Ep. 115-Sunil Godse: Trust Your Intuition

This is the You Winning Life podcast, your number one source for mastering a positive existence. Each episode we'll be interviewing exceptional people, giving you empowering insights and guiding you to extraordinary outcomes. Learn from specialists in the worlds of integrative and natural wellness, spirituality, psychology, and entrepreneurship so you too can be winning life. Now here's your host, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified neuro-emotional technique practitioner, LMFT 🎗️ and certified entrepreneur coach Jason Wasser. All right, everybody, welcome back to the You Winning Life podcast. As you know, I'm Jason Wasser, licensed therapist, certified entrepreneur coach, and also one of my other favorite things to talk about, neuro-emotional technique. And we, as always, as you heard in the intro, just to repeat it, we talk about psychology and mindset, entrepreneurship, spirituality, integrative and alternative medicine. And today's guest is kind of combining a lot of those things, pretty much all of those things together in what he's doing. Sunil Gotsi is like an expert in intuition, and he's an author, he's a coach, he's an entrepreneur, he's a mentor, he's giving classes and workshops and doing some really insane stuff. And one of the things I'm so excited to have this conversation about with you, with him, for those of you listening, is, um, is that intuition leads us way more than we might think. And from a mindset side, from a relationship side, from financial, everything goes back to our intuition and to our stories and to our stuff that we don't even realize we're carrying. So, so, you know, I'm really excited to be unpackaging a lot of that with you today. And I already know that anybody who's listening to this episode is going to walk out changed.

So, wow. Thank, thank you so much for having me on. And, uh, yeah, happy to, to dive into some of the research I've done with this this very real thing called intuition and lots of case studies on, you know, how it's driven, you know, people to make the right decisions at the right time and surround themselves with the right people. And what I find really interesting is as I go through these interviews, so I've been on over 100 since, since we started out down this journey, is the listeners are actually taking themselves on that journey by reflecting back on the times that intuition hit them. And it now becomes reality for them and how it reacts. And we'll talk about the uniqueness of that. And so I'm hoping that at the end of this podcast interview, your listeners will go away with real actionable things that they can do to sharpen their intuition so that every decision they make is the right one, no matter what situation they're in.

Yeah. So I know that like this phrase, trust your gut, is such an old and common phrase. And as a therapist, right, I know the distinction of separating the triune brain theory, the three-brain theory of your rational brain, your neocortex, your mammalian brain, which is where your emotions and timeless memories are. So, you know, as I joke, that Backstreet Boys song comes on and you know all the words and you're dancing around in your car, right? Or whatever it is that we want to, you know, playfully joke around about it, about a song. And then that reptilian brain is your survival instinct, right? It's your fight or flight. It's your breathing. It's your basic mechanism of survival. The me, I need to be okay type of thing. And when those three things, those parts of your brain are not working together, we kind of have some chaos going on. And that can create conflict, that can create anxiety, it can create body discomfort and all these other things, right? It's, it's, it's really the, what we call a non-congruent experience. And I know that like intuition is kind of like part of that process. Walk us through first, you know, let's go into a little bit of the science. And then I obviously want to get into your background and how you stumbled upon this, and this became part of your personal culture. But from your perspective of the science, the research on intuition, because it sounds woo-woo, right? Like, trust your gut, and you know, you're going to get signs and signals, and your body will tell you, or your mind will tell you, or whatever it is. I know that like 200, 300 years ago in the medical world, they separated mind and body, right? And in Eastern philosophies and Eastern, you know, in integrative medicine, they've, you know, it's never been separated. Your mind and your body are the same. And therefore, sometimes when you have symptoms of stress, symptoms of disease is really dis-ease. You're not at ease, that you're— something is telling you something, that something's not right.

Right.

So walk us through from your, where you're at today, from your vantage point, what is your perspective on all of that?

Yeah, absolutely. So when, when I got, got into really taking a deep dive into intuition, for me, it was really figuring out because I have an engineering background. There's two parts that I saw to intuition. One was sort of this, this artistic side and the scientific side. And so if you go into engineering, you know, if you look at the steel, for example, steel has mass-like properties and it has energetic or wave-like properties. And so I always thought that there were, you know, sort of two sides to the coin, so to speak. And so when I looked at intuition, you know, I really couldn't find a definition that resonated with me. I went online and things like that. And I kept wondering, like, I talked to so many other people. If you look at Jeff Bezos and all that, they all talk about intuition. But I was really struggling to figure out, okay, why can't I find a definition of intuition and who can enlighten me? So if I looked at the scientific side, so let's say, let's start there. So let's see if anything's written. I looked to my colleagues in my circle, And there was this neurologist that I thought, okay, let me approach him to see if he can lend some credibility to the scientific part of intuition. And so I go to his hospital, I turn on the cameras, and you know what? I didn't know what to expect. So I'm thinking, you know, maybe I'll just put, you know, maybe a quarter in the time machine thing because, you know, this is gonna be really short. And I turn on the cameras, I ask him, does intuition exist? And he says, it's very real. And from a neurological perspective, what happens is that the brain actually gets gets short-circuited and it, you know, go from the amygdala right to the gut. And so what happens is that's where you get those bodily signals. Initially, some people feel it in the gut. So there's that brain sort of body or neurological sort of pathway that he was enlightening me on. The other thing that he said is that it is subconscious in nature and it happens much earlier than we actually think it does, that we're consciously aware of it. And so, and he uses it for his patients and things like that. So that really got me really interested to say, okay, so where's this research that this neurologist is talking about? And so I went to this academic database, typed the word intuition in, and I'm expecting what, 12 or 13 articles? 53,000 articles since 1990 on intuition. And when I paired intuition and relationships, Close to 66%, two-thirds of them had to do with your relationships and intuition. And so I'm like, wow, there's a lot here. And now I'm looking at brain scans and I'm looking at MRIs and I'm looking at these studies. And so what the science shows is, and, and if we go back to me not finding a definition, what happens is the, when intuition kind of hits your brain, it hits that, that fight or flight area. It's the amygdala, the emotional control center.. And what happens then is that there's only one thing. You're either going to be eaten by a saber-tooth tiger or you're not. And one of the things that with your intuition hitting there is that there's no capacity for language. So that made complete sense as to, you know, okay, so I have to define this in my way. The sensations that I get, or then we'll talk about intuitive signals, are my own ones. And so this is where the language is very unique to me. So we can go to the social media, themes and memes and say, you know, I trust my gut and, you know, I'm walking in the present moment, all these things around, you know, I hear a voice and everybody's talking about it. I said, yeah, you know, that could have happened to me. But respectfully, people don't know what they're talking about because these signals are very, very unique to each one of us. And so, okay, so when I was 5 years old, I remember distinctly that this voice told me, so I wanted to buy these video games. My dad said, you know, they're too expensive. And this distinct voice says, Sunil, That's not what you want to hear. Go door to door to raise money. That's what that voice said. And so, I listened. I ignored my dad's advice and I said, okay, I'm going to listen to this voice. I went door to door and I raised $200. $100 went to my dad and the other $100 went to a charity because my school was doing that. And I was thinking, wow, like at 5 years old, I had this thing. Now that I look back, there's this thing called intuition that I think that's what it was. So, were people born with it? And lo and behold, there's this research paper that shows that infants as young as 2 months old have been shown to have intuitive capabilities, or as this paper calls it, intuitive physics, with the experiments that they did, which they didn't think infants should have, but their intuition was getting them to reach for things that commonly you wouldn't think that they would have knowledge to reach about. So now here I'm getting pretty excited. And with, uh, with Dr. Rathbone, the neurologist, saying that it happens much earlier than we're consciously aware of it, there was two papers that showed that intuition actually hits you on average 7 to 10 seconds before you actually make a decision. And research that's supposedly coming out of University of Toronto, another colleague was telling me is that they've actually tracked that as early as 23 seconds.

Oh wow.

Yeah. So it hasn't been published. I haven't seen it at all yet. But another colleague of mine in sort of that mindset intuition space was telling me that she's heard about this fellow's research up in at the University of Toronto. And that's because the research techniques have gotten much better than the papers in the '80s and '90s. Right. And so here I'm seeing these MRIs and things like that. And another piece of paper showed that when you look at trust, and this is very important when it comes to relationships, trust is developed in under 14 seconds. And so this is, and the way they measured it was in a business context. So in a personal context, I'm a firm believer that it's much faster because in a business context, you're thinking about rationalization. You've got these processes and you're really kind of thinking about your rational brain taking over. And so this research is very, very clear that intuition is very much rooted in science. And so we've got all these things with trust and timing that are there, the amygdala happening. So these are really, really things that I was excited about getting rooted in. So now that there's sort of this scientific part of it, now what about the, you know, the artistic side? So what is it? What are the— how does it work from these things called signals? Because I heard a voice and then the thing is when I heard a voice, there were all these sort of signals that happened to me that were different as I was growing up. But the unfortunate part is when we all take a— when we all start growing up, we start listening to people that are giving us bad advice. We have societal norms and expectations, and we start to fall in the wayside of following groups or cliques or advice that goes against what our intuition is telling us. And that's where these signals are very, very important. And so I interviewed over 1,000 people to see, okay, I had different signals, so how did they, what were their signals? And there's two types of signals that we have. There are the positive ones and the negative ones. The positive ones are the ones that tell you, to move ahead and to take a decision. And as, you know, we are all unique people, we all have unique signals. And so there's a CEO that I interviewed who's now run two multimillion-dollar companies, and his unique positive signal is that he sees this omen on his right shoulder. And I'm trying to see, okay, does this omen have shape or color? Does it have any like eyes or anything? And he says, no, I just see this apparition, But whatever I'm doing when I'm hiring someone, putting, talking to a vendor or doing a business deal, and when that omen pops up, he says yes, he just quits whatever they're saying and he says yes. And like I said, two multimillion-dollar businesses on an omen.

Right. So I just want to pause right there for a second because like for the average person, let's just, you know, vernacularly calling the average person the average person, but for many people out there, are going to hear this and be like, this sounds crazy. This sounds like there might be a mental health issue. There may be, right, auditory or visual hallucinations. Maybe there's some schizophrenia going on, right? How do we differentiate? I mean, as a therapist, I, I, you know, I can identify and differentiate between what we're talking about, what you're talking about, versus the average mental health challenge.

Yep.

How, how did these people that you've talked to first understand that A, I'm not crazy. B, I know this sounds crazy. C, people are going to think I'm crazy. And D, I'm going to keep going all in on this and hone this to make— to use this as a leverageable skill versus being afraid and freaking people out or being afraid that they're going to turn people away because of this.

Yeah. And a lot of this is pattern matching. And so when you— and so the biggest exercise that I have people do when it comes to their signals is look back in history and look back at when these signals had come up or what you thought were signals, or even better, think about the good decisions that you made and the bad decisions. And what did it feel like in the moment? And so yes, there's going to be gut feelings. Yes, there are going to be these voices, but is there something earlier than that? And is there something earlier than that? And so in the CEO's case, Drew Green's case, he had to go back and think about the times that, okay, this thing comes up, he might've noticed it, but 2 or 3 times now, it seems to be a common pattern that this thing that he notices on his right shoulder, and this is pretty odd, that something on his right shoulder is coming up and then it leads to something positive. And every time then he tests that, it works for him. And so some people, you were mentioning visions, right? And so people, and this used to be one question I used to ask all the interviewees for my podcast series is, have you ever been connected with someone? And a lot of times people had visions of what their friend was going through or their colleague, or in one case, a dog. And they had visions of something that was going to happen or had happened at that moment. And in some cases, they were able to pick up the phone. You know, Nick Bradley, who I interviewed, his dog got shot and he wasn't there. His dog getting shot. And he picks up the phone and asks his mom, is there everything okay with, I forget the, I think it was Elsie was the name, I forget. And his mom said, no, no, no. But just before that phone call, the dog had gotten shot. And so these things are patterns that we put together. Not everybody's going to really understand that there's that sort of the, and I'm gonna put woo-woo in quotes because people who do see, like I had an NHL hockey coach Jason Wasser, ex-NHL hockey coach, and he says intuition comes from the cosmos. So you would think that this— there's this person in my mind, it was driven by data to put professional hockey players. He used to coach for the New York Rangers on the ice at the right time. He was telling me time and time again where he made decisions that baffled people on the bench or his assistant coaches, but it was the right decision to do. And he's talking about it coming from the cosmos. If that's what he thinks it is, if people think it's manifestation, or if people just think it's data or, or, um, experience, in my mind, I really don't care how you define it. Remember, it hits the amygdala, you define it. So if that's too, too much of a stretch for you, then it could be that you haven't looked at that pattern matching, or you think it's something different, even though it may be a vision, but you see it as something else. You define it as something else. The idea for me is that whatever that pattern is, whatever that intuitive signal is, that you put your own language around it, but just recognize that that happens because that is a signal. And so when that signal pops up, you, you need that inventory of signals, uh, both positive and negative, so that when you do make a decision— every decision comes with a signal, right? So if you're eating lunch, that's different, you know, you're not going to get much of a signal there. But when you have these much more important decisions these signals are amplified a bit and your attention span should be amplified so that you're listening to, okay, I'm going to make a career change, or I really don't like this person, or I want to go into business. How does it feel? And those signals will tell you whether you're making the right decision or not. And so, when it comes to positive signals, that's exactly what it is. And the negative signals are just telling you to back away. But the important thing with the negative signals, and this is where people get these wrong, is that your negative Actually start very subtle in nature. And as you, as you tend to start to ignore these subtle signals, they actually get louder and sometimes they change. And people have heard like someone got into a bad relationship. She actually heard the words, "Get out." But because she ignored the initial signals, she became financially bankrupt. And she just ignored it, ignored it, ignored it to finally she heard these words and she let the guy go. But She was bankrupt. Another fellow, Darius Moshardeh, who does, I guess, Core Values, running a 9-figure company. And it was his time to leave. And he just ignored it, got a little bit anxious, and he was sitting in his car and he just blurted the words, "I quit." And he said, he's just looking like, where did those words come from? And he knew right at that. And then he looked at pattern matching. And he, when we reflected back on our interview, He said, "Yeah, no, it started as an anxiety. It started like this. I ignored that and I ignored that." And we went through the path of his signals to the point where he was sitting in his car and finally said, "I quit." And then he goes into the boardroom and says, "This is just right for me and I quit." And he didn't have to. This is a 9-figure company that he was running. But for his intuition, this was the next chapter for his life. He should have quit a long time ago. And so those are how the signals work. And What's interesting is not everybody's going to be tapped into that, as you say. And so I was interviewing one entrepreneur and I was asking him about the intuitive signals that he had. And you know, it's not something you commonly ask. Let's go for a latte. Hey, what are your intuitive signals? Right? Yeah. I mean, you typically ask about the weather, how you're doing.

You got to warm them up a little bit first.

A little bit, right? Or they're going to like, oh, this Sunil guy is really cuckoo. Maybe I'll pass on that coffee. No. So I was asking him about his negative signals. And he says, Sunil, nobody's ever asked me that. I never thought about that. But as we start to talk about his failures that he got into, he kept grabbing his left earlobe. And 10 minutes into our conversation, it just hit it. Boom. Sunil, I just realized what my signal is. Every single time he got into a business opportunity for the wrong reasons, which is money, fame, ego, his left earlobe kept pulsating with heat. And as we're talking, he's doing that. And now he reflects and he says, I now remember that when I got into it, I wanted to go to the doctor because I couldn't figure out what's going on with my left earlobe, as he's talking to his wife. And so this is how that pattern matching works. And this is how unique it is. Now it doesn't necessarily have to be unique. You don't have to go for, okay, because he had a left earlobe, you know, does my—

Like playing poker and you have a tell.

Right? Exactly.

And I really do want to connect this back just for a moment to just in case people were wondering about this, like, I feel like there's like one bit of missing information for the person out there that may know, like, okay, well, how do we get from here to there? Right? How did that show up in our body and manifest in our body? And you were talking about, like, we started off with this conversation just to, I want to do a quick refresh of, right? We talked about, right, the whole concept of trusting your gut and correlating that to intuition and how our brain does send biochemical signaling to our body that does manifest in somatic, in internal, in our body experiencing. And we all have something called the gut-brain axis, the GBA. And I'm just going to read it straight off of the nih.gov, you know, Wikipedia, whatever, just a straight definition. So it's very concise. But the gut-brain axis consists of a bidirectional communication between our central nervous system and our enteric nervous system, which is our gut. And it links emotional and cognitive centers of the brain with peripheral functions, including intestines. In other words, it also has an influence on our gut microbiome, microbiome. And we know that like our gut microbiome, the right, creates the dopamine and the serotonin, all that stuff. So it does affect our emotional experiences, which the right— the— so we talked about like, you know, if you want to clean up your health anywhere, you want to clean up anything in your life, clean up your gut first, right? Clean all the clutter there. And that will help alleviate stressors in general, but also general health conditions. But I also know that like, those who aren't hearing it at that micro level, that little whisper, right? Either a— sometimes you unfortunately, their pattern to have to go through macro really bad negative experiences in order for them to make changes.. But I see this all as one systemic link to each other, which is if you're not paying attention to the little hints here on the outside of you, what's going on with the little hints on the inside, right? Is it your diet? Is it your nutrition? Is it your exercise? Right? What's going on that also needs to be cleaned up internally to help you be more, you know, Brené Brown uses the word vulnerability as a strength, not a weakness. So I'm going to, I'm going to stay with that, right? To be more vulnerable, to be more open, receptive, and right, vulnerable in a positive way to hear these messages coming in, so that it doesn't have to be something that you're oblivious to, to really get changes and difference. And I truly, truly, truly, truly believe, and I share this with all my clients who come in for anxiety, that anxiety is a GPS to tell them specifically what's going on. And it's not the reason why you think, it's the belief about the reason. Why you might have it, right? It's the more macro theme behind this. And if you work on that and you change the macro theme— I'm not here to work on your anxiety. I'm changed to work on why the anxiety is an issue for you, right? Belief. And if that gets changed, then you're fundamentally going to have more changes in your life because it's the macro, not the micro. So the anxiety is, you know, the engine light on until, you know, other lights show up and then your engine you know, just blows up on the road. But that's what we're talking about here as everybody— you guys are listening, like when it becomes a major thing where it's going to show up, like Sunil just said about that person who went bankrupt, that was the engine blowing. But right, but then the check tire light went on, and then the low oil went on, and then the check engine light went on, and then they started hearing the bumps and the, you know, knocks and all the little words that we talked about, right? So we're— if we're missing all of those things, in other words, if you're not realizing that there's a connection between the chaos in your life, this is the stuff that you need to be looking into.

Yeah. And I'll give you a direct case study of that as well. So one of the, the, the people I met and I interviewed was somebody by the name of Ashley Michelle and her story. And she's actually one of the case studies that goes through this 7-day challenge I have where she took it and the transformation she had around the belief of anxiety was, was phenomenal. So this is someone who walked into her boyfriend's apartment, which was a murder scene because he had just murdered their common friend in their bathtub. He closes the door behind her, locks it, puts a knife to her back, and says, "I'm already going away for one murder. Might as well make it next." She needed to rely on her intuition to manage her emotions and manage him. She got choked, assaulted. She was asked to clean up the blood. And her intuition was waiting, waiting, waiting for a moment that his back was turned, and then she heard, "Now." She ran, unlocked the doors, ran down 18 flights of steps, called 911, and apparently he came down after her and she missed him, or he missed her, I would imagine, in seconds, otherwise she was done. And from that point on, she lived with anxiety, fear, PTSD, and she couldn't get out of her, like she changed all the inside to wood because she needed wood. She couldn't get out of her, her apartment, she didn't know how to jog, which she loved, go back to the gym. And then she took the 7-day challenge and it got her back to listening to these signals, figuring out what was the problem she needed to address, how did intuition guide her on that specific, just that problem of just living and trusting people. And then she was able to trust, figure out who I should trust, have the power to trust herself and be triggered by these signals. And after the 7 days, she was able to finally strengthen the intuition because I actually measured the intuition using a score in that. She was able to finally get out of her apartment without looking over her shoulder. She was finally able to go jogging. She was finally able to go to the gym. And fast forward a year later, she's now in the process of writing a book about it with the website and writing blogs and helping other people heal from a point of terror. She couldn't get out of her apartment. And so that what you talk about, the belief around anxiety is absolutely real. And so when, when intuition changes that belief, because you've got signals that are helping you survive, um, you take stock in those signals and that's how you transform your life. And it is about stripping your beliefs. It is about stripping the people in your life. It's about trusting yourself, trusting those signals. And one thing I say is if she can do something like that in 7 days, can you imagine what you can do for your life in 7 days, a month, whatever it is, or one day? And this is the thing that when I interview people for my podcast show, I generally send them questions that are much deeper and they enjoy the conversation so much so because they've never been asked these things. It's the why behind why they did things. And we get into some really interesting discussions and they have as well. And they've loved the podcast. Like one said, he's been on, he says, I don't know, 100,000 people. Rob Kelly was, he was making 7 figures homeless, 7 figures again. He treated some stars on addiction. And he says, I've been on, I don't know, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of podcasts. This has been by far the best I've ever had in the 20+ years I've been on radio and podcasts because we, not only do we get into his life, but I figured out what, like, he was judging himself and he never knew and realized that until I pointed it out because he has had an addicted brain. And from my perspective, he was trying to show everybody up. He was trying to be in first class because he says, look at me. And he never tied that in the 20 years. He thought it was the addicted brain was always on until I pointed that out. And he said, you're the first person in 20 years to nail that. Yeah. And, and to me it was a cathartic moment, but to me, that's what happens when you ignore your intuition is you're living your life through the values of other people's opinions. You're trying to judge yourself, or you're trying to judge— you, you, you pander to other people's judgment. And when you do, you've got their values you're going through and your intuition is giving you signals. You're not paying attention. So I'm here to say, listen, Grab yourself by the ears, forget all these people who you're living your life through, live life through your own story. What are you meant to do here? And your intuition is telling you to take this step. That's what living in the present moment is because you're making a decision. Here's a signal. You're making another decision. Here's a signal. Who cares what other people think? If this is meant for you, then walk that path. And one thing I say is, this is my train. This is my track. Either you're going to love what I'm doing and where this train is headed, or you get off at the next station. And if you continue to bother me, I'll kick you off myself. And for me, it's just that stark. It's just—

yeah, we have to give ourselves permission, like you're saying, to do that. And that's some of the things, like when you talk about core values before, right? I have a very strong doorman principle, and I share that with my clients. It's funny, as we're talking, so it's Friday morning, even though this podcast is going to come out you know, much later. But like, it's Friday morning, June 11th, while we're recording this podcast right now. And right now I'm on hour 36 and 15 minutes— hour 36 and 15 minutes of an 18-hour fast.

Wow.

So I originally set out because I've been doing intermittent fasting over the last couple weeks, and I got to 18 hours, and I'm like, I feel great. And I'm doing water and, you know, the things that you're allowed to eat on the intermittent fasting protocol. And I made some— I'm like, alright, well, let me see if I can get it to 22 hours. And like, I'm still seeing clients, I'm great. Like, I'm gonna keep hydrating and all this stuff. And I'm trust— I'm checking in with my body. I'm like, I don't have any anxiety. I'm not freaking out that I'm going to get sick. I've done so far so good. I'm hydrated. I'm checking my bodily fluids for that. So now I'm at 11 o'clock at night last night. I'm like, let me make some little egg frittatas. And if I'm really, really hungry and I'm really desiring it, I might— like, at the end of it being made, I'll have one even though it's midnight. And I make it and I check in with myself and I'm like, smells great, but I can also go to bed now after it cools, and I can have an extra 6, 7, 8 hours to my fast. And then I'll make a decision in the morning if I— and I woke up this morning, I feel amazing and energized, and I'm hydrating, and I have my water and my coffee. And now it's 11:15 in the morning, after being up since 7:30. And I'm feeling great. So all right, there's— and meanwhile, for years, it's been this other side of the coin of like, oh my God, how am I going to see my clients if I don't energize myself? How am I going to help my clients if I'm not getting the right fuel in my body? And I'm trusting everything. I'm trusting— I'm obviously doing everything according to you know, the science behind it. And that's today, just exactly what you're talking about. Now, it doesn't mean that I'm gonna do another fast for 4 days. I probably— I don't know, I'm gonna do what feels right in the moment because I'm checking in with myself, not because I have to meet a goal or because I'm competing with people or whatever it is. I'm just finding that like, this feels really good today, and it may not feel good tomorrow, and I'm probably not gonna fast tomorrow. And, and, you know, I'm reminded of a story where it first kind of hit me years ago. And we were talking about this pre-interview where I've had some crazy wild stories. Some of them have been more auditory, or, you know, or, or visions. But I remember years ago, I was talking to a client. And I usually will reference like movies like The Matrix or some other like pop culturally type stuff. But I, for the first time ever in my practice, I turned to this client and I go, wow, it really sounds like you're trying to be the little engine that could. Never in my life, in any other context, with friends, with anything, have I ever referenced that book. And the client looked at me and goes, my great so-and-so, my great-grandfather wrote that book.

Wow.

Wow. Right? I'm like, okay, that was weird, right? I'm like, just so— that was one of the first experiences that I may have had. And I'm looking back over the years, And I'm looking back like, okay, what were some other times, uh, where, you know, other things like that? I have someone who survived, um, a mentor and a colleague, a friend of mine who survived the Sbarro's pizza bombing in Jerusalem, uh, 2001. And he usually was the type of person who would never go ask for anything if it came back cold or came back— didn't come back exactly how we were— he never would want to bother anybody. And that day, for whatever reason, he's like, you know what, my pizza's cold, let me have them reheat it. And he brought it back to the thing and he goes, I'm gonna wait up on the top part of, you know, in Jerusalem there was this an upper part, um, and was the main intersection in downtown Jerusalem. And he's like, I'm leaving back to America, I just want some more quiet, there's a bunch of chaos in them, I just want— and he's like, all right, I'm gonna go sit back up there. And the waitress goes, I'll bring it to you, you don't have to come back up in 5 minutes. And because he sent his food back— now obviously there's many people that unfortunately died in that terrorist attack, but for some reason he did something radically different that day than what he ever did. And that saved his life. So like, there's so many incredible— unfortunately, people lost their life, but not saying that his intuition could have— maybe, you know, there's no judgment in that, but it saved him. And so I'm like wondering, like, as I'm hearing that story about the person you worked with, that her boyfriend was, you know, did that awful, awful thing, and all these other things, even on a more simplistic level, like you're saying about like taking the right job or even going in for and being in relationship with someone or being friends with someone or going to an event or, you know, and I find that a lot of times anxiety and depression kind of get mixed together. And someone's like, well, I don't have motivation to go do that. Well, then I would go back into, like you were saying, like, well, what's your intuition about why that may or may not be healthy for you to be doing versus the peer pressure or the social pressure or the social media pressure on that?

And usually when I, when I get down to that, what does it feel like? What do you feel like? And describe it. It's pretty clear.. It's very, very clear because then also when they're talking to me, you know, they've stripped away the noise or all the other opinions. And, you know, they get into sort of a funk when they're thinking and it's just me and them. And it's pretty clear. And then they start learning about these things. And it's, you know, this thing was really, really important to me. And because when I ignored my intuition, you know, I mean, I just heard this story when I was 5, but there were 3 things that happened to me that were just really, in my opinion, really bad. First one was, if those watching, I'm a South Asian male, you know, there's 3, there's 4 career doors you can go into. It's doctor, lawyer, engineer, or failure, right? And so the door number 3 was what I chose. My dad was an engineer. He kept talking to me about that. Societal norms as an East Indian is sort of kind of pushing you towards that. And yet my intuition is saying, be the entrepreneur. Everything you've done growing up is entrepreneurial nature. Even in engineering, when I was in university, I was doing some entrepreneurship stuff. I ran a company that was making $150,000 as a student in engineering. So it was just in my— it was me. Yet I fell prey to this societal norms, my dad. And I started practicing and I hated it. And 2 years into that stint, I got a chance to be a private investor in a restaurant. And I said, "Yes, I'm going to definitely do that." And pretty soon I was making 5 times more in dividends doing that than engineering. And I quit. My dad said, "I'm never talking to you again." And I was living life like on top of the world. I had 6 businesses, total $20 million a year. Then I got into consulting and then I struck again where I ignored my intuition and I had this big contract in the US, huge dollars, and the contract terms were changing. And my intuition's giving me red flags. And as I'm talking to the people down there, something, my intuition saying, don't trust what they're saying. Yet the money was so big that I said, no, no, no, no, no. I convinced myself it was okay. I spent every single penny to go down there and the company never paid me. And I came back broke at 23 cents in my bank account. I was about to be married a couple years. Thankfully my wife was in India and she's phoning me as I'm driving across the US-Canada border. And she says, yeah, how are things going? And I said, yeah, great. But meanwhile, I don't know where I'm gonna be sleeping that night. I mean, what are we going to get? I mean, 23 cents is not going to go great for wedding expenses. And perhaps the most devastating was while I was in engineering, I had a friend reach out to me. She was being stalked at the time and I was doing coaching as well. And she says, Sunil, I really need to talk to you. And this, again, this intuitive signal is saying meet with her that afternoon. And a couple of buddies convinced me, no, come on, let's go for beers. And I said, mm, okay, let me ignore that signal, which was pretty loud. And I said, okay, let's meet a couple of days later. The very next day, that stalker walked up to her at a bus shelter and put a bullet through her forehead and killed her instantly. And so that was the impetus for me to take a deep dive into understanding these signals. And the thing with the negative, when we talk about these signals as well, like some people may think, okay, come on, what are these? Like, this is just a signal. Like, what are these signals? You know, are they packed with information? And we talk A bit about pattern matching and things like that. When I did the research, I dove further into the research. There are actually 4 types of intuition that inform these signals. And the best way I can describe all 4 is to go through a case study from a non-believer. So one of the guys I met is a fellow by the name of John Rothschild, who was an ex-investment banker. And at the time when I started my research on intuition, not a lot of people had taken a deep dive into the science. A lot of people knew about from manifestation, meditation, you know, voices from God and that stuff. So John, who's an ex-investment banker, that's what he thinks intuition is. So to an investment banker where data and spreadsheets rule your life, he was saying, Sunil, look, intuition does not exist, but I'll give you an hour. I haven't seen you in a long time. So come on down and we'll talk about intuition for what, 5 minutes, I think, and we'll catch up for the rest of the hour. And so I'm driving down to see him and I said, wow, this is going to be a great interview. And so I'm thinking this is going to be pretty short. So we sit, we sit down, I set up the camera in the boardroom and I turn it on. So this is now all on camera. And I start telling him about the CEO that sees omens and these things like cosmos and these signals, trying to convince him that, you know, this stuff is kind of real for people. And he goes, yeah, Sunil, you know, the guy with omens, I'd like to shake his hand. I would really like, I wish I could meet that fellow. But okay, look, Sunil, your decisions that you make in life are based on learning and experience. And so, okay, okay. So now this is where the 4 types of intuition come in. One of the 4 types is called experiential intuition. So if you look at your brain like an iceberg, 90% below water, which is subconscious, the 10% above water. When you're born, you have 5,000 to 6,000 incidents per day. When you're elderly-aged, aged, when you're older, 28,000 to 35,000 events per day. Each one of these events, these experiences, these learnings, both good and bad, formal and informal, are put into the subconscious area of your brain like a library every single day. So when you get a signal, you better believe that that signal comes with billions of data points. And so if it's a positive signal, it's going to say Sunil, You've done something like this in the past and it's worked and it's worked well. And I see the positivity out of making that decision. So here's a positive signal to say, excellent, go ahead. And conversely, if it's a negative signal, it's going to say, Jason, uh, uh, uh, uh, somewhere in the past you made something similar. It didn't turn out well for you. And so therefore you shouldn't be making this decision. And if you ignore me, Hey, here, I'm just going to send you something louder and I'm going to change until you actually listen to me. And so the problem that we do is we don't take enough stock in what these negative signals are right from the start. So if you and I, let's say, are doing an exercise and let's say we have this gut feeling and you do the proper exercise and gut feeling for you is signal number 1 and I'm lazy and I think gut feeling is signal number 1, but it's actually signal number 3. When I get a gut feeling, I've missed 2 signals because I'm lazy. And if I've missed signal number 1 and signal number 2, that means I've made 2 bad decisions. If I've made 2 bad decisions, I could be just stubbing my toe or I could be headed towards bankruptcy. I don't know. And so when I was explaining this to John, I said, sometimes your experiential intuition has you go against the data. He goes, that's funny you mentioned that, Sunil, because I actually have an example of that. So John was in the business of putting franchise locations in Wendy's, McDonald's, things like that. So he would look at, on a scale of 10, a 9 out of 10 meant that they put a franchise there. And they look at demographics, development in the area, you know, traffic patterns, things like that. There was this one dilapidated place in Toronto. And now we're going to get into the second of the four called situational intuition. He walks into this dilapidated area of Toronto that his team has evaluated as a 5.5 out of 10, not even close. And he goes, "Something is telling me," and now he says, "Perhaps my intuition, I'm not sure, but something is telling me to put a location here." And he goes against his team's advice. That location happened to be the Beer Market, which was the most profitable venture or series of franchises in his whole portfolio. And now John's getting it. And at some point John's purpose changes. He says he no longer wants to be on the sidelines looking at businesses from an Excel spreadsheet as an investment banker. He actually wants to run one. And so the third of the four is called relational intuition. What relational intuition does is it filters the people through to only allow those you want to listen to who truly care about moving your life forward. And so all the people who were concerned about money, fame, ego, high-end restaurants, limousines, private jets, security, not one of them asked him why. All of them told him, yeah, you're an idiot. Why? Like, that's— why are you doing that? Come on. There's only one person that ever asked him why, and that was his wife. And his wife says, John, why do you want to do this? "And now I'm paraphrasing what John's saying. This is now 45 to 50 minutes into the interview. Sometimes you can have all the data, but you just have to trust your intuition." I looked at my wife in her eyes and I said, "It just feels right." And the fourth of the four is the creative intuition. Creative intuition is the one that actually has you make the decision. So eating a sandwich or turning left at a light Your creative interest is pretty low. In John's case, you would think somebody with a huge roster of successes as an investment banker, $3 to $4 million a year, you would think his intuition would pick a business that is great revenues, healthy cash flows, strong balance sheet. Nope. His intuition says, "John, you're going to run this tiny bankrupt little restaurant over here." And so he quits. He rolls up his sleeve. Goes from $3 to $4 million a year to zero or less. And he opens the door to that tiny bankrupt little restaurant. That restaurant happened to be Eastside Mario's location number one. And over the next 20 years, he grew that to over $2 billion, over 1,000 locations across the world. Because it just felt right. That's the power of intuition when you tap into it.. And more people need to have that success. It's not about financial success. It was about him following his purpose. And when you take care of the inputs, the outputs always take care of themselves. And your inputs are your intuitive signals and the outputs are intrinsic success and they lead to other success. That's the power of intuition.

So the way that you pulled all that together with the last few words is purpose.

Mm-hmm.

And as a therapist, I'm not here to solve problems. I'm here to get you more clear with your purpose, because when you're working more on your purpose, then there's less problems. When you're aligned with your core values and you're making decisions from your core values, there's less chaos. Yes, you're part— right, you're partnering with people in your life personally, socially, romantically, physically, professionally, whatever, free time, what you're doing in your free time is in alignment with that. So, right, if we're taught— if people are listening and they're like, well, how do I remove some of the chaos? Don't focus on removing the chaos. Focus on getting more clear.

Yes.

With the simplicity of, well, what is my purpose? And then that brings, well, I don't know, I'm not sure, I thought it might be this. Well, okay, well, what would be fun for you? What would be playful for you? I always avoid the word happiness because happiness is just an emotion that— no different than fear and resentment and stubbornness, right? But, but, but I feel like, like, joy is a state of being versus happiness is just a response because, yeah, you're happy, right? So it's in contentment is really what I love focusing on. What would make you truly content?

Yes.

Not that there's not room for growth, but when you achieve it, you'll feel satisfied, you know, and, um, you know, you want to go back for more, but you don't need to today. And you'll be like, okay, that was good. Like, I can, you know, I'm going to hold out for the next couple weeks to go back to this restaurant. I'm not going to go back tomorrow, right? I was content. So I think that's like really, as my perspective as a therapist and as a coach, when I'm working with people or businesses or their businesses or athletes or whatever, is what would be that really end picture of bringing joy and pleasurable and fun and simple. It doesn't have to be complex and a lot of times the simple answer is the 99% answer.

Yeah, and it all depends upon where your filtration mechanism is. Like you can get rid of some people in your life but if you don't know how to filter that through your core values, your intuition, then that's a dirty filter. Your holes are much bigger than that and so you're still going to allow all these other people because you've got the ones that are immediately giving you troubles but if you're not if you don't know what you want and you vocalize that through your core values and use that as a filter, then— because that filter is gonna allow you to surround yourself with the right people and automatically repel the others. Then from that, the experiences come because now you have a good foundation of support personally and just outside you. Then you can get the contentment and the joy. And you're right, happiness is a— you're absolutely right in the choosing those words because that contentment means that everything you do you're happy with. There's no regrets. And that's where the growth comes. And we shouldn't be hanging our hat on growth in terms of square footage or brand or things like that. If that is a symbol, that's an intrinsic symbol of success, fantastic. But don't confuse the intrinsic with the extrinsic. And as much as you can talk your way out of that, you yourself know whether it's extrinsic or intrinsic. You know whether it's ego or not. Yeah, I don't have to ask you to pull that out. And so if you're fooling yourself, you're wasting your time. You're wasting your time. And there's something that I call opportunity cost. And so opportunity cost is, and I'll give you a case study to demonstrate what this means. There's this fellow by the name of Vin Jang, international keynote speaker. And in 2016, On top of the world, 100,000 people across the world, 80 stages, downtown LA apartment, brand names galore, keeping up with the Joneses. And internally his intuition kept saying, you are a wreck, my friend. 2016, he tells his wife, I gotta fix this because I hate who I am. Goes to New Zealand and no cell phone service. And then he does this exercise where he puts his values up on the wall. And he says, those pieces of paper were haunting. And I look at them saying, this is what my wife wants, this is what society wants, this is what my manager wants, this is what the people I talk to want. Where the hell is Vin? I'm missing from all these pieces of paper. So he takes them down and he puts up up these other pieces of paper that is what he wanted to do. And he says what he thought was going to be cathartic, what he thought was going to be freeing, was so scary because for the first time in his life he's given himself permission to be Vin.

Yeah.

And the story should have ended well there because he comes from New Zealand, hops back home and he falls back because he doesn't take action. He falls back to the same old crap. And 6 months later, his parents come up from Australia, and his mother pulls him aside. And there's this Vietnamese saying, he says, his mom says, is that when you hang around squid, you're going to get some ink on you.

Sure.

And she says, you're hanging around a lot of squid. This is not my boy. And intuitive light bulb hit. That moment hit. And from that day on, he got rid of the brand names. He sold his LA apartment, got rid of all his friends, and he felt so freeing. And this is where opportunity cost comes in because the next thing I said to Vin is that, well, Vin, it's not just the 6 months that you've lost. Not doing the right thing. It's also the 6 months of your life you lost by listening to your intuition. So my friend, you've actually lost a full year of your life. And if you're in the business of helping 100,000 people a year on the stages that you go on around the world, how many people did you leave behind in that year? How many people did you not help? And he said, Sunil, I've never ever thought about it like that. Yeah, yeah. That's what happens. That's how much time you lose. It's double the cost. Yeah. And you gotta take action. And it's fearful, as Vince saying, it's fearful. But remember that your intuition hits the amygdala. There's two types of fear in the amygdala. Either you're gonna be eaten by a saber-tooth tiger or you're not. And if you are gonna be eaten by a saber-tooth tiger, guess what? There's a negative intuitive signal there. And if it's not, there's a positive intuitive signal there. It's black or white. And it's up to you to listen to that. And there's 3 types of fear, fear of change, fear of the unknown, or fear of failure. And those are the 3 types that get you to stop going. And one of the guys I interviewed was a fellow by the name of David Dame. This guy has had cerebral palsy, been in his wheelchair all his life, and would go onto these beaches with his wife. And he used to always, what if? What if I could go and caress the sand with my feet? And a couple years ago he said, I'm gonna do it. And so he gets his wife and his handlers to wheel him up to that edge where the sand and the water come, stands him up, and he's feeling it, and he falls flat on his face. And the fear starts. What are people gonna think? Oh my God, like, I'm looking back at the embarrassment. I failed. And then he said, Sunil, I have two things I can do at that moment. One is I can sit right back in that chair and forever regret not turning my dream into a reality. I am right here. Or I can listen to that signal that was telling me, David, take a step in the water. You can do it. David, take another step. David, take another step. And he starts doing that. And he points to his chin and he says, the water gets about to my chin. 'And then I turned around.' And he was blown away by how far he came. That's how you live, listening to your intuitive signals, living in the present moment. You don't plan and think and you have these goals that you don't do anything about. You listen to your signals, you follow them, you take the steps that it tells you, and that's how you realize how to get to your goals.. And for him, it's not an extrinsic goal. It was just to walk in the water. But he now turned a dream into a reality. So when you take care of the inputs, the outputs take care of themselves. And it's just that simple. And we complicate this way too much. And to talk about purpose, and unfortunately as kids we don't get a chance to do that, but my two girls, luckily have the fact that they get annoyed about me talking about intuition at home. But my 14-year-old was— we went to India, and this is where this purpose is really in alignment with what you're talking about. She's been an artist, and for those who can't see the video, there's some paintings behind me, and they're painted by my daughter since she's been painting since she was 4. And she saw these artists, these beautiful postcards, amazing. And she found out that they were artists that had no arms. And she goes, oh my God, Dad, like, I got— look how these people are treated. This is so beautiful. I need to do something. I need to help them. And I said, Avni, which is her name, you know it's got to come from you, right? Which is my signal for intuition, right? And I said, when, when you're ready, and you'll know when it's ready, your intuition will know, let me know what you want to do. And I parked that idea. We all parked that idea. And 6 months later, we were playing board games in our living room. And she's staring at the TV, and it wasn't her turn anyways. And then she whips her head around and she goes, Dad, I'm ready. I have no clue what she's talking about because we're playing a board game, right? And are you ready? I mean, it's not your turn yet. Like, I gotta still roll my dice.

The place of least resistance to an idea coming in because you're being played you're being joyful and you're being, right? It's the place of all possibilities when you're not trying to force it to happen.

And she's supported by who? Her family, right? She's got that supportive foundation. We're allowing her to, you know, be in that space where she can think. And she whips her head around and said, and she says, remember what happened in India 6 months ago? I said, yeah, I'm ready. Okay, tell me. And But this is what she blurts out: I'm going to start a company. I'm going to paint. I'm going to sell my paintings. We're going to open up an event where people with disabilities and illnesses can come, and I'm going to have them paint to feel free just in that moment like I feel when I paint. And I said, are you sure? And she goes, yes. Very next day we opened up a Canadian nonprofit corporation. A month later we had our first fundraiser. She wanted $2,500. She raised over $5,000. All her originals were gone in the first hour of a 3-hour event. We even had someone from Scotland FaceTiming buying an original. Wow. 2 months later we had her first pop-up event. She had people from Big Brothers and Sisters come, couple people with Down syndrome, couple people in wheelchairs. But the moment of purpose at this pop-up event had hit her. There was this fellow with Parkinson's disease who had come, who had found out about the event, and he said, Avni, come here, let me tell you what this event is doing for me. And, uh, she comes and you can see, for those watching, his left hand is just shaking violently because of his cerebral palsy. The Parkinson's part of me me. He dips his paintbrush in the paint and he starts to paint and his arm stops.

Yeah.

And he says, this is what your event is doing for me. Purpose, boom. That one event cemented her purpose in life, why she was doing what she was doing. And a year and a half later, she's raised over $30,000 She's 14. That's what happens when you live with purpose. She's a kid and she's beating so many other entrepreneurs who are kind of doing things and all that stuff because she's living her purpose. And when you live your purpose and you speak that purpose, you attract the right people around you to become the foundation and they support what you do in life. And it doesn't have to be monetary. It just has to be your support. And when that happens, things in your life happen.

And people can be magnetized to that.

And I just had a conversation yesterday with a new coaching client.

And they were like, ah, well, I eventually want to leave my job. I do like my job, but I know there's more out there and I want to help female entrepreneurs in this minority community. I'm like, great. Well, what does that feel like when you're doing it? And she's like, oh my gosh, it's so much fun. I'm like, great. Well, when you did this last event, was it fun for you? Yeah, it's so much fun. I'm like, great. Well, 'Who else had fun there?' And she's like, 'Well, these 3 people came over, they said it was the best night.' 'Great. Uh, can you ask them to partner with you on the next event?' 'What do you mean?' I'm like, 'Well, you don't have to do it alone. You can have other people have fun with you, and now you have like-minded people with different strengths to balance out your weaknesses, and you can exponentially go further with that.' And, and I think that's the magnetization of purpose, right? Yeah, we talk about in the business world your stakeholders.

Yep.

And those are really not just people who are investing in the company or the stock, but it's people who believe in your mission and your brand. Yeah, based on that. But you have to get clear on what your mission and brand is. And even last week in my accountability group, you know, I'm an integrative mind-body therapy and coaching practice, and I added a few words into that last week after my last accountability group. Group. We, on our quarterly, uh, we do every week for an hour, but we have our quarterly meeting for 4 hours, and it was last week. And I said, for elite, for motivated and elite performing individuals and businesses. I just added those words to it, for motivated and elite performing individuals. And that's going to be a whole nother clarification of like, oh, I don't know if I'm so motivated to show up for therapy, then I'm not the right therapist for you, and you're definitely not the right client for me. Yeah, I don't— I want to be the best in my business world. Great, then you're the perfect client for me. I want to be the best dad. I want to be the best wife. I want to be the best husband. I want to be the best human that I can be. I want to be the best version of myself. Oh, okay, so you're motivated. Cool, I'll work with you. Yeah, right. So it's, in a way, even when we're doing our branding and our marketing, the way that we put that out there, even in our, you know, in our mission statement or or catalyzing statement has to be in alignment with that because it is a red carpet. It is making people make a binary decision along with our values. Because I have my business's core values and my personal core values. And I— people who've heard me on this podcast, but any of my workshops I'm doing, they're like, hey, I know core values, core values. I'm like, well, did you look at it when you made that decision? No. Well, then does this person you're dating align with those values? No. I'm like, okay, so what do you get? Well, I don't want to hurt them. So you're willing, right? And that's the whole other thing, right? Well, so, and I said this the other night to someone who was a close friend of mine who I deeply care about. I'm like, so you care more about their feelings than you do about your own wellbeing. Tell me how that's healthy for you. And if you continue in this relationship, at what point will you then realize that this is not a healthy relationship? If you're still always more concerned about you hurting them for the reason why you want to break up with them versus stay staying with them because you don't want to hurt them.

Right, right.

And when people really like— the first step is like the aha, but it is that fear of like— but it's muscle memory, right? We're talking about emotional muscle memory in that regards. And that's why I love the core values. And I, and I just will wrap up with the story that I had a young couple, really adorable, they were 22, 23 years old, and they, there was some stuff in their relationship. And instead of solving the conflict, I sent them home my core values worksheet. So anybody who's listening to this episode, if you want to do this exercise, just send me a DM on Instagram or Facebook. Um, you guys know where it's at, the end of the show. You'll hear it in the, in the outro. Um, and I said, go home and do this worksheet. I want each of you to do your own personal core values with your definitions of what those are, your 6 to 8 core value words. And I want you guys to then sit together and define together, what are the core values of this relationship? With your definitions about that, not your Webster's Dictionary definition, but your, your definition. That was between session 1 and session 2. So they came back on session 2, we talked about the core values, and they're like, oh my God, we see where we screwed up. I didn't have to talk about the major conflict point that needed to be solved. That would have taken, I don't know, weeks and months to even just get to a place of feeling like we see where we screwed up. And we're working from the place of where that originally— that allowed that issue to happen. So we're not going to focus on the issue, we're going to allow on the experiences and the beliefs and the assumptions, the expectations and the actions that allowed that to happen. And that got cleaned up just by getting clear on Korvac. Values.

Yeah, that's an amazing story. And it's no different in business. Right. And I talk about intuitive branding, which is what I do. And I start with the leader and what are his or her core values because that's going to attract the employees that resonate with that and repel the ones that shouldn't. And then, when you allow the intuition of the employees because you're allowing them to be creative and you turn that on, they attract the customers to you. And when they, those, and then you've got the employees and the customers coming together, they tell the marketplace. And that's how you crush your competition. And when it comes back to the original science, it's about trust. And that trust is under 14 seconds. So for you to crush your competition, it takes under 14 seconds. And that's intuitive branding. That's what I do for companies.

So y'all listening to this out there, there's so much more that you can gather from Sunil. So I'm going to give you his two websites that you can track him down on. One is Intuology— Intuitionology, excuse me, intuitionology.com is the first one. And on that one, he has a 7-day challenge that he referred to. There's links to his podcast, blogs, and and all this other cool stuff. And then if you want more about his intuitive branding coaching, his books, and other stuff that he can do from the marketing perspective, you can go to sunilgodse.com. And Sunil, there's— I have a feeling that you and I will be, we'll be talking again. I know there's other layers for us to tap into.

Absolutely.

You know, and maybe even what we can do is like maybe bring like a guest on and walk them through.

Sure.

Like break it right in, and maybe even tag team on that from your, your perspective and my sector because there's 99% overlap in what you and I are doing. Yeah, right. And, and how cool would that be? Yeah, that would be awesome to coach someone through this from a double-layered perspective and like write the, the blind spot points that they don't see that they're doing and, and work that there. So, um, so those of you who might be interested out there, right, number one, like go check out his podcast and, and leave him a positive review on his podcast because that always, you know, as you always hear me say, that helps us get found by more people that are like-minded. And that's what this is all about is doing like-minded things with like-minded people that have like-minded values, that have like-minded mission statements, and how we can support each other through that. And one of the many reasons why I started this podcast is, is to do that, is to get people like Sunil in front of you when you may have never had the opportunity to either hear about him, or especially about this topic of, of really what intuition is, a real thing. So Sunil, thank you so much for spending time with us today.

No problem. Thank you very much for inviting me.

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