Is Online Church Enough? | Ron + Hope: Unfiltered

Hey guys, welcome to Ron and Hope Unfiltered. It's real, raw, and it's relevant. And we got a good topic for you today. This definitely isn't Hope sitting here. You can tell that. You know what I said? They were just telling me, they said, Pastor, they said statistics show us that when Hope's not on there, your ratings go down. Shh. And I'm like, well, I don't know if that's supposed to make me feel good or bad or whatever. But Hope said actually she's come higher this week. She's got the ladies down in, I think, Palm Springs. She rotates them back and forth on different sides to try to include everybody and not make everybody fly all over the place. But she's got one in Palm Springs and she went down there last night and they're going to be doing that till Saturday. And for those of you that don't know, these things are usually taped before then. Mm-hmm. So I brought Jonathan in. And he, as you know, is not only our Spanish pastor, now he's our young adult pastor. And when I'm on the East Coast, he's the one that is preaching here on the West Coast. So, kind of a lot of changes for you.

It's been great, though.

Huge changes, actually, 'cause Redemption still is— it's a big platform, it's a big church, it reaches a lot of people. And so, I remember it was years before I ever dreamed I could preach to— what's Facebook Live? Just by itself, I think it was 56,000 this week. And then YouTube Live, like 24,000. Then we got our online community. And it's just crazy how many people you have church with now. And you see what's in the building, and you think you're preaching to what's in the building, but then you don't understand there's this national and somewhat global audience out there. Since I got back from South Africa, I looked on there through my social media on Facebook Live, everywhere. Yeah. I mean, they were watching all over the place from South Africa. So it's a growing community, and he's done phenomenal job. But also, I like to bring— I don't know if you've noticed, when Hope is not here, everybody I try to bring in is usually a generation behind me, at least one generation behind me, because I do know that I'm not 25 anymore. And as I get older, I want to know the language of the new generation. I want to know the music of the new generation. I want to know how to connect. I don't want to have this message inside of me, this word inside of me, but yet not have the proper wrapping paper. that allows me to engage with a younger generation. And so that allows me to do it when I have these conversations with you. Here's what I wanna do. We only do this for about 30 or 40 minutes. It's not gonna take real long. But I'm gonna go somewhere I've never gone before. And I don't wanna be hypocritical. I wanna talk about the negative effects of social media on a generation. I didn't tell you what we were gonna do beforehand, but I've known since this morning.

Mm-hmm.

Because I don't want us to look at statistics. I don't want to do that kind. I don't want to, well, Google says right here that since the rise of social media, this has happened. That's not what I'm wanting. I'm wanting, as you minister to your constituency, as I minister to my constituency, I see negative effects. I use it. I don't want to be a hypocrite.

Yes, sir.

I use it.

Us both.

During COVID it was God's tool for our survival.

Yeah.

So I don't wanna be a hypocrite, but to think that everything in social media is being used in a positive way, we're just lying to ourself. It's just flat out not happening. And I think a lot of our young generation's problems, I think a lot of our moral decay, And everybody having a voice, everybody being a teacher, everybody being an instructor, you know, without any vetting, without any credentials, without any training. And I think it's led to some things that are extremely detrimental. And be honest with you, I don't really know how to fight it.

Yeah.

I don't know how do you combat it? So I wanted to start off with one of the things that I see, and then I'm gonna let you talk. I'm not gonna talk the whole time. I'm doing this series, as you know, on the house of God. And I've preached, I'm sure, on some aspect of Jacob's ladder many times. I've been talking about what Jacob said, this is the house of God, this is the gate of heaven.

The gate of heaven, yep.

And really, it felt like God's showing me some things that I've never seen before. I've made several comments. I feel like I'm onto something. And there's times when I am preaching a series, where it's God just giving me a word to speak. Then there are other times I feel like he's uncovering something. Yeah. A secret, a mystery is being revealed. And that, boy, that excites me and generates when I feel like God is giving me revelation on something. And I believe that that's been happening. What is the kind of house that God builds? What is the kind of house God lives in? What does that house look like? What's supposed to happen when we gather? And what is a gateway of heaven? And I've been talking about all these things. I said that to say this. I am so grateful for our virtual community, which we call Redemption Online. We called it iChurch for years.

Yep.

But that's Redemption Online. They are highly faithful. During conferences, they jump on airplanes and they fly in. They do everything they can to be a part. They tithe, they give, they're bought in, they serve, they get on Facebook groups, they do everything. Mm-hmm. But I feel like watching church or watching your favorite preacher on social media has become a substitute for church and has made church attendance so— excuse me, but I'm frustrated— so freaking casual. That I think it is a negative trend. I think the reason so many pastors are doing so many entertainment-based things to try to get people to church has a lot to do with it's hard to get people to church. I think it started much earlier, but I think COVID exacerbated it.

Yep.

And people said— I would agree. I don't need church. I can stay right here and listen to Ron. And I don't believe that's true.

No, I totally agree, Pastor.

And you don't have to agree with me because, you know, I'm your pastor sitting here. If you say, you know, Pastor, I love this, I want to push back on this a little bit, that's fine. Do it.

No, I think it's done 2 things. It's opened the church to the world, as in like it's given massive influence, um, because now it's at people's, you know, when they're on their, on their phones or whatever, like they're able to engage with it. But the reality is, is, uh, that person that did come to church, it also did the opposite for them. Now, now they— it seems like they could only, or they desire only now to connect online, right? Or let's say once a month I'll go to the church and then the other 3 weeks I'll just tune in.

That's what's happening. They haven't left church.

Yeah, yeah.

their attendance is just extremely casual, making it difficult to bring a powerful people together under a common vision. So for churches that are really motivated for kingdom impact, we want to make a difference, we want to impact our community, our city, our state, our region, maybe nations. For the pastors that really are like that, getting everybody together to build that culture is essential.

Yeah.

But when you got to pastors 6 or 8 weeks of people swirling. I can't say the same thing for 8 weeks to make sure everybody heard it.

Yep.

So you're getting bits and pieces of what God is saying to your pastor. You're getting fragments. The way I teach is the first one leads to the second one, and the second one builds on the first one, and the third one builds on the second one, and the fourth one builds on the third one. That's the way I preach. And if you miss number 2, I can't build the house. Yep. And I can't stand it when I had great attendance one Sunday and I'm like, okay, next Sunday I'm taking 'em here. Next Sunday I got half that 'cause the 49ers are playing. Or if I'm on the East Coast, South Carolina and Clemson, one of 'em, the fan bases is mad and won't come to church. Okay, I got half of 'em there. I almost don't wanna preach what I got planned because it is so necessary for you to hear what I got to say, for me to take you where I believe God's trying to get me to take you.

Yeah.

That makes sense.

No, it makes a lot of sense. 'Cause I think also the big thing that I've noticed is like people's appetite, spiritual appetite has changed. So they've been like, they haven't caught onto the fact that they've allowed themselves to be to an extent filled on other things than what the house of God does for us. Because I'm realizing that, for example, like you give somebody a bag of Hot Cheetos or you give somebody a soda, they'll be full for a moment. But it didn't— it wasn't nutritious to their body. And I think oftentimes they're like, well, I just saw a video on my— maybe I don't gotta go to church. So they're feeding themselves, which is still not nutritious.

They're eating a bunch of bags of Cheetos.

Exactly right. It's exactly— A

bunch of bags of Cheetos, but they're not sitting down and eating a 4 or 5 course meal.

Exactly. Because when you come to the house, that's what you get, right? The house, there's a fulfillment.

Fellowship, ministry, worship, praise, word, giving. It's all of it.

All of it.

You just can't do that on a reel.

Exactly. You just can't. That's what we see. And we, you know, we just kind of, we touched upon it this past Sunday. That's what we see the early church, they did. They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching, the breaking of bread, the fellowship, to prayer. Those are the things that happen in community. I'm not saying we can't do that on a Zoom call or, you know, from time to time hop on online.

I mean— And I do all that. I do that with my ministerial fellowship. Our only connection right now is through Zoom and virtual, 'cause they're all over America.

They're everywhere, yeah.

And so, like I said, I don't wanna be hypocritical. Of course not, yeah. But I believe 2 can be— I believe— here's what I believe. Virtual needs to be in addition to, not instead of.

That's good. That's good.

I think it's great when I can take great voices and get daily encouragements, some wisdom. Oh man, I ain't never thought about that. That guy's got something to

say.

And I add it to my spiritual life. But the core of my spiritual development is me belonging to a community of believers that I gather together with. And then everything else has to be something in addition to that. That is not happening. There are people that do it instead of. I've had people just tell me, I don't go to organized church anymore, I watch YouTube. I had them look me right in the face and tell me, I don't go anymore. Yeah. Well, that means there's no community. It means you don't give. That means you don't serve. That means you don't develop in that area. It means you don't develop interpersonal relationships. You don't receive from others, they don't receive from you. All these things are being miss because you stay home and watch YouTube.

Exactly. I think also the lie that was fed to a lot of people, Pastor, and you probably, you remember this probably better than I do, is that this is— sorry, let me, let me, let me say this. This is not a lie as in that we make up the church, right? Us as individuals coming together, we make up the church. But people now, I've, I've heard often people say, why do I need to go to church? I am the church, right? So then they say, I'm, I'm the church. There's no need to— well, you're— they—

You are the church, but you're not the house.

That's what I'm saying. Yeah, exactly.

You are the church, but you're not the house.

The house of God.

And we've been talking about the house here.

Exactly.

You know, you're no longer strangers and aliens, but you are members of the household of God. You are being built to become a spiritual temple in which God will dwell by his Spirit. He's bringing us, he's building us, and then he wants to live in us.

That's good, exactly.

And we are robbing Our communities, our neighborhoods, and our cities of those type of gatherings. Because according to Genesis 28 and Jacob, that gathering is the gate of heaven. So if heaven's going to open up to me, can heaven open up on a YouTube video? Yeah, I guess. I mean, I learn, I grow, I'm inspired, I'm taught, I'm discipled in some way. But do the heavens open up because I watched, you know, one of my favorite speakers on a video?

Yeah.

I can't answer that with certainty because the gathering— remember what I said, Jesus operated without measure.

Exactly. Yeah, go talk about that.

You got a measure. I've got— the Bible says we have measures. The Bible's very clear. Matthew 25, we have a measure of talent. To one he gave 5, to one he gave 2, to one he gave 1. The Bible says we have a measure of grace, Romans 12, in accordance with the gift.

The

Bible says we have a measure of gift. The Bible says we have a measure of faith. The Bible says I have everything in a limited form. Yep. But the Bible says he gave us apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers for many reasons, but the last thing he said, till we all reach unity in the faith and attain the full measure of the stature of Christ. So it is when we unify together, The measure that was on Jesus the man is released in Jesus the church. And so this coming together, as I'm understanding the Bible, can no longer be viewed casually. And I mean, it is— it's to me right now more casual than it's ever been. There are some of the strongest churches that America has ever known that are struggling attendance-wise right now. They're not struggling online. got tremendous online audiences. But I can name one off the top of my head, one of the largest churches in America, and now the building is about 30% full. And it hurts my heart to see that because also the people that you listen to online, who are their fathers?

Mm-hmm.

Who are their mentors? What tribe are they in? What is their doctrine? The Bible says we must be of sound doctrine. Doctrine. I've heard some of the craziest. I've heard things that, oh, I mean, just make me shudder. I'm like, where in the world did you get that? And I mean, speaking it, and you look down there and they got 700,000 followers, and they got 54,000 likes and 1,500 comments. And totally in error. Totally in it. Not even close to biblically accurate.

Yep, yep.

And taking everybody— see, you know, and here again, when everybody's an online pastor, you move the credentialing process, the vetting process, the filtering process. I went through a process to be a pastor.

Yeah.

I didn't just go out and say— there was no Lone Ranger ministry. I went through a process and my life was overseen by people to make sure doctrinally, character-wise, and everything else that, you know, it's time for you to be on the stage. But now you can get online and be self-proclaimed. That bothers me. That troubles me.

That makes me think of 2 things, 'cause the other day a friend of mine just posted like how there's this Instagram page that has just all they post is Bible verses. And they took a Bible verse, like quotation. They said Luke, whatever, chapter 2, verse 47, or whatever. But that verse did not exist in the scriptures, and people were liking it, saying amen. It was crazy. Like, it was just— people were reposting the heck out of it. It was going like— it was actually very, like, very viral, that post in itself. And, and it's the fact that people— it's a lot of people that are not— it's not that they have to be well-versed, what I'm saying, but they're not connected to a community, and that's their community where, well, I just got my verse of the day today, instead of going to a Bible app where they're, you know, something vetted, something correct. So in that, that's one. Second thing I was about. There's this young man that I've been kind of just walking through, and young, married, all that stuff. And this is crazy that we've been— we're talking about this right now because 2 weeks ago, a lot of the things he says is like, man, I feel so connected to Redemption. I love watching, you know, Pastor Ron online. He was like, I love listening to you and, and things like that, and I just feel like I'm full. But he came to service because he lives far away. He was able to come to service about 2, 3 weeks ago. The whole service he's crying. Whole service he's crying. I go over, I give him a hug, and I just pray with him. And then, and then he tells me, he was like, I don't get this at home.

Nope, nope. I know. I knew you were going to say that before you said it. He's going to say something along those lines. I knew it before you even said it. Listen, I saw a guy a while back. He said the Bible says whatever thou doest, doest quickly. And he was on— I mean, he had a lot of comments, a lot of likes, and he was wearing whatever thou doest, doest quickly. Do it, you know, and you need to stop the spirit of procrastination. That verse is when Judas was sitting at the table with Jesus and stuck his hand in the water.

In the water.

And Jesus said, whoever sticks his hand in the water, it's him. He's a devil. And they stuck their hand in the water at the same time, and Jesus looked at Judas and like, okay, you're gonna betray me. Whatever you're gonna do, let's get it over with. And this guy was breaking the spirit of procrastination. Whatever thou doest, do it quickly. Guys, do y'all understand this is happening? I mean—

Yeah, we have.

I went through years of Bible college. I went through years of theology to ground me in my faith and this, that, and the other. Am I totally biblically accurate? Of course not. But I just hear craziness with people that have had no training that have huge followings, huge followings, and people listen to everything they say and don't know any better. And I'm gonna tell you, there's a problem with that, 'cause if you— I have a thing, as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. So if I believe a lie, I live a lie.

Exactly.

I don't wanna live— the Bible says, make sure— what was it, what Jesus said? Make sure the light in you be not darkness. Make sure the knowledge you have is not a

lie.

Make sure the knowledge you have is not ignorance. And so I don't know, it's not an older guy bashing a younger generation's way, because I use it. But I don't like people who are in no way have been processed. Nobody's qualified, but you've been processed to be at a point where you can deliver information. You've been through a thing, you've been through somebody, you got some tenure, some time, some depth. Yeah. Your well has been deepened instead of just self-proclaimed and everybody believes it just 'cause they look at your followers and you got a huge following.

Exactly. Yeah, well, that, that's, that's two, that's two things in one because people, I mean, people can have a following yet they don't have a covering or they don't have the vetting process and all that.

Covering is unheard of. Because

all they did was grab a phone and say, you know, whatever. And, and, you know, and I've seen some people be sound and, and, you know, and God's really blessed their ministry and, you know, good for them. But, but the reality is, is more often than not, that's the—

More often than not, yeah. It's the opposite. I think that's the exception and not the norm.

Yeah.

And I, I especially hear all kind of stuff that's crazy about, you know, what God says about relationships and what God says about marriage. I sit there and I'm just like, where in the world did you get that? Where— you know, where— I mean, like, the worst marriage advice I've ever heard in my life. And, and they're, you know, telling me that's what God said. And then you got the others that are prophets. I— you know, they have, they have a prophet for They have a word for that day, and it's for everybody in the world. Yeah. You know that they just post it, and God said he's going to restore everything.

But did you see about that guy that like was talking about the second coming and stuff? And they put him on podcast, and he was going from one podcast to another because Jesus came to him and all that kind of stuff. And people were believing it. They were they were live on live for twenty-four hours because he had calculated the day. He was like this day at this hour you're going to watch it live, and we're going to disappear. This guy. is nowhere to be found now because of the fact that, like, it was fake, obviously. Yeah, but he— millions and millions of followers, millions of hundreds of thousands of people on this live waiting for him to, like, be caught up or raptured or whatever. And that just continues to happen, continues to happen. But a lot of it goes back to this.

See, if everybody was grounded and rooted in a legitimate house, that would filter out, I'm not kidding, 75 to 80% of that stuff. Exactly. But when you're not connected to a solid, healthy house, then you can be carried away with anything like that. There's another person, very popular, and here's the thing. I believe this person is a good dude. I don't know him, but I sense sincerity. But Paul talked about people being passionate or having zeal, zealous, but no knowledge. Yeah. And he has really been motivating a lot of people with, you know, there's not much time, there's not much time. I mean, it's a real motivating fact. I don't believe that to be true at all. You know, everybody talks about their charts. And I went to Daniel Rev class in Bible school. I saw the charts and the dates and the kings and the toes and the horns and the horses. I've seen it all. This one statement Jesus said, until the gospel of the kingdom— not the gospel, the gospel of the kingdom. There are 2 parts to the gospel. There's Jesus the person, there's Jesus the Word. One prepares you for heaven and one prepares you for earth. And until the gospel of the kingdom has been preached to the whole earth, only then the end will come.

That's good.

Okay. I can go to a church and the church has never heard the kingdom. I know the world has never heard the kingdom because the church don't know the kingdom. And the Bible says from Jesus himself, written in red, take all your charts, but until the gospel of the kingdom has fallen on every ear, it will not be the end of time. This guy is motivating millions. It's time. It's time. It's time. It's time. It's time. If Jesus wants to come tomorrow, great. That'd save me from a lot of problems. I got a lot of stuff that I don't have to worry about no more. But that's not what I see my Bible saying. But here's the thing, these— there's no oversight, there's no covering, it's unchecked, and certainly the followers have no biblical depth whatsoever. And for a guy who's concerned, the Scripture is the truth of God, and the truth will set you free. So anything other than the truth will bind you. Only truth frees you. So if it's not truth, it doesn't have a freeing effect, it has a restricting effect.

Restricting, that's good.

And so— That's real good. These are the things from somebody who's been in it a while. I use social media, but it cannot be the house of God's replacement. You've gotta discipline yourself to get— another thing that has nothing to do with social media, I see, you know, travel ball and tournaments and everything, it's almost like there's this undercurrent siege on Sunday.

Yeah.

My generation would not even have attempted to have a baseball tournament on Sunday. They would not even have tried, because nobody would have come. I don't care if I'd have been major league quality, my daddy— I'd have never made it on Sunday. I'd have been at church. So I was talking to one person who said, well, I'd do it. We hadn't been to church in about 4 months, but our son is a good ballplayer. They play on Sundays and we're trying to invest in his future. I said, you better invest in his future in some other areas besides baseball. You better teach him the value of the house of God and going to church and being in community and help him grow in his faith.

That's good.

And so here again, there's this siege on everything being a deterrent to assemble. And I think it's lazy. I think it's casual because we'll assemble for anything else. We'll assemble for a ballgame.

Yeah.

We'll assemble for a party. We'll assemble for somebody's birthday.

Well,

I mean, I can go on and on and on why we'll get together, but we want to get together so God can live there. It is the way that God inhabits the earth.

Inhabits. He'll dwell.

It is the way he leaves from heaven and comes down and is amongst his people and provides a gateway to heaven where 2 realities can meet. The sick can meet the healing, and the bound can meet the free. freedom, and the chains can meet release, and the lack can meet prosperity. And it's where the two— it's the gateway of heaven. It connects these two realities. But God does it in an assembly of people. He doesn't do it on a computer.

That's good.

So, I don't know. Am I being too—

No, that's good, Pastor.

Am I being old school? You can tell

everybody. No, because I very much believe the same thing, because the reality is is that convenience right now in, in America specifically is overpowering the hunger and the desire that people have to know who God is. Because the reality is, is they feel as if they're getting to know God on different platforms.

The last 15 years of church has been built on convenience. Well, we, we don't do— we don't build buildings your size, Pastor Ron. Why? We, we don't build 4,000-seat buildings. We build We have, you know, 800-seat buildings, and we have a whole bunch of services 'cause we don't want people to have to be in a crowd. We want people to be convenient. We want them to get their kids checked in faster. It's all convenience.

Yeah.

So, but when I have 8 services, God has to move in this amount of time. You see what I'm talking about? It's wonderful. There's so many things that convenience drive

make

Make my flesh comfortable.

Exactly. We can't do that.

Don't stretch me. Don't challenge me. And I'm gonna tell you, I don't see anywhere where Jesus came to make me comfortable. He came and disrupted everything.

Yes, he did. Yes, he did.

Jesus was a tremendous disruptor. He disrupted families. He disrupted relationships. He disrupted brother and sister. He disrupted people's moral code. He disrupted religion versus relationship. He disrupted the way people Gave. He said it ain't adultery if you do it; it's adultery if you think it. I mean, it ain't murder if you do it; it's murder if you think. Disrupted everything.

Yeah.

And now, but let's make them comfortable.

Let's make them convenient. No, Pastor.

Ah. I don't

know if you saw. I did a video on the on the because we were having amazing, beautiful, powerful worship moment. And then I went up and I said like,

when was this?

There's a couple when you were you on East Coast and I said. said, it doesn't— you may ask yourself, it doesn't take all that. Does it take all that? And I was like, look, can I put it in practical terms? I said, people pay money to go experience a man in a concert. I said, I have nothing against it. You want to go do that, go ahead. But I said, people will jump, cry, do all that for that man, but we won't do it for this. And I, and I just started—

And that man can do nothing for you.

That's exactly—

He can't do anything for you.

And in the comments, people were like, it doesn't take all that. You're Doing their emotions, and I mean, I even took the time to reply. I said, "You they people get the same thing in a concert," and they're like, "Exactly my point." I said, "Well, but the reality is, is this is life-changing though. This is what something

Jesus said: If you don't do all that, the rocks will cry.

Cry out. That's exactly. Come on, man.

He says, "If you don't do all of it, these rocks will start screaming."

Yeah.

The woman with the alabaster box.

Everything.

Life. She took her 401, and many of them think that she was a prostitute. The price she paid for what was in that box, that was a real price. And she went in there and poured all she had. You can't just stand on row 7 and clap.

Yeah.

And one of these. You can't give me a golf course clap. and a low praise. You gotta fill your lungs with air, and you've got to absolutely express your praise and worship and gratitude toward God. And that, here again, this is not social media, but the casual approach to God.

Yeah.

The casual, laid-back, lazy approach to God. It's very difficult to get people to give. I'm gonna tell you what I've about come to on the giving thing. I think people don't trust it. And this is what I would say to that. How can I trust God with eternity and can't trust him with money? Now, I'm gonna hinge the afterlife that what he says is true.

Yeah.

I only got one shot at it. If I get it wrong, it's gonna be a long afterlife. So, I got one shot at it, but Jesus says he's the way. So, I'm gonna hinge forever on Jesus and that he's got it, but I can't even trust him with a tithe. I don't understand that. And I really get to the place I think that, I hear you, Pastor Ron, but I just don't know that I believe it and I don't trust it, and I think I can do better with what I got than he can. And that blows my mind. And, you know, sometimes these things can be viewed as old school, but sometimes it can be just the fact is it's gotten lukewarm and there needs to be a call to repentance. It's just a lukewarmness and it needs to, it needs to be called out and it needs to be called to repentance. Because like I have said, there are some deals with some wells that need to be redug and some bridges that need to be rebuilt. And, uh,

can I, can I say something real quick?

You can say anything you want. That's why I got you here.

I was just really thinking, like, just the casualness. And I think, I mean, I've lived a life that, like, I feel like I've made a lot of sacrifices. So, so I pray the Lord just kind of backs me up in this when I, when I share it and when people listen. The reality is, is we don't end up where we find ourselves. It begins with the decision. And what I mean by that is David was casual in Samuel chapter 11 when he stayed home. The Bible says that he stayed home when the kings went out to battle,

battle the war.

So he stayed home. The tiny decision of staying home—

I know where you're going—

led to that decision. And little by little, then he went to his balcony, then he saw Bathsheba, then he asked who was it, then he brought her over. Then one,

he stayed where he shouldn't have stayed.

Come on, say

Ended up going where he shouldn't have gone, saw what he shouldn't have saw, thought what he shouldn't have thought, and ended up doing what he shouldn't have done. Because of one decision. Everybody else is pressing and fighting, and you're lazy.

The convenience.

And so I, you know, I didn't— I hadn't thought about that analogy, but that's a great analogy for what I'm talking about. Well, guys, you know, even if we're in a good conversation, I could go on and talk about this a long time. You know what? You know what? As we— as I tie it up, Y'all hear me say this all the time. I did. I took a whooping from the older generation when I was like 27, 28, 30, and God was really starting to break my life open. God was starting to bless. I was unorthodox in my methods. I'd do anything. I just didn't care. I'd do anything. And I caught hell. from older guys, you can't do that. You can't do it that way. You know, you're leading people. And I did. I remember in those days like, man, I'm gonna be 60 one day. I'm gonna be 70 one day. I don't wanna be the guy turning around and just whipping all the young guys coming up. And it's not meant to be that at all. It is meant to call people higher.

Higher, yes, that's good.

It's not go back and do what I did 20 years ago. That's not what I'm saying. Do your social media, do your marketing, be savvy, be relevant, be hip, I don't care. But when there is a lethargy and a lukewarmness in the core of your soul, I feel like as a father in the faith, I need to call that out.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Amen.

And say that there needs to be a healthy rebirth and genesis of a true relationship with God to where anything he wants you to do is not a sacrifice to you, it's a blessing. Yeah. I want people to— I do. I want to build a house for God that is such a gateway of heaven that people are scared to miss something. They're scared to miss something. I don't— we'll go to Disney World, but we're going to come back Saturday. 'Cause I'm scared I'll miss something. I don't know that many of those exist, but I am determined to find out what kind of house does God live in and build it.

Amen.

And so anyway, well, we got a lot of stuff going on. If you're hearing me and you are within one of the congregations or the virtual Congregation of Redemption, we've got LXP next week on the East Coast. Looking forward to that. Myself, Darris Daniels, Russell Johnson, J.B. I can't wait for that. And I'm doing the night service, and I got a word. I'm dealing with this gate of heaven at LXP.

Let's do it.

I got some stuff I hadn't said. I'm saving for that. But I'm dealing with this gate of heaven at LXP, a church that opens up the heavens. What does it look like? And we got the draft this Sunday where all these wonderful new people that say, I want my gifts to be used in the house for God. That's this coming Sunday. So we love you guys. Hope will be back real soon. Pray for her. She's got a lot going on. I've never seen my baby doll work harder. I love her. She's so diligent. She's caring for her mom and dad. We've never had that before this year like that. And she's the primary caretaker. And she's, you know, she's a wealth manager. Yeah. She's in insurance. She's a co-pastor. She's a life coach. She's a Come Higher Women's— I mean, she just does it all. She's amazing. And she still makes me feel loved and makes my house warm. So, but anyway, I told her today, I said, I know you gotta be tired, I'm praying for you. And she's the life of this podcast.

Yep.

And she's a lot prettier than me or him, either one. So anyway, we love you guys. And as far as I know, she'll be back taping with me next week. So hope to see you at any of our services. Until next time, this is Ron and Hope, Unfiltered, Real, Raw, and Relevant. God bless you.