Ep. 128-Breaking Out Of the Medical Mindset with GoBundance Member Dr. Brett Levine

This is the You Winning Life Podcast, your number one source for mastering a positive existence. Each episode we'll be interviewing exceptional people, giving you empowering insights, and guiding you to extraordinary outcomes. Learn from specialists in the worlds of integrative and natural wellness, spirituality, psychology, and entrepreneurship so you too can be winning life. Now here's your host, licensed LMFT 🎗️, marriage and family therapist, certified neuro-emotional technique practitioner, and certified entrepreneur coach Jason Wasser.

All right, so guys, this is episode 3 that I've done today at the GoBundance conference that I'm an awesome guest of Erica Brawl and OnAir Brands, and I'm getting to meet some really incredible people. Um, and there's something about being in a mastermind community. There's something about going to these conferences. Where there's deep dives and people genuinely care about each other. And this morning I happened to have breakfast with Dr. Brett Levine, who is the guest today, this afternoon. And, um, not only that, uh, that he's a guest, but he's creating his own community besides being a medical doctor. And I'm going to let you get into all of that. I know there's so much we talked about this morning, we didn't even get into 90% of what we could talk about. But first, welcome.

Thank you. So, so glad to be here.

I'm glad you're here. So, um, gosh, it's, it's, it's, you know, there's so many topics that we can tackle in the next 45 or so minutes. Um, can we reverse engineer everything? And I want to start with your, not the medical career, but where you're going into now with the community that you're training, and we'll work our way backwards from there.

Fascinating. That's an interesting way to go. Uh, so currently I'm a father of 3 teenagers, an 18-year-old and twin 16-year-olds. I'm happily married for 21 years. That's probably my first role and priority. I have a medical practice where I'm a partner in a 4-surgeon ear, nose, and throat surgery group, and we're growing. I have real estate investments, uh, 10 doors in Texas, and I'm invested in various syndications and different asset classes. But the thing that's really driving me and exciting me is I launched a platform called Breaking Out of the Medical Mindset, uh, this year in January of 2022. And this is a platform to provide healthcare providers, doctors, nurses, dentists, physical assistants with strategies, breakthrough strategies that change the way they think and the way they act, because I found that previously, and even currently, I think I battle this, uh, many of the strategies that I had learned and habits that helped me succeed in medicine were actually causing me to be stuck and not expand to where I wanted to be. And there's a lot of challenges in medicine today. There's a lot of hopelessness, a lot of suffocation and stagnation, and just burn— they call it burnout.

Sure.

And, um, I think people are still trying to grow what has worked for them in the past, and it's not getting them anywhere. So this platform really came out of me sharing that, sharing stories, sharing quotes, sharing lessons, and sharing things that I do differently. It sort of reminds me of a Seinfeld episode, for those people who've seen Seinfeld, where George Costanza did the opposite of everything he would normally do and have all this amazing success by ordering something different at the diner and telling a girl that he's bald and living with his parents, and suddenly his life changes.

Yeah.

And, uh, it sounds very simple to say it, but to actually do things differently than you're used to doing and that has worked for you in the past is really uncomfortable and challenging. But that's where I am now. And, and starting this platform is uncomfortable and challenging, but also it's challenging in an exciting way. And I've learned that discomfort can also be exciting.

Sure.

If you look at it that way.

Absolutely.

So the platform— I send out a blog post once a week. It's a weekly letter. And just this past week, we launched a course which has 30 breakthrough strategies and videos to help people walk through it. It's probably a course someone would have to take over a year. It is a lot of content. It's a lot of change. And these are changes I'm sharing from over 10 years. And I think the medical mindset for most of us is have a goal, do it, finish it, move on. But real change is uncomfortable, takes time, and is a process.

Yeah, well, this morning at breakfast we were talking about like what's that duality between people who are getting stuck and wanting something different versus people who are getting stuck and have no clue, even if someone is telling them that there's stuff different out there. And you know, I've been debating for a while, like even when I see it with some of my clients they show up already when chaos is happening. They're showing up when they're maybe at the brink of getting divorced or there's some financial, major financial difficulties versus preempting things. So in the medical field, and one of the things that, you know, I said to you also this morning was, um, I don't see that many medical doctors. I have a ton of attorneys, I have a ton of people in other professions. Um, and we were, you know, debating around the idea of like vulnerability. Is it right because they don't want to put themselves out there? Is there medical liability stuff? What do you think, just being in that field? I mean, you've been in the direct lines.

I, I don't think, uh, there's any liability in seeing a therapist or a coach. I think those are expansive, great things, but they do require vulnerability. And the medical mindset is that we are perfect. We do it all alone on our own. And this is one of those strategies that really, to break out of that, you need to learn what leverage is. You need to learn the benefit of networks. You need to learn I needed to learn the benefit of vulnerability, and that has been a decade-long process of being able to share things that were not— were mistakes, were problems. And people come to doctors to have them solve their problems and don't want to hear about the doctor's problems. So I think the answer is that everything is not medicine. So you can have your doctor hat on and follow the goal to be perfect, to, uh, to do it on your own because you don't know if you're going to be in the middle of the night not having any backup. But that doesn't have to be your role as a father or your role as a husband or your role as a business owner or your role as a real estate investor or your role as a human who's growing.

Yeah, so the leverage component, that's something that I've learned the last couple years in my business community. The core values of that community is simplicity, probability, and leverage.

Love it.

Right? Easy. Will this make my life simpler? Yes or no? Is it probable by the goals that I want or the outcomes that I want? Am I setting up the action steps that are likely and highly probable to make that happen? And then third thing is, if I can't do it, and I probably shouldn't be doing it, who should I be hiring or referring it out to do to get it accomplished? And that one blew my mind. And I see this in this different developmental stage, especially medical fields where we're trained to be very specific and then expertise training and then expertise, expertise training. And then to say like, no, no, I want to bring someone else in to do that. So what have you seen in your own developmental stages as a practitioner, as an expert? I mean, you're so specialized in your, in the medicine field. How did that start like getting root in you? Because I mean, you can only see so many people, you can only do so many procedures and whether it's contracted or it's time for money, but you still hit a wall. How did you start letting go of that?

Like, okay, that's a great question, but we're gonna have to back up in time then a little bit.

Let's do it.

So, uh, I coming out of training, I knew ear, nose, and throat surgery. And even within medicine, uh, you come out of training, you've been trained in everything within your specialty, and you want to do it all. And what happens is over time, uh, just based on volume and time, you can't do it all. You don't get all the referrals for certain surgeries. And after a while, your focus in medicine starts narrowing based on the demand and based on interest, really. And the benefit of a group, the benefit of a practice is we have other— we each have different interests. So we have someone who is trained more in voice and swallowing than I am. So most of the people with hoarseness or difficulty swallowing, go see my partner. Uh, I have my— another partner prefers working with children. I know how to take care of children, I still see children, but the majority of the children go to him because that is his love. So, uh, within our medical specialty, we make choices based on what is your passion and what is your interest, and that serves the patients best. I think as far as the business of medicine, running a practice, I learned that I just simply cannot do it all. And I also learned from my mastermind groups and even from friends who are entrepreneurs that it is not good use of my time to do it all. There was a time where I was ordering the printer for the copier, and people were coming to me when this chair was broken or someone was out, and I really was the office manager since I had my own private practice. And people were always standing at my door asking me to fix this, fix this, and fix this. Outside of medicine. And over time, I had to learn that it wasn't a cost for me to hire an office manager. It actually was an investment to free me up, to allow me to focus my time in a different way. That is something I had to learn. That is not what you learn in medicine, because in training you are doing everything. You really are. You, you are expected to go take some blood if the blood needs to be done, go bring a patient to a test if that needs to be done. You do whatever needs to be done because that makes it a sign that you never say no and you are good at what you do. But over time, I learned that no actually is power. Oh no, it gives you choice and control, and no allows you to find your hell yes, which makes your life much better.

I love that. One of my coaches that I did a training with, he's all about that. It's either hell no or hell yes, but there's no hell maybes. And if it is a hell maybe, then it's definitely a hell no, right? And, and when I share that with people, they're like, wait, What? And like, it really is that simple. And to have the audacity to just be like, I just don't have the bandwidth for that, or this is not the right fit. Like, I think our society is now in our entrepreneur space that shifted. But I think in, as that's trickling into the non-entrepreneurial society, I think that psychology is finally gaining more hold. But when you were talking before about like, it's like, it sounds like triage. Like when you're in a business and it could be a medical practice, it could be anybody that's listening. Like you said, they have to say yes. They have to be the type of person that's most agreeable. And I know like Jordan Peterson talks about that one, the psychology of traits. And I know he's a controversial person of himself, but, but in that one thing of like the agreeability that he talks about when it comes to businesses and working for someone, that you— and I've talked about this in an earlier episode— that people who are working for others sometimes feel that they need the job and know that they need the job more than the company might need them.

I think there's a time for yes and there's a time for no. And when you are learning and growing and proving yourself, yes is the answer. Yes gets you in the door. Yes puts you in front of other people. That is the time for yes. When you're a leader, when you're an owner, when you're trying to manage other people, then I think there is a time for no. It's different stages in the whole growth phase of schooling and structure to leading. Yeah.

So how would one avoid, because I've heard this in different industries, whether it's in medical or other professional industries where they might say, well, that person, oh, like don't, don't even bother them anymore. They're prima donna. They're not going to handle it. They're going to, and then they get that ego on one side, but maybe it's a good boundary, but other people are seeing it as, oh, they're too good for that. So how, how do you navigate that? How would you suggest someone navigate that when it's truly an authentic versus like, I'm too good for this? And I see that commonly.

Yeah, I think it really depends on the individual situation, but, uh, I think communication and expectations, uh, for the job, for the position, and with the person is really important to know why they are there, what they want out of it, how you can find a win-win. Everything doesn't have to be a win-lose. You can find the win-win, or you may just have found, uh, the reason that that this no longer works. And sometimes letting go gives you the opportunity to find something better. And, you know, the control freaks in us, the compulsive people, the Type AAA people, want to have everything under their control with their decision. And another thing I talk about is it was very hard for me, but I learned that letting go actually gives you more control. Of how you react or don't react. Letting go gives you freedom. So, uh, sometimes a relationship runs its course and you've maximized the potential and it's no longer a good fit and it's time to move on. And sometimes you're freeing up someone who is the prima donna to be where they would be happy and no longer be a prima donna.

Yeah. So when you're walking through this, and I know a lot of times— and I'm having this with one of my clients right now— where they're in a, in a massive business. They're bringing tons of effort and energy and excitement, and, you know, they keep hitting a wall. They— but there's a fear factor of, right now I have a job, it's a difficult market, I don't want to have to move, all those things. Um, and I can see it also right in the medical profession where they're just happy in the location, they don't want to have to sell their apartment or move or pick up their family. How would you suggest, like, so if you had someone who was working for you as an associate, how would you, how would you, want to guide them, teach them, train them, mentor them to handle those type of situations, to bring it to you as, you know, the owner of the practice, or if you are the boss, and, you know, they know that they can bring more. Maybe they're feeling like they're getting shut down. Maybe they're feeling like they're not being— having their value be seen. What, what tips would you give someone in that situation?

I, I honestly think in medicine, at least, there is— it's not common to really be honest and authentic. And, and there's no way someone can communicate with you or meet your needs, or you both can find the win-win if you're not telling the truth. And a lot of times people will tell you what they think you want to hear, and then they're going along in that mindset with that strategy, with those goals, because they're aligned. But if you are not being authentic and honest and telling them something that is not true to you, you're going to have a discord and a problem. And I have found in my experience that has occurred because I did not understand what they really wanted or what was important to them, because our goal is for people to be happy. Sure. If you're not happy, it's not going to work out. It's not going to last. And then you're wasting time. So you can't make people happy unless they tell you what will make them happy. There is no way for me to know what will make you happy, for what— for me to know what will make a patient happy or for what will make any of my associates or staff happy unless they tell me. This is important to me. This is what I value. This is my goals. So I speak in, I speak in values and goals, really.

Yeah. So I guess that does go back to being either empowered or feeling like a victim in this situation.

I don't know if I would call it empowered or victim or just really being honest with yourself. Uh, in Go Abundance, we sort of pick a theme each year, and when I started out coming from the medical mindset. My themes were all how I thought in medicine— soar, you know, how much can I accomplish, how fast can I increase my, my horizontal income, my financial freedom. Everything was driven towards accomplishing and goals because that's really very action-oriented, and I'm goal-oriented as most people in healthcare are. And this year's theme is trust your truth. Is just really about trust and not feeling, uh, and being as authentic and real as I can be, which is extremely vulnerable. And all of the posts that I share are really true life crises, true life, uh, moments of discomfort. But those moments are where change occurs. And, uh, if you just keep doing the same thing over and over, you're going to see the same results and nothing's going to change.

Sure.

And I am a bit addicted to change and growth because how else will you know what your potential is for life? And there are many gifts medicine gives you, and one of the gifts is your mortality is staring you in the face every day. And I see people my age or younger who are at the end of their life, or you see or know or hear people who've ended their lives much younger than you would hope for. And it's just a reminder that none of us knows. Sure. So I have to just, uh, achieve and experience as much as I possibly can while I'm here.

Well, the phraseology of it is very soft. It's very loving. It's much more tender than, like you said, like these action-oriented big goals that are KPIs and, and all those other things. And, and I know that as part of this community and other mastermind communities, they wanted to trickle into your personal life, into your health, into into your spirituality, into your family, into your relationships, all that stuff like that. Before, you know, you talk about being quite a father and, and family stuff. And where have you seen the biggest changes from yourself? Because like you said, you were already into all of this stuff, but then once you got involved in this type of community, it kind of really—

yeah, it exploded, I would say. Yeah, I would say The biggest— if I had to pinpoint one thing, it is not limiting who I am, how I am, and what I do based on being a doctor. And I would say that in the beginning of my professional career and through my training, I had a laser focus of getting through college, getting into medical school, getting into residency, finishing my training, and beginning a practice. I, I had such a laser focus that I really didn't have any serious relationships, didn't get married, didn't have kids, didn't buy a house. Uh, medicine took priority, which is really the case for most people, and it's why they suddenly take this fast-forward approach the minute they get a job of, okay, now I need to get married, now I need to get kids, now I need to get a house. And you have this massive expectation just to catch up because you've missed 15 years of life. And for that time, for that time period of this laser focus, really nothing trumped me excelling in what I do and having that image of who I wanted to be as a surgeon you would be confident in coming in and going to sleep and having me operate on you. Yeah. Uh, over time I have learned and realized I can be funny. Still, or I can, um, give you a hug, or I can share a story about my kids, uh, that I never would have done earlier in my life because I wanted to have this— I wanted to grow and maintain this image of a respected physician that you can trust. Uh, I've come to learn that people trust me more when they see me more as human, and I share you know, what it's like having 3 teenagers, which is a challenging time in fatherhood. Or I share, uh, you know, a story about my wife, or a story about tennis, or just really anything about life, because people have a need for connection. And I think they especially have a need with their doctors. And I— and that is why people drive an hour to come to our office, because they saw us somewhere, they like us, and they don't want to and I want to try out other people, you know. There, there's a value to relationship and connection.

Yeah, and I debate this a lot with like chiropractic community because I have a very niche in, um, in those type of things where it's a little bit more open because you're getting in there, you're getting into their body. And I see that with a lot of my friends that they bring a lot more of themselves into the room. And then you have people obviously who have no boundaries, and that's in every field, but those who are doing it in a healthy way, and you can see see the relatability factor for the practitioners, whether it's a therapist or that. And I know that everybody talks about bedside manner mostly with primary care or specialist type medicine, but they don't necessarily talk about it when it comes to the ancillary supports, PT, OT, speech, or the Eastern, or the Eastern, holistic practices, acupuncture and all that.

Yeah. I think because those, it is accepted and welcomed to, for it to be a whole experience and interaction for there to be a sharing of vulnerability. I know people who are acupuncturists or masseuses, and they will say they have clients who cried, you know, just from their interaction and released. I think, I think there are so many differences between those disciplines and Western medicine, which now is really guided by volume and technology. So those are distractions along the way. And challenges for the future of medicine, really, because we have this, this middleman called insurance that forces people to certain doctors, forces doctors to take whatever they get paid or watch their pay go down regardless of how good they are. And, uh, honestly, I think is the downfall of the future of medicine, but that's a whole different topic.

I agree. Well, I told you this morning that I dropped pretty much all my insurances, and it's been so frustrating because I felt— I genuinely feel bad because the insurance that I dropped, I actually have for myself, but I don't use it except for when I'm going, right, for a lab. But it is so frustrating because one, as a practitioner, that's the last thing I want to do is not service a certain population, especially if they've been with me so long. And then I had to work out special rates with them, which has been a blessing on both sides because then we don't have to worry about coding and diagnoses and stuff like that. But I do see this like I don't know, how do you see it as sustainable? And I think maybe this is probably what you get into in your courses of— or do you get into this, the sustainable model of what is where you have 8 minutes, 6 minutes, 4 minutes, whatever it is with a, with a, with a patient? How can you get what they need from you? I mean, I mean, you're—

I mean, you try to direct it as best you can and try to leverage your staff to— so my— I have a great medical assistant who gets most of the history, the medical problems, the medications, the surgery, things that I don't need to sit and record, and, uh, sort of gives me a foundation to walk in and direct in a more narrow focus than starting in 1942 of what— why they're here.

Yeah.

And talk about that problem specifically and on their area. And, uh Everyone has to have some compassion and understanding that when you go into a doctor's office, you are seeing someone after 5, 10, 15, or 20 other patients have been there. So it's not McDonald's. Every Quarter Pounder with cheese doesn't take the same amount of time. And all you can do is understand that everyone's doing the best they can, honestly. And sometimes we're running ahead of schedule. And we have no wait. And sometimes we've had 2 patients that were more complicated or had an anxiety attack and fainted or bled or something and have thrown the schedule out.

Yeah, which makes sense. And, and if only, right, it's like as much as like we get annoyed at the doctors and the doctor's offices, we need to take that into consideration that you are doing some heavy lifting sometimes.

Yeah.

So I want to jump back just a little because I know that, right, again, this course that you're creating in this platform for medical practitioners But the idea of how all of this, of what you've been doing, has affected your family, has affected your marriage, has affected the stuff that, like, you know, we come in and people talk about net worth and talk about properties and everybody here is talking about real estate. But at the end of the day, you're still going home.

Yes, that's a really, really interesting question that no one's ever asked me. And I would say that, that This new venture, this new platform, um, has probably inspired and taught my family more about who I am. And, uh, as I expand who I am and what I can do, they see me as a different person. And, um, you're not the first person to say that. It's like I— my wife has become more involved in the things I do. She gives her opinion. I certainly don't ask her for my opinion when I do a surgery or I see a patient, But with Breaking Out of the Medical Mindset, she's seen the videos, she knows the teams I work with, she sees what I write. So she— her input is part of it, uh, which I think helps our relationship. Uh, my children know all the mastermind group members who meet at our house. They know the different projects. They see me creating something from nothing. And those are all valuable possibilities for them to see. In a role model to see besides me just heading off to the hospital or heading off to see patients. I think we don't always appreciate how powerful the foundation is that we give our kids, good or bad, of what they see to make the meaning of a man, a woman, a father, a husband, a wife, a mother. And so I really am aware and appreciate that. I appreciate that when I play tennis on a regular basis. I appreciate that when when they see me working at night or leaving early in the morning or coming home early to hang out with them or me being at their games or me introducing them to friends that can maybe help them because, you know, they see their parents in a different light than they see other people. All of that are gifts you can give your children. So I, I think as I expand and do more things and I'm less narrowed and constrained, that expands the possibility for my children.

Is there anything that they kind of shocked you out of the blue that maybe by something they listened to or heard from your sphere of influence that came out of their mouths or some type of thing that they did and you're like, oh my gosh, like—

For sure, my children teach me all the time, just like my patients do. I definitely tend or used to be perfectionistic and my kids will all the time teach me this is enough. You know, where I would have maybe spent 2 more hours studying for the test, they're like, "Dad, I'm done." Or I would have spent 3 more hours on the project, or I would have worked on the resume a little more and revised it. They're like, "This is good." And they've just taught me everyone is not me. I mean, I've learned to appreciate that with my staff. I've learned to appreciate that with patients and to just come and offer what you can and not have judgment and let it go from there. So I learn things from my kids all the time. I've learned to laugh at myself because they love to laugh at any mistake I make, of course. And, um, it is the— my favorite adventure of my entire lifetime, raising kids. Just, it has been such a wonderfully spectacular experience and continues to be. It just changes, it morphs all the time. And that in itself has been a lesson to me because I'm someone who you tell me how something goes and I just assume it will be that way for eternity. And the mastermind groups have shown me what pivoting means and how you see how things go. If it's not going the right way, you pivot and make another choice. It's not a failure, it's not a crisis, it just is a pivot. And you know, it's, it's languaging. But my kids also, every 6 months, are really different people. You know, they're all in high school, and the difference between being 16 and 16 and a half and 18 is really different as they make different decisions. My son has gone through a whole journey of, uh, of applying for college and whether he wants to stay in-state or go out-of-state, or whether he wants to go to community college. And it can be a little frustrating at times when you're used to being someone who commits and goes, but, uh, it also allows me the grace to give him the freedom to make choices for his own life.

I love it. I feel that word has not been used often enough in this, especially in the last couple years of like just having grace and just— because everything's been so insane and so intense. And I think coming to these type of communities is a little bit of a reprieve from all that. And then you at least get to like recharge, refresh, and like at least maybe bring this home and like, all right, let's trickle it down a little bit. And even though I'm not part of the community and I have my own, but it's still like, yeah, that's right, right, we got to work on that. But I know just being in this environment—

well, this environment that you're seeing here expands to your life when these are the people that you hang out with in life. Yeah, you know, it's all a choice. It's all a choice of your focus, of what you say yes and no to, and how you align your time. So I have been able to sort of change my life to narrow it more to people who align to the future me that I want to be. And that takes, that takes intentionality, it takes focus, and it takes the decision-making to say no to things you might have said yes to because you don't want to make someone uncomfortable, or because you want to be nice, or because you've been— that's what you've done before. And it's very easy to robotically and unconsciously just live the same day, life, month, year, and suddenly you're 70 and you say, where did my life go?

Yeah, I think that, that bandwidth factor of saying yes, saying no, what causes chaos, what doesn't cause chaos. I'm seeing it more and more where even when healthy boundaries are very much part of my private practice, but even the clients I would take on early on did not have core value-based or, you know, these principles of saying, well, who's an appropriate client for me versus like, nope, I have to take everybody. And I wonder, I guess, people are listening for whether it's in their business or their personal life is to sit down and come up with those core values. And I know we talk about it in the most generic way. Well, what are the core values? I want someone nice and kind and funny, but I'm talking about deeper dives into that, but also making it for different categories. You can have it for your family, you can have it for your relationships, you can have it for your friends, you can have it for your, for your coffee, whatever it is. But at least you have a set of guiding principles that will minimize some of that chaos. So just as we wrap up, I want to go back to the Breaking Out of the Medical Mindset platform. Who absolutely needs it? Who should be, after hearing this episode, who should be jumping on, signing up, and getting in front of you?

Yeah, this is perfect for any doctor, nurse, or anyone in healthcare, uh, any healthcare professional who feels stuck, who feels like they are not as happy as they wish they were, who wants tomorrow to be different from today, who wants more hope, who wants just new ways to think, who wants to realize and learn things they don't even know they don't know. We don't know what we don't know. And when you know better, you do better, is what Oprah says. And I believe that. And so many— the 30 breakthroughs in the course are all things that I didn't know I didn't know. All things that I learned that literally changed my life one step at a time. So I think anyone who— there's many, many other platforms out there to invest your money, to join groups, but this really is a platform to change how you think. The mantra I say throughout the entire course is, if you want to change your life, you have to change your mind. And changing your mind means you have to make a decision yourself. Change means you have to do something different from what you've already done, and mind means you have to make a different suggestion, a different choice, a different solution. And, uh, that is what Breaking Out of the Mindset serves to help people do. It serves to help you think differently and see different possibilities.

So my last question is a little bit playful. Do you think that if medical students— or those thinking about going to medical school took your course, that they would decide not to go into medicine? That they would just— 'cause you have that—

So nothing in the course is anti-medicine in any way.

Right, and I'm not suggesting that, but my question would be, 'cause you get stuck in that model, you get stuck in that box, and then finally, you're like, no, that's not gonna happen to me, I'll be fine, I'm gonna be able to buck the trend, I'm gonna have influence, I'm gonna change the system, right? We all have that in all of our industries. And I know I've hit the wall, so many times in mine, especially when I do the integrative mind-body stuff and I'm leaning into functional medicine. But what therapist is doing any of that? And it's very few of us. So I'm like now dancing in other weddings, you know, so to speak. So I'm wondering like if people, you know, I guess maybe it's not, you know, as, as harsh as I— it wasn't as harsh as I wanted to sound. But do you think there are people who will be like, oh, I have this idea of what the medical world's going to be, and then they get into the real world like you did and many other colleagues, and they're like, oh crap, like, this is why you created this. If they were taking it in graduate school, if they were taking it before they decided, do you think there would be a very different trajectory earlier on? Or someone might say, do you know what, wow, I don't want to get stuck there.

So I'm going to say something that no doctor will say because it's the medical mindset. I don't know. I, I really have no idea. Uh, I don't think it's an appropriate thing for medical students because I do think that is a time, if you want to succeed, that you need to have narrow focus. And not be expanding these other things. I almost think it might be confusing because you don't have the bandwidth for all the knowledge and experience you're gaining right now.

I—

it's perfect for people who are out of training a few years out, have sort of caught up to all those things they needed to catch up with, and now want to expand their life and live their dream. That is where this is perfect, from 3 years out to 30 years out.

This is— this is— that's the red carpet. If you meet that criteria, this is exactly— and where do they find it?

Uh, on the web, uh, www.boommindset.com. That's B-O-O-M-M-I-N-D-S-E-T.com. And, uh, you can sign up. The, the weekly letter is free and the course is available there too.

Awesome. So guys, anybody knows anybody that could be in this position to, uh, benefit from this course? Um, I'm sure there's so many other wonderful topics that we can get into. Just this whole mindset of just self-care and all the other aspects that we forget about is, is always important to review. But again, thank you so much.

Thank you for this opportunity. This was great. Cool.

Thanks.

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