In this 15‑minute interview, Hissem Azzouz talks with Emma Head, Creative Development Director at Beyond the Book, about her experiences and strategies as a recruiter during the COVID‑19 pandemic. Emma describes her biggest 2020 challenge – the loss of traditional sales targets – and how she shifted her definition of success toward personal branding, LinkedIn engagement, and podcast appearances. She shares a practical work‑from‑home productivity tip: using a half‑hour timer to time‑box tasks and reduce distractions. For business development, Emma emphasizes sensitive targeting of sectors still active during the crisis, building a non‑salesy LinkedIn presence, and using voice and video notes to convey warmth. She reveals a new fitness habit adopted in 2020 – a Fitbit‑driven routine of running up and down stairs to stay active. When asked about morning rituals, she prefers tea over coffee. In a cold‑call scenario, she outlines a transparent, client‑focused approach that avoids a salesy pitch and highlights her expertise in areas like IR35. Finally, she advises recruiters to align their own goals with their clients’ objectives, asking the right questions to become indispensable partners. The conversation blends personal reflection, actionable advice, and industry‑specific insights for recruiters navigating a post‑pandemic landscape.
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Welcome to the Recruitment Mentors Podcast. My name is Hishem Azzouz, and we're back with another installment of the 15 Minutes with a Mentor series where we speak to some of the mentors from inside the Recruitment Mentors community, and we're asking them 7 questions in 15 minutes. Delighted to be joined by Emma today. So Emma, for those that may not know who you are, if you could introduce yourself and then we'll get into the questions.
Thank you, Hishem, and thank you for having me. My name's Emma Head. I am the Creative Development Director at Beyond the Book, and we specialize in the creative marketing and digital industry. So I have about 20 years' experience as a creative recruiter, and yes, I've gone through obviously this pandemic, but also the credit crunch. So seen a few ups and downs in my time.
I can imagine. Right, so first question, I want to know from you what What was your biggest challenge in 2020? How did you overcome it? And what did you learn from it?
Okay, good question. I think personally the biggest challenge is I'm used to being quite a high biller, someone who hits targets. And, you know, with the pandemic, there's a lot of things out of your control. So all of a sudden, jobs aren't coming in and therefore you're not, you know, although we disbanded targets, obviously, in the height of things. You're not performing or able to perform as you used to. And I didn't realize, I think, how much that affected how I think of myself as a person. So it's, it kind of, I guess, knocked me a bit for six, kind of, you know, thinking how, you know, how successful I am. So, and I think, you know, I have a great team and they're lovely, but, you know, when you're not seeing people or hugging people, it's quite tricky. So, you know, on my side in terms of overcoming it, I try to look at success in little increments. So it's like, you know, put sales to one side and thinking, you know, what else feels like success when the world around you is— Ah, fire alarm. Yeah. So, you know, what else feels like success when, you know, the sales aren't happening because there's a global pandemic. So for me, I've kind of looked at LinkedIn, helping people, kind of building more of a brand. I started getting invited on podcasts such as this. I've done sort of 3 or 4 now, and it's looking at helping colleagues. So it was really, for me, looking at success isn't about just hitting a sales target. It's trying to unpick 20 years of doing that. So, yeah, so I think, you know, looking at what you can influence and kind of what can make you feel good still about yourself if everything around you is out of your control.
I love that. Yeah, no, thank you so much for sharing that. That was great. So, Obviously, you're working from home today, and I want to know from you, sort of, what working from home tip could you share with other recruiters listening to this that sort of has had a positive impact on your own productivity?
Okay, so I think the biggest working from home tip is trying to set time for certain tasks, because I am someone who gets easily distracted, so my brain goes here and there and there and there, so, and that can be great when you're thinking and trying to find someone for a job, but when you're trying to do booking confirmations and you're trying to get back to emails and you've got an inbox in your inbox, you've got a recruiter inbox, you've got your own inbox, you know, there's people and messages coming at you from all sides. I think it can be quite overwhelming, so, and people don't know if you're busy or not, so you're getting calls at all times because no one can see if you're kind of busy, so biggest tip for me is actually my lovely colleague bought me something which helped me, and I don't have it here because I made my desk quite fast today, but it's a lovely big timer, so, and it's a half an hour timer, and you turn it, so I'm like, right, I'm gonna have emails, I'm gonna crack through my emails for half an hour, and I turn it, and I think, right, when that's done, I know I can move on, So I think it's trying to be, you know, kind of tight with yourself and give it, you know, specific tasks and, you know, kind of do them at a certain time because otherwise the day runs away with you and so many Zooms and, you know, and all of a sudden you've not done those important things. So yeah.
I love that. I love the time, and that's great. So I'd be really interested to know, so what Over the last 12 months, like, what has been the most effective way for you to win business?
Well, I think, you know, given the last year, we've, you know, it's about treading carefully and quite sensitively because the difficulty is you don't know if you're getting in touch with a business if they've been really hit hard. So it's quite hard to tell from the outside in, especially for, you know, a prospect. So I think in terms of trying to identify businesses and sectors where you think they have more of a chance of being busy. So that is one, kind of shifting the focus on who is busy in COVID world more so than others, and really brand building. I mean, I know it's been everywhere, but kind of being on LinkedIn more, connecting with people. I've personally put loads of videos up, which I hadn't before, and I've had such lovely comments back. So many people they're liking them, and so it's, and I think it's about brand building but without an agenda. So you don't want to be salesy, so you want to be helpful, you want to be seen as a thought leader, somebody who knows a lot about what the recruitment industry is like. So I think, so for me, it was also being creative with your approach, because you can no longer just phone a business and say, "Can I speak to your hiring manager?" because they're in their homes and they're not going to give you their mobile numbers. So I think for me, I prefer doing business development over the phone, and that's become more of a challenge. So I would, you know, kind of be connecting with someone and then sending them a voice note through LinkedIn, or I've now started doing video notes as well on LinkedIn to prospects. Because I think if someone can see you, they can hear you, they can see your warmth, and you come across as genuine, they're far more likely to, you know, kind of get back to you and respond back to you. So that, I think, for me is just being a bit sensitive, you know, building a brand and being a bit creative with how you get in touch with people.
So I want to know from you, Emma, what habit or hobby did you start in 2020 that you're going to continue in 2021?
Oh wow, for the first time ever I got a Fitbit. Oh wow, that's a Fitbit! It's my new favourite toy and because I think, you know, I'm prone to a, you know, good weather exercise, you know, like if it's nice weather I'll go out for a walk, if it's not I'd rather snuggle on the sofa, so I've had to sort of push myself to to kind of get up and move. So I guess it's more of a habit than a hobby, but I have been running up and down stairs. We have a loft conversion, so we've got two sets of stairs. So I think the neighbors must think I'm bonkers, but I like running up and down the stairs to like, how many levels, you know, can I hit today? And then we can walk around the house as well. So it's kind of, you know, it's, sort of all open, so I'm taking calls and I'm just, I'm walking. So, but it's given me so much more energy. So I'm, yeah, I would say definitely to get up and move. And the great thing about Fitbit, it buzzes to me going, move, move, move. It buzzes you too, yeah. Yeah, come on, get up. Love that. Yeah.
So probably the most important question I have for you, which do you think is better, the first coffee in the morning or the first pint post-work on a Friday?
Wow. I would have to say the first cup of tea. So I like coffee. I'm a coffee— I enjoy my coffee, but the first thing in the morning for me has to be a cup of tea. And I feel I'm a bit of a tea diva. So I've put this on a post before. So someone, if you follow me, you'll know that I like my— I like my Whittard's tea with a loose leaf tea, with a proper, you know, kind of all out, go for it with a lid on top, keep it nice and hot. So I would say, yeah, not coffee, but tea. But tea, I will have the coffee comes in the afternoon to give me a bit of a bing. But my tea is my little happy place. So, but you know, I'm not dissing the alcohol. We all need that at the end of the day on Friday. But like one glass a bath and it just, you know, because we're not used to drinking anymore, it's like, well, hey.
Right, so next question then is slightly different. It's a bit more of a scenario. So I would just be interested to hear how you would approach this scenario. So the scenario is a particular business that you've had on your sort of target client list for a long period of time, over a year, and over that period of time you've had a number of touchpoints with different people in that business. They may have liked or engaged with one of your videos. You may have connected with one of them on LinkedIn. You may have sent an email. You might have even sent a voice note to one of them, but through your candidate network, you managed to get hold of one of the hiring managers' mobile numbers and you call them. They pick up and answer and say, "Hello, who is this?" And I'd be keen to hear how you would approach that situation.
Okay, now this is a good question because I think, as I said earlier, I love talking on the phone, and I think I often do this. It's a bit harder now to get mobile numbers, but granted, when I do, they're like gold dust. So I think you, you know, what I would normally do is kind of not be salesy at all. I'll say upfront exactly who I am. You don't want to, you know, sort of tell them at the end and then hear their crestfallen, "Oh, it's a recruiter." So, you know, it's, you know, I'd say, you know, "Hi, Emma, you know, sort of, we are connected on LinkedIn. I'm a big fan of your brand, you know, and I've been following what you've been doing." So you're talking about them, and so you're, you know, sort of, that first few sentences talk about them, and then say, you know, I'm a recruiter and specialize in X, Y, and Z. You know, I appreciate you may be hiring at the moment, and, you know, it would be great to be able to support you in your growth in the coming kind of months, or if there's anything we can do to help in terms of, you know, we have like giveaways in terms of like what, you know, writing the best job ad or great questions. So it's sort of thinking, you know, from their perspective, what would Could they take something away from the call tangibly? And my biggest thing actually at the moment is, because I do a lot of contract and freelance recruitment, is talking about IR35. So I would often sort of end on a, you know, sort of, I know a lot, I've trained a lot in IR35, you know, if they need any help on that, you know, I've got a short piece that I can give them, I can sort of talk to their line manager. So you're Keeping it short, keeping it a little bit focused on them so it sounds like you understand a bit about their business, and then being very succinct with what you can help them with. I would steer clear from chasing a job. So I think, you know, people's barriers go right up thinking, oh, it's a recruiter and they want— they've seen I've put out a job and, you know, they just want to work the job. So I think it's You know, you're thinking of the long game, so you're trying to build a relationship and credibility. So hopefully that answers the question.
Yeah, that's great. Yeah, that's good. So final question then. I want you to imagine I'm a recruiter, and recruiters will be listening to this, and I'm someone that set my goals for 2021. I'm completely convinced that I'm going to have a better year than I did last year. I've written down my goals. I'm feeling motivated. So I just want to sort of hear from you, what would your advice be to me and the recruiters listening that you think would give them the best possible chance of achieving those goals?
Okay, so I think it's great to have, to be motivated and to kind of know where you want to go, but I think your own goals are one thing and they're great, but I think the key is to understanding what your client's goals are and your prospect's goals are. So, you know, sort of understanding how then you can align your solutions to their goals. So I think it's asking the right questions when you're speaking to your clients. And I think we're all guilty a little bit of, you know, with existing clients, going, "Oh, we know them, we know what they're up to," you know, and we have lovely, lovely conversations with them, but, you know, how much of the nitty-gritty and where their business is going, you know, how many of those conversations do you have thinking you know that their business is like it was 6, 12 months ago. So asking your client, you know, what is their goal? And thinking, well, how can then you help them achieve their goal? And then align what you're offering to that client. And therefore you can become invaluable and build sort of long-term relationships. So yeah, it's— Yeah, no, I really like that.
Aligning yourself with your customers' goals. Absolutely love that. That's awesome. Emma, 50 minutes with a mentor. That's it. Thank you so much.
Thank you for having me. I thoroughly enjoyed it. So for a Friday morning, yeah, it's all good. So, and yeah, I look forward to being a mentor. And if people want to engage me on the platform, then send me a message.
