How To Argue | Ron + Hope: Unfiltered

Hey everybody, it's Ron and Hope Carpenter. Real, raw, relevant. And this is season— can you believe this is season 5?

Yep.

5th year we've been doing this. We got a lot to say, you know it. You got a dirty shirt too.

I got food on my shirt and you did Tide Stick. Yeah. But it didn't work.

Most of it came out, babe.

It didn't work.

But the other night on your white pajama t-shirt, you had a whole ring right here.

I got fajitas on my shirt.

Fajitas. Leftover fajitas. And at night you like go scrounging and you want something to eat. The next morning, I saw your t-shirt and it had a whole big old— looked like marinara, but it was fajitas. I mean, what did you do? Did you miss your mouth?

It fell off the fork.

Wow.

I was sitting on the couch and I had to catch it with my shirt so it wouldn't hit the couch.

Good. Thank you. I appreciate that.

I don't want to feel wrath.

Yes, because there would have been—

I don't want to feel nighttime wrath.

There would have been. I can put some bleach on that t-shirt.

Tell them how tired we are.

We're tired, but it's all good.

Somebody said we looked energized and we looked at them.

I know, in staff meeting, Lacey said, "You look energized." I was like, "Are you joking right now?" We were just talking on the plane this morning about how we beat, just feel beat. We did the services this weekend, jumped on a plane Monday morning, which was supposed to be our day off, went to New York.

No day off.

And with my business, it's been crazy.

We had a meeting that night, Monday night. Then we had what, 7:30 to 8:30 last night?

All day yesterday, from 7:30 in the morning till about 9:30 last night.

And then we woke up at 5:30 this morning and flew into Greenville. Came back in time for staff meeting.

Staff meeting.

So we are dragging a little bit. Well, I don't get, you know what? I'm a quick recuperator. Always have been.

Yep.

But that Monday thing with me—

You need your Monday.

I need that Monday. I don't like to travel on Monday 'cause traveling is not a day off. And when I skip it, and it ain't that there's something I need to go do.

No, it ain't.

My mind needs no schedule. That's what I need. I need it 'cause I told you, my body can plow on through. I really am. But my head gets tired. And what I do every day requires me to lock in. And when I get tired, first thing I have a hard time doing is focusing. 'Cause you know me, I get tired, I get silly. When I get silly, I have a hard time focusing. Is that right?

It's true.

You've learned me over time, hadn't you?

But we had a great day in New York yesterday.

A wonderful day.

Went to NASDAQ.

You get to sign with—

I got to sign partnership ownership program with my company, with Global Financial Impact, which is huge. Huge, huge, huge. 'Cause when they go public on the NASDAQ, then wow.

Everybody who signs the partnership, it will affect us in a very positive way. So we appreciate the leadership, loud and— and we got to kind of get on the inside of the NASDAQ world. We had people there at the NASDAQ, the stock exchange, training stuff. And I said to Ashley, I said, "My head was just about hurting when I left." Just all the information.

You know, you just start doing life.

Yeah, that whole world of finance is just amazing to me.

You do what you do, you get in your job, you get your head down, and you're married and you got kids.

And you look up one day and it's 50 and you hadn't done anything to prepare for when you're not gonna work no more. And so that's what they were trying to do, talk to us about how everything works, the ins and outs, and helping people. It's very enlightening. Although I'm not in the business of you, I want to be there to support you. That was a big day. But it did put us behind the 8-ball a little bit and we got started a little late. And now we are here and we have an interesting topic, how to argue. We don't argue a lot, do we?

Mm-mm. And I think the whole premise of this is there will be times in relationships, marriage, friendships—

You stole my thunder, but go ahead.

Where, you know, you always have contention and you have disagreements.

That's the key.

But the thing is, not to argue.

Yep. The key is— How do you have those disagreements? To disagree without arguing. Yeah. I've— number one, you married a guy that'll talk about anything. Sometimes talk more than you want to, 'cause I wanna work it out. But you also married a guy that's very hard to argue with. I'm not an arguer. I'm not an arguer. I don't like raising voices. I don't like screaming. You've got a always frail type of— Probably because I'm tired and I got a light in my face. That's what it is. But I'm not a brawler. Some people, boy, they live—

To fight.

Yeah, man. When they feel one coming, their juices get to flowing. I feel one coming, I wanna leave the room. Because I love to sit down and work out a difference. There is no way around differences. There is no way. You know, if it was even legal for you to marry your twin, you would still have differences. There's no way to bring two people together and there's not points of contention, there's not differences. And so I wanna talk a little bit about that. Before we do, I've got things that I talk about, some of it in the marriage conference, some of it, not we'll just talk about it here. I wanna talk about things people need to do, how to disagree. There is a how-to.

How-to.

Without it, there's a how-to, and then there, what is the purpose of a disagreement? What are you trying to achieve? I wanna talk about that. I don't wanna steal the thunder yet. Let's just be vulnerable a minute. What are some of the things that probably have caused the most disagreements in our marriage? I know what I got in my mind.

Oh, boy.

But I would like to hear what you got to say. What do you think?

What causes the most contention?

See, most people, it's money. I don't remember us.

We didn't argue about money because we didn't have no money.

Yeah, I don't remember.

There wasn't nothing to argue about.

I don't remember.

We did argue one time, Ron. You remember when it was our first year married? We, this is, I mean, so poor, had nothing, nothing, just believing God to eat. And it was Christmas.

You charged stuff.

Yes, I went and got a JCPenney credit card at the Knoxville Mall. And I had, I think it was like 20-something people to buy for. And I allotted $15, that was it. That was all I was gonna spend on each person. And it came out to be about $300. And I came home, I was so excited. I got everybody's presents there and I wrapped them. Put 'em under the tree and you came in and had a panic attack on me. Freaked me out.

It freaked me out.

And told me to unwrap every one of 'em and take 'em back.

Now, let me tell you, let me give everybody context.

And yes, we argued.

Let me tell you context for that. That is where we were financially. When I found out she charged $300, that was immediately so overwhelming to me it would be like a hill I would never get past. That's where we were.

[Speaker:CECE] We didn't have any money.

[Speaker:JERRY] Yeah, that's where we were financially. I didn't wanna charge anything. We owed more in her school loans than we made in a year. And, you know, we were— that already was like insurmountable to me. And then it wasn't that it was Christmas presents for people, it wasn't even— it was that it was charged. And here again, I felt like, drowning over that. We bought a chair. We didn't have a chair, we had a couch. And I remember we bought a chair from, I don't even know if they're in business anymore, was it Haverty's? It was $299. And we financed it. We financed it for $17 a month.

Financed a $299 chair. We financed it.

I thought it was $299. Anyway, I remember the payment was $17 a month. And for those of you who say, you know, everybody says they were poor when they started out, I mean to tell you, we didn't have anything. And we lived off missionary money, which is what people spent. But I just don't remember, I hear people, I heard terrible things like, you know, one of the highest things that creates the divorce rate is money issues. And I will be honest, we've had many issues, a lot of them are well chronicled, but I don't remember money being one, even when we began to walk in the blessing of God and things eased up and got better. We just—

we didn't really fight over that.

Yeah, we knew what we needed to do. We kind of agreed on, you know, what we spend, what we save, what our bills are gonna— we just never have had brawls over that. I'll tell you one thing that did cause a lot of contention between me and you, from dating, especially, and on through, I'd say, about our mid-30s was the worst, was in-laws. Was in-laws.

One set.

Yeah, not my mom and dad, but your mom and dad crossed a lot of boundaries into our life. They— it's well chronicled. They didn't like me. They didn't like me as your choice. And that caused a lot of problems. And it caused a lot of problems between me and you. And I do remember arguing about that. I remember us having differences in how the kids were going to be disciplined.

Yeah, we did.

You were raised stringent, so you wanted to go light.

I got my butt beat, so I didn't wanna beat them back.

I was raised, I mean, I was disciplined, but I was raised with a lot of trust.

You didn't get any spankings, Ron.

And I, whoa. Ron. What in the world are you talking about? My dad beat me all the time.

Ron. But you were perfect. Your mama said you were perfect.

I don't care what mama said. I got my belt. So you didn't get, oh, okay. I got my daddy's belt. And, But they were, you know, they gave me a long leash. And because I know what I did with that leash, I was not trusting and I wanted to come down with the hammer on the kids. And so we had some very intense disagreements with how the kids were gonna be handled, what their boundaries were gonna be, how they were gonna be disciplined. And I remember that. Can you remember any other areas?

[Speaker:CECE] I do. I can remember some, but I'll talk about it when I come back from talking about our amazing sponsors. Ron, you've lost so much weight, number one. You really have. You've lost almost 20 pounds.

I wonder if people can— I wonder if they can tell.

Well, I think so.

Can you tell in my clothes?

Yes, they can say something. And I've lost some weight. So, you know, we've tried our fair share of, you know, this is the one kind of diet, super strict.

I'm not a dieter.

Hard to keep up with. And honestly, they never really last. But quick fixes just were not sustainable for us. And that's why we love Green Chef. Where fad diets fail, they deliver real food and recipes that make healthy eating just feel easy. And it's actually lasting. So, it's been one of our favorites. It feels effortless, you know, like we're eating well without overthinking it. With Green Chef, every week, you will get over 40 recipes made with organic produce, responsibly sourced proteins, and nothing that you cannot pronounce on that label. So, meals come pre-portioned and ready in minutes. And if you want guidance, Beyond the Plate. They include free, unlimited, one-on-one nutrition coaching that helps you stay on track. I feel better, I'm eating real meals, and it actually fits into my life without being very overwhelming. So head on over to greenchef.com/50ronandhope and use code 50RONANDHOPE to get 50% off your first month, then 20% off for 2 months. That's code 50RONANDHOPE at greenchef.com/50ronandhope. Ron and Hope. So one more thing. One thing you said. Hope, can you think of something that we argued about? Probably sex.

Well, it was that time where you got aggravated and you said, "Well, how many times a week do you think we should have it?" And I said, "13." Oh my God.

Member? 13 times a week?

Yes.

Yeah, that's probably—

I've been telling you about all them, the urologists are talking about, the more sex you have, you decrease your chances of prostate problems. I'm trying to, I'm trying for you to help me feel good. Trying to be healthy. Yes, I wanna be healthy.

You wanna be healthy.

I just wanna be healthy. I need you to help me be healthy.

That's the goal.

I need you to help me in my health walk.

Okay. So yes, we have had many arguments in the past over the amount of times—

In different seasons.

—that you have wanted to have sex versus me tired. Well, no, it's got to be you too. You too.

Times when I'm tired and you're not sensitive to that. Times when I'm worn out and I'm like, you know, middle of the night stuff and I'm trying to rest. And I force you.

I force you.

I never liked middle of the night stuff. And I'm trying to rest.

My God.

The whole thing is, there's a myriad of differences and places of contention down to, "Why did you forget to take out the trash and why is the car empty?" There's a million ways to get into it.

Or how you talk to one another.

The tone. You be short, you know, there's not a— Number one, I don't believe a man and a woman in a marriage covenant should ever argue. Arguing, the connotation, not the definition, but the insinuation of arguing is winning. I need to come out of this— Being right. Being right. You need to come out of it being right. So we escalate the intensity, we escalate the volume, we escalate the tone, and we escalate the sharpness of the words until one outdoes the other and one backs down. To me, that is what arguing insinuates.

[Speaker:GINGER] Well, the root of an argument is usually anger. And that is directly contrary. You know, you can be angry, But when it goes into sinning, he tells us not to do that.

[Speaker:DR_YOUNG] Well, one of the— you know, the fruit of the Spirit is self-control. It's not control as in the Jezebel spirit. It's never to control others. That's— actually, I can prove to you biblically, that's evil. Nowhere has God told me to control other people, but he has very much told me that the fruit of the Spirit is self-control. What he's speaking about there is managing emotions, managing your desires, and not letting them rule you. Over you. An argument is usually when emotions have run amok. The fact is, we're built to feel emotions. I'm built to feel sadness and happiness and anger and pain and joy. I am built and wired to feel satisfaction, to feel pleasure. I'm built, and I'm so glad God lets me feel. I want to feel. You have to master those. You can't let them have you. [Speaker:CECE] Have to control them. [Speaker:JOYCE] Yeah, you have to control them. You can't let them be your master because there's sometimes you move with the feeling because it is a positive feeling. But there are other times you don't let the feeling make a decision or drive the decision because it is a very negative feeling that will drive a very negative choice that will bring a very negative outcome. And so the whole thing about— You know, be angry and do not sin. Feel the emotion, experience the emotion, but don't let the emotion control you. I think arguing is when emotions have usually got out of control. They've gotten out of the boundaries, and now we can say anything. I'm gonna try to cut you harder than you cut me. I'm gonna try to bring something out of the past to help me win a present fight. You know, I feel like I'm losing, I gotta be harsher. In other words, I want you bleeding more than I'm bleeding when this is over with. Two people in a covenant of love, that really has no place. You have to have differences.

[Speaker:JOYCE] But there are some people who live with people who are not very lovable. You and I have it pretty easy. We're not crazy people in the house. We're not loud and yelling and throwing.

[Speaker:CECE] But they don't hurt you.

[Speaker:JOYCE] No. But there are other people who live with people who, I mean, I don't know how they live with them. And I would be so angry. Too, if I lived with some people like that we know, that we deal with, I mean, just putting up with it, I just— it takes every bit of God you can pull off.

[Speaker:JOYCE] Yeah, usually there's something unhealed in a person that has no control over, you know, how angry they get and how fast they get angry and how short their fuse is. I don't wanna hear, "I just got a bad temper." I don't wanna hear that. That's a cop-out. The fact is, all of us— [Speaker:CECE] It's an unhealed place. [Speaker:JOYCE] All of us have stuff and you have to get healed. You have to master those things. I can't blow you out and say, "Well, you just need to understand I got a bad temper." No, no, it's wrong. And so, I think one of the things we have going for us, the love of God has been such a part of our life and our journey, even from early on, that even if you've hurt me, I don't wanna hurt you. Even if I've hurt you, I don't think you necessarily want to hurt me back. [Speaker:CECE] Right, right. So here's what we need to understand. I'm not gonna use the word argue, a disagreement. The goal is not to win. The goal is resolution. [Speaker:CECE] Yeah, that's good. [Speaker:JOYCE] Resolve it. If that's not— they're like, "Oh, I thought you was gonna blow me away with something." It's actually very profound. If you understand going into it, my goal is not to beat Hope. "Well, I put her in her place, didn't I?" The goal is resolve the issue.

Yeah. If there's a problem, find a solution.

So here is how to speak on disagreements. If you follow these easy steps, it'll revolutionize your communication. Number 1, so simple, but so hard to do. Stick to the issue.

That is hard to do. 'Cause when you're angry—

Woo! It goes personal. It becomes a personal attack. It becomes name-calling. It becomes—

And the tone comes in. Yeah.

And it becomes, you know, "Well, every time you do that, you're just like your mama." You know, whenever it goes there, immediately logic is off the table. Resolution is off the table, and the arguing is going to ensue. And now it's just, I gotta throw one at you harder than you threw me. Stick to the issue. Stick to the issue. What is the issue at hand? The issue is, you know, Johnny got sent to the principal's office, okay? You don't need to look at me and say, well, that must come from your daddy. That don't need to happen. We've got— but see, you see how easily it goes there? It just bam, 'cause we're frustrated. We're aggravated. You had to leave work, you had to go pick him up at school. He's facing getting expelled. So immediately, you wanna find something to blame, somebody to throw under the bus because it has rewired your day. And the fact is, Johnny, what's going on? Okay, I got called here at 1 o'clock to pick you up from school early. You're in the principal's office. Come over here, we need to talk. What's going on? And then you and I need to get together and talk and say, "This is Johnny's issue. How are we gonna resolve this issue?" You know, he's getting bullied. "Well, I told you not to send him to that school." See, that goes back to arguing. Stick to the issue. No personal attacks, no name-calling. Number 2, manage the emotion. I think that's probably one of the hardest. Manage the emotion that comes with the difference.

Because that all goes back to self-control. So, if you're not full of the fruit— fruit of the Spirit is not evident in your life, you don't have a true relationship with the Lord, then you're not gonna manage your emotions. It's really just a mirror, actually, as to what is going on inside your heart, or what is not going on.

I believe a strong person is a person that can, when they feel emotional, they know how to use restraint. There's gotta be restraint. I can't let everything I feel be unleashed on people I love. [Speaker:CECE] Mm. Does that make sense? I need to say it again? I can't let everything I feel be unleashed on people I love. So even with the child, I have to use restraint. When you and I are talking about how to fix it, I've got to somehow use restraint. I've got to use restraint. And there are pointed things that can be said, but it needs to be said in love and conversationally. It does not need to be said in the heat of passion. In the heat of anger. A third thing people need to do is if the emotions are not managed, separate and defuse it. [Speaker:CECE] Yeah, calm down. [Speaker:JOYCE] Folks, I know this is not brain science. Listen, there is no logic when high emotions are involved. Zero logic. Women tend to be more emotional. Men tend to be more logical, but the fact is everybody has the ability in a disagreement to get emotional. When emotions get running, you can just take logic and resolution and take it off the table, 'cause it's not gonna happen. And what I've always told my children, what I've always done with me and you, you know what? Let's take a minute. Let me go outside. I always tell you, let me process it. I gotta— no, no, no, I tell you, let me flush it. Flush it. Give me a minute, I gotta flush it. What I mean by that, I still wanna talk to you about what happened, but I want to have time I want to bring it down. I wanna bring the temperature down inside of me. So that's one thing I've always told Hope, not really with her, but sometimes dealing with people. They're like, "Well, did you hear what that so-and-so did at church?" And I mean, man, sometimes it may be cruel, it may be carnal, it maybe really tick me off. Or, you know, "Ron, we need to deal with this." And I'm like, "I gotta take, I need a day to flush this." I don't need to talk to them right now. So you've got to determine after the managing your emotions, are you fit to talk? Because it's gotta be worked out.

Yeah, what if you got a spouse who just pushes you and pushes you and pushes you and you know you are about to explode, but they just keep pushing and won't give you the time to flush it.

You have to find a way to distance yourself from that. You can't just blow back 'cause it don't work.

I posted something the other day. I wanted to find it. It was about children. And I thought it was so powerful. I might need— I got my glasses. Listen to this. It says, "Parenting habits that give Satan a foothold in your home. Parenting from anger instead of wisdom. Snapping, harsh tones, reacting, raised voices, yelling, and threatening. Satan loves this because it turns an opportunity for discipline into a moment of damage. 2, treating discipline like punishment. Kids who are often punished stop hearing correction and start believing lies about their identity. Satan loves a parent without a tame tongue. Number 3, prioritizing behavior over shepherding their heart. Stop hitting, say you're sorry, don't talk like that. You can raise a well-behaved child who is anxious, disconnected, and hiding, which the enemy loves. Number 4, letting your mood decide how you will correct, AKA being inconsistent. Some days it's calm correction, other days it's snapping. Satan loves this because inconsistency creates confusion in a child's heart. I know this can be hard to hear, and this isn't about shame. We've all messed up. This is about becoming more intentional aware and wise as we discipline our children. Isn't that good? And that can apply, I mean, not just in raising our kids, but that's giving the enemy a foothold in our kids, in our home, in our relationships.

Separate to defuse the emotion if you need to for a time. I call it, "Let me flush it." And the last thing is a conversation that brings resolve. If the issue is at hand, after you've gone through that whole list, you're still with the issue. It never should turn into a personal attack.

[Speaker:CECE] But there's always usually somebody, whether it's a friendship, or a marriage, or a dating, the conflict sometime can be resolving the conflict. It's not even the issue at hand, it is, getting to the how to resolve it, because there's always sometimes in relationships that one person who is always going to be right, who refuses to bow a knee to, "You know what? I was wrong. You know what? Your way's better." You know, there's— it seems like that sometimes is the contention. It's that person who is just so hard-hearted and will not bow a knee.

[Speaker:JOYCE] We may need to do a podcast then on the person that is hard to love. Hard to deal with. Because what I'm talking about is when both people are reasonable. You know, people— [Speaker:GINGER] Oh, that's unusual. [Speaker:JOYCE] When both people are reasonable and— well, reasonable people can get tore up in an argument. But I'm talking about in a house, two people love each other and they do want the best possible outcome. You know, I really wasn't addressing that to this person that is very difficult to manage and could blow their top at any time. That's crazy. That's really you dealing with heart issues then. That's kind of a different podcast. This is just strictly, we have a healthy relationship, and in this healthy relationship, we have a healthy disagreement right here. And these are the things that you've got to go through. So stick to the issue. That's the main thing.

Number one, stick to the issue.

Stick to the issue. And number two, you've got to manage your emotions. Manage your emotions. Number three, if the emotions aren't managed, you've got to separate to diffuse it and flush it. And then fourth, the conversation should go toward resolution. It cannot go toward personal attack, personal feelings, past battles, history. Love keeps no record of wrongs. You can't do that. A lot of times, if somebody feels like they're losing, they'll go grab something to help them out, bring it back into the—

nope. To state their case.

Yeah, we want to take this and we want to resolve this matter. So we're arguing over whether or not we should have credit cards or not, okay? Bring everything to the table, and let's head toward resolution. That is a calm way to go through healthy resolution of disagreements. Now, if we wanna come back and if you're living with someone that is out of control and you have no idea what response you're gonna get if you bring up something, that's a different story. That's a different story.

Very difficult to live with.

That one almost needs a mediator to maybe help get inside of that and find out what's really operating and going on. Because I think two healthy people should be able to talk it out.

Yeah. Not scream it out. Mm-mm.

Talk it out. Talk it out. And we still love each other after it's over with. Even the hardest ones, you know. And there's been a lot of times after we get through talking, I'm like, "Come here, babe." I always tell you, "Come sit in daddy's lap." Daddy. Come sit in Daddy's lap. I love when she's mad at me and I say, "Come here, sit in Daddy's lap." It's hard to be mad at me 'cause I make you laugh. You do. You're trying to be mad at me and I make you laugh.

Sometime, I won't come sit in your lap, though.

8 out of 10, I get you in my lap. Yeah, sit. 8 out of 10, I do. We've already been on here a half hour.

I know it. It's been great. Good information.

Take that information and let it help you out, guys. And really, when you employ that, this is the way me and Hope do it. Right here. We don't sit here and, "Okay, we're in stage 2 now." We don't do that. But we've just learned over time. And we go into this much deeper in our marriage conference, in the one of love and forgiveness. I have a point in there about how to argue correctly. And I talk about this more in depth. But for right now, maybe we can throw that at you and it'll help you bring resolve to a disagreement.

Absolutely. So until next time, it's Ron and Hope Unfiltered, real, raw, and relevant. See you soon.