Kate Sandy - 15 minutes with a Recruitment Mentor

Welcome to the Recruitment Mentors Podcast. My name is Hishem Azzouz. We are back with another 15 Minutes of a Mentor episode, and in this really short series, we're asking some of the mentors from inside the Recruitment Mentors community 7 questions in 15 minutes. Really excited to be joined by Kate today, but before we go into the questions, Kate, if you could introduce yourself for those that may not know who you are, and then we'll get into it.

Yeah, sure. So my name is Kate. I have been in recruitment for 9 years now. I specialize in permanent placements, have worked in a variety of marketplaces from engineering through to biotech and life sciences, and have had a very varied sort of number of roles from recruitment consultant through to team leader and business manager. And now I am sort of establishing our executive search function in the UK, working in the life science and biotech sectors.

Amazing. So what I'd love— I know we were just talking about this a bit before, but like, what I'd love to hear from you is sort of firstly, what were your biggest challenges in 2020? And how you sort of did your best to overcome them and what you learned from them.

Sure, okay, so it's quite a personal one, I suppose. My biggest challenge in 2020 was actually returning to work from maternity leave into the middle of a global pandemic and also into a new role in a new market. So I guess more relatable would be the new market, so building a new market in the pandemic. How I kind of overcame that challenge was making sure that I set myself sort of, you know, daily and weekly goals that I wanted to achieve, be that like a number of meetings that I wanted to secure with clients or candidate conversations, and really sticking to the basics that, you know, I learned all those years ago when I first started out in recruitment. And, and making sure that I was quite rigid in my approach in terms of, you know, my, like, my, my daily organization and the tasks that I was sort of setting myself. Because I think anyone who's building a new market, um, will know there's a lot of rejection out there. There's lots of sort of, um, days and where sometimes you feel like, I'm not getting anywhere. So, um, Yeah, I think that the biggest thing I sort of did to overcome it, it's not really a huge crazy new way of recruiting, but it was just kind of being, you know, consistent in my approach and really trying to celebrate the small wins, be that, you know, securing a meeting with a client, like I said. And it might not always be sort of coming away with a vacancy, but if it's, you know, an introduction and a pledge to maybe work together down the line, then feeling good about those sort of smaller wins.

Nice, amazing. So I'm sure this is something that you've— this has been an ongoing journey for you, but I'd love to hear sort of what working from home tip you could share that with other recruiters listening to this that you felt has had a big impact on your own productivity at home.

Yeah, I think for me, um, has been trying to get out, get outside at lunchtime. Um, and then I don't know whether that sort of answers your question, but like time, take time away from my laptop, um, at least sort of just for half an hour at lunch, just to walk, go for a walk. And I feel like if I do that, um, I know obviously the weather's not always great, but if I do that, then that sort of sets me up to have like a productive morning and having a productive afternoon because it sort of sets my day up. Whereas when I first came back to work, I'm not going to lie, I would spend just the whole day at my laptop. Yeah, yeah, not really taking like any kind of structured time away from the screen. And I was really kind of getting to the end of the day, and then like, as I sort of mentioned to you before, I'd, you know, go and get my daughter from nursery and then come home, get her to bed, and then I'd be logging back on. And really, I'd be like on my laptop pretty much consistently from like 8 AM till 10 PM.

Easily done, isn't it?

I think, yeah, um, so yeah, so introducing small habits like kind of getting outdoors at lunchtime, um, and also, um, yeah, just setting, I guess, even like 10 minutes to go downstairs and get a coffee. Um, and then I think you'll probably notice yourself, when we last spoke, um, I was in my kitchen downstairs. I've now kind of retreated upstairs. We don't have an office space, but I've made myself, like, you know, I've got a desk and everything up here. It actually kind of feels a little bit like going to work now as well.

Yeah, dedicated space.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, like, it kind of makes the day feel like, right, I've come up here to work now, and then, like, I go back downstairs, then I'm getting a defined breakaway because I was, as I said, I was spending all my time in that space. Which is also like in our home anyway, like quite a social space, like it's our living space, it's a big kind of kitchen area, dining area. So yeah, the days and the days and the work and non-work time was very blurred in the beginning. So yeah, put those sort of things into place.

Nice. So, so my next question is sort of what's been the most effective way for you to win business in the last 12 months? I know it may not be a full 12 months, but maybe you can sort of just think about what, what's been the most impactful in terms of as you've been building out this new market since you've been back? So what's been sort of the best way for you to win business and client develop since you've been building out the new market?

Do you know what? I think actually going and introducing myself to businesses and actually taking the approach of introducing like myself and my services more broadly rather than like kind of going in trying to sort of win a vacancy or like introduce one particular candidate. I think when we did my, um, presentation, you know, before the mentoring session, I talked about having something interesting to like discuss with, with clients, be a candidate or like, um, you know, how you can sort of add value. So I think the main thing I've found is, is just sort of being more open to going in and offering a more broader solution rather than trying to fix perhaps like one problem vacancy. Now, I know obviously everyone has specialist areas that they cover, but if you're just going in and saying, oh, I've got a candidate for this one vacancy, then you're quite limited into what you can offer the client. Whereas if you take that approach that you, you know, you're more interested in, in obviously partnering with them longer term and giving them a longer-term solution, then that's been really helpful. And also just sort of reaching out via email. Obviously, I don't have mobile numbers like everyone does in a brand new and established patch. So yeah, I found actually, like, if I'm— I've not really been having loads of wins calling up the switchboard. No one's working in the office. And so, um, so it's, yeah, just been sort of sending introductory emails and, and LinkedIn, um, follow-ups. And, and I think that's going on to that, following up on— and I think I talked to you about that before— is, is making sure that you do follow up on the businesses that you want to work with. Um, if you've got your target client list, don't just try and get through to them once or twice and then like that's it. Really consistently making your approach and yeah, I found that's been nice.

Yeah. So yeah, I think it's definitely underrated or underspoke about how, how great, how important it is to be able to write like good email copy and things like that. I've sort of tried to spend some reading about it and stuff. I just find it super interesting. But it's something that you can definitely improve. I think sometimes people sort of miss that. Um, okay, interesting. So next question I'll be interested to hear: what habit or hobby did you start in 2020 that you're going to continue in 2021?

Work-wise or whatever?

That can be personal, work, but just what habit or hobby did you maybe start?

I started road cycling.

Nice.

Yeah. So I injured my knee in the first lockdown. So I was never— my husband never sees this, he'll die laughing. I'd never been a good runner.

Really?

Yeah. If any of my old colleagues see this as well, I'm sure they'll find this hilarious. I'm not a good runner, but I've always tried to get out there for a bit of cardio and do like, you know, 5K. Yeah. Hurt my knee in the first lockdown. And so that's really kind of not been a possible, um, option. So I started road biking in April. I did a 50-mile ride in— oh wow, yeah, so that was for a local charity. Um, yeah, I really, really enjoyed it. So that's been like my, my—

I guess you know, any, any big sort of bike plans this year, or like big bike rides that you've been thinking about?

I don't know, I don't know. Well, I'm thinking I'm obviously— so this again, I've said that, put it out to the universe that I've got to decide. I'm not a— I'm not very good at cold weather cycling. So we're in the process of like deciding whether we're going to get like a turbo trainer.

Uh, okay.

I, I think so that we can do— I could do some more indoor stuff.

That's actually come out when I've asked this question. Quite a few people have, um, invested in those and have spoke really highly of them. Actually, which is really interesting. Well, people have either gone, I've become like, I'm doing a marathon this year, or I'm really going to my running, or they've really got into their cycling.

Wow, we're all so boring and predictable. Yeah, I've also upped my cooking game a lot, probably another obvious one. Um, we, we do gusto now, so like, I feel like we eat like loads more varied food, which been great. Um, yeah, that's, that's been the two things.

So probably the most important question, um, which do you think is better, the first coffee in the morning or the first pint post-work on a Friday?

So maybe this is a new me versus an old me. Mum, mum me is definitely the coffee in the morning. That's definitely a 2020 to 2021 habit change. Um, Previously, it was definitely the beer on the Friday afternoon, and I'm sure if, like, you know, I know you're in touch with quite a few people that I know, so I'm sure that if they see this, they'll be like, what?

No way.

So yeah, I'd say, I have to say now, it is definitely the coffee first thing in the morning.

Um, so, so next question is slightly different. It's just more of a scenario that I'd love to sort of hear how you'd, how you'd approach it. So So the scenario is a particular business that you've had on your target client list for a long period of time. Um, during that time you've had several touchpoints with different people, different hiring managers in that company. So they may have received an email from you, you might have dropped them a note on LinkedIn, they may have even engaged with some of your content, but there's definitely been different touchpoints. But through your candidate network, you managed to get one of the hiring managers' contact details. So you call that hiring manager, they pick up, say, hello, who is this? And we just love to hear how you'd approach that sort of initial interaction with a hiring manager at a business that you're, you've sort of prospected or would love the opportunity to work with.

Okay. First question before I give you an answer, am I able to sort of utilize the candidate that's given me this?

Absolutely.

Okay. So yeah, I would go into the call and say like, hi, "Sorry, you know, to call you out of the blue. It's Kate from Vantage. We've kind of been in touch in various methods previously, but actually, I got past your details by so-and-so. The reason I'm reaching out is I really wanted to talk to you about recruitment within your business. I've got 9 years' experience in your area," and sort of introduce my specialism from there, and sort of want to understand more about how we could potentially work together going forward, because I'd really love to work with your business.

Nice. Yeah, so it's a lead with candidate, get credibility in there.

Yeah, yeah, lead with that. I think if you can, it's great to be able to. So going back to some of the things you talked about winning business before, so one of the, a really great piece of work that I was lucky to do before Christmas came in that way. So a candidate that I was dealing with, gave me the contact details of a CEO of a client now, and so I just reached out and just sort of introduced myself on the phone and just sort of suggested to her that this particular person had shared her details with me. And, you know, straight away she was fine, luckily, that they had done so. I also checked with the candidate first. I think that's really important if you are going to do that, that they were happy for me to reference them in that introduction.

Yeah, that's important, isn't it? For sure.

Yeah, so I did that, and, and, um, yeah, luckily it, it led to 3 placements, so it was a good, a good intro. So if you can utilize your candidate network, then absolutely, like, yeah, do it all the time, get the recommendations. But I think, um, yeah, it's always a warmer call if you can utilize that, that lead-in. But if you can't, I think, um, you know, just sort of say, look, through networking, I, I have been passed your details, um, and, you know, I think I've spoken with other people within the business and I understand that you're hiring, and I'm really, you know, confident that, um, I would be able to add value to your hiring process, and sort of introduce yourself that way. Most of the time, people are fine if you do call them, and, you know, you've got your— their number from somewhere.

I think it's what you said, right? I think it's having that mindset of like Yeah, thinking about the bigger picture rather than really sort of doing everything you can to try and get that one job. So, so final question is, I want you to sort of imagine that you're speaking to recruiters listening to this podcast who has set their goals for 2021. They've written them down, they're feeling super motivated, they're completely convinced they're going to have a better year than they did last year. And I would just love to hear your advice on what you would say to that person that you think would give them the best possible chance of achieving their goals?

Yeah, okay, I think I really like this question. I think if you're, you know, super ambitious and organized and sort of sitting down and got clear goals that you want to achieve, how often, you know, you review those goals and that is really important. So Have you kind of broken it down into like smaller goals to kind of reach the larger goals within your yearly target? And also not just sort of, I guess, looking at it from a perspective of by the end of the year, I want to hit this, I don't know, monetary figure or I want to hit this promotion target and then hoping that because you've written it down at the beginning of the year that you're going to do so. I think you have to really make sure that you set time aside in your, in your in your diary, I would suggest at least monthly to review how you're getting on with those goals and putting an action plan in place. I think like everything, well, personally, your kind of targets and goals kind of evolve as time passes. But if you have like a defined timescale and, you know, are really holding yourself accountable to what you want to achieve, then I'd say that's probably from my experience the best way that you're going to achieve those goals is by regularly checking in with yourself. Because I think we all set out really well-intentioned, and I think it goes back to what I was saying before about being organized and structured. When you, you know, when I was starting out in this new market, you know, we say, oh yeah, I'm going to go and conquer the world and take on all these big clients and be the best in the market. But if you don't regularly set yourself time aside to review where you're at with that process, I think it can kind of like fall by the wayside.

So yeah, no, awesome. Great advice. Okay, that was 15 minutes of a mental. Thank you.

Thanks very much.