If You Don't Fight You Don't Win w/ Daniele Hage | Ron + Hope: Unfiltered

Hey, guys, it's Ron and Hope. Unfiltered, real raw and relevant.

We're doing something that we've never done before. We were recently a guest on someone else's podcast, Danielle Hage. The Hages are friends of ours and she asked us to be on the podcast, wanted to interview us about our story, which, number one, we haven't done in some time, and number two, together we've only done two or three times, period.

Yeah. So this is kind of like a first.

Yeah, this is in some way. And she asks questions that nobody's ever asked. So when you ask questions nobody's ever asked, information comes out that we've never told. So because of the nature of it, when we got through, we like, you know what? We need to make this podcast our podcast. And so we're going to show you. It's about 35 or so minutes of this interview. And I think there'll be something in there that you can find that may help you get over a thing or may prevent you from going down a certain path as we get pretty real raw and relevant inside of this.

Our testimony. Yeah, we overcome. You know, a lot of people even ask us, they say, why do you still tell your story? Why do you go back so many years ago? You know, that's 20 years ago, Ron. Can you believe it? When I was 35. That is 20 years ago. But we do it because we want to overcome. We overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony. And we do it to help somebody. There's got to be somebody out there who's struggling in their marriage, who's wanting to give up, who's wanting to file divorce papers. But you know what? Our story has helped so many people. It takes two. One person can't do. Truly takes two. And I'm so thankful that you are a God fearing man who loves Jesus. Well, more than your ego.

Well.

And you fought for us.

I did.

You did.

I did. And it was a difficult fight, but here we are. I want you to see this thing. We've never done this before and we didn't even ask their permission if we could do it. We're just going to show it. So anyway, enjoy this comment. Like, share, download. We need you to do all of these things because it helps us do what we do at a higher level and get it to more people. Love you guys. Enjoy.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Danielle Hage podcast where we talk about everything that has to do with relationships. And today I am so excited to welcome Pastor Ron and Hope Carpenter. They are they pastor or they did pastor in South Carolina, actually, they're both right. Pastor in South Carolina and now you pastor also in Northern California, in San Jose. And they have a TV ministry. They have a. A weekly podcast, which I love. The title is called unfiltered, real, raw, and relevant. I love that. And the thing that I appreciate about you two so much is that you are so real and so raw. I just love that because everybody can relate to realness. Nobody can relate to perfection. That's right. And so Hope, she is also an author, and she wrote the most beautiful disaster. This was her debut book. Very, very good. I read this a couple of years ago, and then just most recently, she has also just written a book called if you don't fight, you don't win. Also very good. I haven't finished it, but I've been listening to it and browsing through it. So congratulations on that.

Thank you so much. Thank you.

And congratulations on having over 100,000 subscribers to your YouTube channel. That's amazing.

That's. This one.

No, that's pretty good.

This one.

We did it together.

You guys are doing great. Okay, so I'm just gonna jump right into this, and because I think people, they want to hear the real and the raw, and I know, I, I, I do, too. So, first of all, I love history sharing. I love starting from the beginning. I want you to tell us how you guys met. And wait, first of all, you've been married 30.

34.

34. Next month.

Next month.

34 years. Next month. Awesome. Congratulations on that.

You feel so old when you say that.

I know.

Oh, my God. I feel like I should only.

Well, we got married when we were 11.

Oh, yeah, exactly.

Okay.

And did you guys meet in high school or college?

Nope. Go ahead, Ron.

You want to tell.

No, you tell the flowery, exaggerated version.

I tell the evangelistic version.

We'll let you do it. Okay.

Well, first of all, I'm sorry we got started a little late on the podcast. It was very hard to get Hope ready this morning and get her here. So we're a little bit behind. But anyway.

That's crazy.

Anyway, I was a church boy and then kind of rebelled against that. Loved my dad, but did not love his life. I didn't love his life. I didn't like the glass house. I didn't like any of that. So I kind of went wayward, to say the least and went my own way. Got a college basketball scholarship because we were extremely poor. We didn't have any money for College. And when I got there, I really had an experience with God that revolutionized my life. Some people, you know, get saved. I mean, I got converted. I got up from that experience and did a 180. I mean, I left these and I left that and I never did this again. I mean, it was a 180 experience in my life. It was revolutionary. So I was a freshman in college. I went and gave up my scholarship in basketball after one year. Got me three different jobs to put my way through Bible school. Entered the Bible college curriculum, and Hope came visiting as a high school senior. They had, I don't know if they still do that today, but they had back then, weekends designated for high school seniors to come and visit the schools. So I was a freshman in school, she was a visiting high school senior. And we were at a concert and I looked down and this was 1987. This is 1987 and you're around our age. So, you know, I looked down and I saw the biggest cotton candy head of bleach blonde hair I had ever seen in my life. I'm up in the stands, she's sitting on the floor.

And it was high, wasn't it?

She had on a blue sweater dress. And I remember the sweater dress well, and every curve and everything that went with it. I remember all of it.

I thought you were converting.

And I remember the white hose. I remember the bone colored shoes, the cow neck. I remember all of them. So long and short of it is, I told my roommate, I said, I got to look this campus over till I find who that girl is. So we literally. It wasn't a big campus. It was a fairly small community college. And so I just went from dorm to dorm to dorm, community areas, whatever. And finally you said, this is raw, right? Can I be raw? Okay. I'm not going to be a preacher right here. I'm going to be raw. I went and opened the door of this one dormitory, it's called Jackson hall. And she was leaning over the back of a couch with her backside facing right toward me. And I opened the door and I just stopped. And I told my roommate, I said, if that girl looks half as good when she turns around, I'm going to marry her.

Oh my gosh, he really got burned, right?

Listen. But I hadn't been saved long. I was a new convert.

Oh my God.

I hadn't had my mind renewed and all that.

So anyway, he was still a boy.

I went over there and you were screaming. She sat down on the couch and I grabbed her hand Got down on one knee and introduced myself, Rico Suave. And she. The next day, and I'm going to give you the quick version here, she wanted. We got up. She wanted to drive my car. I had a little sports car. I didn't let anybody drive that car ever.

She knew that was the way to his heart. So I said, if I can get in his car.

So tell her what's happening. You asked me if I had a girlfriend. I told you no.

I did. I wanted to know if he had a girlfriend. He said, absolutely. He lied. So he wasn't that converted again. And so I'm driving the car and we're going over a hill.

We're going out of the entrance way.

To the campus and this car's coming toward us. And the person in the car is just waving like this. And so what do I do? I'm driving. I just wave. And then I see Ron just kind of crouch down.

Oh, my God.

Come to find out it was his girlfriend.

So Hope's driving my car and we're leaving the campus and Hope is in the driver's seat of my car waving at my girlfriend. They didn't last long. The relationship didn't last long. She went away for the summer, actually dated another boy. Because you never called and came back. And I told my guys, I said, I'm going to walk around and see if I can find that girl that was here about six months ago. And I went and I found her. And this is the funniest thing. She had a wall, like a shrine built to this guy. It was pictures from top to bottom with this guy she had dated all summer. I didn't say anything. I just looked around. I'm like, well, okay, I guess this isn't going to happen.

Well, you lose.

Wouldn't that. Tell her what you told me when I asked about the wall?

He did. Because I had told my mom, I said, I hope that Ron Carpenter is dating somebody. I said, because if he's not, I'm going to have to break up with this guy. Because I really felt something in my heart when we met.

You were 17.

It didn't matter. Here we are. Look at us. It was God. And so when we got there and he came to my room, I was like, oh, no. So I ran after him and I was like, oh, that was the guy I dated this summer. Like, you know, I'm not dating him anymore. So we worked through all that.

We started dating three weeks later, which wasn't totally honest.

No. Okay, I just paid you back.

So we Both had to get a little sanctified, that we weren't quite on the up and up. But the fact is, it was about literally a matter of weeks after that, man, I just turned my heart loose. I was smitten. I was so desperately, deeply in love. And we were pretty much that couple for three years that made everybody go, yeah, you know, because we couldn't keep our hands off each other. It was just amazing time.

Okay, so now you. In one of your podcasts, you talk about dating responsibly, and this is kind of mind blowing, but you said you dated way too long, and you said that you dated. Was it three or four years before you actually got married?

A little over three.

And you never had sex?

No.

That's amazing. That is amazing that you held out.

I don't even know if amazing is the word, Danielle.

I think it was more like. I think it was more like. Torment. Yeah, torment. A little more like what it was.

Because, I mean, we really wanted to do it. Right. We had had other relationships, you know, prior that were not done. Right.

And we knew we were serious about our relationship with God.

And we loved the Lord.

We loved the Lord.

Really made a commitment, and we were like, let's really try to not have sex.

It was extremely difficult. It was extremely difficult. And on the raw side, you know, we would have moments where when she would visit me at my house on the weekends or something like that, you couldn't keep her hands off where we crossed the line and tell her what I would do all night long.

He would pray all night long and then try to feel guilty. He'd be like, are you not going.

To pray all night long? I just. If we cross any of our boundaries, I would feel so bad. You know, I came from a holiness church. You know, God's going to get you. And so I would stay up literally for hours praying if I felt like we did anything wasn't right. But somehow or another, by the grace of God, we were teenagers. We were early 20s, and we saw each other for. Every day for over three years. But we did not cross that line. Gosh.

Well, I admire that.

I bagged him to kneel several times, but he wouldn't do it.

But that is major discipline. Major discipline, but. And good to know that it can be done.

Yeah.

You know, for those out there who say that it's not possible, it is possible. It can be possible. Okay, so then. Okay, so now you're married. How long into marriage before hope, before the infidelity showed up?

Well, I was. We married at 20. I was 21. You were 20. Fixing to be 22.

Fixing to be 22.

And in this book, the Most Beautiful Disaster, we don't have time in the podcast, but it chronicles all of that. My downfall, my falling apart. And then the most beautiful part is God putting my life back together. And it's really a powerful story. But I had been through a lot prior to Ron. I was raised in a very.

That was not revealed.

Yes, I was raised in a very strict home. They called it strict, but today would be abusive. And, you know, the blood running down your legs, being punched across a room, you know, your face being clawed off, and just. It was very traumatic.

And this is a Christian home. Yes, you're raised in a Christian home.

And that's really hard to reconcile in your mind that, you know, this is Christian. We're doing this because we love the Lord. We're strict. We don't want you to be like the other girls. And so I thought when I married Ron that just by changing my last name and changing my address, that all that was going to poof, go away. And come to find out, about 35 years old. It was just a buildup. It did not go away. It was just boiling on the inside of me. That anxiety, that trauma, the feeling of living under everybody's thumb, you know, never having a say. Not that Ron didn't give me a say, but, you know, the enemy will use any situation, a perfect storm, to represent your dad, to make it feel like you're still living at home under these restrictions. And it was just a time in my life at 35, that the top. I just remember looking at Ron saying, I can't live like this anymore. I didn't know what that meant. I did not understand even why I was feeling. Because nobody talked about counseling, Danielle. Back then, nobody talked about, you know, childhood trauma. Nobody talked about that kind of stuff. Matter of fact, you were told, what happens in this house stays in this house. You know, you don't talk about anything.

And if you're a Christian, you don't go to counseling because Jesus is your counselor.

You go to the altar.

You need to, from the word of God. Because I know. I remember even my dad, who got converted after I got converted later on, and he was so like, you know, no, counseling is of the devil. You don't need that. And I always thought, why. Why not ask for help? Why not get other somebody, a therapist, a professional's input? But anyway, continue.

Yeah, so, yes. So, yeah, my top just blew. And I. And I Just after much counseling now and therapy, I have realized that what was happening to me at 35 was what they call individuation is what happens we're supposed to happen when you're 12, 13, 14, in the. In this, you know, safety of your parents home, where you touch your fingers to the stove, so to speak, and you get burned and you're like, oh, I don't want to do that again. I've learned my lesson. I was never granted those permissions to go to sock cops and go to dances or sleepovers and that type of thing. And if I was, you know, I had to jump through a hundred hoops and perform all the straight A's and never be laid. And it was just a very strict, traumatic upbringing. And so at 35, I woke up and said, I can't live like this anymore. And I just made some, you know, we giggle about it now. You know, I started doing a few things. I went out and bought a bikini, bathing suit. Ooh, sinner. Just center, center. And I went and bought three secular CDs. Ooh, a real center, you know, and listen to them. And I bought a six pack of beer and drank them all. So now I'm going to hell on a slip and slide. But those few decisions, veering off just a little, just kept going down a path. And it took me further than I ever dreamed I would go. Started being running with friends I never should have been with. Letting off the steam, you know, going to places I shouldn't be unfaithful to my husband. Never dreamed I would do that. I loved my husband. I was just a miserable human. I loved the Lord. And that was even double whammy on me because I loved God. I know I'm doing this. So it actually made me worse. So it was like nine years of a double life that collapsed. I just collapsed in 2013. And that's what this is, you know, to the world. It was a terrible disaster. It was a terrible. It went. Went worldwide. The news went worldwide, didn't it? I think we were like the third number three story. It's awful to say that in the Christian world, you know, that we capitalize on people's pain and downfalls. But to the.

Let me interrupt real quick. One second. I just want to know right there in those nine years where you were going down the wrong road.

Yeah.

Ron, where were you? What was happening with you? Did you see it? Did you notice it? Did you ever confront anything or where were you?

Unbridled misery. Unbridled misery, anxiety. My chest about to bust, knowing something was going on, didn't know what. We had the most amazing courtship. We were crazy in love, and she just crumbled. She just became this other person. And I confronted her a thousand times, but those didn't lead anywhere. They just usually ended up in a huge fight and made it worse because she was not backing down with the path that she was going down. So at that time, you know, you either call it quits and you have this whole set of problems, or either you try to make it work, and you have a whole different set of problems. And so I just went to work on trying to hold our life together, trying to buffer her. We had an extremely large church, extremely large ministry in an extremely small city, and there was a tremendous amount of turmoil. I knew. Would you say I'm a strong guy? I tend to be kind of raised like a tough guy type? I'm a man's man type guy?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I knew from the time I met her, there was something about her that was vulnerable. I didn't know what that was. Don't ask me if prophetic insight, psychological, I don't know, but I just knew. And it. I have a lot of protective instincts, and there was something about that that made me want to protect her, because I just knew there was something cracked somewhere.

Well, you knew the family dynamic.

I knew the family dynamic. But this describes a rape, and this describes a lot of. And Hope says, you know, we had a million talks. We sat beside riverbeds and talked for three years. I mean, for hours. And those things never came up.

So we weren't having sex. We had to talk, Danielle.

So, you know, these issues, I was never told about them, which are extremely traumatic issues, because she would tell me, you know, she knew I was a preacher boy. She didn't want me to think bad or this and that and the other. So, you know, that was part of my problem.

You know, I was raised in that perfection home. Everything had to be perfect. So I could not let him know anything was wrong with me, that I had done anything wrong or anything bad had happened to me.

Yeah. So, you know, I knew there was something. But when she. But when she started spiraling down, it was a very fast, very aggressive process. I mean, the friends, the clothes, the activities. She'd disappear. Sometimes she'd just disappear.

Wow.

And I'd get a call, where are you at? You know, and I'm in Atlanta. I just. It was nuts. And, you know, on her side, she details how the grace of God brought her back on my Side, All I can say it was Grace. I just survived it. I didn't thrive through it. I survived it. And it was very difficult creating a buffer between. I didn't want the people to see what she was going through.

Right.

Well, Hope.

And that was hard during that time. Hope, were you thinking maybe you wanted out of the marriage, out of the ministry?

I think the enemy would lie to me to tell me that, you know, that it would be easier, it's less painful, it's less stressful, and that's what the enemy does. That's what a stronghold is. It's a lie that you've taken to be the truth. So he wanted to destroy our marriage. He wanted to destroy the ministry. So, yes, he would put those thoughts in my head, but I knew never acted on it because I did love my husband at my core. Yeah, I loved my family. I knew I was called to ministry. I was just in a horrible, vexing state.

Right. So.

So when it all came out. Okay, did it come out? Because I think I read that you, Hope confessed it to Ron.

Yes. Well, it had gotten to a very bad place. It had gotten very toxic. It had gotten very life or death almost in my situation. And some situations had happened where I just came to Ron, I was like, I can't hold this anymore. You know, things were coming out. He was finding out things. And so I was like, you know what? I'm going to come to him. I'm going to just put it all on the table. We got everything out on the table. And I thought, you know, with Ron being. Ron's such a sweet guy. I mean, he's like a big teddy bear. And I knew he'd been praying for me. And I thought, well, this is going to be God's answer for both of us. And he's going to wrap and he's going to, you know, fix all this for me. And he said, you got 30 minutes. Get your stuff, get out. And he had just had it.

I was exhausted.

He had just had it.

I was exhausted. You know, you can't imagine 10 years of that kind of tension in your home. 10 years of not knowing if she's coming home. 10 years. This. You know, some people like, man, you really reacted strong on that. No, I mean, this had been going on a long, long time. And it was. It wasn't that I didn't love Hope. It was that I am going into protection mode. I'm trying to protect myself from further pain.

Sure.

I just can't take it anymore.

Right.

Okay. So, Ron, I Want to ask you, because I think if I. I could be wrong on the statistics, but I think it's somewhere between 1 and 3. Between 1 and 3% of men will stay in a marriage when the wife has committed adultery. And there's lots more women that will stay, but not very men. Okay, a very, very small amount of men will stay. And here you are, successful in ministry, totally respected, a very powerful man. How did you stay? How have you stayed?

It was a lot of factors, and that's the way I had to think. You know, I wish I could give you this, write my book and just tell you it was this beautiful love story, but it wasn't. I was devastated at the news that came out. I was gutted. I didn't even know I could feel such pain. I can't even describe it, but I would. We were separated for, you know, weeks. Here I am in this big old house that we bought together, we built together. I'm alone. My kids, basically, except my daughter, are grown, you know, and she's in her last year or two of high school, so she's got friends. We had one grandbaby. I didn't want to be the guy where my kids had to go to four Thanksgivings. And see, I thought about those things. I thought about. I don't. Another thing I love hard. I don't think, Danielle, if I may. I don't think I'm a normal guy. I see these guys that, you know, divorce or lose somebody and they got somebody else waiting in the wing before, you know, before they get their mate's body cooled off and in the ground. You know, I just. I looked at friends of mine who were. I would talk to, and I say, you know, what? I gave Hope. I don't know that I have two of them. I didn't hold nothing back from her. I gave myself. I gave all of me to her. I didn't. I couldn't imagine, you know, I would think of these things in my mind. I didn't want to the church, to walk with us through a nasty public divorce. I just. And so all these things in my mind helped me stack up an argument that I need to try to work this out. And I'm going to say something I've only said two or three times because I hadn't done a lot of interviews. Hope's done a million of them. I haven't written a book. I haven't done interviews. Most of the people that were telling me, you need to move on and find you somebody that loves you like that you deserve to be loved. Most of them were pastors. My phone was getting blown up by people telling me that. And if I started name dropping, these were very familiar names. And it dawned on me, no matter, no wonder that's where we are in the church with such a high divorce rate, if that's what the pastors are thinking, the pastors, I mean, like, man, go on and get you somebody else. I mean, it was just like nothing. Just drop her and move.

I remember you making one statement. You said, if this doesn't work, if this, what I preach every day to, to my congregation and through all these years, if it doesn't work for me, I need to get out of the ministry. And I think that's the bottom line for him. He is a principled, truly, you know, governed by the Holy Spirit man. He really is. And I believe that's why a lot of men get out is they're not, they're not walking the walk and they're not being led by the Spirit. They're being led by their feelings, their emotions, their grief, whatever. Because it is traumatic. I'm not trying to say that it's, you know, gloss over the pain. It's very traumatic. But Ron, on the other hand, is an extremely spirit led man and I'm so grateful for that. If he weren't, we wouldn't be here today.

Right. Because the Holy Spirit in you is stronger than your ego.

Because you have to rely on.

Yeah.

And I. To show you that my love was still there. I knew that when this story broke, I knew it was going to be hell.

Yeah.

I'd already called in publicist, I'd already called in council. I was going to make the announcement to the church. The church was packed. The building held 5,000 people. And I got that. And I got TV cameras everywhere. And even a guy that I brought in to help me PR wise looked at me right before I stepped on the stage. He said, you know, this is going to be the worst day of your life. I mean, it was just awful. The local news, the local talk radio, it was one of those churches where everybody was waiting to see us screw up. They were waiting to see us screw up. So there were people that our downfall became their entertainment. So the long and short of it is I knew the bomb blast was going to be absolutely horrendous. So I got Hope out of there, even though I wanted her out of my house. We made provision at the place she describes in the book where she went to live in a ministry situation. I don't Know, if you call it a ministry house, I don't even know really what they are. They're just unique.

Yeah. It's a lodge in North Carolina where they do retreats, healing the heart retreats and women's retreats and men's retreats and marriage retreats. And they really help people who find themselves in the low part of life.

Because when that happened, you know, when I drew the line, I don't know that Hope was expecting the line to be drawn. But when I drew it, you know, I could see the look in her eyes. She was lost. You know, I don't know where I'm going. What am I going to do? And so I called those people and said, you can't be having a bunch of people there while my wife is there. I said, what does it take six months for you to shut down? And I took our life savings and I just paid this place. Just let Hope be there. Now, later on, other people came in. Just let Hope be there and minister to my wife. And that was another argument. Danielle, my wife, found this as a time to really like, I'm going to find out what's wrong with me, what's broken in me.

I dug in.

Yeah, she dug in on the other side, which most people don't do. You know, a lot of people don't do the Ron side, but a lot of people don't do the Hope side either. And I saw her digging in, and here's what I thought. This is just conventional wisdom. I thought, why am I going to put up and live and love the worst part of her, and she's going to go up on that mountain and God's going to revolutionize her and get her healed, and then I'm going to give the best version of Hope to somebody else. Right.

That's a great point.

If I've been through seed time, I'm going to have harvest time.

Yeah, you've already been through the hell.

Yes. It can't be any worse, can't get any worse. It can only go up from where we are. And that was another thing in my mind, why am I going to send her off to some other guy, you know, when you know, wait a minute. I paid the price to have a good life with her?

Yeah.

I went through the brokenness. You know, I loved her and I covered her while she was doing things, and she didn't even know why she was doing it.

Yeah.

And so the first question you asked me, how did I stay? It was a list of things I was able to make that gave me the ability to stay in the game. And the worst part, for anybody who's done this, I'm going to tell you the most tormenting part. It's not re blending your life. It's not dreaming again. It's not building you back. It's rebuilding trust. Rebuilding trust is horrible. Huge, just horrible. And I have a.

It's not quick.

I have a two minute version of a story there. You know, when Hope went to this place, they didn't take them. She gave them her car keys, gave them her computer, gave them her phone. She's like, whatever. She just like, you know, I'm a mess, I'm a broken mess. And whatever I got to do, she just gave it up. Well, you know that phone is how people sustain relationships is through that phone.

Yeah.

So was it a year? Two years.

Two years.

Two years. She came back home after nine months. After about nine months. And then she started splitting time here and there. And no computer, no phone. She didn't ask to go anywhere. She's cooking meals. She seems content for the first time in years. She has a glow about her that I haven't. That look in her eyes of anxiety seemed like it was gone. God had really done a work in her life. And I remember one of the most memorable times that we had was after two years of her going above and beyond to make me feel peace in my home again as I took her out to eat and I went and bought her an iPhone. And she didn't know it. And while we were having dinner, I pulled it out of a bag and I mean, my hands were trembling.

Wow.

Because that was basically me saying, I trust you again.

Absolutely.

And we both sat there and cried.

We both sat there and wept.

It makes me emotional.

Her hands were shaking, my hands were shaking. It wasn't the phone, it was the message I was sending with the phone that I'm giving you back the ability to run your life and I'm gonna. And I trust you that you will run it well and not hurt me.

Right.

And that was a huge, huge night for us.

Huge.

Well.

And we had a ton. We have a million stories like that.

I am sure. I know, I know. But I think too, this is one of the things that I'm wondering with you, Ron, is did you realize after, you know, all this time that it wasn't personal to you? I mean, it seemed personal to you. Very personal with that your wife did this, but really it was out of her own brokenness, her own issue. It wasn't because you were A bad husband.

Right.

Or you didn't pay attention to her, or, you know, you were, you know, missing in some way or weren't enough. It wasn't personal. And that's what I tried to explain to people that have gone through this, and they are like, it's so personal. I'm like, it's really not. It's coming out of their. The person who has, you know, committed the offense, it's coming out of their own.

I think he finally did. You know, it took a while because, of course, it makes it very. It's very personal.

It's hard to tell the person that it's done to. That it's not.

I know.

But that is still the truth, right? It is the truth. And I think he has learned over the years, man, it's been. Guys, it's been how many years ago? 12 years ago, you know, now. So we've come a long way, but.

You know, yeah, I did through counseling. I had never been through counseling in my life. I came from the Old Holiness Church, the deeply Pentecostal people. If God can't do it at an altar, it can't be done. Literally. I don't even remember a church that I grew up in even ever have any counselors. When I decided to get back in the game, which. That's a traumatic love story that a movie could be made about. When I finally made the decision and called her and said, you know, I'm going to take a swing at this. And I didn't know if I could do it, but I was going to try. When I finally got to that place where I was willing to make that decision to get back in the game, I think it was being in the counseling sessions that gave me a picture, a bigger picture of how. Yeah, I can see how this could happen. Yeah, I can see how you take that, that, that, that, that. That you're going to end up right here. And so getting a perspective from that setting probably helped me not take it so personal. It was deeply personal. But at the same time, I realized whoever married her, that same bomb blast was probably going to take place. It wasn't just aimed at me.

Right.

And so, yes, that probably helped me gain perspective was being in counseling sessions with her.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so good. Okay, so let's bring it to present day. Okay, you guys. I mean, you seem like you're doing great, but I want to ask, is there something. Well, let me ask you this, because you do a marriage retreat, and I know we're going to wrap it up soon. But you, you. You have a marriage retreat that you do every year. Is there. What would you say, in your mind is the most common mistake that spouses do in marriage? Like, what's. What. What do you think is the thing that causes the downfall, the disconnect? Is there one thing or is it. Is it a bunch of things?

I. I don't know if there would be a one thing, but I think to having been married this long, having dealt with so many couples, and especially since we have overcome, you know, in the last 12 years and being able to help other people overcome, I think the feeling that everything that happened up until I met you doesn't matter and is not going to affect us. That is huge.

Just a lie. It's not true.

It's not true because you bring everything that you are, everything you've been through, you're marrying.

You're marrying that person and everybody and everything connected to them and every experience they've ever walked through. So when I see those young couples, well, we're not going to bring our past into our marriage. I just immediately grind that into powder right off the grate, because that's just not true.

And then here we are with multiple marriages. You know, nowadays you got people married two and three times, and then you're bringing all the spiritual aspect of that, blended family, you know, soul ties, sexual experiences, traumatic events. And people just think, you know, I'm just going to put this over here, and it's not going to affect this. It affects everything you think, feel, do, and say, yeah, yeah, that's right. That's good.

So when is your marriage?

Let me ask that question. You say, is it one thing? It's not one thing. It's always several things. But I'm going to tell you, one thing I would say is secrets. Secrets are like carrying around plutonium. I have never seen anything good when spouses are carrying around secrets.

And that's kind of like what I said. Whether it's not secret or you just don't talk about it, you put it over here and don't deal with it, just ignore it.

That just never goes anywhere good. And I think there has to be full disclosure in a marriage and that. And that brings full accountability. Hope and I think we are each other's accountability partner. If I feel like something's wrong, I go tell her I feel like something's wrong. Hope can open my phone anytime she wants to and look at anything she wants to. And it's never face down. It's always face up. Because now we live a life of.

Full disclosure and those are great safeguards. Those are great safeguards you're guarding your marriage. That's really good. It's not that you don't trust each other, you're just saying let's, hey, we're.

Human, there's nothing to hide.

I don't even want him to wonder. I don't ever want her to have a minute in her life where she's wondering where's his heart at? I don't ever want her to feel that feeling and I don't think she ever wants me to feel it again either. So we try to put safeguards in place to make sure that we don't ever cause each other that kind of pain again.

Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful. Well, I, I so admire both of you. I love how honest and real and authentic you are. I think you guys are making such an impact in the ministry world and the world, you know, just because you know most couples, many couples could not have done what you have done. And I think Ron, it shows your humility as a man and a very God fearing man which is so, so respectable and hope that the, the fact that you could come out and talk about it and be so real about it and because you want to help others and lots of people have suffered with the same similar things that you've suffered with and not known how to get out of it.

Right.

And so I just, I think that is so beautiful and you know, that's.

Why I wrote that book. And it wasn't to exploit our problem, it was to help people come out of anything. That's that they feel like there's a lid on their life or they feel like I can't get out of this addiction or I can't get out of this lifestyle or. And I trapped in some way and everybody's is different. You know, we all have our own struggles and our own issues but this book truly is a tool. It's a pathway, it's a pathway back to freedom.

It's not everybody wants to know the nasty dirty details of everything. It's not that it gives you a broad picture of the decline, but it is a journey out of someone who took the road less traveled.

Right.

And it's then this one is just more power, more power to the punch to help you. You come out and then you continue to live a life of if I'm going to get free or if I'm going to be victorious or if I'm going to have a great marriage or lose weight or Become financially independent, whatever it is. If you don't fight, you don't win, because God is not a genie in a bottle and he's not going to do it for you.

Yeah, that's right. That's so good. Okay, so when is your marriage retreat?

It is August, August 8th through the 10th. And it's called. This year, it's called Power Couple. We've never done this one.

We've never done.

No, we've never done this one. We've done. We just did a regular marriage on the east coast, and we had. Goodness gracious. How many couples? 400 couples. Wow. Yeah, about 400 couples. But this one coming up in August is in Half Moon Bay, and we're much smaller, taking 50 couples, because we want to become intimate with them. We want to be able to sit across the table and let them pour and share and us pour into. And so we're about halfway full. So we got space for about 25 more couples. So you just go to roncarpenter.com power couples.

Okay. Wonderful. Excellent. I love it. And this is for anybody? Anybody. Not ministry couples. I mean, anybody.

Yeah, let's sit in a marriage conference. And we're not trying to repair anything. We're trying to build something and make it stronger.

Yes.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

Okay. Well, thank you again for taking the time on your. So appreciate you guys. I'm honored that you would be here, and especially you, Ron. I know you're a busy man, all right. And I know this is probably the last thing you'd like to be doing on a Monday on your day off, but I appreciate both of you for doing this.

Thank you, Danil, we love you.

Take care.

We love you, too.

What a story, huh? I mean, I get emotional still talking about it because just seeing brings up old feelings. Well, I don't get emotional for that way. I don't get emotional bringing up the old feelings. I get emotional at the goodness of God.

It's not just the negative ones. It's the miracles and it's the stories and it's the triumphs and it's the overcoming, and it's. I felt this way this day, and then God did this. You know, so many of the things in there, we've never really told the whole story because there's so many miracles and it took. It was so over such a long period of time. But anyway, I hope you got something out of this one. Maybe we haven't told it a lot anyway. I know we did on Daystar, maybe one or two other times, not many times where you got both of us together to hear how we processed, how we processed it and how we tried to overcome together.

And if you haven't gotten this book, if you haven't gotten the most beautiful disaster, it can help. It will really help you to understand us, us more to understand our love while we're so passionate about fighting for marriage. And it is a pathway. It's a tool. If you would love to be mentored. And I have an inner circle where I just pour into people. It's not just women. It's men and women who are in it. We meet twice a month. Go to hopes inner circle.com and join the inner circle. And if you'd like to come to our marriage retreat, Mastering business life and ministry, whatever it is in your life that you want to master. It's called a power couples retreat. Go to roncarpenter.com Power Couples it is August 8th through the 10th this year, right around the corner. So you got to get registered.

All right. Hope you guys enjoyed it. Love you. We'll see you soon on Ron and Hope. Unfiltered, real raw and relevant.