Ep. 114-Meditation Not Medicine with Adam Weber

Giving you empowering insights and guiding you to extraordinary outcomes. Learn from specialists in the worlds of integrative and natural wellness, spirituality, psychology, and entrepreneurship so you too can be winning life. Now here's your host, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified neuro-emotional technique practitioner, and certified entrepreneur coach, Jason Wasser. Everybody, welcome back to the You Winning Life podcast. Today I have a guest who's hanging out in my wheelhouse of mindfulness and mind-body wellness. He is an author of the book Meditation, Not Medicine, and he has also been working in the real estate advisory World, and he is a New Yorker trying to work his way through the pandemic just like everybody else that we know in today's society, even though we're at the beginning— the end of January, and we're hoping it's getting better. But, uh, today's guest is Adam Weber, and I'm really excited for you to share your story about, one, the outcome of how this book got created and, and what's going on in your world as far as now being an author coming from the real estate world, but also your healing journey. So welcome.

Welcome. Thank you, Jason. Thank you for having me.

So let's start back from the outside, right? You, you were in the real estate world. What got you into that in the first place? Because the joke in Florida is people have their day job and they're also a realtor. So I know that there's people who are really into real estate, they really are realtors, they really are in that, right, the commercial or the private world. And then there's people who are like doing it for fun for hobbies. So I'm curious, like, what got you originally into this as a primary calling for you?

Well, when I was in school— as far as I was in school originally for real estate, and coming from New York, and originally from New York City and Long Island, and there was a lot going on over the years because I'm in my 50s now, so I've been through the big boom in the city as far as the post-'80s crash. And, um, I happened to go work for a larger, one of the international real estate companies called Cushman Wakefield. And, um, I was a commercial real estate appraiser, although I started out in the residential world. That's where I cut my teeth in the business. And, um, it was a, it was just a, it was a wonderful place to be, to learn, to kind of, you know, socialize too. And frankly, it, for me at the time especially, it was really a lot of it about the money. New York is not cheap to live here. Um, I lived in the Midtown area and it was expensive. And, um, so I wanted to have something that where I, you know, I made a good living and I could, I could, uh, grow as a person in New York City also. And then, you know, meditation was something that I found, um, because it's a very stressful world and New York City is crazy and it has been for a long time. It's not anything new. So I found that I needed something to help me because I, the son of a doctor and a nurse, and I came from that one-size-fits-all, take a pill approach. To every time you're stressed out or you don't feel well, you take a pill. And for me, that didn't work, um, not only because I didn't like being toxic full of medicine, because when, you know, as a son of a doctor, I was— I think I was being overfed pills and over-chemicalized, if I call it— if that's the right way to say it. Sure. Yeah, no, I mean, it was just too much. And being my age, I was never raised with an alternative approach. I mean, sometimes if you were stressed, people would say, go take a walk, go outside, get some fresh air.

Yep.

Yeah. Get some fresh air. Exactly. And you know, if you're in the city, not always, but on Long Island, you can usually find that fresh air. And, um, it was something that seemingly right away started working for me. I was able to help get rid of the stress and get rid of the anxiety because I was approaching it from a different angle. So yeah, no, it worked for me and I knew it was working for a lot of other people. And I had actually started doing yoga, trying to stay a little supple. As the older I got. And it turned out that there was always a meditative component with the instructor I was working with. And the people that I was in the classes with were meditating for different reasons or whatever the reason. But I, so I decided, you know, this was something I needed to try. I, but then it got For me, I was diagnosed with a progressive form of multiple sclerosis.

So how many years ago was that?

That now is a total of almost about 14 years ago.

Okay, so you're working in this, right? It's New York real estate. You're, you're, you're building a family. Life is happening. And New York is stressful. I lived there for 3 years, from '98 to 2001. I left a month before 9/11 to move to Atlanta, Georgia. And then I came back a few weeks after just to visit. And so I know, I know the New York lifestyle. It's not almost You know, nice South Florida boy, and that didn't work for me. But I know the intensity of what's going on there. And it's not just the intensity, but it's also— it's not always the world's warmest and most welcoming, welcoming place as well as many other places are.

Yeah. No, commercial real estate is a very cutthroat industry in New York.

Already on top of a cutthroat society that is New York in general.

Yeah, it is. And the people— look, New Yorkers, they're wonderful people. I'm one of them. And, you know, I know you were. But the point is, is that It's not like when I went to school, school and was living in Central Ohio where people were a lot more relaxed and laid back.

Yeah. So do you think there's like a predisposition for personality types that gravitate to certain places in the world? Right. So you're saying like Ohio, like people are from, if you're from a place, fine, you might more be more adaptable to that because that's where you're coming from. Do you think there's people that are looking and going to like New York because they want that cutthroat. They want to be in that type of place but don't have the tools to go in and handle that type of lifestyle.

Without a doubt. And, and I met a lot of them. A lot of them came in where I was working for the big commercial real estate company. They cut their teeth in the industry in New York. And, um, for example, I worked with somebody who came in, worked with us for a few years, and then left and went to Central Ohio. And he and his girlfriend at the time, wife now, they decided, you know what, they wanted something a little bit more laid back. They wanted fresh air. They wanted a green lawn and a backyard. They wanted to raise their kids somewhere different. So they said, yeah, New York is great, but we want more. And so there were a lot of people over the years that came through, and my brother-in-law worked he went from a cutthroat school in Wharton to working for one of the big accounting houses in Manhattan. One of the, I don't know if they call them the Big Six or Big Seven or what it is. And then himself decided to move out of the city. Now, north of New York City in Westchester County, but it's much different. Than living in the city and working in the city. And, you know, there's a lot of commuting involved. And, but it's a better quality of life. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I see that now, especially right as we were just talking before the show about how many people are leaving those type of places, right? New York, people are leaving California, people are leaving the big, big cities that are just way too hectic, way overpriced. And there was something that pushed them over during this pandemic of we do want a healthier lifestyle. We do want more nature. We do want underinflated, you rents that are not significantly overinflated, stuff like that. So I'm, you know, the stress component of people just trying to be able to survive in those type of places adds crazily to the stress. I know, like, you know, I was years ago, and I have a lot of friends in like the Five Towns, Long Island area. And I remember hearing, right, and I remember here and there in Great Neck and Westchester, right? And just hearing about property taxes on their homes. And I'm like, wow, that's like some people's salaries for the year is just their property tax on a regular family, entry-level family home and the amount of stress that people are putting themselves under by choosing where to live. And, and I find this like, especially like as a therapist of deciding the type of lifestyle that you want also includes what's the financial stability and stress that's going to add to live in certain types of communities. So as a realtor, as now moving from the realtor space and the real estate space into this, adding this mindfulness component, how often do you see these conversations happening even with people that are looking? To purchase a home in these type of communities?

All the time. In fact, you mentioned the Five Towns. Before, uh, grow, you know, before moving to the North Shore of Long Island, I went to private school in the Five Towns. Um, and I'm finding now as I connect with people that I went to elementary school with, I mean, I have people because of the book now who are saying, hey, that's the Adam Weber that I went to elementary school with, and reach out to me. And, um, because they've seen my photo out there, and I'm like, they're like, where are 'Where are you now?' And I say, 'Well, I'm outside of New York City, but in New York.' And I say, 'Where are you?' And they say, 'Well, I'm in Arizona. I'm in Florida. I'm in the Carolinas.' I'm like, 'Why did you leave?' They're like, 'Well,' you know, some of them actually have left during COVID but others left before because it's become a very, it's very different.

Yeah.

The way it was many years ago. Uh, there's a lot of craziness going on, a lot of it around COVID. A lot of it just in general with the schools and again, having a backyard, having a park where you can take your kids to play. Um, they can be involved in Little League or a soccer league or something like that. And they can't get those things where they are.

Right. And that, and then taking this back to the underlying theme of stress, which, you know, we're in the middle of a pandemic, but one of the things that you talk about in your book is that stress itself. Is its own pandemic. So let's get a little bit into that because, right, again, my job is to help people minimize their stress to maximize their potential, and that's the equation, right? Diminish this, that will automatically go up. So what, what have you seen, like, what is your interpretation or your definition of what stress is? And, and knowing that, when you were diagnosed with MS, walk us through what was going on for you physically so people can understand this process? And also, when— God forbid that they should have this as well, but they can look out for the signs and symptoms, but also knowing like what stress can do to your body, like, like it went and happened for you?

Yeah, well, the doctors I've talked to, quite a few. I get treated at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City, which is considered one of the top 3 hospitals for MS in the United States of America. Um, and The stress was eating me alive. And I felt it day after day, weekends too. I liken it to what's called a tsunami of stress. So it, it, it was overwhelming. It felt like waves on certain days. And I would go see doctors and they would say, oh no, you're just stressed out. You need to slow down. You need to do more exercise. And I thought, how many more hours can I spend at the day at the gym a day? Or how many more walks could I I take. And it was— the symptoms were being overlapped with excessive stress. So I don't think that the doctors knew at times what they were looking at. And I know I didn't know what I was looking at because I couldn't tell the difference. If anybody's ever gotten angry or worked up over stress, sometimes they feel that you know, the rush in their body. And I would feel that and think, oh, that stress sometimes, or there's just some residual stress, but no, it turned out it was something else. So it's about looking out for what you're feeling, how you're feeling it, and being able to distinguish between what stress and what's not stress. Um, because no matter where you live, whether it be New York or Florida or Texas or California, there's just a load of stressors and they compound, that compound effect of stressors, they just pile up on top of each other. And that, that's something that, you know, the people want to know what's actually wrong with me. So, you know, again, I spent a lot and I'm the son of a doctor, but I spent a lot of times a lot of time with doctors and getting tests done. But unfortunately, I also have a condition where the effects are not, you know, they, they, it takes a little bit longer to manifest as far as, like they said when I, when I was diagnosed with MS, that I had probably had MS for years and not known it and thought, well, maybe the way I felt was because I was also athletic, that maybe I was injured. I had had surgery on my knee, I'd had back surgery. So my body was not— well, my body was in good shape. I'm just like a lot of other people who have been athletic and have been active. I had injuries. So trying to distinguish between what I was feeling and, and what was actually going on in my body.

Yeah. Well, that makes sense. And I, and, and I see this again all the time where I just had someone call me to, to work with their child. And they're explaining all the panic and anxiety that they're going through. And based on what they said, I said, listen, there's gonna be a twofold factor of things that I can do. One, obviously, the therapy side and the integrative wellness side using neuro-emotional technique. Uh, but two, I'm probably gonna need your child to go for a full blood panel of labs, including vitamins. And I explained to them, right, that there are certain vitamins and certain nutritional things, and I wanna know what he's eating, and I wanna know what else is going on because that can turn into the body's inability to handle and process stress, as well as if there's a deficiency, let's say vitamin B. You know, I talk about this all the time, vitamin B, that 1 out of every 10 people who have a deficiency in vitamin B will have neuropsychiatric symptomology. 1 out of 10. And then there's studies on vitamin D, which we also know goes hand in hand to supporting people through COVID, that the numbers are— if your numbers are below 40 with your vitamin D count, you have a 50% higher chance of comorbidity. With this disease. But also we know that it's autoimmune, but mental health stuff as well, for those lower numbers that they found in research. So we have all these things that can contribute to making our lives easier just by A, eating the right foods, B, taking the right supplements, exercising, meditating, all those different things. But the average doctor is not going to look at that. And I know that the average therapist doesn't look at both of those. Sides, right? So I want people out there to really know that, like, when you're going through this, if you have a bunch of things that you're checking and it doesn't seem to be getting better, you probably are going to want to find an integrative medicine practitioner, a functional medicine practitioner. They're all licensed practitioners. There's amazing schools like Jefferson Medical in Philadelphia that has an integrative medicine department that's on par with oncology and radiology, um, and they're doing all this type of stuff. And there's incredible, incredible resources out there to you if you keep hitting the wall and a pill, like you said, right? You were just shoved full of pills, you know, that there's other resources and other help out there. So let's pivot into meditation because I've done a bunch of meditation retreats. I've done everything from Zen Buddhist meditation to going to like kirtan chantings and Hebrew Kabbalistic meditations and all that good stuff. And every, every, right, every background, every culture has its own thing. And I have a friend of mine who is a rabbi, and he's adopted the kirtan chanting and made it into Hebrew with the harmonium, which is the call and response, like Krishna Das, who's your fellow New Yorker, right, who brought that movement back from India to America in the '70s and '80s. So walk me through your first initial meditation exposure and your thoughts about like, okay, what is this? Is this weird? Is this going to work for me? Let's go there.

My first exposure was ordering a book on, uh, getting a short book, um, on meditation. Not sure, because it was more spiritually based, it was somewhat of a turn-off to me. Um, I was— I'm Jewish, I was raised in going to yeshiva, and also I, you know, was raised with the for me, it didn't feel comfortable, uh, being somebody, uh, who was, who was learning one thing, but then trying to, you know, trying to practice something else. And so then I started looking around and found people like Achopra and, you know, got some different CDs and things like that, only to find out that for me, it wasn't for me. Um, there was too much spirituality about it. I was still that fast-charging New Yorker in the corporate world, and, um, I, I can't even tell you, I probably was a kid last time I had sat down with my legs crossed, and, uh, I think the last time I had chanted anything was at my bar mitzvah. So for me, it was a little bit uncomfortable. And, uh, so I, I kept looking and went all around, tried a few different techniques, and then I found Transcendental Meditation, which to me, while it still had a little bit of a spiritual side, was being accepted more and more by people in my space and more and more recognized as a technique. Because there was— well, yes, some of the instructors would talk about the Maharishi and different things like that. It had been so more brought into the American space, and I think that's what happens depending on where you are, uh, things change. And, uh, there was still some— I guess I call it woo-woo around it. So I knew I needed to kind of create my own little practice and something that was— was— had good parts of the different meditations. Not that any of it was bad, but things that for somebody like me, a Jewish kid from Long Island, was— again, I, I, I knew of people from all over the world, but I didn't— I didn't practice. I didn't speak their religion, you know, their languages. I didn't practice their religions. I, I was You know, you understand, you know, a New Yorker is a New Yorker. And it's very different. It's a very old breed. It's very different. I tried to explain that. It was like when I went to Ohio, I would— people would say, you know, they would say, "You New Yorkers are different, but I like it." You know, I hope maybe I can go visit New York one day.

Definitely brings the energy up in the room when there's New Yorkers.

Yeah, no, it definitely does. And then there's a lot of the questions about things, you know, like, do you ever meet somebody on the street? I'm thinking, how would I meet so-and-so on this, you know, that kind of thing. But it's a, it's a, we live in New York and you understand this, we live in a kind of a different world because I, uh, you know, I went to high school, uh, with a couple people that were in Rent and, you know, high school, somebody who was a pro football player, somebody who was a basketball player. So, you know, you get exposure to things and what may seem like a big deal one place is not a big deal in our world. And, um, but for me, it was just finding something that wasn't spiritual in the practice. You know, being able to create something that for me was just about getting up, meditating, meditating when I needed to, and not worrying that I was adhering to a certain doctrine or a certain somebody else's practice. And because I'd had people say, well, to do it right, and I thought, it's working for me the way I'm doing it, right? So it's a matter of how we approach things. And I knew being questioned by people who said, you're not like you used to be, you seem a lot more calm. You don't seem to get upset about certain things that you used to, and my doctors saw a difference in me with the MS, um, because progressive MS, I should be in a wheelchair already. Now, I'm not going to say I'm not because of meditation, but I think if you take a look at the holistic approach, whether it be meditation, yoga, visualization, things like that, it's definitely worked in my favor, and the doctors are telling me it works for you, so keep doing it. And, you know, can you come, can you talk to some of our patients? Because you might have somebody from, yes, for example, Washington Heights, north of Manhattan, and say, well, I don't know if I'm like this or like that, and I, I need to try something that's not spiritual or not woo-woo. And it was funny that I met some people from the Bronx who were like that and were like, this really works. So I started teaching it and writing about it. And it, it just changed over time because it— I created a practice that would work. There's no, there's no you have to follow every single rule. You can customize it to your life and the way you do things. Like, if you're in corporate America, yeah, I recommend you meditate earlier in the day before you go to work. But if you're having some sort of big corporate meltdown or something happening, fighting among people, take 5 minutes, take 10 minutes, go to sit in your car, go to an empty office and meditate. And people were telling me it was just changing things for them. And I saw the changes in myself.

And that's the cool thing about meditation. So there was a study that was done, and I can't remember offhand who did this. Um, but I think it was Dr. Andrew Newberg, who was at Penn Medical and is now at Jefferson. He's a neurologist, but he's also a pioneer in the field of neurotheology— what happens to your brain during religious and spiritual experiences. And I think it was either he talked about the study in this book, or he led the study, but he said that when people are meditating, that people assume that it's going to take you years and years and years to have the neurological and physiological results that those who have been meditating for years to be the same. Right? So if you're a newbie, it might take me 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 years. And I think the number that they talked about was within a span of a number of months. That there was no difference between the meditator who's been doing it for multiple years and the new meditator who's been doing it consistently, that the brain really does change and evolve and the physiology adapts quickly to being in that space. So this idea of being a newbie meditation meditator, and that it's going to take me forever, and I'm not gonna be able to sit for hours and hours and hours and hours, right? One, you don't have to sit for hours and hours and hours. Two, you can do it within 3 to 5 minutes. If need be, you can do it in 1 minute, because a lot of it is just going back to breathwork and, and like dropping the things in your mind or focusing, right? There's 2 ways of going. You can focus on things, or you can focus just on your breath and multiple other various ways. But I think I love what you said. It's like you have to find the way that works for you with the philosophy that approach works for you. And maybe this, if there is a spiritual lens that works for someone or a non-spiritual lens that works for someone, that's why like the, all these apps right now, right? I have the, the Muse headband that does the EEG and measuring everything and heart rate. Sometimes I use it, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I'm playing music when I'm meditating, sometimes I'm not. Sometimes I try to play my guitar, right? There's so many different ways of going about it that I want the listeners to know that meditation is not a one-size-fits-all.

You said it perfectly, and thank you for saying that, because I'm somebody like many others, I have a— especially during COVID Um, most of the time during the day on a day like today, my wife, who's a school teacher, would be at school and my kids who were young enough, they're students, would be at school. But because of COVID uh, they were supposed to actually go back to school this week, but no, they're still home and they're going to go back next week. So I've been able to meditate in the same room as my son watching Transformers. Right. And, um, you know, or you, I could do it while my wife is watching the Housewives or, you know, get up where I'm—

that one's trickier. That one's tricky.

That one's a little, especially if you're watching the Housewives of Atlanta, but yeah, it gets trickier. But, um, no, what happens is those around you learn to realize that it's your time and that you're not the only one benefiting from it, that they are too.

Yeah.

And, and, you know, the work benefit— my work, because again, I still have a real estate practice— benefits from it. My writing benefits from it because I can think clearer. But it's a wonderful place to, you know, to be, to be able to meditate.

So let's go into some nitty-gritty because I would love people who are listening to have an introduction crash course. And I'm not talking about giving them everything in the next few minutes, but Um, you know, the kind of the, the things you have to— don't worry about, you know, here that— here's, you know, so I know that like people are like, well, do I have to sit cross-legged and on a mat? And do I need to have the music and my incense or my essential oils? Do I need to have my own meditation space? So, so if you can just drop some like, don't worry about this, this will help you apply this, go for it.

Yeah, you— I appreciate you saying that because that was the concept behind Easy to Meditate. My technique where I've really said, you know, throw out all the stuff you're not comfortable with. If you want a cushion, great. If you want to sit on the couch, great. If you want to sit cross-legged, great. If you want incense, use it. If you want, you know, oils, use them. Uh, do what makes, you know, what works for you. Because you're also, you know, if you're in a work environment and you need to take 5 minutes, where's that cushion? Oh, it's at home. Where's my incense? Oh, it's at home. Where's my spiritual oils? Oh, I left. My wife is using them. You know, something like that. And so I found, you know, it's, it, those things weren't needed. You could use them. Um, but it's about saying, I need this and I need this for myself and realizing that it benefits everybody else around you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I found that like, if you carve out a very specific time of the day, so I was doing it. Um, so I got the Muse headband, a buddy of mine who's a chiropractor. Out in Portland. We were at a conference together. He's like, dude, you gotta try this, you gotta try this. I'm like, great. And he brought it with him. And I used it over the weekend. I'm like, oh, this is really cool. So I ended up ordering it. And this had to be the beginning of— probably the beginning of February. And I used it once or twice. And then the pandemic kicked in. And my anxiety, right, I had closed my office the middle of March. I started seeing all my clients online. I— we had no clue, right, what was going on, where you can get it from. Everybody everywhere, like walking out of the front door of your your apartment or your house was like, you can get it. Everybody— no one had any clue what the heck was happening. And I realized how anxious I was and how stressed out I was, one, trying to help everybody else with their stuff, but also taking care of mine. And I'm like, oh, I have this little meditation thing. And I like meditating. So I started doing it. And I realized that I did it for like 60 days straight. And I noticed how consistently I felt better from the beginning to that time.. And I realized that, yes, I would do it at the end of the day. And I tried to do it before I went to bed. And a lot of times, as I've done it more consistently, I'm like, all right, I can do it for 5, 10 minutes. And that's all it was, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, literally, because there's a timer. But I need to move it up during my day, because I'm always— sometimes I'm doing it as a precursor just to fall asleep versus it being an intentional meditation. So there's two factors there, right? One, if it's going to help you fall asleep to do this 5 minutes before you fall asleep, Great. That's amazing. Right? Again, let's talk about the rules and the no rules, right? There is no rules, but if it's— there are no rules, right? So if you're like, I just want to do it while lying down, because they're like, oh, you can't meditate lying down. But if you go to a yoga class, that's the last thing you do for the last 5 minutes, right?

Is you lie on your back and you lie down, you prop your knees up over a cushion and you meditate.

And half the time some people are snoring right next to you, right? In shavasana. So, right? That's the best part of it. It's like being back in synagogue for your bar mitzvah, right? Like you can see who was sleeping. During your chanting. So, right? So the rules are there are no rules. If you're more comfortable lying down on your floor, great. If it's on your couch, great. If it's on your bed, great. If you're doing it while you're cooking, as long as you don't burn yourself, right? And you're just able to get into a breathwork and contemplative stuff like that, because there is stuff like walking meditations or wood whittling. And there's, I mean, all these things are there. Just make it meditative is really what I want to challenge people to do.

Exactly, exactly. If we could, as humans, especially in a time now like corona, you know, change things so we're living more in a meditative type of world, whether it be a, you know, meditating itself or cooking, or again, don't close your eyes if you're in the car, but, but you don't have to have the music blaring, or you can have My family is even a little bit concerned because they're like, where did you get this channel on SiriusXM from?

And I'm like, because it's, it's not chanting, but it's, it's like the spa music channel, right?

Well, that's funny you say that because when my wife and I went away and stayed, uh, we were in Grand Cayman and we stayed at the Ritz. They have like that chanting music and people get in my car now with, they're like, what are you remembering when you got married years ago? And I'm like, no, because it was there's no waterfall like they had there. But, you know, there are channels where you can just— it's slow, calms you down, and it helps you.

Well, you reminded me of something, because now, like, during the pandemic, people have been there for sure. People have been drinking more, because I not only do I know that from the fact that people are saying that they're drinking more, and there was the quarantining, all this stuff, there's all these new business startups of people sending like cocktail craft things, right, to box cocktail sets and stuff like that. And what I have found for me is that when I'm done with my sessions and my living room is right there with my music and everything, and everything's Bluetooth, is I just put on jazz music, like the more slow, low-key jazz. And that just really, like, that alone helps trigger me to unwind and it brings a soothing, calm environment. To that. So we can have those connections to different things.

I'm glad you said that. Yeah, my son who's, uh, when I bring one of my sons who, when I bring him in the car, he's 10 years old, and he, he tells me, no, Dad, don't put on— because again, growing up when I did in the '80s, I might put on, uh, you know, to listen to a Mötley Crüe or something like that. And he says, no, Dad, put that other channel on. And I'm like, the— it sounds like a rainforest.

Sure.

But he seems to like it. And I think what happens is once he gets out of school or he's, you know, just needs to calm down, he even realizes that that kind of thing can help turn the temperature down.

Right. Do you meditate with your children?

No, I have my kids, as much as I would like them to, and I've taught them breathwork. They haven't— they're still the younger kids that don't— haven't found it. Now, I've taught it to other kids, and they're— each kid is different, each child is different. And my wife has not been as much a stickler as I have. We're still— their kids are younger, and with the age where they can go out in the backyard, or like we can take them to the park or something like that, or put on a movie and they'll calm down. But I, you know, you try to create a meditative experience in just calming down, breathing, and letting it all go. And we all find our own practice in different ways. And I have no doubt, because they've seen the difference in me, that they will probably adopt it at some point because they also are asking questions. Yeah, and they want to know why you're a certain way or why you're not a certain way. Why doesn't upset you? It doesn't get you mad. Uh, just earlier this morning I was having a talk with my son who was in school about something. He's like, you're not mad at me? I'm like, no, I'm not mad at you. And but maybe never years ago I would have been a little bit more upset about that.

But that also teaches, right? Because you— we teach by example as much as we teach by teaching.

Exactly.

So I think, right, the fact that you're creating a different type of energetic environment at home, and, and every family is its own system, and nothing happens outside of that vacuum of that space. So I, you know, I definitely do believe that that does trickle down, whether they're sitting or not, right, in meditation, that, that, that, that energy and that influence is trickling down to them. And seeing especially, right, as we're looking around, like, there's meditation signs in the back and right? It's— there's something to be said for, you know, tribal energy in each family. It's its own tribe, and you create your own culture. So for them to know and talk about, well, maybe one day they're going to get so upset, and someone's going to ask them, a teacher or whoever, like, well, why are you so upset? And they're like— and they'll explain, like, well, what should you do when you're upset? Like, well, my dad meditates. Maybe I should meditate. Right? That might trigger on for a child. So I like the idea that, you know, like when you said like, no, they don't necessarily do it. That's cool. Because a lot of people might out there assume like, well, why aren't you doing this with your kids? Why aren't you making it something they do? Because meditation should not be forced, right? This is not a—

right?

It's not a mandatory—

right?

It's not a mandatory thing, right? It's not a— it's not like I'm gonna be my medit— I'm a meditator. Now I want my whole family to do it. And we're all gonna feel better. No, no, no, no, that like— so, so I want you— I want— can you talk about that for a second of like, the, the, the, maybe the, the psychological dance that you had to maybe catch yourself with of trying maybe at certain points to get them to do more of what you were doing?

Well, it's funny you said that because I, you know, I found that not just with my own children, but with others where you see them maybe acting the way you, you know, I used to, or just in a different way. I have termed it, some, triggered, but really it's about not being able to let go, not being able to relax, not being able to take a seat. Now, I'm not perfect either. I don't think any of us are. Um, and sometimes I have to remind myself, uh, but I think that's part of being an adult with the awareness. People talk about awareness and mindfulness, and it's about the awareness, and it's also about the awareness, like for example, if I know I'm going to go to a certain family member's home, well, this was pre-COVID, for dinner, or even when I went to my niece's bat mitzvah. And I realized, you know what, I needed to meditate, although I had meditated earlier in the morning before we started the, you know, for the party after the synagogue, that I was going to have to meditate for about 10 more minutes just to kind of put myself in the right state to be able to go and interact with all sorts of people that I hadn't seen in years. And some that I just didn't want to interact with. But you do what you do.

Yeah. And that's a great precursor for people who are really stressed out, and especially where our political tensions are so high, even after inauguration. Oh, right. And when this episode comes out, it'll be months after that. But, but right, this is the beautiful thing. One of the meditations that I first started doing consistently was it was in a silent meditation group. And it was really Simple. On the in-breath, the words you say to yourself while you draw your breath in is clear mind, clear mind. And the space between when you finish that breath in and letting the breath out, they want you to say the words don't know. And here's the catch, right? For those of you who are like, okay, so clear mind, clear mind, right? Okay, we got it. We don't want anything to come in, right? Come into your mind and distract you. But why don't know? So the don't know is that within that split millisecond between you're focusing on having a clear mind, some crazy thought, some crazy feeling, some crazy memory will jump into there and try to sabotage you. And you're going to try to figure out what the heck that's about. And the answer to that is don't know.

Yeah, no, I agree 100%. When I was learning Transcendental, they taught you a certain a mantra to use. And then what I found was when I'm teaching people, some say, I don't want to use a mantra, some want to use a mantra. And, but I try to incorporate an affirmation. Maybe if you're going to use something because it's something you're trying to— maybe the word program is the wrong word, but people want to remind themselves and get in a state where, you know, like you said, you can use a particular word and it helps you with, you know, getting to the flow and it helps remind you of certain things. It reminds you of where you want to go with your practice.

Yeah. Yeah. And I know on the other side, people like the worrying about where to go and we can kind of, you know, wrap up with these little tidbits is that once people start getting into it, there's a lot of questioning of, am I doing it right? And is it working for me? So how would you address that?

You know, I tell people, and I appreciate that question because the 'am I doing it right' is the most often question. It's the question I hear most often. And I tell people, you know, you're creating your practice, and your practice doesn't have to be like my practice, and my practice doesn't have to be like yours, Jason. It doesn't. It can be individual. And that's the thing about my teaching is that there's no one-size-fits-all approach. And so while you may not be doing it the way I do it, you're still doing it right. You're still, you're still working. And it's something I'm of the belief, you know, there's no, for me, there's never been, well, some days a perfect meditation, but there are some days that are a lot better where you say to yourself, Boy, that was good. You know, I mean, just like, I really enjoyed that. I've done that again, not been going to Ohio State. I've done that at halftime during football games or after football games or things like that. Or, you know, again, in meeting with family members, because, you know, you just, you want to feel a certain way. And so it's a matter of just realizing that every meditation is going to be perfect. Not every time you take a seat is going to be perfect, but it's about taking a seat again and working with it.

Love it. Love it. So the name of your book is called Meditation, Not Medicine. It's available everywhere at this point.

At this point, um, my publisher has told me, you know, I know it's on Amazon, Goodreads, and a few other places, uh, Barnes Noble, that sort of thing. Um, the book is, is released, uh, within a day, a couple days of us speaking. And my website, people can come and get a lot of great information. For me, it's just about how can we all, especially in such difficult times, learn to address our stress, take better care of ourselves, take better care of our families, take better care of our friends. And we can do it by learning to just take a seat. And relax and reduce that stress. So when people go to, you know, meditationnotmedicine.com, that's my website though. There's a lot of videos. I'm on— my virtual assistant has told me, Adam, you have to be here. You have to be there. And I said, well, I, until about 2 weeks ago, I had heard, but I didn't even know what Pinterest was. I thought it was Pinterest. And yeah, my sister told me, she goes, no, Adam, that's where all the ladies hang out. I said, well, that's probably why I don't know about it. Right.

But it's an amazing resource for those who do know in the know and use it as leveraging for, for their advertising.

Right. They said, well, we could put your videos and other information up there. And I've been told, you know, go to YouTube and that I already have a YouTube channel. And, but things like that where people said, wow, you know, you just go where people are because especially during COVID I went from being able to be out in the streets, in the field, to— like yourself, you talked about with your practice, you're working with people from home. Zoom is the new office.

Yep. Yep. And what's even crazier, you're just talking about Pinterest, is this new app Clubhouse that just sprung up out of nowhere. And right now—

okay, great.

Right. So good. So we'll connect on that too. And right, I'm assuming, is it the same handle for you there on—

I am. It's a shorter— I've been on it once. I'm not, I'm just not somebody again. I think part of it's also age, but you know, you're the overwhelm being on so many platforms. Like I said, I had heard, I had known of Instagram, but until this, never really. And the publisher and other people say, oh, you gotta be here. You gotta be there. So I said, all right, I'll start an Instagram account. Right.

And you know, and then people like, um, talk about more stress to someone's life, right? To have to manage all these different platforms.

You bet the heck the Giants didn't make the playoffs. And I'm like, well, you know, I'm still a New Yorker, right?

I don't know if you can see my, uh, my Don Mattingly from when I was a kid on my starting lineup back there.

Sorry, I'm a Yankee fan as well.

Yeah, right. So even though I grew up in South Florida, I was still, you know, as we were talking about before, like, I'm still, still a Yankees fan growing up before we got a team here. And now he's the manager, right, of the, of the, of the Marlins. So it's, um, so it's very cool. So yeah, so for everybody out there, please, please, please check out Medicine Not Meditation, definitely on Instagram.

Meditation Not Medicine, right?

And then, sorry, Meditation Not Medicine. And you can check out the YouTube channel, everything like that. Same, the website is meditation.notmedicine.com. And check out Adam's book, and that is out now on Amazon. And please definitely check and support him on that.

Jason, thank you so much. I'm grateful for your time, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to speak to your audience. We are living in, well, again, without bringing up too much of the outside stuff, at a crazy time. And, you know, even I get it, I have to take, from MS, have to get prescriptions, but they send them by mail now. I can't go pick them up anymore. Right, right.

And everything in a way is certainly simpler than it used to be because we're now relying more on leveraging out. And this does create more jobs and it does create more things for other people who are, that's what they can do, right? If they can do Instacart or they can do Amazon deliveries, they can. So we are creating a, you know, a lot of jobs, you know, that in some ways weren't existing a few years ago. And it could make our life easier in those ways as well. And one of the ways that we really want to make your life easier is by meditating. So please, please, please, if you want a good crash course beginner way to do it, Adam is definitely the person to start following and checking out. And like always, if you did get value out of this episode, um, or you know someone who needs to hear this or any of our other episodes, please send it off to them. We're on all of the major podcast platforms and we would love it even more if you went on iTunes for those you who are Apple, uh, Apple Podcast subscribers, uh, leave us a starred and written review. Not only does that obviously tell us that we're doing a good job and our guests are— that we're bringing on are amazing and you're happy with them, but it also helps us get seen by more people. The more reviews we get, the more starred ratings we get, that actually brings us up in the ratings and we can get found by other people. And right now in the education space, we're in the top 500 podcasts. And my goal is to by the end of 2021, move it up to the top 100. So we want to thank everybody out there who has been giving us reviews and subscribing and, and checking us out. And again, you can follow us on You Winning Life on Instagram. And any other questions that you have about working with me or any of my associates, you can go to youwinninglife.com, and that'll take you to the website. Adam, it's been a pleasure.

Thank you, Jason. Grateful for your time.

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