How to Really Be Free with special guest Denise Boggs

Ron, what are you doing?

Tell them what this show is.

This is Ron and Hope Unfiltered. Real raw and relevant. And I had to bring some M and Ms. On this one because of the. In honor of the guests that we have. Normally I would have chocolate chip cookies right here because when we talk about hard topics, we gotta eat.

We do.

Yeah.

Was that one of her rules?

Yeah. When you gotta dig into painful things and hard things, you need a little break. You need a reward.

I think you got special treatment.

I think I did.

While you were there. I don't remember the chocolate chip cookie.

You don't?

I remember going outside and looking at horses. I didn't know what else to do. I just went and looked at horses. Tell them who we are.

We're real raw and relevant. This is Ron and Hope Unfiltered. I'm glad that you guys are joining us. Whether it's your first time or, you know, you're just like family now, you know that. We just tell it like it is and we tell the truth and we shame the devil and we talk about hard topics. And today we're going to do that. We have one of the. The most wonderful people in the world on our show today, and it's Pastor Denise Boggs. She's from Hidden Night, North Carolina. But goodness gracious, you can't find Hidden.

Night in North Carolina. Cause it's hidden.

It's hidden.

That's right. And the Lord hid it so that you could go there and hide when you need to.

It's the secret place of the most high.

Secret place. That's right.

But we are so glad to have her because Pastor Lee and Denise have been in our life for a long time, but they've been there at critical times in our life, some of the toughest times in our life. And I even went to live at their place, at their lodge, at their house where they live.

It was about six months you lived solely there, wasn't it? If I remember right. And then after that, it was like two months, two weeks back and forth. And so you, you know the ministry there, you know the people intimately. And they made a great investment in our life. Yeah, they made a great investment.

They helped save our life. I. I mean, literally, they will forever be a part of our story as to why we are here today. Married and in love.

We had a time where things started crumbling, things started falling apart around us. And like everybody, we're not exempted because we have Reverend in front of our name. Like everybody. You never thought you'd End up there. You say, how in the world did I get here? How is this happening? And you're not prepared to rebuild because. No, nobody gets married and says, man, I want my marriage to end in tragedy. Nobody does that. You know, but the fact is, there's little, unseen, hidden things that we bring into our relationship, if not properly processed and dealt with and brought to a place at the cross. Yeah. It just continues to grow until what could have been a little thing at one season in life becomes your world falling apart in another one. And.

And we're broken. We're all broken.

Right.

We are all broken people. And then you end up marrying another broken person, and everything starts being triggered. And then, you know, you just say, why am I feeling this way? Why do I say these things? What's going on in my life? Oh, I just think I'll pack up and leave. I don't like you. And we never deal with pain and our issues and what's really going on. And then we just go and do it again and again and again.

Because what's not healed is repeated.

Yeah.

And so the long and short of it is I would like. I know this would usually be your thing. I'm going to let you and Pastor Denise probably go back and forth since y' all have really such camaraderie, because even since then, y' all have spent many, many hours together, ministered together. But I just wanted to. To talk about the broad scope and bring her in and just let her speak to it, of people struggling with understanding that period. May I speak to that, Denise? Give me about two or three minutes. Yes, Pastor Denise.

Yes, please.

I think there are two extremes. Number one, there's people that don't know anything's wrong. So they don't know where. They don't know that they need to go anywhere and don't know there's anywhere to go.

I've talked about that so many times.

They just don't know, you know, because I was in that group.

Yeah.

I was in that group. I thought, you know, seeing what my other friends were being raised in, I thought my home was angelic.

Yeah.

You know, and. But didn't understand the fact until in my 40s, I didn't understand the fact. All the deficiencies that were in my home, great people did the best they could, but deficiencies in my home and how they had affected me.

That was your normal.

Yeah. To me. To me, I was grateful. Yeah. I was grateful and blessed. And seeing all what my other friends lived then, I'm like, man, God's, been good to me. I got it made. And then you got the other extreme, the extreme where anything that deals with the soulish realm is unnecessary because you should be able to take care of it at an altar. And I was also a part of that extreme where there was no mind, no thought given to anything. Pastoral care, counseling, ministries of deliverance and healing, those things. In fact, not only were they not hurt, they were not even concepts in my mind. I remember the first time somebody came up church and said something about, I need inner healing. I didn't want to act dumb, but I didn't know what they were talking about.

Or we thought, you know, those are the crazy people.

Yeah.

You know, those are the ones that have mental illness.

Mental illness or something like that. So everything is not spiritual. There are many things that are in the soulish realm and in any part of yourself, physically, soulishly, mentally, emotionally, that you neglect. It's not going to go anywhere good.

That's right.

And so Pastor Denise is someone who has basically given her life to helping walk people through these journeys and bring them to a place of wholeness. And so I'm going to get out of the way and just let y' all have your discussion. And I may interject here and there.

Yeah, Pastor Denise, just give. Give the people listening an overview of what you do.

Well, I just give people, first of all, a safe place that they can share just what they're going through. Because many times people have held their pain in for so long because their fear is, if I even talk about what I went through, then I'm going to be judged, I'm going to be criticized, and I know somebody's going to turn it back on me, because that's how they grew up. They couldn't talk to mom and dad because if so, if mom did not want to hear how you're feeling today, and she'd say, oh, just go tell your dad. And Dad's too busy and he doesn't have time to hear. Then what you do is you just learn that I just got to push all my pain down, and I'm not never going to talk about it. And we call that the don't talk family. They just don't talk about painful things that happen. And, you know, every family experiences painful things that need to be talked about. The children need to be able to say how something affected them when they had to move abruptly, or mom, maybe mom was breaking down, and how did that affect you? So I just. First of all, the first thing is a person has to Feel safe in order to share how they feel.

And I think it's so cool how you do it. You do it in a home. You invite people into your office. No, it's not an office, because I remember you. You've said to so many people, you said, we're hurt in a home.

Yes.

What better place to heal than in a home? And listen, if you don't like good southern cooking, you sure don't need to go to this home. Because you will eat fried chicken, macaroni pie, and in the mornings you will have homemade jam to go on your homemade biscuits.

You have people going for wrong reasons. They're gonna be going for the wrong.

I know. I wanna go back just for that reason. I know, but it is such a special place because you do. You just kind of walk in and arms are put around you, you know, like you are welcomed at grandma's house. And you just go in and got these beautiful rooms. And I just, you know, I just remember laying in those beds with those quilts and just processing it. Such a safe place to go where you feel like you are being heard, because you are. Because you're sitting there listening eye to eye. And just all the kids and children and teenagers now that are adults who've never had anybody to just look at them in the face and take the time to come into their world and ask them how they feel.

Exactly, exactly. They haven't had that, that. That person to just say, I want to know. I want to feel it myself so I can help you. And so, you know, when someone feels understood, they feel listened to, they feel understood, then it opens their heart and they can begin to share the things that they have held onto for so long and just didn't know what to do with all of this, all these painful things.

And you don't know what you don't know.

You really don't. You don't know.

I remember when I came there and I remember, and I remember Ron, like, you need to go somewhere, something is wrong with you. And, you know, I knew something was Pastor Denise, but I didn't even know how to articulate exactly because I had been shut down so long that wasn't allowed to say even how I felt, how I thought, what I wanted, what I liked, what I didn't like. So I didn't even know where to start.

No, it is. And that's the way most people are. Where would I start? And do they even have time to listen? Because it'll take a long time for me to tell where what I'M struggling with and nobody has time to listen to all that. So then again, you talk yourself right out of it and you just shut down and say, well, I can't, I can't, I can't talk to anybody. But you know what? When, when you've been hurt in your family and it can be something so simple. But if you're hurt and your family should be where you receive and feel the love of God, always feel love. Feel like you can open your heart. So if you didn't feel that, if you knew mama get upset or dad will get upset and you close down, then that's why coming to this retreat is a time where you come to a home and you feel the warmth, the love, the love of God is flowing and you feel welcomed, you feel loved, and you feel safe. And that starts opening your heart immediately. We have people that walk in the door and Pastor Ron and Hope and they start crying. Yeah, they see, never felt this before. This is what home is supposed to feel like. And we say, yeah, this is our home. We, you know, and we, our children, grandchildren. This is a real home. And we're welcoming you in to come and stay a few days and eat some of that good food. But we're gonna sit in the parlor and we're gonna talk. We're gonna talk about things and we're.

Gonna eat chocolate chip cookies and we're gonna drink coffee and dip it in milk. It's gonna be so good. Oh, well, we're just going to take a second right here to talk about one of our sponsors. Look at you, Ron Carpenter. You know, we all live busy lives and who doesn't want to make their life flow quicker and better and easier? And the good thing there is a new app called Chime Listen, you can get your paycheck. Did I say paycheck? Your money, your money. Who doesn't want their money up to two days early? With direct deposit, it makes you feel, it makes you feel more secure. You know when your bills have got to be paid and your money is going to be there and it's going to be there early.

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Let me speak. That you can underscore. Just sitting here, listening to you guys talk, you can underscore the value of the place. You got to have the people who have the anointing and the skill set, the training, the experience. But the place, it is the home. It is the house, but it's the place. It is secluded, it's isolated. There's not traffic, there's not busyness, there's not distractions.

Barely a cell signal.

Yeah. And that's all intentional because very. I'm not going to say it's impossible. It's very difficult to get healed in your familiar environment.

It is absolutely very difficult.

I think when we were trying to put things back together, as I look back on it, you know, we're getting some distance on it now. It's been a few years in our rearview mirror. I think mine took longer because I stayed in my environment. I stayed with the, you know, keep the home fires going, keep the grind going, and so I stayed in my environment. But yours was at warp speed because you got to get away from the normal atmosphere and get another one. And, you know, when Naaman the leper was sick, there was a little maid in the house, an Israelite girl, and she said, there's a prophet Israel that can heal you. Can't heal you here. You're going to have to go to another place, and you're going to have to get out of your environment. You're a military leader around here. Everybody has expectations. If you leave here and go there, there's somebody there that can heal you. And I think that's what Living Waters is. It's the package.

It is.

It's the place where I can go.

Yes, yes. Just a little piece of heaven. Pastor Denise, let's talk about how we even get to this place, okay? Our life has crumbled. We hear about Living Waters, divorces, abuse.

Molestation, all of these things.

All this happens in our life. So why couldn't, you know, why did we end up here? And I really believe it's so important that we talk about the difference between conditional and unconditional love, because that's the root of it all, you know, that's. We have to perform in our house. We have to make all A's, we have to make all B's. Or if we don't, we just gonna get a spanking or a whooping or whatever it is. Or as my mom used to say, give me your keys. We laugh now about it. We say, she had my keys. More than I did. Cause I stayed in trouble. So, you know, we just feel so less than going into adulthood because we didn't hit the mark. We weren't good enough. We weren't, you know, smart enough. We weren't whatever. We didn't get the acceptance. We need to talk about that.

That's right. Well, and, you know, there are two types of love. And conditional love is you may get a little bit of love, but you've got to do all of these things just right. And so there's conditions, there's requirements that are put on you as a child that you've got to make grades, you've got to keep your room clean, you got to make sure you brush your hair and your teeth. I mean, all these requirements. But are they teaching and training? Yes. But when they pull back and withhold love, if you did not make the straight A. And then what it does to a child is they begin to think in their mind, I'm not good enough. I'm not being loved because I did not make a straight A. No. Maybe it's dyslexia, maybe it's something like that. But yet the lie they believe is, I am not loved because I can't meet up to this standard that mom has set. And, you know, the thing that can happen is if the parents are educators or if the parents have high degrees, then they put a requirement on the children that they have to reach a high degree in order to keep the image of the family up. And so all of these things that create conditions in the home. See, conditional love is going to create performance in children. Performance orientation. They just learn, if I can figure out one thing I can do in order to be good enough, that mom will be proud of me or Daddy's proud of me, then maybe I'll be loved. And so a child can start performing early then in teenage years, if they can, you know, try out for sports and do better and do better. And so it puts them in this vicious drivenness to try to perform for love. The thing is, though, God's love is unconditional. His love is a river that flows and it doesn't stop. It is a continual flow of his love. We do not have to work to earn his love to be good enough for him to love us.

No.

And so. But see, conditional love programs, people that they think that's the way God is. So many chapters in my Bible, you know, and those little envelopes when I used to go to the church, you know, and they have these little omelets, you have to check, check, check, check. Did I give my money? Did I go visit? Did I invite somebody to church? So even that sets it up that it's performance. You've got to just do all these things for. In order to be good enough for God to love you. So you walk around and even. Or sit in those pews and you still feel that same feeling of, I'm not good enough. I cannot be blessed like Pastor Ron and Hope are blessed because God doesn't love me, because look at how I've messed up. So conditional love in the home sets you up into adulthood to live a life of performance.

And we take that into our relationships. Yes, you do take it right from our mom and daddy's house into the one we're dating into the one we're marrying. And nothing is ever real and nothing is ever fulfilled.

You're always performing. Everybody's always performing. And so you don't have a tonic relationship.

Performance depletes you. Yes, performance depletes you. And there's some people, you know, I'm so tired. I'm so burned out. And don't know what the culprit is because their schedule hasn't changed in 10 years. But they why am I so depleted? It's the performance orientation. Keeps you on a treadmill. The word likened it to the law, the curse of the law. I always tell people, I say, what's the curse of the law? The curse of the law is nobody can keep it.

Exactly.

And they had to perform. And it keeps you on the treadmill of trying to appease a God. And every culture has a God that they try to appease or try to satisfy. But we got to understand, to Christians, Jesus satisfied God.

Yes, he did.

Exactly.

And I'm in him. I'm in him. So that changes everything. And that's where we are different than everybody.

That's right. Yes.

So how do we. How do we break this in our family? Go ahead.

I got a quick. Can I ask mine first?

Yeah.

If a person walked into living waters for a retreat, what should they expect? Let me interject. Let me tell you where this is coming from. We got somebody from our church that's getting ready to come. And I said, really? That's good. He said, yes, I'm scared to death. He said, I'm scared. And I just thought when we got here today, I'm like, I'm just going to let her give a them a preface of this is what you could expect if you come to one of our treats. Now. Go ahead.

Yeah. And you'll and when you walk in the door, you're going to smell food cooking because we're getting ready for dinner. So you're going to smell the good smells. You're going to see smiling faces. You're going to feel, you know, welcomed and. But the thing is, you know, is that you are going to feel safe even when we have our first session that first night, that you're gonna feel safe even to share how, you know, how are you. You know, when you came. How are you feeling tonight? Well, I'm a little scared.

Okay, that's okay, because other people are being honest.

People just start opening up. To begin with, honesty's the whole key.

It is because honesty lets you. You hear somebody else being honest, then that lets you be honest, and then that lets them be honest.

Transparency, dreams.

Transparency.

Yeah, it just keeps coming down. But that didn't happen when you were growing up, because, remember, you can't be honest. And what happens in this family stays in this family. So that teaches you to. We don't talk, we don't tell, we don't say.

That's right. You close your mouth and you close down and shut down and you. And you walk. You walk like you got. Shame on you. I know, I know everybody's thinking something bad about me. So, you know, it's just. It is so sad to see how this has affected people. Because what it does is when the very one that you are looking to. To love you as a child, mom or dad, either one, when their actions or their words do not communicate love, you begin to close your heart. And when you start closing your heart because it hurts when mama's yelling, you close your heart. But what it does is because you close up, it begins to create a little hard place in your heart. And we know now Matthew 13 says stones can form in the heart, and you can. And it's where your heart is not open to receive love. And that starts as children and. And it can. And then you start recognizing it in the teenage years, because now stone after stone has formed and there's a wall around the heart, and they don't want to hear anything you've got to say, mom and dad, because they have. They've closed their heart. They can't. They don't hear you. And so when, by the time someone comes to a Healing the Heart retreat, we start, you know, just helping them to see and identify that first time that they were yelled at, how they felt and did they take on a stone? It's like, yeah, I did.

I.

A stone Formed in my heart. I remember because I remember when my dad left when I was nine years old, I remember. I remember just saying, I don't want to feel. I don't even want to see my daddy anymore. I could remember feeling so angry at him and just closing my heart to him. And I had no idea that I was creating stones in my heart. That. And every time I would think about him, I'd feel angry and I'd feel hurt, but I didn't know what to do with all that pain.

And then you don't feel it all. You'll eventually stop feeling.

You do, because your heart is so hard. You're numb. You don't feel anything.

Yeah.

You can do anything and you don't feel it.

So that's how people will say, how are they living like that? How are they so far in sin and still go to church? They're numb.

They're numb. And you know what? When I see so far in sin, I know how much pain they have.

Yes.

And that's where I go to. I don't say, why'd you do what you're doing? I don't go there. I don't go there. I said, I want to talk about when you were growing up.

Yes.

Did somebody hurt you? Yeah, they hurt. You know, they'll start telling me. But see, I'm going to find the.

Pain so good, Pastor Denise. So good.

And so I don't even, you know, what's happening yesterday or last week or month. I'm not even interested in that symptoms. Exactly. I'm going to get to the root of it and what caused their heart to close up and they become so numb.

So good.

That's what we do.

The Bible says that a wounded. Or depending on the translation, I just got to eat.

I know. Me too.

A wounded or offended heart is harder to win than a walled city.

Yeah. Yes, it is.

It is harder to win back than a walled city. So you have to pay attention to it. Because if you don't. If you don't pay attention to it, it's almost like a sentence of existing without life.

Yes, it is.

I've been there.

You just get up every day, but there's no Zoe life to it that you get to enjoy and live abundantly.

But I am a living testimony for those of you who are. Listen. I lived that life where my heart was so closed off that I was living in sin and doing things that people would look at me to question, how could she be? And I would even ask myself, how could I? And I had no idea that it was just hurt after hurt and pain and pain and pain and pain. And I was looking for the living water that only Jesus can feel. Only Jesus satisfies the longings of our soul. And we go to all these different places trying to get a little relief, and only Jesus can do it. And he promises us, Pastor Denise, that he will take that heart of stone and he will give us a heart of flesh.

Yes. Brand new heart we can feel. That's what a heart of flesh is.

Yes. Yes.

You think of 3,000, 626. It's a heart that can feel. And. And so because you can't feel even the love of God when you. You can't.

And so I remember time standing in church and. And I knew it was a good service. You know, I saw other people crying and. And I want. And I'd raise my hands, but it was. They felt like bricks. And I wanted to cry, but nothing would come. And I know there's people listening to us right now who have been in church, who have been in service after service, after service, after service, and they look around at everybody else and they wish that they had the joy that they had, the experience other people are having. Pastor Denise encouraged them that it's not too late.

No, it is not too late. Because you know what? If you would just say, yes, Lord, I want this healing in my heart. I know my heart's closed and hardened. I need the healing. And if you will ask, he will, because he says he will heal the brokenhearted. Jesus said I came. Luke 14 said, I came for you. I came for you to heal your broken heart and set the captive freeze, to set you free from that pain. He will set you free, but you do. You need to find a safe place where you can start working to release it. Okay? Because even just sitting on your own by yourself, what happens is you just get shut down because it seems overwhelming. And so you need somebody to help shepherd your soul, to help walk alongside you to be able to release it. Okay? And as you release it, you'll feel immediately with the first. The first stone that you release, the first pain that you, You, You. You recognize and you release, you will start feeling that release. And so I just want to encourage. It doesn't matter how old you are. We have people coming to our retreats that are great grandmas. I mean, we. We have young and old coming, and. And it's amazing just to watch as their hearts are healed and they look different by the time I've seen people. But they walk in the door and they're just all bent down. By the time they leave, their head is back up and their heart, their. Their face is glowing because they've released pain that they carried so long.

It does. It weights you down. It weights you down. And. And, you know, a lot of people don't talk about it because there's so much shame associated with, you know, because you got the spanking growing up when you did wrong. You got on restriction. You got called the names. But. But here we are. You know, you don't find many places like this where you can say, yes, I did it. It was XYZ and y' all who are listening to me, they don't hear what you're saying. They don hear the things you did. They're just really wanting to get in there and get to the pain.

I know. We really don't.

And it's.

It's because somebody come back, said, do you remember when I came two years ago? And I said, such as that? I don't remember what you did. I don't. It doesn't. You know it. But in that, what Jesus did, he says he will remove your sin.

Yes.

No more. That's what he does. I mean, I experienced that. That's the love of God. Yeah, he does. So that's exactly because I am. I am. Yes. I'm hearing people talk and they're releasing it, but as they're receiving their healing, they. It's just. It's. It's removed as far as the east is from the west.

So beautiful.

I love that the living water of God is loving you. Yes.

These are mostly cycles in people's life. These are repetitive cycles are very difficult to break. Seeds create cycles. There's usually an event that sows the seed. And if I plant orange seeds out in my backyard, give it 20 years, I'm going to have an orange grove. And that's the way it works. So something planted a seed somewhere. Now there's a cycle that comes around and visits them every so often. And I think it's very important for maybe the hearers to hear, you know, Jesus chastise the woman at the well for her lifestyle. But he went straight to her pain.

He went straight to her pain.

He went straight to her pain. She sit there. She was going back and forth with him, sir, the well is deep. You have nothing to draw with. You Jews don't even talk to us Samaritans unless you want something. She just, nya, nyah, nya. Jesus knew he was getting nowhere. He Said, go call your husband. That's right when he went there. And he said, you've answered right, that you don't have one. You've had five. And living with is not your. He went straight to her pain, abusive, broken relationships. And basically he told her, he said, if you don't change the water you're drinking, I hope you like this place because you're going to be coming to it the rest of your life.

Yeah.

And I want to ask some people, I know this isn't an altar call, but do you want to live that way the rest of your life? Because God doesn't want you to.

No.

No.

And we don't want you to. I know living waters don't want you to. And the fact that you need somebody to help you switch wells, you got to drink from another source. And you got to drink from a living source, not a dying source. She kept going to men for what only God could give.

That's right.

And one thing, that living water, I love the water. The living water does is help you turn away from the well that depletes you and move to the well that satisfies. And when you begin to get a satisfied, I don't know that there is any greater quality of life than a heart that has been fully touched. Satisfied by the love of God, by the new well. And Jesus knew that. He told her, he said, if you drink from this, he said, your longing will leave.

Yeah, that's right.

But if you don't know what you're missing here, you're going to be doing this till you die.

And you know what we do when we're empty, when we're. When we have a stony heart, when we're broken and depleted, we look to people to satisfy. And I'll never forget what you told me and Ron. Pastor Denise, you said, when you get this real living water, when you really taste this acceptance and unconditional love of God, you ain't going to look to him to give you anything. If he never gave you attention, if he never told you you were pretty, you're still fine because you got everything you need. I'm not looking to you to make me feel loved.

I'm so healed that you can backwash M&Ms. In my water. And I don't even get mad. That's how healed I am.

That's healed.

I don't backwash number one.

I need another water. I can't drink.

Goodness gracious. So, Pastor Denise, if people are listening to us and they'll say, well, how do I Know if I need to initiate inner healing or go to living waters or go to a retreat. I love how we say when we teach the class and when you teach the class, if there is a tone, there's a stone. What does that mean?

If there is a tone, there's a stone. So if you're explain what that is.

I haven't heard that one. Okay.

Oh, that's the big one.

That's a big one. Yeah.

Because if you're talking in conversation, all of a sudden, your. Your voice tone. I told you I'm not going to do that ever again. I told you I'm not. Good. You know, if your voice tone changes, there's a stone.

Yeah.

You're literally. I mean, literally medically. Yeah. Your tone of voice, I can tell many times by speed of stone or voice will reflect the condition of your heart. Okay. And so if your voice tone changes in as you're talking, like if somebody says, oh, have you seen sister so. And so in a while, you say, no, I hadn't seen her. No, I don't.

And I don't want to see her.

I don't want to see her. But see, the tone of your voice changes. So if there is a tone. So everybody listening.

Yes.

You just begin to notice when your tone changes. Okay. When you're in conversation with your spouse, what trigger and you get triggered, your tone will change. Your tone of voice that's indicating there is a stone, which means something painful happened to you earlier in your life, in childhood, that really hurt you, and now it just closed up that area of your heart.

Yeah. Or like if you're going out the door, the wife's going out to get groceries, the husband says, well, when you coming back? What time should I expect you? He really just wants to know. Well, do I have to answer to you? I'm just going to get groceries.

Change that tone. Why do I have to. Yeah, why do you always asking? Everywhere I go, you know, and that's just fruit.

All that's fruit.

It's just fruit.

Showing what's really down here in the root, that we have a root problem. So we got to be healed by the root.

Exactly. You got to go to the root of it, where it originated. Because growing up, maybe the mama always would question every place you went, everything you went and accused you. You, you know, accused you. Then you closed your heart, mom, because she's always accusing. So it has to do something. And look, we're not dishonoring parents. You can't honor your mother and father until you Forgive them.

Oh, that's so good. You can't.

And so as you are forgiving them, I mean, they did the best they could parenting. But as you're forgiving them, it opens your heart and you can really love them. You love them.

Yes.

The love of God then pours out to them and you're honoring them more than you could have ever honored them, holding on to all this stuff that they did before.

And you know, in my life, it's true. You've watched it with your own eyes. You've seen me, I mean, me come to you broken. We dig out the pain and figure out back when I was little and all this and all the hurt and pain. You've watched me and my mom and dad go through restoration. And now I love being with my mom and dad. I love being with them.

I don't show you. I mean, it's amazing. The love of God. It will. It works. If people will just get a. Just say, I want my family restored like that. Well, it can be.

It can be. It can be. Y' all listening? We can over. I could talk about this subject for hours and hours and hours. We could just go on and go on and go on and go on. But we can't do it here on the podcast. But we have somewhere we can offer you healing. We do Healing the heart classes. These are Pastor Lee and Denise's classes here at Redemption. We do them Redemption East, Redemption West. Pastor Lee and Denise have their own ministry there in Hiddenite, North Carolina, where they do healing the heart retreats. They do marriage retreats, Esther retreats, men's retreats, pastors retreats, all on their website, livingwatersministry.com it's right here. We're showing you all the information, but if you need something quickly, you say, I just need some help. We're doing an intensive two day intensive retreat right here at Redemption west in San Jose, California, with Pastor Denise Boggs on the presence. It's gonna be amazing. And so you just need to go to myredemption cc. We got the information there. We want you to be free. We really, really do. I've lived on the other side. I've lived where I wasn't free, and I have lived free. And I'm telling you, it's worth every dime of money you will spend for counseling. It is worth all of the hard work that you will put in. It is worth everything that you will put down, everything that you will give up. I'm telling you, he wants you. He paid the ultimate price.

For our freedom, for you to have.

Freedom, so that we could.

It was for freedom that he set you free.

Yes, but it's work. It is work.

It's not quick.

It's not easy.

It's a journey.

And it is a journey.

It is a journey.

Yes. Yes, it is. We love you so much. We are so glad that you tuned in. Share this if you're listening. Share this with people who, you know, need healing. If you're watching on YouTube, please subscribe to our channel and then hit that like button. I don't know why the algorithms like this. We don't understand all that techie stuff, but they tell us if you subscribe and if you hit the like button, it brings our page up before people who aren't even following us. And we want to get this word out to the general public because we want as many people as possible to live in freedom.

Amen. Yes.

So in our closing remarks, we thank you. Thank you for who you've been to us. Thank you for who you are in the kingdom. And I would suspect you'll probably get some website hits and maybe some registrations out of this, I'm sure.

And we will welcome them. And I love y' all dearly and just. I just. I really do look forward to meeting each one that come and reach out for healing. And so my prayer is that, yes, you'll share this. Share this with friends, share this with loved ones, and let's get the word out.

Yeah, let's do it.

Heal the brokenhearted. Yes.

Amen. We love you. Until next time.

Blessings.

Bless you.