The Importance of Face-To-Face.

Yeah, the stats support the increased likelihood of winning and retaining business based upon a face-to-face relationship. So I can't quote any off the top of my head, but it's really worthwhile. You do have to be strategic with it. You just can't go out and meet everyone. There definitely has to be clear ICP criteria. There has to be sort of like a few, you know, trigger points to enable to do. You certainly don't just want to be going out and meeting every single person that you're doing business with potentially. Um, but, but certainly I agree, face-to-face is, is going to be huge. So what—

I just want to make sure I get your take on this. I'm just looking at the, the leadership stuff because we might have gone into this. Like, you put their most important weapon is the phone.

What—

like, if I, if I'm— if me and you have like a coaching session and I'm a business owner and I say to you, Alex, like, they're just— I just can't get my team to pick up the phone. We've done the plan, I feel like I've given the— they should know why they're calling, they have a reason to call. Where does your mind go with that? Because I hear this so much, and I think a lot of people feel like that. Or I don't know, where, where do you— I've got a few things that pop into my head, but like, where does your mind go when you hear this?

I— the challenge you've got with culture is that once a culture has taken form, it's really, really difficult to change it. And it's a really like long process you have to go to. Now the truth is, sometimes you kind of have to start again. And it's actually easier to start again almost than it is to try. It's like the small boat versus the oil tanker analogy. Sometimes it's actually easier just to build a small boat than than it is actually to turn the oil tank around. I think you have to be able to identify what your values are in your business. I think you need to be able to translate those values into non-negotiables from a behaviour perspective. And then you have to be able to hold people accountable for that behaviour. And if they aren't prepared or able to hold themselves accountable for the things that you've agreed as a business are your non-negotiables, they're not right for you as a business. And if one of your like key tasks is doing what you said you, like, let's just say doing what you said you will do, or I, you know, or whatever it might be, it's like, if you don't do that, well, then like this isn't the right business for you. So if you come to me with a plan and you say, this is my plan, I'm excited about it. This is what I need to do. It's really clear. I've got clarity of task. I want to achieve X and Y. And then a month later, we're sitting there. And you just haven't done anything that was in your plan and it's not justifiable, I'd question whether that's the right person to have in your business.

Yeah.

Conscientiousness and accountability.

Yeah, like your mindset is like, I'm just thinking of a recent example where your mindset shouldn't go like, I need like better tools or I need better data.

It's the people. It's either a people problem or it's a process problem. If you look at problems, right, it's usually one of those two. It's nearly always one of those two, especially in a recruitment business, people or process. Well, if our process is really, really good, it's a people problem. And as a leader, I think one of the most important things you do as a leader, what is leadership? It's about setting standards and maintaining standards. And every time you see something below standard and you don't do something, don't do anything about it, you've set a new standard. So the challenge is, I think that has to, in a business like that, there has to be a big cultural shift. and that usually means identifying who can work for you and who can't with regards to your vision and your values as a leader and who can drive those non-negotiables. And, you know, get the right people on the bus would be my answer to that. Yeah.

Easy to say, hard to do, innit?

Well, it is, it is. But I always say you've got to do the right thing for the business. And I think that's a really, really good way to be able to kind of— you've got to reject emotional thinking sometimes. That doesn't mean being empathetic. That doesn't mean being like a good human being. Quite the opposite. But I do think also, I think a lot of people just wimp it. I just don't think sometimes leaders, they take the easy option, which is not to do anything. And the truth is, well, you know, what do you do with that? Are you, if you have got ambitious growth plans, you as the leader are going to be the bottleneck. And I think being able to manage your own emotions and do the right thing, even if it's uncomfortable and it's not something you particularly want to do and you have sleepless nights about it. We've all been there, sleepless nights before letting someone go. It's horrible. But sometimes, you know, you've got to do what you've got to do because it's the right thing for the business and right for the other people in the business as well by maintaining those standards.

And this brings us quite nicely on— did a post about the harsh truth in building a great recruitment business is that to unleash high performance, you've got to quickly let go of the C players.

Yep.