Ron + Hope: Unfiltered: Pursuing the Presence of God with Guest: Stephen Ward

Foreign. Take it.

Hello, everybody. It's Ron and Hope. Unfiltered, real, raw, relevant. And we have.

All right.

Our sweet friend with us. What's up, Steve Ward?

What's up?

You ever noticed how cold water hurts after a cough? Oh, dear Lord. Have you? Always. People think that's coffee. That's cold water. I just got through with a cough drop. Now, I had to be real raw and relevant by myself last week.

I know you did, but now there's three of us, so I don't know.

How many views it got, but you got to go, like, subscribe, whatever. Last week, because I talked about discipline. That's not on anybody's top 10 list, but I'm telling you, I talked about things that can transform your life. It was pretty hard.

The things we had 30 minutes. The things that do us the best.

You know, I never thought I would ever come in here and quote Mike Tyson. I think he's a great guy. I think God's done a lot of things in his life, but I never thought I'd use him as a sermon prop. But he said, discipline is doing the things you hate with the exact same passion as the things you love.

Wow.

And I thought, I never heard that. That's pretty darn good.

So anyway, that takes it to another level.

Yeah. And not just doing it.

Not just doing it, but doing it.

With the passion, as if you. As a thing that you love. And I was like, wow, I don't know that I even do that.

But you just skipped over what I just said.

What was that?

I did the. No, because you was thinking about your cough drop. You weren't listening to me, what I said. But we call him Teeth.

Oh, God.

When did I start calling you?

A long, long time ago.

Okay, well, let me set this up. We need. Before we go into good, deep stuff, let's be funny a minute. I met y', all, y', all, 26, 25.

Ah, it was 2000. We met in 2003.

That's 20 years ago. You're 40.

I'm 44. Before.

24.

Wow. I didn't think he was that early in the morning. That's crazy. So we got y', all, then we brought them into our staff at Redemption in Greenville at the time. And we come from a lot of similar holiness backgrounds. Kind of backwoods country. Go to church barefooted, sing all day. I mean, we come from a lot of that. And Hope knows about it where she come from, too. Those people have very peculiar names. When you go to holiness churches, you got these you got these Norma jeans and Lola, Anne, Lois, you got these names. And everybody in these big cities watching us right now have no idea what we're talking about. But this is where we come from. This is a name. So I looked at Stephen, and he smiled one time in front of me. And I saw about 52 teeth. And I looked at him. He has more than us.

He has.

I looked at him, I said, from this point forward, thou shalt be called Teeth. Teeth. Teeth. And then his name, his wife's name's Lori, but I call her Lori. Jean, it's Lori. Because when you're Holiness, you got to have a second name.

Her name's Lori Beth. Why didn't you do Lori Beth?

Jean's more churchy.

Okay.

Yeah, Jean's more churchy. So I'm serious. I may call him Teeth while we're sitting there talking to him. He's Teeth in my phone and I call him Teeth. Mine, too. And I'd gotten so used to it, I can't hardly call him Stephen. But anyway, Stephen and Lori are precious to us. Like. Like biological family, like blood. And we've got so many special people. Red worship our east coast and west coast that help us create a sound that helps prepare space for me and hope to sow the word, sow the seed of God. Yes, and. But you and Lori, for years, not only in the student and adult, young adult ministry, but then in the other ministry and traveling with me everywhere, were our praise and worship leaders, atmosphere setters for years. And to me, you're a little bit different than all the rest. And I'm not talking about in quantity or rank. I'm talking about the stuff that God's given you is just kind of in a different category.

Yes, sir.

And let's get personal quick. Do you ever feel like you don't fit?

All the time.

Talk about that.

It's been. Ever since I was really. I guess at a young age, I always felt like that I was different. I stuck out. A lot of times the enemy tried to use that actually to deter me from my purpose, you know, to try to mess with my mind. Well, you're not this. You're this, you know? But, yes, I didn't fit in. I was the kid that was always made fun of because I had the crazy haircuts, I wore the crazy different clothes, you know, and it was.

And your daddy was a. Your daddy was a circuit revival.

And then, you know, they couldn't figure me out because I. I would. I would be dressing like that. But then I would go jump on my dirt bike and want to do motocross. Mechanic.

Play the piano.

Yeah. And then play the piano and lead worship. You know what I'm saying? So it was like I didn't fit. But any mold. I functioned in all of the. All of those worlds. So.

And can build anything. I mean, anything. Anytime I need a handyman.

Ain't no doubt about that.

I call teeth.

So then. But also, you know, you talked to me a lot. You know, you didn't have formal school and what school you did. You did homeschool. So that again, can create a social awkwardness, Correct?

It did.

So you got gifts that are. That make you different. And I know a little bit about this. You got an anointing that makes you different. And then you have an upbringing that creates some social awkwardness. And so I can see how you'd have a whole lot of feelings that you got to work through to basically keep your confidence and keep your value. Not trying to make you cry. I'm just talking about. We've had many, many talks about this. I didn't experience it as badly as you. Hope always told me. She said, ron, I knew I was different. I was different. I don't even know if she knows how to explain it. She just said, I don't care what car I was in, what crowd I was in, what room I was in. I knew I was different.

I never felt like I belonged there.

Yeah. If my old high school folk are living. I mean, listen, I love you guys. I knew I was not staying there.

Exactly.

I cannot explain it. I didn't know what that meant. I knew that was not my destiny. I knew that was not my atmosphere. I knew it was not going to be my experience. I didn't know what it was, but I knew that's what it wasn't. So let me ask you this question. When did you start? Whether it was last year or 20 years ago. Okay. I'm different and I'm good with that and embracing it. I'm different and I'm okay.

Or is it always a lifelong thing.

Or did a work in progress?

I think in the last, probably maybe the last eight to 10 years, it's become more, I guess, of a revelation that really set in. This is who I am and I don't have to keep trying to be something different.

Yeah.

You know, that everybody else thought I should be or you should try to do this because I tried all those things. You know, it is emotional when you bring those things up, but it doesn't. It's not emotionally moving to me or to hurt me again. It doesn't hurt. It doesn't try to take me back to a place. But it's one of those that, you know, man, God, you did this in my life, you know, And I shared this with someone the other day. And I said the goodness of God led me to a place of loving him to a deeper level that I never knew that I could. And I said it from this place. I said, because there were moments that I would do things that people say you shouldn't have done that and got on a stage and tried to be who God had created you to be from a. Whatever in our church, you know, they would call it sin or whatever, they would try to condemn you. And I said, but when I got on the stage, for me, this is how it worked for me. And I did what I felt that God was trying to pull out of me. And he showed up and moved in the building and people's life were changed. I said, I left that room with saying, I don't want to do what I fell into anymore because of what I encountered of the love of God still showing up and moving through the gift that was on my life, you know what I'm saying? It led me away from those hunger of those things. So I say that because it was. I didn't. I don't know if I finished past the seventh grade. A lot of people don't know that, you know, And. And I did struggle. I struggled with. Can't. How am I going to make it in this world of what I do? And I can't read off exactly a Lori Jean. Lori Jean. And. And it was. I mean, she has become my. My champion person. She champions me and has pushed me and just really been there for me. You know, it's like she. She was my Google and Siri before I ever had anybody, you know what I'm saying? It was kind of that. And it's like I had to get past the point because I was put in situations, you know, of feeling like, well, I can't go learn music because I can't really read, you know, what I'm supposed to be reading or even be able to write, you know, and do these things. So I remember in this process of trying to find myself, I left home and at the age of 16, I was. I was traveling with my dad at that time doing ministry, tent revivals, all of these things. And there was this just holy. I feel like it was a holy frustration in me. And, you know, I love my Parents. But at that time, it was like my dad didn't know how to embrace the creative. Stephen.

I got you.

He knew how to embrace the Stephen that would get out and ride the tractor and ride his dirt bike and work on the cars and all that. But when it came to the creative side, wanting my hair to be different, my clothes to be different, he didn't know how to embrace that. So my pattern of thinking when it came to ministry, it was just different. Yeah, God started revealing things to me, and so I started feeling even rejected from my dad, my earthly father. And so it got to a point. I remember the night I came in the house. I was supposed to be going on a ministry trip with him, and I said. I looked at my mom and I said, I'm done. And I went in my room and I packed a bag. I didn't know where I was going. I called a friend to come pick me up. And from there, I started on this journey of really trying to say, who is Stephen outside of the God, The God that I know through my parents, you know what I'm saying? And life that I've known through my parents.

Stephen.

Yeah. Yeah.

Who.

Who. Who am I? And on this journey of trying to find me in this process, I go into this house of a preacher takes me in, and, you know, in this process of him and his wife, they were like, you need to go back to school. You need to learn, you know, they tried to bring me back to this place, and it just wasn't working. I was still in struggle after struggle, and I remember trying to get out of that environment because I was feeling so stuck. And it became. I don't want to go in depth, but it came abusive. It was a weird situation. And they were all gone. We were sitting. I was sitting by myself in a living room, and I went and I got a Brownsville VHS tape. Then it was a VHS tape.

Brownsville Revival.

Brownsville Revival, yep. And I put it in the VHS player, and Lyndall Cooley came on, and he was singing that song, Holy love Flowing me Fill me up like a ragincy. And that's all I remember of those lyrics. And something supernatural came in the room. And I don't remember coming to myself until that video had played all the way through. The TV was fuzzy, and then you knew how long Steve Hill preached. It was long. So I remember. And I remember getting up off the floor that day, and something radically shifted in my life from a place I would call an encounter with the God of Stephen, not the God of Thomas Ward. My grandfather was a preacher, not the God of my dad or my mom of living through those testimonies. It became a personal experience of saying, this is me that is going to live through you. And it changed my, it changed my that day. It gave me a different perspective.

Yeah, everything I would say that encounter gave you an appetite for many more encounters.

It did.

Yeah.

It gave you an appetite.

I remember making. And you know, I remember making a commitment to God. When I got up off the floor that day, I said, God, as long as I live, I will do everything I can to lead people to this moment right here, to have this.

Well, goodness gracious, that right there, that explains a lot to me, even about you. But it's hard to switch. It's hard to. It's really hard to take this God encountered switch over here to an ad. But we have to celebrate our sponsors, over 80 million men and women.

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They're just, they're growing. A lot of press from people saying the results they've had. And guys, I can't tell you when you, like, when you subscribe, when you go use those promo codes. Rah. When you do things like that, you're helping us do what we do. It takes a lot to do what we do. And our goal is to get more people. We're trying to do something. We want to be fun. We want this to be unscripted, but at the same time, we want somebody to leave it. And there's something you can take with you.

Yes.

And that's what we're trying to do.

To impact their life.

And when you do those little things, it helps us do a big thing. So thank you so much for that. Let me take it and shift. So you're saying, you know, Pastor Ron, you're talking about this guy you got on the show with you now, the podcast, Stephen. He's just different. Let me go to that and talk about what I mean that. Then let him respond. Hope you chime in too. All right. I was raised on God encounters and experiences.

Yes.

That revolutionized, not changed, revolutionized my life. And that I will never forget. And I had a myriad of them. I came up in some primitive thinking, but they believed in the power of God.

That's right.

And I saw the power of God. I felt the power of God. I experienced the power of God. I saw miracles undeniable. I had a dad that played Oral Roberts every Sunday morning. I saw healing lines. I saw. Then coming up through the Benny Hinn years, I saw all these things. I was made to watch the old tapes. The AA Allens, read all the books on Wigglesworth. I was in all that, but I was also. I went to the camp meetings. I was in the four hour services. I ate carpet. I seen my wife where she couldn't push herself up off the floor. I saw one guy point at me and I shot back across the room and landed on my neck because he pointed at me. I've had a prophetic word spoken over my life by a guy I've seen before who read my mail. And these things, those. I call it pylons, the pylons of God from those experience have been driven.

So deep in me. That's right.

You never forget them. Now they Impact you.

I'm not going to be a generation basher.

Correct.

But my heart grieves your generation, the millennial generation. Now, Z, they say it's going to be a different animal. They say Z is going for it.

It is.

They'll meet in a barn and crawl through grass. They're going to go for God. And I'm loving that. I think I'd have to talk to them to know, but it's pretty much across the board. A lot of the millennial pastors that are now coming into real places of influence, they looked at our generation and said, you know what? I don't want that. I don't want four hour services. I don't want to lay on the carpet and I don't want to see. No. I don't want my kid to see a devil get cast out and.

Exactly.

Which the Bible's full of.

Exactly.

They didn't want to have to explain things to non believers that they didn't.

Know how to explain.

They don't want to look weird and they don't want to turn off a non believer. And so what saddens my heart, I'm not going into all that. I won't take the podcast time and do all that. What saddens my heart is we have a whole generation that's never been prophesied to.

Correct. You're right.

They've never found themselves waking up out of the spirit, out of a spiritual encounter with God hours later.

They never walked around in the room and prayed in the spirit and could not speak in their known language.

Correct.

They've never seen a tumor shrink right in front of them. Correct. I don't know that the generation don't want to experience. I'm thinking the pastors may have made the decision for them. Correct. And said, I'm not letting it in here.

Yes, sir.

When all I have is a form of godliness and no power. That was the Bible's strictest warning to the end Day church.

Exactly.

You've got everything, but you've got nothing.

Yeah. It's lukewarmness.

Yep. What did he say? Church at Laodicea. Talking about? He said, you think you're rich.

He said, you think you are. He said, but you're poor, pitiful and blind and you're in need of eyesight.

And the problem is when buildings are full and money's flowing, you can't tell them anything.

Nope.

Okay. But there are biblical concepts, like seeking that a whole generation knows nothing about. Travail.

Correct.

I could get up and talk about travail. They wouldn't even know. Travat.

Yeah, what is that?

You know, sanctification. All in the Bible. These are all Christians. These are Jesus concepts. And when I say that he's different, he does not fit in the three song 18 minute model. So he came to me and we were not an 18 minute model. We were a good church model. But even in that he came to me and he said, pastor, this is what I feel like I'm doing. I feel like I'm a revivalist and I bring moves to a church. I don't want to be a pastor. I don't want a church. I want to come alongside the church and take the embers that have been deteriorating and breathed fire on them again. And so you have created these living room experiences, these God countering experiences that are literally unscripted, off the rails. And it's just chasing God and let it go where it go, go wherever it goes.

And letting people encounter God and have, and have shifts in their life where in a normal church service sometimes it's not so able to happen.

That's right.

So you just brought this to the west coast?

Yes, sir.

We just had one filled up with about 600 young adults right here. I was blown away for 2 hours, 10, 15 minutes. People dripping wet with sweat. And the passion for chasing God never deteriorated during the entire two hours. I haven't seen that here before. Tell people if you came to one of my encounters, this is what you should expect.

What Pastor Hope said about the church that we were talking about, the isab they hadn't been able to see anymore has become so alive in me. It's become back like never before. For me to. Every time I'm reading scripture, it's, can you see? Can you see? Can you see everything? Can you see this?

And.

And I feel like you said this generation that has missed something, we went to wanting preference over presence. We started saying, what do you prefer out there? Out there? And we go and we create a formula to make what kind of church I want. What do you want?

So the worship service is built around the man and not around God.

Exactly. And we start picking song. Even in a song, in a song moment where we're singing together, we'll start picking songs and wondering what songs they like instead of approaching it, what God wants to hear, you know what I'm saying? And it's the way that it becomes. What's the top song that's on the chart this week that's really hitting, you know, that people are singing and not realizing that it's not about the song, but it's about the people becoming the image of Christ here on the earth. And us becoming the image of Christ here on the earth is really worship. You know, the more that we become like him is when he gets the glory.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Not when we're broke. He don't get glory out of us being broke. We don't get glory out of us being sick. But becoming that. That image. Image there. Yeah. It's. It's more and more coming, beholding him, you know, because you're beautiful. Exactly.

What you behold, you become.

And I think back to what you said, Pastor, is when we grew up, it was Jesus only.

Yeah.

Bottom line, we didn't have all the bells and whistles.

I mean, I played outside toilets.

I played pianos that wouldn't stay in tune, and I played behind people that couldn't sing on key.

So it worked out.

You know what I'm saying? You know? But what. What did we have? We were there with our heart in the right place.

Clean hands and a pure heart. And a pure. You don't ascend to the Mount of God with the bells and whistles.

Exactly.

You ascend with clean hands and a pure heart. And I've seen some of the most simplistic expressions of worship bring the greatest dimension of worship in the building.

Exactly.

And that confuses the people that have all the bells and whistles. I know one time where me and you went somewhere. I'm not going to say the name, but it was not the type of environment we would normally be invited to. You went with me, I remember. And I went and I got up, and with all my trying not for anything spiritual not to happen because I didn't want to ruin this relationship, it just exploded. Anyway, you went and jumped on the keys.

It blew up.

And the gentleman that invited me didn't understand what I did. And the guy who was the worship leader there didn't understand what you were.

Doing because of the response you got from people.

They had no context.

No.

By which to put a moment or a move. A move.

Because they wanted a formula, the worship.

Tell me what you did. That's what he said.

He took me in the back room and he said, how did you and pastor communicate that together? Knowing that when he said that, you knew to come in. And I'm looking at him and I'm like, what do you mean? And immediately, you know, you and I, and we know that it's by the Spirit. We're connected as the Spirit man is Connected. And I was sharing this with some yesterday. I'm like, it's not that you find a band that can sonically create a sonic sound, it's can they connect in spirit to spirit?

Yes.

And that's when you release that sound together corporately from heaven. And that's what I told that worship leader. I said I knew by the spirit where he was going, because. And they're like, what do you mean?

Well, see, when I, when I stopped, I felt it. And I was in a room full of non Pentecostals.

Yes.

And I sit there and I said, I don't know what you do, but I've got to stop a moment. And the place went nuts. The place went nuts. And you know, he was asking me, he wanted to know how I got that response. And he wanted to hear A, B, C, D. And this is one of America's most well known pastors leading a huge conference. And I sit there and I left and I said, my God, he does not understand out of an ABCD context how a moment like that can be created.

Correct.

And that's what I live for.

Well, you have to want it. That's key.

You do.

You said, that's what I live for. And you have to desire it. And you have to invite it into your arena, into your service, into your platform, into your worship service if you don't desire it.

So what's the fear? We're just having conversations.

I don't even know sometimes if it's. I think it's an ignorance. You just don't know what you don't know.

Yeah, I don't think you're right. I think it could be both and it could be both and because if it is a fear side, it's that I'm not in control. I don't know where this is going. And I don't like to not know that I'm in control. You know what I'm saying? It's like the river. He said, go out, Ezekiel, until he was in a place to where his feet did no longer touch. He was no longer in control.

It was so deep, no man could cross it. And I guess why I would love for my son Chase to see a devil cast out. I would love for somebody not to get sent to counseling, but I mean, immediately change right there and they start taking drug paraphernalia and throwing it on you. Talking about a church going up.

That's right.

When they see the power of God moving in a building. And I think what your worship does, you're not Trying to get around, get everybody to do what Stephen does. I think you're a rare breed and you respect the praise and worship that's in every house. You come alongside of it.

That's right.

To give these encounters that Sunday just does not logistically call for. Yeah, there's kids, there's parking lot issues. We got all this stuff going.

You know, we have another service coming up.

Yeah, we got another service. But you come in.

Yeah. And I feel like Sundays can be the. The continual fuel, I call it. You know what I'm saying? It's almost like I'm not. And you know this about me. I'm not a maintainer, you know what I'm saying? That's what I would look at myself. But there are people that are called not just to maintain, but to continue.

Somebody like it, and they stoke the.

Fire and just keep it, keep it going. And I feel like that's what Sunday should be. You know what I'm saying?

That people, you should still have that freedom and that liberty in Sunday service.

God can move in five minutes. Why does he need 25 minutes?

Exactly.

Right. And that's.

Why does he need 30 minutes?

But I think the thing is five minutes or 25 or whatever. Make room, make room. Just make room. Make room, guys.

That's right.

God will move.

Yes.

You know what? For a whole generation to never have hands laid on them. We don't even build.

You stir up the gifts.

Buildings with altar space. There's no. If you wanted to pray for them, where would you bring them? And I, for a guy who grew up, I was commissioned by the laying on of hands.

That's right.

My gifts were activated by laying on of hands. I was healed by the laying on of hands. And so when I see that all of these things have been removed for form and for stuff and for bells and whistles, we better entertain them because there's nothing else there for them.

This is the thing. At the end of the day, coffee better be. Exactly. At the end of the day, Hollywood and these places are always going to outperform, you know what I'm saying? Because they are performance. They are their creator, always going to outperform us. And that's what I always try to bring to people. There's always in the natural going to be somebody that's better than you, better singer, better player. But at the end of the day, are you being the best you? Are you being the best image that.

He created you perfection.

Let me stop there. Hollywood isn't scared of the spirit world at All.

No, no.

So we got preachers that tremor at the thought of even teaching a Holy Spirit message much. A series. You go to Hollywood, everything's the exorcist.

Oh, they're doing crazy.

Everything is the conjuring. Everything. I mean, everything.

They're drinking stuff and going out in the back fields of places and encountering.

There'S a cult worship.

You know what I'm saying?

You know what? The academies, the Grammys, whatever the song one is, I don't keep up with them. I mean, it's like half the thing is so dark with spirituality. And so while we got a church that is so running from it.

I know it.

Then you got a world that is saying, you know what? Not showing them the light of the world, but we're going to show them the darkness.

That's right.

And that really confuses me.

That's right.

I don't understand why they have no problem. And I saw Joe Rogan a while back and I'd love to have a fraction of his audience. I saw Joe and Rogan a while back. Don't know nothing about where he is with God. I think at least he entertains the conversation. And he said, I am curious about this. He said, why is it they always attack Christ? He said, the parades always mock Christ. He said, it's never Buddha. Nope. He says, never Muhammad. He went down because he's the one true living God.

He is.

So if we got a world that says, I'm going to unbashedly show you the power of darkness. I'm gonna sing about it, act it out, do movies on it.

Come on.

My goodness. Can a preacher come on, church?

Come on.

On the power.

Come on, church.

That's right.

I don't understand. Well, so we got. We got some more. We got some more wonderful people we need to talk about.

Go ahead.

We gotta talk about that because they're awesome and we love them. Listen, I just get tickled thinking about me and you, Ron, and our credit score. I think it was like nothing, like zero, you know, it was in the negative 13. Then it got up to about 300, 400. And it took a long time. And then when you spend all the time trying to build your credit, one thing can decimate it.

And let me. Let me defend us. We weren't irresponsible. We had that stuff happening.

Yes.

We didn't have any insurance. We had. We had, you know, school loans out our ears. And when all that stuff starts reporting one message and you know what you get decimated.

In our 20s, and 30s. We didn't know that they even reported.

No, I didn't know anything about it.

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Now me and you were watching a mystery show last night before I went to bed and saw a Nutrafol commercial and a Chime.

Yeah, they're awesome.

That's cool. So I like to see these companies doing really well. I don't like these, these podcasts. Some of, some of these podcasters do two hours and I can't sit down two hours and listen to a podcast. So I've always said, you know, we going to try to go with the 30 at the most 40 minute model. So right here toward the last, I, I want you to have a chance to share with your heart. Share your heart. I, you know the old Tommy Tenny book, God Chasers. I just, you just to me are happiest when you've got minstrels that know how to play, singers that know how to sing. I'm not talking about ability.

That's right.

I'm talking about they know the flow of a spirit and what God is doing in a room and they're dialed into that. And when you get that together, you just like to chase him.

Yes.

So final comments on what you would say to somebody who has never experienced that. Most of the people today have experienced an 18 minute song service, a seeker friendly message, but a great experience.

And occasionally listening to some Christian music on the radio.

Listening on the radio. And they're good people, I'm not knocking that. But what you do would be foreign to them.

But what if they're listening and they say, I would love to have those experiences. How do I do that?

That's where it's going to start. Yes, that right there. I feel like, because in order for us to go to a higher place, you have to realize there's a higher place, you know what I'm saying? There's something missing. And I believe that God created that in the spirit of the man when he created us to always hunger and thirst for a place of always being with him.

I don't think we know that that's what that hunger is for.

And we try to fill it.

That's right.

With all the other things. And then, I mean in most churches we start coming at the things and we run the people away. You know what I'm saying? Instead of embracing and saying, hey, there is this place that can be filled and it can be from a place of presence. And I've said this often, I feel like the first thing that is up for grabs in the modern day church is the presence of God. It's like it's the first thing that's negotiable to be. We're going to schedule this, you know, when we either call it a worship service or whatever, it's like it's the first thing that we start messing with, you know, instead of just letting it be. Yeah. And we create another substitution for them to be connected to and if we don't have it, you know what I'm saying?

So a mom at home, a stay at home mom, a dad on third shift. How do they set time to chase the presence of God? How do you do that?

I have personally. You know, people may ask, and I know they ask you all, what's your secret life look like? What's your secret time? You know, saying I can't tell you that I lock myself in a room. Used to. Yeah, used to. I remember days that I would lock myself in a room for four hours, just me and my piano and just, and just love on the Lord and just spend time with him, have conversation. But as we go through this place of life and a calling on you to touch the masses and God to use you in a generation, I feel like that it's not something that you turn on and turn off. It's not Jesus only at church, period. It's Jesus in everything we do. You know, David said it like this. He said, early, I will seek thee. That word early there meant first. It wasn't a time of clock, it was God first. I'm going to ask you in this situation, what do you want? You know what I'm saying? Or just being. Acknowledging him immediately of being mindful. I think we missed that. Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, thy soul. And we get to the mind. It's like we check out. It's like we don't allow our mind to go to that place. But in order to enter the kingdom the way that God said, you have to become like a child. What is so strong about a child? Their imagination, their mind. They can come up with some stuff. And he brings us back to that place when we learn to not be childish, but be childlike and learn to position ourself of having the imagination of what is your imagination that God is going to exceed? He said, I'll exceed above and beyond what you think. Bigger than that, more than that, you know, but we limit it and bring it into this place. So my challenge to people is, is again is that we have to do what the Bible says. We're transformed by the renewing of our mind. Pastor, you've taught us so well. Repentance isn't just this outward working. It's a renewing. It's the metanoia. It's the mind being made over. That's repentance. And I feel like that the church feels like if you come and repent at the altar, you've done all your repentance. My life is a continual day of repentance because my mind in repentance is being renewed. So therefore my mind is being renewed. My life's being transformed into what, looking like him. So I think it starts in the mind, and I think that's where we are in the world. The world is so inundated with mind stuff. You got meta. I mean, it's back to that, you know what I'm saying? It deals with the mind. And that is the most powerful thing. And that is the power of worship. Is that when you understand that you can't worship one thing looking at two.

Oh, that's good.

You know what I'm saying? And it's.

That is Jesus said, if your eye.

Be single, your whole body is whole. Your whole body's full light. Who's the light? It's full of Jesus. You know what I'm saying? But we don't see that. We don't say, where is that singleness?

Yes.

We come in here and oh man, that light looks really good. And they're over here singing about God is holy, but your mind is sometimes diverted. I love all this stuff. I've been a part of it. I've loved the creation of what we've used to express the way we worship.

But I refuse to lean on it.

Correct.

You can't lean on it.

It can't be the form without the power.

Let me wrap it up with this story. I had a very well known person. I hope he's not listening because he'll know who I'm talking about. Very well known. Asked me to come to his church for the first time. This was years ago, and by that time it was already an amazing church. And of course wanted my opinion. And I'm a nice guy. I'm not a but I'm a nice guy. Sometimes you're a but I can be. But the older I've gotten, the more honest I'll be.

That's right.

And the more quick I am with my responsibility. And this is a church that just. They got it going on. I mean, there's just not a lot of flaws in what they do. And asked me, what do you think? And I said, well, take away that, that, that, that, that. And then I think I said something about what if the power goes off?

Oh my God.

And all this stuff you lean on is shut down. I said, what do you have? Because a week or two before I had this meeting, we had had a Wednesday night service. And I told them back there in the children's thing, they had a bullhorn. I preached with a bullhorn.

It was nuts.

It went crazy.

Altars packed, extended service. And I had none of this. It was black.

Yeah, yeah.

None of this. And that's what I wouldn't trade anything that's right in the world for. And that's what I'm hungry for. Every experience, for every generation to experience. I want that so bad.

Just him.

And I think what we're asking starts right here. We're having this conversation. There's a hunger, number one. And I feel like the hunger is there. And he said, those that hunger and thirst for righteousness shall be filled. It's not an option. No, it's a promise to us. And I feel like where you and I and Pastor Hope grew up, it was demonstrated.

Yeah, it was.

Today there's no demonstration. You know what I'm saying? How do. How would they know that you're a disciple if there's Nothing being demonstrated out of your life. You'll be known by the fruit you bear. Greater things shall follow you, you know? And I feel like that's where we are. We're back to creating this hunger through conversation. And then that it's available. Demonstrate it.

Yeah, we got to shut this thing down.

We do.

I got so many things.

That's good, though.

Here's. Have you been to this church? Oh, yeah, man. Have you been to this church? Oh, man, they're building. Have you been to this church? Yeah. Have you seen their production? Very few times have I heard, man.

The power of God.

That service changed my life. But when I hear people that have come to me over the years, you know what they say? You don't know this, but in 2013, 2008, or in 2017, I had a gun to my head. And then I heard that worship, then that word, and my life was revolutionized. By the way, here's my wife.

That's right.

And here's my two kids.

That's right, man.

Nothing like it.

I live for that.

That's right.

I live for that.

That fuels us.

And I really couldn't care less if you leave talking about my production or building our singers. If you come and that word, I will never be the same.

That's right.

I felt such love in the presence of God like I've never experienced.

I got in there and I couldn't stop crying.

Yes.

You know, those are the things I'm after. Get people with God and get out of the way.

That's right.

And so that's when I talk about chasing God and these experiences for that not to just be an event, but to be a lifestyle. But sometimes they have to be initiated.

That's right.

Out of an event.

That's right. That creates creativity.

And we're so thankful, Stephen, for your heart, for that.

Thank you. And you're doing what you and Jean has a heart. She really does. That's right. That's why we're married.

I tried to get her on this podcast, but she wouldn't do it. She said, I can't do it. I can't do it. Steve's good. Steve's got it. All right, guys. We love you. I pray this has blessed you. Like it. Share it. Send it to all your friends. Put it on your platforms. We love you so much, and we hope that you have a hunger and a thirst like you've never had to experience the power and the presence of God. He wants to meet you. He's waiting. He wants to have an intimate relationship with you. Just pursue him. Pursue him. Make time. Make space for him. He's waiting on you. We love you so much. Until later, it's Ron and Hope. Unfiltered, real, raw, relevant.

See you guys.