Hope + Ron: Unfiltered - Understanding Men with Guest: Daniele Hage

Foreign. Hello, everybody. It's Ron and Hope. Unfiltered, but, however, this is not Ron.

Nope.

This is my friend Danielle Hage. And I am so happy you're with me today.

I am so honored to be with you today.

Yes, we are going to sit here and bash men today, and. No, we're not going to do that. We're going to talk about how amazing they are. Yes. And how unique that God created them. How different we are.

Very different.

Yeah. But, you know, a lot of times the reason we have so many relationship fails is because we don't have any understanding.

That's right.

We just don't have understanding. And, Danielle, I have to just kind of toot your horn for a minute. Danille has just kind of gone viral on Instagram and reels. She's been studying relationships and men. Been doing conferences for years. But your new podcast and your reels has just really taken off and just. I think just this morning hit over 10 million views on one reel.

Yes. Isn't that crazy?

It is crazy.

We are all shocked. We just. We're like, wow, we must have touched a nerve here.

Yeah. Right. So we're gonna talk about some of those same things. You know, I've been married 33 years. How long have you been married?

43.

43. So we have 76 years between us combined. I think we can help somebody.

I think so.

What you think? I think so. We've learned some things. We've weathered some storms. We've made it. We're still here. Haven't killed anybody. That's right.

That's right.

Right. We're not dead. So we're just gonna kind of try to help some of the women out there just try to understand men a little better. A little better. So talk to the listeners first about this reel.

Okay. Okay.

That went viral.

Okay. So in the reel, it's under a minute long. And I say men relate completely differently to their feelings than a woman relates to hers.

Okay. That's easy.

We're very different.

It's easy to accept. Right. Okay, keep going.

And I just said that men, they don't really trust feelings. They trust facts.

Right.

It's about if you want to get to know a man, you find out what he stands for, what it is he values, what facts he trusts. Women are more emotional. No. Men. Yeah, Right.

Who knew? No.

And this is like, this is not anything new. Right. And men are more logical, and that's a good thing. But I think that's the reel that went viral, and I think the feedback that I've gotten is that men are saying, thank you for understanding us. And I asked my husband, we were talking earlier, I said, I don't think I realized, even though I've been talking about men for over 20 years, I didn't realize how misunderstood men feel by women. Like they're saying to me, I feel heard, I feel understood. And the thing that I thought was so amazing is that different men are saying, protect this woman at all costs. And I told my husband, I said, isn't that interesting? So when men feel like women get them, that women understand them, they're compelled to protect them.

That's so good.

I'm like, okay, women, do you. I mean, this is what men are saying. And it's interesting because I'm getting pushback from the women, getting pushback from them.

That's so funny to me.

Yeah, yeah.

And we talked about this at length. I said, but I do think, Danil, I think the reason maybe because when you see something that triggers something on Instagram or anywhere on social media, you just start typing immediately. So you don't have the time or the luxury of the backstory. And to say, why I feel this way. And you know, a lot of women are probably saying, well, he doesn't get me. Like, you don't know how he's treated me in the past. So I get all that. But if we will stop and shut our mouths, ladies, and listen to what you were trying to say because you weren't attacking the woman.

No, no, no, no. I'm just saying we're different.

That's it.

It's like. And why ladies would you want to push back on understanding men? Because the men are saying, yes, this is 100% true. I'm more logical. Women are more emotional. Neither is good or bad or right or wrong. They just are. I'm not saying women are bad for being emotional. And I'm not saying men don't feel. Men have feelings. Men have emotions. We are both married to very emotional men.

Yes.

We are very passionate men. Very verbal men.

Yes.

So a lot of men, you know, their relationship to communication is to conceal where a woman's is to reveal. Not so for our men, our men are talkers.

Yes, they are. They do that for a living. Yes. And it comes so natural.

Yes. And I am surrounded. My son, my husband and my son in law are all very verbal men. So it's not like. No men are verbal or talkers or emotional. They all are emotional. And everybody has their different degrees of emotion or logic. And you were Saying earlier that you seem to be more of the logical one in your relationship at times, Right?

I can be.

Yeah. And me too. I can be that way too. Cause my husband, I'm like, hurry up.

And get to the point. I mean, this happened yesterday. Ron was telling me something, but he had already said, and he was rehearsing it. I don't know if Steve does this, but he will say it and say it again and go back and say it again. Almost like a three point sermon. Like, you know, like he's talking to me like he's given me a sermon and I'm like, okay, I've heard it. Next. That's what I say. And he goes, he doesn't like that. He wants to be able to process it all the way out, express it all the way out.

Right.

So I'm having to sit there and count one, 1,000 and be Jesus, help me.

Well, and I've seen the change in Steve and I, and I learned this, that the reason that is, is it's about our hormones. Because as we get older, we become more single, focused more on the logical side. And as men age, they become more sensitive, more emotional.

So they become everything we prayed for early on in the marriage.

Right, right.

Then we've changed. Yes.

And we are both changing as we get older. And I've noticed my husband, I mean, he's more sentimental, he show emotions more, and I tend to be the one. Give me the bottom line. Yeah, just like that. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm turning into a man and he's turning into a woman. It's like, I can see the changes.

Yeah.

And you know, as men age, they get more like they want to cuddle after sex more. Where now women, we're like, I gotta.

Go do the laundry.

Yeah, I got things to do, or I'm gonna turn the TV now. And it used to be the exact opposite, so it's kind of cute, you know?

It is.

That's just how we're made. Again, it's not good or bad or right or wrong. Okay. I'm not saying women are bad or men are bad. It's just we're different and we need to accept those differences.

I think, though, that you did hit a nerve, you know, on that one reel, because you were almost an advocate.

For a man, for the man. And that's what the men are speaking up saying. Thank you for speaking up for us. And I was like, what? Like, why is this such a big deal with the men? And I think they feel Understood. And I think women have a lot to learn about men so that we can understand, so we can accept. Because women have a tendency to want to change men. You know, I always say that when a woman gets married, she looks at a man or she's about to get married, she looks at a man, she looks him up, down and says, okay, how much potential for change does he have?

Oh, that's okay, I'll change that about him. I'll change that.

I'll get him to do his hair right, I'll teach him how to dress, I'll teach him some manners.

Right.

And then men look at women, they think, I don't want her to ever change.

Right. When they're getting married, she's everything I ever wanted. But then we do change.

Yeah, we do. We all change.

We do.

But I think for women it's like it becomes a hindrance in their relationship. And I always, like I've told my daughters, you know, before they got married, or any young women that, you know, don't marry a man that you can't live with the way he is right now forever if you cannot live with him and you're not willing to accept who he is right now because don't bank on him changing much. And yes, we grow and we evolve, of course, but you know, he is who he is.

Right. And we are who we are.

Right, right.

It's true.

But men don't try to change women as much as women try to change men.

I agree.

We're always trying to fix them, clean them up, get them to behave right, get them to act right, you know.

You know, cause Ron always says the big versions are only just stretched 8 year olds. And we see that and we're wanting to change certain things about them. But you know, Ron still makes a mess when he eats, he still makes a mess when he's getting ready. He still leaves things laying in the floor. And you know, I just, I was telling my daughter in law this the other day, I was saying, you know, you've got to get to a place where you're like, I'm not going to stress out over these things that drive me crazy.

Pick your battles.

Yes. Just let it go. Right, Just that Disney movie, Let it Go. I sing that a lot in my head. Let it go.

That's a great place to be in to let the little things go. There's enough that we have to argue over. We don't have to nitpick the small stuff. And women, you know, they can get nitpicky. We can we can be very nitpicky. I heard one therapist say one time, and I love this. I memorized it and I say it all the time now. If it's not illegal, immoral or unethical, keep your mouth shut.

Yeah.

If you don't have to call a doctor, a lawyer or a policeman or a pastor, just be quiet, let it go. Like, let's pick our battles.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Danielle. We have some amazing sponsors for our podcast and Chime is one of them. I don't know if you've heard about them, but they're amazing. Summer is the season of spending vacations, European trips, getting your kids ready for school, and it's already here. Do it right with Chime's online checking account. Chime's online checking account has tons of benefits that millions of members love. Like fee free overdraft up to $200 plus get paid up to two days early with direct deposits, all while managing your money on the go 24 7. That means more time and money for beach trips and summer Friday splurges. You can also pay friends through Chime, no matter what bank account they use and cash out your money fee free. Sign up for Chime today and make this summer the best one yet for yourself and your wallet. Get started@chime.com ronandhope that's chime.com Ron and Hope Banking. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank. NA or stroud. Right. NA members, FDIC eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Access to direct deposits up to two days early depends on the timing of the submission of the payment file from the payer. Out of network. ATM withdrawal fees may apply. We love you so much, Chime. You've been such an amazing sponsor for Ron and Hope. Unfiltered. So back to understanding men. I don't think there's a book you can read. I don't think there is. Like, if you do the ABCs, one, two, threes, we're gonna give you in 30 minutes how to understand men. No, but I think like we said earlier, Danil, is it's that you need to want to.

Right, Right.

That you should have an open heart and an open head to say, yeah, God made us different.

Yeah.

And we're different on purpose.

Yes. And for good reason.

I have everything that he doesn't have because God took me out of him. So everything that he needs is in me and everything that I need is in him. So we have each other's back. We have each other's blind spots. And I think if you look at it that way, it helps it to be a little more palatable when you hit those differences. Now I was asking you earlier when we were talking about this, what would you say a biggie is a difference? A biggie.

A biggie.

A biggie. A difference in men.

Okay, well, there's lots. Yeah, there's lots. But I would say another one is the way that a man relates to his needs compared to the way a woman relates to her needs. Because for a man, his needs are critical and urgent. They're direct and immediate. If he needs something, he doesn't put it on his birthday list or wait till next Christmas like a woman would. It's like, oh, my bra is tattered and ripped. Oh, no, the kids need other things. I'm gonna put that on my list. But I'm not gonna get my need met. Because the way that we relate to our needs is self sacrificing. We're gonna take care of everybody else first, make sure the house is taken care of, the staff is taken care of, the children are taken care of, and I come last. And I'm not saying that's a good thing, okay? Because. But for a man and I, we can learn this from man, from men. Like, if Steve is hungry, he eats now he doesn't wait till dinner, he'll go get in the pantry and I'll be like, no, I'm making dinner.

I know, I'm like, please don't ruin the dinner that I'm over here making.

Right? But his needs are direct and immediate. So. And like for us, because we're so self sacrificing, a lot of times it turns us into that drama queen. Or there are some other explicit words we could say that people call women when they're cranky, right? Because we're not getting our needs met. And I think that's just something that we need to understand. We relate differently to needs. But women will think men are selfish. They're selfish for getting their needs met. And I think that's so key. If a man, he'll say, you know, I can't be present or meet your need until I've eaten or until I've taken a nap or until I've got.

The sports attention, or I wanna hurry up and go, I wanna go work out. And you're sitting here saying, but I wanna work out.

Right? Right. But I'll put our skills last.

Right?

But men are like, no, this is what I need. And then I can be more available. I can be present for you if I can get my need met. And I think for women, because we, a lot of times put ourselves last. Something that I was taught early on in my marriage is not to do that. Take care of myself for me. Take care of myself for me so that I have the energy to nurture and serve and care and provide, you know, for my family.

And you're not resentful.

Right, Right. And I'm not exhausted and wiped out. I never get to exercise, never eat right, never take the time to get my nails done or get my hair done, because everybody else has needs. And I think we need to think enough of ourselves to get our needs met. Our needs are important, too.

Yeah. You know, one thing Ron and I had to tackle through the years was just actually being able to communicate that.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I think we keep these things in our head and in our heart, but we never sit down like this. Right.

And we don't know how to express it in those.

Yeah. Because we think that they should know it.

Right. And that is such a woman thing. That is such a woman thing. Doesn't he know I'm upset? Why isn't he asking me what's wrong? Number one, Amanda doesn't want to come to a woman if she's upset because he's like, oh, no, no, no, no.

I'm running.

I'm going to the garage, Going to my cave, going to my cave. But I did a little experiment one time. I thought, you know, I am not going to initiate any. Any thing to do with Steve, like, any time together. I'm gonna wait. I just gotta wait and let him initiate doing something together.

Well, that's when it happens.

And do you know, I think two months went by and I went, oh, well, he never initiated anything. And I realized, oh, maybe that's my role. Because whenever I initiate, you know, let's go do. He's always up for it.

Yeah.

But if he's. Think about it, he's not identified with something else. But I'm playing this game, and it's like, that was dumb, you know, and who suffered? Me. But whenever I say, hey, what do you think about? And not that he never initiates, but there was just that time, and he was very focused, very single focused. I think we had just started our church or something, and so he was busy and he was preoccupied. So it wasn't really fair to him that I was doing this without him even knowing about it because he wants to spend time with me.

Right.

But I Think women, a lot of times do those kinds of things to kind of manipulate men into. He should just not that I want to hang out. He should just know that I'm upset. He should be a mind reader. And men are not mind readers. They're very literal. You want him to know something, say it. Be specific in as few words as possible.

Now, that is. That's huge.

That's key, right?

Yes. As few words and not high emotions don't come at it. See, what did that make you feel right there? Just listening when we raised our octave and we've got our tension all up. And that's exactly how they feel too. But I know sometimes you get to that point because you've kept it in so long.

That's right.

And you're so bitter, you're so resentful at this point that it just comes out like gushing hot water. So to save yourself from that trauma and to save him and everybody in the home, you have to have times where you have conversations that aren't just sitting around talking about the kids. I'm talking about point on point. These are my feelings, these are my needs. These are what I expect. This is what I need from you.

Right.

And it makes people feel weird sometimes to have to sit down and say that because you really do want them to know.

So when you have something that you need to tell your man, your husband, your boyfriend, wherever you're at in your life, this is what I would suggest. Say to them, I need to talk to you. You're not in trouble. Everybody's okay. Because men, generally speaking, always think when a woman needs to talk to them, something's wrong. Yeah, they're in trouble. So if you don't say you're not in trouble, he's got to come to the conversation defensive already, like, okay, what she got from me, I know I'm already in trouble. He's going to want to defend himself. But if you just say, hey, I just need some time to talk. And then when you get the time again, be specific. Don't put all the feeling and emotion in it like you just said, just be specific. Tell him what it is you need and tell him what it would provide for you if he can meet that need, if he can help you in whatever way, I need this, this is what it will provide for me. And be just very. Again, in as few words as possible. And because he'll be much more open to listening and to hearing you if you're unemotional. And it's not that you can't have emotion. It's not that you can't say how you feel, but I think for women, too, we have to remember we are responsible for our feelings.

That's true.

They are not responsible. They're not responsible to make you happy.

No.

They hold themselves accountable, though, for your happiness. Men do. They feel very accountable for their wife's happiness. In fact, they look at other men's wives and they go, oh, my gosh, she is so happy.

And.

And they respect the man for that. Men respect men whose wives are happy. They, like, give them the credit, like, more power to you, dude. That's a respectable thing for a man.

And they don't even know it's biblical.

Exactly.

We're their glory. We're the man's glory.

And they're designed that way. They want to meet our needs. But so many times women withhold information they need to meet our needs because we think, well, he should just know. We go back to, why does he know? Oh, see how insensitive he is to me? Doesn't he know I'm not speaking to him? Not if you didn't tell him.

Right.

You weren't speaking to him.

That's not even biblical on our part. You know, love believes the best.

That's right. That's right.

We hope that love hopes the best. It believes the best. I should look at my husband and say, he doesn't know.

Right? Right.

Because I haven't told him. Instead of assuming, oh, he knows, and he's just not giving it to me.

Right.

He just doesn't want. Yeah. He just wants me to be miserable.

You know, I talked to a young man, married, and he was telling us about some issues with him and his wife at one point, and he said, she thinks that I purposely am trying to hurt her because I didn't put the Tupperware in the right cupboard. And I thought. And this was real for him, he goes, she thinks I'm doing it on purpose. A healthy man in general is never trying to hurt a woman. Now, I know there's some dysfunctional men out there that want to hurt women. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about normal, healthy men. They never want to hurt a woman's feelings. In fact, they do everything, especially about her.

We're just saying.

So silly, Right? But she had it in her mind he's doing this on purpose because it.

Was important to her.

Yeah. And it wasn't important to him. And what happens when we think about what's important to me isn't important to him. He's got issues. He needs therapy. He wasn't raised right.

But we like our Tupperware second from the bottom. Come on, now. You can't get this little thing right. The Tupperware.

Yeah.

And again, you didn't have to call the police. You didn't have to call the pastor. No, the ice is not burning down.

A lawyer, a fireman.

Let it go. Let it go. Exactly.

And in that one particular situation, as it turns out, one of the kids had removed the Tupperware from where the husband had put it, and she was blaming the husband for it. Isn't that sad? And I just think if we can understand how men are wired, then we can have so much more compassion for them and grace. And it's going to better your relationships with all the men in your life. Your dads, your brothers, your co workers, your employers, your employees, your sons.

We.

But we have to strive to want to understand.

Absolutely.

And not push back because it's something you don't like to hear, lady.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it used to aggravate me so bad. This is so stupid. That Ron would open the refrigerator and just stand there and say, where's the mayonnaise? But hasn't moved a thing. No, they don't move. Hasn't touched a thing.

Nope.

Hasn't investigated, but just opens it and stands and says, where's the mayonnaise? I mean, literally, probably 20 years. It aggravated me so bad. We've been married 33 the last 13. I finally said, you know what? Everything in the refrigerator is going to have a place because he doesn't know where things go and he doesn't investigate. So I'm going to make it easy on him and me. The mayonnaise, ketchup, and mustard all go.

Here on this shelf every time.

Every single time. So, you know, I just nip that in the bud. Right. That's so great, because I understood his nature and that he wasn't going to do that.

He's single. Focus. All he sees is the front row. And if the mayonnaise is in the front row, it's not there. Steve does the same thing. I'll go second shelf, behind the mill. Yeah, I know exactly. I had that scan vision. I know exactly where it is. And I just tell him. And I'm like, did you move anything when you were looking? Oh, no. I'm like, okay, that's why you didn't find it.

Right.

And again, it doesn't mean they're bad. Doesn't mean they're.

These aren't Marriage busters.

No, these are just, this is just a man, the way his brain is set up and the way a woman's brain is set up, we're just different. And that's okay. Differences are okay.

Absolutely. What about in sex? How are we different?

Oh, my gosh. You want to get me started on that? Okay, let's go.

All day, huh? Yes.

Yes. Well, as you all know, number one, men have way more testosterone than women ever have.

And it's a joke. I'm really gonna talk to God about that. That is not fair. If he created us to have sex, and he clearly did, by the dynamics of our body, why did he give them all the testosterone and that we don't have it?

Right? I know, I know. Our hormones are set up so completely different. So completely different. And, you know, I guess, you know the mandate to, you know, reproduce and multiply and fill the earth, Right. Men had to have a lot of testosterone to do that.

Right?

But that's one of the biggest differences. So his sex drive, of course, is going to be way stronger than a woman's. Unless he is under stress for a long period of time, that will diminish his sex drive. Or sick or not eating right or exhausted or, you know, stressed out. So that's one of the biggest differences. And what I always tell women is because of that, that testosterone thing, women think men are dirty, nasty, perverted horn dogs, right? Okay. And that is not fair, ladies, they can't help it. Their testosterone is what drives them. That's right. And you know what? It's okay. It's not a bad thing. And so, okay, so another reel that I did that got millions of plays and lots of interaction. I said, my daughter in law, who was, we were talking and she said, so what happens when you're just too tired for sex? Because it's usually the women that are too tired. Rarely is it the man, right. Because of his testosterone levels. And I said, well, it's kind of like this. I compare it to going to the gym. You know, a lot of times we don't want to go to the gym. We get up in the morning like, ugh, I don't want to go. But you make yourself, you discipline yourself.

You feel and you feel better afterward.

And you never regret it. You never walk out of the gym going, darn, I wish I didn't come to the gym. No, you got those endorphins and you're feeling good. I'm so glad I didn't give in to what I wanted to do. Stay in Bed. And I went. So I thought, why? What if we just looked at sex like that? I'm not in the mood, I'm tired. I know it's good for me. I know it's good for me.

It's good for the man.

I know he'll be so happy. I'm just gonna go ahead. Because afterwards, look, there's a big payoff for everybody. Like he feels great, you feel great. Even if, and I don't know, is this okay to talk about Even if. Can I say it?

It's real raw. Real raw, unfiltered.

That's right.

Okay, go.

Even if the woman doesn't get an orgasm. Because when I posted that, then I get all the comments from women. What if it's not great for me? What if I don't get a payoff at the end? Okay, but what would be wrong with doing, I call it, you know, like a drive through fast food session rather than fine dining. Right. So you do a quickie for him, let him get off, let him be pleasured for the man you love. What's wrong with doing that?

Right.

Like I don't. Women, I won't make it too personal. Women don't have to have an orgasm every single time. No, I'm not saying we don't want one.

Right. But emotionally and physically, we don't like.

For a man to be stimulated and length of time and then not get.

That release he has to.

That's painful in the physical, for a woman it's not. Right.

And we enjoy the closeness.

Exactly. And the touch and the.

That's hard for a man to understand sometime.

Right.

But sometimes we enjoy just that.

Yes.

Intimacy of being together physically.

And I like to tell men that if for a woman because I guess her feelings are very important to her. Ask her in the evening, you know, so what is it you wanna feel tonight? What is it that you want? And it could be anything from I need a screaming orgasm to you know what? I just want you to touch me and caress me and massage my body like it is the most beautiful thing you've ever seen. And find out, like for me.

Or it could be just cover me when you're finished.

Or it could be going to bed. Going to. That's always been a joke with me and my husband too. But yeah, like, find out what a woman needs to feel and if you can make that happen for her. Because guys, you're going to get yours. Men rarely leave the bed without getting satisfied. And so even for a woman, I don't think and Again, ladies, don't get mad at me. And men don't go say, hey, that lady on the podcast said, you don't need an orgasm. How are you gonna get me in trouble?

Yeah, they'll hear what they want to hear.

Yeah, exactly. I've seen that through social media, too. How people twist your words.

Oh, my goodness. But you know, Danil, the whole everything, the few things we talked about today, there's never enough time. I know, but I'm having you back next week, remember? Okay. Yes. So. But the bottom line is it's getting your feelings and your emotions out of it and standing back and saying, I'm gonna give up my right to be. Right. Right. So good. I'm going to. I want to seek to understand.

Right.

I want to open the lines of communication on whatever area, whether it's your sexual needs, your. Your communication.

Right.

How you hear I love you. Whatever it is, it is being willing to sit down and stop assuming and stop judging and harboring bitterness and withholding and all the games we play in marriage when they're. This is the number one relationship that you will ever have. It's more important than your children. It's more important than your friends. That's right. It's more important than your parents, under God. It is the number one relationship. I want mine to be good.

Yeah. You've got to guard it, protect it, nurture it. And you have to talk. You have to have conversation. Your relationship is only as good as your communication. So take the time. Find a way to communicate. You know, some people I know that aren't real verbal or they can't really express themselves. They don't have the words. Like, they don't have the words. But those people are really good, Usually, generally are good at writing.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right. So the people who can't speak write.

Right.

Usually, authors don't make great speakers, and great speakers don't make great authors. So I've always told people, like, can you send it in a text? Can you send it in email? Write it in a card, and then.

Just say you read it. And I'm sitting right here. This is everything I want to say.

Yes. And that means you have to be vulnerable. But we've got to practice vulnerability, because the only way to connect is if we're vulnerable. Meaning unzipping yourself and saying, this is me.

This is all the truth, the good.

The bad, and the annoying.

Yeah. Right.

And if both people are willing to make themselves vulnerable, that makes for an awesome, intimate connection.

It does. And even outside of marriage, in Friendship. Absolutely. Any relationship, if you will employ these and understand, you did not marry an identical twin.

Right. For good reason. We'd be bored to death.

Right. You did not marry you. Yeah. You married an individual. You're dating someone totally different than you. There's nobody like you. God made you so unique and so special, and he made those other people unique and special. And we have to learn to value that. We have to honor that.

Yes.

We have to prefer that.

Yes.

And we have to give up our right to be right in relationships many times for the good of the relationship.

If you want to stay married. Yeah.

Yeah. Because you'll never get everything you want.

That's right. Of course. Because there is no perfect people.

No.

There's no perfect. I'm not perfect.

No.

My husband isn't perfect. We're perfect for each other. With all our imperfections.

Yes.

Right. But that's why there's so much conflict, I think, you know, with. In any relationship is cause we're different from one another and especially between men and women. Because we are so different.

God made.

That's right, different. So we have to learn to acknowledge the differences, accept them and appreciate them. Appreciate the difference.

Absolutely. Well, it's been awesome. Listen, we do marriage conferences every year. Every February. This year it's gonna be on the East Coast. 2024 will be in Greenville, South Carolina. Go to roncarpenter.com you can get registered for that. It's called Help. I'm married.

I love that. I love it.

And we would love to have you there. I know Danielle has so much great rich content. You gotta go follow her on Instagram, follow her reels. So much that she can offer you on there. And we're glad that you tuned in today. We hope we helped you. We hope we didn't tick you off. Sure we did. Because, you know. No, you know, first the truth offends you, and then once you sit down a minute and chew it and embrace it, it can help you. The truth that can help you will always offend you first.

Right? Right.

Always.

Yeah. Isn't that interesting?

It is. Yeah. Because it rubs up against everything we believe. That's true. That's right.

That we've been taught differently, that our culture maybe has taught us about the opposite sex. That may just not be true.

It's true. Well, thank you so much for being here. We love you so much. Until next time, it's Ron and Hope. Well, Ron and Hope and Danielle. Unfiltered, real, raw and relevant.