Ep. 12- Rocky Garza: Finding Your True North

This is the You Winning Life podcast, your number one source for mastering a positive existence. Each episode, we'll be interviewing exceptional people, giving you empowering insights and guiding you to extraordinary outcomes. Learn from specialists in the worlds of integrative and natural wellness, spirituality, psychology, and entrepreneurship so you too can be winning life. Now here's your host, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified neuro-emotional technique practitioner, trainer and certified entrepreneur coach, Jason Wasser.

I'd like to welcome everybody back to the You Winning Life podcast. Today I have with me speaker, disruptor, and people expert, Rocky Garza. Rocky, thanks for hanging out with us today.

Absolutely, dude. Absolutely. Thank you. It is an absolute honor. It was great to meet you a couple weeks ago. And yeah, when I got the— we connected and got the email and you asked me, I thought, well, there's at least— there's at least there's one guy who was at that event who I know is going to at least appreciate a little bit of what I want to say and who I am. So I am stoked to be here.

Well, I really appreciate that. And again, one of the reasons why I wanted to make this happen so quickly is because we know that relationships, if they're not fed, are going to eventually, right, disappear and burn away. So one of the things that I want to share with this podcast is how do people jump on action? How do people make things happen in their life where they make new connections with people where they can then have influence with other aspects of their life and people's lives? So this is what I'm hoping is the goal of you winning life, right? It's not just what you can do for yourself, but what you can bring to your purpose and your passion and your mission to the world. So before we get into all the amazing, really cool stuff that you're doing, um, can you share with our listeners a little bit about you, your background, where are you coming from? All that good stuff.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I'm, uh, I'm gonna go way back just cause I think if we don't go all the way back, then the story is kind of left untold. Right. So, um, so I was born in Kansas, But I only lived in Kansas for like a week, so I don't really claim Kansas. Came back to the Dallas-Fort Worth area, North Dallas area is where my grandparents live, my mom's parents. And so moved back there. My parents got divorced when I was 2, and my dad, they got remarried when I was 7. He's still married, has 2 sons, so I have 2 half-brothers and love all of them. My mom's been married and divorced a few times, and so we moved a bunch early on. So like pre-kindergarten to 7th grade, I moved a ton. So I was like in a further, further North Dallas area Dallas pre-kindergarten, kind of moved 20 miles away from there to start kindergarten. Halfway through kindergarten, moved back to my grandparents' house and finished kindergarten. I moved to San Antonio, which is about 4 hours away, for first and second grade. Moved about 30 miles the other direction for third grade. For half of third grade, I moved back 4 hours to my grandparents' house to finish third grade. And then Carrollton for fourth, Farmers Branch for fifth, Frisco for sixth, and then back to my grandparents' house in seventh grade. So a lot of jumping around. Oh man, I'm telling you, I was everywhere. Like in, in that, that time frame, in those spaces, um, you know, like there was a lot of change. There was a lot of— I was, I was living here, I was with my mom or husband or a different husband. And, and so yeah, I think from 7th grade I moved in with my grandparents. My mom lived like 4 streets down that whole time, um, from 7th grade through 11th or 12th grade. And, uh, but I, but I live at my grandparents' house. And so, um, yeah, you know, I think as I look back in my life, like I, I say like I was a silver platter kid Meaning that on the surface, I had everything that I needed, mostly everything that I wanted. You live with grandparents who get to be parents again, but this time with time and resources. It's like best case scenario for you as a kid. But I think underneath that was I learned very, very early on that my way to survive was if I could out-talk you, out-think you, outwit you, out-charisma you, out-disclose you. We'll get to vulnerability later, I'm sure, but I wasn't vulnerable, but I disclosed a lot. I learned that If I could give you all of my life in a 45-second chunk, especially that seemed like really crazy details, you would assume I would be really open and vulnerable and told everything about me. But what actually did is it created a barrier that allowed me to be safe. And so that was kind of my survival or MO from, you know, I say birth because that's when I started, but you know, birth until I was probably 20 was my ability to keep an arm's distance between us while you believing that we could not be even closer than we possibly were. I think it's important for even folks, for listeners, like I think it's important for us to go back to that timeframe, that 6 to 12 age range. You know, I'm a pretty firm believer of whatever happens in that timeframe that we do to survive, and I don't mean life or death unless that's your story, but like whatever we do to survive in that timeframe is a pretty accurate description of how we operate as an adult, right? So that's why like all middle children are the same or firstborns are the same. So we have those kind of phrases or stereotypes just because Your life in that time frame was all very similar, so we all react the same way because that's how we learned to survive. And so again, for me, it was that outwit, outthink, outcharisma, bat my eye. I remember one story my grandma tells all the time. She thinks it's really funny. Um, we would go to the Sonic— well, she would go to the Sonic like every day to get a Diet Coke. And, uh, when I was like 5-ish, um, we pulled up the Sonic and the lady came out and like brought my grandma Diet Coke. And I like unbuckled and like leaned over my grandma's lap and like got really— I stuck my head out the window and looked at the lady and just did this. And my grandma, the lady was like, "What is he doing?" And my grandma was like, "Oh, he's just showing you how long his eyelashes are because everybody comments on them, so he just probably figured you wanted to see them." And so like, I feel like if there's not a better way to like encapsulate who I was as a child, probably who I am at 36, but who I was as a child, like, is that. And so, but I learned I could survive that way, right? Like I could maintain that way. And so fast forward, I graduated high school, again, I had, captain of this and president of this and yada yada yada. I ended up going to junior college for a couple years. Out of college, I moved to Chicago about a month before I graduated from high school, and so I moved back in with my grandparents, and then I would just— my grandparents actually moved that summer, so I moved with them and lived with them. And junior college, same song, different verse, right? Like a different stage, a different group, but same old, same old Rocky. And so I transferred to a 4-year institution at Texas A&M whenever I— after my first 2 years of junior college. So my junior year I transferred to A&M. I transferred there on a full-ride scholarship. I'm not academic, I barely graduated college, so how I ended up with a scholarship, not sure. Probably just talked myself into it. And so, probably schmoozed my way into it, that's probably a better word, probably not talked my way into it.

I can completely agree and relate to that story. I graduated high school with a 1.8 GPA. So the fact that I have a master's degree and a license and a private practice and a coaching practice, Right? It's kind of the story that we always carry about ourselves.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I ended up transferring there on a full ride. After my first semester, I get a call, second semester about to start, um, hey Mr. Gorge, your tuition's due. And I said, like, what do you mean? I want a scholarship. And they're like, well, you were on a scholarship, but you didn't make grades. And so, like, I made A's and B's, but people don't give you money to go to school when you make A's and B's. And I'm sure somebody told me that, but I like to pretend that nobody told me that. And so Thankfully, I was kind of taken care of after that point. But really for me, I say it's moment number one, it's probably moment number 500 in my life, right? But I say number one for this story. That for the first time in my life, I feel like I was able to like look in at my life and see like, if this is what life looks like when you live in the middle of your own world, like this is not the way that I want to live my life, right? Like this is not what I want to do. And so, yeah, I really kind of had like a peel back, kind of pulled away from a lot of things and And for me, like my first like spiritual experience, the ability to kind of look at life and go, there has to be something more to this than just me pleasing me, doing me. And then, you know, this language didn't exist in 2002. Um, you know, there was no like hustle grind, be yourself. That's not what, that's what the world was. And so, but, but I knew there had to be something other than just like Rocky, make Rocky happy. Cause that's, this is where it's gotten me and it's miserable. And so, um, yeah, I ended up having some really good friends like, hey, you're an asshole. And like, You gotta stop doing what you're doing. You know, this is terrible. I don't wanna be your friend anymore. And so I ended up going to this place called Sky Ranch. It's a camp out in East Texas, so about an hour and a half outside of Dallas. And it's a Christian summer camp for kids. And so I ended up going out there as a counselor in the summer of 2004 and really like for the first time in my life, I think, experienced what it was like to have people appreciate and value me, but they never mentioned my performance. Like they talked about me and they talked about being around me and that I was funny or that people, I was engaging and people like, they were using words that like people had used after they talked about how well I did something, then they would be like, oh yeah, you're so engaging 'cause you did these things, not like as a human being, here's what your value is. And I'd never experienced that in my life.

So they were finding value just by you showing up.

Exactly. They said, you being here is A, valuable to us and B, more importantly, you are valuable because you are here. And I think like, that's just not language that I had allowed people to speak that I would. Had my mom told me she loved me? Yes. My dad? Yes. My grandparents? Yes. My family? Yes. My aunt and my uncle, my 3 cousins who I lived with every summer for 8 years? Yeah. Like, it's like, I literally just texted that uncle today. Today's his birthday. And I told him, I sent him a text. I was like, hey, thank you. Thank you for being safe and for being committed. And thank you for showing me what it's like to love you. Like, I'd never, I so appreciate that.. And yet like I was so involved in the idea that it seemed like the greatest praise affirmation and reward came when I was doing and achieving and not when I was being. And I just had never experienced that or even, I don't even know if I had the language then to, even if I did experience it, I didn't have the language to know what that was. And so, um, yeah, so that was the summer of '04. Um, fast forward, I went back to A&M. Finished school, took like 21 hours my last semester because I was like, I got to get out of here, I'm tired, I don't want this. And I'd been offered a full-time job to go back to Sky Ranch and work there full-time out of college. And so I was like, duh, 100 hours a week every week for $20,000, I'm in. And so living the dream. Oh yeah, I'm like, who says that? Like, internships get paid more than that, you know. It's my full-time job for 4 years. I didn't go to Sky Ranch, I worked there full-time for about 4 years. I loved it. It was One of the best experiences of my life. Met a girl, started dating, we dated for a few years. Fast forward 2 or 3 years, got engaged. She was in Arkansas, I was in East Texas. We came to Dallas, had our engagement photos taken. She flew back home. She called me one day, said, "I have something to tell you." I said, "Great." And she said, "My mom told me that if I didn't tell you that I was sleeping with somebody else, then she wasn't gonna put a deposit down on our venue." And so, man, it really struck me. And so I was like, "Okay, but now that you're telling me, then she'll put a deposit down?" And she was like, "Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah." And I was like, "Okay, well, you tell your mom I said thank you." and don't ever call me again. And so again, we say, I say this moment number 2, right? Like moment number 1 was the realization, and we're gonna get to this phrase here in a little while, but moment number 1 was a realization that I had been trying to prove why I was so valuable. I think moment number 2 for me was the next 5 or 6 years, I was trying to prove why you were more valuable and how I could serve you. Because if you weren't gonna love me for performing, then you would love me for sacrificing, right? Like I kind of like pendulum swung the other way. So come to find out, well, that's not true either. That's a terrible idea. Fast forward a few months, I end up coming back to Dallas. So this is 2008 at this point. Come back to Dallas, I was on pastoral staff at a church up here in North Dallas and did that for about 3.5 years. That's when I met my wife, who was an architect here in Dallas. We had actually met each other at Sky Ranch, but I was engaged to someone, so I wasn't paying attention to who she was. As she tells the story, she's like, "He was on stage doing staff training. He was so funny, and I wanted to marry somebody just like him." My wife does also talk like that. I don't know why I'm doing my neck like this, but just pretend she does. It makes me feel better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She is quite— she is actually very Southern. She's from West Texas. She has a great accent. And so yeah, we dated, started dating, got married in July of 2009. So actually just celebrated 10 years of marriage this year. And thanks again. So she ended up quitting her job. We got married in July. She quit her job Thanksgiving of that same year. Just, she was— and she's an interior designer, but she was doing architecture at the time and just didn't really like what she was doing. And so we'd been dabbling in photography and she was like, hey man, I just want to really, I want to try it and see if I can do it full time. And so we moved to a tiny apartment. I sold my car and I drove a scooter and, um, or walked to work sometimes so that we could live off one salary and pursue photography. And so really for us, that was Thanksgiving '09 and that was kind of like our first jump into entrepreneurship. We didn't know at all what we were doing. That was kind of our first leap. It's, it was really weird. It's almost 10 years ago. Um, and, uh, so I stayed at the church for about another year. Um, about a year later I got offered what I thought was my dream job at the church and that was to be a teaching pastor. So I was going to be on stage in front of 5,000 people and teach every weekend and thought that's what I wanted to do. Thankfully, like, I had a— I didn't have much, I can tell you this, but I had just enough self-awareness to know that I was way more interested in you shaking my hand afterward than I was telling you about God. And not that I didn't want to do that, but I didn't want to do that unless you were going to shake my hand and tell me how great it was, right? And so, um, so anyway, I said no to the job. I can't do it. It's gonna be bad for you and bad for me, and like, it's just not gonna work. And so they said, well, then what do you want to do? I said, "I think I'm gonna be a wedding photographer." And that was more like, that's what we had been dabbling on the side. And so we said, "Let's see what happens." And so I ended up quitting my job January 2011. So my wife and I have both been self-employed since January of '11. And then we shot weddings full-time for about 5 and a half years. It was awesome, traveled the world, people paid for it. We spent 24 hours a day, 7 days a week together for 5 years. It was awesome. We realized in that 5 years, like we both had to go to counseling. We both spent a significant amount of time in counseling. I think we bought our first house, we found community, we put down roots. Like we were really for the first time for the first time, I think we're looking at ourselves through a lens of not what we can achieve and not what can we do to make sure everybody else is satisfied, but looking at ourselves through a lens of going, okay, where does it fit to find a space of opportunity and go a step further? Where does it exist to find a space of freedom? Go a step further. Like, where does it exist to find a place where you can be both satisfied, sustainable, and growing at the same time? And so again, we didn't have that language then, but I think that was, That was the thing we were longing and looking for.

So anyway, there's something specific in that time that was the impetus for that to really be smacking you across the face, or do you think it was more of the natural evolution of the journey that both of you were taking, both spiritually and psychologically?

Yeah, it's a great question. I would say I think it was, you marry someone, you don't have a direct deposit, you don't know what you're doing, and you're trying to figure it out. Both good and evil will come out of your mouth. And I think that in that space, really, really, really, I can tell you the moment that we were both like, damn, something's not right, was we were, this was probably like early 2012. So we had both been together full-time entrepreneurs by the year. And I was getting up, my wife was like, hey, I'm gonna run to Walgreens and grab something. I was like, great, see ya. She was like, no, let's go. And I was like, no, no, I'm not going. And then she like didn't miss a beat. She was like, no, like I can't go to Walgreens without you. And I was like, whoa, sir, excuse me, you can't go to Walgreens. I don't know if that, I don't understand what you're saying, you know? While also feeling like, okay, I'll go. Like, if you need me to go, I'll go with you if you need me to go, you know? And we were both like, this is, that was the weirdest thing we've ever occurred, has ever happened. Like, we were never volatile. We were never, we've never yelled or fought. Like, that was never like the disconnect in our relationship. It was the fact that we were both trying to buffer each other so much that we became so codependent on my ability to rescue and help and do and serve. And her ability to need me and to let me do things for her. And it was weird. And so really, I think that was really the singular moment where we're both like, "Okay, something's kind of off." And then really like from that unpacking, what are those things? And why do I fear being left? Why do I fear like you? Why do I think you're going to leave me like everybody else? And she's like, "But I want you to help me." And I, you know, all those things. You know that language way better than I do. But I think that's the place where we kind of unpack some of that stuff and then realize like, "Okay, maybe." And it was really like, "I'm fine. I bet you should go to counseling." Right. And so she did, she went to counseling about a year, and then about a year in, she would come home every Thursday, and some days she'd be happy, and some days she would just cry for 4 hours. And I was like, hey, I don't know what to do here, I don't know how to help you. And so she was like, well, my counselor thinks you should come with me one time. So I was like, great, I'd love to go support you, whatever. So we get in there and start talking, and the counselor's like, yeah, so tell me about this. I was like, well, you know, my dad and my mom. And it was like, well, and she was like, maybe you should go to counseling. I was like, and maybe you're right. And so yeah, we both spent, you know, 2 or 3 years together, you know, in counseling independently. And so yeah, that's a full circle. That's a great question. And I think for us in that time period, as we look back, no, it was definitely not like, oh, we should really figure these things out. It was, uh, the shit's falling apart and we have to figure if we're going to build something sustainable and that we love, we got to figure out what that is.

So it's interesting that you're talking about that, you showing up to help her. So the way I identify the people in my practice, especially when I'm working with my couples and families, is that there are 3 people that will show up even to your events or to my practice as a therapist, is that there's the complainant, the consumer, and the visitor. The complainant is fix them. The visitor is I'm only here because they want me to be here. And the consumer is I'm all in, let's do it. So for you to say like, oh, I'm really here just to help you when you finally have that awareness of, okay, maybe I need this for myself. That's the hope and dream of every therapist that's out there is like the person's gonna show up and realize that it's not about blaming, right? Because that's the continued pattern, right, that we're all looking for, that we're all trying to unpackage, we're all trying to figure out that does play out in our relationships. And you had that, you had that sense of personal awareness that you and I, I know, are trying to share with the world, right? And it's so tough because we see people walking around and it's just like they're like an inch away of figuring that out, but they're stubborn and they're stuck.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think, um, and you know, I'd love your thoughts on, like, I think one thing that I feel like I have realized, especially in the last 4 or 5 years, but even then thinking about that period of time and using myself as the example, or even my wife as an example, I better use me cause she's not here to defend herself. So using myself as an example, um, you know, I, I think that is something that I was looking for and longing for always. Um, I don't think that, For me, I don't— I think it took, it took realizing, um, the damage I was doing to somebody else over an extended period of time for me to kind of be awoken to the power that I actually had. And I don't say that because I'm powerful. I think 100% all of us have it.

Yeah.

But I think what happens is I spent the first 21 or 22 years of my life leveraging that power for my own benefit and gain. Because it made me feel good. Right. And no matter how bad it felt on Saturday morning to drive her home, Friday night always seemed to be worth it because the thing I was longing for seemed to be fulfilled for a very short amount of time. But I never had to deal— thankfully I never had to deal with the long-term, uh, result, um, of what I was doing to other people because they were probably looking for the same thing. And so we mutually agreed on Friday night, we'll do this thing together. And then we'll both feel good and then tomorrow we'll probably both feel awkward. But since we felt good, we'll just pretend it didn't happen and we'll move on. Right. So like being married, um, being in a relationship, being in a partnership, sometimes with family, sometimes, I mean, a friend, I mean, it can happen everywhere. I was, I think I all of a sudden saw like the longer term effect it was having on my inability to reconcile my own self. And what that was doing to somebody else. And I think so the people I think you're referring to, they're like so close, they're right there. They're, um, I think they either intentionally or unintentionally like build a life where they don't have to be responsible for the long-term effect of what's happening or flip it. Probably it's either the same or no one has yet taken responsibility for the long-term effect that has been played out on them. And so we sit in this awkward place of going, Well, I don't want to own up to my part and get help. Flip that. They're never going to own up to their part and therefore I can only be victim. I can't come out and say I don't want to be in that space anymore because both parties feel trapped. Both parties feel stuck. Right.

Well, I have this belief that you can't be a victim and be empowered on a specific topic at the same time. And it sounds to me like a lot of people out there are waiting for permission to do the work, right? They're waiting to be asked, right? Like you were asked to join your wife, but yet you were already on this own, this journey, but there was something extra that came out of being asked. And I wonder how many people that those of us that are, those of you that are listening out there that you have permission to just do it and not wait for someone to ask you to do the work.

Yeah. I mean, that's, I think that's one of the things whenever I, you know, we'll talk about here in a minute. It's one of the, when I take folks over to do a workshop. And so whether it's for a company or for, it's an external conference or leadership development or young professionals or whatever it is, you know, we're going through and everybody's answered questions. They did their values and they came out with fears and lies and beliefs and truth. And so come back and I have a lot of people come to me and go like, I wrote this down, but like, like I found a lie. Like I just don't know what the truth is. Right. And I go, okay. So we land on that. Okay, here's the truth. Oh yeah, that is right. You know, I'm valuable or I'm worthy. And so, and then I always go back, go ahead, just have a question for you. Like whether it's a literal person or it's an event or it's, or it's made up. I don't know what the situation is for you, but like who lied to you? Who lied to you and told you that you couldn't be this, have this, do this, that you weren't this, you weren't that, right? Like, and it's, it's really interesting because almost immediately, almost most people, whether it's a person, an event, or a thing, go, Well, when I was 16, yeah, I mean, almost, almost 100% of the time. And some people go, or I was 32, or I was 11, right? Like the age, I think sometimes the age is irrelevant a lot of times, but people can go to a place and go, from that moment I started to believe this, right? And so, um, yeah, like there's, there's, uh, you know, there's, there's, this is, this is my opinion. Like I think I've seen in individuals that there's, there's two narratives at play in our life all the time, right? Like that One narrative is the stories that have been told to us about us. So that's the, that's the things that get passed down that people have always said about us. Rocky, you're so intense. You're too sensitive. You cry a lot. You write like the things that have been told about me. And then the other narrative is the things we tell ourselves about ourselves, right? The things I say to me about me. And, um, wherever I think I have found, as I've dealt with myself and people, like wherever there is an intersection of those two things, right? Like wherever what I've been told about me meets what I tell myself, then we have lowercase t truth. Now that doesn't mean it's real or right. It could be totally false, but we believe it to be true.

And we make it the capital T truth.

Right. And so now that thing then rules or dictates whatever it is that we're doing. And so I think it was like really linear, right? Like a narrative, narrative, they crossed, truth, fix this. I can't change what people say to me about me. So I'm going to believe, I'm going to change what I say to myself about myself. New narrative, freedom. I think I have found in the last few months, uh, that is, I've been wrong. It is not, it is not a singular touchpoint. Fix, healed, it looks more like this, like more like DNA, right? So there's 9 touchpoints. And so I fix one and then I'm like, I'm feeling so good about my— I'm feeling so good, right? Like, and then it's kind of this like perpetual journey until we get to a place where we are either healthy enough, mature enough, old enough that these stories no longer have the power to rule. And I think that's one thing that Sarah and I found out. We were feeding it. We were telling the other person what we thought the other person wanted to hear while feeling the opposite. And so we kept having these intersections that we didn't even know were occurring, that from the outside looked like we loved each other so much. And we did, but we were killing each other because we weren't ever actually saying what we really wanted to say because we wanted the other person to be happy. Right? And so—

Patterns that are building, right? Like you said, layer upon layer upon layer. So for me, it's like, I don't really, I playfully tell my clients, I don't really care about what the problem is. I care about what your belief about the problem is. And that theme will show up in multiple parts of your life. So when you're going back a few minutes ago and you're saying like, well, what's the story that I've adopted that other people have told me about me that I'm now playing out? In a way, I'll look at it from who are you honoring by keeping on playing out that, right? Are you honoring mom? Are you honoring dad? Are you honoring a spiritual belief, a cultural belief, whatever it may be? But in a way, by honoring that, you're dishonoring yourself.

I love that. I love that language.

So when you're talking about unpackaging that pattern, right, the multiple layers of here's all the different places happen, I look at it, I'll say, okay, great, let's put that up on the wall, right? Let's put all those little things. What's the common denominator between all of those things? What's the theme that they all have in common? And I think that's right. That's the central component because we're going to keep, right, we always solve a problem from a place that we're really stuck. So never solve the problem from there, right? So I think The idea of if we can pick out the theme, and I know that's part of what you're doing through the work that you're sharing with the people that are collaborating with you, is that if we can find the theme behind the meanings and we can then really pick apart that, then the patterns will change because the belief, the action steps are based on the beliefs.

Yeah, yeah, 100%. 100%.

So that's the freedom that you're talking about.

Right, right. Right, yeah, exactly, exactly. So, yeah, so that was kind of that 2 or 3 period of our life. Fast forward a couple years, we found out we were pregnant with our son early 2015, so February of '15, and we were both like, do we really wanna shoot 40 weddings a year every year for the rest of our life and have a kid and then be gone every Saturday? And we're like, probably not. And so, really my wife just said, hey, if you could do anything, what would you wanna do? You know, if you could, If you could identify something that you love and you value. And so I definitely didn't say this eloquently then, right? I'm 4 and a half years in, so it sounds much better now. But then I said something along the lines of like, if I could take my life experience, hence me giving you 22 minutes of life story, if I could take my life experience and marry that with 8 years of ministry, and I described that as my desire to love and care and serve people, and 8 years of entrepreneurship, if I could put all those things together, if I could be an expert in anything, I'd want to be a people expert, right? Individuals, understand who they are, what that means, why that matters, unpack that to find clarity and freedom and opportunity. I want to do that. I don't know what the hell that is or what it means, but I want to try to do that. So, um, yeah, so we said great. And so we deleted our photography website that day and said, okay, we're no longer— we'll shoot all the rest of the weddings that we have booked. We had like 15 or 20 weddings left. We'll shoot those, but we're no longer wedding photographers booking anymore. And, um, I started this business and that was in February of 2015. And so Um, yeah, since then, uh, really it's been like a kind of a long, a long, a long, a long short journey of figuring out what it is and what to do. And so I started the creative entrepreneur world because that was the world that came out of. And so it was easy to go to them and say, hey, did you see our business and our brand? Did you like that? Do you want one like that? Great, let me help you. And so, um, you know, photographers, filmmakers, designers, that was kind of the first space where I engaged in. And, um, really from, um, I would take folks on 2-day retreats. So you're an entrepreneur, you would hire me, I would take you on a retreat for 2 days, me and you, one-on-one. The first day we would do what we now call identity mapping. It didn't have a name then, but we would do identity mapping for the day 1, and day 2 would be taking identity mapping and then leveraging all of that data and information as the basis for your brand, your business, the problem you're solving, and so on. And then you would commit to 6 months of coaching. So I did that for about 18 months, maybe, maybe about 18 months, maybe 2 years, and loved it. It was awesome. I realized in that phase I am not a coach. That's my wheelhouse. I'm not a follow-through commitment, where are you, how's things going? I am a come in, blow your shit up, put some pieces back together and say good luck out there. That's my sweet spot. And so it's not that I don't love you, I just like to love you today and tomorrow you gotta find, you know. So what does that look like to realize that?

Because that's great, as you know, and this is something that I've talked about and Evan Stewart's been on a previous episode and Coach Michael Burt's been on a previous episode, right? And Coach has a background in coaching, Evan, is doing some amazing stuff and he's a good buddy of ours.

Right.

And Coach Bert talks about demonstrating in a specific capacity your expertise in an area. So you just really hit it on the head of this is really what I'm amazing at. This is what I'm really good at. I'm really good at coming in and blowing up your shit. Yep.

Yep.

What was that aha and that freedom like to realize that this is what I absolutely don't want to do?

Yeah. Yeah. I think as, as so there was a period of time where I probably had 15 to 20 entrepreneurs rolling at the same time, right? So I had 3 or 4 retreats a month, um, and then they would add on. So, you know, you do 4 and 4 and 4, so you have 12, but you're only 3 months in. So now 12 coaching clients and you do 4 and 4, and so then you're at 20. So you've done 20, but your first guy still has 2 more months left. And so I think in that part, um, and so we would come in, we would do it, we would dive in, we would unpack. And it was like you know, hey, here's our list from last time, where are you? And they're like, oh, I did number 1 and number 6, but the other, the other 8 I didn't do. And so I'm like, okay, well, so today, do you want to talk about those 8 again? Or do we want to add 2 more? Like what, I don't, how do you want to, what do we want to do? And so I think one, realizing that that's very frustrating to me. Two, I think realizing that, so in my, I'm a big fan of Gallup StrengthsFinders. I'm not a fan of a lot of assessments out there. One, 'cause I created my own, so partially, but Gallup is really the only, one of the only assessments I'm super fond of because it's so specific of what it's telling you. It's not talking about your personality, it's just talking about strengths. But for me, empathy is number 34 on the list. There's only 34 options. Empathy's number 34. I just don't, I don't have empathy. I don't feel how you feel. I can sympathize, and if you cry, I'm a sympathetic crier, but I'm not empathetic. And I think part, there's a part of being a coach that you have to, I think you need a little bit of empathy, And I think like Coach Burt and I think Evan, I think they would probably define their empathy in different ways, but I think that's the root of their care for people and the consistency of follow-up is a little bit of that. And I just don't have that. I'm not motivated by that, I'm not driven by that. And so I think as I realized, man, I'm a coach but I don't really like coaching and what do I like then? So I think I went through a period of going, I was this, I know I don't want to be this. What then do I want to be? Right? And so I think as I've kind of, I went through that, what I did is I guess there's not a right or wrong, but I would say I went the reverse. I just then chose a title and then said, okay, I'm going to do everything I need to do to like fulfill that title. And so I chose the title of People Expert. One, because in the business world I wanted people to be like, people expert, what's that? I'm like, well, I'm glad you asked. You know? But I think a part of it too was that's because that's what I care about. Like I care about, I want to help you see and understand you. And so I think then, what does that mean? And what do I love? And what do I value? That's the number one question I ask people when we're unpacking things. I say, okay, scrap everything. What do you love? And they're like, what do you mean? I'm like, no, no, not your dog. What do you love? Like, what do you— and so for me, I love, I do love people, but I love experiences. I love creating an environment to physically watch someone go from this to like, And then that feeling, you know, this is probably better than I do, but that when you see someone there, they're lit and they do this, right? Like, there was, we just hit the breath. You know, like I want to be in those spaces. And I think, um, you and I are similar age. Uh, I think we are really unique in the fact that we lit, we've lived exactly half of our life. Fully inundated with technology. We've lived half of our life, not even, there was no technology, internet didn't exist, right? But we were, because we were the group that was in on it, that we love it and know we need it, but we love this as much as, if not more than we love anything else. And so I'm in that. Sometimes I joke around, I get paid to make people have a face-to-face conversation, which we don't do as often. And we can go through the thing, you know, Gary Vee would be like, Internet didn't make us this, you know, internet's not doing anything more than what they thought TV and video games would do, and we're all fine. And there's a part, that part of that's like, I get it, I get it, it's true. But what happens is, is I think because of that, we don't talk about the things like this that we used to talk about. It's not that, it's not that, you know, whether it's millennials or zennials or then, you know, younger than millennials, I'm not sure what they're, who they are, who they are, but you know, Generation Z or like, it's not that they're disconnected and it's not that they don't know how to talk. It's that because they're so connected, when we're together, we're not talking about the things that I think we should be talking about. At least not—

Do you find that it's location consistent? In other words, there are places that I've been where the conversations and the awareness has gotten a lot deeper than it would be in certain other locations. So like, for example, I live in South Florida, and when I'm traveling, let's say to Boulder, Colorado, or some other places, there's much more of a buy-in to this frequency. As I joke, I have a buddy of mine, one of my best friends lives in Boulder. And when I first went out there, I'm like, I don't get it. Like, people in general ask, like, how are you?

Right?

And you give them the standard, like, I'm good, life's good, right? Whatever it is. And that's that dismissive, like, we just move on with my day. And I realized that there were like people that I was meeting out there and they're like, so what are you working on? And it wasn't mean like, what's your hobby? It's like, right, you know, inside of you. I'm like, I dig that. I dig that a lot. So I started bringing that back here because that's right. I always try to create bolder in my, in my, in my emotional space of where I am. And I— people aren't okay with that. Like they get bugged out by those type of things. So I'm trying to really— yeah, right.

Yeah, yeah. And I think, yeah, I definitely would say there are parts of in the country that are much more open. And I think you call it the cultural shifts. And I think you see this with heart issues, like your emotions, not your cardiovascular health. I think you see it with your heart issues and emotions. I think you see it with even in the corporate world. There's a couple of businesses that I work with and have offices all over the US. And I'm even asked by them, and I don't ever comply because why would I? But I'm even asked like, hey, when you go to the Orange County office, like, hey, you do you. Literally, there's no rules. If you're gonna go to the Boston office though, like you have to have on slacks. And I'm like, wait a second, like that is a dump, no. Hey, I don't own slacks, so sorry. Dark jeans is about as close as I'm gonna get to the slack, and I only tuck in half my shirt 'cause the back I don't really like. You know, like—

So I want you to bring everything that you bring to the table, but we wanna change you that you're bringing to the table that we hired you for in the first place.

Right, right, and I think, you know, if I try to give them benefit of the doubt, I think what they're saying is like, we know that there's a, and we use We'll use a gift as an example. Not that I'm a gift, but go with me. What's inside is what's important. We know what's inside that box. Everyone's gonna love. When you go to California, they're already gonna love it just 'cause you came. When you go to Boston, we need the box to look right so they can accept the box, so they're willing to open the box, so then when it comes out, they'll be, right? And I get that, there's a part of, but I think with that, what happens then is then we live into we continue to create and perpetuate standard requirements to get to a place that we all just really want to be at anyway.

Right.

And so I want to, that's why I love blowing things up. That's why I love to come in and I have on jeans and they're rolled up too high and I have on loafers, so that's my business part, but you don't see my socks, right? I do a little French tuck, but that's because Queer Eye does it and they're all super stylish. I'm gonna do whatever they do. I don't have hair, right? So like I wear a hat because I'm like still a little insecure.

But your eyebrows are on point.

Bro, that's all I can say. Some, you know, I tell my wife like some people have abs, some people have eyebrows. I have eyebrows. So, um, yeah. And so I think there's some of the pieces of going, okay, how then do we, I think, and so I think this is great. We'll tie this back into kind of where in my story, like as I, as I got to a place of realizing, okay, I'm not a coach, I'm not this, what am I, what am I good at? What do I want to do? How do I shift? Identity mapping came out of that. And I was actually taking a client through the process. And I was like, yeah, I would love to package this. I don't know what it's called. I don't know. And he was like, really dude, it's just like a map. You know, it's like a map of my identity. And I was like, and thank you. And I will be taking that from now on. I remember the moment he said that. And so it is, it is an identity map. And I think from that, like, it's not because I'm going to tell you what your identity is. That's not how this process works. You are going to unpack yourself and I'm going to unbiasedly as an outsider, help you put pieces together and call bullshit on things that are not real, affirm things that I do believe are real so that you end up with a map to look at. And a map doesn't do anything for you if you're not willing to go somewhere, right? So, and I think, and that's the deal. A coach wants to help you get to where you want to go. I want to blow up enough things to get back into place that you can see clearly where you need to go. And then I'm going to trust you're going to hire a coach to help you get there. And that's not me, right? And so like, I always tell folks in the scale of like 0 to 10 in the like, how can we help you? I want to live in negative 1 through 1. That's my sweet spot, right? Like, I want to go, okay, here's where I am. Let's start at the beginning and go back a little further and then come forward a little bit. And then when you're about ready and the prime— the pump is primed, we got it, we have a picture, we see the thing, you have your map, you know the coordinates, you're about ready to go, you better hire a guide or a coach to take you there. And that's not me. Again, sometimes it sucks because that's not as, in the business world, that's not as sexy, right? You can't sell that as well. There's not a lot of beat you, there's not a lot of punch, punch, punch packages. Who wants to buy that? But I think owning that part gives me a lot of freedom to go, I know what I'm good at. Coach Burt, I just met him 2 weeks ago, Evan and I have been friends for a few months, and I think both of those guys are brilliant. I think they're both I think they're awesome, I think they're fabulous at what they do, and I can also look at them and go like, I am not competing with them in any way, shape, or form, because I don't do anything that they do, and guess what? I don't even want to. Not even for like, not even for the million dollars. I don't want to. I want them to, because they are great at it, but for those folks who look at them and go, man, I don't even know how I would get to that place, come to me. Like that. Let me engage with you there so that when the coaching starts, the pump has been primed and you're ready to go. And that's really the last 2 years.

That's the confidence in that where I think everybody out there is looking is really, you know, I talk a lot about I can help distill purpose and passion. And I know that's why there's so much overlap and why I very much loved everything that you were sharing. And if we can get people to that point, if people can get— they can get themselves to that point, but that's why they also come work with us when they get stuck. I think that's really what, at the end of the day, what everybody's really looking for. And then how do I take this into my relationships and parenting or business or spirituality? Because it does all go back to those common denominators.

Yep, yep, 100%. And so the last 2 years has really been me going, okay, I have Identity Mapping. I started selling it, like, both for individuals and then selling it for teams. So whether that's a— whether it's a spiritual team, it's a team in a corporate in a group of people, and so I've experienced, you know, it ties into my camp days, ministry days, it ties into my, this work, you know, creating good spaces and what that means days, and so, yeah, I think being in that and doing those things, like, has led to where I am now going, okay, I like being on stage and I love workshops. I love being able to take an audience of really, really, I don't care if you're 22 or you're 62, really the last 12 months I found that both parties like it. And I think it's again, because we're looking at where we are culturally, where we are individually, all those sorts of things. And so yeah, I want to be able to have 90 minutes to 8 hours. I'll take any of that time for me. I don't really like to do anything less than 90. And you and I talked about that. When we met at the Obsessed Conference, it was, you know, it was like, yeah, 45 minutes. I was like, ooh, then we're gonna pack 90 minutes in, because I don't do 45 minutes, you know.

But I don't think there was one person who did not walk away with some really valuable, powerful information. And I know when I came up to you after the break, and I'm like, man, like, all I do every day is talk about values-based decision-making, and it's spot on with what you're in alignment with, right? I can't help somebody unless they know what their core values are. Right? So when you're talking about identity mapping, how much, right, because I know you did talk about like there was a lot of the words that you shared and that's part of the identity mapping process. Where does that core values line up with exactly what you're doing?

Yeah. And so I think as I look at, as I look at my values, so I'm going to start there and then kind of go why I think it's important for other people to see that is, you know, my My top 5 values are vulnerability, generosity, individuality, fearlessness, and then trust. My number 1 value of vulnerability is not because I'm the most vulnerable person ever. It's because I value it above everything else because I know I need it and I long for it and I want everything that I do to be in that vein. Same thing with generosity. Yeah, do I tend to be a generous person with my things and my money? Sure. That's not the value. The value is because I want to be able to see things in such a way that allows me to know there has to be more to be given than just what I'm going to get. Right? Like that's the exchange. And again, and I think that's the key for values, both for me and I think as we take people through that process and do values work is we have to have a language. We have to have a vernacular and a vocabulary to talk about why we do what we do. What it is that we actually do. And so when we have our values, we say it's the why. It's the why you do what you do. It's the reason, intention, motivation behind everything that you choose. And so Knowing that then gives me a way to go, okay, I can pause. And we say it serves two purposes, a foundation and a filter, a foundation to build on, a filter to run things through. So then when, when, you know, I have 5, obviously my wife has 5, because how can you be married to me and not do a values exercise? And, um, and then we have 5 as our family. And so when we make decisions, we look at those 5 values and go, okay, um, you know, we're— do we want— we live here, we would like to have this kind of house on this much land in this area. So, uh, is that because— so if we want that, let's look at our values. Can we have that and be these people? And if the answer is yes, then great, the answer is yes. But if the answer is no, then we have to pause and go, okay, we have two choices then. Then we either can't have that if we want to be these people, or we can have that, but that means we are not these people, right? And so, you can't have both. And then that's an easy one to look at because buying a house, or this is a theoretical decision most people make. But then that goes all the way back to what I say yes to and how I spend my time. And what I do with that and when I go home and how much did I work. And so when I look at my values, even as an individual, yeah, like I'm not putting in 40 hours a week. Full disclosure, I'm not working, I don't want to. I want to be with my family. I want to go home. I want to spend time, like that's what I want to do. And so do I miss out on business? Yeah. Do I say no to opportunities? Yes. Have I said no to the same conference that will pay me a lot of money every October 21st through 24th? Yep, they have the same week every year and I said no for 3 years in a row. Because that's my son's birthday. And I'm not going. I don't care how much you pay me. I'm not going. And so, just give us those ability. I think it builds confidence. I think it builds quality. I think it builds a great foundation to choose. And now I don't have to say like, oh, I'm not doing that because I don't want to. I get to say like, I'm not doing that because that's not who I am. And it's not because you're not important to me. It's actually because you are so important to me and I value where I am at so much that I both want to know that I can be me and not have to compete with you, and we can both like that. And so I think as you, you know, as we've unpacked values, and values are kind of the first third of the identity mapping process, and it's because like I just don't think there's a better set of information I can have about you than knowing what your values are. Because when I know what your core values are, I know where you stand, I know how you want to be affirmed, what you like, I know how to get under your skin and what really pisses you off. And not that it should be used for that, but it's easy to pick that out, right? And so, yeah, I just think it's such great information. Now, here's the other thing. Figuring out your values and having it on a piece of paper is about half the battle. The other half of the battle is, are you ever gonna look at that piece of paper again and are you actually gonna make decisions that way, or are you just gonna keep doing what you want? And that is where 90-plus percent of people get in trouble, right? We wanna do the first part of the work that says, Oh yeah, yeah, I know what I value. And I go, great, well then tell me why you say that. You know, I posted on LinkedIn the other day, it was a picture from the Obsessed Con, but I put, you know, I was making a funny face and I put, this is my, if you work 80 hours a week but tell me your family's most important to you, you're lying face, you know? Because I think, I just think that's a huge, I just don't think that's true. And I don't, it's value neutral. I'm not telling you that it's bad. I don't have any ability, well, you know, barring that it's harmful or malicious, like I can for sure tell you that's bad, but, Barring your personal choice, like, who am I to tell you that 65 hours a week is not okay? If, hey, if you, if you can do that and grind that and you feel good about it and that fits in what you value with your family, great, bro. I mean, Coach Bird, that dude is— yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, Coach Bird is putting in time. I see his Insta stories. Hell, the dude's selling fitness now. Like, the dude is— you can join him on a workout and get coaching. Like, brilliant. Hello, brilliant. Love that about that.

So he can be back home, and which is what led him to eventually getting the plane so he can be back home at the end of the day or whatever, right? To not have to be away longer to be with his wife and daughter.

Right.

And these are all the things that everybody's priorities and values have to be in sync. Because there's a, there's a couple that I worked with and there was a conflict that came up. And I said, I really know I can help you. I can, I know that this can be solved. But 99% of the problem that I can help you with is first helping you identify your core values. I can't help you solve the conflict until I know you guys are either on the same page or not with your core values. Like you said, individually, I have them do their individual values. I have them do their sit-down together and what's their relationship couplehood core values. And then you might come to find that there's no problem to solve because you are just so not in alignment with each other that that's a symptom of this issue, not you know, not the actual main issue. So once we got that, once we got them cleared up on the core values, and now I'm starting to do really more interventions on it, they've already come back in and they're flying. Like, it's like, wow, this is like the best 2 weeks we've ever had because they're going back to that values. I give all my clients my printed out laminated list of core values with definitions. And I say, this is how I work. This is also what I expect of you. Does this align with you? Because people aren't gonna even get onto my red couch. I don't have a red carpet, I have a red couch, as you can see, right? They're not gonna get onto my red couches if we're not in alignment of our shared priorities and mission. And I know, I think that's something really powerful when it comes to the healing process, when it comes to a collaborative process, business, families, relationship. It'll take away so much of the conflict and the drama that people are facing and sharing. When they don't align with that.

Yeah, 100%. And not only just with each other, like, even internally, right? And then if you can get that, like, I think there's a great piece where then you go, okay, well then, for me, as we talk about identity mapping, then okay, what are the other pieces that we could pack onto that to just, to add topography to our map, right? Let's go with a map analogy. And then we have topography, but then we put some color coding on it., right? And then we put color coding on it and then we go, okay, is that a flat piece of land or is that water? Because if it's water, I should avoid that, right? And so what is my path? What are the places so that I can go? Because I think I have a good friend of mine, her name is Jen Jett. Um, she's been a friend of my wife and I's for a long time. And she said this to me, she says this all the time, but she said it to me and, you know, it's stuck in my head and I say it all the time now. She's like, I think a lot of times in life we approach things, um, as a right and wrong decision because that feels good to us. We want to feel the goodness of choosing right over wrong. But most decisions in life are right and left. They're not right and wrong. And that's hard for us, right? It's hard for us to know which is right and which is left. We like right and wrong because wrong is easy and I can still feel good about myself. But I think you need something. And for me, it's identity mapping. There's a lot of ways out there to do it. A lot of people have a lot of processes. But identity mapping helps me know, should I go right or left? I don't want it to be right or wrong. I want it to be right or left. I want to know, okay, well, for me and who I am and why I do things and how I do things and what I do and what that means, I should go right. Like, this is a turn right decision. And guess what? Guess what happens if you turn right and you get into a month and you realize like, oh shit, turn left. Like, it's— but I think that that requires a little bit of diligence and a little bit of slowness and a little bit of patience. And more importantly for us, It just requires a little bit of grace for ourself. Like you're not going to be perfect. You're not gonna get it right 100% of the time. As a matter of fact, you're probably not ever actually going to get it right. 'Cause in fact, you might just need to get it left. And I think like, but that's, I think it's a, there's a little bit of ambiguity that I think it's difficult for a lot of us, myself included at times, because that doesn't feel as solid or as confident.

Do you find that people give up on this process too quickly? That they're starting to build some slow momentum, they're not seeing the outcomes Rhythms, right? They have this— we get clear on something and then we have to put the action steps in and then you have to build the rhythms and rituals, right? I kind of call this like building a lifestyle by design. Matt Manero also talks about it a little bit differently from when it comes from a financial perspective. But I, you know, I put together this process of like, right, we start with the core values and we get into your priorities, then we get into your goals, then we get into the action steps for each of those things and then putting it into rhythms and rituals. And then the accountability on that, which really a 6 or 7 step process. I'm finding that people don't have the buy-in for long-term, right? We talk about this instant gratification mindset of, right? The I want it and I want it now, Veruca Salt from Willy Wonka. How do you challenge that expectation and assumption that this is gonna be an overnight fix versus Hey, buddy, this is gonna be a 10-year buy-in. You're gonna see these momentums, you're gonna see these, you're gonna see these, these, these achievements happen, and it's gonna be really good for a little bit. And then a new awareness is going to come up that you have to— that you never thought you'd have to work on. But because you went through that previous thing, now it's going to let you work on this. How do, how do you feel you can get them to get that buy-in to be a little bit more patient for the long term?

Yeah, that's great. So there's, there's two things that I think every person has to be able to believe. There's two statements we have to believe same time, same breath, um, in order to find clarity, freedom, opportunity. Right. And so, um, for me, these two statements are number one is that you're wildly unique and extraordinary and there's no one in the world like you, right? Like I believe fundamentally it's, it's impossible for there to be identical twins should be called identical. They should be called similar twins. It's physically impossible to have anybody in the world like you. Same time, same breath, no punctuation. Second statement is, is that I am 100% regular, meaning that I'm no more, no less valuable than anybody else on earth, right? And I think the tension of these two statements, the ability to say that there's no one in the world like me, and the statement that says that I'm 100% regular, meaning we're all equally valuable, the tension of those two things, the ability to live and believe both those things at the same time, is where we create patience, is where we create opportunity, it's where we create, we know, because here's why, when you believe both of those. I believe you can stand unapologetically in who you are as a human being. And then I think you can remain fully aware that your neighbor is not your competition in your own purpose, right? It gives you the ability to, I can stand confidently and go, okay, this is me, unapologetically, bald head, big eyebrows, all of it. Like, this is me. And same time, and you, you, Jason Wasser, you are not my competition in my purpose. And so what happens, what happens is where we want instant gratification is I want to know that you are my competition in my purpose so that I can beat you so I can feel good. When in fact, you are never my competition in any way, shape, or form, right? And so even take it to business. Even take AT&T and Sprint, two companies, they both provide the same thing. And we should say they're in direct competition with each other. Like, I don't think so. Like I think there are people who appreciate AT&T because of their brand, who they are, and what they provide. And there are people who are gonna need Sprint because of where they live and who they are and what they provide. And they're two totally different demographics. T-Mobile, Totally different demographic, right? GoPhone, totally different demographic. They're all different. But if we could learn to compete in a way that allowed us to be us and not for me to fight you to try to be me, oh my gosh, there's so much space there. And so I think where that creates patience, where that creates a little bit longer term and it gives us the ability to not be the overnight millionaire, the overnight, nothing is overnight. Nobody has ever made a million dollars overnight unless you won the lottery. And then it's still not overnight 'cause you gotta wait 4 weeks to get your check. So there, it's like, it does, it doesn't occur. And so where longevity comes in, where consistency and dedication comes in, is the ability to go, every day I'm going to wake up and say, I know there's value in me, and I know there's no one in the world like me, and I know that I can, I can wake up today and I'm going to bring something to the world nobody else can, because my neighbor is not my competition in my own purpose. But every time we do that, we play ping pong in life. We go, what are they doing? What are they doing? What are they doing? What are they doing? What happens is, is we totally miss the entire boat on the exact thing we were made to do and then we inevitably rob somebody else. And so we do a mediocre job at something we were actually never made or designed to do. Okay. And so, um, I think like, I, I don't, I don't know of another or a better way to be able to say, um, that there is a clarity and freedom that I believe regardless of where you work or what you believe or your spiritual beliefs, that for every human being, there is no one in the world like you. You have a unique set of gifts, talents, abilities, skills, um, desires, passions, emotions that nobody else in the world has. Our ability to sit in that and spend consistent effort to understand, unpack, and grow in those arenas. Then sets us up to do something or some things in the world that nobody else can do. And that you want to monetize it, monetize it. You want to get a direct deposit for it, get a direct deposit for it. You want to use those skills and go to a job 8 to 5, exactly 40 hours a week, and spend the rest of your time whenever you want, and you want to live that life, do that. You want to buy a tiny house and live in that and live on a third of the income that you need because you want to spend— you want to work 10 hours a week, Do that. I'm, I don't, I don't, I am zero interest on how you choose or what you choose to do with your time. My greatest desire is I want you to have the clarity though, to be able to say, I can confidently know me and I can be in a room with other people who may achieve things that maybe culturally look, but that doesn't mean they're more valuable. Right? Like even when you and I met at that conference, I even talked about it there. And I've said a few times since then, like there was a moment before I got on stage that I thought like I had to like check myself. Cause I'm like, what am I doing? What am I doing here? Right, like Judge Graham is getting up and talking, and the dude's got a company worth $150 million, and then Matt Manero, whose whole book is You Need More Money, is on stage, and literally I was like taking notes, and I was like, well, I'm broke, I'm broke, I'm broke. I'm like, all of his assessments prove that I don't know what I'm doing. Right, and then he gets up, who put on the entire conference, and then Coach Burt's coming after me, and he like has an entire setup with 2 employees, a video guy, a full table of 9 books and 8 courses you can buy, and I'm like, hey listen, here's what we're gonna do today. We're gonna really talk about how we feel, and we're gonna get into what we value. What?

Yeah.

But there was a moment that I had to peel back and go, but that doesn't, if I compare myself and my purpose to what these people are doing, I'm going to lose 100% of the time. But if I back up and I'm able to go, but there's something I'm bringing and there has to be a reason that I was asked to be on the stage to do this thing. And replace stage with friend. Replace friend with coffee, replace coffee with by myself in the room. There has to be a reason those things are happening. Do I know myself well enough to back up far enough to assess what that is so that I know what it really means?

And I think that's one of the most powerful takeaways that I got from that day event was the idea that being a therapist coming into the entrepreneur space, being a therapist and coach in the entrepreneurial world outside of my private practice, is that there's not enough talk about this. So the excitement that I had to share with you, right, and, um, and one of the main reasons why I thought this message was so important to get out to the listeners that are out there is that this is the part that we cannot forsake when it comes to our journey, especially in the entrepreneurial space. So, right, so the four domains of this podcast are psychology, spirituality, natural wellness, and entrepreneurship. Right? Those when you talk about like the 4 things I like, if you can whittle me down into 4 areas that are the most passionate about, that's it, right? Music is part of spirituality for me, right? So add that in there. But I think that this is the space that when people are talking about, like, we joked before about the rising grinders, the working 60 hours a week, and I want work-life balance. Well, you can't do that if, like you said, right? If you're working the 60, 70 hours a week, where's the balance, right? Unless that's your priorities and everybody else wraps around that. But the language that you are speaking the language, the work that you and I are both doing is probably one of the most vital things that have been missing in this space, in this community. So to be able to show up and to be bold and to be yourself and to be brave in that and to own that is really, really, really powerful. So when you're talking about that quote, right, that you're wildly extraordinary and no one else is like me, and the other side of the coin, I'm no more or no less valuable than anybody else, reminds me of this really beautiful Jewish mystical teaching by Rabbi Nachman, who was a Hasidic guru, for lack of a better term, in the 1600s, 1700s. And he said that people at all times should have two notes in each of their pockets, one note in each pocket. One note should say, written, I am nothing but dust and ashes. And on the other side, the other note should say, the whole world was created just for me. So the real question is, is how can that both be true, right? If I'm nothing but dust and ashes, that means I really don't matter, I have to check my ego, or as the world-famous psychologist Dr. Cube once said, check yourself before you wreck yourself, right? And on the other side of the coin is the whole world was created for me, then it's my stewardship, it's my responsibility, it's my accountability. The main question is, is at what point in the day do you pull out which note?

Mm-hmm. I think I could not agree more with any of those sentiments or things. Because I think that is really the key. Um, and it does, it take work. Yep. It's take effort. Yes. Is it difficult? Yes. Um, is there beauty and amazement and freedom and opportunity, um, on the other side? 100%. And I think as we look at ourselves, so those of you that are watching that, or I think at any place, but specifically in the entrepreneur world, you know, and the biggest word out there is like influence. Who's your influence? Where's your influence? I think I have found as you look through history, both in good and evil, both the folks that have the greatest influence are those that confidently and truthfully speak out of both sides of their mouth at the same time, but not in a way to be a jerk or not a way to be manipulative, but in a way that is true. And so the ability to say, and I say this a lot, and in the beginning I think it was defensive, but now I think it's true, I'm like, I both— I don't care at all what you think about me. I literally, I don't care. At the same time, I want so badly for you to like me and to approve of me and to appreciate me, right? And like, I don't care at all if you think what I'm saying is right or true, or you think I'm an idiot. Great. And I want so badly for you to love it and believe it and for it to affect you and change you. And you can go on down the list. But I think we love polarity because polarity gives instant gratification. I want to say, I don't give a shit what you think about me. I'm out. I feel good. Done. But then what about the other side? We don't want to deal with the other side because the other side might mean you can say no. And if you say no, I get hurt. And then if I get hurt, and then we unpack it, right? And so like, I don't know. I think there's really something for each of us. I think everybody has some of those like main key truths that we have that we know that we believe. And so I think Freedom comes when we are able to see the other side and know that it has to live and has to breathe somewhere. And our ability to put those things together, yeah, I just think it's really powerful.

Yeah, and I think the polarity is actually the fuel that gives us the motivation when we really tap into that and identify it and do this type of work. And I think the people out there that are really truly successful in these multiple aspects of life, like maybe it might have been you who said it that weekend, it's like you could be making the $100 million a year, but if you're coming home to a family that is just completely falling apart, you're not doing it right. And vice versa, if your family's doing amazing but you're not able to put the food on the table, then it's the other side of the coin. It is the ownership of all these different venues of our life that we have to take accountability for and responsibility for. But we have to know how to show up truly in that purpose, truly in that sense of self. And that will— you will find the people to partner with. You will find the people that are going to be in alignment with that. And the people who are not hopefully will just step away or you'll dismiss them from, from your life. So I know that our time is limited and I know that we have so much more to talk about. So, you know, I just want to wrap up, I guess, with the how can people find you? What's going on in the next little bit for you? What are you putting out there and how can they track you down?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. And so there's not a lot of Rocky Garza there. The only other one I know of is actually here in Dallas and he's a, he's a bass player and I'm not musically inclined. Client, so if you find that guy, it's not me. So yeah, you can find me on, yeah, my website is just rockygarza.com. Instagram is @rockygarza, Facebook is /rockygarza, LinkedIn is in/rockygarza. Yeah, so any of those places, feel free, hit me up, shoot me an email, shoot me a DM on Instagram or a message on LinkedIn, connect with me, reach out to me. My greatest desire is to find a way that I can serve you and help you in that, whether that's one-on-one personal identity mapping, and so that's something I'm working on now. Hopefully by the end of this year, identity mapping will be live. As a course you can take online. And so there's still the face-to-face option, obviously, if you're local or you want to fly in and do that. But the hope is to try to get this where we can create impact in a way that we can get out as many in front of as many people as possible for you to get the chance to kind of work through that and find that space. So we're working on that. Yeah, I would love to come and speak or do a workshop. So any place you are, where you're at, we'll travel and speak. So wherever those things are. But yeah, we're we're working on some content. Again, you know, just, I want to stay in that negative one-to-one space. That's my sweet spot. And so I'm not going to talk about marketing or scaling or branding or business, or that's just not, that's not where I'm at. And so if you're looking for that, there's a lot of guys that have been on this podcast before you can find that from, and they'll kill it for you. I think if you want to get more down to the space of looking at what are, who am I and what does that mean, then yeah, that's, that's where I want to be. So man, it was, it was so, so great Great to chat with you. I foresee us doing this again in the future, a special episode number 23, where we maybe invite folks to come in on a call with us and we do a little punch, punch, punch, hugging for them maybe or something. I don't know. We'll figure that part out. Yeah.

There's so much for us to tackle and accomplish. I think one of the last things I want to make a special request of you before you have to go is I know this big part of your journey has been with your wife, and I know she's doing some really cool stuff out there. So I just want to give you 30 seconds just to plug her and what she's doing.

Yeah, yeah. My wife is an interior designer, and so her company is called Garza Interiors. You can find her at garzainteriors.co is her website, or on Instagram, she's Sarah, no H, Sarah_Garza. She's way better at everything than I am, and she's way more inspirational. So if you're looking for that on the Grams, you should for sure follow her. Uh, yeah, she's great. So we're, we're doing that. We've kind of hopefully sometime in the next 12 months, us and another couple are working on some, some couples things and some couples retreats, uh, potentially we're gonna put together. So, um, yeah, we've got, we've got a house in East Texas. So if you're in the Texas area at all called the Wild House, the E on Wild, um, Airbnb. So go hang out there. It's an all-black modern farmhouse. We'd love you to stay there. We'd love to host you if we can. So, um, yeah, that's where, that's where we're at.

Awesome, awesome, awesome. Rocky, thank you so much. I really, really look forward to collaborating with you again. And if anybody has any questions, obviously can reach out to him on all the different social media places, check out his YouTube videos, follow him on Instagram, give him a shout out for his awesome hat and especially his awesome eyebrows. And that's it. We'll talk to you soon, my man.

Thanks, sir. Appreciate it.

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