The Recruiter’s Guide to Winning on LinkedIn (Without Linkedin Recruiter) with Amelia Rivas

Emilia, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. So happy to be here.

I know you've been a listener for a good amount of time.

Religiously.

So you're now in the hot seat, and we've got a clear goal for everyone listening to this episode.

Yep.

And that is on a topic that I feel like most recruiters now would have at least some point seen some content on it, seen people talking about on LinkedIn, or maybe even had their company invest in training. And we're talking about personal branding. This has been really crucial to your success in recruitment. And our goal here today is really to give people actionable strategies on how recruiters, from a recruiter's perspective, can leverage their personal brand and actually turn personal branding— and we're going to get into what we think that means— into money, into placements, and how it can become a real edge in a competitive marketplace. And this is all whilst doing it without LinkedIn Recruiter, because that— you don't have LinkedIn Recruiter, do you?

I have it, but I don't use it. Okay, so we could save some money and just get rid of Recruiter.

Okay, so you have it, but you absolutely don't use it, don't rely on it. You're not sending hundreds of emails every week to hit your targets, to get leads, to get on with potential clients, new clients. It's all through your network on LinkedIn, which we're going to go into.

Yeah.

So to give everyone some context, you've been in recruitment for over a decade. Most of that time has been at one company called ICP, and since 2015 you joined them as a senior delivery consultant. And from there, really, you've just gone on the awesome journey of climbing the ranks. So you're now at director level. Yeah. You're leading a team of 5, including 3 delivery and 2 that are more in a sort of BD, account management role. But as well as leading a team, leading by the front, you're also now involved in actually this sort of commercial strategy, how we're going to hit our target and different initiatives in that way. Within this, I think it's very important to point out you've built this career whilst also starting a family.

Yeah.

Because that is one of the challenges. You're going to go on maternity leave, and that can be a challenge for people in terms of where their career ends up or having time out of the game. But you took 4 and a half, um, months off, and then now, correct me if I'm wrong here, but you, you work 3, 4 days a week?

Yeah, I'm part-time as well.

Yeah, so you're achieving all this whilst working part-time. Your world is sports, tech, broadcast, and media. Now, that wasn't the world that the team recruited when you joined, but it ended up being the niche that you really built out that now the whole business focuses on, right? So sports, media, entertainment, and that's UK, Europe, right?

Global.

Oh, global. Yeah, very global. And your background is mainly perm, right?

All perm.

All perm. And then I know something that's been a real focus point over the last sort of 6, 12 months, longer, is actually working with companies in a way where what you call recruitment as a service, having different offering models, And best year to date is $200K, billings-wise. Okay, so where we wanted to start, which we think sort of made most sense, is— and I do genuinely believe this, I mean, I started my entrepreneurial journey selling personal branding training, and this was like over 4 years ago now. Yeah. So we want to start with— I'm sure people listening to this have heard people on here talking about personal branding. Firstly, before we get into like what we think is holding people back, yeah, like how would you, from a recruiter's perspective, like how would you define personal branding? Like what does, what does personal branding mean to you? Let's start there.

Good question. I think personal branding, for me, I link it really closely to BD, and I kind of see BD as brand development, not necessarily just business development. I think it was the tipping point for me when I first started doing business development, and I was pretty bad at it. I had no confidence, wasn't getting anywhere. I mentioned in the notes I got a performance review, a warning. I was like, okay, I need to change something. And I think the start of that was understanding my niche. So I had really no focus of where exactly I was going. I was going here, there, everywhere. And then by accident, I really fell into my first client, which was really specific into sports media. Before that, I wasn't doing any personal brands, no brand development, so completely cold. And then from there, I had a genuine interest in this space, and it just naturally snowballed from there through market mapping, posting about what I was hearing, and trying to connect the dots. So it definitely had a business development objective, but it only came from finding my niche.

So it sounds like when you hear that word personal branding, you really view that as a strategy to win business, to— yeah, really, that you view that as a strategy, really, to win clients, and that is a big part of it for you.

Yeah, and sometimes when you hear personal brands, I think the first thing people think of, especially when it's spoken about recruitment agencies, is taking selfies and speaking about yourself. And I think that's, for me personally, it's a small part of it because I'd like to know the clients and customers that I'm human, but it's quite a small part of my personal brand. Most of my personal brand strategy is I know the market, I know the insights, I know what's happening, and I can provide value to the industry.

Yeah, and I do think that is where sometimes people get caught up or struggle because they think it's all that in terms of the selfies, sharing my personal life.

I think it used to be, but I think it's changed. People have gotten done and gone, okay, we know people are doing that for engagement, and they're seeing through that.

I'd probably, like, I'd probably say— I mean, my newsfeed is going to be very different to yours, but I think, I almost think it's gone so far the other way now that that can put people off starting. Because like, if you're listening, you've definitely— like, I think LinkedIn now is wild because like, you'll be spending time on it scrolling before you go to bed. Yeah, you'll be spending time on it on the weekend. Like, it has completely— like, you've been in the game longer than me. Like, how LinkedIn is now, it is, it is 100% a social media platform, and like, people are spending time on it not just in work. Yeah, it— like, they really are. But I do think because there's so much content out there now where people are sharing stuff that's personal, that selfies, insert whatever.

Yeah.

And people know that when they see that stuff, they probably judge it. They're maybe think it's cringeworthy, it gives them the ick, whatever.

Yeah.

And people don't want— because they know that, because they feel that, they don't want to have other people think that about them.

Yeah, it's a confidence thing, right? You're scared of what the other side is going to think of that. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the selfies, but I think when you speak about personal brand with people who want to get into it, I think that's their first image of what that is, and that's quite a hard step to put yourself out there.

And the way that we want to position it, how you would frame it, so if I was in your team, yeah, and I'm, I'm not sure, I don't like the idea of I'm not someone that uses social media, these things. How would you like frame it to me that would make me feel like, okay, yeah, that makes sense?

I think it's start small and be authentic with it. Find something that you're genuinely interested in. I think everyone can connect the dots with something, especially if I give examples from our industry. So have you watched Last One Laughing? With Bob Mortimer.

I haven't, no, sorry.

You've got to watch it. It's a series about comedians who are stuck into a room together and they can't laugh.

Oh, I've seen an advertage. Yeah, it's on Amazon Prime, isn't it? Yeah.

So I did a post about that because I genuinely thought it was amazing, but I found the production company who made it, tagged them in it, tagged the CEO. So then that's something about me, natural, authentic, but with a business mind. So it's just about connecting the dots and finding your own values. Like a girl at work, she loves Star Wars, so she will connect the dots with something with Star Wars. So it's just starting small, doing your interests, because the end goal is to build your personal brand, but to have it convert to real life as well. So when you meet these people in real life, you don't have to be anything different because you're talking about what you're talking about online as well.

Yeah, that's a great insight. So what do you think is what, what would we say are the main hurdles that people are still maybe struggling to get over when it comes to leveraging personal brand as a recruiter? Because there's still plenty of people that, yeah, aren't doing it or aren't doing it consistently, or maybe you're cynical about it, like, no, like, it doesn't work, like, that isn't me. Like, what is it that you think are holding people back?

I think there's some key things to think about before starting. And I suppose, first of all, think about your LinkedIn as your digital shopfront. If people are coming to your LinkedIn and they're seeing you on LinkedIn, how are you coming across? Do you seem like you know the industry? Do you seem trustworthy? Would someone buy from you? If the answer is yes, cool. Like, how do we increase on that from a revenue perspective? And if the answer is no, It's okay, but what can we do to start fixing that? And I think personally for me, when I started posting, it was when I understood my niche. So, and I know that's been a topic on here, niche is good for some people but not for others. So just finding what it is that you're going to be adding value and selling services on. Second thing, who's your customer? So for me, I'm I'm working a lot with C-level CFOs, VP, in terms of the recruitment services, but also from a candidate side. So they're the people I want to be seeing my content. And then the third thing, building your reputation. So if you think about those three things, whenever you're about to post content, they're good things to have in mind. But just start small. Like, what is the worst that could happen? I think when I've done posts that I think are going to be amazing, they fall flat. And when I do posts that I think are going to lead to anything, they've been the biggest ones. So you just, you can't guess what's going to work and what's not.

Yeah, nice. No, well put. I think, yeah, I do, I do think personally, in my opinion, and I've just sat down with so many people now.

Yeah.

And the evidence is there where if you do get this part right, it can be— and it isn't about this versus sales or this versus that, and just do this versus that. It's always like everything, everything works, but can you, can you get it really working for you? And I've sat down with enough people now to know that it works for a lot of people. You've got to figure out your way, what works for you, but it absolutely does work. And I think it's really powerful when we then combine it with good quality outreach and being persistent and following up and on all those, uh, good bits. So let's sort of move into then some of the things that we believe recruiters can do. Yeah, that can really help them get more out of their brand, because I think what's often overlooked as well— I don't know what you think about this, just quickly— is like you said, you felt a lot more confident to share your opinion online when maybe you've had a lot more candid conversations. Yeah, you know, you're committing to a certain niche, you know who you're serving. I think that's a really good point where if you do have those, that part of the recipe, you're going to find it easier versus— because I always remember when I would do training with people, if they were just starting out, that was always a big blocker. It's like, what have I got to talk about? I'm a bit concerned how people are going to perceive me. I haven't got much experience. All these things. But you are, you are building your personal brand through the conversations and offline anyway, aren't you? Like, I'm just a big believer in that. Like, most people listening already have a brand. It's just, it may not, it may look different compared to the next person with what you're doing online. If you're out there having conversations, you're meeting people, you've got a reputation.

And if you're having those good conversations, they're wasted if that, once you put the phone down, that conversation's done. But if you can recycle that and use it in a different way and it can, so things that I often post about, investment, new product launches, topics that I'm hearing about, redundancies as well. So, I think even if you're on the delivery side, make it more candidate-focused, talk about interview prep. If you're doing more BD side, focus it towards the companies you want to target. There's 101 ways of doing it, but it's just starting. But the advice I would give with LinkedIn now LinkedIn hates external links. So I think I started out naturally by resharing links, which worked well a few years ago. Now you get nothing from it. So take the time to read any articles, take out what stuck out to you, and then repurpose it in your own way, own photo, add people onto it. That would be big advice for starting because external links are just Yeah, not working on algorithms.

Yeah, love it. So let's, let's talk about, before we get into strategy— so I know you touched on it there, but obviously we have to talk about, have you got the fundamentals right? And one of those fundamentals is your LinkedIn profile. So like, what, what is, what is there to share there? Because I think you, you view it as a landing page, and I view it like that as well. And I'm— I've— you can always end up tweaking it, but you've got to be, I think, really intentional about what it is that you communicate.

Yeah.

On your LinkedIn profile, and, and it will help when you're out there connecting with people, or at the very least, what I think sometimes people forget is like in, in the modern workplace now and doing business with people, not every time, but I'd argue a lot of the time, if you call someone or email someone, one of the things they will likely do is look at your LinkedIn profile. So you want to make sure that's communicating the right thing. So talk to us about, yeah, like just using, uh, viewing your LinkedIn profile as your digital shop front. Like, what do we need to do there that's important?

And just on that point, one thing I've started doing, because I do email and LinkedIn for new outreach, I've started putting my LinkedIn profile on my email. I want people to go to my LinkedIn. I want them to be the first thing they do. And then from there, I want them to see how many mutual connections we have. It's really, really, really powerful how many mutual connections you have. It shows you're in the right space, right niche, right network, and what you're posting. That's what they're going to see. And who's engaging on your posts as well. I think if you just think of 3 things, they would be the things to think about on your profile.

I love that. And then, are you a big advocate of— I know you're big on the mutual connections, so we're going to get on to that. Yeah, I think that's such a good point. Do you really try and make sure— do you have LinkedIn recommendations and you've got evidence around you doing a good service, or you're not too—

I don't push that that much because I feel you want those recommendations to happen without you in the room. If you— if someone's talking about your reputation through different referrals, I think that's a good organic way. I haven't actually pushed the recommendations on the profile page that much. I think that happens organically in your networks.

Yeah, nice, love that. So really, the things that you really want to be thinking about then, or want to get into a good point then, is, uh, if I look on your profile and I'm in your space, I should hopefully see some mutual connections Do you think people look at those?

Yes.

Really?

Example.

Okay, go on.

I went to a networking event recently and a guy was speaking next to me. I didn't know who he was, but turns out he was the CEO of a company who is recruiting. We got into the conversation. I was like, okay, I'll add you on LinkedIn and then we can take it from there. And while I was adding him, he peered over and he went, 'How many mutual connections do we have?' And thankfully we had over 600+ connections, and then he just went, 'Fair play, we should talk.' Interesting.

Yeah, yeah. I don't know if I— I think I should do that more.

I've seen it on— we've been using it a lot from a recruitment standpoint as well. We've been doing some big projects for sales, and one of the key things that the hiring managers are looking for is the mutual connections these potential candidates have to them, because then they know instantly they're selling to the right contacts. So it is a buying signal. It shows you that you're in the right space.

And then we should be then also, like you just said, I'm seeing there's opportunities for me to look at your content. What is she talking about? And then is there anyone there that I'm seeing engaging with her stuff that again, that I might know? They're sort of the three things that you look at. Okay. Love that. I think then we have to talk about then another fundamental, and I know we've got on one of the actionable strategies here, but we have to be growing our network very intentionally, don't we? That's like the key thing. So like you were saying, you don't use LinkedIn Recruiter.

No.

But the only reason why you can say that is because you're not just connecting with anyone just for the sake of it. You're very intentional about it. So tell us a bit about that, because I think, again, this is probably basic, people heard it before, but are you doing it? Are you just connect, connect with anyone, or are you being very intentional?

And I think this is why I deliberately just use LinkedIn, because if you're using inmails, it's really easy to put the messages out, but are you going back and connecting? Is that person being added to your network? So I stay on there and I connect, no message, just connect, no message, and then follow up after that. So you can do 100 connections a week, I think. And if we go back to the niche, the network, the reputation, if you know those bits, you know who you want to be going after, you know who you want to be connecting with. So you could do it strategic. It could be one week, I want to be connecting with VP of Sales in the US within sports tech, and then another week it could be going on to a different region. So building your circles, and then it all compounds, and then you've got the mutual connections from there, and it grows and grows and grows.

Nice, love that. So if I'm in your team right now, is that something that you're like targeting and like making sure they connect with— I think it's like 20 people a day now, or something like that, I'm not sure.

They take the mickey out of me because I don't use Recruiter, and I call it old school LinkedIn. I'm like, use old school LinkedIn. I feel— I genuinely feel it's better for searching as well, for the Boolean searches.

Really controversial.

Yeah.

Okay, but if you're listening, if you're listening right now, you, and you haven't got like a minimum target each, each day, each week of growing a network with insert X that should be targeted, then, then you should?

Yes, I think be tactical with it. Don't spam, you'll get locked out, and that's not the point of it. If you're growing For me, in sports, tech, media, entertainment, grow it every single day. Use your weekly limits and you'll see all those people are going to look at your profile. That's 100 people a week that weren't looking at your profile before, and it just grows and grows.

Yeah, I love it. And then there will be stats out there, and maybe we should have got them, but I'm, I'm pretty sure if we were to Google right now the percentage of people that would respond if we're like first-degree connection, that's gonna be a lot higher. Versus like an in-mail. Yeah, is the truth of it. And like, let's be honest as well, as you were saying, if you're growing your network and just keeping conversations in LinkedIn Recruiter, you're not actually growing your own network as well for the long term.

Everything's just on in-mail.

We're not gonna have any mutual connections, are we?

Yeah. And then again, from a delivery side, when you're doing your searches, you're having to start everything from scratch instead of going, that person I'm already connected with. And when you're connected Might be a phone number there. I can give them a call straight away.

Yeah. And also, again, like thinking about that mutual connections, like, oh, I know so-and-so, we're connected, who are mutual, are actually there, they might be able to recommend me to this person. Yeah, it's gonna be way more powerful, isn't it? Just really— I, yeah, I definitely wasn't as intentional as I should have been when I started because you just sort of, yeah, want to grow your network with whatever you want to, um, just grow with people. But Yeah, it is so powerful to just really intentionally grow that. So yeah, you have to have a targeted search, or like, how, how would you view it? Would you obviously want to— there might be searches that you have that marry up quite nicely with, on the long term, what types of people do you want in your network? And then there might be people in the short term that you want to connect with that might be around a specific search, or is that how you'd maybe think about it?

Or I think it depends on, on what your role is. If you're just doing BD, just be focusing on the people you want to have a meeting with. If you're just doing delivery, do it for the people in your search. But I've been getting a bit more involved in the delivery and the BD side, which has been amazing for my network because the conversations you can continue to have through that is really, really powerful. And for example, on the delivery side, you can flip it so easily into the BD. If you are searching for a BD manager, go level up, go to the VP of Sales and say, who's the best BD manager you've worked with in the past? So you're getting a referral and then you're— and then you've got that connection. Then you can go, how are things for you? How's the business? So clients and candidates are the same thing.

Yeah. Okay. Love it. So let's keep building on this. So we've thought about our shopfront window. We're intentionally growing our network with the right people. And you've said that— I don't know if you've experimented with it, but I agree with you. I think there's loads of stuff being done on sending a message versus not sending a message.

Yeah. What do you do?

I don't typically, unless there's like a very specific thing I want to say.

Yeah.

So it might be like— the only time I'd use it really would be like, um, hey Emilia, I just spoke to so-and-so, he said like we have to get connected.

Yeah.

Like just something like that. But most of the time I'm not. I just, I just don't— from the stuff that I've seen, I just don't think it makes a difference. Because if, again, take a step back, if we've taken our front shop front window seriously, I might look at your profile before I accept.

Yeah.

What mutual connections do we have? What's she talking about? Is it relevant? If it is, cool. If it's not, then I'm probably just gonna ignore it.

Yeah.

So I think it comes back to that shop front window. So let's talk about— we've got here aligning your posting with your business development strategy.

Yeah.

So like we've got here, I think this is where maybe people start tripping up or maybe have to just figure out themselves, which is you're very intentional with what you share, what you talk about, because you're viewing personal branding as fundamental to your business development strategy.

Yeah.

So we've got here don't just share random job openings or personal update updates. How come? Talk to us a bit about this.

Okay, so it helps me to have a strategy of what I want to achieve in that week, month, quarter, year. So if I know I've got a pitch meeting next week, I want to think about that beforehand because I'm always thinking, what are they going to see on my profile? So maybe an hour before, they might have a look on my LinkedIn, You know, before the meeting, what do I want them to see? I want them to see that I've been posting very specific stuff that's very specific to their world. So if I'm pitching a US production company, a couple of days before, I will post specific stuff about US production industry knowledge. And then when they get there, they're like, okay, Amelia knows what we're talking about. And before we've even had the conversation, the trust, the credibility is there.

I like that. And is there anything else that we're— is there anything else like intentional that you've done over time? Like, I do— that's a really smart tip. So again, looking at what you've got, what meetings you've got ahead, who's gonna be looking at my profile, can I make sure that I'm positioned the right way, communicating the right things? I think that that's a really smart tip actually, to think about that, or the like, at least use that as, okay, well, I know I've got this coming up, let's make sure that I'll talk about X. Yeah, but any other sort of framework, frameworks, or things that you've implemented over time that, like, how do you think about posting? Are you trying to post every day, like 2, 3 times a week? How do we think about it? Have you got a bit of a structure or framework around that?

I think I used to, but now I genuinely enjoy it so much that it happens quite naturally, and that will come over time because I know firsthand the revenue and the connections and the reputation that come from it. But I think if it doesn't feel natural, have a plan, have a strategy. I think it's difficult because there are KPIs now for it. And I think when KPIs are set without understanding the purpose and the outcome of it, it's very difficult to stick to because then you get the transparent post. Oh God, I've got to do my post. It's going to take me ages.

Nothing's going to come from that. What's your experience with it on your team?

We've tried it. It doesn't work.

What did you try and set?

3 times a week.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Why don't you think it worked?

Because we didn't go into the detail of explaining why we're doing it. But now the team have individually seen the outcome that they've had personally within the business of the benefits of it. And now it's like, okay, it's not I need to post, it's I want to post.

Interesting. And what, what, what do you think have been the main benefits that people have seen and gone, actually, I know, like, I need to prioritize this?

Yeah.

Is it literally just placements? Is it the end outcome? Is it people going, oh, actually, yeah, Amelia, um, I have seen some of your content, actually, let's chat?

From the delivery side, now the delivery team are posting because at first I think it felt if you're sales, you post, but it's, it's everyone. Everyone needs to build their brand reputation. Since the delivery team have been posting, we've seen our job adverts shoot up in terms of really relevant candidates, and we make placements like that sometimes where you put the job ad out, the right person has seen it, they get the placement. So that's one thing. I think, um, from my side, I've seen the conversion of— again, when I was at that networking event, of people coming up to me at a network event which is, you know, you go there, you're scared, you don't think you're going to know anyone, and the flip of people coming up to you going, I need to speak to you because I've seen your LinkedIn, that is just— yeah, a bit of a mic drop moment.

Okay, so yeah, I think— and then did you do— do you feel like you did a good job of when we had those wins that you shout about them? I think that's why I always used to say to people, like, if even if it's a small win or you have wins like, um, like you experience, that you communicate those and share those with the team?

Yeah, as much as possible, um, because then when they're seeing themselves, they're hearing from the team, it's like, okay, I'm gonna try this, because they know the outcomes of it are gonna be good.

And what do you think about the sort of quality versus quantity piece? Like, if I'm listening right now, yeah, 3, it just sounds way too much a week. For me, I think, yeah, as a minimum you want to be sharing one post a week that isn't a job. It's the entire focus of it is for it to be useful, valuable, educational to the people that you serve. Yeah, I think the good stuff can still happen from doing that once a week. Yeah, but like, how do you think about that?

Consistency is key, right? In the ideal world, you're doing 3 or 4 posts a week, but if that just feels so overwhelming, start small and just think it What is the value from this content? When people see this content, what are they getting from it? So I think start there. Quality is definitely more important than quantity, but ideally you want both.

Love it. Okay, I've got here, peacock your knowledge. Talk to me about that.

I think it's linking back to, um, the strategy with the client meetings. That information is in your brain and we're hiding it. Especially before a client pitch, peacock it. I might have to trademark that. Get that out there, let people know you know your stuff, you know the industry, so talk about it. Just because we're in recruitment doesn't mean we can't talk about the industry that we work in. Like, put that out there.

What type of things could that be? I know this is market-specific. Yeah, but give us a bit of an example. What might be some of the things that you could share?

Um, latest technologies, latest companies, latest investment rounds, hiring triggers. We do work in a really cool space, so there's loads of amazing technology you can talk about. So quite regularly, if I see something interesting, especially within the startup space, have you seen this technology? Look who they're working with, it's right at the cutting edge, tag the CEO. They get market branding as well. It's a really natural way to do it.

Love it.

Okay.

And then Let's talk about— before we get into some more strategies. Yeah, I think we have to talk about, because we're talking about it here, like, how have you helped your team most likely, like, overcome the thing that will block them the most, which will be like, I don't know what to talk about. Yeah, like the ideas piece. Yeah, talk to me about how you think about that. Like, how do we, how do we consistently come up with content ideas that I can speak about on LinkedIn? Because We're not going to get anywhere near being consistent if we can't keep coming up with ideas. And I'd always— this always used to be a blocker.

Yeah. I encourage an ideas log. So I've got like a notes section in my phone of any ideas that I have. They usually come to me just before I'm going to bed, which is really annoying, but dump it down, have a little log of your ideas. Also, the save function on LinkedIn is really good. So if you see any posts that give you ideas, it could be about company you want to talk about, new technologies, save it, park it in your mind, and then when it comes to the time when you're ready to post, it's already there. You've got a catalog of stuff to remind you of what to do.

I love that. Yeah, I think for me what I always say to people, and it's the same now, is like we said, back to like the sort of recruitment strategy, which is having a niche, knowing who you serve. If you have that, that means you should be spending a good chunk of your time each day, each week speaking to those people. And what I always used to say to people is like, sometimes what I think recruiters forget is that the people that you speak to in your marketplace, in your industry, will likely not know as many people as you do or speak to as many people like them in the industry.

Yeah.

So if you think about how many, uh, I don't know, VPs of production— I'm just making up a job title, I don't know— but like, how many VPs of production does Amelia speak to each week? Versus how many VP that person speaks to, people like them, right? It's probably going to be at least, at least double, maybe not triple. You might speak to 5 a week, they might speak to 1 or 2 people that have their network, you don't know. So that's where a lot of the insights can be, and hopefully a bit of a lightbulb moment for people where it's like, oh yeah, hang on a minute, I'm speaking to X number of people, and what this person shares with me in terms of a challenge or things that they're thinking about the industry is likely that other people feeling like that. And if this person shared with me, there's a good chance that this other VP of production person or whatever, uh, is also going to have an opinion on that or, or be thinking the same thing. So I think that's often what people can miss. But like, I think when recruiters really get it, why people do really well is that you— like, recruiters are in, in the perfect position to trade information, to share information, to share insights, because you're at the cold face, you're, you're speaking to these people. In some months you might speak to hundreds of people, and these people only— for some of them may only be able to speak to their team.

Yeah.

And their team might be small, and they might not have people in their network who are on a similar journey.

Yeah.

And they may think the challenges that they have are sort of personal to them, and that's the insight.

Yeah. And it can be really simple, and it doesn't have to be deadly serious. Like, you can have some fun with it. You can ask for help, you can ask for questions. There's so many different ways of doing it. I think it's just be authentic. Start there, because if you're doing posts that don't sound like you and you don't believe in, you're gonna give up on it really, really quick.

And then how do we— we didn't actually have, uh, AI on here, did we?

No.

Are you, are you using that to help with ideas? Are you using it at all, or no?

I use ChatGPT every single day.

Yeah.

But not to write my posts.

Okay.

I use it to tidy up because it knows my tone very well now. It's quite frightening. I say my please and thank yous just in case. There's so much AI content creation out there. Some of it's good, some of it's bad. Eventually it is all going to be that. But if you make your brand now, that's how you're going to stick out. Otherwise it is down to the robots.

Yeah, I think couple things that might be helpful just on this part, because I think we can't— we'll go into the other strategies, but I think you'll have limited— you can tell me what you think about this, but you're not going to get as much out of them if we're not sorting out a shop front window. And as you said, the big part of that is, am I consistently sharing things and talking about things that my customers care about or is going to be relevant, right? Which is why this is an important part. Like, we have to get over this hurdle of consistently sharing content. I think the things worth sharing on my side that might be helpful— I'm like you, I— so I will— so my process normally is I would write things in Grammarly.

Okay.

So I've just used that tool religiously.

Yeah.

And then so I'd write it, but now before I'd like try and write the post as if it was ready to go out, but now I'd write it in a bit more of a rough way, just try and get like my core message across and what, what I want to say. and then I would then put that in ChatGPT and then sort of get it to sort of finesse it and get it to improve it. Yeah, polish it. But what I've— I think the whole AI piece, particularly in, uh, in this case, it's all about doing the upfront work. So to get a better result. So what I did before I even asked it to get any, um, get any help with it is I basically, um, put it on one document. I gave it all of my best performing posts over the last 90 days.

Smart.

So I put— obviously did the upfront work of copying them, yeah, the words, then just putting it all in one Google Doc. Uh, I then gave— I then gave that as a file to be like, this is my tone of voice.

Nice.

I then gave it who my customer is and who my target audience is, and then if there's anything else that I think would be helpful to make it a better writer, I'd give it it. So any like content that I had around LinkedIn, these things.

Yeah.

So I did all of that, and then I would— and then I would get its help I think that's often missed.

Did it give you any themes of, this is why this is best performing, try this?

No, but I could have asked it that. Yeah, you could, you could ask it that for sure. So you could give it your best performing post and be like, what are the commonalities? Yeah, but I think the reason why I did that is because that, that's the perfect way to, to give it the context. Yeah, I'm like, these are all my best performing posts and also this is how I write. Yeah, so I think if you haven't done that, do that. And then my other tip for you— I haven't done this because I've— it's just, I feel like you're probably the same. Once you get into the flow of this, like, that part of your brain is always there when you're having conversations in terms of ideas.

Yeah.

But if you really struggle with ideas, hopefully a lot of you have got some sort of like note-taking tool on your calls. If you haven't, like, that has to be a way that you're leveraging AI. I just think that's, that's just such a low-hanging fruit. So if you have a tool like that, what you're going to end up with is transcripts. So you could— what you could do as a starting point if you want to start speaking to clients or candidates is get 5 to 10 transcripts from your recent conversation in the last 2, 3 weeks, chuck that in ChatGPT, and then be like, right, I want you to use the transcripts and help me understand what have been some of the most common themes, what keeps coming up. Yeah, in these meetings that could be potential great content ideas.

I think we tried a little bit a while back where people were struggling to keep the momentum up and the consistency. So some people just wrote a block, like 4 weeks worth. And I think if you don't have, you know, live data that you need to be following, if that works for you, fine. As long as it's getting out there, you can put it out when you want, you can play around with the time. So I think it's just consistency and it's okay to fail. It's okay if no one looks, no one responds. You might get trolled. You won't get trolled, that doesn't happen anymore. But like, even if people aren't responding, they're still seeing it. Doesn't mean it's not being read.

Yeah, you have so many people on LinkedIn that don't engage. That is the truth of it. But yeah, if you're struggling for ideas, maybe try some of those things and that will help. Because I think if you consistently have ideas and at least things that you feel like you could talk about, yeah, you've got a chance of being consistent. I think whenever I've seen recruiters or people just fail to be consistent, it's because they just fall into the like, I'm not very creative, I'm going to talk about. So this is something you have to build a habit. So I'm like you, I've— I haven't got an ideas log, I've got it on my notes and all. The heading is, um, which sort of just gives me a bit of a reminder of the things that I do write down, which is be the most valuable resource for my ideal customer.

Nice.

That's what I want to be with my content. So I've got that as my heading, and then any conversations, anything I think would be helpful, yeah, I just write that down. It's very rough. So then when I come to any part of my day or week where I'm gonna write content, I go to the ideas versus trying to use the time to come up with ideas and write it. I think that's when again people struggle.

And then you get fed up. It's taking me ages. I found putting constant posts out as well, it's a nudge, it's a reminder of I need to get back to Amelia. So instead of the follow-ups, have you seen my email? Like, put a post out there, see if it works, because if they're on the feed and they see you, it's a reminder going, sorry, I need to get back to you. So it's just a reminder, just keep it in front of them.

So let's keep building on this. I know we just focus on that quite a bit, but the reality is like if we're not doing those bits, we're not going to get the, the most out of what we're building here. Yeah, because we're growing our network intentionally, we're then posting content, as you said. What we're then doing and what we're able to do, which is going to be very hard to be beaten by the phone, which is we're hopefully getting in front of people, even if it's a couple hundred people that see your content. If it's the right people, that, that's what matters at the end of the day. And these people may not engage, as you said, but there's there's definitely a lot of lurkers, a lot of people that don't engage, uh, that will be seeing your content. And if you're remembered as the person that, oh yeah, actually I'm going to read that, and then they get to the end of the post and they're like, I'm glad that I read that, that was good, the next time that I see you post I'm gonna be more motivated to check it out, or that's gonna happen. So talk to us a bit about— we've got here, your network is your biggest asset. So how can we, how can we really make the most out of these, this first-degree connection? So like If we think about— why don't we just take a bit of an example of if I'm listening right now and I really want to use LinkedIn to, uh, help me book more meetings with potential clients. Yeah, let's say that we've done all these bits so far, like, how are you, how are you doing that? How are you approaching that? Are you going, right, okay, this, like, at the beginning of my week I'm gonna put a search together and I'm gonna try and drop them a note? I don't know, how do you think about that? How can we start using this in practice?

Cool. Um, if I'm not connected, connect. And then from there, quick connection, no message, nice natural follow-up. Take nuggets from what you're seeing on their profile as well. Make it as specific and as tailored as possible to that person. Um, but again, going back to the mutual connections, if you go on their profile, look through their mutual connections, you might have some really good industry buddies there. They're connected with, send that to them, go, can you introduce me to Hishem Azzouz? Great. They can give you the insight of what they're about. You've got a warm intro there. So instead of doing a cold outreach, you can then be introduced by your network industry buddies. Golden, golden way of doing it.

Why would that— but why— so what would the ask be? Like, is it normally you're asking for an introduction because you've seen that they're hiring? Is it because, like, they're a company that I don't know, you've got talent that you want to speak to them about?

Either or all of it. If they're— I think a good thing that I've been doing a lot more is asking for favours. Can you do me a favour? I really want to get into this company. I really want to speak to these people. How well do you know them? Can you get me in? People love doing a favour. They go, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I know them really well. I went to his wedding. Yeah, I'll introduce you. Here you go. And then they can ask for a favour for you back. So it's just putting that good karma through there.

Okay, and then what about, like you said, this is just as impactful on if I'm someone that's listening that's in the delivery position, or I'm someone that's 360, so I'm doing the candidate side. Are we going straight to our first-degree connection and doing a search if we've got a requirement that we're working on? I don't know, how do we then leverage it that way? Is it, is it literally that?

Getting from a delivery side, get the job ad up and post it all over LinkedIn, then you'll get the applications that way. Going through your first connections, doing— so my Boolean searching is incredibly basic. So I'll do it very basic of exactly what I need, but just through my first connections. And then numbers, emails, it's all on there. Can you recommend someone to me? Is this for you? Sometimes going straight in with who the company is, because if they're a first connection, you've probably spoken to them before, you've got a feel for what they're about, so you can just get there. A lot faster, basically.

Okay, love it. I want to talk about leveraging the My Network Job Changer section. I thought this is a quite cool insight, and then I want to ask you a bit more in terms of other things that we can be doing to really get the most out of our LinkedIn network. So tell me about this. Why is this— you put this gold mine for BD and candidate placement? Talk to me.

Have you looked at it?

Uh, I haven't.

Okay, it's—

obviously it rings, it rings a bell, but I definitely haven't sat there and gone My Network Job Changer section. So where, whereabouts is that?

Okay, so it's on Close my eyes, I'm looking at LinkedIn. My network, and then at the top it's either grow or job changes. So go on job changes. I look at this every day because it changes all the time, and it'll show you people within your network who have got a new job. That tells you so many things just from that one piece of data. So, someone in my network, senior level VP, she's got a new job. First thing I do, call her, congratulations, hear really good things about that company, settle in well, we'll talk soon. That's a potential new hiring manager, number one. Number two, you can go to HR or VP with the company that she's moved to. You've just made a really good hire, I know, you know, I've heard really good things about her, seems like you might be growing, can talk when you're ready. Point number 2. Point number 3, they might need a backfill of where that person's left. So without being too obvious, you've just lost someone. I usually do. And speaking with some senior people within this space who are confidentially looking, let me know if you want to talk. So that's 3 touchpoints you can do from that one thing, and then you get that information every single day.

And are they, are they typically like DMs or emails, or it depends?

Depends. LinkedIn, if you've got their contact email, call, there's just so much data that you can get from that. It gets a sense of, is there trouble at that company? Is that company growing? Just gives you so many kind of triggers of what's going on.

I don't know how many people I've heard talk about that. Is it like an overlooked, is it like an overlooked thing?

I've only looked at it recently. I don't know if it's a new feature, but they don't make it super clear.

But that's what I mean.

Now the recruitment world knows.

And is it literally like a feed? Yeah, right. Yeah, obviously you can see how powerful that could be.

Yeah, because they're all in your network already. Yeah, you know them all.

Yeah, that's— oh yeah, because it is my network, so straight away, like, we can— there'll be some contact information, or we can at least, at the very least, drop them a message. Okay, love that. What about the other thing that I'm really trying to figure out? You can tell me what you think about this. I think the other thing that in terms of getting the most out of our, our network or maximizing LinkedIn, I think what's always helpful is just thinking about like signals. Like what, what different signals and triggers can we use to start a conversation? Like you've just given us one there, like if someone's moved into a new position, yeah, you can then use that information, right? Because if we didn't have that information, then you've got a few different ways that you can start a conversation, but you've got to have like— you can't just drop someone a DM and be like, oh hey, how are you? Do you know what I mean? Like we've got to have a bit of a reason whether that be an introduction, mutual connection, whatever. So how often do you leverage who looks at your LinkedIn profile?

I look at it consistently. It's—

de—

I look at it too much.

Yeah, because I think I've done a number of talks with our customers, and this is one of the strategies that I gave them. And I'd probably say 50% of the room, when I asked them, a number of people don't look at this consistently.

Oh, I'm obsessed. I look at it all the time.

So how do you use that information? So that, that for me is like a signal, like that is someone's looking at your LinkedIn.

Yeah.

How, how are you using that information typically? What would you typically then do if it—

I don't see it as candidate or client because they could be, they could be both. So just dropping them a message. I, I don't love doing the 'you've been looking at my profile' line. It feels a little bit Strange to me, but hey, I'm here, we're in the same world, is there anything I can help you with? Short and sweet. And then that gives them the opportunity to tell them why they've looked at your profile.

Okay. And you, if— so if people look at your profile and you're like, I definitely— I haven't spoke to this person, I want to speak to them, connect— that will be the— but like, if you are connected, yeah, that'll be the sort of along the lines of the DM that you'd send.

Yeah, definitely just get back in touch, find out what why they're snooping. But on the main feed as well, if you're following the right people, the right companies, everything is on there. Everything you need to know, BD, hiring trigger-wise, is on there. So following the companies is really important as well, not just the people.

And do you use people engaging with your content as a signal as well? So like if certain people engage with your content, are you then using that as a trigger to be like, Hey, how do you use that?

So I think, so one of the examples, I think I did it earlier with the sports technology company, tagged the CEO in it. He then messaged me going, thank you for sharing. I didn't go straight into a pitch straight away because I didn't want it to be that transparent, but I was just like, love the work that you guys are doing. I think the phrase I like to use is I'll be watching from the sidelines in case you need anything. It's just quite a natural way they're looking at your profile again, and then conversations can snowball from there.

Okay, but I think the key here, what I'm hearing is— and this is what I definitely need to get better at, and I think a lot of people listening would probably relate— is it sounds like— so do you view all of that as like your BD activity?

Yeah, it is BD activity. Yeah, that's where the meetings come from, because I think that's That's sometimes—

but I think what the benefit of using triggers like that and signals, and I don't know how you found it, but you will get more of a return, or like the conversations will accelerate more quickly because they viewed your profile, they've engaged. Like, that, that is the benefit of doing it, I found.

Yeah, when I've been consistent with it, 90% of my pitches come from that method, really.

Yeah, yeah. So how have you— like, I think I might overthink it, but like, how— because I think really where the money's made, like you're saying, the meetings and where the good stuff happens is in like the DMs, basically. Yeah, like a lot of stuff that we don't see. So are you just— are you just consistent with it? Are you like— or you— do you feel like you do anything in particular when it comes to the direct messaging? Because I think so much of it comes from—

yeah, I think it's— it kind of feels like so natural now. I'm like, what is the process? But connect, follow-up message. I think sometimes, sometimes I quite like to connect and then send them a work email. Sometimes it just feels like you need to cut through the noise of LinkedIn because think how many DMs you get, like, think from a hiring manager in a big company, it's like, it can be really overwhelming. Some people aren't seeing all that. So, sometimes I like to let them know who I am on LinkedIn, we're connected, but then take it offline onto email just to kind of cut through that noise a little bit.

Okay, but it sounds like you are— yeah, you are— like you said, 90% of your meetings come from using these different signals, leveraging LinkedIn to start a conversation or book a meeting. And but like, how have you— what, like, if I was to look at some of your messages? Yeah, the ones that the next step would result in, like booking time in, like, you know what I mean? What I know it's very nuanced here, but I'm just curious, like, how do you approach that? Is it like you might start a conversation?

Yeah.

And then depending on what's shared, you then be like, would you be against jumping?

Yeah, um, really short and sweet, nothing long, nothing fluffy, very specific as to why I'm getting in touch. So, we work in these areas that looks relevant to what you want to do, I'd love to learn more about you and the company. 'Can we have a meeting?' Because then it keeps it open as well. They might be looking, and that's really good as well because there could be a long-term candidate that you can then send to customers. So keeping it open but also keeping it really clear as to why you're getting in touch.

Yeah, nice. Obviously my world is different because I'm communicating to recruitment companies, but yeah, one of the most effective ways that has really worked for me in line with this is Yeah, I have a, I have a specific campaign and it's my best performing one for anyone that views my LinkedIn profile. Okay, that like fits my ideal customer. Yeah, they go into that.

And what does that message say?

I, I call it out. So like, I, I will say like, notice you just read my LinkedIn profile. Yeah, appreciate you stopping by. And then I'll go into the— I try and make it easy. So typically, so I'll basically be like typically if, uh, someone like yourself is looking at my profile, it normally means one of three things. One, you listen to my podcast, um, and you was curious about what Hector is. Two, X took free X. Am I barking up the wrong tree? I don't say that, but like, basically, is this wrong, or, um, is any of that resonate? That's definitely been the most effective way for me. But I'm— I do— it is hard to like be consistent with these things, though, isn't that? I think Have you got— do you use anything? I can share something here, but have you— do you— I think the LinkedIn inbox is absolute shambles. Like, it's so hard.

It is hard to keep on top of. Um, someone showed me— I didn't know how to use it before, but if you haven't got time, you've seen a message, do unread, because then you can come back to it, and then you can do all your unread messages, because otherwise gold does get lost. So just keep on top of it that way.

Okay, so you find it hard as well?

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, because I'm, I'm going to be speaking to them because I've recommended it to a number of people. I definitely haven't perfected it, but it's like the best tool that I've used. It's called, um, I'll send it to you after. It's called, um, I'm gonna butcher this now. It's called Condo.

Okay.

Or Condo. Condo.

Yeah.

But it's literally, they're solving the problem of the LinkedIn inbox. It's like a separate thing to do that. I'm not gonna have to tell you that, but the reason, the reason why it's really good.

Yeah.

Is because one, you can just manage your inbox way better. So like you can label, you know, like in your email inbox you can like label messages, uh, within it. I have a different tool, but within it you can create like snippets because there's probably different things that you probably say repeatedly, so you can just have like keyboard shortcuts for that. Um, and also what I really like is, you know, you can't send voice notes on the desktop. You can do that on, on their tool, which is quite cool. So you can send a voice note from your desktop versus having to get up on your LinkedIn thing. But it's really— it's like having a separate tool that just makes that better. Yeah, I found to be way more effective. I still haven't perfected it, but in terms of the tool itself, it's like $20 or something like that, because the LinkedIn inbox is just absolute shambles. It's so hard, and when you're saying so much of your pipeline has been built from it, it's like you want to keep on top of it.

Yeah. What do you use to keep track of leads? What's your system for that?

Definitely haven't perfected it, but like, we— I've— so I think the game would be prioritizing the most important messages. So that's what I've tried to do. Still work in progress, but we have— we have a— I have a label on there which is leads.

Yeah.

So if I get back to any messages, I'm making sure that it's those that I get back to versus all of the other messages that may be in there.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean? So yeah, I'll send it to you. Be interested what you think. But I think— I do think that's worth thinking about because that is— it's just so hard.

Yeah.

To keep on top of it, and it's overwhelming.

And that's also another bonus of just having LinkedIn, because some people got LinkedIn and LinkedIn, they're two different inboxes.

Yeah. So we've got here a big part of the— this whole strategy working. We put here providing help, asking for help, flip the script. So what— why do you think this is so fundamental? I know you're giving us some examples there in terms of asking for favors. Yeah, but I'm, I'm a big believer in this, but like, why, why do we think we have to have this mentality of like give before you get?

I think that's definitely my style. It might not be everyone's style. I'm not a hunter sales. I'm a bit more slower-paced, consultative kind of vibe. I think my boss always said everyone loves helping, everyone loves having given a favour. So, just use it because then your relationship just goes to the next level. If you're asking someone for a favour and they give it back, you've taken your relationship to a next level instead of just a transparent relationship of I'm connected to you, you're connected to me, it just really opens things up.

And a great example of this, I've heard a good number of recruiters do this now. Again, just great tip on you've got here, if you find a job at a company you're not currently working with, like share that with your network or share that specific people you've done. Yeah, that is a good example.

So with the network that I've built, I do have a lot of people reaching out to me when they're confidentially looking, and it's It's a really good BD tool, and I always say to people, look, I might not be the person that places you, but I'll be the person that helps you.

Nice.

And it's just a really good way to get to know people, get leads. We do a lot of speccing, which is a really massive revenue generator for us as well. So it's a really good way, but just manage your expectations. And if there's a client you're not working with and you're seeing it posted on LinkedIn, if they can get there quicker, just send it to them, show them what's out there. They really, really appreciate it.

Consistency is so important to this, but interesting your thoughts on this. If we do a lot of the things that we've spoken about and we're consistent, when do we think we might experience wins?

That's a big question.

Like, what, like, what would you say to your team? Because we've got to set expectations. There'll be loads of different stories where you could get some quick wins, but like, genuinely, if we're doing these things, we're consistent, what time frame do we think we can start expecting to get tangible wins? Like, yeah, like people going, hey, Amelia, keep seeing your stuff, yeah, it'd be good to have a chat.

Well, there's, there's a guy on my team who's fresh, and I've been teaching the ways of LinkedIn And at first, I'm sure he will be listening, he didn't get the whole LinkedIn content posting and he was nervous to do it. He started doing it, he started connecting with the people, and I think he got more connections than me the other day. Like, in one week, I was like, this is incredible. And he's quickly, and because he's so fresh to it and he understands the niche so quickly, his network is spot on for where it needs to be. So it can happen. Within weeks if you do it, if you know the niche, the customer, and the reputation bit.

Okay, and what about Windsor? What was that?

Well, he got really good candidates quickly, okay, that he was not connected to before. So it can be within weeks, right?

Got you, fr. For me, what I'd say on this— you can tell me what you think— I think if you do the bits that we were talking about in terms of— I, I don't— you can tell me what you think, but I, I don't think with the personal branding stuff, I don't think people get as many inbound lead messages as like it's probably like sold to people. For me, I think where, where the game is won is using what you're putting out there, and then that means more people viewing your profile, engaging. You're then able to use those triggers, use that attention to start conversations.

Yeah.

So I think, I don't know what the time frame is, but if you were to, like, I'd be very interested to see what would happen if you listen to this where you have a bit of experiment. Yeah, I spoke to people that have done this and they've got really good wins, but like doing what we've said every week consistently for 90 days, so for 12 weeks, and see what the results are. I think you'd be surprised. But I think if you do, if you're consistent with the follow-up part and starting conversations and DMing people. Yeah, using mutual connections, all of that stuff, because that's being proactive.

Yeah.

I like— I don't know about you, but I don't think if we were to look over 12 months, how many times have you had a hiring manager say, I've got this role, can I speak to you? I don't know.

We're getting more and more, which is incredible. It was like part of our commercial strategy to get inbound business development, and it's happening. When it happens, it's like oh my God, they've called in for us. So it's taken time, but that's like the Holy Grail, right?

I just think people will get more wins more quickly if they're using it to start conversations.

And if you don't, someone else will. I think sometimes that gives me the push.

Yeah, I think that, that's the thing. If you combine it with being proactive, like, I do think that's the game. I think that's where you're going to get a lot of wins more quickly.

Yeah.

So let's get into some examples and some like stories, because I think this also really helps paint a picture. Talk to us a bit about— I don't know if you've already spoken about this one, but I've got this sort of— this just paints a bit of a journey of like what the journey might look like, right? So I've got here some good examples of BD wins through LinkedIn. So we've got Friday, you saw a podcast video post on LinkedIn, and then off the back of that, that you use that to email someone in that business. So like, yeah, talk to us a bit Do you know this off by heart? Do you want me to go through it?

It's in there.

I cannot. Give me some examples. I think this really paints a picture.

Okay.

So let's go through this example first.

So I was looking on my LinkedIn feed, which I do a lot because everything's on there because my network's there, right? I saw a video that was being posted about a video. It was a sports tech podcast and there was a client on there which I kind of heard of in the past but hadn't kind of looked at for a while. They were speaking about their technology solutions, how the business was growing. Bang, hiring trigger. So I go on his profile, get his email address, send him and the C-level team a message on the Friday. Super simple. I work within the sports tech space. It looks like your business is growing. Would love to chat if it could be of value. So that was on the Friday. On the Saturday, got an email back from the team. Yes, we're growing in Europe, would like to speak. Yes, let's go. Booked the pitch for Monday. Whole C-level team was on there, went through their details, went through the recruitment needs that they had, and then left us speaking to other agencies, it said. Yeah, so they left us on a bit of a cliffhanger going, okay, we'll speak to some agencies. So playing it cool, it's fine. So they said by the end of the week they'd come back to us. So Wednesday And I don't know if they saw this or not, but it was me taking control of what was happening. So on Wednesday, I did a specific post really relevant to their geography, their technology, just as a bit of a reminder of, I'm here, I know what you're doing, here when you're ready. And then on the Friday, they came back to us and we did the deal. And that was a big recruitment as a service project.

Did they say why they came? Did they say why they chose you? If they spoke to other agencies or no?

It was really interesting. Just, they know us industry-wise. It was super, super niche, and he liked the sales style that we approached. They actually asked if we could do some sales training. So it was the style and the approach, I think, really resonated with them.

But again, that all came from— this is what I mean— that came from you being proactive. Yeah, you saw a post and then you used that. Like, that, that's the thing where probably people miss.

Jump on it, it's there. It's all there.

And this is using that information.

Yeah.

Okay, we've got a second example. Was that the one that you gave us earlier in terms of posting about a sports technology company, tagging the company and its CEO? Is that that one?

Yep.

Followed up with a personal message, not to pitch but to congratulate them. Uh, that led to like a— so they then, uh, jumped on a call. We're here for the long game. Could be future business there. Nice, love that. Again, I think that's such a— I've seen recruiters do that. I think that's a smart way, like, again, just shows that you're abreast of the industry, see what's going on, cool to like tag these companies, advocate for them. I think that's a cool thing to do, isn't it? If it makes sense in your industry, like, just saw this company, hearing great things, congrats to so-and-so.

Yeah, especially in the startup space, it's good for them and other people in the industry involved. They might be a vendor, they might be a buyer, they might want to work for them. So It's not just putting that company on a pedestal, it's genuinely interesting to the whole network as well.

And then the other example, the ones that you mentioned earlier, but has this happened a few times then, or was this like a bit of a, like, okay, I'm doing the right things, a bit of just reinforces what you're doing in terms of going to an industry networking event?

Yeah. And it's—

And people were like, oh yeah, Amelia, I've actually seen your stuff.

It's something I have to push myself to do, like going to network events. It's scary, right? Especially if you don't know many people there and you're going by yourself. So I'm always like pretty nervous to go, but as soon as you land, people start coming up, introduce you, you need to meet Amelia. It's just bringing it, everything to life, everything that you've built online translating into, into real life.

Yeah, I think again, again, I think it's sort of combining this, and this is where you can also see the, the value I see. So you just said that, I think a lot of people would feel the same. Some people would feel confident going to networking events, some people would be nervous about it. But if you've done all these bits right and you go to networking event, it's going to be easier to speak to people, connect with people, because there's just more chance that they might have seen your stuff, and that just makes that initial conversation easier.

Yeah.

So again, this is where we can see the benefit of it.

Yeah.

Tip for you, you can tell me what you think of this.

Yes, please.

If you're talking about networking events This came from our live podcast the other week, uh, from Jessica, who is big into brand. You two would get along a lot in terms of similar strategies. And we're talking about this— she views going to industry events as just brand development. They're there to learn. Yeah, they want to engross themselves in their industry. She said if ever you're a bit concerned or maybe nervous about going to a networking event on your own, uh, ask a candidate to go with you.

Yes.

I thought that was a cool tip. So is there anyone that you could speak to in your network to be like, I want— I'm going to this industry event, did you want to come along? I'll get your ticket.

Well, one thing I did for that event, I met someone before because then you can go in together. Yeah, because there's nothing more scary than going in by yourself and just being on your phone really awkwardly. So going together is a really good—

yeah, so finding people you can go and have like— get someone that you can attend these things with.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, you've got that. And then I think then around getting the most out of these events, it's then posting before you're going, like showcasing that you're gonna go, then trying to follow up with people, connect with people once you've been there, right? It's then again all in the follow-up and starting conversations. Yeah, that's the game.

Try and get the guest list as well.

Trying to get the guest list if you can. Yeah. Okay, so if we were to round this out, then we've got some just really actionable tips in terms of things to leave people with. So You mentioned it earlier, but saving posts, I mean, that's something that I do a lot. So do you use that to help you with like content ideas and anything that you see that you're like, that's interesting?

Or— yeah, it's just so easy on my phone. I look at LinkedIn a lot, I'm not embarrassed to say. But then you see staff hiring trigger, save, save, save, save, save. And then when you're at your desk, you're ready, either you're doing your BD or you're posting, you've got a nice catalog of ideas and leads that you can just go through. Otherwise you will forget.

I love that. We said we've got to, we've got to consistently post the content yourselves. Like, that, that's just that you have to do that. Yeah, otherwise just none of this is going to work really.

And then you're actually taking stuff in a lot more. You're taking your own viewpoint on it. It's more authentic. LinkedIn likes it more.

We've got to engage with others. How often do you comment on other people's posts? I'm not, I'm not very good at this, but I know I'm getting better.

Okay, it is a push though, but then it makes complete sense because if you're being someone's champion, they can be a champion back to you. And people see that if you go on your LinkedIn feed, you see the post, but you're also seeing who's commenting. So it, it's worth doing.

Yeah, just, it's hard. Like, I can only do that if I am scrolling and I see something, but like, how do you try and be proactive about it?

Do you like I would say I'm proactive about it, but it has to be something I've actually got something to say.

Have you seen that you can see like impressions on comments now?

Yeah, they're going up if you do them right.

But like, you never used to be able to see that though, because I found that interesting. So what, what they're trying to advocate there, like people engaging with others and then just getting the sort of dopamine because you get a lot of impressions?

I think on— when you look at your impressions, you know, they give you a wheel of Have you posted? Have you commented? So they're trying to ramp that up, right?

Okay, interesting. Be creative with outreach.

Big phrase.

What are some of the things that we're being creative with when it comes to that?

Okay, um, so a post I did the other day that did really, really well, which links back to the whole karma, doing good for others, um, a contact of mine wanted some help getting some work experience for her son. Within sports performance. So I did a post on that, and he got work experience out of it.

Nice.

But then I took it a step further, and I was like, why don't I send this post in a message to all of the CEOs of sports performance companies? Which was just such a different angle. And there was a CEO that I was looking back through the messages, probably messaged him 5, 6 times, no responses. Sent that to him, I said, can your company help? He came back straight away. Then a conversation came from that. So it's just thinking about different ideas, not the generic things.

Nice, love that. What about experimenting with LinkedIn voice notes much? Sending videos on LinkedIn or no?

Not there yet, you know what, just no, I don't do it really, but maybe I should.

These are all words.

All words.

Fair. I mean, I would, uh, I would definitely encourage people to try it.

I know you sent me a voice note.

I don't mess with that. Oh, there we go. Yeah. I just think, uh, still there's still a lot of people that don't do them. So again, it's all little marginal gains, but I think when it's done well—

although I have been harassed by people who have done voice notes.

I know they can be annoying. Like, I know sometimes I'm just like, I don't want to listen to a voice note. Yeah, but everyone communicate— everyone likes to be communicated with differently.

Yeah.

And if you can make it timely, or you might have seen something—

I—

the, the thing that I like about a voice note is that you can just get your tone across a bit more.

Yeah.

And deliver it in a certain way.

I'll push myself.

A video, you can do a video as well, just direct it into LinkedIn.

Do you do much of that messages?

I don't, unless there's someone I really want to try and— yeah, get a hold of. Yeah, the, the reason why I react like that is because the timepiece. What I quite like about the voice note, because like, let's be honest, I— even though, yeah, you want it to be authentic, I may not get exactly what I want to get across perfectly in that first video.

Yeah.

And I think because it's visual, you can be a bit more self-critical. What I like with the LinkedIn voice note is you've got a 60-second cap, so it sort of encourages you to be concise and not waffle, which is what I quite like.

Yeah.

But I would definitely encourage people to experiment with it for sure.

Give it a try.

And then we've got authenticity is key. I think that, that's, that's so crucial, right? Just like you said, start— if you do start small, or if you want to be consistent, you have to talk about the things that you're willing to talk about or that you like talking about as a person. Like, don't feel like you have to talk about things because you're, you're meant to, even if you're not comfortable with them. That isn't where you have to start. So we've covered a lot.

We did it.

What would be— so if we got to the end here, like, two scenarios.

Yeah.

One, if I'm someone listening that I've been on the fence like, I understand that there's a real benefit to it. Yeah, I can get inbound leads, it can help me grow my network, it's going to help me get more of my outreach. What would be like the, the one step that you'd encourage them to take to hopefully get to the point where they're being consistent? What would be like the one thing to start with off the back of this podcast?

Yeah, start small but in your own time. You'll see the benefits of it and stick with it. I think. And as I said, if you don't, someone else will. So.

And starting small would be?

It could be starting with a comment. Start with a comment, build up, share a link, build up, do your own content. Just take it step by step by step. And if you, I think a good place to start is have a look on posts that you like and try and reflect that. Why do you like that post? Is it Is it funny? Is it, you know, industry-specific? Why do you like that? And try and replicate that. I think that might be a nice place to start.

Yeah, I love that. And then I'd probably just add to that, at the minimum, like, make sure you're intentionally growing your network with the right people. Like, just whatever you're doing, make sure you do that. Yeah, so you can just build more of an asset there versus staying in LinkedIn Recruiter. And then the second scenario, then I've got to the end here, I'm someone that maybe is already doing some of this stuff but I want to get better, I want to get more out of what I'm doing. What, what would be like the one thing that maybe you might encourage me to, to take action on, or what should be the next step, do you think?

Good question. I think, I think it's that conversion of the personal brands and the online. Like, throw yourself out there on uncomfortable situations because that's the place of growth, right?

So maybe start using. So yeah, I think what I take from that then is just have more proactive conversations with people in your network and try and use the different triggers that we've spoken about, whether that be the my network— yeah, new job thing, they've viewed your profile, they've engaged your content. Like, don't, don't just let those signals or those things happen and then like not do anything with it. Just, just try and use those things to spark conversations. That's That's what I'm continuing to try and get better at. And I do think that that's where we can really get the most out of this stuff.

And it's the conversion that's difficult. So getting a place where you're seeing the signals, that takes time to build up on. Then it's taking the time of spotting the signals, and then it's the time of converting those signals. So they're kind of the three pillars to work across.

Love it. Look, Amelia, thanks for coming on. I think what I love about your story and what this is all about is like there's never, there's not one way to do recruitment and be successful in it, right? So I think if you've got to the end here, we've covered a lot. I think there's so many different strategies that you can use, and hopefully this can give some inspiration, some actual strategies for people who, yeah, may actually really see what works best for them as out there networking online, making the most out of it. And I think this is just a really cool story around like, absolutely, you can achieve what you want, or at least have a lot of success by having this type of approach. And there isn't one way of doing recruitment, which I think just makes it such a cool thing.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me, and thank you for what you do, because I listen religiously, and appreciate it. You're doing really good things for recruitment, so thank you.