Ep. 144-The Real Challenges of Entrepreneurship with Hydroflask Founder Capt. Travis Rosbach

¡Hola! Today's guest is Captain Travis Rosbach, who is the founder and inventor of the Hydro Flask, the world's most used water bottle. And before he did that and sold that business, he was a master scuba diver. He was a captain of a 50-ton US Merchant Marine boat. He was a pilot for commercial airlines and has become a Reiki and yoga instructor. This is a human being who has found his passion, his purpose, his mission, who would much rather be spending time in a scuba suit than a dress suit, all while creating a business that sold for over $210 million and started off with only an $11,000 investment. So Travis, welcome and thanks for hanging out with us today. All right, guys. So as promised, hanging out with Captain Travis. So I don't know how many people actually call you like, like, do people who like know you, like, like identify you as like Captain? Is it just like, hey, Travis, like, what, like, what do you love? Like just naturally going by at this point in your life?

I'll take it all. You'll take it all. Yeah. The people like I would say family and friends that know me the best call me Trav. Captain is kind of— it's also kind of like a nickname, but it, you know, not a— not like in an admiring way, but just in like a nickname way, you know, like, yeah, because you're all right.

Yoga master and Reiki and right.

We—

I think this is the interesting thing about the entrepreneurial journey. And as we were talking before, the show of just the development of mindset and psychology of being an entrepreneur, the entrepreneurial mindset, is all the different roles and all the different things that we have to play at different stages in our career. And, you know, you were telling me a little bit about like, you know, the time of being with Hydro Flask, right? Everybody, you all heard the intro, he's the co-founder and co-creator of Hydro Flask. And right there, it's such a cool product and had such a relative influence. You know, people got into like, now I want to have this clean, healthy drinking portable thing with me. And right, it spawned all these other knockoffs. And as you and I were joking about that, but the backside, I guess the true story, the shadow, the dark side of entrepreneurial life is something that I'm really glad that you and I are going to get to talk about for a little bit. And all the wins as well, and the highlights and all the journey of positivity. But I don't think anybody really does really talk about like the really dark nitty-gritty life struggles, the stress, the despair. I mean, like, my clients are shocked that as a therapist that like, yes, I have depression. Yes, I have anxiety. Yes, I'm a divorced marriage and family therapist who's really good at what I do. So right, but I own that. And I've claimed that as part of my healing and leveraged it versus having it something be a shame product. So let's, let's jump in. I mean, obviously, you had this company, you sold it, you, you built it, you co-built it, you sold it. And you get to live a life that you wanted to choose to live. But let's talk a little bit about the things that you noticed that you were missing and struggling with while building this really cool company.

Wow, Jason Wasser. Yeah, boy, you did. Jumped right into the deep end.

I mean, you know.

Yeah, there you go.

You're a scuba master. You can handle the deep end, right?

If I just got my feet wet, I'd be a little pissy. The fact that we went headfirst, that's awesome. I think that one of the biggest things that comes to mind is I lost a lot of friends and a lot of free time to spend out amongst, you know, humans, out amongst the general population, population at large, really. There were no more Friday nights, no more Saturday nights, no more barbecues, no more holidays, no more family get-togethers. And if I was at the family get-togethers, it was, you know, I was not, you know, Travis's body was there, and Travis probably got through fairly okay in speaking, but I was still always working on tomorrow's deadline or tomorrow's big question today. And so therefore, I wasn't ever really present. You know, my, my partner, my girlfriend at the time, she, she kept leaving every time it would get difficult and rough. She would just kind of run away to Hawaii or wherever she'd run away to and had multiple employees. I had one employee who quit. And she fired everybody before she quit. And then she stole all of my money, all of the money that was left. And I walked into a warehouse of 40,000 rusted and potentially rusted and non-insulated bottles. And I was literally the only one there with $0 to buy food. And I was starting to get hangry, you know. And so there was a lot of a lot of sacrifice, you know, like it was, it was, it was difficult, but at the same time, I don't want to make that sacrifice sound all terrible because I think there's a part of me that— and Jason, you probably will want to help me get this through this— but like there was a part of that that I actually kind of enjoy. Like I enjoy the struggle. I don't mind having difficult T's happen on a regular basis because, well, that's why I'm here for therapy session with you. Why, why in the hell would I enjoy that? What was the sadistic part of me? And I— and part of that I, I've come to believe is scuba diving, people can die. You know, it doesn't happen very often, but there are deaths. And just being around boating and water and the Caribbean and Alcohol. There's death, a lot of death, shootings, stabbings, death. Airplanes, engines go out. I flew through the Bermuda Triangle. All my electronics, all my instruments went out. Like, I have thought I was going to auger in more times than I can probably count. And so when it comes to business, yeah, I didn't go to the kegger on Friday night, but everybody's still alive and we figured out which color purple we're going to launch on Tuesday.

So it's interesting, because the nitty-gritty of that is, is two things that I'm kind of pulling from this. So first is resilience. And the second is pressure. And I think that those two go hand in hand. And when we're talking about anything in life, right, right, as a, as a therapist, who, whether I'm working with families or teens or couples or college students or young professionals or entrepreneurs, it's, I think those two things of like understanding that pressure, right, we know that whole thing of pressure forms, right, the, the diamond and all the other wonderful crystals and stuff like that. But the metaphor usually is with the diamond. But the resilience of knowing that this too shall pass mindset, and this is what's going to form and forge me into something more powerful. Where, where did you start noticing that you have that even when there was a lot of pain? Even though, like you said, like, I walked into this warehouse and I'm angry and all the money's gone and this— but knowing that there was a part of you, whether it was smacking you in the face or just a still small voice, that told you you were going to be okay and it was going to all work out?

Yeah, because there is, there is that, uh, haha, fuck you, watch this, you know. But then I turn around like, oh, you just said that to yourself, dude. Like, no one's here listening. Nobody's here.

Nobody knows.

Um, but isn't that it?

Isn't that the key though?

It is, it is. And I think that that probably came when I was quite young. I had a very sort of— I say the word abusive stepdad. He was just— he was all messed up from Vietnam. He had Agent Orange and alcohol and drugs, and, and he was a product of the system, right? He was a product of the Vietnam era, and he was a horrible stepdad. And I remember from 5 to 12, I mean, it was just— it was awful living with him. And I knew, I always had in the back of my mind that as bad as it was, that wasn't me. My real life was outside of this circumstance. This 3 AM, he, he comes home drunk and high from the bars and he grabs me out of bed and throws me out back to rake leaves because some of the leaves had fallen in, in the wintertime. It was snow and ice. Like, this would happen on a regular basis. But I, I always I remember out there raking, thinking, yeah, but this isn't like— this isn't Travis. Like, I am not this. And, um, yeah, I think that, um, I think that helped a lot in the entrepreneurial phases too.

If everybody— if we stop the episode right here and people just took that lesson of separating themselves from the experience that's happening to them. This isn't a definition of me. This isn't because of me. This isn't about me. I think like the book The Four Agreements, which I think everybody— for $9.99 or whatever it is, whenever Amazon throws it on sale, everybody should get that book. It's, you know, an hour and a half read at max. But that idea of like anything that anybody does really has nothing to do with you. If we can internalize that, there'll be so much more freedom. And the fact that you predisposed, figure that out at such an early age is a powerful, is a powerful tool. So like, where, where did you see that? Like, as you evolved, like socially, peer pressure, even starting the business, getting the business idea, where did that also start kicking in and other aspects of your life?

Well, I think a lot of another big part of my life has been I've— I'm very inquisitive. I love to learn. I love to travel. I love to meet new experiences and new people. And I, at a very young age, you know, I, I found myself on the far side of the world in countries where, oh, you guys don't speak the same language I speak. I speak American. No, you speak English. Oh, I speak English. Yeah, well, nobody else does. Shoot. Now what do I do? Yeah, like, 18, 19, 20 years old, I find myself in this situation and I realize like nobody really gives a fuck. Nobody really cares about you. Nobody really cares what you're doing. People are going to help a lot of very friendly— most people, I would say 99.99% are good. It's just the bad ones that get the most press and make the biggest scene. So everybody looks at them. But most people are good by nature, I believe. And yet nobody really is going to be there to, you know, judge you or— and those judgments aren't going to last forever. They're just going to last the 15 minutes that you spilled your coffee in the coffee shop. And even still, they're not going to really judge you because they're, they're more concerned about themselves. So I think, you know, kind of a hybrid of like, I know who I am and I'm not this. I'm different from this. I know myself has been, has been good, and I know that I can get through these situations. Like, I'm not trying to impress anybody. I'm just trying to just do more and do better and do cooler than this morning.

Yeah, what's that— was that line from Ted Lasso? It's like, be a goldfish, because the goldfish has like a 10-second memory type of thing. So many, so many good nuggets. The 50 First Dates, right? Yeah, right, right. Hi. All right, that's a—

I always thought that'd be a lot of like— I think like just to date Drew for a week in that circumstance would be pretty interesting, but I'd be done after like probably, probably a week at the most, right? Yeah, that's a very more—

that's a different therapy, that's a different therapy conversation. But right, because there's so many of these perspectives that we carry in each aspect of our life. So, right, you're coming up with this product, right? And obviously you were passionate about water and nature and environment, and this idea came to you. And I have this all the time. My brother-in-law is a product engineer, and I threw this idea out to him the other day, and I'm like, at first, like, oh my gosh, this is an amazing idea of a product. And then he's like, well, people aren't going to want to buy this. I'm like, what do you mean? And I'm like, but it's a positive thing. It'll help save lives. He's like, no, people don't want to admit that they would even need that.

Uh-huh. Yeah.

And I'm like, oh crap. And then we looked up and there's like 3 or 4 other ones out there already on Amazon. But it really wasn't, you know, whatever it is, obviously there's always competing things. But he's like, but the psychology behind it is the most important thing of like, why would someone admit that they might even need this type of thing, even though it was a positive life-saving thing for somebody that they would care about? So I'm wondering, like, as you were thinking about, right, as you guys were creating this idea of Hydroflex, I mean, there was obviously a mission and there was obviously a, a core value-based purpose for creating this product. And, and there was a part of you that was invested in that, obviously.

Yeah. Well, and Jason, let's back up a little bit. Like, I want to commend you for even talking to your— talking to your homie about that and, and taking that into confidant, you know, taking that in with confidence to a confidant and, and trying to, you know, see what would happen. A lot of people don't even take that step to check. And I look at that as like an exercise that you did. Like, you're now you're now that one exercise stronger. So the next time that you have an idea and it comes and you go to him and he's like, mm, getting closer, buddy. Oh, hey, cool. Like you moved up a rung. Um, and then, you know, maybe 175 times from now he'll say, grand slam, dude, you nailed it. So I see that as practice. Like you just moved up a level a little bit, you know? Makes sense. That's cool. When Hydro Flask came, man, it just, it just hit me in the back of the head and it was a little bit of need. I needed water. I was thirsty. I needed a water bottle that wasn't single use. It was a— and it was a little bit of just timing. Like the shelves were empty. The guy said nobody else is doing this. And it was a little bit of preparation. In the sense that I'd owned businesses before. But I don't know if it was sort of collective consciousness or collective group unconsciousness or collective group consciousness, or if it was just, you know, some sort of divinity thing. I don't honestly know what it was. But when it came in, it came in dang near word perfect. And by the time we got to the stage of having prototypes and just going out amongst, you know, the locals in Hawaii, because we were living in Hawaii at the time, just to get the photographs of the first samples. Like, people were stoked. Like, they could not believe that this hadn't already happened. Like, I still can't believe that nobody else hadn't done that, right?

This is like the— or this is like when Jack Johnson— like, it's funny, I'm like equating to this to like the first time you hear Jack Johnson. Like, of course, another Hawaii, right? It's like, how come I didn't even know? I, I missed this type of— like, how did this music not exist before in my life?

Yeah, I— yeah, yeah, he used to record next door to some friends of ours, um, and then his parents lived right around the corner. Um, that's a great analogy. I love that analogy.

I didn't even know I was missing this.

Yeah, I love those moments where you're like, wait, other people knew this but nobody told me? Like, where are all my friends? Where are all Like, I thought I had good friends, but nobody told me about this.

What?

Agreed.

Yeah. So this idea is evolving and it came out of a passion that, right, again, like you knew that there was a problem that needed to be solved. And it's funny because whenever I talk to people about this, I've been very mindful of just the environment and obviously water quality. And when you were talking about Agent Orange and knowing that there's a certain company out there that uses pesticides, that they're literally half an ingredient shy of being the same ingredients for Agent Orange that are put in our crops and our food and even dripping into our organic food products. And people can Google that and figure out what that name is of that company, right? People are like, oh, but it's, you know, but I have to carry this thing around with me. And what, like, how did you start getting by some of the— I don't want to call them complaints, but there is some type of like simplicity to It's a product and you have to carry it around. It either has to fit in a person's purse or they have to be willing to carry it. But what was— what did you find some of the struggles to like kind of— I mean, obviously there were the people who were all in because they're environmentally conscious, but the people that really made it something bigger than what it just was, what did you find that were some of the difficulties that you had to get past beyond just creating the product but getting people into that mindset of using this product?

Well, I That's a great question. I don't know that I've been asked that question. I, I think that the, the physical, the psychological and physical benefits of hydration outweighed any of the negative aspects of carrying around a 75-pound metal piece of, you know, of, of everyday carry item and So I don't know that I really got a lot of that feedback that, oh, why is it, you know, and we did get, you know, why is it so big? And, you know, do you make it smaller? And now it's too small. Can you make an in-between size? And so we did, you know, I mean, we, you know, there's everything from 10 ounces to 64 ounce and a gallon and on and on. And so there, there's a size that can kind of fit everybody. The biggest, I would say, sort of tongue-in-cheek complaints that we got is that it worked too well and people weren't accustomed to it. Like living in Bend, having Mount Bachelor so close, people would come in quite upset and very seriously upset that they would put in hot coffee in the morning, go ski all day, get back to their car, pick up a bottle, take their gloves off, pick up a bottle. The bottle's freezing cold. So they chug it and oh gosh, they just burned the heck out of their esophagus and mouth. And I think that that was actually kind of more of the— like, we had to overcome that more than anything else. And it works too good.

Wait, it actually delivers as promised and above and beyond?

How dare you? Exactly. Yeah, right, right.

Well, is that— what does that tell you? It's interesting because as a therapist, people come to me and this is so— I think this is such a psychological psychological factor. This is so cool that you brought that up, that when I have to put in my intake forms that you might have an emotional experience during or after our session, and I want you to prepare for that, even though you know you're coming to therapy, but that I had to put it into my intake form. They're like, Jason, I just like, after our session, like, I went home and like, I got really sad, or I started crying, or we did this neuro-emotional technique thing which released all this stuff that I didn't even know was in my nervous system. And like, I couldn't eat for a day because I was just so over— and well, we're, yeah, we're shaking up the cobwebs and breaking up the, you know, the clumps of schmutz. So, but like, people are like, well, but that's— I don't like how that felt. And, but that's what we're here to do is so you can get comfortable and confident around that. So it's, it's interesting that you're saying that, that your product worked too well. And that was the the complaints.

And that was— yeah, it was always— I never quite knew how to take it either, because like part of me would like— I'd laugh like, 'Haha, great, awesome!' Like, I'm thinking, 'Awesome, like thank you for giving me that positive feedback.' And then they would be like, 'Why are you laughing at me?' Like, 'Oh shoot, I'm not laughing at you. Like, I'm excited. I— that was a happy chuckle.' And, um, And so I always kind of wondered about those people, like, you know, where, where do they go from there? Like, do they just kind of not ever drink out of them ever again? Do they go back to their old ways or do they become, you know, like a later adapter or adopter or what happened to those people? But my, my main purpose was always to have a liquid that was the same temperature going in as coming out even later. And I wasn't necessarily trying to keep ice cold water icy, but I also wasn't trying to keep hot coffee hot. I was just trying to put in X degrees and then get out X minus a very tiny, tiny little bit degree climbing up to the top of mountains in the wintertime. I want water, I want liquid. With plastic bottles, I would have ice or I'd have to put them inside my jacket or put them inside my, you know, close to my body at night in sleeping bags just so that our water wouldn't freeze. I don't want to sleep with water bottles. And so I— but I want to drink water. Same thing with the coffee. Like, if I know that I like the coffee this temperature, I'm going to put it in as close to that temperature as possible. And I want to get it out about that temperature. So yeah. And then, yeah, then nowadays, like, everything seems to be double-walled vacuum insulated anyway. So it's almost like we forgot that there used to be single wall, right? Right.

And that's the whole thermos idea back in the day that we all grew up on, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm interested— so I'm looking at, like, you know, just knowing the things that you've done and accomplished, and, you know, you're still— we're still on that path, but there's a lot of experiential things, right? It's, it's, it's a lot about, you know, like scuba and Captain and, and now the business and, and Reiki and yoga. I mean, number one, like, all those— I mean, it makes sense. Like, if you're a nature guy and, you know, a little bit on leaning the hippie-dippy spiritual edge, then like those things might trickle in. But to go all in and now like go from this like entrepreneurial space to yoga and Reiki, was that something you were already doing through the, through the business journeys when you were already doing that when you were a captain? Or is this something that came, uh, once you already were out of the company? Like, how did that evolve for you?

Well, yeah, that's, that's actually interesting because, um, now that I'm kind of putting it together, when I was— I started working out in the gym when I was in high school, and I worked out quite a bit. I worked out in weight training class, and then after school I'd go to the gym and I'd work out again. And I was, I was fairly big. I was fairly pumped and ripped in these, you know, 18-year-old physique, right? And so when I become a I became a commercial airline pilot, and I found that there was just a lot of stress and a lot of pressure and a lot of, like, a lot of physical demand on it too, you know, like, that I had never really thought of before, um, throwing bags and, and pulling the yoke and, and fighting, you know, an airplane. So I started going back to the gym and found that, like, this thing yoga was going on. And I remember I took one class, I was like, oh, this dumb, but man, the women are just beautiful, you know, like, it's a good incentive. Yeah, it was a good reason to wake up at 5 o'clock in the morning. So I did a little bit of that in, in Saint Croix, and then, um, completely didn't even think about it at all. And then later with Hydro Flask, um, somebody I think quite honestly told me that like I need to look into yoga because like I was a bit fried and I found Bikram and I went down and hated it, but I loved— I saw it as like, like somebody was challenging me, like, you can't do this. Oh yeah, watch this. And so I did. I'd go to Bikram a bit and then we started kind of learning more about who he as a human is. And I thought, you know, I don't really want to financially support that. And then some of the people associated with it were not to my liking.

Sure.

So I would— so I stopped and I completely forgot about yoga. I had no interest in it whatsoever. No, no thought of it, really. And then after I sold Hydro Flask, about probably 8 or 9 months later, I was standing in my living room and I got hit and it like came down and hit me and I fell down and I woke up and like my tongue was different, like my mouth, my taste buds were different, my, my like desires and my vocabulary and everything was just different. Like even colors looked different. It was a very odd thing. And all I really wanted to do was meditate. And I started doing like Kundalini type exercises, and I didn't even know what that meant. I had no idea the word—

it came innately through.

Yeah, and I had no idea what was going on. I, you know, sort of just so happened to be at this retreat, and they're like, oh yeah, there's a Sikh here and there's a Kundalini woman here, and they're going to do a Kundalini class. I was like, I, I feel like there's something there. I don't even know what that means. Um, but the Sikh and I made eye contact, and he like basically told me through telepathy, like, you're gonna show up tomorrow.

Well, you were seeking him, so, you know.

Yeah, evidently. And he's— he— seek and you shall get a seat. So I showed up, and, and I started— they— we start doing the class, and I, and I, and I, I was like, I freaked out. I was like, whoa, dude, like, how do you know what I'm doing in my house? And he's like, you need to teach. I said, no, no, today is my first day. And then the second day was the same thing. This woman was teaching it, and I'm like, these are the things that I do just naturally, just for fun in the morning. For some reason, at 4 o'clock, I wake up and I do this. You need to teach. No, come on, this is my second time. Well, I ended up in Bali at a Kundalini class, and again, I kind of blackout Open my eyes, there's a woman standing on top of me looking over me, and the first thing she says is, "You need to teach." Wow. Oh, come on. And so, um, I like— it was a wild ride. But end up in Santa Cruz, and I'm just cruising, just chilling. We went down to Esalen, just hanging out, doing our thing. And next thing I know, I like got a phone call, and this woman's like, "Yeah, we got room for you. Come on over for the Kundalini teacher." training. Cool. Like, did I call you? And she's like, yeah, I think so. I think I got a message from you. So we turned and went over to Sedona, and next thing I know, I'm a Kundalini yoga instructor. That's amazing.

I was just in Sedona for the first time a few months ago for— oh yeah. Oh man. Yeah, yeah. I didn't, I didn't get the vortex hit like everybody else said. I was really disappointed with that, actually. I mean, it's gorgeous and I love it, but I didn't get that. I didn't get that vortex, uh, energetic. Yeah, I gotta realign. Boulder, I get it. I get it in Boulder, Colorado when I'm out there.

A lot of the locals in Sedona said that the vortex actually left or moved and it's not there anymore. It's— and but like the locals aren't supposed to talk about that because, hey, please come, please come.

But it's a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful place. Everybody should really go check it out. It's an hour, hour and a half from Phoenix or in Scottsdale. But Yeah, that's— it's so interesting how you're saying that. One of the— how I just mentioned Boulder, but my connection to when I first started going out to Boulder is within the span of a month, 3 different people mentioned Boulder, Colorado to me. And then it turned out that when I went out there to visit, I got connected to— there's a really hippie-dippie Jewish community, as everything is relatively either hippie-dippie or very, very yuppie. It goes both ways in Boulder. And it turns out like I got you know, to meet this person that's out there. And as it turned out, he was originally also from Scranton, Pennsylvania, where I was born when my family moved when I was 1. But both sides of my parents are from there. My dad taught this guy how to swim when he was a kid. And subsequently, this has become one of my best friends. So even though he's— right. So of course, of all things, and this has become a very close confidant, vulnerable, you know, we get very deep and vulnerable with each other. But of all the many reasons why, like, the messages, these things show up for us, and, and maybe this is part of like, you know, the resilience and going on this journey and figuring things out, and we don't have to have it all figured out, is we are going to attract— and I don't mean this like necessarily in the Law of Attraction way, but we do know innately what we need, and we res— we, we kind of in a way repel willingly, from not just surrendering to that gravitational, emotional, spiritual pull. And I'm not talking about like woo-woo and non-scientific and whatever, but like knowing our innate wisdom and trusting that. And it sounds like a lot of that did happen for you.

Yeah, yeah. I had the same sort of thing happen with Boulder too, where it's like, you need to go to Boulder. Yeah, okay, thank you. You need to go to— okay, thank you. Hey, the Hanuman Festival is going on in Boulder. You want to go? Okay. So I ended up, I think it was even the first one, I can't remember. But yeah, Boulder, interesting place. I think that, I think a lot of people hear word-perfect things to do, but then the little consciousness kicks in and starts to chatter and says, yeah, but you couldn't do that because, yeah, not you. Well, but you're the one that received the message. It is for you. It is for you. Go do what you just received that message to do.

Correct.

Correct.

Especially in the entrepreneurial space though, right? Because, you know, you and I are very familiar with the conscious capitalism, I guess I would consider, you know, your company as a consciously capital, right? Business because it was doing something that was environmentally friendly and sustainable and all those things. But, and I've, and I've interviewed Howard Behar from Wasser from Starbucks, who's a big— one of the big leaders and founders of conscious capitalism and such a lovely, lovely human being. And as you were talking, I'm like, where's the higher conscious capitalism? Like, just, right, those of us that are playing in the mindfulness and the yogi and the healing and the integrative alternative medicine, functional medicine, and then also doing this and finding that balance, not just like, okay, great, there should be what Whole Foods originally was. You know, local sustainable, let's support our local things before, you know, Amazon bought it. But taking these ideas of our passions of like knowing that you need to teach and need to lead in a healthy way that's gonna be good for all and having a product to support that or separate from that, but like to allow you to get there. I think that's like so cool because like how much of your time now, like what is your— I mean, I know you're about to go to Mexico, but is that vacation? Is that your work-play? Is that, I'm going to teach and I'm going to guide? Like, what does your life look like now? Because it sounds like this product— and I know you have your, your company, uh, Tumulo as well— how did that all— like, where did that lead you to be where you now have this place where you can be more in fulfillment and on purpose more consistently?

Well, I— after After Hydro Flask, the, the biggest thing I really got was the yoga. Like, that was— the money came, and the money wasn't nearly as much as people would anticipate or expect or hope. Um, but what I really got was the yoga. I mean, that's what really stuck with me, is that not only did I pick up that Capitalistic Blueprint and Game Plan— like, I, I received a copy of the Capitalistic How to Succeed in Business this, you know, like it's a, it's a, it's not even a binder. Like it's a, probably a filing cabinet. It's like, I envision it as being a lot of paperwork. Um, so that's, those are kind of like my, those are kind of my two things that I took away was like How to Win in Capitalism and then also the, the yoga. And it's ironic because I, I didn't ever set out doing Hydro Flask for money. I never thought about the money side of it. I always thought worst case scenario, we pay $5.50 a bottle, we sell it for $10. I make a little bit of money and I use that money to fund my next plane ticket to go move back home to the Virgin Islands and go back and get on the dive boat and go be the dive master again. So I never had it in my mind, right?

It was a leverageable product. It wasn't this like bio product.

Yeah, no, I was thirsty and that was as far as I thought. Well, now I have $3,000 or net. First I had $1,500. Okay, now what am I going to do? Now I have $3,000. What am I going to do now? I have $40,000. What I mean, now we're doing $40,000 a month. What are we going to do? And then about 5 years after having, you know, retired and having spent and invested my money extremely intelligently, or at least so I thought, uh, my financial advisor took everything away from me and he stole it. And he went off and he, um, he bought a farm down in La Pine. And, um, so, and, you know, and this was a guy who, he was like a big grandfatherly figure to me when I had the, um, fence company. He was a client and he was like a friend and He was a confidant and he was my advisor and he worked for the big American bank. And then he worked for the big American bank's financial arm that has two letters that are Mike Lima. And then next thing I know, like my grandfatherly friend guy took all of my money and left me sleeping on my trampoline and he went off and he fulfilled the dream that I was funding for myself, like I was starting a new chapter. And so, like, being homeless after Hydro Flask, it was, it was odd because again, I like, I know this capitalistic playbook, it's in the safe and he didn't steal that safe because it's in my mind and he can't get that. You can't take the yoga from me. But man, I like, I got to find food, you know, like it's getting wintertime's coming and I'm sleeping outdoors again.

So that go back to that resilience, right? I mean, if you, I mean, this was another pressure point. I mean, the fact that like this trusted advisor, this loved one did this. I mean, you started off a little bit ago with saying like 99% of you believe that humanity is good.

That might be a bit high. I, I, I know, I know.

I'm closer to that.

Well, let's pray to Prince Bullet at 80/20.

Okay, final. I'll still think that's good. That's fair. So, right. And I know my predisposition, right? I'm a people person. Hopefully, as a therapist, you would think, right? So, but I also know that like how easy it is to be disappointed and burned and have that bridge really be not just destroyed, but like blown up in front of you. And that hurts like a motherfucker. And like how you know, to want to move into a forward direction versus going into victim mentality. This sucks. This motherfucker took everything. What am I going to do? And I think you really did describe it really well. Like the filing cabinet is there, which is— it's kind of a very Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning mindset. I don't know if you've read that book.

I have.

Right. Right.

And that's the whole thing of like, right, they can't take away the Bigfoot, which is a part of that book that a lot of people missed. I'm sorry, but keep going.

Yeah. No, but I think that's really like— I think this is like what I want people really hearing. From our conversation. I mean, yeah, it's super cool that you created this amazing product. Yeah, it's super cool that you're a yogi. Yeah, it's super cool that you do Reiki and you've been all these things. But like, the nitty-gritty of like this episode is like, fucking awful shit is going to happen. I mean, that's just like, you know, Buddhism 101 is there is suffering in this world and don't try to avoid suffering, right? It's the Four Noble Truths, right? It's not avoid it, it's what are you willing to do with it when it shows up? Can you acknowledge it? And then do you learn the resiliency and the tools to transition? And you did, right? I mean, Tumulo came out of this, and I'm sure you're doing all the other things. But so like, right, again, like, so right now, so the Tumulo group is kind of, to my understanding, it's kind of like helping people do what you did.

Is that right? Exactly. And that was, you know, as I was waking up freezing cold with, you know, a frosty beard and a hungry stomach. Like, what do I really want to do? Like, I don't really want to start another company. I don't really want to have a bunch of employees. I don't really want to go back and do that. So it was in some ways like that hard reset, you know, was— there was a lot to be learned from it. And the resiliency. Yeah. Like, not only did it make me call upon all of the resiliency that I had in the bank, but like learn new resilient skills. And, and then it— and then after I was on the trampoline, it actually got even worse from there. And I can't go into that right now, but it got even worse and it got worse in a way that like I would have never imagined it could have got that bad just even 6 months before it got that bad. And so I had a guy out to look at— I had a well on my property and that was it, just a well. And that was it. Dust, dirt, trees, and a well. But the well didn't actually pump water. I, you know, I thought it was just like, oh, you just crank the handle, you drink water. No, you have to like wire it and you gotta pull electricity and you get— there's a lot of shit to do. And this guy showed up and, you know, he could kind of tell that I was not doing so hot. And so he starts telling me about how, um, you know, he went through a divorce and how, you know, he's hanging out down at the bar down the hill and, you know, he met a great lady down there and they just love getting drunk together. And like, and then she got arrested, and then he got arrested, and then— but man, they're doing great, and I should come down and hang out with them. And I thought, like, that would be easy. Yeah, like, there's a part of me that would love to do that. Like, I'd love to come down and just drown my sorrows down at the bottom of the hill with the— I mean, literally at the bottom of the hill. How figuratively, yeah, speaking is that? But But I also used him as like a major, like, oh, look, like, you're going to go, that's me.

If I can get it right.

And I exactly like how, how much time would pass between me here and me there? Not a lot.

Like, that's the ghost. That's the Ghost of Christmas Future, right?

Yes.

I had that after my divorce. I was in Whole Foods and there was someone I knew. She was an unfortunate a very unfortunately unhappy human being. And I saw them a few times, and, you know, they're a much older person, um, and I saw them in a few, you know, amongst friends, and then I saw them at Whole Foods. And I'm like, this is, this is, this is my Ghost of Hanukkah future. Yeah, this is, this is— if I don't, if I don't clean some of my, like, resentments and some of my anger up, this is what my life is going to look like. Like, everything is going to be miserable. So It's profound, because some people see it and it hits them and it smacks them across the face dozens of times in their life and they don't do anything about that.

And I think that that's the Ghost of Christmas Future, Jason Wasser. I think you said it really well. That's not something that I had ever thought about or learned about or read about or people talked about. I always, at least, had thought about and heard about and talked about the past and, oh, I made a great choice and so I had a good reward. I made a bad mistake or a bad choice and so I got a bad result. But to be able to look at somebody or something as, as a like as a negative role model because we're always taught growing up, especially in a capitalistic media-orientated society in which the United States is or was. Hopefully we're moving away from right now, whatever shit show we are. Who the hell knows what's going on today? Yeah. Um, but that— we're always taught to look up like, oh, this rich guy or this famous person or this celebrity. But it's, it's equally important to go to Walmart and shop and look at how not to be, you know. And that's something that, um, You know, when I was young, I grew up right— I mean, we were eating government cheese, but we were right literally smack dab in the middle of the hill. The top of the hill was the governor's mansion. The bottom was the railroad tracks where the homeless were. I loved hanging out, drinking 40s with the homeless. Loved it. I would learn so much from the homeless people at 14, 15, 16 years old, drinking 40s with.

They knew how to survive.

They did. It was a survival thing. And I'm traveling to the Virgin Islands, and I'm running the dive shop, and we're getting shot at. We've got knives being pulled, we've got death, we've got mayhem and chaos. And then I come back home to Salem where everything's like— it was relatively safe back then, and relatively, it was very, you know, a white suburbia, safe neighborhood. So to go back down the hill and go hang out with the homeless people, it it kind of like, those kind of like became my people because they had, we had battle wounds already and I was like 16, 17. Or I'd go to the top of the hill and I'd hang out with the rich kids and their families and their friends and I would see these nice cars and they had food in the refrigerator. I remember the first time I had a sandwich that had gone into the toaster oven. They had a toaster oven and I remember eating that sandwich and I still remember the taste of that sandwich thinking I'm gonna be rich just so I own a toaster oven. Yeah, I would love to have a toaster oven because this is—

everybody take that for granted, right? And I'm relating to your story because I grew up, right? I'm the scholarship kid. I went from public school to private school, and I remember like that first day, and like, you know, it was 1993, 1994, and like I remember one of my buddies— like, my parents are going through an awful divorce, I'm there on scholarship. I went to an inner-city school where I thought was a that was put to my head. It was a magnet school where they, you know, if you graduate, you get a scholarship to a certain program for college. But it was, you know, really an awful environment to be in otherwise. And like, all of a sudden, like, these kids are showing up in like Land Rovers in 1994, 1995. And they weren't bad kids. This is just the culture of— I mean, they weren't like bad inherently because they lived in that world. It was just like, it was so foreign of like, you know, I know where I was and I know where they're— what they're like. They don't— there was nothing that they had to suffer from at that point.

Um, and so they thought— I'm sure—

so we thought, because one of those kids lost their father at an early age, or there was other stuff that are going right. In other words, it was context to only what you know at that time. But the wisdom of like, who did I choose? Just like you, who did I choose to get the most value from? The most with the people who are gritty, the people who like really knew how to hustle and really know how to work. And like, I'm, you know, and then we take— I think they're probably like the challenges because it's interesting that we're, that we're going here, that we sometimes take pride as a badge of honor in not doing it easier, more simplicity. And I think that's the beautiful thing about entrepreneurship, right? The idea of like, from my business coach, Rick, he talks about simplicity, probability, and leverage. If you're not an expert at it, and it's going to take you exponentially more hours, it's going to cost you more in your energy and your effort, even in your financials and hiring someone else to do it, even though, well, I have free time and I don't have enough money right now, but I should do it anyway. And that, like, that's the Superman, Superwoman syndrome that I think, like, entrepreneurship helps teach us to get out of. But I think there's, like, a certain ego play at that. I think there's a certain, um, you know, we don't take that humility and we kind of have that badge of honor of, like, no, but look what I did, even though when I couldn't afford to do it. And as opposed to, like, well, what would have been the easier and simpler way, which is a little more of the entrepreneurial leverage mindset.

Right, right. Well, that's also a learning. I mean, it's nice that you have a mentor to help you, give you the entirety of the, you know, you have that snippet, you have the vision, and otherwise, you know, you don't.

And I lived that way for so long.

Exactly. And, and I did too. I lived so long not knowing what I didn't know. And then after after waking up on the trampoline thinking, well, okay, I know, I know a lot about business. You know, yesterday I knew a lot about business and I knew how businesses work. And then the next morning I wake up homeless. It's like I got a lot of learning to do. And then I realized like, oh, it's not so much learning that I have to do, it's teaching that I now need to do because I need to now help and teach others not to do what happened to me and avoid this and to do better than myself. Like, it'd be— it's, it's one thing for Travis to lose millions of dollars and then go out and make more millions of dollars. Like, I can do that. I've got the playbook. But a bigger fuck you is if Travis teaches thousands of people to go out and make millions of dollars. Now who's the fuck you? You know, now there's a bigger fuck you because I, I don't know, like, I, I kind of—

it's a— it is a mission because right? It is the No Child Left Behind, right? You don't— and I think that's kind of where the— I think this is really the dividing factor. And I see this a lot in like the therapy world specifically. Like, if I start charging more money, then I'm helping less people, as opposed to if I charge more money, then I can potentially bring in more associates and grow my practice who can help more people in the same hour that I'm seeing someone. I can have 8 other people seeing 8 other people, or eat other families, or whatever, or I can give more money to a charity or an organization that serves a population that I would never serve, but I'm really passionate about. It doesn't mean I need to be the person. And I think that's the pivot, that, right, that one thing that stuck out to me on this journey without it, like, because I never looked at it as like, I'm gonna be greedy. I actually fought against, like, that was my emotional allergy of why my practice wasn't successful until I let go of that belief of I'm gonna be become like these people who don't care, who aren't passionate. They're not mission-oriented. They're not— right, it's all about just being Miami rich fucks. Um, as I'm sure you've met some of those.

Um, one or two.

One or two, right? So, but when I meet people that are value-based driven and they're mission-driven and they're rising tide raises all ships mindset, like, that's the— and it's so hard not fight with people who don't get that. But like, there is so much resistance around making this process easier. You don't— Esther Hicks in The Law of Attraction says it like, you don't have to make yourself poor to make other people who are poor more financially stable. And you don't have to make yourself sick to help someone heal from their own sickness. And that mindset alone is like a game changer when people really get how to apply that. And it sounds like that's exactly the orientation you're trying to share in the world.

It is, it is very much so. When I was a charter jet pilot, I met a lot of billionaires, and a lot of them were really good people. I met a lot of millionaires that were not great people. I met a lot of hundred-thousandaires that, yuck, no. So I real— I know that like having money doesn't corrupt people. You know, having money doesn't make you a bad person. If you're a bad person, it's going to exasperate that bad person. If you're a good person, money— having big money can exasperate good, big things. Sure. It's unfortunate. The more I sort of studied and worked with and met successful people, we're taught that success and money can come through, you know, TV and celebrity and through those methods.

Influencer.

Influencers. A lot of that is a very dirty underground. Yeah. And it— and, and business and business people, businessmen, um, took a bad rap for years and years and years and years, but they were kind of the scapegoat or the fall guy. Like, look over here at how bad the business people are, and don't look over here at how bad the Hollywood elite are or how bad the politicians are. Please don't look at that. Look at these bad business people. Well, I saw the opposite, right?

Well, we shouldn't talk about the, the 15-minute, uh, flight ride from a certain social media influencer to go from one side of California to another, but yet, you know, straws.

Yeah, exactly right.

Or, you know, or what, you know, as much as we're into all that stuff, and I mean as much as we're into environmentalism and the, and then, and making everybody healthier.

Yeah, right. And who's on what flight log to what island doing what at that island, and we worship them and we give more money through the box office to support that, or we vote that politician into power when that money that we're supporting them with goes to nefarious activities.

Sure.

But I've— but I know that there's good. And so when the bad happens to me, like, it makes me even more want to be good and gooder, because I know that it's— I know that that's a thing also, for sure. Yeah.

And I think that's kind of like the, the reason why I created this podcast. It really came as an offshoot of the conversations I'm having with my clients from the trickle-down effect of the resources and influences I'm putting in. Because like the average therapist isn't going to go to an entrepreneur conference or isn't doing integrative and alternative medicine or functional medicine and isn't talking about diet and nutrition and mindfulness. And I mean, they might be like, you know, I joke, it's kind of like, you know, there's the now the Lululemoning of therapy, right? The mind-body stuff and the Lululemoning of the world, which is great. And I'm glad more people are getting into it. But, um, and I feel bad that I always shit on Lululemon because, I mean, they created some cool products.

He kind of has it coming himself, but the brand doesn't, which is the— right, which is the dichotomy with it, right?

That— and then everything is a dichotomy. But I think the idea of like—

good analogy, right, right?

And taking like psychology and integrative medicine and spirituality and entrepreneurship as a lens is that if you actualize greater skills and awareness in each one of those domains, life will be more purposeful, more mission-oriented, more value-based in those regards. I think like, I think those were the 4 lenses in which I saw coming from my world as a therapist that I know I needed, right? This came out of my own journey. And I realized like, wow, I'm really passionate about integrative and alternative medicine. I'm really passionate about spirituality. And I know that I avoided and was allergic to business for so many years for my own family, you know, stuff. And as I integrated that more and more, the healthier of a human being I became, the more kinder, more compassionate, the more bigger thinking I became, and the more better my therapy skills became, but also the more successful my practice has become. So I'm wondering, like, You know, is this— maybe it's not just about the world of entrepreneurship. It's not all about just being psychologically healthy, and it's not all about just being a yogi. I think that— I think maybe like what you and I are really trying to accomplish is the integration of all these parts that maybe we have— the last 20, 30 years of society has been only define yourself by one. You can be the— you can be this hippie-dippy tree-loving, you know, Jack Johnson fish fish going, you know, go to— go down to Burning Man. Or you can be Wall Street, you know, entrepreneur, Shark Tank, you know, person. Or you could be a house flipper and home hacker and, you know, all those. But you can't— but— or you can be a yogi, right? Or whatever. I mean, like, you— but you can't be all. And I think that's finally— I think— and I think that's what you and I are trying to focus on is like integrating the parts. And that's super cool.

Yeah, I agree. And, and then coming at the business from a new perspective also that is more truthful and more honest and more whole and inclusive and, um, not necessarily business as of old, not the same way that we used to do things.

Yeah, and that changed. I mean, you see those brick-and-mortar mom-and-pop shops that are just what made a Papa John's a Papa John's versus just a Papa John.

Right, right, right.

Or any of those things. I mean, that's the whole— right, with the whole Ray Kroc thing. But then you saw the nefarious stuff behind the scenes.

But yeah, yeah, it's a dichotomy. It really is. Because you have to have grit, you have to have a fuck you attitude, and yet you can't— you can't lead with that, and that can't be who you are. And that's fuck you with a heart.

That's it.

It is, you know, it's like when you fire somebody or you have to make a decision that you're going to go left versus right and more people are going to get hurt in the short term, but in the long term, more are going to benefit. You know, it's like I've never been to war, but I can imagine it's a lot like that. Like, you know, you have to sacrifice some of your troops in order to win the battle and you're going to have to sacrifice a lot in the battle in order to win the war. Yeah, but at the same time, you got to win the war for the betterment of everybody else around you, that's an even bigger piece of the pie.

Yeah, yeah, it's such a short-term, long-term debate in that, in that regards. So I know this is, you know, your good place for us to hold and pause, and definitely want to invite you back to take this further and deeper into this because there's so much more. It's a pleasure, pleasure.

My therapist— because, you know, when you get divorced, you have to have a therapist, especially with children. You have like like one gets checked out to you like at the library. Like she has no— like most people she talks to, I think, are talking about like how mean their husbands are, like how bad their boss is, or like how they couldn't get the parking spot at the cubicle or, you know, whatever, or the— at the building or whatever. Like it's like to have a therapist that understands business, Jason, I think that you would just be invaluable. For people. Like, that's incredible that you have your services available that you do, because there's no— it's a lonely— it's a lonely place to be. I can't go talk to my family. My family just sees success. Um, I can't—

they see that dichotomy. You have this on this side that could be some chaos, and this on this side, it could be really amazing. And yeah, where's the bridge between the two? And I know, and I realize that because I think that's what even limited me from my success was not embracing both sides of my— right? And cleaning that up and cleaning up those emotional allergies around that and the beliefs I carried around it. And that's why I see it. And people like, well, entrepreneurs don't need that. You know, they— what, you know, other people need you more than these entrepreneurs need you. I'm like, but well, who do you work for? Who are the people that are complaining the most about my company, my organization, my boss, my leadership team? Okay, well, you know, you know, that's what— that's like, you know, it's a joke between like, I get to call myself like if Randy Rhodes— what's her— Wendy Rhodes from Billions and Gary Vee had a love child, you know, that would be, uh, that's— I'm like, I've never seen Billions. I'm like, oh dear Lord, okay, how do I start? Okay, so they have a sports psychologist who works with all the people on the trading floor and they do all the— and then, you know, Gary Vee. Yeah, yeah, I know Gary Vee. Okay, so if they had a child So, that's kind of—

That's awesome.

But without the ethical issues that they have on the show.

So, right.

Yeah.

Without quite that lifestyle.

Right. Without that quite that lifestyle. So, yeah. So, cool. So, awesome. I know you're off to Mexico. It should be a beautiful trip. It should be enjoyable. And I very much look forward. And then if people have any questions, they want to track you down, they should go to the Tumulo Group.

Yeah. Travis@tumulo.com or I'm on LinkedIn a little bit, Travis Rosbach, R-O-S-B-A-C-H on LinkedIn. LinkedIn. And, um, yeah, like, I just want to— I just want to do cool shit. I just want to grow businesses, and I want to just see people succeed, and I want to do good.

Love it, love it. So those of you who got any value— and I'll be shocked if you got no value, like, just tell me that— like, if there's something that we're— I'm doing wrong here, let me know so we can make this better for everybody who's like, I'm just so gracious that you all are listening. And people reach out, but reach out to us. Let's hit up Travis. Tell him that, you know, if there's something you specifically got from his journey and his, you know, the mountains and the, and the valleys of his journey, and anything from this episode or any other episode, let us know. We really, really, really do appreciate that. And, and pick our brains. That's what we're here to do. And if there's any way that we can help each of anybody out there and in our own unique ways, please, please, please do that. And, uh, Travis, again, thank you so much.

Good being on here, Jason Wasser. Thank you so much.

My pleasure.