long— I would have just said, as long as I can make $20K in revenue a month, um, that'll be a good outcome for the first year. So I wouldn't have heard things like, want to grow a team, really excited to build something No, I had quite a few conversations with investors before I started about like, we could help you set this up and then the plan would be to scale it out. And I just, in my gut, that never felt right. Because I think that one of the reasons I think I've been so successful in my first year is because it has just been me doing everything. Because I think one of the keys to like being a really good recruiter is being able to translate the message from the company to the candidate in a really credible and authentic way. And I think sometimes that gets lost in communication when there's like loads of different people working on one role. And I also think because recruitment is such a tough job, and it does require such a high level of resilience, and, you know, you get a lot of rejection, people let you down all the time. When you're working in like a big company with a big team of people, sometimes like internal politics and frustrations can also become problems that end up affecting the client. And I think because I've done it for such a long time, because I do understand the nature of the highs and lows, because I've got a really thick skin, none of that really comes into play when it's just me doing everything. So, and when I started it, that was kind of what I knew all along. I knew it was just going to be me. I knew that because I, because I have a 2-year-old, well, he was 1 then, um, and like, you know, I'm living in the south of France, I'm kind of running this as a lifestyle business to begin with. I also don't, I don't want anybody to be accountable to, you know, to me, and I don't want to be accountable to anybody else. So that was honestly never the plan. And even now, I still don't feel like I want to hire anybody. I work with some really good, like, freelancers and partners for parts of the business that I can't do myself. But in terms of the actual recruitment, I think one of the reasons it is being so successful is because it is only me that's doing it.

And have you found that, like, hard to stick to? Because we spoke about this, like, I've— like, we have nearly 100 solopreneurs in a community we have at Hector, and I speak to a lot of solo founders, and one of the hardest things is being really clear on what it is that you want. I know it sounds really obvious, but it is a deep question. Like, it's something you have to really reflect on and be have self-awareness to, to be like, right, this is actually what I want. Versus you shared to me how competitive you are. You can be competitive with yourself, you can be competitive with others, but it can be hard today to not log on to LinkedIn where you spend a lot of your time, or wherever, compare how others are getting on. Maybe there's another old colleague that you used to work with that you think you're better than, and they seem to be doing really well and they're growing their business. Oh, actually, maybe that's what I want. Or like, that can be hard for a lot of people. So have you found that hard on this journey where maybe sometimes if I did catch you one day and I said, oh, Sophie, what's the plan with the business? You're going, actually, you know what, I'm thinking about growing this thing. Like, have you found that hard? Like, has that shown up for you?

No, I'm really secure and confident in the decision that I've made and doing it just me for now. I'm not gonna lie, I really miss the after-work drinks. Like, that is really hard. Like, when it gets to Friday, and you've had like good things, bad things happen in the week and you don't have— because that was one of the best things about Venatrix before COVID We had a really social culture and that was something that I loved about it. And I think that sometimes I find difficult, especially because where I live in Nice, it's not really like a, you know, B2B type environment. So, I don't really have any close friends that are like also running their own businesses or, you know, even like working in sales or recruitment. But I'm really lucky that I do have really good friends in the industry. So like Tara, who I used to work with at Venatrix, we WhatsApp each other all day, every day. And my sister Holly, who's a full enrich, we're really close and she like fully gets it and I fully get what she's doing and we talk about work all day, every day. And then also obviously Elaine from Venatrix, we're still like super close and speak loads and we even give each other advice about things to do in our own businesses, which is funny because we're competitors. But yeah, so I think I'm lucky that I've got some really solid relationships. That I can lean on. But I do— I've joined a co-working space recently, and I'm like really trying to go in 3 times a week because I do think just being in an environment where other people have got headsets on and they're on Zoom and they're having like business conversations actually really motivates me. And so I'd say more like it can be a bit lonely, but I still wouldn't change it.

Yeah, so it's been more that versus you wrestling with actually, do I want to grow this thing? What do I want? Like, yeah, it seems like you've been really like you said, secure in your thinking, you know what you want. I just think, again, that's a really important lesson for people. Sounds obvious, but I think oftentimes when I speak to people that maybe have started to try and grow their business, and if we're having a really honest conversation, they've gone down that path because they felt like they had to, or they didn't have a clear— they didn't have clarity on what they wanted. So then when they did have a lot of money sitting in the business account, it's like, well, I guess we should hire people, I guess we should grow, right? The other thing I just wanted to ask you before we get into a bit more of the particulars of how we've achieved some of the things that we achieved in this first year is the other thing that I think can sometimes hold people back. And that is, you've been doing the same market, although there's been some changes in the last few months with, with New York, for a really long time. So how— my question for you there is is how have you not got bored? Like, how have you really stayed disciplined and motivated? Because that is one of the hardest things as well. Like, I think one of the big reasons why you're going to keep being successful is like you've been doing this one thing in this one ecosystem, this one industry for a really long time. So just think of that compounding effect. And I'm sure you've seen people at your time with Venatrix where people, you know, join and they just, they struggle to really, you know, reap the rewards of all that compounding because maybe they decided to leave or it wasn't for them, but you stuck at it. You've like been doing this for a long time, and I think again, when you go out on your own, you can get distracted a lot, whether that be the tools that you're looking at, or actually let me try this and let me do this new thing, versus just doing the thing that you know you need to do consistently every single day. How's that been for you? How have you really done— achieved that?

So I think the fact that I have stuck at it for such a long time and done the same thing for such a long time is the reason that it has been so successful so far with me starting my own thing. And advice that I would give to anybody that's like starting out in their career is if you do want to start your own business one day, especially if it's recruitment, it is really good to have a niche. Because number one, you just know what you're doing and it becomes second nature. But number two, people build that association with you. So pretty much every single inbound lead that I get starts with, I've been told you're the person to contact, re— SDR recruitment or finding an SDR role. In terms of getting bored, this might sound a little bit fluffy and cheesy, but when you work with, like, young people that are at the beginning of their careers, or even industry movers that are doing something they don't really like and want to move into sales because, you know, they want to earn more money, they want a more dynamic work environment, they want better career progression, you, like, genuinely go on a bit of a journey with those people because you— part of it is, like, placing them in a job. But you're also giving them so much coaching and advice throughout every step of the interview process that really helps them start shaping the type of salesperson that they're going to become. And that in itself is such a buzz because they've all— because especially because it's sales that I recruit for, you know, everybody's got big personalities. You're like WhatsApping them pretty much all day, every day until the point where you place them. You build really close relationships. And then when you see them flourish in their careers. Like, so many people that I've placed have gone on to become, like, founders, um, you know, VPs of sales, account executives, um, loads of people that we placed over the years at Venatrix now engaged to each other and have, like, got married, had kids. So, like, you, you kind of really helping people at the beginning of their journey, and then you watch them go on to achieve great things, and that genuinely gives such a buzz that I think makes— keeps it fun and, and you know, I genuinely love what I do, and, and that's why I have done it for such a long time and can't see myself really ever doing anything else.

Yeah, I can, I can see how that can be really addictive and really fulfilling, like doing that part of the other— just final part on this then, because I think this is also part of it, is what about— because we spoke about this— you've also remained disciplined with the, the particular type of role that you focus on. As well, right? So this sort of SDR, this entry-level, um, part of the, the sales career— how have you found being disciplined with that? Because I'm sure there's been times where you're like, well, I've got this, I'm really focused on this, this is what I'm excellent at, I've got these people that are progressing their career, they're now account executives, they're now, like you said, VPs of sales, I could do that, I'm going to start picking up those roles, or start telling people I can also do that. Talk to us a bit about that, because again, this is the discipline part and the focus thing where, again, I think this is a real cool reason why you've really achieved great things so far, like you really remain disciplined. But have you wrestled with that at all?

So obviously the fees for AEs and VPs of sales, for example, are a lot higher than they are for SDRs, um, but the volume that you get with SDRs is higher. And again, because I have such a strong flow of inbound from both candidates and clients for the type of business that I'm running, where I don't have like massive overheads, loads of staff to pay, a very expensive office that I'm renting. I don't really like need to chase those bigger fees because I've got enough demand that's generating me enough revenue from doing the thing that I enjoy and that I'm really good at. I have placed a few AEs since I started the company with like companies who I've placed SDRs with that are like, do you think you could find us an AE as well? And all of those candidates came organically from LinkedIn. But if it was a more like complex, I don't know, like a headhunting style search, honestly, I just wouldn't know how to do that. I don't use LinkedIn Recruiter. I don't use like any sequencing tools. So if you said like, we need a, you know, enterprise AE for this specific type of AI product that's been, you know, in the industry for 10 years, I wouldn't know how to do that. So it would be like, I, I would— if you came to me with that requirement, I'd say I'm not the right person to help you find this person because it's not my skill set, it's not what I'm good at or what I know how to do.

Again, that's like, honestly, that's like superpower you have, Sophie, because you remain in discipline, you know what you're really good at. Like, when you go out on your own, these are easy, easy things that you can end up saying yes to. Like, so I think again, that's a really great insight for people. When you're on your own, a really important part of it is really knowing what to say no to and sticking to that, versus a lot of people that I've interviewed and met early on, they can fall into that trap of saying yes to a lot of stuff and then figure out the hard way, like, actually, no, that isn't what I'm good at, that isn't what I want to do. Because as you said, for people that maybe don't know this space, a really example way to put it in recruitment terms is, you know, Sophie's really focusing on this graduate level part or the entry level part of getting into recruitment and then, you know, these people can become principal recruiters or, you know, directors in recruitment businesses. It can be very tempting to see the salaries and the fees for that and actually go, actually, I'm just gonna do a bit of that as well. But you remain focused and, uh, stay disciplined on that. Should we talk about how come— because one of the things that has been a bit different is you taking this opportunity in New York. But at the start you didn't. So give us a bit of insight here then. So you shared with me that your world, as we said, I think we've learned you're someone that's very discipline-focused. You know what you want to be doing. London, SDR recruitment, that's what you went back to, and we really started to reap the rewards for that. And when you were getting US requirements, you was passing them on.

Yeah.

How come? Like, why did we— because that then changed. So like, what was the thought process around, I'm not sure I can do US SDR recruitment? Like, what was the thought process there? Like, why was you referring it to other people?

So honestly, it was because of my son.

Okay, that's fine.

I just thought I'm not going to be able to work US hours and it's just going to be a complete disaster if I even try, because he goes to nursery from 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM, Monday to Friday, and 5:00 PM in France is 11:00 AM in the US. So I was like, I'm just not going to be able to make it work from an hours perspective. And I think, again, had so much demand in London, I was like, I don't really need to do it. But then, and I was actually referring all the business to Venatrix. And then I got a requirement from one of my best customers of last year that took on like, I think nearly 15 SDRs me in London to find 5 in New York. And because I like really understood that business, had a really good relationship with the founder, knew exactly the type of people that they were going to be looking for, it just— something in me was like, you are literally an idiot if you say no to this because of the working hours. Like, that's just stupid. So I was like, right, I'm gonna say yes and I'm gonna make it work come hell or high water. It was also in the month of August, which is when the nursery in France is closed because the nurseries in France have school holidays, not like in England. So we basically moved to my boyfriend's mum's house, because she's amazing and like really hands-on with the baby. And she just like looked after him for me, essentially, with the help obviously of my boyfriend as well, while I did all my US calls. And I found it so surprisingly easy to find the candidates to, you know, I actually really liked just doing like massive call blocks all afternoon. And yeah, then ended up placing the 5 people and then obviously did a load of LinkedIn posting about that. That in itself generated me more clients. And then I was like, right, the US feels good. Going back to your point earlier about it getting boring, you know, just doing the same thing for such a long time, it felt like something new and exciting as well. So I was like, I'm gonna double down on this and make this part of my business too and focus on London and New York. And now I've just placed 2 in Boston. So now that's a new market that I'm going to be going into as well.

So can we— so whenever I— like, easily one of the standout things in 2025 was the amount of UK, Europe recruiters that were taking their focus, skill set, experience to the US market. Whenever I speak to someone that's looking to make that change, I say to them the, the biggest trade-off, because there's always trade-offs, is personally, if you're doing it from the UK. So just help us understand what did that actually look like. So you had the, the support around you, which is absolutely amazing, which I'm sure extremely grateful for. So what— how did you like approach your day then? Because I think this will just paint a bit of a picture of the realities of it, because I can imagine it was hard. So you were saying, so the time zone difference was 5 PM in France was 11 AM in East Coast US?

Yeah.

Okay, so basically, would you what was like the work pattern? Like, how did you approach that? Did you have a break and then like got back onto your call blocks from like 8 to 11? I don't know, how did you approach that? Just talk us through that.

So I still had UK clients to work with, so I wasn't like just doing the afternoons, for example, because I still had to keep up with all of my business in London as well. Um, but I was just really intentional about call blocks. So when I, when I'd be booking in times with candidates, I'd give them just like very clear times that I could I could speak, and that would— some, some days I would literally be interviewing like 10 candidates in a row from like, I don't know, 2 PM till 10 PM, with a few other bits thrown in as well. But I'm so lucky that I work from home, so even if you are doing like a massive chunk like that, you're still like in the comfort of your own home. You're not worrying about like a commute at the other end of it. You're, you know, you can like go and take a quick break if a call finishes earlier than expected, and you're again in your home environment. So I'm really lucky from that perspective. And I also found with the US The best candidates, they're just like so motivated and driven to get a job that I'd be saying to them like, "I can only speak to you before 12 Eastern time," for example, and they'd literally be logging on at like 7 AM their time so that they could speak to me before they went into work. So, it was a bit of like, you know, both sides doing what it took to get the calls done, get the interviews arranged, and make it happen.

And then what, like, what was your— was there anything else besides the hours that you thought, ah, the US would be really different in this sense? Or was it just the, the unfamiliarity, like, because you haven't done it before, that you like didn't go straight into it and did it yourself? Like, because, you know, when we spoke you said there's actually been some really great surprising positives. Like, you just mentioned that the people that you're interviewing for roles are really optimistic, positive, they have that American ambition. That's been really cool. Like, what actually has also surprised you about working in this market? Because like you said, you've always done the London, so there's, you know, they're two completely different cities there that you've been focusing on, and you must have thought it must be wildly different. How are they— I don't know, like, what are some of the things that maybe you assumed would be different that, that wasn't?

Um, I thought maybe US candidates would struggle to build trust with a UK recruiter based in Europe. But I very quickly found that wasn't the case. I think in the US, and this might be wrong, but it's just my experience, they're not used to recruiters helping them as much. So, I think in the UK, recruitment has a stigma attached to it more than it does in the US. So, candidates can, even though it's more common maybe, but candidates can be a little bit skeptical of recruiters, whereas in the US, they're just so grateful for you helping them. I've had the nicest messages ever from US candidates that I've placed saying, like, thank you, and how much their lives have changed, etc., etc. So, I thought maybe that would be a challenge, but then it turned out it wasn't. This, again, might sound like a really ridiculous thing to say, but I think when you do this type of recruitment, you need to, like, really understand geographies of places, because you need to know, like, is it realistic if a candidate lives here that they can commute into an office in Midtown Manhattan, like, 4 days a week? And with London, I know every area like the back of my hand, and I completely understand, like, if you live in Clapham, yes, it's realistic, whereas It took me a little while to get used to all of that dynamic in the US, and I remember my first client, they hadn't opened their office yet, and he, the guy was like, the founder was like, yeah, it's going to be in Manhattan. So I was saying to all the candidates, yeah, it's going to be in Manhattan, and they were like, yeah, but where in Manhattan? Then when I went to New York, I was like, oh my God, it's actually massive. So now that's like saying someone, the office is going to be in London. So yeah, that was like a funny thing. And also again, graduate recruitment, understanding like the ranking of the universities, you can immediately look at a CV and be like, right, that's a really good uni, that's going to stand out to this decision maker. Whereas in the US, you've obviously got the Ivy Leagues, which everybody knows about, but then the other ones, it took me a while to be like, okay, this is a good one, this is a good one. Um, so yeah, those two things.

Really great point on— and this has come up a lot actually— that you say around the geography piece. Uh, really overlooked. And sometimes people find themselves just learning the hard way where you end up talking to someone about a position, they're like, that's just— there's just no way I would drive there, like the traffic or it'd be so bad. And sometimes you can only learn these things by having those conversations. But I've spoke to a lot of recruiters where they've taken that really seriously, almost gone to Google Maps and like really mapped out what journey is possible, is it realistic, and taking that seriously. Because I think when you do get that wrong and it's like really obvious, that's where you can really show that I'm a European or UK recruiter than US market. Do you know what I mean? So yeah, I think that's a really great insight, and it's like really common when— from a lot of the conversations that I've had. So for anyone who is on that journey, don't overlook that. Like, just, just geek out on like what commutes are possible, what isn't. I mean, we have AI now, like you, you could probably use that to your advantage. But it's a really good point that you said that. So that's a great story that he was advertising an opportunity in Manhattan. It's like, that's great, that's a great example. Yeah, it's a lot of people go through that. What about what's been— I've got here, I may have this wrong, Sophie, but obviously a big, a big pull for people for the US as well. I don't know how this has been for you, is, is twofold. One, uh, the competition. So if you think of the US economy I mean, there's, you know, certain states in the US have a larger economy than the, the entirety of the UK. So I mean, it's absolutely humongous. But if you were to look at the amount of people in the US versus recruitment agencies and do the same in the UK, it's drastically different. So I think a lot of people are pulled to like, uh, the lack of competition in the US, or that being felt. And then two, the earning potential. Obviously, if you're doing New York that comes with salaries and what that looks like, that could be, you know, very different to what it might be in London. So how have you found, one, the competition, and then has the fee part of it also attracted you, or you've found a nice, um, positive experience there as well?

So with my US clients, apart from a couple of new ones that I've won more recently, they've all been companies that I've worked with in the UK. Um, so the fee structure has been quite similar. But I think the thing that I do genuinely like about it the most is the caliber of the candidates. And I think we spoke about a bit about this when we spoke last time. They're just so, like, motivated, up for it. They make things happen. They've all got really impressive CVs and track records of things that they've done while they've been studying, you know, internships, work experience, sports teams. So, I just genuinely, like, really love having conversations with candidates in the US. And then, from a competition perspective, there's definitely competition out there. There are, like, other companies doing exactly the same type of recruitment that I do that are way more established, been around a lot longer, have offices there with, you know, people in, going to meet clients face-to-face. But that's exactly the same in London as well. And something that I really believe is that, like, the market is big enough. For loads of recruiters to be successful. I don't think there needs to be like a trade-off, and I genuinely don't worry too much about competition. I think when I find a client who I know I can do a really good job for, 9 times out of 10, it always works out. If I, if I meet a client that who I don't think I'm the right fit for, I'll always refer them to my competition. So competition isn't really something I think about that often or worry about too much. I think the market is just so big that that, you know, we could have double the amount of recruitment companies. I'm sure we'd all be able to make the same amount of revenue.

Yeah, that, that's fair. That's, um, a great insight. And then just final point on this, I've seen your posts where you've gone over and these types of things. When I've spoken to a lot of people that are doing the US market from Europe, UK, I've often found that that's really accelerated things for them. So they may have, you know, had a lot of meetings on Teams, on video calls, stuff like that. But then when they've actually gone over there, they— that's really helped them just take the relationship to the next level. Or people they've really been able— been trying to, you know, get that first opportunity with or take things to the, the next level, that's happened after maybe attending a conference or actually meeting these people in person. As well as then the geography benefit, the, the ability to talk about, oh yeah, have you been to that coffee shop that on, you know, so-and-so street, and, you know, be able to understand that, the, the locality of things. Have you found that now you've— because I've seen you've had some trips there and stuff— have you found that that's accelerated things or like move things and helps you move things in a really positive way?

Yeah, definitely. I think, um, being able to post on LinkedIn about actually going there and get content with candidates and clients really helped increase my engagement. Um, and I also One, one of my biggest new customers, which is an exclusive client that I've got now that's taken on 5 from me since January and has plans to hire like 2 to 4 SDRs every month of this year, is because I was in New York. I'd been posting about it on LinkedIn. They— I'd had a few conversations with me, but it really— with them, sorry, but it really wasn't going anywhere. And then they reached out to me and they were like, we can see you're in New York. Do you want to come into the office and meet us and talk about how we could work together? But they were in London and they were flying back on the day that I was flying home. So I basically kind of didn't really know what to do because I'd already been there for like nearly a week and I was really missing my son and I was feeling like the mum guilt. I was like, God, it's been so long, like I just feel really guilty and like I should go home. But then I was like, what would like the best salesperson in the world do? They would change their flight, they would stay, they'd go and meet this company face to face and they'd win the new client. So I extended my flight flights, went and met them the next day. Like, the rapport that you get and the relationship that you build from just meeting in person and also seeing their office, meeting their other SDRs, so I could really get a feel of like the type of candidate that they were going to get really excited about hiring, um, made all the difference. Then we signed an exclusive agreement, and now they're one of my best clients. So yes, it made a huge difference. Um, and then when my, my boyfriend basically flew home and he FaceTimed me and the baby was having like a massive tantrum. So I was like, actually, I've done myself a massive favor here as well because I get 2 more nights in a really nice hotel and you're dealing with that.

Yeah, that's a great story. So like, yeah, love that. You've mentioned it a lot. Let's get into the, the tactics of how Sophie really gets the most out of LinkedIn. Yeah, because I feel like you've— just as a point again, like you've been doing this for a long time. How long would you say? Because it's always an important factor, I think, with when we think about LinkedIn. How long would you say? Like, I can't really remember if you was like proper into the content when we did our first interview. Like, how long would you say you've been really consistent with LinkedIn, building brand, personal branding, whatever you want to call it? Has that been for the last 5 years? Has it been less than that? Like, how long have you been at that?

I would say 5 years since COVID happened. I've been consistently posting on LinkedIn every single day pretty much, by the weekends, but now I post on the weekends as well.

Yeah, okay, perfect. So that firstly, this takes a long while, you've been doing it a lot consistently, all that stuff. Where I just wanted to start, if that's okay with you, and then we can go into whatever you think would be really helpful for people from a recruiter standpoint. What do people not see when I look at your profile and the work that you've done on LinkedIn? That, that's where I want to start. So I might go into your profile right now and I the selfies, the pictures of you running, whatever it may be. But what am I not seeing that's happening that is really part of the reason why you're getting referrals, or what you're doing behind the, the content that you're posting that is generating opportunities for you, or is helping you get the most out of it? Like, what is it that I can't see that is happening on LinkedIn that people can learn from?

Um, I think When you look at someone who posts so consistently, it's really easy to think that it's like really easy for them to do that and it's second nature and that like you could never do that because you're just not like them. But the reality is that it is like really, really hard. Um, me, Holly, Tara send each other like posts pretty much most days being like, do you think this is okay to post in LinkedIn? Should I change this? Is this picture making me look too vain? Do you think this is okay for LinkedIn? Like, we, a lot of thinking goes into it. It doesn't just like come naturally. And now that LinkedIn is so much more competitive than it used to be, and the algorithm is like so difficult to understand and like stay on top of, um, you have to be like way more strategic than before. So I think that, um, I think from the outside you would look at my profile and think, oh, it just must come so easily to her, she knows exactly what she's doing, she's got a really good rhythm and flow. But there's a lot of work that goes into it. There's so many mornings I'm like, oh my God, I actually can't think of something to post this morning. And I literally have to like sit there and really think about it, and I'll be like reading out the beginning of a post to my boyfriend being like, do you think this sounds good? And he's obviously not from this world at all. So it's like a lot of, a lot of thinking goes into it and a lot of like strategizing, changing things, you know, even all the selfies, like they work, but do I want to wake up and take a selfie every day? Absolutely not. But do I do it anyway? Because I know the post is going to get more engagement and like build trust with the audience. Yes.

I appreciate sharing that because I'm sure a lot of people would, outside looking in, be like, oh, it's easy for her. What about the thing that I've always found? And look, you can share what you do here, what works, what doesn't, but I think what oftentimes people miss is absolutely a big part of this really working for your recruitment desk, your recruitment business, is firstly actually posting, like, consistently. But then I think what really great people do is then they use what happens after that post to generate conversations, meetings, like the commercial, the, the sales stuff, the recruitment stuff. How do you approach this? So what I'm asking here is, like, if I'm an SDR manager, I see one of your posts and maybe I like it, maybe I'll comment, or maybe I'll just look at your profile. What's going on with that? And do you have something that you religiously do? Like, is that something that you spend a lot of time on? Because I think that's often what people miss personally, or what— that's where I really feel like the best people are getting the most out of LinkedIn is like they're using those signals to, to at least have an opportunity to open up a conversation. How is this something that you do? Like, how, how does that work for you?

So in terms of signals from other people, I'm quite lucky that I get a lot of inbound on LinkedIn from me posting. So rather than a founder of a SaaS company going on my profile and me having to then contact them, they'll just message me direct. So, I'm really lucky in that regard. From an outbound perspective, I would say the main thing that I'm doing that other people could do is if there's a company that I really want to recruit for, I will follow that— the main person from that company on LinkedIn, especially if there's somebody that posts a lot. And you basically click on the little bell icon on their profile, and then you get a notification every time that they post. And then you can start liking all of their posts and engaging with all of their content. Really visible to them so that when you then go in for your cold message or your cold call, you're a familiar face already. But it's really important that you don't just comment like, great post, I agree, or an emoji. You need to say something that either like agrees with what they're saying and the reason why, or respectfully disagrees with what they're saying and gives your own experience as to why you disagree. So I would say I probably have like 10 people at a time that I'm doing that with to try and like warm them up up before I go in and contact them.

Okay, now the thing— you can let me know what you think about this, but obviously the hard part around being so reliant on inbound is that can be quite hard to plan for.

Yeah.

So like, how do we feel about that? It sounds like it's been pretty consistent and these things, but if that's your— yeah, how things work, it's like, right, I'm doing my posting, but no one's ended up in my DMs or inbox that I know I can help for the last 3 weeks. Like, like, how, how has that played out for you?

Yeah, it's definitely not the best strategy, and I've experienced that before because when like the shit hits the fan with the economy, for example, or when COVID happened and everybody stopped hiring, if that is your model, then you're like completely screwed. Um, it's not something that I've had to worry about so far are, but I know it's something that probably will happen in the future. So I think in that situation, I would really have to lean back on outbound. And I'm really lucky that I had so much experience when we were building Venatrix from scratch, and I was like the only salesperson of literally like relentlessly cold calling people all day, every day. And I think that is like a little bit of a muscle that, that you've kind of like built and doesn't really go away. So I would just have to go back to basics and do like a shitload of activity, shitload of cold calls, loads of LinkedIn, and yeah, that would be like the strategy. But I do completely understand what you're saying. It's not like, you know, just relying on inbound isn't the most like predictable way to run a business.

I think that it's just one of the harder things. Yeah, I fall into that category, by the way. A lot of my business comes inbound, but I do think it's like, how can we couple it with that that can just best future-proof pipeline than these things. So I was just curious on like how you felt about that, how you approached it. Do you want to share? Because I think clearly what's, you know, downstream of getting more referrals, more inbound, which I know so many recruiters would want, is, is sharing content. So you've, you know, been vulnerable with us to say that doesn't come really natural and easy, like loads of reps, loads of consistency, loads of self-doubt. Should I post this? What's all this? All of that. But I think you mentioned to me around like pillars or categories of content. You want to just talk a bit about some elements there that might help other people who always come stuck when it's like, I have no idea what to talk about, which I know come— is a real big blocker for people. Or now maybe it's not just that, it's I don't want to just sound like everyone else with AI and just use ChatGPT to write all my, my posts. Like, I want it to actually be a post that I'm proud or want to share versus it just get lost in that. Anything to share there? Because I think you mentioned that the pillar, like, piece to me, or yeah, anything to share that might help people.

Yeah, so I think your content needs to be a mix of personal about you because that's how you build trust and people get to know you, and you also have a profile that's like interesting and not just kind of like corporate feeling and too salesy. And then also it needs to be focused on helping the audience that you're trying to sell to. And then you need to create a plan that kind of fits into both of those two content types. So my plan, and also because the algorithm changes so much, you, you need to accept that like some posts are going to do really well, some are going to do really badly, and you do need to try different things. So for example, I watched a YouTube video on Sunday that said now like the only way to get virality on LinkedIn is to post a carousel. Posted a carousel this morning. I think it's got 20 likes and like 800 views, which is really low for me. But that doesn't bother me because I just know that's all part of the game. You try things and, you know, some things work, some things don't. Going back to the plan, I've got a really clear plan now of my posting schedule for LinkedIn. So Monday is always something like personal and like to do with like me running a business and like how I motivate myself with like remote working or just like running a business in general. And it's good to do that on a Monday because you can use stuff that's happened over the weekend and also pictures from the weekend that may be less like professional or corporate feeling. Tuesday is always a job searching or interview tip, which is directly helping candidates, which enables me to attract more candidates to my profile who might be looking for SDR roles. Wednesday, I'll always do either a LinkedIn post or a video about a job that I'm recruiting for. Um, which again is me trying to like get candidates but also draw attention from other companies to the fact that I'm, you know, recruiting these types of roles. So if they're looking to hire those types of profiles, they're going to be likely to see that and get in touch with me as well. Um, and then Thursday, I always try and position myself as a thought leader in the industry. So that's something to do with like my take on something to do with like go-to-market hiring, interviewing SDRs, SDR pay, hybrid working versus going into the office, just like a topic within the industry that people like to debate because, and an opinion, because if you post something controversial or like opinionated, as long as you're not being rude, it does drive quite positive engagement because it gets people talking in your comments, which is a really good way to get visibility on your profile. And then on Friday, what this is very specific to what I do, but I've started doing like this thing called the Friday Job Drop where I post post all the jobs that I'm recruiting for, because Friday is typically a really good day for applications when people are less busy. They might be like burnt out by the week they've had in their job and be like, right, now's the time to apply for a new job. So that's my structure. Doesn't really matter what it is, but I think it's really good to have a structure because then you don't find yourself every morning being like, oh God, what am I going to post today? And yeah, just having like a schedule that you stick to, I find really helpful. And it also helps you when you're trying to get the picture for LinkedIn and the videos, which can be really difficult, um, because you can immediately think like, oh, this picture would be good for this day, and then you've got like them ready to go.

I think that's a really good structure. I think again, that'll probably be something that people don't see behind the scenes when I just see you pop on my newsfeed. Like, that's— you've obviously developed that over time, and I'm sure it may still evolve, but that's really intentional with what you're talking about.

Well, it has to be. Me and Holly always laugh. We're like, we used to just be able to post a selfie of us on a run and just say something like about motivation that we'd Googled and get like 200 likes, and now you just can't do that because it's so competitive.

Yeah, fair. Can we just talk about— I think there'll be lessons that people can take, but I think this could be really relevant for people that maybe operate in part of, um, the market that you do. But one of your biggest overheads is candidate referral payments. I'm just interested hear about this. The first thing that I'd love to just hear your thoughts on, because it's so referral-led, just an observation I've made when recruitment teams really take this part of the job seriously, that candidate experience. I think a really good example, I don't know if you've seen them, is, um, Callum Lyle's business Add Some Zest. They're similar market to Go2Market, and they really like like, it's— they have NPS in their business and they measure it, and their biggest promoters more often than not are people that didn't get the successful outcome. So have you found that your biggest referrals for other potential great SDRs, BDRs, types of roles that you do, are actually from people that you didn't necessarily get them the job, the successful outcome, but but what you did do is coach them, give them feedback. You didn't not have the hard conversation when they didn't get the outcome that they wanted. Have you found that? That's just an observation that I've made. There isn't always the people that actually get the end outcome that you're helping them with. A lot of the time it can be people that didn't, but you did such a great experience and they're huge advocates for you because of that, that they, they're huge promoters.

I'd love to say yes to that, but the real answer is no. Most of mine are from candidates that I've placed since I've started my company, or candidates that I've placed over the years, uh, when I was at Venetrix. That, like, because when you work with a recruiter, even if they're part of a bigger company, it is very much like a one-on-one experience that you have with that recruiter. Um, so a lot of them will be like, oh my God, you really helped me 5 years ago land this role. Now 'My sister's friend from uni is looking for an SDR role. Can you help her or him?' So, yeah, I probably don't dedicate as much time to candidates I know I'm not going to place as Callum's business does. Because it's just me, I don't really have time to do that. I always try and give some, some, like, constructive feedback that's actually going to help them. But in terms of, like, you know, spending loads and loads of time, they feel like they've had the most amazing experience, then want to refer people to me, I probably don't do that as much bigger company does, um, because I just need to spend my time speaking to candidates that I know my clients are going to hire.

Yeah, fair. Now I appreciate being honest in that. It was an observation. Obviously doesn't play out in every recruitment business, I get that. Um, have you tried to be creative with how we incentivize referrals? Like, what have you found to be the most effective thing? Like, you see it in recruitment businesses, right? Like, rec to recs all the time, £500 or whatever ever, like, have you experimented with this? Like, have you experimented— maybe I know some companies where they might incentivize more client referrals, to be fair, and they might then say, like, if you refer a client to me and I then, you know, place with them, I'll give you like a percentage of my fee for the first 12 months. Like, have you— have we tried to be creative with the candidate referrals, or is it just straight stock? Anyone you refer to me that's successful, you get £1,000 or gift vouchers or whatever? Like, have we experimented here? What have we found to be the most effective?

Yeah, we haven't really experimented, so it's just a flat £500 voucher if you refer me somebody that I place in a job. And it needs to be from like a Selfridges or a John Lewis for like tax reasons in France. So it's very, it's very kind of simple. But I do find that people are quite incentivized by that because I think for like SDR-type hires, £500 is higher than what other businesses pay. Um, and when I was launching the company, um, I, I was like, because I know I'm not going to hire anyone and that's going to save me like X amount of, you know, thousands of pounds every year, I can afford to do a higher referral voucher, um, to help me generate candidates.

But people don't just ask for cash.

Is it all, um, if you give someone cash, they have to pay tax on it, like, legally, because it goes into their account and then they have to declare it. So it's better for people to get vouchers because then they get the full amount.

Got you, fr. Okay. And then just on this, because it might be what the lesson here is, but have you found, like, if we were to really try and improve the amount of referrals that we got from our candidate talent network works? Is it just really sweating all the small stuff, saying, you know, doing what you say you're going to, give the feedback, the communications, all those little bits that you know you should do, doing them consistently, that again compounds, that is going to result in more people referring you and advocating for you? Is it all those little bits that we know we should just be really disciplined with? Is it that versus one or two really things that you do differently? I don't know. How do we think about driving the referrals?

Yeah, I think it's definitely that, giving people like a really good candidate experience when they work with you. And I think it's also that visibility on LinkedIn. It's constantly reminding people that you're there, that's what you do. If they do know somebody, to put them in touch. A lot of referrals that I get, and this is mainly for like client referrals, are genuinely from people that I don't even know. So I'll get a message being like, XYZ has referred me to speak to you. And I'm like, I've never even heard of that person. And it's just because they've seen me on LinkedIn posting consistently about the same type of recruitment all day, you know, over and over again. So then they refer clients to me. Um, so I think it's like high level of, you know, giving people a really good experience but also being really visible in the market that you operate in.

And then just on this, because you, you've mentioned it a lot, the inbound piece— how, what's been your experience of like the quality of inbound? Inbound? Has that been on the journey? Have you, like, over time where you've been more intentional about what you post, clear on what you do? Because I feel like sometimes people, maybe their experience of the inbound that they do get is it's not as good quality, or it can be really hit and miss. What's that been like for you?

So on the client side, it will always be somebody that needs to hire SDRs because that's just like obviously what I do. Um, but sometimes it'll be like a business based in, I don't know, Brighton, where I just don't have an immediate network, and it, and it wouldn't be as, like, quick and seamless for me to do it. So I'll always refer that to another company. On the candidate side, it sometimes is difficult when somebody that you've recruited, that you've placed, that you had a really good relationship with, refers you their friend, and you know that their friend just, like, isn't at the level that you'd be able to place, or isn't quite right for any of the jobs. So sometimes that can be a bit of an awkward dynamic, but I'm always just, like, really honest with people about that. I'm like, for these reasons, and for the jobs that I'm working right now I don't think you or the person you've referred would be a good fit, so you should go and speak to this recruiter, and then I'll refer them again to a different recruiter.

Yeah, see, I think, I think the, the bit to take there is, you know, you're not gonna be able to help everyone, but maybe a smart thing to do is have like a network of people that, you know, you can refer, so you're still, you know, trying to give value and, and be helpful.

Yeah, especially in a recession.

Love that. I think just to round this part out, and then I'd love to just hear some of the more like Sophie's journey being a business owner to round this out. But I think another really great insight for people is like, what's, you know, nearly generated this, um, $800K in your first full year. It took, I think you shared with me, total clients you placed with was anywhere between 20 to 25. I think that, that's like a really good insight for people as well, and probably also one the, the benefits of being laser focused on this market is, I'm assuming, the amount of volume per client that you can get at this part of the market. So I think that's a really good insight for people on what you can, you know, achieve, or what's possible with, let's be honest, not an absolutely humongous client list. So I think that that's really good insight there. But I think the overarching thing that I think people really need to take away here is just how you've been laser focused on like everything that you do and remain really disciplined on, you know, what you do, what you're famous for, your content, everything. Like, you can see the clear golden thread, and I think that makes everything easier. Whenever anyone gets in your inbox, or whenever someone's like, oh, who can help this SDR, who can help this SDR manager with a hire, like, you're so associated with like, this is all I do, this is what I live and breathe. That it's just a really great, clearly fruitful flywheel that's helping everything, right? So like, I think you need to— you definitely need to give yourself really good credit for that because honestly, like, when you go out on your own, there's so many things that can pull you in different directions. But if you remain really focused on that— and I think this is one of the other things that I run into a lot that I wanted your take on— was, you know, being on your own, holding yourself accountable, like like, that's something that I ask you because I know that's something that can be hard. So it's interesting that you've joined a co-work space because I do think one of the— you know, being a solo founder myself, when you do get those wins, you celebrate them on your own. That can be hard. But then also when you're having like a challenging day or you haven't been quite productive as you know you should have been, you're not in that office environment that can sometimes bring you up or like just, you know, help you push through. It's just in your apartment at home, and that's hard sometimes. So what, what's that been like for you? Because I feel like that's also something that, you know, from outside looking in, that you're like pretty consistent with, and you're someone that, uh, may not find that as hard. I don't know.

I think at Venatrix I was always a bit of a lone wolf anyway because I was the only person, like I said, on the business development side of the business. So I've never hugely relied on like a team to motivate me, and I've been doing it remotely for like 5 years now, so I am kind of used to it, I would say. And I am so lucky that I've got Tara, Holly, and Elaine that I genuinely do share the highs and lows with. And because like Tara, for example, used to work in recruitment at Venatrix with me, so she like fully gets it. So I don't really feel that alone. But in terms of like motivation, this is my financial income and I've got, you know, a 2-and-a-half-year-old. I want to, you know, I'm ambitious. I want to like, my dream is to buy an amazing house here in the South of France, have like a swimming pool, an outdoor gym, a bar, a place that all of my friends from London can come and stay out with their kids. Um, and like the only way that I'm going to be able to do that is if I make my business a success. So I've definitely got like intrinsic drive and motivation that keep me from, you know, being lazy or, you know, not giving it my all every single day.

It's a really— it's a really good point that you make. Like you've, you've done so many reps before you got to this point of like now being a business owner and doing it on your like quote quote, yeah, on your own, even though— but he was also doing that a lot of the time with, with Venatrix, with the setup. That's a really interesting point because as you can imagine, that might not always be the case for a lot of people that go from like being in the office team, Friday drinks every week, to then on their own, do you know what I mean? So that's actually really like a lot of the— you probably built up a lot of like muscle tissue there on doing this on your own. It's me or nothing, like I have to do all of this before we got to this point. So that's probably really put you in good head. So what, what would we like to sort of close this out then? Like, what would we say to anyone that maybe has been sitting on the fence, really likes this idea of going out on their own, has, you know, been doing it for a long time for other different businesses, has maybe always been reluctant to take that first step? You know, we've heard your experience, your story the first year. I'm sure we're going to keep building on the success that we had last year. What would you say to that person that's just really like struggling to take that first step, but it could be, you know, a huge positive one for them, but they're— they don't want to be on their own, or they just don't like the idea of, you know, it just being reliant on them. There could be loads of different reasons, but, you know, from your experience, what would you like to share with that person who might take that leap and it might be one of the best decisions that they've made?

Um, this is probably very bad advice, but I would say stop thinking about it and just go and bloody do it because you'll be so surprised as how quickly you can make it a success. Um, that's what I would say. Stop fretting, stop worrying about the worst case scenario, and just start thinking about the best case scenario and just go and do it. You, you need so much less than you think to just get started. The only thing you need to get started, if it's a service-based business in recruitment is yourself.

Yeah, no, bang on. It is. Sometimes it's just direct advice that's, that's the most truest, right? But look, I think— I know I've said it a few times, but generally I think so many great lessons in here for people. But I think this is just such a great story for anyone to learn from. Doing one thing for a long time, becoming and being really committed to becoming really great at it, building a great reputation and, you know, amazing things are possible. So I think really kudos to everything that you've built, Sophie, and I have no doubt that it's going to continue. And I'm sure we'll be seeing pictures in the future of this house that might be on a vision board or is somewhere. I'm sure— I have no doubt that you're going to get there. So I really appreciate you coming on here, sharing, and excited to see where you end up over the next couple of years.

Amazing. Thank you so much for having me on the pod.