[EP 16] Power of Intention with Lynn McTaggart & Jack Canfield

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Welcome to another episode of the Jack Canfield Podcast. I'm Jack Canfield and today I'm excited to introduce you to a dear friend of mine, Lynn McTaggart, one of the foremost experts in the fascinating world of intention, consciousness and the incredible power of collective thought. Now, Lynn is an internationally acclaimed best selling author, researcher, and a true pioneer in bridging the realms of science and and spirituality. And her groundbreaking international bestselling books like the Field, the Intention Experiment, the Bond and the power of eight are in more than 30 languages and have sparked a profound awakening, transforming the lives of countless readers around the globe. And as a co owner and editorial director of what Doctors Don't Tell you, Lynne, along with her husband Brian Hubbard, published one of the world's most respective health magazines, which is now available in 15 languages. We'll talk about that briefly today too. But today we embark on a journey of discovery with Lynn, exploring the science behind intention, the power of collective consciousness, and the transformative effects they have on individuals and communities alike. And Lyn's work teaches us that we are all connected and by harnessing the power of our minds and collective intention, we can create a world of unity and understanding. So get ready to be enlightened and inspired as we delve into the realms of of consciousness and intention with Lynn McTaggart. Lynn, welcome.

Thank you. It's great to be here with you, Jack.

It's always exciting to be with you. So let me start by saying that I want people to know that it would take a whole day to discuss all the great things you teach and you know about and the projects that you have going on. But I want to touch on some of the major ones today and lead them to where they can get more information about them if they like, and I hope they will because there's so much valuable information that you have. Your work has been focused on the power of intention, consciousness and the interconnectedness of all things. So let's start by talking about how did you first become interested in exploring these areas and what inspired you to delve deeper into the science behind these phenomenon and then to go ahead and you and write the Intention Experiment.

I got hijacked, Jack. I was minding my own business as an investigative reporter back in the 1990s. My husband and I had launched what was then a newsletter called what Doctors Don't Tell you, which we had launched because I got ill and only got better after researching what I thought I had, finding a pioneering doctor to work with me on nutritional medicine and being so inspired by this. And probably so boring on the subject that my husband said, don't tell me anymore. Tell the world. So. So we started this thing called what doctors don't tell you. And in the process of studying what works and what doesn't work in conventional and alternative medicine, I kept coming across these really good studies of things like spiritual healing. And I kept thinking to myself, wait a minute. If you can have a thought and send it to someone else and make them better, that completely undermines everything we think about how the world works, everything we're told about science. So I decided to try to figure out what this was. And I thought, well, I'll just talk to some frontier physicists doing consciousness research. They'll tell me what it is. I'll write it up, I'll hand it in, I'll collect the check. Great. That was not what it was. That was not what it was. What I discovered when I started talking to these guys was that each of them had found a tiny piece of what compounded into a completely new science, a completely new view of the world. Also, I recognized early on they don't speak in normal English. They speak in math, they speak in code. So I had to decode this all. And they also don't like to venture beyond their experimental data. So I realized early on, with some alarm, I was going to have to put this all together so that the whole idea of a connected quantum energy field became the book, the field. But I was left with some unfinished business, as far as I was concerned, which was some of the evidence they had that thoughts are an actual something with the capacity to change physical matter. And again, being a skeptical journo at heart, I kept thinking, well, how far can we take this? What are we talking about? Are we talking about curing cancer with our thoughts? Are we talking about a subtle effect like moving a quantum particle a teeny bit to the left? And so I decided to write up all the science about intention, which became my book. But it was also an invitation, which was because I had. My book was in 30 languages, the field. And I figured, well, I have a lot of readers out there. Not as many as yours, Jack, but I had a decent number of readers out there. But I also had. I had contact with a lot of these scientists. So I thought if I put them together, I'd have the biggest global laboratory in the world. And that's what I did in 2007. And that really got me started on using group intention, inviting my readers from around the world periodically to take part in intention experiments. So it was, I was hijacked essentially, and have never gone back.

So give us an example of an attention experiment so people that are not familiar with the book may know.

Sure. We've run 40, by the way, to date. Everything from, from trying to make a tiny subtle effect on a leaf to making seeds grow faster, to lowering violence in war torn or violent areas, to healing someone of post traumatic stress disorder. I've worked with a number of scientists at University of Arizona, Penn State, Princeton, University of California, and numerous European ones. And of those 40, 36 have shown measurable, positive, mostly significant effects. To give you an idea of what that means, there's no pharmaceutical drug out there with that kind of consistent track record. An example of a really good study we did was trying to make seeds grow faster. We were working with the University of Arizona, with Professor Gary Schwartz, a noted psychologist. He and his Lab put together four sets of seeds, seeds of 30 seeds each, photographed them, sent me the photographs. They were all labeled abcd. I was speaking in Sydney, Australia at the time, so I invited my audience of about 700 to take part. I had them choose which seeds. Let's say there were seeds A. We held this little intention to try to make the seeds grow 4 cm by the fifth day of growing or something like that. When we were done, we told the scientists we were done, but we didn't tell them which seeds. They planted the seeds. That was their cue to plant the seeds. And then four days later they measured them or five days later. And at that point, only after they did their calculations did I unblind the study and say, oh, it was seeds A. And lo and behold, the seed scent intention grew significantly higher than the controls. We ran that five more times from different locations. And then with my audience over the Internet, thousands of people taking part, looking at the target, focusing on the intention statement, all at the same moment. And every single time the seeds sent intention grew significantly higher than controls. Let's unpack this for a second. We are the first time in Sydney, Australia. The seeds are in Tucson, Arizona, 8,000 miles away. Plus, we're not sending intention to the seeds. We're sending intention to a photograph of the seeds, a symbolic representation of the seeds. So we're still having an effect. And we did that with whatever audience I was from in front of. And that suggested to me a number of things, like we're creating this psychic Internet when we come together to do a group intention. So that's an example of one. We've also had lots of them, lowering violence in war Torn or violent areas. And one of the places that was really impressive, I think, in terms of demonstrating what we we did, was in St. Louis, Missouri, which is officially the most violent place in America. And we chose a neighborhood, a whole section of St. Louis, which was the most violent of the most violent place in America. This time I was working with Dr. Jessica Otz, who is a noted professor of statistics and has done a lot of work in consciousness research at the University of California. So I with this one, I had my audience, which was broadcast over Gaia. We had my audience around the world sent intention to this area for 10 minutes a day altogether over six days. We then got hold of police data from three years before and six months after. And we showed an upward trajectory from before the experiment of St. Louis as a whole, property and violent crime and fairground, that was the neighbor of our neighborhood, violent crime and property crime all going straight up. However, six months after the experiment, St. Louis as a whole, property crime and violent crime continued to go up. Fairground property crime continued to go up. All the neighborhoods around fairground, violent crime continued to go up. But fairground itself, violent crime collapsed by 43%. It diminished by 43%. So we've had a lot of experiments like that where we really carefully looked at the data, even in war zones, and we found that kind of an effect.

That's amazing. I love it. And I remember the work that they did with the TM movement or when they would meditate and you know, I think they had like 8,000 people or something like that meditating in India. And the whole all the number of wars went down, the number of bombs dropped went down, peace treaties went up again, very powerful. So I went to your website and there was a quote there that said, what if you had the power to heal every area of your life and the lives of everyone around you? And then you made the bold claim, you already do, but it has been hidden from you. And I think as people are listening to this, think, you know, there are these great intention experiments that involve seeds and neighborhoods. But a lot of people are going like, well, how do I use this in my life? Talk a little bit about that.

Sure. That occurred to me in about 2008. I wondered. So I'm seeing all this stuff with seeds and leaves and even violence. But what happens if I scale this down to little groups? What would happen there? And we were doing the first workshop in this, and I didn't know what to do. So I'm kicking this around with my husband Brian, who, you know, well, and I'm saying, I don't know, maybe I'll put them in groups of eight or so and have them send Healing Intention to someone with a health challenge. And my husband's a really good headline writer and he turned to me and he said, I love it, the power of eight. And that's how the whole thing got started. We were in a workshop in 2008. We put people in groups of eight or so, didn't have to be exactly eight. And we had them send intention to someone with a health crisis. And we thought it was going to be a feel good effect, like getting your back rubbed. So we had them come back the next day and we handed the mic to everyone who'd had intention and we figured, feel good effect, like getting your face a facial, whatever. And that's not what happened. What happened is they said things like this. I have terrible arthritis in my knee. And I remember that person had been limping in to the workshop and now I'm walking normally and someone else said, I have depression most days and today it's lifted. And someone else said, I have cataracts and they're 80% better. And so I'm kind of freaked out by this because I'm a journalist, not a healer. And I'm thinking to myself, oh, placebo effect, forget that. And I'm ignoring it. I'm thinking, this is going to mess up my important intention experiments. But I kept my, my curiosity was peaked, so I kept experimenting with it. Anytime I had a workshop, I started putting people into groups and I started noticing these extraordinary healings. And I mean, I've had two people get up out of wheelchairs thus far. One person who was paralyzed from the neck down, the other person with multiple sclerosis. I've had people reverse stage 4 cancer. Had a woman last year in a retreat of mine, Esther, who was given three months to live with disseminated melanoma. And she went into a group, Power of Eight group. I put people into Power of eight groups. They did an intention where we were doing our retreat, which was in this amazing stately home in Yorkshire in Britain, where I live. And they went into this lovely 17th century library, did this amazing intention. And she just came out of it saying, I'm healed, healed. And four months later her cancer was completely reversed. No chemo, no radiation, some alternative stuff. But she credits that moment as being the time she was healed. I've seen people reverse genetic diseases, liver diseases. One woman with one ten minute intention. I've seen all kinds of things. I'VE seen people find the love of their life after an intention. And what I started to do after seeing this for a while, for a few years. And by the way, it took me 10 years to get the courage to write that book about it called the Power of Eight, because I was so terrified about what this was, you know, what had I been handed by accident? This power people have. And I better understand a little bit more about it before I start talking about it. And I felt like I'm a kind of gatekeeper here. So I need to know, and I need to know how to tell people to use it wisely. So I kept taking baby steps in those years and trying to figure out why. And also what was optimum. And what I started to do was put people into groups for a year. So I thought, well, I'm getting these effects, but what if I put them in small groups for a year and monitored that and taught them what to do and then just monitored would everything in their life begin to heal and for the people? And now I do this with courses where I work with people for a whole year, and I see an overwhelming majority healing their lives. And that's why I said on my website, you do have the capacity to heal yourself. We all do. But it gets denied by authority figures when we're little and we stop believing in our own capacity to heal. We also are more isolated than ever before, you know, particularly post Covid. And what I have discovered in my other work is, is that people need other people. We need community more than we need to breathe. We need community and we need to connect with other people. And I found, even as one of my students, Jerry, put it, when he was meeting with his group over Covid, over lockdown, he said he felt more love than he ever had in his life. I now know what love is, he said. And that is one of the big pieces of it, is that plus a number of other things I think, account for these remarkable effects.

So people are sitting. I'm sitting here. People are out there sitting here. And I know you've done some healing groups for. We're both members of the Transformational Leadership Council, and we've had people that have had, you know, health challenges. And you put together groups where we've had intentions for their healing and remission and so forth. But when you put people into groups of eight and you say they have an intention, what are they intending in this group of eight?

They're intending for one member of the group, whatever it is they need. So, for instance, in our year Long courses people. Some people intend for themselves. They want to heal one of a number of conditions, anything from stage four cancer to a pain they have on their right hip. Other people want to fix a relationship. So I've had people who come because they have estranged relationships with their partners or their children. I have people who want a new relationship. I love the story of Joy, who was in my class during lockdown. She was in Australia and she did an intention with her group to open up her heart to love. She hadn't had a relationship for years. Out of the blue after this, she gets a call from a boyfriend she had 35 years ago. Turns out they start talking, they start connecting. He decides to fly over there, go through the quarantine and the bottom line is this is the love of her life and they're living together. So I've seen things like that. I've seen people overcome big financial challenges. One woman I know, Bev, was down to her last £200. She was UK and working with her group. She got a windfall. Lloyd's of London provided a grant for ex employees. She had been an ex employee and she got it all the money she needed to set up a new business. So I've seen healing of all sorts, even intractable things like Mitchell Dean, who was a clinical, is a clinical psychologist but has suffered from almost suicidal depression most of his life. Not a good look for a psychologist. So he had tried everything, every alternative treatment, nothing worked. And then he got into a powervate group and worked with the group and they did an intention for him to find the cause of it. And he was compelled then to talk to a Chinese herbalist who said, hey, should we test out your liver filtration systems? And it turned out one of his wasn't working. It was the whole reason for all of that depression and this lifelong problem he had got sorted. So we see the full gambit of things. People can heal their lives, but really gets supersized in a group. Jack. That's been my experience.

I'm going to recommend everyone who's listening to this to get that book, the Power of Eight. But I want you to think about this from or educate us a little bit. So there's eight of us, we're sitting in a group and I want to, let's say, heal my financial situation. So I'm broke and, you know, there's no money I can see on the horizon and I'm really scared. And how would you. What would the group do? How would they intend, you know, there.

Are 13 keys to doing this properly. So I can't talk about all of that, but I can give you a couple of really important hints. One of them is holding the same intention all at the same time and fashioning an intention. So it says our intention is because it is all part of the group. It doesn't matter if you're sitting there all together and in that case holding hands in a circle or if you're doing what we're doing now we're both talking on our. On Zoom and. Or on a, you know, on an electronic mechanism of contacting each other. Most of my relationship groups meet virtually. They meet on Zoom or Skype or whatever. So it doesn't matter. It works just as well when you're fashioning the intention statement. It's vital to be really specific. Of the few that haven't worked, of my intention experiments, they were. Because they weren't specific enough. One time we tried to just send love to water. Didn't work. Water didn't change. When we said we'd like to move it to become more alkaline by at least one pH, then we got a big result. So it's got to be specific. Don't just say, I need more money. Don't just say, I want to li. I want to win the lottery. I tell people, ask for what you need. Don't ask for some stupid figure and don't intend with the whole group together that we all win the lottery. If you need, if you need 20,539 cents, ask for that. Ask for exactly what you need and the group will hold it all together. They'll imagine you receiving this and you hold it. You only have to hold it for 10 minutes. I know other people who do meditations think you've got to get into the zone. You've got to spend an hour or whatever, becoming all connected and coherent or whatever. You don't. In my experience, what I found, and we've done some brainwave studies on this, working with a team of neuroscientists, I found that very quickly, even with novice power beat intenders who have never done this before, never even meditated before, within a minute or two, the parts of the brain that make us feel separate, they're sitting back here. They're the parietal. Parietal lobes. They help us navigate through space. They tell us, this is me, this is not me. They are dialed way down. So are the right frontal lobes. The parts of the brain that make us that are involved in worry, doubt, negativity. They're also Dialed way down, too. So I always assumed that brainwave study, these brainwave studies were going to show that my intenders had brainwave signatures looking just like meditation. And that's what our neuroscientists believe, too. It's going to look just like meditation. It looked nothing like meditation. Meditation shows increases in certain brain waves of the brain. Ours were a decrease. Everything was turning down. What they looked almost identical to was work by the University of Pennsylvania, Dr. Andrew Newberg, who did work studying the brainwave signatures of Sufi masters during chanting and Buddhist monks during ecstatic prayer. So these people were in a state of a mystical experience, a state of ecstatic oneness. And I think having looked at this from every angle, that that's one big piece of it, because we don't experience oneness in our lives. You know, we talk about, oh, role one, and we're all part of the field. Lots of people ask me, how do I enter the field? And I say, you don't need to enter it. You're here, you're in it. This is what you are. But we don't experience life like that. We experience life in separation, being lonely little people on a lonely little planet in a lonely little universe. But we get this glimpse during a power of eight groups. Something about it moves us beyond that separation and makes us feel one. And I get that kind of feedback from the people in these groups saying all the time, I wasn't aware of time. I was crying uncontrollably. I had this amazing heat generated. I felt goosebumps up and down my arms. I felt like we were connected to the whole world. Hear it over and over again with the peace experiments and with the intention experiments and also with these smaller groups.

That's great. I love it. I'm curious, though, you're probably familiar with the Heartmath Institute research on unwinding DNA. Are you aware of that work?

Yes, I am. I am. They do some great work. I love HeartMath and I love what they do and how they affect the vagus nerve. And I'm not surprised about what they've discovered.

Well, what I'm curious about is that in that experiment, what I took away from it, and you're maybe refuting it in a sense, is that they had people sending the intention for this DNA to unwind, and it didn't. Then they had the people send love or just be in a space of love around it. Nothing happened then when they were in a space of love and gratitude and appreciation, and then it had the intention. The DNA Unwound. And I took away from that. You had to be in that space of love, appreciation, gratitude, high vibration for the intention to work. But I think I hear you saying if you get into the space of the intention, it then takes you automatically into that space of oneness. Am I understanding it correctly?

Yeah. I mean, I have a more prosaic explanation for probably what happened. Heart math work, it's work on gratitude, et cetera, has a profound effect on a thing called the heart rate variability. And that is our heart operates with a nice constant kind of variability between the LUD and the thump. And we need that in order to be healthy. And one of the things that it does is it affects the vagus nerve, which is the longest nerve in the body. It starts in our neck, takes a pit stop at every major organ, and it regulates our sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. And when we are fearful or, you know, we've had trauma of any sort or whatever, that can go out of whack, putting us in a state always of high alert when it is regulated, meaning we're in a state of gratitude or love or connection, which is what happens with the power of eight groups with connection. That same thing also happens. So they use one mechanism to heal the vagus nerve, to affect the body, to affect DNA. The same effect occurs with connection work. At the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, Barbara Fredrickson has done a lot of work on group intention and altruism, which is the heart of my work. And she's found that also regulates the vagus nerve, causes that calming that relaxing, that connection. The third part of the vagus nerve is all about connection, love, you know, and, and feeling safe. So I think it has to do with their mechanism of gratitude of regulating the vagus nerve that, that caused that situation.

Very cool. I'm going to go back to community and relationship for a moment. I got into a thing where I was studying this thing called ikigai, which is this term in the Okinawa. These people live to be 105 years old. They're in the blue zone. And, and they say the ikigai is made up of doing something you love, you know, getting good at it, exercise, which they, they all work in the fields and so forth, and then also community. And I watched a video recently of these women. They're like 100, 105 year old, like little junior high school girls just laughing and, and being, you know, kind of, I think, irreverent with each other and so forth. And just, I think that relationship thing is so important. And we live in a culture where a lot of people go to work, they don't talk to anyone, they're in their little cell with their computer, they come home, they watch Netflix, they go to bed, and there's a lack of. Of connection. And I think the power of eight is putting people in the connection in a way that almost everyone should have. A group of eight, I mean, I assume absolutely.

I mean, this was part of one, something I studied in my book the Bond. I was really asking in that book was Darwin right? Were we meant to be so competitively individualistic? And the overwhelming answer in the science is absolutely no. The science shows us that we need to belong, as I say, more than we need to breathe. And community, people in community are protected from everything from heart disease to stroke to even the common cold. You know, joining a group just this year, if you join one group, whether it's a book group, a power of eight group, any kind of a bowling group, you will have your chances of dying. That's how powerful it is, according to Harvard research. So we do. We need to belong. And I think that's one of the hearts of a power of eight group. Another part we haven't talked about is altruism. When I was trying to figure out why these power v8 groups work so well and why they're performing miracles, I started looking at the science of altruism and realized altruism is like a bulletproof vest. People who do things for other people, no matter how trivial, you know, taking out your neighbors, trash, live longer, healthier, happier lives. And also people who focus unduly on the self are more likely to be depressed, they're more likely to be ill, they're more likely to live a shorter life. And so I started realizing that one of the big pieces here was altruism, that people were healing because they were doing stuff for other people. It was that important. And I started seeing it. Jack, on my intention experiments, one thing we haven't talked about, that turned out to be the biggest point of all, I think with these experiments, as well as the power of eight groups, is the rebound effect, the mirror effect. When people were doing intention, let's say, for a peace intention experiment, I surveyed them all afterward and I found the astonishing statistic that has been borne out every single time, that about 40 to 50% of people say their lives have become more peaceful. They're getting along better with their partners or their, you know, children. They're getting along better with their bosses. They're about half, say I feel more love for everyone I come into contact with. So that completely blew my mind. As well as about a third report that they have some sort of improvement in a medical condition or a healing, a complete healing. So I started seeing that. And I also started seeing that among the senders. When people are stuck, when they started intending for someone else, their lives got better. I've saw that. And people who are stuck, oftentimes, I will now just say, get off of yourself. Just start intending for someone else who's got a bigger problem than you and see what happens. And invariably, like that happened with Andy Spyros. She was divorcing, she needed a job. She had two young kids, couldn't get any money, couldn't get any work, was really panicking. Finally, I just said, andy, get off of yourself. Focus on Luke, who was a kid who had tried to kill himself after breaking up with his first serious girlfriend. I had the whole group starting to focus on Luke for about three successive weeks because his parents wrote me about this and the doctors thought he was going to die. Luke actually got out of the hospital in record time. They didn't think he was going to live. And he's a normal kid now of about 21. But the interesting thing is what happened to Andy. The very next week, she gets a call out of nowhere, somebody she doesn't even know offering her her dream job. And I've seen this again and again and again. When people get off of themselves, miracles come into their lives. So that I think that's one of the other big pieces.

Yeah. You know what's interesting? I just did a weekend workshop a few days ago, and I do muscle testing, kinesiology, and, you know, things that make you strong, things that make you weak. You know, you say, I can't. The arm goes weak. You say, I can. The arm goes strong. Things like that. But I added one a couple workshops ago where I said, think of a goal you want to achieve and think of only how it will serve you if you achieve it and their arm goes weak. I said, don't change the goal, but only think about how it will serve others. If you achieve this goal, arm stayed strong. So literally, it's the intention behind it, not just the goal itself. I find that fascinating. And then I've been noticing kind of a pattern. I've been interviewing a lot of people. Sean Acor, who wrote the Happiness books, and also this guy Jeff, whose name I'm forgetting right now, but he wrote a book called the Finders. And the Idea a lot of us are Seekers. And then there are those who are the finders. They find it, you know, they reach the state of happiness and bliss and joy and all that. And one of the things he did, because I took a course with him afterwards, was that he had us every night we had to say intentions. And one of them was, I intend for everyone in the group to find the state of well being. So it's like it was, it wasn't just for ourself, which we also had an intention, but for everyone in the group. And Sean Acor, who was this Harvard professor focusing on happiness and now teaches it all over the world to corporations and we see this all over that one of the greatest things they all teach is go do an act of service every day, pay someone's parking meter, you know, buy someone a cup of coffee, give a pair of socks to a homeless person, open the door for somebody, you know. And so literally it's showing up everywhere now in the literature and in the, in what people are discovering in their experience for happiness, for, you know, reaching a states of. We're talking about, you know, unified consciousness, joy, happiness, bliss. I think it's fascinating.

Absolutely. You know, this is one of the big worries I have about even the term self help. You know, self help. The thing we do, it's all about focusing, as many people think, focusing on the self. I found the study that really spoke to me. It was looked at two groups. One group were people who had everything, you know, they were living the dream, they had everything in life, they had all the money in the world, they went on all the holidays you needed, etc, and wanted, you know, they had, they were living the dream. Then the other group weren't, they were just, they had a lot less money, etc. This first group, the researchers thought, oh, these guys are going to look really good when we start looking at their immune system markers. And they found they were terrible. These people were absolute candidates for heart attack, stroke, Alzheimer's. These guys were going to be dropping like flies. Whereas the other group, which were a group not as affluent but they were living a life of service, they had totally robust immune systems. They were going to live forever. So that science kind of speaks to what you were talking about.

Totally, totally. Very interesting. Now you have expanded the power of eight to, to individuals and all that to now something called the eight revolution. I'd love you to talk about that.

So I'm probably not the only one who sort of looked out in despair at what's going on in the world. And look, looking at our leaders and saying, well, they don't have a clue. So I was thinking one day to myself, boy, I need an army of change makers to start a social revolution of some sort of. And then I started thinking, well, I guess I have an army of change makers. It's all those tens of thousands of little power vape groups all around. What if I brought them together and gave them some free tools to start doing this kind of stuff in their neighborhoods, et cetera. So that's what I've done. I've just invited people to be part of the eight revolution, and it doesn't cost a penny. You can just join my community site that doesn't cost a penny, and you get all these free tools and you can work with power of eight groups, et cetera, et cetera. Mostly they are tools to create more connection and vibrancy in your locale, in your neighborhood. So using the power of intention and other kinds of things to create, to recreate the kind of close community ties we used to have. So that's the plan for it. And I've started, you know, as I say, I've started giving people all kinds of little bits of information and tips about how they can do that, how they can start recreating and reconnecting, particularly with people who are not like them. One of my big things that I'm trying to do now is working with the intention experiments and elsewhere about polarized people, people who are, you know, really polarized from each other. So there's a lot of techniques in some of the stuff I give people about how to talk to people whose views you disagree with, if you disagree with everything they stand for, ways that you can still connect with them and be close.

That's, that's so good. You know, I think that I have a friend, he wrote, he wrote a book called Avoiding Armageddon. And it was a similar kind of thing where he had people gathering together and sending intentions to leaders like Putin and, you know, other people like that, sending them love, sending them intentions for their lives to be happier. I, I, I hadn't planned to talk about this, but I was, I did a plant medicine ceremony in Costa Rica with ayahuasca. And we were asked to forgive the unforgivable. And I couldn't think of who I needed to forgive. I'd forgive my parents, people who've embezzled money from me. And then I, all of a sudden, Vladimir Putin came up. I thought, okay, can I forgive for Vladimir Putin? And then the next thing that happened, I saw into him and really Got what was motivating him is this need to be significant, make a huge difference in, like, to rebuild the Soviet Union the way it used to be, so that he would be this historical figure, like Napoleon or someone like that. And. And it was really interesting that. To see that and then to realize that he's a human being, just like me, and he's very wounded, obviously, and all that good stuff. But then what I got to see, right after that, I walked. My office appeared to me, and I walked in and there was all these awards. Like, literally, it's like a little museum of Jack Canfield and how significant he is. I realized I was trying to prove to myself I was significant, and so I dismantled a lot of that at the moment. But I realized that we were very similar in ways and that I could. Forgetting the point I wanted to make right now, but the idea was that. That we have this ability to forgive and to get into a space of love and connectedness and intending for the good. And I. I didn't know that I could do that with Vladimir Putin, of all people. I know. I started out to make another point and I. I lost it in the story.

I think that was the point. It was the idea of connecting with someone who is so. Not like you, somebody who's so odious in the world that you can get to a point of real understanding and you were able to see inside his soul. So. Interesting.

Yeah. Yeah, it was interesting. And I. What. What happened for me was after that was realizing I don't. I would spend a lot of my life trying to prove I mattered. And the reality is, I didn't need to do that. I mean, I would have done the same things, you know, because I love the work I do, which is training people and opening up their hearts and helping them achieve their vision and live their purpose and get fulfilled and. And do some of the work you're doing, which is healing and so forth. But it relaxed something in me, and I think a lot of people, you know, it's this need to feel like I'm okay, that I'm enough, and I dropped that. I'm much happier, by the way.

Well, you know, I think that's something that we're. All. We're all afflicted with is I matter. Particularly in this world where we are so isolated, sometimes it's hard to know you matter. And also we're in such a society of competitive individualism. Even if you're super successful, there's always somebody who's more successful than you. And, you know, we are so pitted against each other, it's hard not to feel that way. And it's so wise that you get to the point where you're beyond that, which is really brilliant. Everybody, of course, matters. Everybody matters. But we don't have the community to, to acknowledge that all the time.

Yeah. And I think if you're a member of a community and you're fulfilled by that, there isn't this need to feel like you have to do something more, to be loved, to be included, to be appreciated. And I think that's a big piece of it. We're going to run out of time soon. I want to ask you to talk a little bit about the magazine, what doctors don't tell you. Give us a little more about that and how people can get a hold of that.

Sure. Thank you. So I mentioned how it started in 1990, believe it or not, as a newsletter, now a magazine. We for all of that time have been wedded to the idea of examining critically what works and what doesn't work in conventional and alternative medicine. Mainly critical about a lot of elements of conventional medicine that are unproven and dangerous and also highlighting loads of alternative treatments that have far more evidence than they're credited for and that are working and healing all kinds of illnesses. So that's what we did and that's what we do. And our job as we see it, we're both old time journos, we believe it's our job to hold medicine and hold governments to account. We put their feet to the fire and we did that during COVID too. Examining it, looking at the science and saying what's true, what's not true, and that's what we continue to do on just about every medical center subject.

I'm curious, you know, when you, you talk about the field and the fact that it's energetic and we're all connected and it's vibrational and so forth. And then you look at a lot of traditional pharmaceutical work. It's all biochemical, it's depending on these things. And many of them have been separated from their natural source. You know, they'll find something in nature and then isolate something. I got involved in essential oils for quite a while and herbs and natural healing. I take a ton of supplements and, you know, so forth and also meditate and hydrate and take saunas and lots of things that have worked for me. I, you know, I'm 79 and most people would say I look like I'm in my 60s. And I think that's why you do I think that it's the vibration in a lot of things. I mean, you look at homeopathic medicine, it's been titrated down like God knows how far. It's the vibration that's left in there that does the healing. Can you talk a little bit about your perspective on all that?

Oh, absolutely. Well, I brought up my children on homeopathy. There's good scientific evidence for homeopathy that water actually does have a memory, that it has special properties. Its molecules polarize around charged particles and imprint that. It's been demonstrated by a number of physicists and discounted by conventional medicine. I think there's evidence for homeopathy. There certainly is evidence for aromatherapy. Our next cover story is about all of aromatherapy oils that are healing the brain, preventing Alzheimer's, depression, anxiety or healing all of them and Parkinson's. So all of these substances, you know, and after all, oils are made up of a lot of potent plant seeds. Substances are healers and there's all kinds of new and old treatments that have far more evidence for them than most pharmaceutical drugs. And that's the other thing too, is to look critically at what is supposedly proven. But there is so much out there as well as the body's own capacity to heal itself. You know, we're a dynamical organism, organism. And the problem with medicine is it's very linear and very one dimensional. When we take a drug, it doesn't just slot into slot B, it slots into slot C, D, E, F, G. We're all interconnected in our bodies. So I think that's one of the problems with medicine now. It's not sophisticated enough to look at the brilliant dynamism of the human body and how it can, when you give it the right tools, the right food, as you're doing the right supplements, as you're doing the right exercise, detox, all of that, it keeps itself together. It's like those 103 year old ladies out there in, in Okinawa. You know, they're living the good life, the healthy life and it shows.

Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll put all this stuff in the show notes, but if you want to get a hold of this magazine, which is radically cool, wddty.com what doctors don't tell you, easy enough to remember. I encourage you all to, to subscribe to it. I can't wait to read about aromatherapy because I've been a big fan of that now for about seven years. I work with an oil company that I love that has a great, you know, oils and so Forth. I have three diffusers in my house that are all going every day.

Well, there's a load of. If this comes out before Christmas, there's a load of oils you can put up just to keep everybody's moods really high and focused for a lot of Christmas cheer, a lot of holiday cheer. And so all of that is in that issue and more.

There you go. I have to ask you something. I read somewhere that you were prominently featured in the plotline of Dan Brown's book, the Lost Symbol, and I missed that. So tell us about that.

Well, again, I was minding my own business, and one of my editors from Simon and Schuster wrote me and said, I think Lynn is in the plot line of the Lost Symbol. And so I said, having had my head down, was writing a book, said, what's the Lost Symbol? And then I Googled it and I said, oh, my God, it's Dan Brown's book. So my husband ran out to get the book, and lo and behold, he not only sort of developed a character who was doing intention experiments, so it was loosely based on me. A little bit of me and a little bit of Marilyn Schlitz from the Institute of Noetic Sciences kind of melded us together as he does. But he also very kindly put my website in his book, too, and other information quoted me, et cetera, in the book. So it was very funny. I wrote him a thank you and I found out who his editor was. And it turned out his editor was a protege of my editor for the field. And so it may have been that was the way. I think that was the way he heard about what I was doing and then got interested in it. But, yeah, it was quite fun for a while to be a fictional character.

I guess. That's cool. Lastly, anything new on the horizon, any exciting new research projects, anything you're discovering that you want you'd be willing to share with us?

Sure. One thing that is rather interesting that may have had something to do with what of course, happened recently is I started putting together polarized people in my intention experiments. And so with one experiment, I put together a batch of Arabs from eight different Arab cities. So we put cameras into eight different conference rooms in Arab cities. And the ninth camera we put in an audience of Israeli Jews. I had to broker the whole thing because either side, we're not talking to each other. You know, they're hated enemies. So we did this intention to lower violence in Jerusalem. And lo and behold, at the end, and I've got it on video, too, it was a love Fest the Arabs were saying, your God is my God. The Israelis were saying, we love you, brothers and sisters. It was extraordinary. And I started seeing that with every kind of experiment where I started putting polarized people together. Something about coming together in this essentially secular prayer allows the heart to leap across the fence. So the plan next year in the summer of 2014, Gaia is going to host a giant intention experiment with me. And we're inviting Republicans and Democrats in the same room to do intention and then see what happens.

So 2024 just I want to correct 2024. I don't want people oh, sorry.

I'm sorry.

2013. That's okay, no problem. That's way cool. That is way cool because I think the polarization in the world right now in America between the, you know, the mega Republicans and liberals and so forth, blacks and whites, northerners and southerners, vaccineers, non vaccineers, you know, all this stuff and let alone all the different ethnic groups in the world around the country, around the world rather is, it's amazing. So that has that effect and you add that to your eight revolution and you start to put those things together. That is so exciting. I am thrilled by that. That's good.

I am, I am really excited and I carry on, I do that, I carry on courses. I've got my big power of eight intention masterclass course coming up which is that my year long course where I put people into groups, I teach them what to do with intention and watch the miracles unfold.

That's beautiful. Well, I know all your books are available on Amazon. You have a website. Lynn mctaggart.com. we'll put that in the show notes along with the what doctors don't tell you. They reach up pretty much everything you're doing through that main website, the McTaggart.

Yeah, my LynnMcTaggart.com will have that with. We keep what doctors don't tell you separate as a website, but those two are, are my main ones. Absolutely.

Right now we tell all you watching and listening too that there's a ton of YouTube videos where Lynn goes much deeper into all the things we talked about. So I encourage you to check those out as well. Well, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it.

I've had a great time. Jack, thanks so much for inviting me.

Oh, you're my, my pleasure truly. And finally, I want to thank all of you who tuned in today. You can find out more about the books, online courses and live workshops and mastermind groups that I have. They're available@jackcample.com and also, please make sure to let your friends know about this podcast and make sure to join us again next time. Until then, I encourage you to start using your power of intention. Form a group of eight. Get the book, start doing it. You heard it will heal everyone in the group eventually, and it's amazing. And the level of connection and having something to do together as a group besides watch Monday Night Football, I think it's a really good idea to take it to the next level. All right, thanks everybody for joining us. Bye.