Healing After Being Used | Ron + Hope: Unfiltered

Foreign.

Hello, everybody. It's Ron and Hope. Unfiltered. And I am here with the blanket because I'm freezing. Ron is chewing his cough drop as usual. And we're so glad you're here. Real raw and relevant.

How you doing, Ronald?

I really don't like that look.

What look? What look?

What's like, the blanket? Like granny?

I don't care. I'm freezing.

I never wanted you to be a granny.

Y' all will not turn on the heat in here.

Baby, it's a big building. We don't turn on the heat for 3,500 people for a podcast. Well, I'm freezing, but, I mean.

I could let you wear out some leg warmer pants or something.

What?

You know, the workout pants with leg warmers that come up to your knees like ladies.

Not a granny blanket.

Sorry.

I mean, that looks like granny.

It's Christmasy.

No, but it's too late now. So you've already done it?

Yep.

We're already out here and you've already done it.

We just had our Christmas stuff celebration.

That was actually hilarious.

That was fun.

We were playing games. That was hilarious.

That was fun.

Yep.

Yeah.

And what else?

We just had a Red Worship meeting. And what else? Planning our transfer conference.

This will be dropping on Thursday, so. Yeah, Red Worship. Actually, that's tonight. There'll be LA and me. And you're in San Diego.

That's right.

We're speaking at, actually, a corporate function and San Diego. And some of y' all don't know this and not trying to drum up business, but a good while back.

Hope opened up her world to the insurance and wealth management world and did all this studying and took all these tests and. Anyway, it's amazing.

Failed it the first time.

You did. Actually, I remember that you failed it.

The first time I asked questions and.

Then took it again, passed it, and.

Only missed two questions.

And now, what, a year later?

It's two years.

Two years later, she's in the running, actually in her company to win an award for being one of their top people. And I'm like, kudos to you, girl. So let me tell you something. Don't ever think the exploration is over in your marriage. Don't ever get that point. There's nothing new. There is so much more.

Not even just in your marriage, in your life.

I'm just talking about there's so much more in that person. There is this thing that happens in marriages. Okay, I know.

I know you.

I know everything. I know it all. I've seen it all. I know it all. There's no more, what do you call it to you? There's no more adventure. There's no more adventure. There's no more adventure to you. The adventure's up. And now I just got to write out what I know. That is just not the case because one of the principles we're going to talk about in a minute here, you know, it's a treasure in a field. You're always excavating and digging and mining for gold and the person that you have married that there's always gold.

I think in season, you know, different seasons in your life. You know, we get married, that's the honeymoon, then we have children, that's staying at home. That's the seasons. And then seasons change. And so I think people get afraid and they get stuck to explore something different. To go back to college in your 40s or 50s or start a new business.

But you never cease to surprise me though, because I, you know, you're in wealth management, wealth creation that goes along with that insurance field. Because a lot of people do insurance for actually wealth purposes, wealth building purposes. And you, I always knew you as like a wealth liquidator. I never knew you as a wealth increaser.

I knew it.

And so, you know, I'm finding out new things that hope can actually add.

Value to an account instead of deplete an account. So anyway, we knew the liquidation part of hope, but now we're seeing the wealth management part of hope. So anyway, but I just wanted to throw that in there. I've hear so many people like, you know, we've reached the boring stage because there's no adventure left in them. And I think that's probably around that time where, you know, people, they shut the whole thing down and maybe go looking for something else. And I think that's sad because I don't know.

I don't know that all of the burden is on you to show me new, amazing parts of hope. I think the burden is on me to hunt. The burden is on me to explore. The burden is on me to find.

But you always on a hunt.

Yes, I am. I am a hunter.

Yes, you are.

Yes, I am.

Savage hunter.

I just, I'm proud of you. You've done really, really good. She really has.

I really enjoyed it because it is, I think for me it has opened up something creatively in me that was new and it was a challenge.

Everybody needs that.

It pushed me because my brain had always been music or it had always been ministry motivated. You know, that's what we do. That's what we're called to. So I'd never invested in any other part into a different field and it challenged me so deeply.

But it's opened up something as well.

It ain't just challenging. You enjoy it now.

I enjoy it.

You're in the enjoyment stage.

Yes.

I love it.

It's very.

That's done for you. What? You know, people always ask us why California? You know.

California is not the place people run to to find tons of Christians.

And so we were in the Bible Belt, amazing people. And we number one, the reason was we felt the pull of God in apostolic nature to bring something that it had never had before. So it's a calling. That's the first and foremost. But then when you come then in the natural things, it was a challenge to me.

Because I had always done church in church regions. But if you are truly apostolic for God to plant you in an area that is the most. You go from the most churched to the most non churched, you'll find out some things about yourself.

Yeah.

And so I do believe, you know, that's been a challenge this season of our life.

It's been a stretch.

You know, God put us in different challenges to awaken things in us we didn't know we had. You know, if you'd have told me something, you know, and the latter part of a life that Hope wanted to get involved in, I would never have told anybody. Hope will ever do insurance.

Me either.

I want to pick that one.

It came out of a need. It came out of a need and.

I think that's something came out of me. My need.

I think that's something. Those of you who are listening, if you're looking for something to awaken something in you look for a need, you.

Know, the need was my life insurance ran out. I had a 30 year policy.

Both of ours ran out from 25.

When I turned 50, it ran out. And so going and getting life insurance at age 55, that's a whole nother beast. It is than 25.

Nobody thinks about it when you're in your 20s and 30s because you're young and healthy and carefree, get it cheap. But that is when you're supposed to get it is when you're young and healthy and carefree and you don't have high numbers in your A1C and high blood pressure and been in the hospital.

Cholesterol and all those things had bore.

Operations because we found out at 55 it was going to be well, if.

We took that policy astronomical.

If we took that term policy and converted it. It was going to be extremely difficult to afford.

So we started investigating.

Yeah. And we found out so many wonderful.

And you had some people who were teaching said, you know what, you'd be good at this. And so. And here we are.

And I love people.

Yeah. And you've done an amazing job. You love helping people.

I love helping people and educating people. And so it's been a lot of fun. So, yeah, we're going to speak.

That's not what we're talking about. We didn't come here to talk about.

We're going to speak for our conference, for our insurance end of the year awards and conferences.

And here again, it's an opportunity for us to take Jesus outside the church into a corporate gathering. And so I love those opportunities to do that because I had a lot.

Of those founded on faith. That's one of our five pillars.

It's not a church service is faith. It's not a church service. It's a gathering of businessmen and women. So I'm excited about that. We actually want to take our the time we got. And I do know we have a pot store today, don't we?

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Hearing you say that.

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We had a conversation last night and I said, well, let's just. We told them we're going to be real relevant. Let's talk to it about on the podcast because it was a very real conversation. You were laying on the couch. We have some series like Netflix, stuff we watch. We watched an episode and after entertaining some people last night, we got home kind of late, watched an episode. Getting close to your bedtime, not quite mine. And after you cut off the tv, you just laid there. Most of the time you get up, throw the blanket on the back of the couch and you're back there brushing your teeth, getting ready for bed. You didn't do that last night. You just laid there and you said, why do I feel so used?

And you know.

Throughout 35 years of ministry.

Pretty much nonstop, there's always that that looks like they were in it for them and maybe opportunities were there and they got the best of it and moved on.

And so I went over and took your feet, put them in my lap and I sat on the end of the couch and talked to you. And I said, I can't help you. This is the gist of it because we were there an hour and a half. I can't tell you how you manage that. I said, but let me tell you how I deal with that.

And after I tell you that, still don't change the feelings you're having. And I told him, I said that don't make the feeling go away. I said, but in everybody's life, there's nobody that we're talking to.

That somebody didn't take advantage of or may use them. How do you manage that? And I want to throw this in there because I've told this story, but I don't think I've told it on here. I don't think.

One of the most eye opening things that happened to us in ministry is right when we were starting our church, my father paid for me and you to go to a little conference.

Getaway cup.

I forget what it was. Anyway, it was a minister and there was a special part of them that were retired ministers and I think the organization actually paid for them out of honor.

And me and you were wide eyed, just married, starting a church wide open. I mean, you people think I have energy, hope had energy for days. Yeah, I used to, I mean just. And here again, the world's lost. We're going to save this thing, we're going to change it, we're going to turn it around for Jesus. And we started having conversations with all of these retired minister couples and they were the most cynical, bitter, jaded, critical, jaded people I had ever been around in my life. I'd never been around that. The only preacher I'd ever been around was my dad. And my dad was the furthest thing from that.

And I remember me and you, I don't know, going back to our hotel room or whatever that night and I was like, man, it was depressing. I mean, I had one gentleman look at me, I remember he said, if you can do anything else, he said, do it with your life other than this, you need to do it.

Well. A guy who just got out of Bible school and has the Messiah complex, you know, I'm going to go win it for Jesus. Those are not things I'm wanting to hear. So As a young 22 at that time, 22 years old, we didn't understand.

Why they came to you?

No, no. I was like, man, this is the greatest calling in the world. I mean I get to go live for Jesus every day.

Then we lived a few years, right?

Relived a few years. And so the fact is.

The true desire to do right by people.

The true desire to handle conflicts and difficult situations with fairness and justice, the true desire to have looked back and tried to go above and beyond, to be good to people, to be good to people and right any wrong and I can look anybody in the eye and say that's been our M.O.

And to look back. But also the people that came in and just won your trust and devastated you, just devastated you.

How do you manage that?

How do you manage that without being the retired guy on the balcony saying if you can do anything else, go do it. And so we had that talk last.

Night, you know, I don't even think it. We can just like we do, ministry. So that's the perspective we're coming from. But that's in general.

Everybody deals with.

Everybody deals with feeling like you've given a lot and you're taking advantage of or, you know, you've given so much.

And you're being nice. I say, downright deceived, abused. Everybody believes in it.

I'm trying to be nice because last night you kind of rebuked me for being upset.

I said, you're a little sharper than I am in the way.

No, I was saying it to you.

How do you. All right. Okay. So after 35 years, you're still here.

Yep. Still love people.

You still love people. You still out in that foyer on Sundays hugging everybody? We're still down in the altars laying hands, believing God's best for everybody. We lay hands on believing for miracles and believing God changes people every day. We do this because we believe we can help people. We do. But why are you still here?

What I was feeling last night, I mean, is not the masses, it's not the people in the foyer. It's not the praying at the altar. It's always people you know the most. No. Because you can't hurt me unless I love you.

Unless you love you.

Yeah. You can't. I can't be disappointed unless I'm in a relationship. So it's always going to be the people.

We just had some unfortunate scenario by people close to us recently that we've had to just really. We've had to. We've had to manage it.

Yeah.

We just have to manage it. And so a pattern.

So what do you do?

You never have a season where you're.

Free of that because it's the nature of people.

And we're obviously still here, perfect people. Yep. I don't think anybody would say Ron and Hope are bitter people.

No.

And if you are, you probably need to get out of it or at least take a break from it for a while, because if you've been poisoned, you will get on the stage and you'll spew it everywhere.

Yeah. And this isn't even about stage in ministry. I'm talking about we know a couple that we've been working with who. He's just bitter and angry and not even in ministry, but just refuses to.

Get past things that have been done to him.

Yes. And I'm like, but you're dying right now on the inside. You are crumbling and life is going on, but because you choose to hold on to that versus let it go, get past it. He's the one miserable.

I'm going to tell people how I'll do it. I don't know that you ever told me. Last night, like I said, okay, you're still here and you're still doing it. Maybe you might be doing it better than you've ever done it. So how did you manage it?

What did you do with last night's?

What I was feeling with every instance in our past.

What I'm trying to tell you is 35 years, you're still doing what you did.

I will get there.

But it was like, I think you understood me. We've been doing this for 35 years, and it's been happening the whole time, and you're still here doing it. So as a pattern, when this happens to you, how do you flush it? How do you overcome it? How do you go back out in love again?

Last night. It takes me a while to work through, you know, it takes me some quiet time. I usually have to take a day off at home.

You start a project.

Start a project. Process, I think. I listen, I cry. I want to be by myself when I'm processing. And.

You like to talk. You like to talk it out. That's your way. I don't. I want to be quiet and I want to go inward and I want to think and spend time with God and piddle.

I do that, too.

Work it out.

I do both. I do that, too.

But I haven't had that. And I don't think I'll have that time in the next few days.

So, no, you're going to speak. An engagement.

God help me.

Here's how I manage it. And I think some people out there are going to be surprised.

I don't know anybody in my life, Hope. And I think I can say this with a clear conscience before God. I don't know anybody in my life that I haven't forgiven.

I don't think.

And usually I've always said, you can tell you're forgiven when all the desire for revenge is gone, when all the desire to see somebody pay. Are you going to get what you got coming when all that's gone? And when you truly bless those who curse you.

Lord, I just ask you to bless them.

That is when forgiveness has worked its work.

I don't think there's anybody in my life that I want to see them pay or that I want to circle back and get revenge.

I want them to fail. I don't feel any of that.

Here's where people will probably be surprised because some of them have Tried. If you burn me, you don't let them back in, I will forgive you. But I probably. I probably will not try to cultivate that relationship again when Ron's done.

Ron's done?

Yes. They probably would never believe that because that's not the error that I give. But if I loved you and I bring you all the way in and you work me over, I will forgive you. But if you try to come back and have a relationship with me again, the chances of that are slim to none. I just move on.

I can attest I just move on to that.

Why? Because the Bible, the word of God, commands that I forgive you. Because forgiveness is a gift for me. It's not for you. Forgiveness is not letting you or that event have control over my life. And spiritually. It doesn't turn me over to the tormentors, which. That's biblical unforgiveness. Turns you over to tormenting spirits going.

Back to that person. We were talking about that guy. I said, that's why he's so angry and bitter right now. I said, because he's.

Because he hasn't forgiven his wife. And so.

And the Bible says it will.

They're handed over to the tormentors. So.

You know, forgiveness, I have been commanded by God to do, not just for you, but for my health. Nowhere in the word of God have I been commanded to trust.

Trust is repeated reality.

The trust is earned. How is it earned? It's earned by repeated reality. You, by repeated reality, train me what to expect of you. You've trained me not to trust you. You've trained me not to depend on you. Yes.

And distance for you to retrain. And I can trust you.

Very few people. In fact, I can't think of any off the top of my head. If you really just, you know, cut me a new one, have I allowed the space to recultivate. Because trust is a very difficult hill to climb if it's been broken.

It is.

So I have to, like, you know, is it better for me to just move on and say, that was great in the season I had it, or to sit here and pour all this energy into climbing this mountain of rebuilding.

It's so hard. It is so hard when you feel used.

You feel like you've been done wrong.

To.

Slip into the first Corinthians 13.

Love believes the best, bears all things.

Hopes all things, suffers all things.

It is so hard because.

You see what you see and you feel justified in. Yes, you did use me. You. You know what I'm saying? The transaction was off.

So you're valid in your feelings. But the word still says.

Love does this. Love responds this way.

So I think it's that. That gap of working through your legitimate feelings.

You know, because they're real, you feel that way, and maybe the act was real, maybe it really was justified that you feel that way.

I don't know that the feelings aren't supposed to be legitimate.

Right. But then it's that of having to work through and process the forgiveness, the putting it at the foot of the cross, the repositioning yourself into faith again. And okay, and the truth of God's word is this. If I really want to be a fruitful God follower person who smells good, smells fruit, fruity, you know, bearing the fruit of the spirit. It's just that, that process of time that you got to go through, just like the process of time of healing a broken bone or healing open heart surgery, it is a healing process. So I think those of you who are listening don't need to feel shame.

That you are in a hurt place or a frustrated place or a jaded place. All of those feelings are natural. It's part of a process. And healing is a process. It's not, oh, they did this to me. And immediately, five minutes later, I'm okay. That is not even realistic. That's not realistic at all. But healing is a process and you need to take time, however you process pain so that you can heal.

Pardon me. The way.

Pastor Ron, how do you do it? I've been asked this actually by a lot of people.

You know.

Church is rampant with church hurt. So, Pastor Ron, how. You know, I see you get up and preach and the love of God and tears are coming down your face and you're down and off to hugging people and you got makeup all over your shirt and sweat and tears and.

How.

But it's never those people.

Well, I mean, but that is. You're still doing that. You're still loving on that level. When you have been abused in so many ways, how are they doing that? He's not talking about those people did it to you. He's talking about you still get back up and love exudes. Okay? Because the Bible talked about in the end days, people's love will wax cold.

And so this is what I was telling you last night. I said, I can't fix how you're feeling. And feelings are very valid.

But I said, here's the way I do it. This sounds so, like, the bar is so low. I have embraced.

That.

I am dealing with fallen people.

We're all human.

Yeah. I don't. And I'm not standing on my pedestal of unfallen looking at all the fallen. We are redeemed. I'm not saying that we are saved. We are redeemed.

But there's parts of my mind I'm still working on parts of my soul. My body fights God. The Bible says the flesh is the enemy of God. And so I just have embraced.

You know, I have a little joke with you. When somebody's almost too good to be true, I said, I'm waiting, waiting for the shoe to drop when I bring somebody in my life and it's like I've had six months of just total bliss with them. And I'm like, man, that makes me nervous. And that's sad to say, but the fact is, what has repeated reality trained me that, you know, there comes a time where you'll see the not so good side. So it's not that people haven't ever. You know, I'm sure somebody may have had to sit in a room sometime and deal with the way I've heard them. I certainly didn't mean to. That ain't my desire. But I'm sure somebody feels like maybe Ron didn't treat them right. But the way I do it is I really take to heart hope. That is very real scripture to me. The kingdom is like. I'm a kingdom guy. Whenever I hear Jesus say the kingdom is like. He tells me it's like a lost son. He tells me it's like a pearl of great price. He tells me it's like a widow who lost a mite. He tells me it's like wheat and tares. He tells me it's like the ten virgins. I mean, he's got all these things he's trying to communicate. This is kingdom life. Well, he also says the kingdom is like a treasure hidden in a field. Great things hidden inside of dirty things. Yes. And I've just that I have embraced that. So when I get let down, my bar is set so low. I don't drop far.

But. And let me just stop right here. We agreed on that last night. We all have, good and bad. Of course we're going to be let down by people. My frustration. But how do you handle that relationship now? And my thing was Matthew 18. There has to be. It can't just be, oh, that's the way it is. And I'm just going to let them keep being human and hurting me and doing what they do. No, I said I felt like there needed to be A conversation. Because Matthew 18 says, if you have ought with your brother, go to them. And I said, we need to. I feel like that would be closure for me or some help for me. Do they even understand how they made me feel or what they did? And that was where I was frustrated.

Contention.

The contention with you last night was you were just like, well, I just hope that they'll see it themselves. And I'm like, no, we need to set up an appointment.

We can. You have probably greater faith in those appointments than I do, because I've had many of those appointments. And they don't always come to a place of, you know, reconciliation, but the way. That's just the way I deal with it. And so I think what I was trying to tell you is.

We. Whenever somebody hurts me, when everybody hurts you, they hurt us. Ain't no such thing as just you or just me. I mean, we're one. They hurt us.

The hurt don't usually run as deep with me anymore. The counselor, Ms. Denise Boggs, who counseled me the first time ever when we were trying to reconcile things, told me about my second or third time being with her. She said, I ain't even been around you much. She said, I can already tell you love hard. Remember she made that. She said, I never even heard that statement. Loving hard. She said, you love hard. And I do. I don't have a big circle. I don't. My life is somewhat lonely. I have a very small circle. But the people that are in my circle, I love those people all the way. Okay? And so when any type of injury comes from that circle.

Those are the things where you struggle to pull out of that. But everybody else is limited in how much things hurt me. Because over time, I have learned boundaries. Over time, I have learned to try to qualify people getting through my circles and getting in my inner circle over time, much of it through pain and time, I have learned to understand that I don't care how anointed and how gifted and how holy they are. Wrong day, the wrong time, the wrong things. Anybody can hurt anybody. And so I've embraced it as it's part of it. I don't know if that makes anybody feel any better, but the question is, how do I manage it? I've just embraced it. That is part of the deal. It's just part of the deal. If you're going to do. If you're going to do what we do.

No, if you're going to breathe, yeah.

But if you're. But if you're. But you know, People who work for corporations don't have to put their heart on the line. They put their skills on the line. Yeah, they put their skills on the line. We are in a place where we have to try to win souls and win hearts, which usually means putting your heart on the line. And when it gets trampled, you know, if you just, if you take your heart out of it, then you lose your ability to be effective. I can tell when somebody's heart ain't in it and they're going through the motions. That is just dead man, dry bones.

Well, because of what we do, our relationships are in the ministry world. But everybody listening has, has had relationship fails and heartache. So how do you manage it and then how do you fix it? I have to take time. I have to get by myself. I have to have quiet time. But then I also do believe that the Bible does give us clear instruction in Matthew 18. If we have relationship fails that you need to go to them and you need to be honest and you need to speak the truth in love. Not a fight, but speak the truth in love. And if you know if they receive it, then praise God. If they don't, usually the relationship will not continue.

For those who don't know, say, what does Matthew 18 say? The Bible says if you have ought, would you rather go to them? Go to them and be reconciled. And then the Bible says if you can't get it done between you two, then you go take a witness. And the Bible says out of the mouth of two or three witnesses a matter is established. In other words, bring mediators into hear it who are not biased by the situation but are totally objective in the situation. And then says, if you still can't do it, then said, bring it before the church. Bring it before the church leadership. Go to someone in leadership. But the Bible really don't want you going into the worldly court because natural things can't discern spiritual things. And so the church actually should have leaders set up in it who can serve as the mediators between people who have had fractured relationships. But that's how I do it. And you said, give me a thing. What do I always tell you when somebody does something to me? I said, give me a day to flush it. That's what I have to do. I don't have to have a project. I don't have to.

But mine is not a day of just normal business coming to the office and doing. I have to have time to myself.

I have to have a day. It takes me about a day to flush it don't take me a month. Yeah, give me a day. I can get this out of my system. I'll get my. I'll complain, I'll speak how that hurt me and then I'll get my confession back. Right. I'll get my faith back. Right. I'll dig back in. I'll let God center me. But you know, there is that. You know, you're feeling it. And I do believe your mouth is the ventilation shaft of your heart. I do think, you know, by talking about positive confession, I do believe that feelings have to be gotten out.

Yes, absolutely.

Because if you just internalize them, they'll explode.

It's just living a lie.

And so, you know, I need a day to. And that's usually where I'll ask you, let me talk it out.

Yeah.

Even if I got nothing to do with you, if I'm talking about them.

Yeah, you want to talk to them.

I want to talk. And that talking is me blowing out the steam. And then I'll go back and get with God. And you know that, you know me. I'll go back to God and I'll get myself right. I'll jerk myself back in shape.

Well, we have been hunting for 38 minutes, so.

And some of them are loving hearing it. Some of them are loving hearing it.

To wrap it up. So Christmas is right around the corner. If you are in San Jose, the Northern California area, or if you are in Greenville, South Carolina, the upstate of South Carolina, we want to invite you to our Christmas service that is Sunday, December 21st at 9:00am, 11:00am and 1:00pm Candlelight Christmas service, children's choir, adult choir. We got a lot of acting and just fun stuff going to be happening.

Online on our websites. Online is our social media website. Social media sites. So if you want to do it virtually, you can. But boy, if you can get in the building.

That's right. And then January 15th, 16th and 17th, calling all queens, ladies from all over, Please go to hopecarpenter.com events and register today. I promise you it's going to be life changing. It'll be an appointment that God has with you to unlock something on the inside of you that maybe has been laying dormant. And you know that God has called you to more. We're going to unlock that in San Antonio, Texas. So I want you to register and meet me there. But until then, it's Ron and Hope Unfiltered, real raw, relevant. We love you.

Thank you guys.