Ron + Hope: Unfiltered - Manly Men with Guest Pastors Matt Jackson and Duaine Johnson

Well, hey, guys, this is Ron and Hope. Real Ron, Relevant. It's unfiltered, and I think you can tell I'm run. But they are not Hope, thank God. They're not Hope. And the fact is, she's much more pleasant to look at, and she's the life of the party. But don't click out, because I think if nothing else, the topic, you know, might hold you in here today. We want to talk about masculinity. You know, get your defense mechanisms down. Don't be easily offended. We're not pushing a political party. We are talking about a subject, a subject which is now front and center to just about everything. And I think still a lot of Christians are scared to talk about it because they don't want to alienate anybody. We're a people that love. We're people of grace. We want everybody to feel welcome. I don't want anybody to feel like they can't come to church. But at the same time, we know that with God there are standards. We know with God that there are laws that govern life. They govern the universe, they govern marriage, they govern relationships, they govern money, they govern everything. And while I'm supposed to get my arms around everybody, supposed to hold high a standard that God blesses, the blessing of God comes with that standard. So it can be pretty tough. So we're just going to chat, and we're going to kind of let you in on our chat. This is Pastor Matt. Matt's our student pastor and has been for some time here. And of course, Pastor Duane. He's over our entire ministerial fellowship, has been for a while. And so I just handpicked them and said, let's come in and talk about this topic. So, like, share, subscribe, get somebody in here, text them, say, you need to watch this thing, whatever. But for about the next half hour or so, this is not scripted. We're going to come off the hip. Some of it's going to be stories, some of it's going to be opinions, going to be illustrations. But I just want to talk about, you know, biblical masculinity versus the culture that we now see with men. Any opening comments you guys have? Because I'm going to kind of start it in the Bible and then we go from there. But I just wonder if y' all had an opening comment about the topic in general.

I want to toss it to Matt, too, here in just a minute, but I'm excited about the conversation. I think any type of topic with this much weight that the church doesn't address and have some kind of voice in will just find its way in a definition that it was never intended to have. And sometimes there's a fear that because of the political tension in our nation and around the world, to really address these types of topics. And I think it's powerful just to put the voice of reason and wisdom and hopefully spark God's counsel on an issue and something that helps us kind of grow and develop as men. And we all need this. This is a topic that is sensitive, but we all need this to develop and grow and create healthy definitions.

Yeah. With the students, especially if they don't know their identity, they don't know the purpose that they're living. And I have an examp of a student that started transitioning into. She's a girl, and she started changing into a boy because the school system and her friends told her, hey, I think that you probably relate more to being a boy. And she was agreeing with that. And so she started changing into a boy. Even got a new name that she gave herself a boy name.

So real life Chandler hormone changes everything.

She was going to go there.

Gotcha. Gotcha.

And. But she dressed like a boy and cut her hair like a boy and had a new name. And then she said, I'm going to go to church. And she came to church with some of our other families, and they brought her in and started hearing the messages, Pastor Ron's messages, hearing adult messages that go straight to the heart. And she said, I want to be a girl. And she told the family that she came with, will you help me? I want to go back. And her family was totally against it. They said that church, they're doing something to you. They were mad at her, and they started persecuting her. And her friends at school started persecuting her. And she's the only one at school that's standing up for herself because of this. So this is a great issue.

That's handy, man.

It is.

That hurts my heart. You know, standing against. Standing against that kind of wind blowing in your face has got to be tough. I don't know the person that you're speaking of. Of course, you have hundreds of students, but that's where we are, man. I mean, let's just get a reality check. You know, forget 20 years ago, five years ago, we weren't having this conversation. So what has happened? Everything's progressed quick. And this isn't the thing about transgender and all this as we're going back to biblical masculinity. But let me. Let me just start there Let me start there. Here. Okay, let's say I'm not a Bible guy. Let me disarm that. Well, you're Christians. I expect you to criticize it. Take Bible out of it. Let's say Ron Carpenter has never met Christ and I've never opened a Bible. Here's the problem I have with that being taught and being made available to a kid or really anybody. Let's say a woman walks in. Or let's say a man walks in a doctor's office and says, I really feel like I'm a woman. I don't feel like I'm a man. I feel like I'm a woman. And, yeah, we need to get you started on these hormones. We need to start destroying this in your body. We need to start building this up in your body. You can have these series of operations, and they can come in and say that and have the opportunity to do that because they feel like they're a woman. Here's my problem with that. I can't walk in hospital and say, you know, doctor, I feel like I have cancer. Well, let's split you open.

Diagnosis.

Let's start operating on you, and let's do this, this. And maybe if we do these five things, if you go in there and you say something, there is a series of protocols that you have to go through before they'll put one thing in your body and before they'll touch you with any type of procedure. Protocols that they are mandated that they have to go through by law. And yet you can walk in and say, I feel like I'm a woman. And they'll start all this series of procedures that will change your life forever. And there's some lines you cross. There ain't no going back. And so when I hear the word feeling, that's psychological. Feelings are not physical. Feelings are psychological. Let me take you through a set of protocols to test those feelings before I start anything on your body. Do you see what I'm talking about? And I'm not a medical guy. I don't know if doctors may want to chime in, but the fact is I can just feel this way, and we chart a course. It to me, seems so out of whack with medical integrity that, first of all, let me see if not your body is off, but maybe your feelings are off. Let me have some time to counsel you. Let me have some time to see if there's trauma. Let me see if there's been some type of things in life that have led to this confusion. So I will tell you this, Matt. We were talking before the podcast started, and me and Duane both agreed you probably could take the whole podcast being a student pastor, because you're dealing with a generation, you know, even your generation and my generation are still kind of looking at this thing going, what the heck's going on? But when you're in there with the kids that are dealing with this thing full force in public school system, right in front of them, identity in the Bible is everything. And if you lose it, everything gets blurry. The first thing God said to Jesus is he let him know who he was. You're my son, this is my son. What does he tell us over and over in the Bible ad nauseam, from Matthew, the New Testament to Revelation, who we are in Christ, who we are in Christ, who we are in Christ, over and over, trying to solidify an identity. What did Nebuchadnezzar do when he wanted to take the three Hebrew children and turn them into Babylonians? He took their name and he changed their name. And so if we change names and create gender confusion, then you have a whole generation of people that don't know how to fulfill purpose, because purpose and identity will always parallel each other. You see what I'm talking about? Yes, sir. Comments on that?

Yeah. And I think the crazy thing is now it's being nurtured. Like in my generation, it was an ideology early, it was an opportunity. You might have a feeling it was there, but there wasn't a sustained system and culture and a push that nurtured you into some kind of feeling that really is not sustainable. And the enemy's attack was always on the seed. So if I can come after the definition of man, I can mess the entire thing up, all of it. I can inject into the entire system if I can get that guy to think he's that or this. If I can adjust you at the nature level, I can affect everything else you're naturally supposed to influence. Now everything's confused. And so I think he just said, let me target them at the most base level. And that is even my gender identity. It's unnatural. And it just creates this confusion. Now nothing makes sense at all. And I think that's the next pandemic we're in, because now you've got mental health crisis on the rise. That's a podcast we've done where, again, you affect me at the nature level, nothing makes sense anymore.

And here again, go back to the Bible. Nature determines behavior. You know, if you have a sinful nature, you're a sinner. If you have a godly nature, you want to try to do the right thing. And so not only does God constantly tell us who we are, but you have been partakers of a divine nature. You're of another nature. I mean, God goes at length to try to let you know how radical your salvation experience is. Why? To create a security in who you are.

I think that it's so crazy that students are not allowed to go get tattoos until they're certain. Until they reach adulthood, they're not allowed to drink alcohol because there is an age that the society that we live in deems as you're not ready for this. And before they're even turning 13, 14, they're allowed to change the hormones in their body and physically alter things. I think it's just a very interesting state that once you remove the biblical standard of what something is and what something's not, then you got psychology, because it's so true. The Bible says, as a man thinks in his heart, so is he. So if we can get these students, the enemy knows to think in their heart that they're a different image than what God has for them. They'll spend their whole life being bent or broken or chasing the wrong things or doing the wrong things.

And there's a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end, the end thereof, is destruction. Here's what we're with the kids. We're not seeing the end. We're in the process, in the end thereof. There's going to be people saying, omg, yeah.

What have we done?

We have messed up an entire generation of young people.

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The masculinity thing, I want people to know, you know, the rise of the feminist movement, I think had its positives. I think it definitely had its negatives. I think it arose out of men properly not honoring women. And, you know, I believe in women's right to work. I believe in women's right to vote. I don't believe if the man works the same exact job as a woman, the man needs to get paid twice as much. I don't believe in those things. So I'm not taking a movement and throwing it out the window. Some of these things needed to happen. And thank God for strong women that stood up, stood in the face of it and said, these things need to change. Now, however, all you've got to do is twist something a little bit, and years later, it gets way off course. I've done that in a sermon where I was facing the crowd and I pivoted like six inches. Well, if I keep walking instead of hitting those double doors, I'm going to end up way over there somewhere, miles down. But I only pivoted six inches. But if I walked a mile, I'm a quarter of a mile away from my other destination. I think with these movements, that's what happens. They start out probably with a real pure intent, and then somebody comes in and twists them and pivots them just a little bit. And what I have seen is masculinizing. Is that a word? Masculinizing of women? It hadn't been the rights of women. We've moved past the rights of women. That's a good point. And gone to the masculinizing of women. And we've gone to the emasculating. Now, here's what Ron Carpenter is seeing. I do not have Google Analytics data, Okay? I have not done a poll. Here's what Ron Carpenter is seeing. And me and my wife do very large marriage conferences that recently we've started taking them on the road. Here's what I'm seeing. The woman. He won't be the man. He won't. He won't drive the car. He won't do manly things. I drive him around. He won't take initiative. He has no vision. And I'm like, somewhere back There we pivoted and here we are. So you have the demasculinization of men. You have men that are soft. You have men that really probably did not know how to perform a manly role. Some of that might be the man's fault, but a lot of it is. Our culture has cultivated this. And so I wanted to get your thoughts on it from what you're seeing with the broad spectrum of churches you deal with. But then it always kind of goes back to Matt because Matt's got the emerging generation. Yeah, he does. Coming up. Let me go to Matt first. Are you seeing the emasculation of male kids? Are they becoming more effeminate? Do they understand their role?

You know what's interesting is I think the students are actually. They can tell something is a little off.

Wow.

But they're very accepting, as they should accept and love all people. And so they're actually. They have masculine. The thing that I'm seeing is really in the next generation, the college years, when they're young adults, when the ladies have become so self sufficient that there's no space for the man to step into any sort of role that she already provides for herself, she already tells herself how great she is, she builds herself. I have nothing to give her. In fact, I am deficient because young ladies are actually more mature than men for a while. And so where do we go? How do we become a man? How do we step into a role where a woman is willing to take a step back because that's part of her armor and her defense is actually taking an offensive stance that I don't need you. And so that's what we're kind of dealing with in the transition.

That's a great, great point.

No, I totally agree. And it's like, what, what is a man? What is that? What does that look like in the marriage? When you're self sufficient, you have your own home, you've got your. In the past, let's go back, we talked about movements. Let's go back to my father's generation. Let's go back to the generation before that. I think it was very clear what made a man a man. You went to work, you took care of the family, you provided, you had food on the table.

You were dependable.

You were dependable.

Yes.

You brought security into a risky society, put it on the line to do what you had to do to make it happen for your family. You came home a lot of times, the mother, the wife would take care of the kids, would cook the meals, would take care of the family, whether you like it or not. With the feminist movement, it was clearly defined. This is what a man does. This is how a man functions in modern society. And now it's gone so far. I just think, okay, you want me to be the man? Well, what is it? You drive yourself, you work yourself, Maybe make double than me. You know, in our culture now, God.

Wish home made double than me, Please go up, Jesus. But. But I'm going, you know, what is it?

And then if we could get real controversial, this talking about masculinity. You talk about just the base nature of a man and sexual desires. A lot of times where I'm from, you get it so easy. The need, the gratification of the sexual desire that a man has for a woman. You get it before you have a job, before you've matured, before you know how to take responsibility.

He didn't go down another road.

That's when the woman takes on the manly role. She thinks, I'm supposed to have sex. I'm supposed to determine. I'm the one that uses you. And girls, when they play that game, they always lose because the guys are really using them still.

Yes, the guys are always getting the better end of that deal. Always getting. I try to tell girls that, yeah, guys are always getting the better end of that deal. And, man, y' all have both brought up great points. Let me. There was a woman in front of me in Hope a while back, extremely successful woman that went on one of these I don't need a man rants and did it in front of Hope. Well, Hope's never at a loss for words. Hope is a very submissive wife. I know people might see her and, like, man, I bet Ron really has a hard time handling that. She's strong, but she's very submissive and knows the biblical role. And I appreciate that about her because I want a strong woman. You'd have to be strong to be married to me. But she went on this rant, and I could tell Hope wasn't going to stay quiet. I was just waiting for it to come out. And Hope said, I like being taken care of. Hope said, I like knowing that he's always got a plan. I like knowing that no matter what we get into, he's going to scratch his way out. She just started. She said, I like knowing the stability that he brings to my life. I like knowing if I have a bad day, he's going to have a good day. And when she started talking like that, it kind of shut this woman down a Little bit and took her guard down. Because some of that is just a defense mechanism, I think, out of unhappiness. Because the fact is, I think men and women were meant for each other. And I think men and women were meant to complement each other. And I think, like I've always said, when God reached into the ground and made Adam, he never reached back into the ground again. He reached inside of Adam because everything was in him. So what he took out of Adam, Adam no longer possesses, Eve possesses, but Eve no longer has what Adam has. But when you bring them together, man, it can be something really powerful. Let me define man biblically. Some of you guys want to go on YouTube or something. Years ago, I preached what makes a man. I don't know, 2012, 2013, something like that. It's on there. The word for God is abba. The Hebrew word for man is ab. So you got abba, like Big Daddy, and you got ab. It means source, Sustainer. Source and sustainer. Men knew how the long time, for a long time to be the source. They knew how to make babies. This is source and sustainer. So in other words, biblically, man has been given the name. It can come out of me, and then I can turn around and support it. That's a man. I can make it. A woman means man with a womb. So woman, man with a womb. She incubates it. She doesn't create it, she incubates it. A woman is an incubator, period. You give her a seed, she'll give you a baby. You give her a house, she'll give you a home. Okay? You give her difficulty, she'll give you hell. She's a bank. She's an incubator. Give it to her and she'll give it back with interest. That's the way she's built. She's a carrier. So source and sustainer. So I likened in that teaching series, and I'm going to let y' all talk, I'm not going to dominate it, but I likened to it in the building that was in at the building set, almost 5,000 people and had these massive beams about 30 yards apart from each other. Just massive. I mean, I remember the engineer told me, he said, you could hang a car from every one of these beams. And I told people, I said, you know, everybody looks at the lights and the LED boards, and everybody looks at dry fog going off, and everybody's listening to the sound system. I said, and I walked over to that beam and I just hit it. And it's just an old Red beam. I said, you know, there's thousands of people in here. Nobody walked in this building. They said, man, that is a great beam.

Yeah, underappreciated.

But you know what that beam is doing? Nothing is going to hurt you while you're in here, because I can hold it.

That's good.

And men were meant to be sung and unsung heroes that life came out of them, that the woman incubated. Then together they came with the fruit. And the man would say, I can create it, but I can do what is necessary to sustain it. The woman has been given the name Parakletos, which is the same name as the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is a helper. So I told my wife one time, I said, when I holler help, two people are supposed to show up. The Holy Ghost and my wife. So when you get to the biblical concept, God knows best. He knows best. How far away, how far off are we? How do we get by it? And I'm not throwing y' all that y' all have to answer. I just want to ask some questions.

Yeah, we're far off.

I think we are, too. We're far off. I think we're a long way off. And I don't know know if we're closing the gap.

I don't either. And again, what's gaining momentum, it's rearing its head now. And the. And the scary thing to me is it's still in its infancy. And when I say it, I'm talking about just, again, the emasculation of men, the masculinity that's come into female, and the gender neutrality, the non binary, just. It's in its seeming infancy. I mean, it's just found a generation to root. And so that. That is. Makes me a little bit afraid because it just got started. But I think conversations like this affect it. So I think we're far away, but it is our willingness to have these types of discussions that can cut it at its root and redeem a generation to back what it's supposed to be.

I mean, I. So today there was Pat Skyler, my wife. She was upset with me that I had left the drawers open.

Your wife gets upset with you? She, She.

I know it's hard to believe. I am pretty close to perfect, but once in a while, something will happen. And she. She's not here right now. She'll get mad. But she left the drawer open a little bit. I did. And she got mad. She goes, are you gonna close that drawer? I noticed. And she goes, I noticed that You've been letting the drawers stay open. It was one day. One, two day. One day. And I was so, like, so in. It's gotten into me. We're the same. That's what the world is saying. Men, women, we're the same. You know. And so I was like, well, if we're the same, then how come you can't close the door? In fact, I will.

Biblical.

We are one flesh. So really, you should shut the door.

We did that.

And I think that's what's happening in America and with the youth is that the roles are so messed up. Their views of God are so messed up. You don't know how to allow the Holy Spirit to help you. You don't know what it means to have Heavenly Father as source and sustainer. And that's why we have this huge gap, because no one wants to admit that there are differences.

Yeah, I've been created in Christ Jesus for good works. Ephesians 2:10. So he created me. He's my source. But then he turns around and says, I can commit all things to him because he works all things out for my good. He turns around and says, I created you, but I also hold you.

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I told my son recently, my oldest son who was just having. He's having a bad day. And many people know Chase. And I looked at him, I said, I'm your best friend. I said, I'm your dad, but I'm your best friend. That's what I told him. I said, and in every one of those trials, I looked at him and said, I was right there with You. And he looked at me in tears and he said, yeah, I know you were. I said, I was right there with you. And I said, I'm with you in this one, too. And I said, I'll be doing that as long as I'm here on this earth. Here again, going back, understanding my responsibility. I brought it into the earth, sustain it. And so I will ride with this thing until I am no more.

Can I speak to something on that topic? Maybe a little angle on that because it reminds me of a scripture in Isaiah. I think it's chapter five. And he says, therefore hell has opened wide its mouth because the honorable men are famished.

Honorable men are famished.

They're not dead, they're just starving.

Starving.

We're not feeding the honor in men again. And you said that. And I go, if I was going through that, would I get that call? We've got a fatherless generation.

Everybody desires that call. Yeah. Whether they would admit it or not, ache for it. Whether they would admit it or not, they desired that call.

But you had, and I hate to give the enemy any credit, but in the master plan of the enemy, you had this strategy to create this agenda right after a massive fatherless generation existed. So it's this idea, you know, I think about what Paul said. Before you become fatigued or faint, imitate those who, through faith and patience. Sometimes when you're in fatigue, you just need somebody to watch who made it through a situation.

That was my next point. I was going to, but keep going.

See.

So you got a generation who's got all of these. I got a feeling so I can change my gender. I've got all of these things that are telling me it's okay. Maybe you should dress like a girl when you're three and four and five. And then I got no man. You know, in some houses, two women are raising the boy and nurturing them to become that. And I don't know how far we want to go there, but I think about just the fatherlessness of it. Where you had a generation who didn't have it or did have it, and they were the source, but not the sustainer.

So you got the fatherless generation. Now you have an identityless generation. Why? Because the father creates identity.

The father creates identity.

That's what the father does.

Look back to, to clarify my identity.

The father creates out of you. You are my son. I don't care who you think you are. I don't care who they say you are. That's good. You are my son. And so the father always creates the identity. I'm trying to figure out if I want to open this next can right here or not. So I'm sitting here. Any comments on that before I open this next topic?

I was just thinking about how Paul said something that would be politically incorrect by saying that the woman, the Bible.

Says a lot of political incorrect and.

That the woman is the weaker ve and that would be offensive to a lot of women hearing from an American lens. And I was just thinking about how I have to be taught how to be a husband, a good enough husband to where my wife is willing to be weaker so that I can help her. And what I have to do, who do I have to look at? What examples do we have to look at to see this is what a father does? I remember you saying something to Chase when he became a father. You told him, chase, remember all the times I was there for you, all the things I did for you, stayed up late for you and helped you and everything. He goes, and then you said, that's you now.

That's you.

And that always stuck with me. And now that I have a young son, I was thinking of all the things my dad did for me or all the good men that I saw around me. And I'm like, I have to be that for my son. And that's just a realization that came upon me.

Two things right here. I went to a church a while back and visited. I was not speaking. I went to visited because I was friends with the guy and he was having a guest speaker. I want you to come and listen to the guest speaker and we'll take care of you. I'd love to see you. I'm like, you know what? I'm going to be in the area, I'm going to do it. Large church, very well known, large staff. I went up and he started introducing me to his staff. And those particular staff were mostly guys. And I went up and went to shake their hand. And every one of them is like a wet noodle. Every one of them, it was like a wet noodle. And so you got to understand, I'm a gunslinger. So, you know, sometimes I have to learn when to hold my peace or when to speak. I'm not a mean person, but I don't mind speaking my mind. And I got about five rows down and I had all these little limp by guys and I looked at one of the guys, said, shake my hand, man, shake my hand. And I literally sat there and taught those guys how to shake a man. I backed back up to the other four or five and shook their hands. Now, I was playing. We were laughing, but I was trying to prove a point. When you go up and shake a man's hand, it ain't supposed to feel like a fish. Yeah, right. Shake the man's hand. Look them in the eye. You know, manly things y' all got you talking about. The Bible says, we are living epistles read by all men. So you got. You said something, go where I want to go next. And we'll take in the final few minutes we got about seeing it. I think the way we close the gap is we got to have some models. It's got to be seen. You're not going to close the gap with a podcast. You're not going to close the gap with writing another book. I don't think where you close the gap is when you can see it. What has happened in my life that has blown me away. If I could tell you the amount of people, especially those that we won to Jesus through outreach programs that had very, very feeble home lives, very primitive home life, if they had a home life at all, who have come back years later and said, man, I was watching every move you make. I watched how you touched your wife. I watched how you spoke to your wife. I watched how you would always pause and let her get in front of you. I watched you opening the cart door. I watched how you wouldn't let her carry bags. You got them out of her hand. Because the Bible doesn't just say she's the weaker vessel. It says, honor her as the weaker vessel. If the woman sees your service to her as an act of honor and not an act of weakness, pity. Do you see what I'm saying? I'm not doing this because you can't do it for yourself. I told people, I said, hope with me or around me or at church, has never parked a car in 30 years. I go park. If she's by herself, she's going to have to. But, you know, she don't drive. I drive and I let her out and I go park the car. Can she park a car? Sure, she can park a car. Has nothing to do with that. It has to do with I'm constantly making a statement to her that I honor you. I'll walk across the three parking lots, but I want you to go in and get out of the rain. It's not that she can't do it.

Yes, sir.

But it's not a statement of weakness. It's honor. You know, And I think the women can be Won by honor. Because honor, I don't care who you are. Feels good.

Yeah, it does. Yeah.

Honor feels good. When I walk into a room and I'm disrespected, it feels awful. When I walk into a room and I'm honored, I'll stay in that room all day, you know, and so men, I would speak to some of you about, you know, doing things, not trying to put her in a place subject to you, but doing things to make her feel great and make her feel value. And that goes back to your first statement that I thought was great that I hadn't thought about. Then she will allow you to make space because you're right. A woman who's got everything, what do I do? But I think when they feel how honor feels, they'll step back and let you have room in their life to begin to maybe bring a role in. Up until that time, they've never been able to enjoy what say you.

Can I say something really quick?

Absolutely.

I think that that's why men don't become men is because they stay boys. Because the women are so motherly and they're so self sufficient, they don't let the boys grow into men in some of the relationships. And another thing I just want to put out there, Pastor Ron lives it out. Not only do I see Pastor Ron and like, how to treat my wife and how to honor my wife and how he stands up when Pastor Hope comes into the room and how he always makes her. She is always so blessed by Pastor Ron whenever she comes in his presence. My W is watching that too.

And she tells me, you need to stop making so many jokes.

Do you see how Pastor Ron talked about Pastor? I was like, I'm joking and that's the boy in me. And she was actually calling me higher to be, but everyone's watching. And thank you for being a good example to us.

I wasn't fishing for a compliment. I was just saying that. So, you know, yesterday I did a podcast with another gentleman and he was talking about, you know, this season in my life, does he see me entering a fatherly role in ministry? And I said, it's funny you would say that. I said, I have as many people call me dad or pops as they call pastor, especially when I go back to the redemption days where we would bring the kids in on the buses and minister to them. When I go back to them days, I'm not pastor, I'm Dad. And I said, yeah, there is this calling the fathers back to the sons and sons back to the fathers so I'm having to be really, really mindful of the fact that I don't know if they're listening to what I'm saying, but, man, they're watching everything I'm doing everything. I mean, they come back. I remember that time when you were out there and I saw you and you were walking across, you know, the parking lot.

I don't even remember.

And I'm like, man, I had no idea nobody was watching me. And they remembered the color of the shirt I was wearing. And they remember and I'm sitting there. But you know what? There's going to have to be some model men step up. Let me hit this one more time, and I'll let you guys close. This might be hard. It's not political, it's biblical. As long as, as Adam was feeding everybody, the world was right. But when Eve had to turn around and start feeding Adam, it went downhill quick. And men, we can't have a generation where we are forcing the females to turn back around and be our source and be our sustainer. When Adam was put there to care, to till the ground, to work it and to provide. But when she took the apple and fed him everything, everything imploded. And so we're not talking about a political agenda. We're not talking about sexism. We're talking about the biblical model for maleness, femaleness, how to run a home, how to understand identity, how to understand purpose. And somebody's got to have these conversations. Yeah, last comments.

Absolutely. And what you're talking about, it reminds me of biblically, when you start to look at the state of people. I think Romans starts to talk about, and they did that which became unnatural. And that's a reverse of nature. Even the sustaining aspect of it, it's a reverse of nature. And when God puts principles, patterns and protocols in place, it's to sustain the thing that he made. And when that is attacked, everything falls by the wayside. And Matt says something that I was going to say in regards to how do we bridge this gap? We raise the standard, we redefine it, we model it. In our everyday life, we find ways to exemplify this. Before God gave man, woman, character, in my likeness, in my image, purpose, work and assignment, presence, the voice of God. These things were standards that the man was before she ever showed up, before she ever appeared. Before I could take her out of you, you had to be in a state I intended you to be in. And so if she meets you before you are to going who you're supposed to be, she doesn't really meet you, she meets something unnatural. So we got to raise that standard again and I think, again, exemplify it in our everyday lives and give people something to model after.

It's really good. I just have two quick stories. I had a girl yesterday come up to me in our life group and she said, can you pray for me? And she said, I'm going through a court case right now where my dad has not been paying any child support and my mom is making me basically serve him with papers to pay her what she's owed as a daughter. And I had to pray for her. And at the end of it, I found out that she was a senior in high school. She had just graduated. I thought she was a freshman in high school, she was a freshman in college. So her dad missed her entire childhood and was not there to support her or to sustain her. And you can see the brokenness in her and how resilient she had become because of her mother, but how she should not have had to be that her dad should have been. And then I had another kid, which doesn't seem related, but it is another 14 year old. He was telling me, I got girl problems. Can you, can you help me? And I was like, this is right after I had this deep thing, 14 years old. And he's like, my girlfriend's not talking to me, she's talking guys right in front of me. And I don't know if I can trust her. And I'm like, I'm looking at him and I'm like, we're gonna have to unravel and relay a whole new foundation for him. Because he was so concerned about how much she was living her life than him having a foundation on God. I had to take him through Ecclesiastes 3. Show the seasons and the times. Song of Solomon, don't awaken love before it's time. And then what is the definition of love in 1 Corinthians 13? I took him through that as quick as I could as an older brother fathering him, trying in 10 minutes. But we can't do it. It has to be a sustained time of consistency of seeing this. Yeah, but that's the struggle that we have with these young generation for blink.

God be merciful and be gracious to us. He can do it. I do what I do because I believe it can change. I'm never going to wave the white flag and wave the surrender flag. I'm never going to do it. I know you said resilient women, a lot of strong women were created out of weak men. And so celebrate women. Celebrate strong women. Let me tell you, my wife. My wife is doing more. My wife is at a photo shoot right now for her new book. She's written more books than me. Her book sold more books than mine. I am all for. But when it comes to mine and her role, she has no problem letting me carry those bags through the airport and let me open that car door, and I have no problem doing it. Why? Because I want to send her a message. Honor. Honor, masculinity. That's what we talked about today. Real raw, relevant. I hope you guys enjoy this. I really do, because I want to have provocative conversations that are relevant to our culture. I don't want to come on here and be a preacher. Y' all got plenty of videos of me preaching, But I want to come in here and kind of get behind the curtain a little bit and just be able to talk about these things without fear of them being untouchable. They're not untouchable. God's word has a lot to say about them, and we have a responsibility to speak. Man, I appreciate you guys hanging with me. Pastor Matt, our student pastor, you got to check out Redemption Youth and, of course, RF our ministerial fellowship. Guys, if you're out there and you're a minister and you're on an island by yourself, we would love to have you connect. Get in touch with him. And until next time, we'll see you real soon. Hope we'll be back on here, and it will be much more pleasant on your eyes than it was today. We love you guys. We'll see you later.