#4 Zac Aynsley

My sleep is better, my recovery is better, my appetite is better, my metabolism is higher, I'm feeling stronger within, my breathing is better, I can hold my breath for 3 minutes now instead of 30 seconds.

I'm still thinking, how much did my dad pay you?

He holds 26 world records for achievements that for most people seem impossible and dangerous.

The cold is my teacher.

To me, it's like God.

He might well be one of the most unique humans currently alive.

Wim Hof is changing scientists' understanding of how the body works.

I created a method. The components are breathing, mindset, and cold.

Wim Hof, the Iceman.

Hi guys, I'm Wim, Wim Hof, and every term I go into the unknown through my podcasts. Exploring, exploring life into the depth, breaking the ice to go where nobody has gone before.

You're listening to the Wim Hof Podcast, a Monk Studios original.

And on my side, my son, Ina. He's here to keep me on track, which he's not able to do, by the way, but he will try it and And together we got a great chemistry. And we got Anne, our producer. She makes things really work.

On today's episode, Wim has a recording in person with Zac Ainsley, a well-known men's physique bodybuilder in the global fitness industry, originally from the UK but currently based in the Netherlands, and ever since a good friend of Wim.

I saw that you were growing. You're growing since last Monday. Twice as big as before. What happened, man?

I tell you what happened. It's the Zack effect. Yes, that's a fact. The Zack effect.

So he's here. Zack is here, guys. Zack, can you please come in? Nice. Hey, Zack. A little bit different.

Hey, man. Zack, my man. Beautiful.

Pull this back.

Beautiful, man.

Do you prefer to sit here with Sjoerd, or shall I sit there then?

No, no, I stay. Yeah, I can watch it now. I can watch him now.

Oh man, hey, it's nice to have you here.

Thanks, guys.

And we met by Instagram, by your Instagram, which I hold an eye on. So my dad is not really on the socials, at least not on the public socials, so to say. And but yeah, so I always hold an eye I want to know, I want him to be able to spread his message, to work towards his mission and support him in his mission. And we get so many requests, right, about people wanting to meet him, etc. So I look at, okay, in what way can someone contribute towards this? And then you came up and first it was like, oh yeah, I'll put you on a list and the training together, etc. And there is a whole lot. Story behind it. So very happy that you're here, and I'll just let you take it over together.

Yeah, it was magic. I mean, when you messaged me back saying, would love to help, yeah, I was so excited. And when you called me, because you gave my number to your dad, and when you just called me one day when I was at home, I went around the house like 5 times. I was so happy and so excited, you know.

Amazing.

Because, yeah, I don't really idolize many people, but I certainly idolized you for many years.

This morning I was in the car and I had— what is this? The cool Coldplay. Coldplay, right? The Iceman plays Coldplay, you know. No, but I like the music and the Paradise was on. And when I had a paradise, I was thinking about you, about you guys, and I had to call you. Shit, man, this is what it is. Listen. And then, you know, paradise. We are going for paradise, no less. How? Or parat. Parat is stop. Parat ice. Parat ice.

Exactly. Parat, and the ice comes later.

Yeah, yeah. Yes.

So the listeners don't know why you're here.

Oh yeah, so essentially my girlfriend, she was diagnosed with lymphoma cancer at the end of last year. And yeah, it was just a big panic for us, a big shock. You know, we just moved into our house and everything seemed great. It was like a real-life fairy tale. Everything was perfect. You know, I was so in love. We were so happy together. Everything was perfect. I moved to Holland, you know, and it was just like a start of a new life, a new chapter. And then one week after moving in together, we got struck by this. And it was just such a big scare, you know, for both of us, more so for her, obviously. But when she was at hospital getting the tests done to find out what type of cancer it was— is it cancer? Even though the doctors said 95% certain, I was at home doing research immediately. I'll say, right, I need to stop this before it gets worse, you know, I need to make a body alkaline, get CBD oil and all these different things. And then, yeah, I don't know what it was, but something just clicked in my head. Wim Hof Method.

Yeah, this can help. I'm always very careful in bringing forward these, yeah, towards ailments, right, on autoimmune disease, etc., because Even there is a lot of science of battling inflammation. My dad is a believer, you know, and he sees like miracles going on around him. But I'm from out the company's perspective very careful because—

of course, I mean, I wasn't thinking I'm going to come to Wim and cure her cancer.

No, but still you came. So, and then there's a wall and then I'm there and I'm like, okay, but wait a minute, uh, sec, uh, this is not a pinnacle, uh, cure or, or whatever.

Of course.

But I have seen in our community that people with a low amount of white blood cells doing the method and in combination with food or with whatever, they would be able like to raise it substantially. And that's what I brought forward to you. Like, hey man, okay, you know, don't bring the number, don't give the number and keep it like—

Of course.

Without like, oh, we're going to not do chemo. No, let's do it and see what happens.

But that's what I forgot to mention. We actually had the test done first. Before I contacted you, sorry. And yeah, she was told that she wouldn't be able to get chemo at this stage because her white blood cell count was too low. Yeah, I think it was like 0.2 or needed to be 0.5, for example. And yeah, I can't remember what it was, but something clicked in my head thinking the breathing technique could help. And I think I'm not sure if I heard it from somebody else or if I'd seen something online, but something just clicked in my head. So I try to tell her, I'll say, "Hey, try this breathing method, it's gonna help you boost your white blood cells." But if you think about it, you know, if your partner comes up to you and says, who by the way have cancer, if their partner comes up to you and says, "Oh, breathe for 10 minutes, it's gonna fix you," you're gonna sound like a fucking lunatic. So I thought that's why it would be amazing if we could get Wim on the phone himself, you know, because you're so respected, world-known. 'And yeah, you're the master of this, essentially. If we could get you to maybe just sit down and talk with Melody about how it works, your experience, etc., yeah, she might be, you know, tempted to try this and really give it everything and see how it works with her.' And so, yeah, like, thanks, thanks to you, man, we came, we came, met you, sat in the kitchen, had a really great talk for an hour, went home. First thing she did, getting the cold shower, doing the breathing method. And she loved it, man. She loved the breathing method. She didn't really like the cold at first. Me neither. But no, the breathing, she was doing it every day. Every day was something to look forward to. And I really got into it and was going deeper and deeper into it. You know, the breath holds were getting longer. And yeah, she's actually here now as well. But yeah.

Yes, you might.

Please do come and sit.

Yes, she probably explains better than me.

So for the listeners at home, we have Zach's girlfriend, beautiful Melody, half French, half Spanish.

Yeah.

Hi, welcome, Melody. Thank you.

Thanks, thanks a lot for everything you've done for us, first of all. And it's good for me to share a bit my, my experience. I think at our age, I'm only now 28, was 27 when I was diagnosed, we We're young, we feel invincible, and when it strikes you at this age, you're not prepared for it. No one prepares you to have cancer ever, but even less when you're young. It's been a big shock for me. I think the worst was for my dad, Zach, just to see that they could lose someone that they love too early. It's never good. So for me, the fight with this cancer was always— I had to be strong for myself, but more for the others. I'm a strong person by nature, and I've been always interested in looking at alternative therapies. I was actually considering before we met you to do other things than chemotherapy, but it was worrying a lot my family, so I decided to do the chemotherapy. And we actually came to see you on the day I had my first chemotherapy. And yeah, as Zach said, it was really to boost my white blood cells. 'Cause on the second chemotherapy I had, I couldn't get it. My white blood cells on the Friday were 0.3 and you need a minimum of 0.5 for neutrophils, which are the white blood cells that protect the body from infections. And I did, I think, after that breathing and the cold for 2 or 3 times a day over the weekend. And on Monday I could get my chemotherapy, it was 0.6. So my numbers doubled, which is usually— they would— that's— they told me on Friday, probably we need to wait until Wednesday before you can get your chemotherapy. And on Monday you could get it.

They said you need to come back, we need to give you injections to get you the white blood cell boost.

Yeah.

But yeah, by the time we came back for the second checkup, they doubled and she could— she got the green light. But it didn't stop from there, you know, you continued doing it. The showers got longer, the breath holds got stronger, longer. And yeah, it just— I mean, the results were great for something so simple. It wasn't like she's just beat a cancer because she started breathing or anything. That's crazy. But the results we were seeing from something so simple, 10 minutes a day of breathing and at the time, 30 seconds to a minute in some cold water. That's it. It changed so much.

And, you know, for the mindset, I really saw the benefits the cold shower was giving me the endorphin. When I was coming out of the shower, I was feeling alive.

Yeah, it was fun, eh?

It was great.

We turned it into a bit of a game, you know, because it wasn't fun. I mean, when I did my first cold shower, I was like fighting the water, you know, to try and get angry at it to stay in longer.

How much did you pay them to tell this?

No, it's true. Yeah, it's true.

I almost believe, like, he's paying you, man.

What's going on here?

I actually say that to You're all my friends, you know, it's great. And the breathing for me was just a way, especially at night, to calm me down. I'm a person that's always suffered with insomnia. I will usually take some natural medicine that I can buy in pharmacy to help me sleep. I used to do just 3 rounds or 4 rounds of breathing at night and it would calm me down and fall asleep so easily. So it was great.

So I think this is very important. Yeah, you are a stubborn lady. Besides, I thought when I saw you today, I thought, so actually it's a hot lady who gets cancer and gets rid of it. Even hot ladies are able to get cancer. You know, something like that. You look beautiful and then the world crashes. And what can you do? You can't do anything anymore, especially when your white blood cell count is too low. So you could go aggressively into the chemo because your white blood cells, neutrophils, leukocytes, all these, they went up. And that is something that needs to be heard all over because we have experienced many other women with anecdotal evidence-based stories that their white cells suddenly came up, so they did not have to take away a breast, mastectomy, things like that. They are happy, healed. They can go into the chemo. We are not anti the orthodox way of medicine, but hey, do not ignore that what we are able to do within ourselves. And that, that is our message to the people. Which is really important for everybody to reconsider and meditate on this. There is a power existent, awaiting for us to be activated, and that could help anybody in any situation to be able to resort to that power and change what we think is the perspective. Completely.

Yeah, that's one of the things as well, because I mean, 90% of people I know I've talked with this about, they don't want to listen. They're not interested. It just goes over their head. And like, yeah, this guy's turning into a hippie, you know. But it's real. I mean, take 10 minutes of your day, 10 minutes of your day to try this. I mean, people probably listening to this, I reckon 10% of them probably have never tried the breathing method.

The whole thing is, it's not like a magic pill you take in. You have to do the work yourself. What is it?

It's so— I'll do it later. I'll try it another time.

But I think, I think there's still like— when we look around, you know, we see more and more friends around our age that are getting into at least the cold water exposure. I have seen it, like many people around me that I know never did that years ago have started recently in the last 6 months or the last year doing it.

And the greatest thing I've seen as well is— I'm going to use myself here as an example. The first time we did it here in the garden, you know, the cliff jump and the ice and everything, it was great. I loved it. I did it every day since because it really opened something in my mind that I didn't have before. You know, I've traveled the world. I've had the best job ever. I used to compete at such a high level and had this great life. I used to live the dream.

By the way, guys, who are listening, this is Zac Ainsley. I don't really know what you do.

Tell us, the listeners.

Who is Zac Ainsley?

Who am I, Wim? You tell them. Yes, what am I to you?

Yes, Mr. Olympia of 2018 wants to become Mr. Universe. And the universe, that means we are reaching, we have done it all. He has done it already, all inside. But he is still hungry. You know why? Because he wants to find the secrets of the soul itself, the purpose, the deep purpose of life, the way it really is. He has complied to all the technical details of modern-day competition, aesthetics, and all that, and still he is hungry because he can feel, and he has the best He can really feel what he is missing because he is the best. And there, oh, what is this feeling? I still didn't comply to what really is life all about. So I got a warrior aside of me. They gonna do stuff. We are doing stuff. We are having fun while doing it. Yesterday it was rain. We got outdoor fitness facilities and all. He said, oh, did it rain? He said, fuck the rain. Oh, sorry, my French.

She's French. Hey, I know, I know, French. I know, because every time—

French, part of my French. But there's no French. No, it's American style or something.

Very rude, I guess.

I just wanted to make sure, you know, like, that's not French, man.

French people swear a lot, so I think that's why we do.

That's where you come from.

Passion.

Passion.

Yes, my parents used to say that, like, if I ever swore as a kid, my dad would like 'Watch your French in this house.' Yeah, so it's a very— I think it comes from England, I'm not sure. Oh, so it is. It comes from somewhere. Yeah, of course, man.

Every time saying he speaks French.

But no, I was not French. When I was saying, yeah, I was like— C'est pas français. I think with my— I don't want to say old life, but before I started doing this, with just the cold water, that's where it started. Yeah, I had this great life traveling the world. I was a fitness model for years. Which allowed me to travel to the whole planet doing photography and modeling and stuff.

Show one muscle, man. And hey, look at that shit, motherfucker! Ah, come on.

Yeah, I don't know. I just had this great life and I had everything, you know, materialistic, but I was always missing something, you know? I used to play a lot of poker. I used to gamble a lot because I was kind of— that gave me some sort of a rush. And I was always seeking something. But it wasn't until I really felt the cold for the first time and that feeling, like you said, Afterwards, I was like, oh my God, this is it. Like, it really hit me.

This is exactly what I felt when I was 17.

Exactly.

What?

Exactly.

That joke.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Oh yeah, it is amazing.

Exactly. But I was 17 when I felt it. After 17, I was young, but when I was 12, I was already into Hinduism, Buddhism, into psychology and all. I was a thinker, thinker, thinker. You, uh, you keep on going. It's like a hamster inside. You keep on going these rounds and round and round and round. I got into— I felt attraction to go into the cold water. I did it, and I felt like if you translated that feeling in words, this is it.

Exactly.

And from there I just came back, and this is How many years ago? 45? Yeah, 45 years ago, man. Say I've never skipped a day in the wintertime, uh, not bathing outside in the, in the cold.

Did that the same thing happen to you, Malorie?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, actually, I'm— he can tell you I used to put the water up to the maximum 45 degrees, red. I would come out of the shower red.

I don't know how she used to get in it. You can make a cup of coffee in the tea in the water.

They always say a woman like showering with hot water, and now I cannot bear it anymore. I always shower with like, like less than 30 degrees, 25 degrees minimum— about maximum. And I cannot take baths anymore. I don't take a hot bath.

I had a hot bath a few weeks ago and said, hey, can I join you? Since you got in, 5 minutes later, I can't, I can't deal with it anymore.

It really changed my How do you say it?

The vascular system is completely changed inside.

Yeah, and I'm less cold as well when I'm going outside. I always used to wear a jacket or something. Now I can be like, it's 15 degrees or less, I can go like this, it's fine. I think it increases your resistance to cold.

My mom's a great example of this. Oh, you know, I've talked about your mom. This is a perfect example. Uh, if you guys at home know Raynaud's It's, uh, you know, Raynaud's.

Yeah, yeah.

So she had it for 40 years, you know, since she was a kid.

And I remember it is rigid vasoconstriction. The veins, exactly, yeah, they don't open up in cold weather, so there is less blood flow. Fingers become white and completely white.

Yeah, and painful.

Yeah, she had it like 40 years.

40 years, man.

But wait, hey, all the medical science 40 years?

40 years.

Taking tablets. And pills and all that?

It was so bad with her though. We went to Tenerife and we went on a holiday swimming. It's 35 degrees, man. She went in the swimming pool and it came out and her fingers were white. Completely white. It's just really bad.

It's real physical thing.

We live in the UK, you know, any wintertime she's got like two gloves on, you know, really always cold.

I thought it was just with cold weather.

She was really bad with it, you know, so Yeah, and I don't know what it was. It wasn't like I'd seen it online that you can cure Raynaud's by doing the breathing technique and the cold water therapy. I just had a feeling it would work.

We don't say that, eh? But people say that. People do it and they come up themselves with it.

I had a feeling it would help. I don't know what it was.

Yeah, it was a bit fear-based.

No, not fear-based.

Yeah, company reality. You cannot say you're really.

I am pleased to say.

Yeah, I don't think you can openly go and say this is the thing.

It's good, it's good.

Oh yeah, we can cure everything. Yeah, hallelujah. No, no. Except for my son's disability to be mentally okay. Okay, go on. We just clash sometimes.

Yeah, this is like no bullshit, nothing. I remember I tried to convince her to get in the ice barrel. I had a big barrel in the back garden in the UK. And we were there in December. So it was frozen every day. You had to break it with a hammer. And I would get in and she was like, yeah, you're crazy, la la. And I was saying, oh, you're going to do this one day. She wouldn't. I tried to pay her, I tried to bribe her, I tried everything I could to get her to just try for 5 seconds. She wouldn't go anywhere near it. So then one day I came downstairs and I had the phone to my ear. I was like, "Mom, Wim Hof's on the phone." And he wasn't. And I was like, "Mom, he needs you. He's looking for somebody who has Raynaud's. They're doing a study at the university of the response for the breathing in the cold water. He needs you to do 30 seconds in the water and then the breathing after." see the response.

That's the one.

Yeah, we're gonna bring this one in.

So I, I came downstairs and she was in a—

she's like a placebo effect.

She had a swimming suit on and she's standing there like looking really angry at me. She's like, Zach, I'm gonna kill you for this. But anyway, she got in and she was standing up to her knees, uh, because like a big long, uh, barrel we had. And I was like, just on 3, just get in, 30 seconds, that's it. So she got in, really like went to get out immediately, but She stayed in, she did it. I was like, it's for the studies, you're going to change science and really trying to convince her to stay in. So she did and she got out and she ran inside the house. I was like, quick, get dry, go upstairs, lie on the bed, I'll be with you. So I got the app, the Wim Hof breathing app, played the breathing guide and I was next to her saying, just do this, breathe in, breathe out and don't panic if you get any tingliness or dizziness, it's okay. So yeah, we started with just 3 rounds, and I noticed when she was on the bed, she was completely still, just relaxed. And I noticed when she was lying there, she was doing this with her hands constantly. And then she was like doing this, and I was like thinking, oh, she might be panicking a little bit. So we stopped at 3 rounds, and then we finished. She opened her eyes, and the first thing she said, she looked at me and said, Zach, my hands are on fire. And I looked, and I'm not kidding, her fingers were bright red. She came downstairs, she was touching melodies.

She was like a kid.

After the ice bath, she did her breathing.

She was like, it's been 40 years I haven't seen my hands this red.

And she was taking pictures of her fingers, sending it to her friends, family.

Instead of normally wearing coats and going outside for a moment, she would get white hands.

It showed how much it accelerated the blood circulation and the air in her body.

It was unbelievable.

She couldn't believe it.

So she did this every day. 'cause she was like really shocked. I mean, I was too. I didn't think this was gonna work the way it did, but it did. So she went out and a week later, it was our last day in the UK before we flew back. From a woman who was so scared and refusing like to even try this, she wasn't entertaining the idea, she ended up doing 5 minutes in the ice bath, which we had to break with a hammer. It was so cold outside. 5 minutes. And after the week she came out, didn't even need to do the breathing exercises, her fingers were hot, red hot, and yeah, she's been doing it every day for 40 years.

Insane.

And she called me.

That, that looks like a miracle.

Yeah, she doesn't take a medicine.

Yeah, it's not a myth. Your life is a miracle.

Yeah, but if anyone's done this breathing exercise at home, or the cold water, you feel the tingles in your, in your hands, your feet, your neck. Yeah, you feel it. You know, your body's working.

Stories almost make me want to do it.

Honestly, man, that's great.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can convince the whole world.

Yeah, she wanted to be here today and I was like, tell it, but because I said I was going to come here.

Gonna meet her next week, isn't it? Yeah, then we get some footage and we put it in here.

It seems like a miracle story, but it really is. Yeah, it's insane how somebody who's been dependent on tablets for Raynaud's, which never did anything Is she still taking those tablets? No, no, she canceled the subscription after 40 years. Yeah, man. And she goes out now for walks without gloves or anything, nothing, and she's not had any issues since. Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah, it's really amazing, man.

That's a bloody science itself.

But she really just—

the Raynaud's is a bloody science on the extremities. And this, once again, for the people who hear this, anybody you got in your neighborhood who's suffering from rigid vasoconstriction or Raynaud disease. Raynaud, that's a place, a little place in the south of France. I went past. Hey, Raynaud, here, he came from this place. Yeah, so anybody, because I had Jordan Peterson And he's got people around him who have also this ailment. In Canada, can you imagine? Canada, the whole winter, so much. And now it shows, and I heard this many times, but with Zach and Melody, all these stories, man, this exemplifies just one A couple of guys I know now, I get to know, beautiful people exemplifying for so many who unnecessarily are suffering from these diseases like renal disease, to be precise, and lymphoma cancer, white blood cell too less count, neutrophils, and that's why you cannot be treated. And you do this and it's going to double and then, I don't know, tenfold, elevenfold at a certain moment. I had a woman who did not need to take away a breast without even not giving the guarantee that the cancer would stop after taking away a breast. No, she's still got her tits, man, and she's good because she could be cured and helped through the chemos because this is what it does. No, the world needs to know.

It's anecdotal, but the most beautiful thing is you don't need the fancy courses and the, oh no, we have to buy this.

No, it's a cold shower and it's your breath.

So it doesn't hurt to try.

Exactly.

That's why I want to say, why don't you try?

If you are open-minded, why not? You're not taking anything, you are not doing anything.

Not a replacement of anything. Just see what it does.

It's not going to hurt.

I think the biggest thing I really want to get out there is Well, I did mention this to you before bringing it to Wims, and you were not like, I'm not doing that, but you weren't really buying it, you know.

It was like, you know, I was trying to help, but yeah, it's like, okay, you know, I didn't see how the cold water could help really, or in a way the breathing I could understand because of boosting like the, the white blood cells. I've done science studies, so I kind of understand how my body works. But, uh, yeah, I have a cancer that actually targets my immune system. So for me, it was really like, how much can it help really boost it? And I really saw it. And I saw it also recently. I unfortunately developed what is called bleomycin toxicity. So it's a lung toxicity due to the chemotherapy. And basically mid-February, or mid-February, I started having really bad problems breathing because the One of the compounds of the chemotherapy attacked my lungs and it made me— I was hardly able to breathe. So they found, but only after a month. So for a month I was really struggling. I couldn't do the breathing because the problem is that this toxicity made that my breathing was—

Breaths, very short breaths.

Yeah, it was reduced to 10 to 20% of my capacity. So it was really, really difficult.

So it was like breathing like a hamster all day, like— Yeah, really short.

Yeah, like having attacks where I thought— I said that to Zach sometimes at night, I thought I was not gonna wake up.

Yeah, I actually stayed awake for like a week, was it? I was staying up till 6 in the morning watching her sleep and make sure she was, you know, okay.

Known side effects. And what do they give you, or what do they advise?

Prednisone. Prednisone. But the thing is that before that I was getting an injection to boost my immune system, and after this they had to stop it. So for the— that was when I had maybe 6 or 7 chemos, so I still had like 4 or 5 to do without this. And then I was scared to get back to the second chemotherapy where my white blood cells were too low for me to get it. And I was scared that my treatment was going to be postponed, postponed, postponed until I could get it.

Because of the fear of the short breathness? Yeah.

And just that I was not getting the injection so that I would actually have to just count on my body to create enough of these white blood cells. And I never had the issue. They— my white blood cells were always above 0.5.

And no prednisone?

We've taken the prednisone, but that doesn't impact.

Yeah, it's just to help with the toxicity.

It shows that what I was doing was right.

You were still doing the showers, and we were trying the breathing, but it was the deep breaths every time she did a deep breath, she was coughing immediately. It was like a reaction to the, you know, the deep breaths. But I mean, um, yeah, I mean, no complications at all with the chemo, you know.

How did you feel from, uh, from while going? Normally you need— yeah, you should be very sick.

Oh yeah, yeah.

I haven't been sick at all.

I've told everyone this, she's like the strongest person I know.

Uh, actually, yeah, it's, it's something I was really scared because when you read about it, you're like being puking all the time and out of energy and you lose weight and all these things. I actually gained weight.

You gained weight?

I never puked once. I only puked once because they gave me morphine after surgery. But I never— I have kept my hair also. This is as a woman.

I had a guy who had too much red cells. There's another case. And too much red cells, and that can be lethal because it clutters into the blood. Yeah, too much red cells. And he was with 3 people in the hospital, and those 2, they died. He decided, he decided to go into cold water and do the breathing, and he got out. He got out and he healed himself. His red cell count just came naturally down, and then his hair, which had completely gone white like a black man with white hair, had turned completely black again. I mean, that, that those are— they almost look like miracles, but that's the life's energy that comes with breathing and going into the cold, and then you get belief, of course, because you feel there is a difference. Hey man, I go for more. And then it's not only the cold and it's not only the breathing, it's your belief itself, which is neurology, which is increasing, and you go for more, more. Oh yeah, that, that's the light coming in. And of course, the whole world will say, He's crazy, he's over my head. You better start when you got a problem, who are you gonna call?

Ghostbusters.

No, you're gonna call your grandma, your grandpa, your forefathers, you yourself inside.

That's where I'm at right now, more, more, more. I love it. I text you 3 days ago at midnight I'm like, I can't fucking sleep, I want to climb that mountain now, you know, I'm just—

You see my dad more than I do.

So much, man.

Every time I come here, you're here. You're around the pool or pulling the rocks or chilling or you're together. I'm like, okay, maybe I can get over a couple of things so I don't need to be here. That would be great, man.

Sorry.

No, no, no, no, sorry, it's great. Simply, he is a man who saw it all, who did it all, and developed a mindset to get there. And then he found out there is more, much more than people say there is. Oh, now you miss the Olympia, now you must get it all, you are all, and all that.

I love seeing you, you got a great effect on my dad also.

Yeah, yeah.

But on the other side, also, it's like, also sometimes you guys become boys and do strange things from the waterfall, which I would never allow.

Never did that before. That is because I feel inspired.

I'm like, what the hell is going on here?

That's the thing.

You too, no?

I was like, ah, okay.

I think he came from the stars or something.

She saw the video.

We'll share the video. About what we're talking about.

You can find it on YouTube later on.

Yes. Yeah. But no, I love it here. I mean, I spent the past 7 years training my physique, my body, my exterior shell, never inside. You know, I never trained anything internally, never done breathing, never done anything like this, never done anything with cold. But yeah, once I started, I started seeing and feeling real changes within myself. Strength, energy, sleep, and anxiety.

Yeah, my anxiety, panic attacks all the time.

All the time.

Talk about that. That's enough. Hey guys, listeners, listen to this shit.

I got bad with it. I'm not afraid of nothing, man. I'm not afraid of anything, you know. I'm not insecure. I'm very open book, you know. If I have an anxiety or panic attack, I wouldn't hide it, you know. And I didn't. It happened a lot, man.

Yeah, it happened.

You know, I would wake up at 3 in the morning sweating, freaking out, you know, heart pounding, screaming.

Screaming about what?

It just happened, man. It just happened. It wasn't like—

Random.

I don't think anxiety is—

We would be laying in bed and he starts like, and really agitated, and I could see that he was panicking, so we tried to like calm him down and like just make him like, you're fine, you're safe, it's okay.

Yeah.

And I cannot remember last time you had one.

First time?

Yeah.

I literally can't remember when you had one last time.

The last one I almost had was here.

Was here. With, uh, I have, I normally when I have anxiety, it's here.

But no, this, this was a few months back, uh, when I first started coming. Oh, and it was because we really pushed it this one day. I think it was in January, the everything was frozen, all the water was frozen, and we went in the pool. And I said to Wim, just me being me, I want to be pushed, I want to be challenged. He said, okay, I got a challenge for you, man. You know, we're gonna go and do 300 strokes in the pool. And I'm just like, yes, I'm just like Only 300? I was like, I've done one length once, which is like 10 strokes. I'm going to do this 300 times?

Yes.

Okay. Anyway, so I did it. You know, I really pushed my body and my mind to get through this extreme pain I was going through with the cold. You know, I was not ready for this within myself, but I pushed through it. Wim was doing it, my friend was doing it, and I came out and it wasn't too fresh. I felt great. I did. I felt great. And we went in the sauna, everything is good. But when my body started to go back to its normal weight, yeah, something happened within me that just said, panic, just panic. And that normal feeling I used to have happen to me all the time was coming back really strong. And I was sat there like, oh shit, here we go. Like, I knew it was coming. And I told him straight away, I was like, guys, I'm about to panic because I'm not ashamed of it. And the guy calmed me down straight away. He said, it's fine, you know, nothing's happening, it's all good, you're just warming back up, your body's reacting to this, it's fine. And after that, I felt great, you know, the panic was almost there, it didn't quite happen, but everything they were saying was right. And I remember that. And ever since that day, you know, I've been pushing myself with the cold, with breathing, with training, with everything. Any time this feeling even crept into my body or into my mind, I now know how to deal with it. And since then, it's never come back. Not once. I haven't woke up in the middle of the night screaming or sweating or crying like I used to. I don't get it in the mornings. I don't get these dizzy spells. I don't get these attacks. I don't get the short of breath. I don't get the overthinking of being in public or anything anymore. Or what's he thinking about me? Or this— nothing anymore. It's just clear consciousness now.

Amazing.

It's insane. These panic attacks, did they start—

Shut up!

No, I'm busy. You shut up. Okay, no, no, don't shut up. It's okay.

That means that just at this moment—

I'll shut up.

Hey, you guys understand? The viewers understand? This is absolute mood regulation. That means he has learned to tap into the deepest part of the brain and bring cannabinoids, opioids, dopamines in the moment when he is out of control. That is the adrenal axis activating a deep discontrol. I have no control anymore over myself.

I saw a correlation of like Corona times came, so we are not able anymore to travel. Yeah, to have to perform And maybe it's like you just are performing less, so less anxiety attacks.

Oh, fuck you. That's not even French.

I know, you know what's going on.

Just whatever, man.

Learn about this. This man is sincere in his endeavors and he shows mood regulation and he brings it with beautiful wording because he is very experienced already being very young. And Melody, we have to get back to Melody. Melody, she is cured of cancer and that is beautiful.

Yeah, they do a PET scan to just—

that is amazing—

2-3 weeks on the 11th of June to check that everything is gone. But as I said, I had a— basically when they found out, I experienced big pressure in my chest and I was coughing blood. That prompted me to go to hospital and they found this tumor that was basically nearly 11 centimeters by 5 centimeters.

11 by 5 centimeters, that is this big, guys. This big in the chest, just on my chest, um, pressing on my lungs.

No, pressing against the lungs.

Holy moly.

In the middle here, and I had also lumps here on the, on the side of my neck.

Coughing constantly is waking up.

How much more proof do you guys want?

But that was gone, that was gone.

This is a very clear case. Yeah, young woman, anybody, with anybody it could happen. And this is a stubborn lady, beautiful lady, but also stubborn, her own way, and boom, there it is.

And it came out of nowhere.

I mean, I don't think we need to prove these things. People can take these teachings on.

I just want the people to understand, that's all.

Take a moment, just try it, man. Yeah, I'm get— I get so unbelievably frustrated with people that just don't want to try it. I know a friend of mine, she's Irish, she has Raynaud's. She's always posting on Instagram with white fingers.

Yeah, yeah.

Does anyone know any?

I think there's also like—

I told her like 10 times Why is it fucking breathing techniques?

This is the psychology! That's another issue!

Sometimes it's nice, or not nice, it's comforting to know that you can't do anything about it, so you don't need to worry about it, you know? That's a sort of a victim role. Once you're inside of that, please just tell me what to do, please just let me take that pill. Because it's like too much.

Or they wait until it's too late.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or yes. Until it's too late and there's nothing that can be done.

And it's also like the mindset, like, okay, you believe that, you find comfort even within that role, right? So, yeah, beautiful that you get out of that and, no, I want to do something about it. For that, there's no convincing. We don't need to convince people. People need to convince themselves.

Exactly, man. Right? That's the thing.

That's the most— because it's not some pinnacle cure, like we said before.

It's like, I think it's much more, guys, much more. Than a pinnacle cure. It prevents— it brings you back to the direct connection with your deepest potential, and there is the cure. You don't need cure if you are connected to your deepest potential.

It's not even the cure.

It's— we are not built to become sick. We are not built to be not happy or not healthy or not strong. We are built to do all those things, only we got disconnected.

That's not—

and this Just brings it back. It's no dogma. It is bringing back the connection and see again, to look again to the same problem. Then if it is not there, go to orthodox medicine. But first, take a resort to your own power. But it's amazing.

Just for the viewers, not bringing this forward as a cure, but as a way to get stronger yourself to be able to get into that chemo. And get through it nicely.

Yes.

Without side effects. And that's all on you.

That's the thing. I mean, yeah, 30 minutes a day maximum.

I didn't say, Melody, you cannot take the chemo anymore. The doctors are real evil and all. No. Collaboration, cooperation. But believe in yourself.

Yes.

Believe in yourself now more than ever to reconnect inside the body. And go naturally into the depth, and then the perspective will change. And it showed.

So now that— well, the 11th of June, right? You had your last PET CT scan.

No more chemo. It's great.

Are you still implementing? Are you still doing the— Yeah.

So even more because of the type of cancer I had, it's blood cancer. As you can have cancer in your breast or in an organ. For me, it's like leukemia. Leukemia attacks another type of cells. And for me, the risk is that it will come— it might come back fast, or I have at least 10 years before I can really feel like I'm safe and it's not gonna come back. So for me now, it's also a battle about making everything that can, so that doesn't come back.

Yeah.

So I've— freeze— that's now that's more important actually to do it, even more important.

I tell you, you're aware of it, you alkalize your blood every day, and cancer doesn't like alkaline blood because it, it runs on being anaerobic, like no oxygen. Oxygen makes the blood alkaline, and then the cancer cannot Shave up.

Yeah, that's what I said.

My diet, avoiding any processed foods, sugars. I do a lot of intermittent fasting as well, just because I feel good in my body when I do it.

Combining the cold with intermittent fasting.

All these things that make me feel like I'm alive. I've started a second life.

That it is.

My friend Jancze has leukemia and he also says, 'Hey, Noam, I've read the science and yes, I understand it.' but I can't get into it. And I call him Janche. That means like Jan is Jan and Janche is like, oh, a little Jan.

He's a big guy.

He's huge. But it's the same thing. Like you got to put it in even when you believe it. You have to do the work.

Which is why with my mom, for example, I didn't just give her the app and let her do it herself. I wanted to be there with her to make sure she was going deep within herself with really putting effort into the breathing exercise. 10 minutes, 3 rounds, like really, you know. And I wouldn't be coming on this and telling everyone at home this works if it didn't. It fucking works.

It would damage your profile.

This one is for you.

I just want to help. I want to help you out there. My friend in Ireland, for example, yeah, 3 times she's posted Reynolds-related stuff online. 3 times I've said, please just try it. 10-second shower, do this on the app, you'll see the difference. She just won't try it. Why? I don't know. She must love having white fingers, being in pain. And it's exactly what I tried to do for them to do.

Like, okay, in what way can you get people hooked? Like, and without marketing tricks, you know, it's like get them into an experience. So what I would try to do is, okay, do this breathing and then without breath, do push-ups and know your baseline. You see that they can do the same amount or more.

Exactly.

Then they take a deep breath in and they can continue. Like, that's an experience, right? In what way can you make it like a very easily? So they do that. They experience the cold. We're like the night. The night is dangerous. Don't let your kids go out in the night because, well, it comes from before, right? It's within our DNA even. And the cold is the same thing. We always have to protect ourselves from the cold. 'Put your jacket on when it gets like cold,' or 'Put your gloves on.' So people have like this, this, this, yeah, connection to the cold, like bad.

Yeah, I know. I remember when I first started doing this—

it's beautiful, it's good for you—

we were in the UK and we went for a walk, me, Melody, and my mum, January, February, and I'd just been in the river with my friends freezing, and then we continued the walk and I was wearing just a t-shirt, and at one point I took my top off because I just wanted to feel strong and powerful, and it felt great. And like, by the way, you look great.

Yeah, but that's not it.

I would take my top off if I were you, man. The thing was, I always take an extra sweater with me just in case to cover everything up.

No, the thing was, on this walk, we were doing this walk, we ran across like 5 people we knew and saying hi to, and 3 of the 5 people said, yeah, put a jacket on, you're gonna get sick.

You know, that's funny.

And I was thinking— I didn't say it because I'm being polite, but I was thinking, you're the one that's going to get sick. Yeah, because you're wearing it.

Put your jacket off, otherwise you're going to get sick.

But yeah, I don't like it how the way it is in people's minds, and it's kind of like drilled in there.

It's within the DNA even, man. It comes from generations before. It's like, uh, it's crazy.

It's nice to be warm, but it's not going to kill you to be cold, you know. It's as simple as that.

No, even, even Uh, better. My grandma always said, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

And this is what it is, the best example.

This is what exactly is what for generations they already knew.

This is why I'm coming back all the time.

Take a deep breath, relax, or chill the fuck out. Hey, why does it come off?

Chill out.

Yes, and let's take a cold shower. But yesterday I interpret those things.

I think yesterday is a nice example. No, I use it like now with the with you in the cold. And I said to you, I was like, well, hey man, remember yesterday I was like, I haven't had a freak out or anxiety in months. Yeah. I said, I think it's getting easier. And I said to Wim and, uh, Tahir yesterday, I was like, I really want a challenge. I want to feel that level of uncomfortable again. Like, I want to almost feel like a panic attack is going to come. So, uh, we, we went in the cold, uh, the ice bath, uh, the, the new one, which—

yeah, I saw it, it's dirty now. Now I have to clean it again. One of my jobs.

Yeah, but it has a filter, isn't it?

Yeah, well, apparently it doesn't. So this ice bath, I'm trying to look, um, it's cold, it's freezing, right?

Good.

Yes, I'm testing it out because we want to promote it. Yeah, it's amazing, cheap ice bath, and we have to test it.

It's really amazing, man.

Yeah, yeah.

But, uh, yeah, yesterday I set a new record for myself with ease, and Wim was the one that said, okay, get out now. And I could have stayed in longer.

How long were you staying?

7 minutes-ish, 8 minutes. Yeah, we didn't time it, but it was a while.

For the listeners at home, It's not about the time.

You did it at ease.

Yes, yeah, that's the thing. Controlled.

Yes, that is good. And then no panic. Before that, we went training into the, in the rain, then thunder came and we jumped from the rocks down and we had such a, the, the, I'm singing, you know, Gene Kelly dancing, that thing. We did that yesterday. Like any other kid when he goes from school and suddenly the rain comes and he walks home stamping inside on the street in these, you know, water holes and things because he is so happy. We forgot to be a child and happy, and the cold is able to bring that back to us.

And diving to get the rock at the bottom of the pool.

Yes, I knew that. Yeah, we did beautiful games 5 times yesterday, and nowadays we're like on our little screen. Yeah, play Plants vs Zombies. I love it. This old school movies, like where you saw all these zombies walking, walking up front, it's us today, you know, like walking, like looking at our screens like, what the f is going on?

So many kids, man, like restaurants. This baffled me last month, like I was so angry, but I'm in Holland and the kid was Dutch. I don't speak Dutch. And the pet was with the parents, but they were walking next to the main street, cars on the road and everything. The parents are walking in front of this kid and the kid was here behind them, the big iPad this close to his face like this. It's insane, next to a main road. And I'm with Melody, I'm like, he's seen this. I mean, this kid's not even looking where he's walking. He's got an iPad there in his face, insane, with his parents.

Even my dad does it with his kid, huh?

When he, when he's crying, took the iPads, the iPads.

Yeah, yeah, don't look like you don't do it. Oh, you have not do it?

Not important. I have no money to buy an iPad.

It's not about us. No, it's about the little one right now.

No, the thing was, little Noony, when, what was it, Mario? Take the iPad. Mario, Mario and Luigi, that one. I was the first one to get to the end. He's great in like avoiding confrontation.

I was into it, man, into it.

Of the whole neighborhood, me first. Get up! He did. You gotta wait, you gotta wait until he goes up and you go under.

And that's against Bowser. Yeah, the end boss, you know.

Bowser, yeah.

Yes. So what he did was from 1-1 to 1-2, from 1-2 to 4-1, 4-2 to 8-1. Bowser beneath 5 minutes. Boom. Finish the game like a boss.

I was pretty good at it.

Yeah, I was always like, I then sold the Nintendo. I sold it to one of my 400 guilders.

He became mad. Donkey Kong!

Because he even didn't want me to win in that game. That was my game, you know. None of the games outside, he let me win. That's why I turned out to be who I am now.

Donkey Kong.

I don't care.

Donkey Kong goes through all these worlds, into the mountains, into the snow, and I saw underneath the water. I know, I enjoyed it so much. I was traveling on the screen. Then he sold it.

It was payback. But I did, I did do like a little business then because you never gave me an allowance. What I did, so I sold that computer, was from Donkey Kong, Super Nintendo. I bought a PlayStation.

I didn't give him allowance. I had 25 guilders.

It doesn't matter.

That is €12 to spend every day with 4 children.

Be glad that I sold it because I made a little business with a PlayStation.

When he did his business, his business was okay.

But it's my turn now. I'm just saying something. Let me tell you.

Need a business.

Yes. So I bought a PlayStation. With 10 games which I copied. Just cut him out later. Yeah, cut him out later. I will talk now. Hey, hey, hey! I bought a PlayStation, sold it with 10 games, then bought another PlayStation. At a certain moment, I did my little business at 13 years old. I had my widescreen, I had my stereo tower there with big blasters of music. And while upstairs there was like this little mini television with some butters.

He's a motherfucker, eh?

I learned how to do business there, man, selling your game of Donkey Kong.

And I think it's great. Now you have to remember, look where we're sitting right now. Not for your moral qualities, by the way.

I used to be the same mindset.

I'm sorry, just little things.

I used to, you know, car boot sales? Car boot sales, that's a British way of saying like a garage sale.

Yes.

Every Sunday, people would take junk in the car or stuff they wanted to sell fill a car with it, go to a field, get a table out and sell the stuff.

Very American, no? More British.

More British for sure.

The Netherlands, not really.

I think America, they do it like county— I think they call it flea markets. I think that's what it's called.

Oh, flea markets. We have flea markets.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Car boot sale, because you sell it from the trunk of your car. Yes, car boot. Yeah, in the UK, a trunk of a car is a boot, you know. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. But, uh, yeah, um, I used to go at like 10 years old, and I used to get £2 a week off my grandparents.

Nice.

Uh, which was, uh, to me, 10 years old, amazing, uh, rich kid.

I had to steal 10 cents from my dad's wallet to be able to buy a little candy.

I used to buy golf balls from the, the old people, like, you know, who used to pick them up from dog walking and stuff, because where we lived, lots of countryside. But I used to buy that. There was a golf ball called a Titleist Pro V1. Yeah, and they were the premium golf balls. I used to buy them for like 5 to 10 pence each. I'd come home every Sunday with at least 10 from my £2, at least 10, sometimes 20. And I would go to the golf shop and sell them for £1 each to the pro golfers. And you know, at 10 years old, I was making £20 a week. Yeah, hey, I bought my first PlayStation with that. I bought a Game Boy Color.

You're the same, same, man. That's That's why you're driving this car right now, right? Selling golf balls.

Yeah, that was my first ever job, you know.

If you have nothing, you have to be inventive. Yeah, that's it. Beautiful. So maybe to round up, um, I'm looking at the time and time flies, man. We're having a good time.

Hey, wait a minute, guys, he's gonna climb together with Storm, his friend, the Mont Blanc, the beginning of August. He's training here now with me and showing that we can beat the existing physiological understanding of what we are capable in ascending fast to 5 kilometers high, which then reaches a level where there is half the oxygen, and to do it within 20 hours to the top.

In short, without getting high altitude disease and no acclimatization, right?

No acclimatization beforehand. And completely okay, showing that breathing exercises are able to deal with the existent, with stress coming in any way. In the case of malady, that was the low blood cell, white blood cell count. On a mountain, the stress comes in that there is too less red cells to transport oxygen and it is not able to adapt to the situation. And then you get headaches, you get oedemas and all that, and you can just tackle it. How? By deep breathing. And the world needs to know the power of the breath and together with the ability to consciously use it whenever you got a problem with mood regulation or inflammation Take on your breath and a cold shower a day keeps the doctor really away. Even the doctor does it, so he is not really going away.

So Geert Beuse is one of the researchers at AMC, Amsterdam Medical Center, and he did this test with high altitude training, which you— with your breathing, which Scott Carney in The Wip— well, took it over a little bit without, but it doesn't matter, it's a different story. He did. And what was this medicine called when you have high altitude disease or to prevent it?

When you get acute mountain sickness, AMS, you get some medicine.

We'll put it in the show notes. But this breathing works better than that medicine.

Also with cancers, this medicine, dexamethasone.

Yes. The way I want to end this, is there anything you guys want attention for or to bring forward here to our viewers and listeners?

Oh, really? Personally, I just want people to be a little bit more open-minded and just do things. Just do it. I mean, quite literally, uh, the amount of people I know who have minute issues that could be fixed by even just trying this, who are so stubborn and think they know it all, who are— there are no one-way of thinking. Just try it, please. Get in a cold shower, 10 seconds if that's all you can deal with. Do a few rounds of the breathing and see what it does to you. If you don't like it, at least you've tried it. But I'm positive, I'm sticking my neck out here, 90% of people that try this will continue doing this because it happened with me. My first cold shower, I was screaming, did 10 seconds, Now I'm doing 10 minutes in the ice chamber, no problem, feeling alive. My sleep is better, my recovery is better, my appetite is better, my metabolism is higher. I'm feeling stronger within. My breathing is better. I can hold my breath for 3 minutes now instead of 30 seconds.

I'm still thinking, how much did my dad pay you, man?

I'm doing this every day.

What I'm trying to give here, a hook towards a website from you, or some— where can people follow you guys if they are inspired by you guys, you know.

But I, I don't care about that really. I want to help, I want to help bring this to the world because people need to check in the show notes.

And Melody also, I don't know if you have an open account.

Yeah, it's just, uh, stepping out of the comfort zone, you know, because the problem is that when you have to do it because you don't have the choice, it's harder. If you're prepared before, then it makes everything easier. It makes even the situation, I mean, avoidable Maybe, you know, if you guys, um, I will do a shameless plug.

If you guys want to see more behind the scenes of Wim, yes, follow my Instagram.

Yes, it's not shameless, I asked you about it, man.

But yeah, I'm training with Wim a lot right now, like I said, for the Mont Blanc trip in August. I'm here quite a lot. I live 30 minutes away. So if you want to see how we train together, if you want to see Wim doing more physical stuff as well, just us playing, having fun. Yeah, I post a lot on my, uh, on my Instagram, so you can see more of how Wim really is, uh, behind the scenes.

And please don't— do not follow Zach then, because just follow Wim, Wim Hof, the way we want to show him.

No, it's all good, man.

Thank you so much, guys. It was a pleasure.

Thank you. All the love, all the love. Great podcast. Thank you. It's good information for everybody. Everybody in the world, love you.

Now it's time for a cliff jump.

Yes! Let's do it!

You can find short videos of this conversation on the Wim Hof YouTube channel. If you appreciate listening to Wims Conversations, please leave a rating or a review on Apple Podcast. This way you can help us spread the love and reach more listeners. Oh, and don't forget to hit subscribe. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Wim Hof Podcast, a Monk Studios original.