Ep. 109- Roman Prokopchuk Has A Positive Chip On His Shoulder

This is the You Winning Life Podcast, your number one source for mastering a positive existence. Each episode we'll be interviewing exceptional people, giving you empowering insights and guiding you to extraordinary outcomes. Learn from specialists in the worlds of integrative and natural wellness, spirituality, psychology, and entrepreneurship so you too can be winning life. Now here's your host, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified neuro-emotional technique practitioner, trainer and certified entrepreneur coach Jason Wasser.

Hey everybody, welcome back. So about a year and change ago at this point, I ended up at my first podcast conference. It was Podcast Movement and it was held in Orlando, uh, the middle of the summer. And I had no clue what I was going to be walking into. I had no clue that this podcast thing was as ridiculously large and as successful and as popular as it was, because when I got to this thing, there was about 4,000 other people hanging out there. And my guest today is a person that I got to meet the night before the conference started. I was meeting up with my buddy Pablo González, who has already been on the show, and, uh, started networking and started hanging out and talking. And today's guest has been— was one of those people that right off the bat I met and still in touch with today. Um, in fact, the last month and a half— we're gonna get into this— he's been hitting up Clubhouse, which is the app that everybody's been talking about. And by the time you're going to hear this episode, it's going to be probably on your phone if it's not already. But Roman Prokopcik— ah, Roman, say it for me because I'm going to screw it up because I'm trying.

Roman Prokopcik.

Prokopcik, right? It's that Vaynerchuk, Prokopcik. So I already— we already pre-gamed that. I'm like, I'm probably going to screw it up anyway. But Roman is just an incredible, incredible digital marketer. He is the host of the Digital Savage Experience. He is a foster dad who's had over 25 kids since 2018. He's in the world of digital media marketing, just an all-around amazing person. Roman, I'm finally so happy after all this time to have, have you, have you hanging out with me.

Thanks for having me on. Yeah, and I had you on, I guess it was a while back, as that connection. So I appreciate you bringing me on.

Yeah, it's one of those things where, like I was saying like, just because we may not have been in immediate touch on a day-to-day basis doesn't mean that, like, you know, I, I always see your stuff on social and I'm always, you know, positively happy for all the successes you're having, so happening, having and happening for you. Wow, I can't speak today. But it's, but it's good to actually have you face to face again in front of me. So, so there's so much I want to, I want to tackle into. So let's write off the last name pronunciation, right? Immigrant and immigrant families and, and success being a success. So let's I would love to go into that little bit of that immigrant story to, you know, to help people understand where you're coming from and what's led you to being the butt kicker that you are today.

Yeah. So I immigrated from Ukraine in 1990. We went through Vienna, Austria, Rome, Italy, and then got to the US. We had a sponsor here that was a distant family member with 6 other family members to a 2-bedroom apartment. Ukraine was still under the Soviet Union, gained its independence in 1992. We really left because of one reason: they opened up in terms of kind of the border, less stringent. I think it was the perestroika, you know, the Soviet Union started collapsing slowly. And really, I guess, religious persecution as well, because in communism, you, you know, you kind of serve the state, and there is no religion kind of observed by the state. And my family still went to church and all that, so had a lot of rights infringed on and things of that nature. So that was another reason, you know, you know, why we came over here. And I think that's what adds a lot of people from that Eastern European background. If you see a lot of startup founders, unicorn company founders, 'cause I think they have that extra grit and that, I guess, chip on their shoulder in terms of coming here and making the most of, you know, what they're given.

For sure. So my family, I'm not sure if we ever discussed this, but my grandfather, my dad's dad, came over after the Holocaust, right after Nazi Germany, moved to Scranton, Pennsylvania. So not far from your neck of the woods in Jersey, and started a furniture business there. And it's now third generation. It's now here in South Florida. My brother and sister have pretty much taken it over, but that immigrant hustle, that grind, you know, I know Gary Vee is very famous for that chip on his shoulder type of mentality and talking about it. But I love seeing and hearing that, like, there's such a passion for being successful, being healthy, you know, I know that, right, your faith and your religion is very important to you, right? I'm Jewish and my faith and my religion is very important to me. And I know that, like, you know, one of the big things for you is your family. And that's like, you know, it's very front and center for what you're doing, not just being a business guy, but your family stuff, your family life. You're very open about that, you're right. And so talk a little bit about that and, and, um, a little bit what's going on in your lifestyle, uh, due to those passions.

Yeah, so after we met at Podcast Movement, I feel like I hyper-accelerated everything— my show, uh, doing interviews, the things that I've been sharing. So in 2020, I had a goal of going on 40 shows sharing various things, things I'm passionate about, like foster care reform and different things in terms of advocacy, my, you know, professional life. But I ended up doing 75. So I did 75 different podcasts and publications, which led to a lot of cross-pollination and growth for my show. But that family, like you mentioned— so my wife and I got married, we, you know, wanted to start a family. Then we went through an infertility journey. We found out my wife has endometriosis, which makes it difficult for, you know, her to carry a child to term and get pregnant. So we went the infertility route. So we spent, at this spent about $100,000 out of pocket, and, uh, we went through 5 miscarriages, 2 of which were back-to-back Christmases. With now Christmas has that kind of negative connotation after— actually, the date of this recording yesterday, we did our 6th embryo transfer. So hopefully, you know, that goes smoothly and everything works out. But in that kind of pain and grief, we saw that maybe, uh, foster care would be an option to, you know, help kids and grow a family. So technically, we're foster to adopt. So we got licensed May 31st of 2018, and then June 1st of 2018, we had 2 children dropped off and it's basically like, here's their stuff and figure it out. So since then, that first placement was positioned as we were going to be able to adopt them. Parental rights were going to be terminated of their biological mother. But after a year, you know, a case can change overnight. So they ended up being reunified. We're actually proud of the mom. We're here as a resource. She did everything they need or she needed to do. And they are being taken care of well. They're healthy and happy. So we love seeing situations like that. But obviously we have that kind of thing in the back of us where it was a heartbreak because they called us mom and dad. We had him for a year. And then since then we've had 23 other children. So in total, 25 kids. We've had 4 children for most of COVID So I've done several interviews in terms of COVID and how it impacts the foster care system and foster parents, because at one time my wife was facilitating 22 hours of Zoom calls between our 4 kids, which is another full-time job. So then I saw in terms of the space. So one, there weren't a lot of men talking about going through miscarriages and their point of view and opening up in terms of like, you know, not being as maybe emotionally available to their significant others in the process or just what they were going through. So I started sharing about it. At first I was uncomfortable, but I saw it added value. People reached out that it actually like helped in terms of what they were going through. And then I started sharing about, you know, the foster dad perspective, what I'm going through, sharing a lot of content on social, going on interviews, and it's really positively impacted that the most thing I wanted to do through that is really, you know, advocate in, in terms of foster care. There are a lot of cracks in the foster care system. So bring about foster care reform as well.

So let's rewind back because you use the word termination of parental rights or TPR, right? Walk people through who've never heard that concept before. And because like you said, you had for a year and they give the opportunity for the parent to work on themselves, go to therapy if there's any drug addiction to get sober and clean, any job instability, stuff like that. Um, walk us through what that process is like and what someone who's never heard of that concept, just the basics, you know, what do they need to know so they can be aware of that this is a thing and be, you know, and also maybe be sensitive to someone who they might know going through this on either side, right? It'd be either they're like someone like you who's taking, you know, fostering children or a parent who, God forbid, might have to go through this process, you know, on their own when they're having a child that has to go to foster care.

Yeah. And, and just to be clear, not every parent or guardian that for a brief time may have their children away from them doesn't mean they're a monster, a bad person. And sometimes it's they're trying to work on their own things, their, you know, mental wellness, things of that nature where they never, you know, abuse the children, nothing. The children, if they've seen it, it's just them. They have to work on it. And, you know, they get their kids back and they move past that chapter in their lives. But, you know, some situations, the kids have been abused, have seen abuse. So that's a situation where, you know, they may not be going back to those parents or guardians, might be other family involved. But in terms of termination of parental rights, it depends why they were taken. So that person has to make the adequate steps to demonstrate that they can care for the kids and hopefully show some kind of, um, wherewithal that they may not do it again. Obviously that's hard to project, but they have a certain things laid out, uh, by the family law court and the judge that oversees the case in terms of things they have to do. Like you said, therapy, uh, parenting classes, secure a job, hold the job, uh, hold an apartment or a place of living where it's safe for the children and other steps, um, in relation to their case. Usually the clock starts on day 1, and usually a case lasts for a year. Sometimes you get extensions, but midway point, they usually see if an extension is going to happen or what— where the case is going. If like they're doing absolutely nothing, they disappear, they don't come to visits, then they may start thinking either kinship or moving to another family or friend as an option if someone agrees, or termination of parental rights and then positioning it wherever they are. So we're foster to adopt. So we have a child in our home and parental rights are terminated of the child. The Division of Child Services would come to us first and ask us if it's a good fit, are we willing to adopt? So there's different things in a case like that. So halfway point, if a case turns sideways, we have to kind of reevaluate the direction of the case, if it's going to reunification or termination, basically.

So when you guys were deciding that you wanted to do this, this is a big decision. This is you know, it takes a special heart and a special soul. And, and I wish that, um, it's such an important thing because this has been, uh, having worked in foster care, uh, before I even was a therapist, one of my first jobs when I lived in New York was working in a group home. And, and it was usually for kids who grew up with domestic violence or sexual abuse. I think majority of them had some form of sexual abuse, um, and it was specifically in the Jewish community. It was in, uh, in Brooklyn, uh, in an amazing organization called Ohel. To have to, like, you know, day one, right? Even though these kids might have challenges and, right, you still, like, your, your heart breaks and your heart opens up. Um, and these were high school kids, right? Middle school, high school kids. So they were already older and, you know, been through a lot. Where in your journey of, you know, was this something that you were already open to when you guys were dating? Is this something that, that came out only because of the infertility challenges? And what, like, what really led you to be like, all right, our hearts kids, you know, our hearts, our minds, and our spirits can really— we're really into this and we really want to do this.

Yeah. So I guess it started as a result of the miscarriages as a possible way to, like I said, help kids or start a family. But if you ask me, you know, 3, 3 and a half years ago, do you foresee yourself being a foster parent, let alone fostering 25 kids? I would think— I would say you're crazy. So it's one of those things where you don't know necessarily what you're capable of or how you're going to react to something or where you can take something unless you get thrown into the situation. So outside looking in, you can, you know, that's not for me, or you know, I can never do that. I don't have the time. I don't have the patience. But yeah, I mean, you'd be surprised if you kind of reorganize your schedule a bit, you can still kind of do your things professionally. I mean, I have my office from home, which has been advantageous during this whole pandemic, work from home, whatever situation. But you'd be surprised when you move a few things around what you are capable of and, you know, what you can give to others and be of service to others as well.

Yeah. What were some of the things that you were most shocked to learn about yourself, about your wife, and about your, your, your marriage in a positive way because of these experiences?

Yeah, I mean, the miscarriages we, we had to go through, you know, we went to a therapist and tried to talk through it because like I said, I think not every, uh, man does it, but myself, I kind of shut down. I mean, Eastern Europeans have like a stereotype that they're stoic, they don't show emotion even though they may be happy or feeling it. They're kind of like, you know, like a piece of like— yeah, yeah, it's, it's not, it's not visible based on, I guess, the culture, that kind of Soviet Union, you know, communist upbringing where, you know, they kind of frowned on that. So I mean, I have that to work through in terms of like networking and communicating with people to begin with. Um, but I think I had to do the therapy because I wanted to really have a mediator or mediation in terms of somebody that talked us or walked us through the process to show how I really feel, that I do care, that this is my way, that I feel kind of helpless because, you know, she's primarily dealing with it and it's her body feeling all the pain and taking all the needles and everything else, all the treatments and procedures. So I wanted to make sure I conveyed that. Obviously, when you go through something like that with someone, it automatically causes a rift, that pain. You can start lashing out, you know, being angry, resentful of each other, kind of, you know, why us? So it took a while to work through that. And I think like as a result of that, it led us to something which still is, is an effort where you kind of like get a child put in your home, you start caring and loving them, and then all of them have moved on. So it's, it's even, I guess, more conflicting because it's one of those things, I guess, when we lost a child in terms of a miscarriage, you know, we know they're in a better place and we can reflect on that. But having a child that's alive and you physically don't have any more communication with them, if that biological parent doesn't want it, you just think in the back of your mind, are they safe? What are they doing? You know, are they, you know, living up or, you know, learning from what you've taught them and taking kind of the right path? So that, that aspect of it is difficult. A lot of the time we have kind of bridged the gap. It's called where you're like a resource to the biological parent or family, where when they do get reunified, you have that contact. If they need help, they lean on you as a resource. So actually, we did have, uh, two children. They were reunified to the dad, but the dad kind of took them to Tennessee and left the state and left the mom high and dry because during their case, the mom was rehabbing and But mom came out and finally was able to kind of like move on past that. And for months and months, you know, was clean. So we actually said, listen, we're going to be a resource, come over, we're going to do like Sunday dinners, and you can talk through things with us and just have us as a resource. So she's been doing that. And my wife actually, she put something on Facebook, so she offered legal, legal solutions for her that she didn't know were available. So she got an attorney. So now, you know, the person is forced to bring him in state and really took the legal matter. And my wife kind of gave her those pointers and referred people. So helping her with the legal process and just anything she needs. And we're like open and willing to do stuff like that. If we see if somebody reaches out, maybe they don't have food on the table, we'll, you know, drop some groceries or winter coats or help them out with rent or something or take the kids to Six Flags or somewhere. So we're always a resource and happy to kind of bridge that gap as well.

Do you think that, right, obviously faith, spirituality is a big part of, of this, right? Because everything you're talking about, you know, is, is so biblical, right? Is everything, right, of going above and beyond and make— helping with food and putting clothing and all the things that, right, the kindness and the charity and the love that we're supposed to do for, right, for everybody around us. Where do you think that, like, if, you know, as your faith journey has evolved, where and what points has that been the most the crutch for you to lean into? And what are some of the takeaway things that kind of have helped you the most in in some of those most challenging situations from, from that spiritual perspective.

Yeah, outside of that, I think that's led me to be a more like heart-led entrepreneur and thinking about legacy over kind of maybe when I was younger kind of chasing titles or, you know, bonuses or stuff like that. So I think it's one of those things where like the best view of someone or show someone like, you know, Christianity is to try to live and portray Christ in your own life in terms of your actions and what you do. And I mean, it all plays down just to be a good person the way I was raised, and what you can do for people, and taking the, uh, basically approach, you know, these kids and the people we help, they're in the community, they're in your community. So if you want them to be raised right, or give them some kind of core values, or be a great male role model that they don't end up, you know, drug addicted, behind bars, or situations basically on, uh, statistics, kids that age out of the foster care system, meaning, you know, parental rights were terminated, they weren't adopted, and they've been in the system 18, they kind of get cut loose. Most of the time they're not necessarily told about the resources they have. They have like a 60 or 70% chance higher to be human trafficked in gangs, drugs, and things of that nature. If you look at incarceration rates, which was crazy when I found out, I believe 60% of those incarcerated in terms of males in the US have been in the foster care system at one point or another growing up. So, they may have not had a positive experience. They may not have a male role model. So, I think it's important to, you know, foster a safe, you know, home or environment, be a positive role model that like even if they're in your home for a day, maybe a month, a year, just being like the foundation of something that they can look up to that may, you know, steer them away from a, you know, a negative outcome in their life.

There's so many experiences, I think, from where my parents got divorced when I was in high school, thank God. And I would have— yeah, I don't know, whatever. I was joking, I would have killed them if they didn't get divorced. But it's, it's one of those things where I had a community around me in the Jewish community that helped me go through it. I went from public school to private school, uh, and my tuition was scholarship from people in the community. Um, and then when I was in my youth group at synagogue, I couldn't afford my— you know, my parents weren't, uh, yeah, my mom wasn't able to pay for all the amazing activities they offered. And I showed up after school. I remember Joel, who's, who's I'm still very, very, I actually met with the other day. So we've been since I was in middle school. So now we're talking about over, you know, 25 years or so more at this point. The idea of like, just show up to help me out around the, help me out and we'll take care of everything, right? And this is a person who I have lifelong friendship with. And, and the community does help put me into a place of like knowing, A, that I can be a resource, not just be a taker, but I can also be a giver in exchange, right? It's, it's a, that, that there was that mutual— like, if I show up, I do work, I can help out, I'm going to be given something, and there's value of having me around. But B, also like probably led me into doing what I'm doing now as a therapist and like helping people find their inner potential in themselves when there's a lot of chaos going around outside or inside themselves as well.

Yeah, I think it's important also from the perspective of finding a tribe that have had similar experiences to you. So before we found like a support system of other foster families and foster parents So there's people looking, you know, from the outside in, you know, what you're doing is admirable, but they don't understand the day-to-day, the struggles we have with the system, the struggles we have with the kids, case to case, or whatever your experience is. But when you find somebody that goes through the same exact thing, you have that automatic bond and you can really be a resource and a support for that person. So we have like 2 or 3 groups at this point, obviously with COVID that kind of infringed on us meeting in person in New Jersey, but, you know, it has been great in terms of kind of networking, being a support system and just kind of, you know, educating the general public together because a lot of people see, or their perspective of a foster parent or the foster care system is what they see on TV and in the media. And oftentimes that's a, you know, negative portrayal or, you know, depiction or the understanding of what, you know, actually means to be a foster parent in, you know, my state or in the US.

Yeah, I think I, about a month ago, I messaged you, I'm pretty sure it was, right? That about my buddy who's a rabbi, who was right. He's, he's also in the foster care community out in Arizona. And he had a few kids that came to him right before the holidays. And, you know, even though he's a rabbi and he's Jewish, they were not, they were Christian and he couldn't take them to a COVID safe way of going to meet Santa. So he, someone sent him a Santa Claus outfit and he dressed up and he surprised them. They had no clue. They, now they were young enough to know it wasn't him, which was really cute. And that was it. Ricky gave them a whole Santa experience. And just profoundness of the fostering community is mind-blowing to me because the amount of like— it's like if you don't think you can love enough, how much infinite capability we have to be able to do for something or somebody that we care about, that there's no limit.

Yeah, that was one of the things we can— well, we talked about like the experiences of my wife and I in terms when we were going through it, one thing before we started, we thought, can we love another child, another person's child, as much as we would love our, you know, own biological kids? And I think the answer has been a yes. And it's been amazing kind of the bonds you form and how quickly you form them with kids that, you know, and how resilient kids are, especially the kids we have, 2, 3, 4 years old, to kind of overcome the situations they've been in and then able to kind of like still be kids. Still able to smile and kind of heal in that sense. And it's awesome to be part of that developmental process and really like assist in the healing. And other people notice it. The division notices it. And even some kids that have come from other foster homes that situations like they've been in there for several months and never smiled and they come and then the caseworker visits and they're, you know, running around smiling, laughing and so on and so forth. I think it's, it's really rewarding seeing those kind of transformations as well.

Yeah. And meanwhile, while you're doing all this, you're running a very successful business. You're in the digital marketing, social media marketing. I know that you, you talked about how it was a necessity for why you, you did this, right? It was the first economic downturn. Was it 2008 or so?

Yeah. So basically, I interned with the Secret Service, held a top-secret federal clearance last semester. So it was 2007 going into 2008, the last like few months of Bush's, uh, presidency. And then I thought I was gonna go the criminal justice route, mainly probably federal. So like forensics, things like that. So like if you watch like Criminal Minds, stuff like that, uh, profiling really interested me. And I think there's a sense of that in marketing too. You really have to know your segment and avatar and that kind of thing. So basically state, local, federal agencies stopped hiring, the recession hit, you know, I was unable to, you know, find anything. And another reason I saw at the Secret Service, basically every few years you move posts. So in terms of your director of that office, if they have a grudge against you, they'll send you to like Anchorage, Alaska or Fargo, and you have to rot there for like a few years. And then one time you have to do the kind of Washington, D.C. detail. And the Secret Service actually has a dual role. So protective and in terms of counterfeit currency as a resource and investigative unit for the Federal Reserve. I was on the counterfeit currency squad. So basically taking those, uh, potential fake bills, processing them, serial numbering them, and kind of sorting them in a way. So when I saw that, I didn't necessarily want to go that route either, but, you know, not finding a job 10, 11, 12 months, and really the only thing I really, uh, that kept me sane, you know, was going to the gym. At that point, I was kind of down and depressed. I had to get that kind of frustration out somewhere. And then one day I saw somebody from, uh, that I knew from school, from, from university, from Rutgers. That I worked out with a couple times. They happened to start going to that gym, and then one day they said, come out to my car, I want to give you something, which could have went, you know, several ways. Yeah, yeah. So I went out, I was like, why not? And they opened their trunk and handed me a packet about search engine optimization, and they said, read up on this, take another month or two, and you can start doing it for my business. So out of necessity, I saw I had nothing to lose, and basically I learned. So everything I know is self-taught and really in the trenches. I think if you look at digital marketers, there's a lot of people nowadays that are generalists that read something and speak on I've been kind of fighting in the trenches on over, you know, 600 clients, numerous campaigns, different categories, different verticals, have ran teams, directly managed, you know, teams of 15 in different spaces, worked with Fortune 500 clients, and that was all like from me wanting to do it. So no formal education, and I think something like digital marketing, it's really hard without experience. So I went to speak at the College of New Jersey to outgoing class of digital marketers, and it was like deer in headlights. I had to do like a tear it straight thing. Like, dude, you guys don't necessarily know the real world, what you're going in. Just like, you learn this and it's kind of fluffy in my opinion. So I don't know if the professor or that, uh, department head really appreciated that, but I was just trying to like prepare them more than I wish someone prepared me when I was in college. So yeah, that's situations like that. And it's something that I'm passionate about. And the one reason that I've been in it for so long is it's an ever-changing field. So I'm like a, I guess, a futurist in that sense. So I find emerging media and then figure out how I can utilize it for clients and add to that digital marketing stack and how they can reach their target audience on those platforms as well.

So what are some of the misnomers, right? Because everything, like you said, everything changes. A few years ago was SEO, SEO, SEO. If you don't have SEO, right, you're missing out. And then it became AdWords, right? Or maybe it was one or the other, probably maybe at the same time. But then, right, everything kept— then became social media and creating digital content like, like you and I are doing. And now the new, the new thing, especially for for iOS users is Clubhouse, right? And you have people who are like, ah, this is BS. What am I going to do on this thing and whatever? And people who are insanely, insanely leveraging it like you and I, like the early adopters. And this is one of the few things that I've early adopted, that and Dogecoin is one of the two things I'm early adopting on right now. But the people I'm now getting in front of in the last two months since I've been on it, I think I started over Christmas, Hanukkah time, right? That week that I took off from work, the end of the— between Christmas and New Year's. And I was on that app all day on my vacation. And the other day, this blew my mind. The other— it was not even a week ago. I finished a podcast interview. I went on between that and a call I was having with a friend for— I'm like, I'm gonna go on for 20 minutes. And I'm scrolling through rooms and I see a room on something about how to streamline your social media marketing. And there was 12 people in the room and the name Matthew Hussey was in there. I don't know if you know who Matthew Hussey is. Jason Wasser, the guy who's like the relationship dating guru, probably the most watched YouTube videos on dating and relationships. And it was just him and 12 other people. And I'm like, okay, same guy, right? So I went in, literally it was him. And he sounds like he was finishing answering something and no one is asking a question. So I, you know, pop my virtual hand up and I ask him a question. And for the next 10 minutes, I'm having a conversation with him on streamlining, you know, what it was. And I'm like, where in the world would I be able to to, you know, get in front of him when he's one of the most, you know, sought after to be speaking. He's all over TV and New York Times bestseller, to have that leverage. So let's talk about, from your perspective, what are some of the things that have been misnomers that people have been focusing on that they probably shouldn't be focusing on, and where they absolutely need to be focusing on as we're in the beginning of 2021?

Yeah, so I am a proponent of testing, at least trying something, because you never know if it's gonna pop or you're gonna to your target audience or how they engage or interact with you on a specific platform or with a specific effort. So it's also kind of push and pull, organic and paid. So I am still a proponent of everything organic in terms of branding, in terms of search engine optimization, because I think your website is the pillar and building block of kind of your presence online. So being visible organically is key in that sense. Your social media is extension of your brand, but you don't necessarily have to go heavy on platforms that, you know, aren't adding value. You can still have a regular cadence of content, but not investing an overarching amount of time. So if you're not necessarily big into Twitter, it hasn't done much for you. And if you tested it, yes, you should maybe put out organic content once in a while, but test features, especially that still have an uncapped organic reach. So I kind of knocked TikTok for a while, but from the digital marketing standpoint, I started, and the only content I really put on TikTok is foster parent, foster care related advocacy stuff and my experiences, and then stuff for my podcast. So this is the investment in terms of an example. Other, I mean, other people have gotten more numbers, but I think in terms of something that had me invest a minute to record and a minute to edit, 2 minutes, I got 120,000 views. I think a watch time for that 60 seconds of about 1,000 hours, like 5,000 likes. Makes like 600 comments, and that only took me 2 minutes to create. So it's just value-add. And if it's falling into your kind of regular process, and what is it doing for you? Now, that video led to different publications and podcasts reaching out to me directly and saying, hey, I saw your TikTok, can you come on, can we call you for a quote, so on and so forth. So you don't know what you put out there, how impactful it is, or who's going to see it. So I I think it's important to have a solid social media strategy from that standpoint, or even like TikTok. So TikTok created stories to directly combat Snapchat, which I think they did a good job with. Now they have Reels to really combat TikTok. And right. Yeah. Yeah. So Instagram have Instagram Reels to combat TikTok, but TikTok's too big at this point. But organic reach on Reels is exponential like it was on stories before because they want more content flooding in there, more creative. Creating content and other people obviously drawn and engaging with that content. So that's a play where you can get a lot of reach on the platform where it's— it may be a little harder traditionally because organic reach is somewhat capped on the platform. So usually the model is, you know, a platform needs creators and content. When it gets a certain amount of content, then they can monetize and market versus that content because they have a large enough set that you can reach enough people. So when you get to that saturation point, organic reach starts getting capped and then they push you to a paid model, like even on Facebook. So if you post something, 100% of the time, only a certain percentage of your actual people on your Facebook feed are only going to see it. You would have to boost it to encapsulate 100% of the people who follow you to see it, and you would have to boost it at this point. Prior to that, everybody can see it. So, I mean, there's that change and there's a change like that every social media platform really follows it. The perfect example, I, I wasn't a big proponent on TikTok, and actually the, the reason I got into audio was that podcast movement. So that opened up to me incorporate and recommend to clients having podcasts in terms of value for PR branding, as well as going on other shows, not only for PR and, you know, putting your voice out there, but also for SEO value. So the links that you're getting back usually a host asks either on their website or obviously on their audio host in terms of what would you like us to link to when you give your website. Obviously that pushes an opportunity for referral traffic over time as well as direct SEO value that can boost the domain authority of your site as one of kind of the pieces added to the technical aspect and the content strategy to raise your domain authority. And theoretically, as it goes up, the easier it is to rank for certain things or certain phrases or themes on your website as well. So I saw that twofold and organically incorporated that in my overall SEO strategy for clients. And then that opened up opportunities to do different relationships at media buys. So I worked with last year PRX Network, which is a top 5 network. So I'm— I did a media buy, $5,000 for, uh, 200,000 streams on TED Talks versus a technology company. And I have that relationship now, which is cool because I don't know if I would have incorporated that perceived the value of audio before I became a podcaster, before I went to that conference. So becoming a podcaster actually added different caveats, how I can incorporate voice and the audio medium and advertising in the space and how I can benefit clients that way as well.

How often should someone who has a website revamp and update their website? Like, are we— because I know there's always new things to add and there's always behind the scenes stuff., but a front-facing version to the world. How many years do you think, like, cuz right, every couple years a new car model comes out. It's the same car, just a new upgrade, right? From the outside. And there's obviously tinkering behind the scenes, but, but what do you think as far as the longest that someone should have in between up, you know, refacing their website?

Yeah. So I mean, it depends if new technology comes out, if you're rebranding, if you're changing color scheme in that sense. But some of the things are gonna hold true. So like what you help people with or your practice, practice areas or core landing pages. Those may not change over time, but having a fresh content component like a blog will add opportunities to cast a wider net, ability to rank for longer tail terms, which usually have better intent in terms of people looking for a product or a service, and adds a fresh component to the site and, you know, causes search engine spiders to more often come to your website to index it because you have a consistent amount of fresh content. Obviously on the backend, you can also suggest, uh, search engine spiders to visit your site in terms of frequency, either daily, sometimes it's even hourly if it's a news publication, you know, weekly, monthly. I mean, it's just a suggestion, but the more fresh content, usually the, you know, the, the frequency of it being re-indexed and re-crawled is, is a lot higher as well.

So now the podcast component of it, right? We're both doing it. We both you know, we're talking about the things we love, but we also look at it as a good marketing play. One of the things that I hear and I see a lot on, on different social media, like Facebook specifically, in different podcast groups, is like, I would love to do a podcast, what should I do it on? Is a very common question. So if someone came to you and whatever industry that they're in, but they still didn't know what to do, how would you, you know, so to speak, help them pinpoint where their focus should lie?

Well, it depends what your intent is. If it's like, if you have a nonprofit, if it's advocacy, I could see obviously through that you're maybe looking to bring light to the subject, but also attract donors or, you know, people to collaborate with or, you know, media opportunities. So if it's a direct extension of your brand, which I've recommended podcasts and have produced them and managed them in the B2B space, but the intent is a little different. So the podcast is used as an internal training tool as well as a direct sales tool. So for example, that specific podcast in the B2B space, a sales rep recommended to a prospect that they were working on. That prospect was driving from New York to Boston, I guess on a business trip, and then binged all 30 episodes at the time. And those 30 episodes gave a real personal idea, an intimate view of the consultants, the executive team, what they're about, how they've helped specific clients in specific scenarios, and gave them a really like personal connection, more so than what they read on the website. So there's that like accompanying factor that you can basically supplement and support your message as well as deliver it in a way where that person wouldn't have sat that long and consumed the content on your website. But when their ability to multitask, drive, workout, whatever, eat and listen and still consume that, it exists with the audio platform as well. So you're looking at like that, you may have something that you're interested in that then you can monetize in terms of your expertise either creating a product or a service or a course around that to help that community. You can obviously— I would recommend if you're going the sponsorship route, I would reach out and eliminate the middleman so there's not like a 50/50 split. So find sponsors in your space or think— or that you think are a good fit. I mean, I've had several that directly have reached out to me in terms of possibilities. Obviously they may have not been the right fit, but creating that relationship and driving that over time. But you have to consider, you have to get in it for the right reason because there's pod fade, obviously. I believe it's, you know, most podcasters quit, I guess it's after episode 7 or something like that.

7 to 10.

Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot of that. So I think if your why isn't strong enough and you're just driven by monetization and money, which I, I hear a lot of people even on Clubhouse or Facebook asking, I started a podcast, how can I monetize? Well, where's your audience? You have like 2 people. Who are you monetizing? Yeah, so having your why set can really help you monetize later because you're doing something that resonates with you, that you're passionate on. But if you're doing it as a business, a direct, you know, extension of your business where you're trying to attract a similar audience through a different, obviously, delivery mechanism.

That's awesome. So as far as resources, YouTube videos, books, what are some of the things that have been your must-read? I see you have a nice stack books next to you. So I don't know if those are any of your, your massive recommendations, or they're just good for, uh, you know, for, for curb appeal. But is there stuff that you think are like your must-haves? Like, for me, like, I think everybody should have the book The Four Agreements, without a doubt, right? I think it's just for the best. $9.99 on Amazon. It's one of the best things you can have, and it's 2 hours cover to cover, and it can change your life. So what are some of the things, one from a professional side and from a personal side— you can throw on YouTube and TED Talks and stuff like that— but what's been some of your biggest resources that have empowered you throughout this journey?

Well, in the last month, I think if you have the ability or you get an invite to join Clubhouse, it's like, like, I don't know, something on like a mastermind on drugs, honestly, on something like speed or some kind of craziness or like a boost of caffeine. Like you're literally getting thousands of dollars of value in some of these rooms. You can be part of the discussion and really like define your tribe as well. So starting your own rooms and starting a club, growing community and doing it early enough, I think is key. And I mean, I guess found my tribe. So I have a few rooms I host and co-moderate on a daily basis that has arisen to me. And, and, you know, those two people starting a podcast together, starting and getting people offline in terms of, you know, help kind of forum, helping them that way and turning it into other things. So there are a lot of opportunities in that sense. And I mean, I just got on the platform to add value, but also learn from other people. So a lot of podcasters or those looking to start literally said either if they started, if I had this resource, I would've probably gotten launched in a week, like in terms of Clubhouse and other people jumping in the rooms that, you know, myself and other people help, you know, a few days later they have their equipment, they have a host, they have the way they're doing, you know, remote interviews and they're literally recording. So some of these people that may have not had the platform would have been hesitant in reading different things from different places. But I think in Clubhouse, when you have a lot of experts in one room, it's hard to kind of like sugarcoat or be fluffy or not give the right information because eventually you're going to get called out. So I think it's a great, it's a great platform to do so. And for me personally, it was trial and error. I literally started recording on my phone and then I started doing other things. I mean, I didn't know anything about audio engineering, so I was recording on a single track and it was like one of those growing pains. Where I think if I read something or had a book, maybe I would have took it differently. But I think starting to begin with is the main thing because the biggest thing is, is getting past that first hurdle because you can always rebrand your show, rename it, redo the COVID art, rechange the direction of the content itself. But starting, you have to physically start. You can't change starting.

It's so crazy because I'm getting close to releasing episode 100 and have so many in the backlog. In fact, I just found an episode that was never even edited. Yesterday?

100 in the backlog, right?

Right. Which I'm not shocked. So it's kind of like, holy crap. Like, I mean, the pandemic obviously like made this whole time, right? This has been such a therapeutic tool for me on top of everything else. But to realize that I've done this many where it's like, what am I— who's going to want to be on my show? Number one, that like once you get past your circle of friends and people you already might already know, but you know, I think the ballsiness that I I've grown over the last year of being able to make a big ask of someone, it has become exponentially easier. It's not like, oh my God, what's it gonna— what's gonna happen if I do ask? It's like, so when am I going to ask them, you know, to do it and to be on the show and hopefully get— and most likely even get a yes because now you're that many and now there's more value to them because they're going to know you have a following if you've done it this far.

Yeah, I mean, it's a little different because the key there, not because you're doing it, but indirectly you have leverage now. So in, in terms of like me having a conversation that I may have reached out to somebody in the past where it's like, let me pick your brain for 15 minutes, talk about some of the things that, you know, I want to know more about you. They would probably say no or redirect me to assistant or someone. But now when I ask, hey, this is my audience, this is what I can do for you, and this is basically a platform for you to reach the world, they're more likely to kind of think about and consider that conversation where it was a little bit different. So like in anything, if you have the attention, you have the leverage.

I had a, um, Dr. Scott Stanley, uh, who is the top clinical researcher on premarital habits, and he, um, is famous for his sliding versus deciding article, which is about like what happens when people are dating and they kind of get too entrenched in their obligations with each other, whether it's, uh, they're moving in too early and they make it, well, your lease is up, so let's just move in, versus it being a proactive decision, right? All that good stuff. And I like, it never occurred to me, I'm like that he would want to be on a podcast. And I reached— I found him, I tracked him down. It was on Twitter, because some, right, some people are on Twitter, somewhere on Instagram. You have to know where to reach people. And he wrote back, he's like, yeah. And one of the greatest compliments, he's like, you know, I've done, you know, YouTube videos and conferences and whatever, TED Talks. He's like, this was the best interview I've ever done, I've ever had with someone. And I was like blown away with that compliment. And I'm wondering, I'm like, okay, like, yes, it's therapist to therapist, and we have a lot of interest and a lot of overthinking stuff, but I wonder how much better I've been because it was already going to be released for in my 70s of episodes versus like the people I interviewed at episode 2 or 3, right? So I think that like saving some of those big hitters, people like, I want to go get like, you know, if I— the Pat Flynn's and the Billy Ginas marketing and like all those guys that everybody goes for at the beginning, the John Lee Dumas and whatever, right? Like you want to build up your credibility first to show that you have, you know, reach, not only reach, but also like you've been around for a while and that you're not going anywhere also brings value to the other person. And one of the things that I found is that if you find someone who hasn't been on podcasts to say, hey, I want to introduce you to an entirely different market that you've not been in front of, because I would also look, have they been on other interviews on podcasts? If they haven't, I'll use that as a leverage tool. So something for people out there who are thinking like, how do I get something and somebody out to? So, so before we wrap up, my, maybe my, my last question, I haven't had this, I haven't asked this question in a while. So I'm glad that it's that you're already somebody I know that I can bring it back out for is if you can kind of sum up, you know, the incredible wisdom that you've gathered and you had 2 minutes to share with someone and you, you know, knowing that you may not ever meet them again, what would you tell them?

I mean, I would say whatever you have wanted to do or want to do, start it today, whether it's, you know, burn the ships, quit your day job, or which I don't necessarily recommend because I think I think that kind of decision is situational based on, you know, your responsibilities, people you take care of, what's in your life, or it's a side hustle or whatever. You want to start reading more, just read more. If you can't, you're not a good reader, start with 5 minutes. It's a process. Like, I don't want to be like cheesy, like a motivational speaker, but the biggest thing, like if I started podcasting when I wanted to, I would have started probably 5 years prior to starting. So now even 3 years later, I haven't had a dedicated site. So now I'm building a dedicated site because I didn't see it necessarily you know, that seriousness of it, but now I want a unique experience for the— so it's a constant evolution. So you're not going to be the best at— if we were talking about podcasting, episode 1, I recommend any podcaster go back to episode 1 and listen to the most recent one and see the progression in that change. So it is a journey, and it's more about the actual journey than a destination. So for me, like, my goals are moving targets. They're not stationary, and they always always keep me kind of motivated in that sense. When I get closer to one, I'll recalibrate and move in a different direction or amplify that goal. So not being complacent and but being grateful. So it's like one of those things where you have to stay level-headed and don't let ego take over because we are humans and it is human nature. But really kind of run your own race, take action now, and, you know, stay humble and stay grounded. Sometimes you have to recalibrate, which I have to do on a regular basis because nobody— if you watch social media or YouTube people running around like Ric Flair style, woo, woo, every 5 seconds and motivated. Everybody has to recalibrate in their own ways. It's different for everyone, but, you know, find that why, find that what you have to recalibrate and keep you focused, and just start today.

So for people out there who've gotten value from the show and they want to go deeper down, if you're, you know, thinking about being in the fostering community, you are in the fostering community, you want an insane resource from that side. If you are in the business world and you're looking for someone to help you with your digital marketing, your SEO, your website, that whole— I guess we would call it a full stack, right? Is that the right phrasing of it? So, um, please, please, you know, follow, uh, and reach out to Roman, uh, R-O-M-A-N P-R-O-K-O-P-C-H-U-K on Instagram, and that'll take you to his other platforms, uh, and his website. And also you can check out his Digital Savage Experience Podcast, uh, which is available probably on all the same platforms mine's on. So, so give him a listen, check him out. He's, he's an incredible, incredible person. I know the first night that I met him that, uh, we're gonna be in touch for a while. And my, my heartfelt apology for taking so long to be able to get you in front of me today, but I'm so glad that we were able to do this.

Yeah, it's all good. It's one of those things where like eventually, like, you know, paths will cross again and, you know, things align. So I mean, no, no hard feelings that you didn't get me on right away. So I appreciate it.

Of course. Of course. Good. So everybody out there, if again, if you've been listening and getting any value, please do us a favor. Um, just go on iTunes and leave us a starred and written review that helps us not only tell us what we're doing right and well and what you're getting value out of, but also helps us get seen by other people. As you know, the more reviews we get, the more it boosts up in the charts and more people will find this. And if there's someone specifically to this episode, that you think will be beneficial to someone, forward it on to them. If there's other episodes in the past that you think will be of value to someone, just refer it out to a friend. And, um, obviously as always, you can track me down. Our Instagram changed. It was Jason Wasser LMFT, but middle of December, all of a sudden I woke up and it was shut down overnight. So everything is now presently moved over to You Winning Life, which is also the name of this podcast, which if you haven't figured out by now, that's what it is. Um, but otherwise, Roman, thanks, my man.

Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. Thanks for listening to the You Winning Life podcast. If you are ready to minimize your personal and professional struggles and maximize your potential, we would love it if you subscribed so you don't miss an episode. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at You Winning Life.