Unequally Yoked | Ron + Hope: Unfiltered

Foreign. Hey, everybody, it's Ron and Hope. Unfiltered, real, raw, relevant. What are you laughing at?

Been in meetings. God, you just silly meetings.

You're just silly today.

You know how I usually get. I'm not silly yet. Tell them what I do. Go ahead and tell them because they all think I'm so serious.

What?

When I get tired, you get silly? Very.

Yes.

Very silly. I don't want to be silly because this is actually a very important topic we're going to be talking about today. But we have been torqued. We have been in some long meetings. We don't get to just pop in and do podcasts and leave. This is one of the many things we do in a myriad of stuff during our day. And it's a hard shift. Yeah. When you've been doing intense meetings, it's a hard shift to come in here and then be microphone stage people. I kind of like to keep these things media all in its one day. So you're engaged in that way. But we just have some stuff we had to get done this morning. But you look good and it has been a grind. I got my cargo pants on and.

I like your pink shirt.

Cargo.

I bought you that.

You did buy me this after I bought you five dresses. You bought me a shirt?

Oh, my Lord.

You don't remember.

I do.

Sandro took you in the Sandro outlet.

Sandro.

Sandro took in the Sandro outlet because the outlets are two miles from our house and cheaper. And people don't know that when they say address. They don't know we live right down the road from outlets. I mean, great outlets. Yeah, we got great outlets. I love that. 70% off is what I love. Got to wear last season's clothes. But that's all right. That's all right.

I got this at the outlet.

You did outlet people.

When me and Lorraine and Shelly went shopping.

Or outlet people.

Outlet.

All right, Let people. We got a serious topic. Talk about. But I feel so greasy. I can go by and get the grease off of my. Feel greasy.

Wipe it off.

I can't right here in front of everybody.

Take your hand and do like that. Yes. Okay.

Was it better? What about do it.

Do it up there?

No, my forehead's too big. It just is what it is. I'm just going to shine today. It's the glory, the glory of the Lord. It's the glory of the Lord shown round about me. It is.

We are going to talk about addiction today.

No, that's the second one. We're going to do the unbeliever thing. I told you I had two on my heart. Let's do the unbeliever one first.

Okay?

The other one's like, real serious. I need to segue into real, real serious. We started talking this morning. We had a conversation because, like I said, these are unscripted on purpose. But we had a conversation this morning about things we commonly get asked. Number one, we have a lot of people that are or live with someone or have a loved one that is battling addiction. We won't talk about that in the next podcast. And we also are getting a lot of questions. Let me back up, let me back up. Our ministry, which is called Redemption. We have other ministries, but that's the big one is seeing a. Not a renaissance, a young adult movement taking place. And it is a move on the likes of maybe, which I've never seen. And Redemption in my time of pastoring it for three and a half decades, maybe. I could think of some other times that come close, but not like what we're seeing right now. It almost has a life of its own. And most ministries, you have to. You have to maintain, you have to push. This one is you just have to make room for it because it's already organically there. And so for the first time ever, we've got young adult pastors on both coasts, specifically for the Gen Z group and the younger millennials. And we've never done that. And everything we do, I mean, you can just like, I mean, we had one on the east coast the other night. We're like, we'll have a worship night. And 300 people showed up. I mean, we literally got up in the pulpit and said, we're going to have a worship night tonight. And it's 90% young adults. After Transfer, we said, we're going to have a young adult get together society. 242. After the transfer conference last night, 700 people registered for that. I don't know how many came. 700. Some people registered, went on and registered to come to it. And I looked. There's people everywhere. And every time we've done a worship experience here, a red night, Stephen and Lori done an encounter night. I think the first one was 700, then the next one was like 1200. And it's nothing but just worship. And I'm like, in my earlier days, that would have been hard to pull that off, to get people there just to worship. And they're worshiping two, two and a half hours, unabashedly uninhibited. I said all that to say this, now that we are drawing and pastoring so many young adults, which has probably breathed new life into me and you, I love being around them. Our staff is full of them. The thing always comes up of dating an unbeliever or I'm married to an unbeliever. We got people on staff or that attend church and are like, well, my husband is not a believer or my wife.

Or they married as both of them unlike.

And one of them has gotten saved.

And now one's gotten saved. Now what?

And I think you're going to be surprised at what you hear me say, because I know people that take a very rigid hard line on this. I do have a line, but it's not a rigid hard line because of what I've seen God do in our own family.

That's right.

What I've seen God do in our own family has somewhat changed my line because the Bible has a specific that it speaks when it says, don't be unequally yoked, but define the line where you have become yoked. That's what is not definitive. The Bible gives the yoking definitive. But at what point in my relating to you am I intertwined with you?

Is it going out for coffee? Is it going out to a movie?

Is it a certain amount of time? Is it a certain amount of intimacy? At what point have. Now I'm tied to you and you're tied to me and you get into the areas of soul ties. If you start, a lot of people think that means that's what a yoke yoke is a soul tie. Then you usually have some type of physical interaction that has taken place. And a soul tie actually makes it to the place where you can't even make decisions on your own. You can't make decisions outside the other person. So I want to go back. First of all, let's talk about if you are married and you're married to someone who is an unbeliever. I've always said, I don't want to make these podcasts another sermon. I don't want to do that. I want to talk in conversation. So I'm going to bring up one scripture. The Bible speaks of this in 1st Corinthians 7. The whole chapter deals about marriage, about divorce, about what do you do if you marry somebody who's been divorced. It's pretty hard stuff that nobody wants to talk about. We kind of want to do our thing and we want to kind of skip that chapter. But there's some real specific lines that the Bible lays Out. And I will say if I can, it was our passion to those lines, I think, that helped keep us together. Because when hurt and pain and maybe even feelings weren't there or were adverse toward our marriage, we both respected the Word. I know in my most painful state, I respected the Word. I think in your most broken state, you had a healthy respect for the Word. And so we knew what pleased and displeased God. And that mattered to us. And I've always thought, hope, that if you stand on a principle, God will work on the feelings. And there's people like, I can't get back. I don't have the feelings. There's no feelings there. And I'm like, feelings lie. Yeah. Our feelings were all over the place.

Feelings are tempting.

You laugh in one moment and you feel like you hate somebody the next. But the fact is, if you stand on truth, God works all that feeling stuff out.

That's true.

So I would go back to. These are difficult things to say, but the Bible talks about if one in the marriage is a believer and the other is not. The Bible lays out clearly that just the fact that they are an unbeliever is not your permission or license to leave.

No, not leaves.

Yeah. And they don't have a heart for God like I have a heart for God. The Bible makes clear the fact that you got saved and they didn't get saved is not a license for you to dissolve the marriage. And then he goes on. So you go and say what I do. And we can talk about this after our advertisers. The Bible says that the man is sanctified through the woman. It gives the example of an unsaved man and a saved woman. And it said, the man is sanctified through the woman. And in another place, Jesus talks about, let people see your good works and they will glorify God, not watch you glorify God. Let people see. So let your sight light so shine before men that they see your works and they glorify God. So let's look at our advertiser for a minute, and I'm going to come back and break that down.

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All right, so I was talking about being married to an unbeliever.

And the sanctifying element of.

Sanctifying element of the one person. It gave the illustration of it being a woman, which in probably would be the majority of cases, not all, but the majority and a sanctifying influence. The word sanctify means to be separate, to be holy. And so what it means is the woman the man. If it be a man. It is not a daily debating somebody into the kingdom. We are in the tweet debate, Instagram debate, Facebook debate, hide behind the keyboard. I mean to tell you, we are in it like we have never been before. And nowhere that I know of does the Bible talk about me using wise or persuasive words to try to coerce anybody into a gospel. Because the gospel is not a cognitive thing. It's a heart thing.

That's right.

So it's not. My. My argument is going to beat your argument and you're going to enter the kingdom. It's a heart posture to enter the kingdom. It's a heart decision to get saved. And so you've got to understand, if you are the one that is a believer, you're not, you know, something harmful or immoral or abuse is happening. We're in a different category, right?

We're not.

But I'm just talking about he loves you and you love him. There's not a license to leave just because church wise and spiritual wise, y' all aren't on the same page number two, you've got to let. You've got to give the gospel in your life time to be lived out.

Absolutely.

Let them see your good works and glorify God. In other words, not debate him. But if your faith is real, it will produce fruit.

That's right, fruit. Now, we talked about this in Inner circle last night. We're on kindness, the fruit of the spiritual. Yeah. In the fruit of this. Yes, we're on kindness. And it was the kindness of God that, that drew me to repentance, to change.

My mind, change, my mind, change.

And it's the same way in our relationships. It's kindness. It's not debating when they want to.

Argue, but you won't fight.

Right.

That's kindness.

You just live it.

And when you. Yeah, when you prefer them over yourself, when you're forgiving in your nature, when you're not full of bitterness, wrath and hatred, but you're full of love, grace and mercy when they start seeing those things happen and there's a verifiable change in you. Yes, your conversation changes. Your circle changes. The things you like change. Your desires begin to change. Delight thyself in the Lord and he will give thee the desires of your heart. As you get to know God, it's that he's changing the very things you want and don't want. That is the sanctifying influence of the non believer.

God modeled that for us. It was his kindness that drew us to him. So if he modeled that method of repentance and coming into the light, so to speak, that is the method that we are to use with other people in our life.

The only people I remember off the top of my head, I haven't studied this. So, you know, I'm not trying to start a debate with you if you're a theologian. Just off the top of my head, the only people that Jesus ever Engaged in debate. Were Pharisees.

Right.

Religious people. Jesus never went up to someone who was an unbeliever and engaged in debate.

No, he met them right where they were.

He engaged in kindness. He engaged in meeting physical needs.

And he talked to them about what was relevant. Right there they were at the well. He talked about water.

He talked about water.

They were fishing. He talked about.

Peter had a great catcher for fish. You know, Peter builds his business through fish God gave him. Jesus gave him a great catch of fish. The 5,000 were hungry. He fed them while he talked to them. You know, he didn't come and engage them on debate. And we want to debate people into the kingdom of God. And I don't have any biblical reference nor personal experience, no where that has ever.

That has never worked for me.

Do we have apolog. Apologetics? Yeah, I do. I need a guy to be able to sit down with an Islam guy and defend my faith. Yes, we need those guys. But the people that are out here every day making it happen, who are unbelievers don't want to hear my debate. They want to see, man, you're different.

If you really got what you say.

You got, dude, you're different. You're different. What is it about you? How many times do we hear that there's something different about y'? All? And then you'll look at them and say, well, we're Christians. Oh, wow. Really? And it opens up a conversation.

And in California, they say, it's energy. Oh, you have the best energy.

Everything in California is energy.

Yeah.

And so while I say, I know it's the Holy Ghost, and then there's a conversation starting.

Absolutely.

And so what is that, though? We didn't say anything. Let your light so shine before men. They look at me and you, and they're acting like teenagers. They see us and they're laughing. They see you paying your bill, and I got my arms around you. They see the way you treat me. They see the way we look at each other. And they start commenting. They're like, man, you guys are different. And so I have always said, just shine when I give these big tips. I don't give these big tips and say, I'm Pastor Ron Carpenter. I'm the senior pastor of Redemption. I don't say a word. I don't say a word. But when I walk in the next time, hey, last time you were here, you left me that $75 tip, and your. Your meal wasn't but 18 bucks.

That was in South Carolina. Why did you do that, that was not in California.

Your meal was $75 in California and you left me a dollar fifty. But they'll come up and they're like, why'd you do. I'll just do it and not say a word. And so you, you can't ever underestimate. You got to give it time for. Fruit takes time.

It does. Fruit must be developed.

You can sow seed in a day, but fruit is the result of seed that has been germinated, watered and had time to grow and has been sown on good ground.

Seed developed.

So that sanctifying influence. Now let's move to the other side of the picture. Should I date an unbeliever?

And you know, most Christians would go.

No, don't even do that. Let me do a, Let me, let me be vulnerable here. I would have done that too.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

35 year old Ron in the pulpit, I probably have messages where I was scorched people for doing that. I remember we used to have singles conference, have 2,500, 3,000 people show up one season where we did those things kind of frequently. And, and I probably remember preaching down those lines and I was probably as hard as anybody.

And God, did he not? Well, always. Did he not?

When you get, I'm telling you, when you get really legalistic, God will come blow your argument up.

He does.

He just.

Isn't he bigger than that?

He's so much bigger. He doesn't blow up truth. He blows up your legalism.

Yep.

The Bible makes it clear, do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. Okay? This is the way I look at it. And you feel free. Chime in because I'm not giving a Greek word study on this. I didn't even look to see what the word means. That is God's line. What is not defined is that. What part of a relationship are you yoked that that's what is not defined. I think there is room here to be led by the spirit. That's what I think. Okay. Now most everybody wants you to give them this is right and this is wrong. Because if I keep hammering out this is right and this is wrong, they don't ever have to be led. There's some things you've got to be led.

You do.

There are indicators on the inside of you that are not feelings. They are Holy Spirit indicators. This grieves the spirit. These are red flags. These are go aheads. These are all outside of your feelings when you follow the Holy Spirit. He'll talk and he'll let you know. Chase married what has now become our wonderful now channeling married, a church boy. That's our daughter. She's a church girl. She married a church boy. But both of our sons, Jordan, our beloved daughter in law, who I love her like my daughter. She would probably almost call me dad.

They've been married 13 years.

13 years. And she probably had some belief.

They met at 15 maybe.

I think I'm speaking for her.

I mean, she came to church a couple of times with her grandma.

Yeah. I think that there was maybe a little Baptist church in the country. When she would go to church, she'd go to her grandmother. But she was not a walking in her faith believer. No, far from it. And she would tell you that if she was sitting here, their life experiences that they had didn't lend to. That they had some. Some pretty rough life experiences and it didn't lend to that lifestyle. So it was. That was somewhat foreign to her. Chase was raised in church and. But was not made decisions. Yeah, that. And so, you know, we would always tell Chase, you need to marry a Christian girl. Now, do you want to reveal what happened to you when she walked in? Okay. We saw Chase come in with Jordan. Jordan was a beautiful young lady. She's always been beautiful, beautiful young lady. So she came walking in with her bathing suit, chasing him. We had a pool in the backyard, and you saw him and her walk through there. And I saw your whole countenance change. Tell them what happened.

Well, Chase was not. I mean, he was a long way from God at that point. So maybe they weren't unequally yoked.

Maybe they were equally yoked.

They were equally yoked, but not in the wrong way.

Maybe they're not a good analogy.

But anyway, she. She came in and I saw something different on Chase's face. And I had been really praying for Chase at that point because he was really struggling, struggling. And so I had hunkered down in my prayer. And so I was expecting God to.

Show up some great Christian girl to bring him out.

Yes. Christian girl, Bible. And you know, I'm going to help Chase come out of this. And here comes fire and gas.

His co. Equal. Yeah.

Yes. His co equal. And I said no. I went up to my room.

You start crying.

I went in my closet and I cried. I said, God, this is not what I prayed. 4 and he had.

Why did you say that, though? Did you feel like God told you? That's the one I knew.

I said, when I saw them, I Saw some. I saw something in them that. That was like. I could just sense it in my spirit. This will be the one.

She's not what we would. Thought we would have been praying for.

But God told you she's the one spirit said. I said, this is not what I prayed for. And he said, but what if the. This is the one that I've brought to him? What if you don't think she's God's answer for him? But what if y' all are God's answer for her? Ron, I just crumbled in my closet. And I said, lord, I submit your ways are not my ways. Your thoughts are higher than my thoughts. I don't understand what you're doing, but I trust you. And they got married, they got pregnant, they got married, they got married, they went, you know, wouldn't have been church checklist of how it's going to work.

No.

But they're still together to this. Do they still fight? Absolutely.

Even though Chase wasn't living right? Chase was a church boy.

He was.

She was not a church girl.

But look at them now.

And I've watched God revolutionize their life. Are they like all of us with rough edges? Yes, But I've seen God.

Oh, my goodness.

Most marriages don't even last 13 years.

Right.

They are now 13 years into it with three of the most beautiful kids I've ever seen and scratching and clawing their way. Scratching and clawing their way. And when it's rough, they scratch and claw and they dig in and they make it. So I have seen a church boy marry a non church person and God bring good out of it. Now, our younger son, very opposite situation. Chaz. Okay. I pretty much hammered Chaz on Chaz. You know, we're out here in California. He moved out here with us and we were in California. Like, man, there's thousands of people in this church. There's a lot of singles here because they are career first, they get married later, so get to know people. And I hammer and hammer and hammer. Well, he went on a dating app.

He did.

I would have been a hardline anti dating app person. I think things like that. Although it's not everybody people could hide. And so that was all like, no, you need to be more face to face. And he met Arianna on a dating app in Sacramento and went up and took her to topgolf and had a meeting. And I mean, all of a sudden he starts going up there. All of a sudden she starts driving down here.

And she has never been raised in church.

Never, never, never. Wonderful person. But church was not a part of her life culture never, just wasn't.

And at that point had never accepted Jesus in her heart. Nothing.

And then the next thing we know, I'm giving an altar call. She raised her hand, her hand goes up, she's in church. Number one, she comes to church with him.

Yes.

Number two, she raises her hand. Number three, she's growing in her faith. Number four, we find out she can sing.

She's on the praise team.

Then she starts getting into praise team. Then she's in children's, helping out with the children, part time job while she's in school. All this and that and other. Now she's full time, him and her both at church, her in the accounting and him being the young adult pastor on the east coast. And we sit here and.

And she's leading a life group.

Exactly. I mean look at God, just started a life group. So our personal experiences have seen God turn around.

He's way bigger than us.

A person's life through the influence of another. Here's what I cannot define for you. So if I got people want to get in the thread and thrash me, go ahead. I really don't care. I think what you've got to do, if you're initially attracted to an unbeliever and know that at least at this point those values are not shared, you have to read the tea leaves as it moves forward. Ariana was open, Ariana was hungry, Arianna was tell me more. Ariana would come sit down on our couch at night with him and start asking me questions. How can they know they were exactly right. And so that's reading the tea leaves. You got some. That's just a hardcore atheist.

Right. And trying to pull you down.

Yes. And debating your God. In no time did Jordan or Arianna ever do that to our kids. But if you've got somebody that is not only not following along with your influence, but they're influencing you in an opposite direction and all of a sudden this die hard faith you have, you find yourself having questions. That is where their yoke, their yoking and their influence with you has had a negative effect on your life. And I think that is what God forbids, that I'm letting someone who does not share my values with God have an influence on my life in such a way it is affecting my relationship with God. Right. And God says that's where it has to be cut. And you've got to have the willpower to cut it. To obey God rather than men and to Obey God rather than your feelings.

Now that's dating.

But when you marry, it's the sanctifying influence. Yeah.

They're not abusing you. They're not a drunk beating your kids and blah, blah, blah.

I'm not talking about any of that. I'm talking about it's a healthy living environment. You love him and they love you, but they're not a believer. You've got to understand, because we've heard people use it and I say, what about this scripture? And they just find a way to justify it.

And what about. Remember that couple in our church in Greenville for years, Ken and Gina? Remember? She prayed for him 20 years. Years. She was a believer, married to him.

He was a military man.

He was a military guy, had not accepted Jesus. She got saved later. They had two children. And she prayed for this man to get saved for 20 years. And he finally got saved 20 years later.

He was my armor bearer.

Served us and served in that church.

He was my armor bearer for 15, 18 years. And I'm telling you, I've never met a better man. I've never met a finer man than Ken Hodges.

And don't put God in a box.

I think that was what I wanted to come in here and say.

Don't do it.

That, that the, the, the yol. You can't be unequally yolk. That's God's line. At what stage are you yolked and stopping it? If you understand that the tea leaves are not taking you in a direction that they want to share your faith.

Right. So good, Ron.

I hope it's all right.

So good.

I only used two scriptures. I didn't go into a full on dissertation because that ain't what I want this to be. But I really am trying to help people because sometimes you can say something in a sermon out of a pulpit, but it's different in a conversation. And when you're bringing about personal experiences.

You just have to be led by the Spirit. Really do.

We've had two experiences out of three kids.

Believers, the Holy Spirit will lead you and guide you.

Non believers have met Christ through our family.

Yeah, the Holy Spirit, you got to have a relationship with him, you got to walk with him, you got to listen to him, you got to be led by him because he will lead you into truth, into what you're supposed to do and what you're not supposed to do.

Amen. All right, baby.

Guys, we love you. Listen, I would love to help coach your life to make you better. Go to Hope center circle, dot com. Join today, your first month free. You get my book for free. We're growing. We. We are. I think it's 33 states and five countries represented in the Inner Circle. So come grow with us and download.

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See you later.