Faith Under Pressure | Ron + Hope: Unfiltered

Hey, everybody. It's Ron and Hope Carpenter.

She's back. It's been about 2 years. Ron.

Yes.

I'm back. I've been doing them by myself and doing them with other people.

And I've been taking care of the parents.

I don't know how that's going.

I've been taking care of the parents. My daddy is in the hospital, had a stroke, went to rehab. I've had to move them, had to pack them up out of their house, move them into assisted living. They've been there almost 2 weeks. It has been a rocky road. It has It's been quite the adjustment, which I totally understand. I can't imagine, you know, living in your house that you love with your stuff and then whittled down to a 500-square-foot room. It's just— I can imagine. But once an adult, twice a child is the saying that I've heard, and it's quite the truth. So thank you for your love, prayers, concern, all the things. It's been a journey.

And we have labeled their living space the Den of Gratitude, haven't we?

Ron.

Haven't we?

Ronald. Yes.

The Den of Gratitude.

So anyway, continue to pray for them and us.

It's been wild.

Yes.

It has been wild. There's been a lot of adjustments anyway.

Been a lot of adjustment for everybody. I mean, I've been away from you. I've been away from the office.

Right, we've been away from each other.

It's been hard.

We've been away from each other.

Physically, a lot of work mentally and emotionally, all of it. It's been extremely draining.

And we take responsibility for other people's lives. And that's, that's a lot. That's not easy to do.

And we're not the only ones in the world doing it. There's so many other people doing it for, you know, aging parents. We call it the sandwich generation. You're sandwiched in between taking care of parents and you still got kids and grandkids who need you. And it's just a lot and it's very stressful and draining and straining and the world doesn't stop and business doesn't stop and bills don't stop. It's a lot.

It is. It is. But we're here. It's been tough being away from you. I tell them our marriage isn't built to do that. Our marriage was not built— We actually like being together. Yeah, we function together. We're hand in hand. I mean, the way we do everything. The way we do everything, I mean, down to food and house and— schedule and what you're over at the church and what I'm over at the church and, you know, this, that, and the other. And so, I've been trying to hold down that world while you're holding down that other world. And it is—

Ooh-wee.

It is different, yeah. And another thing to have to take over the full caretaker responsibilities of somebody when part-time you live over 2,000 miles away.

Yeah, it's tough.

You know, so it's just a whole nother thing. And then, you know, we went through, You know, being baptized and immersed into what it cost to do that was— I mean, I didn't think it was gonna be cheap, but I think I was rocked when I find out. 'Cause what they do is getting there is just the one thing. Then they start tacking on if there's another person and level of care. And when you get through, it's astronomical. And so— That's what we've been walking through. And this podcast is not about preaching sermons. It's kind of about taking our life and letting it be an open book to you. So it has been stressful. We haven't seen each other very much. And economically, it's been, you know, to the place— me and Hope are blessed. We're not in any way complaining. We're blessed. God is good to us. I'm glad we can do it. Yeah. But it's been such a strain. All of the extra work going to that. Yeah, it's been such a strain that we've literally had to restructure. Our financial life to accommodate this. And so, you know what? It is— these things that we talk, you know, these things we tell you about God, don't think we don't have to walk them out and live them, like patience and endurance and all these other things.

[Speaker:CECE] And, you know, just— somebody asked me the other day, "What have you learned from this season, from going through this?" I said, "Wow, what a—" Trigger, you know, what a question. I said, "Well, I've had to learn honor." I've had to learn what does honor look like? And what is, you know, how far does that go into crossing over boundaries of, you know, I can't be their savior. I'm not their God. I'm doing all I can do. It's taught me— how to love well, how to love well.

You had to probably learn how to make your own coffee. Yeah, probably.

That's really funny, Ron. I made, actually made yours.

You did make mine this morning. So let's talk about that. You made mine this morning, you did.

Yeah, I said I've also had to learn how to say no and to set some boundaries. Had to learn how to get ready for mine in your twilight years that, you know, people don't prepare for that. Like, for instance, there's certain people who did take out long-term benefit policies earlier in their life that pays for these accommodations. My parents didn't have that.

Yeah, your mom and dad were not prepared for that at all, no.

And so just, Trying to get my house in order, you know, financially. We've learned a lot through this.

Mm-hmm. We have.

God uses every season to teach us, to grow us. And if you're open and don't get self-centered and all the things.

Well, we're gonna take our time and we're gonna respond to something. And I'm gonna respond to it out of the Word. I'm not gonna respond to it out of argument. And I tell people on social media, if I didn't do what I did, I wouldn't even have social media. If I, you know, I don't think, I don't know what a normal life is, so I'm not gonna throw shade on a normal life, but I know mine, whatever normal is, mine's not. If I was, you know, just—

It is normal. It's normal for us.

It is our norm, but it's not everybody else's. If I wasn't public, Let me put it that way. That's a good way to put it. If I wasn't public, if publicity had nothing to do with my occupation or career, then like it was totally unnecessary, I would not be on social media. I might would think about a Facebook page, that'd be it. And because of the— I do really believe it has been more of a detriment than a help. And I believe it is highly toxic. And it allows you to have insight into what everybody thinks. And not everything— that you think needs to be public.

Whoa, whoa, say that again.

Yeah, not everything that runs through your head needs to go on the worldwide web.

Yeah, or out your mouth.

Yeah, and sometimes it's shocking when people let me into their mind. I didn't wanna know that. I didn't wanna know that. And I've always told people, especially Christians, you don't get on the internet and air stuff out because you act like you have no God to talk to. And the people that you're airing it to have no ability to help you. And I've always lived by this wisdom key. You don't ever share a problem with someone who doesn't have the ability to solve it. Right. Ever. The internet, social media, Instagram, TikTok cannot solve your problems. Right. So most of the time, other people knowing your problems adds more pressure to it, 'cause everybody's wanting help. And I'm gonna tell 'em, outside of God, nobody's coming. Right. And so I've always taught people, don't act like that. You have a God to talk to. But so we don't get riled up about stuff, but I do wanna respond to something. We have had an explosion of the Gen Z generation in our church. And I hold that— [Speaker:CECE] Both coasts. [Speaker:DR_YOUNG] I hold that very precious. Period. It's just, everything has gotten younger. All the society ministries, all of the red nights, the transfer conferences, my ministerial fellowship is seeing a ton of young pastors coming in. I just talked to a guy yesterday from Las Vegas in his 20s, you know, looking for covering. And the altars are full with it. It's just been an explosion of a new generation. And most pastors don't get to enjoy that. Most pastors pastor the generation that is the same age as them. And so a guy and a lady in our season would all this new life and all this energy is so refreshing and I'm grateful for it. But I've said every generation has its positives, every generation has its negatives. They have their strengths, they have their weaknesses. Like ours, I told people, my generation had learned to plow through anything. We've been to hell and back, some of us 50 times, and we're still here. A lot of my generation didn't end well. And so that's the knock. Y'all can endure anything, but when he got to the end, it was a mess. So, you know, I wanna counter that. I wanna be somebody that's different. The Gen Z generation, I'm gonna say that young millennials and Gen Z generation have some of the greatest positives ever with their passion and their pursuit, their inner pursuit of God that really don't have to be encouraged. It's kind of already there. And I'm amazed by it 'cause I don't know that I've seen it quite like that in my lifetime. And but the long and short of it is some of the mindsets and some of the thoughts and some of the opinions out of that generation that are so freely shared, I want to respond to one of them.

We gonna jump into that. But right now, we have an amazing, amazing sponsor. So, Ron, have we ever had diet fads? No. No. But we have tried different things, right? Together. I've tried different lifestyles. Yes. So, we've tried our fair share.

I've never been on a diet.

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We love 'em. We use Green Chef. This is not just advertisements, not just somebody who helps Ron and Hope Unfiltered. We use these products and very, very happy with them. I haven't had a bad meal yet. I have favorites. I have some I like better than others, but I haven't had anything bad. And so appreciate them guys, those guys for being sponsored to us. We love Green Chef. The response today was just talk, just talk. Not within, we saw it on Instagram, but there's also been people, you know, like within the ministry said, you know, they've heard people talk about like this. We are a multi-campus church. We have more— And we're not multi-campus 20 minutes away. No, I did have campuses, 6 of them. I had Greenville and then we had the surrounding areas, Charlotte, Raleigh, Columbia, Florence. You know, we did that and did it fairly successfully for some time. When we transitioned to the West Coast, I didn't, you know, I don't have a crystal ball. I didn't know the future, God knows. And he don't tell you everything. He just usually tells you next. And so, I gave all of those pastors opportunities to be the senior pastor and take those campuses over. Most of them decided to do that. After we moved to the West Coast, our East Coast succession plan did not go well, did not go as planned. And that's all water under the bridge, in the rearview mirror now. But I did feel like, because of so many people that he gave and served and just good people that felt somewhat disenfranchised. We needed to reopen. And so the thing was, I called around, I called Steven Furtick and I talked to Craig Groeschel and some of these guys that are just, you know, multi-campus maniacs. They just know how to do it. And they all told me, you know, the only people that really had a model was like Hillsong, you know, London and San Francisco and New York, you know, because I was like, these are gonna be 2,200 miles away. How do I do that? And so there's not a lot to study and, you know, time will tell if we've done it right. But everything is growing. All of our projections in every area is up and I appreciate that. With that being said, we've had some people like, you know, I don't, you know, want to go to a church, you know, where I watch a screen. Or something we all saw that got some kick, got some likes and shares and stuff, was, "If you don't go to a church where your pastor knows your name, he's not a pastor." And I don't know the person, I've just heard about it, haven't seen it. I hope I'm not talking about one of my best friends and I don't know who they are. That is absolutely a ridiculous statement to make. And it had to be made to just gender up some type of— traffic because biblically, I could rip that to shreds from front to beginning. Well, it's true.

Well, this is what that post was saying that they had seen people say and heard people say, "Well, you know, if I don't know my pastor, then are they really a pastor? I don't wanna go to a church that I don't know my—" And that's your prerogative. But if you wanna go to a smaller church where you actually know them, that's your life. You do that. And those are available.

[Speaker:JOYCE] In fact, 9 out of every 10, 90%.

[Speaker:CECE] And just because a church is large doesn't mean that, that church is wrong. I mean, we're sitting here praying for revival. We're wanting people to get saved. [Speaker:JOYCE] And souls come in. [Speaker:CECE] And souls come in. We can't help that the church is growing. So, statistics even proves, and those who even are complaining, look at your own life. You can only have so many personal relationships, really. I mean, You can only know certain amount of people in your life. So the pastor cannot help that he doesn't know everybody in a church that's 1,000 or more or even 300 or more.

Here's the thing, okay, Hope, we had 300 to 400 people got saved Easter Sunday. And I know a lot of people may not see a lot saved during the year, but Easter Sunday have a lot. We saw 300 or 400, but we see 100 or more every week. I think East Coast, we had right at 18. I think West Coast, we had like 54. Then online, we had 28. That's right at 100 a week. It's 5,200 a year. If your pastor don't know you, he's not a pastor. How in the world would I know everybody that has just gotten saved the last 2, 3 weeks?

Right. But you know, the biblical model, and we've talked about this so many times, is, you know, Moses, you can't do all this by yourself.

Go get you elders. Go get you elders. And make them captains of tens, fifties, hundreds, and thousands. Let the small matters come to you. The big matters, they bring them to Moses. That's Exodus 17 and 18.

And that is the biblical model.

That's the Jethro model, yes. Of how to structure a growing ministry. And you have elders, and the thread runs all the way through the New Testament. The church is built on the foundation. Jesus is the chief cornerstone. The foundation is the apostles and prophets. The three authoritative gifts are apostles, prophets, and actually the Bible says teachers. The fivefold ministry gifts that it takes to build a house are apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers, five, the hand of God. And then you have deacons and elders. Deacons are supposed to handle the natural things. Elders are supposed to oversee the people. The spiritual things. And that is the way of government church. Now, those are skill sets and gifts that are employed in the church. But, you know, the fact is, nowhere in the Bible, every church would be tiny. And when you collect, there's something in the Bible that I could say, there's so many things called the corporate anointing. I'm not a true representative of Christ. You're not, I'm not. One person is not. But the Bible says that the rich wine is in the cluster. It's when you put the corporate together, when the bride— I mean, when the groom looked at the bride in the Song of Solomon and talked about all of her body parts, that's what he talked about. Then he said, you are altogether lovely. When you get the whole collective, when you get the whole corporate there, there's a corporate anointing. When we all reach unity of the faith, we attain the full measure of the stature of Christ. The word Christ means anointing. There's something about when you bring the mass together in unity, what Christ walked in as an individual, the whole can walk in. So time after time after time, God wants the church to grow. The kingdom is like a mustard seed. The kingdom is like a seed. The kingdom is like, um, uh— [Speaker:CECE] Yeast. [Speaker:JOYCE] The yeast that works away. The kingdom is like a net that brings in all kinds of fish. So the fact is, God is not only— does he want the kingdom to multiply and his glory to cover the whole earth, but he has a structure that he's given whereby. [Speaker:CECE] Got a house for that. [Speaker:JOYCE] Exactly right. My job description is in Ephesians 4. If any of you wanna know the job description for a pastor, nowhere does it say to know everybody. That is tradition. It is usually Southern tradition. I will have a one-on-one relationship with my pastor, or I will even go to church where I can. Thus, you have tiny churches on every block. On every block. Okay? And— And that's okay. There's no problem with that. That's good reference. But one man can only know and manage on different levels up to 77 relationships. Yeah. 77 times— That's still hard. Yeah, 77 times 3.3, the average home, is 200 people. Thus, we have the 200. 100 barrier. Which 90% of churches never cross.

I was talking to somebody about this today and— you okay? I am. Okay. I was talking to somebody about this today and I said, you know, your pastor, the job description and the role of a pastor is not to know you. It is to equip you. To equip the people of God for the work. Of the ministry. We are here to give you tools in your tool belt to go out and win souls and to be great in God.

[Speaker:JOYCE] He gave some to be apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. Why? For the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry. Not to do the work, to equip the saints to do the work.

[Speaker:CECE] So whether that's on a screen, whether that's in person—

[Speaker:JOYCE] Well, I'm gonna address the screen. I ain't got there yet. I'm still talking about spiritual things. That's the natural side of it that I think is gonna make sense when I talk about it. But for the equipping, that we no longer be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine, okay, until we all reach unity in the faith, attaining the full measure of the stature of Christ. That is my job description. To equip, to make sure doctrinally we are sound, and third of all, to make sure that the corporate anointing is there and we can operate in what Jesus the person operated in. That's Ephesians 4:7-11, and it's pretty straightforward, and it really is not up for debate or argument. Now, let me move to the other side, doing churches by internet. There is a certain type of church in America that is given to that, and most of them would be what we would call seeker churches. Seeker churches have mastered that.

Doing churches by internet?

Yes, the internet campus, video campuses. Video campuses. Yeah, but it's usually they're internet streaming all at the same time and they're on a clicker. And I don't know if everybody else knows that, but that's what's happening at the broadcast campus. Everybody's— it's very, very predictable and very, very structured. Nothing's wrong with that. It's just a type. It's a way to do it. They've had tremendous success. And but for the Pentecostal, The charismatic churches who tend to want to experience a move, it is a very difficult model. I'm trying to do the best of both worlds. I always say there's a way. We have delay units where when we had our campuses, everybody could have their move of God during praise and worship and enter into the preaching at any time they want to because we had a delay unit there. [Speaker:CECE] But we don't do that at Hope. [Speaker:JERRY] So nobody had to be on it. We don't do that anymore. Nobody had to be on a click track. Now, the reason for the Video Campus is for efficiency and for stewardship. If I have a streaming campus or a Video Campus, I don't have to reproduce all of my accounting. I don't have to reproduce all of my HR. I don't have to reproduce all of my production. I don't have to— there's only a few things that really have to be staffed if you have video campuses. You need to make sure your worship's taken care of. You need a campus pastor taken care of. You need kids, you need student ministry, and maybe somebody over cell groups. And honestly, that's about it. And so, whereas if you have just the main church, I've got to reproduce all of that all over again everywhere I go.

[Speaker:CECE] Here's the thing. Honestly, to have a very successful church that is primarily— 'cause you do come to the East Coast once or twice a month— primarily a video campus, a screen church, it's for the people who feel called to that voice. They're like, "I'd rather hear that voice on a screen," then go sit and listen to somebody else in person. It's really a call to the anointing on the pulpit. [Speaker:JOYCE] "When I hear that voice, my baby jumps." [Speaker:CECE] When I hear that voice, that this is my church, I want that word. And that word is so important to me, I'd rather have it on a screen. And if that word is not, then that's not that church for you. If you— I mean, that's my thing, whether they're in person or they're on the screen, it's the voice, it's the anointing, it's the word. The Word that is drawing you? All the other connections are there at the campus. You got your live praise and worship here at Redemption. You got your live altar calls. You got your live care pastors, real life ministry. We care.

We go to the hospital.

You can jump in and volunteer. All of that. But are you called to the Word here? And if you're not, then this may not be the place for you. It's that voice. And that's why this place is filling up. They say, this is the voice that I'm called to.

Yeah, see, we have, since we have gotten our secure location here on the East Coast, we've grown 300%, you know. So we're not complaining. We just want to speak to a generation that maybe—

It's a generation, Ron, that's used to having everything they want. They're very opinionated.

But they're very opinionated. But I don't care if you have opinions as long as it's based on truth. Right, biblically based. And so, okay, for me to know everybody and then say, "Man, we gotta get people saved." Those two don't even coexist. Because the moment I get 100 people—

[Speaker:CECE] It's like oil and water.

[Speaker:JOYCE] The minute I get 100 people saved, then I don't have the right to be those people's pastors anymore 'cause I can't know those 100 intimately and still know these 200 intimately. [Speaker:CECE] Right, it just doesn't make sense. [Speaker:JOYCE] Yeah, you know, so I hear that kind of stuff and I'm like, you know what? [Speaker:CECE] It's frustrating. [Speaker:JOYCE] Yes, it is. It is frustrating because it hurts the cause of what we're trying to do, which is expand. I'm trying to expand the kingdom and be a steward, excuse me, of the finances that I have. And they'll tell you that that Video Campus, the things that are most expensive to reproduce don't have to be reproduced. You ain't gotta reproduce Ron. You ain't gotta reproduce Hope. You ain't gotta reproduce all, you know, I have to be able to project at my Video Campus, but I don't have to be able if it's a true video campus, ours is a little different. You don't have to have the cameras. You don't do none of that, 'cause you're just doing that at one spot. So, everything, you get the chance to multiply and expand exponentially without having to expend your expenses and resources exponentially. So, that is—

Well, at the end of the day, really, it truly is what I said. Are you called to the voice that is calling you? Coming out of the house or not. And nobody can answer that but the people, you know, listening. And the amazing thing is— But let me say this, it's such a contradiction. The same generation that will say things like this are the ones that all they do is watch a screen all day long on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, but then will fuss about coming into a church and seeing it. It just makes no sense.

You know what I did years ago when I started doing some video stuff? Because we started multiplying and I'm— Ron is flesh, so he has space and time. I can only be at certain places at certain times. And so I was hitting this thing because our generation, it was really tough for them to receive it. Gen Z's probably— a little easier than ours. Our generation was being introduced to this stuff. So you talking about pushback. We really had to break through some things. And I remember when I started doing it to 'em, we were already in that big, you know, almost 5,000-seat dome. I think 4,600 seats, something like that. And that day it was packed. And I looked around at everybody and I was talking to 'em about, you know, There's gonna be some times we're gonna present the Word by video. And, you know, they wasn't real happy that they were hearing that. And I stopped everybody because 80% of the building was watching me on screen.

Right. They weren't looking at you like this straight ahead. They were looking up at the screen as you talked.

80% of the building was looking— 'Cause I had me on the stage and I got these massive screens on both sides of me. And 80% of the building was watching me on the screen. And I'm like, And it'll be no different than what you're doing right now. And it was kind of like they were caught. I think everybody kind of chuckled after I did that. It was like, we'll keep doing what you're doing right now. And it is what you said, though. The anointing is on the Word. The anointing is on the voice. You're really in danger of having personality-driven ministry. If you have to know 'em and they have to be there. And man, if there's two things that I don't want to become, it is I gotta be there for you to enjoy God.

I don't want that. [Speaker:GINGER] And also, the senior pastor, which is us, of a church, should not be the only pastor that is pastoring you. [Speaker:JOYCE] Oh, no. [Speaker:GINGER] I mean, you've got care pastors, you've got leadership. And we have all that.

And we hold them accountable as to whether or not those things are being done. If you and I get a direct message or something that that's been overlooked in somebody's life, me and you are on the phone immediately.

[Speaker:CECE] Yes, but then I turn around and ask the church member, "Did you download the WeCare app so that you will call the church and let them know what's going on?" We can't help you if we don't know what's going on in your life.

[Speaker:JOYCE] So, you know, don't call us, don't download the WeCare app, then get on the internet and say nobody came from this church. You can't do that to me. So we have a way and we have a method that we communicate. We want to care for you, but we're trying to get people saved. We're trying to care for a lot of people. So help us out with the system that we've set up where we can better and more efficiently minister to you.

[Speaker:CECE] And if this is not for you, you'll find where it is.

[Speaker:JERRY] There's some people that, you know, a setting like this just isn't for them. But it sure is amazing. The corporate anointing is amazing. There's something about a full building. With people chasing God. There's something about thousands of people in a building with hands in the air. There's something about when I tell, you know, 3,000 or 4,000 people, stretch out your hand and pray for her. We're gonna believe God's gonna destroy this lump right now in the name— I hope there's just something about that where the charge of the— and the advancement of God's presence in the room is just unbelievable.

And I'll tell you, I mean, there is something— and sometimes you do have to watch church at home, but there is something so special about the corporate anointing, even in a Video Campus. I mean, 'cause the anointing of the praise and worship and the unity and the fellowship of the people that you're connected to, it's just nothing like it. Can't duplicate it.

It's so good. I'm excited about what God's doing. Like I say, we're not fussing. I just wanted to speak to it because some people just throw stuff out like that and then everybody jumps on it. But it's not based biblically whatsoever. And the fact is, God, all the way back at Exodus 17, here's the way to grow and still make sure everybody's cared for. [Speaker:JONI] That's right. He gave the model. And as long as you try to follow the model as best you can— Follow the model. Exactly right. And it's God's model. It's not a corporate model, it's God's model. He said, follow the model. So anyway, excited about it. Excited about you. I'm excited about having my baby doll back with me. And I told them they've had to listen to me by myself. And I think last week was me and Andrew and we had a great talk. But I think they wanna see me and you laugh and you make fun of me and stuff like that. Follow the model. I think that's what they wanna see.

All right, guys, we love you. So glad that you're here. We got Transfer coming right up on the West Coast.

You gotta be there. Yes. Get registered. Get registered.

It's Darius Daniels. SY Younger, Ron Carpenter, Cheryl Brady, Christine Martin.

Red Worship.

Red Worship, Emmy Moore.

Emmy Moore Brookins, I think. Now, is her last B-R? Oh gosh, I can't remember. I think it's Brookins, B-R-O-O-K-I-N-S.

But she's amazing. So be there, get registered. Go to myredemption.cc. [Speaker:CECE] No registration fee.

We just need to hold you a seat.

[Speaker:ERIN] Yes, gotta get you a seat. So many great things going on. Go to hopecarpenter.com/events if you would like to come to one of my retreats. Come Higher retreats, where I have like 12 to 14 ladies together in a house for 3 days. I cook for you. I minister to you. I'd love to have you at one of those. Got so many things to offer you. We love you. But thank you for tuning in today to Ron and Hope Unfiltered. Real, raw, and relevant. [Speaker:RON] See you soon.