John Guest - 15 minutes with a Recruitment Mentor

Welcome to the Recruitment Mentors Podcast. My name is Hishem Azzouz, and this is another episode of the 15 Minutes with a Mentor series, which we're releasing in line with the Recruitment Mentors community opening. And in this series, really simply, we're going to ask some of the mentors from inside the community 7 questions in 15 minutes. So today I'm really pleased to be joined by John Guest. And before I ask you the first question, John, why don't you introduce yourself for those that may not know who you are and we'll get into it.

Yeah, thanks, Hishem. Yeah, thanks for inviting me to be a part of this. So I'm John Guest. I have been in recruitment now since 2007. You probably see a few grey hairs on the sides, but they weren't there when I started. But I work for a business called Harper Harrison. I'm the Vice President of Executive Search. So I run a brand focused on the real estate market. And we focus on the US, primarily Texas, but we've also picked up some searches in the surrounding states. Good to be with you.

Amazing. So first question, what was your biggest challenge in 2020? How did you overcome it and what did you learn from it?

So, wow, one challenge in 2020. I think the biggest challenge for, for me was the first lockdown, um, when nurseries shut, having a 2-year-old in the house, my wife working full-time as well as me. And, you know, we were trying to make it up as we went along, and it didn't really work for the first few weeks, maybe a month, to be honest. It was kind of carnage. Who's looking after him? Who's on a call? These calls clash. It was just completely set up in the wrong way. For whatever reason. I don't know why we didn't kind of think of this earlier, but I think what I learned was we then started sitting down every night or every morning and kind of really mapping out the day and trying to get one day in advance, two days in advance, so that we didn't book any calls that clashed. Sounds really basic. Um, who's working when, who's looking after William when, and just try and make sure that expectations were managed. I think in any relationship, be that in the office, outside of the office, all the breakdown comes from mismanaged expectations. So we were definitely mismanaging each other's expectations about how much time we could give to our job. Um, so that was probably my biggest challenge and then my biggest learning. Um, and after we got the system working properly, life became definitely not easy but a lot easier.

I love that. Yeah, I've definitely— getting better at communicating with your other half is a great thing to get better at. That's amazing.

That's something you haven't had to do before necessarily. You communicate on everything, but you haven't necessarily had to work together at the same time, like working on a weekend, really. Yeah, but hey, we got that.

The second question sort of follows on to this, but sort of, I'm always keen to hear this from people, but basically, what working from home tip could you share with other recruiters that has had a massive impact on your productivity. So it might be what you just shared, but what sort of tip or thing comes up for you that's really impacted your productivity, do you think?

I think it's easy. It's been said by a lot of people that the lines between work and outside of work really blur when you're working at home, which to me isn't necessarily a bad thing. If you enjoy what you do and you're consciously working longer hours because that's what you really want to do, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I think if you divide the pie chart up and it's 100% work, you're not gonna be as productive during that time. So for me, the biggest, when I've been feeling my best is when I've had time for life admin. So before I start the day, I'll try and get some things done, get the endorphins going, something that I'm in control of in this world where we're not in control of a huge amount right now. Whether that's, I don't know, clearing out a room, tidying up something, cleaning, like sorting out the garden, whatever. Um, and then probably feeding into that, like building in some time to either go for a walk, exercise. Like, I've spoke to my wife this morning, 12 o'clock, we're gonna go for a walk. So it's agreed, both of us. I know I can build my day around that rather than trying to fit it in, because if you try and fit the rocks in after you've already put the sand in, I guess there's no room. So it's trying to think what is actually important. So the days when I've exercised, the day when I'm feeling better about myself, I find even if I'm working an hour less, I get so much more done.

Yeah, really like that. So this is an interesting one. I know obviously you're sort of in the process of building out a new market, but what, what has been the most effective way for you to win business in the last 12 months?

I wish there was one way, Hishem, I really do, and just do that every day. I think the best way to build out a new market, in my opinion, is to try and come up with ways to give to people in the first instance that doesn't just involve you. Yes, if you're taking good candidates to market and you're doing that effectively, where it actually makes sense to someone to open that email and you can clearly, you've read their website, you haven't just bombed it out to 50 people that might be relevant, might not. That can work and get people on the phone, but I think mapping companies that you want to work with, connecting with as many people on LinkedIn so that they, you're, you're kind of present in their world. When you do connect with them, dropping them a message, trying to make it personal to their situation or something that you've seen on their profile, then just trying to start a conversation. And then whether they come back to you or not, there's probably some recognition when you then pick up the phone. So they don't instantly think, oh, this is a sales call. They think, oh yeah, I do vaguely remember that actually. And that buys you that first 10, 20 seconds to actually start the conversation. That's probably the most effective way. If they're someone who isn't an owner of a business, you can headhunt them, you can talk about their own situation, you can kind of talk about them, which people love, and then turn the conversation later on to find out about their team and how they're feeling about this year and plans for hiring. But I think going in to talk about them or offering them something of value first is definitely the best way.

Nice, I like that. So, interested to hear this from you. What habit or hobby did you start in 2020 that you're going to continue in 2021?

So I, um, quite early in the lockdown went out and bought a turbo trainer for my bike. So, um, it's, uh, what's it called? It's a Kickr Snap. No, for you, you actually connect your own bike to it. So as long as you have a bike, the back wheel snaps in and you have like a dyno on the back and it's Bluetooth. So, uh, you use a program called Zwift Right, so it's a bit like Peloton in that lots of people use it, but it's a bit more like a computer game where you can go through London, New York, Paris.

Oh nice.

Um, I'm not on commission by the way, but there's races, there's open events. They did the Tour de France on there, so I rode a stage of the Tour de France. That was amazing. Then he passed out, but it was good.

Like, really cool.

A few of the guys I work with— so one of the guys in my team's on there, so you can like join up and you ride together. Um, it's just great. You've got different worlds, different events. It's like gamification of exercise.

Yeah, I'm sorry, what's that called?

It's called Zwift. Z-W-I-F-T. There's quite a big community now. They've definitely done well out of lockdown. But, um, I've actually— I think I've done about 1,300 kilometers now on there. And it's all— it's, it's a smart trainer. So if you go up a hill, you know that you're going up a hill. You know, you have to adjust your gears.

It's interactive, hard work.

They've got, um, like the Alpe du Zwift on there, which is the equivalent of the Alpe d'Huez, which is one of the biggest climbs on the Tour de France. So it's, it's pretty cool.

And then do you, do you think, I don't know, are you then going to turn that into like actually biking?

I've been out on my bike a few times as well, um, but I think when you're short for time You know, you don't have to get ready, you just jump on it and go. And when you finish, you jump straight in the shower and then you're back at your desk. So you can kind of fit it in a lunch break really easily. And you also don't have to worry about snow or getting hit by a car.

Yeah, um, interested to hear this. Which do you think is better, the first coffee in the morning or the first pint post-work on a Friday?

Definitely the first coffee working at home. Almost done Dry January now, so beer is— I've actually quite enjoyed not drinking and having a bit of a detox and feeling like I have a bit clearer thought.

Yeah, yeah.

Ask me again in 6 months.

Love that. Right, so next question I want to issue more of a bit of a scenario. Okay, so I want to give you this scenario that recruiters probably find themselves in quite a lot. So I just wanna share, I want you to share with us sort of how you would approach this scenario. So a particular business that you've had on your target client list for over a year, you've had, like you mentioned earlier, you've had a couple of touchpoints with different hiring managers in this organization. So they may have received a message from you on LinkedIn, you may have dropped them an email, even an InMail, just there's been several touchpoints. But through your candidate network, you managed to get one of the hiring managers' contact. Numbers, someone that you have a good relationship with. You call that number, you call that person, and the hiring manager picks up. They say, hello, who is this? What do you say? What would your approach be?

So I mean, I'm building a new market has allowed me to experiment with a lot of these things. So my mind is now ticking over as to which ones work best, but I'd probably say there's two. Am I allowed to give two?

Yeah, absolutely.

There's two scenarios that I think I would use that have a good level of engagement. So if someone is a CEO or an owner or a partner where you know that actually they're not going to really move jobs necessarily, they're running their own thing, you've kind of taken that angle away. I would probably have approached them about a roundtable event that we're putting together. So we're hosting in a couple of weeks our first roundtable event for talent leaders. We're also doing one for leaders in our space in this, in Texas. So approach them about the event, so telling them what we do, but also saying, as part of our role as executive search business in your market, we're hosting virtual roundtable event bringing together leaders in the space to talk about some of their challenges, share best practice, and build a community that can take some of the ideas back to their business. Is that the kind of thing that you'd like to get involved in? Was that the kind of thing that sounds interesting? Just a really open question just to get them talking. And I think most people are deciding in that first 30 seconds whether you're actually worth listening to, whether you can bring value to their world. And not always the case, but the more senior people get, the more engagement they get, the more they get approached. So actually their filter has to be stronger and you have to bring more value to even get past that first hurdle. So that can be a good way of getting them talking. If it's someone that's a director or a vice president or a senior vice president or even a CFO, I'd probably headhunt them. I'd probably say, like, Hishem Azzouz, it's John Guest. I'm a headhunter within the real estate sector. Been looking at your profile, really impressed with your experience, and I wondered how much of an open mind you kept towards an opportunity that would present a forward step. If I had like a search that I was working on, I might then touch on. We've actually got a project that we're working on for a business I'd love to share with you. Is now a bad time? Should we arrange a time to speak? And from that, you're not really giving them an out. 8, 7 or 8 out of 10 people probably keep an open mind. Even if they don't, they're probably intrigued to find out what you're working on and what's happening in the market. So from that point on, you can then find out a bit more about them. Yeah, I think that's the easiest way to open it up.

Nice, really like that, it's great, great advice. So final question is, imagine I was a recruiter who's set their goals for 2021, fully motivated, and hopefully I've written down those goals because that's going to increase my chances of actually making them a reality. But what, and I'm sure you may have been having this advice to yourself or with your colleagues, but like what advice would you give me or for the recruiters listening if we— if I wanted to have the best possible chance of actually achieving the goals that I've set this year, what would your advice be to me?

Stay in your lane. That's been my advice to a lot of people. It's been my advice to myself. And we— I got sucked far too much into the outside world at the first lockdown, and, you know, watching the news all the time and getting addicted to the BBC News website and refreshing to see what had happened. And none of that's gonna set you up to be the best you can be in a day, in my opinion. You're gonna load yourself with anxiety and you're gonna be worrying about things that ultimately you can't control. Now, I'm not suggesting for any minute we just forget what's happening in the outside world, 'cause clearly there's tough times, right? But I do believe that you limit that to a certain part of the day, or a certain time. And if a news story is big enough, it will find you anyway. That's something that I've been practicing, and I promise you it works. News finds me. People talk about it in your WhatsApp groups with your mates, people that you do end up bumping into, or whatever. You do turn on the TV to watch something else and you see it. So it's not like you have to necessarily go and find it. I think staying in your lane, focusing on the things you can control, focusing on the wins that you've had and the success stories and businesses that are doing well. Surround yourself with people that are on that same path because I think we all know that misery loves company. So I think just staying in your lane would 100% be my advice for any year and especially 2021.

No, great advice. John, that's 7 questions, 15 minutes. Nailed it. Thank you so much.

Thanks, Hishem.