Ep.198- Transforming Wealth into an Ally w. The Wealth Conservancy

This is the You Winning Life Podcast, your number one source for mastering a positive existence. Each episode we'll be interviewing exceptional people, giving you empowering insights and guiding you to extraordinary outcomes. Learn from specialists in the worlds of integrative and natural wellness, spirituality, psychology, and entrepreneurship so you too can be winning life. Now here's your host, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified neuro-emotional technique practitioner, owner and certified entrepreneur coach Jason Wasser.

Today on the You Winning Life podcast, I'm joined by Myra Salzer and Melissa Hoyer of The Wealth Conservancy in Boulder, Colorado. They specialize in working with individuals and families navigating inherited or sudden wealth moments when money can feel less like an opportunity and more like a burden. Rather than leading with products or investments, their work begins with clarity, Values and Purpose, helping clients transform wealth into a true ally in service of their life's mission. What sets their approach apart is that they act as strategic coaches, coordinating and aligning their efforts of attorneys, accountants, estate planners, and other advisors, essentially managing the managers, so every financial decision is grounded in long-term vision rather than short-term noise. They operate exclusively on a retainer basis, accept no commissions, and maintain a singular fiduciary focus: their clients' best interests. This conversation is going to be especially relevant for young and emerging entrepreneurs, those building success now while thinking about the future, their legacy, and the deeper question of how money should actually serve. Welcome, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Winning Life Podcast. But you already know that because we're getting closer and closer to episode 200. It seems like no matter how closer, how much closer I get to it, it still seems so far away. We're only a handful of episodes and this one has been, I don't know, 7, 8 months in the works. And I really do want to welcome our two guests and Myra and Melissa of the Wealth Conservancy out in Boulder, Colorado. And we got to meet this summer, right? When you first reached out to me, you were actually right. You were the first people that I actually said like, no, no, I'm coming out there. I want to meet you, which is the first time that's ever happened in all of my podcasting career.

Magic.

Yes, you did.

So now that was, that was in August and now it's, it's December. So it's, you know, a few months later and we finally put this on, on the, on the, on the calendar. So thank you so much, first of all, for hanging out.

You're welcome. And it was great to experience your brilliance while you were here in person.

Oh, it was fun to reconnect.

Thanks. Thanks. Yeah, it was fun. We got to, got to do some neuro-emotional technique and we, we had some really, really great conversations. So first of all, I wanna start off with just some basic, uh, trade phrases since there's a lot of people coming from different backgrounds. So, right, there's wealth and there's financial planning and there's coaching and there's all these different terms that are going to be thrown around during our conversation today. So let's start just at the simplest level before we get into how this awesome company was created. Let's just first start off with some of those terms. Let's just talk about what, you know, what people think is income versus wealth. And then what is financial planning? What is a certified financial planner? Let's, you know, and then, right. Melissa, you'll talk a little bit about coaching side of things, but let's just at least start off with some of those— the jargon, the terms that people are thrown and hearing but may not know exactly precisely what they mean.

You want to start? Okay. What's a CFP and what's a broker and what's a financial advisor? I think those are terms that are thrown around that a lot of people might not really sure understand.

Gosh, there's so many things I want to talk about. The word wealth jumps to mind, but I'll start with what is a certified financial planner, a CFP®. So when I go out and I'm with a group of people for the first time and they say, what do you do? And I say, I'm a financial planner. People automatically assume that I'm an investment advisor. And actually it's so much more than that. And I view a CFP® really as someone who's kind of like an overseer of your entire financial world, making sure that the taxes, like your income taxes, your estate taxes, all the different kinds of taxes are coordinated with your estate plan, like your wills. And if you have a trust or something like that, and making sure that you're covered in case of an emergency, you have financial resilience, like using insurances and things like that. So some financial planners sell products and others don't. We happen to be fiduciary financial advisors, CFPs, and we do not sell products. So one way you can find out who you're working with is to take a look at a document called the ADV. If you're thinking about working with a financial planner, ask to look at their ADV and you can see how they're paid. And so those are—

yeah, I'll just step in. When a fiduciary is a person who has to hold their client's interests above their own, Okay, and you cannot go and find a fiduciary financial advisor at a publicly traded company like JP Morgan or Chase or— because they are legally bound to make the most for their shareholders, not their clients. So it's almost required to get a fiduciary, you'd have to have an independent financial advisor. Advisor and not a publicly traded— someone who works at a publicly traded company.

Okay, so that makes sense because, right, the— as I, as I share the story, right, you go out to a networking event, you meet someone, you know, they say they're a financial planner and they're really working for one of the big insurance companies, and the next thing you know, you have a short-term or long-term life insurance plan. And, you know, that's the end-all be-all of the game. Now, not saying that that's not important and that's not saving people's lives in many, many situations. And, you know, some of the people I know in that world went into that because, because of that being set up for a family member that actually was a life-changing experience when some negative times happened. But it's not always that case. So, right, and they have— and they're calling themselves, I guess, financial planners. So I guess, is there a difference between someone who can say they're a financial planner and someone who's a certified financial planner? Is there a difference in that, like protected terms and legal?

I think the difference is really financial advisor versus certified financial planner. Okay. Anybody can call themselves a financial advisor, but not so a certified financial planner. And you touched on something I want to expand on, which is what is wealth anyway? Right. And most people, when they think of the word wealth, they think of money, obviously. But if you go back to the Middle Ages, The root word of the word wealth comes from two words. It comes from well and health, and it means happiness and abundance. And so, we look at wealth in a really different way in as much as not just financial. And this is an analogy that my mentor, Jay Hughes, told me, but not just financial. But spiritual and emotional wealth and intellectual wealth and health wealth and community wealth. And most financial advisors are driven by the financial, but a true Certified Financial Planner who's looking at total wealth will use the finances as the foundation for all the other wealths. And that's what our focus is on, is on the spiritual, the community, the health, the intellectual, the purpose, everything that is supported by the financial resources.

Hmm.

Okay.

So, as both of you started in this industry, you both started off first in this as that training, that certification of a CFP®. And then for Melissa, that evolved. For you.

Yes, it did evolve. And actually, what Myra was just talking about is what gets me really excited, and which is why I continue to, to, to do this career, because, um, I love combining the foundation of financial stability and financial well-being with having that support all areas of life. So the reason I got involved in coaching is years ago we had a client who was turning 40 wanted to start a nonprofit, and I really wanted to support her in that. So I interviewed all these coaches to help her with that. And then I was so inspired by these coaches. After she hired someone, I called up this one coach and I said, who are you and where did you get your training? It was amazing. And, and then I went through the whole coaching program and leadership and got, got bit by that bug. And, um, and then I've combined them now. I do both a wealth coaching program called Way Into Wealth. And then I also combine that with the financial planning. So what I, you know, and what I loved most about that, the coach and the coaching, is just that it's like a different kind of relationship. It's not transactional. It's much more intimate. It's much more connected, and it's much more about creating positive change in someone's life so that they can thrive in all areas of life.

Yeah. So right then, this is, this is so relative because my training as a therapist, um, the field of marriage and family therapy is a big misnomer, right? We think people think it's just, oh, you're just, I'm going to go to you because I need to work on my relationship with my spouse, or I'm having an issue with my kid, right? And that's unfortunately the worst marketing title that we've ever gotten. And I'd love to change it, but really we're systems therapists, which is very much what I'm hearing the both of you talk about. It's taking that whole person, it's taking the relationships they have in every aspect of their life. Like you said, Myra, the spiritual side and the, right, the business and the family and all these different things. And Melissa, right, you're bringing that in with, with the coaching and looking at it from that person's mission, that purpose, person's purpose, which a lot of times they don't know. Because why would you go to a therapist to talk about that? You go to a therapist to talk about your problems. You go to a financial planner to talk about, you know, the solutions to your money or the problems you have with it, is right. Not what do you want to do with this? What's your dream? What's your mission? What have you always wanted to do? So I'm wondering, right, when this first got started, so, right, Myra, this is, in a way, this is your baby, right? So what was, what was that first thing that said, like, okay, this is what I want to do. This is where I'm, I want to bring my, my mission to the world.

Well, I have to say the ring story, because that was the, the genesis of the idea of focusing. I don't know if you've mentioned yet, but The Wealth Conservancy focuses on individuals who have inherited their wealth, not earned it, but inherited it. And a lot of them can have inherited it and then make— do something big with it in terms of business or to build business development or philanthropy or whatever. And we can coach them on that, but The whole focus for working with inheritors started in the very late '80s when I was a starving fee-only financial advisor that had a couple who made an appointment to come see me. And I thought, oh, this is great, I'm ready. And I rented the conference room and I was in my blue suit and white blouse, and I was totally excited about this potential client coming at 10:00. And I sat there at 10:00 and they didn't show up. And I sat there at 10:15 and they didn't show up. And at 10:30, they still had not come. And about 10:40, I was about to give up when they finally showed up and they sat at the table and I said, "Well, what can I do for you?" And he's like not making eye contact. And he says, the only known source of income I've ever had has just gone away and I don't know what to do. And I thought, shoot, this is not what I was hoping for.

Right.

And then I noticed that she's playing with her ring and he's still not making contact. And I didn't want to talk about him not having any income. So I asked about her ring, which was on the palm side side of her hand, the stone was. And I asked her to turn it around, and there was an enormous, enormous emerald. And I said, wow, that's, that's just amazing! And where did you get that? And she said, at Hurdle's Jewelry, which was right around the corner from my office. And I said, when did you get that? And she said, well, that's why we were late. And I, I looked at him and I looked at her like, your income's gone and you probably spent $25,000 on this ring, right? No, $60,000.

Wow.

And, and I looked at him, I said, what's wrong with this picture? You know, I mean, how can you do that when you don't have any income? He goes, oh, I know, I know, I've lived off my trust income all my life. I turned 35 last week. My trust terminated when I turned 35, and now I have $18 million. I don't know what to do with it.

Oh, wow.

He had no preparation. He had no— he was totally disengaged from this lump sum. That he was treating like it was some sort of tsunami. He had no integration with it. And, you know, they didn't tell us how to deal with that at the College for Financial Planning. So I thought, well, if he's having these challenges, there must be other inheritors who are having these challenges. And I put together a workshop for people who've inherited enough that paid work doesn't make a difference in their life. 'Cause if you don't have to make money, then you have the luxury of doing nothing or having it interfere with your life or whatever. So, that was the seminal event that created the specialty of working with people with large inheritances.

And here I am sitting here, I'm the scholarship kid, right? And there's, you know,— uh, a zeitgeist on, on TV shows, you know, right? Billions, or, um, what was the TV show a year or so ago that was about the, the family that was making, like, mirroring the Murdochs, right? Um, Succession, stuff like that, right? And, and yet these family— because it's kind of like the train wrecks that people want to watch, but there's all these other things that people don't understand, the human side. Of those who— they didn't make that choice. They weren't— they didn't choose to be born into this.

Thank you, Jason Wasser. That's exactly right. They didn't do anything to be in that position. And yet people have such harsh judgments about them. They are treated on a daily basis with people who have a hostile envy towards them, right?

Disdain sometimes.

Yeah.

Yeah. So what are some of the things that you both have learned from that? Because I think that's like, you know, this is— now we're in a society where where, you know, we do live in America, it's a capitalistic society, and there are people who don't understand that we live in a capitalistic society. And then there's people who don't understand that there's conscious capitalism, where the more— the better you do, the more opportunities you have to give back and do good, which I do love that approach. And then there's people who are like, nope, it's not— none of those things are good. None of those things, right? It's— what are some of the things that both of you have learned from, from this community of people, right? Look, which said, they may have been born into it. They don't have a choice. A lot of them, they may not have known that this was their parents' decisions and the struggles that their parents may have gone through, or their grandparents or their great-great-grandparents, right? No different than I didn't choose to be a grandson of a Holocaust survivor who escaped from a train on the way to a death camp, right? I didn't choose that to be my family's legacy in some way, right? What are some of the misnomers? What are some of the, the ahas and the beautiful insights that you have learned from maybe some of these clients over the years where there's, where people didn't necessarily see the humanity, where people didn't necessarily see how wonderfully impactful and amazing these human beings are, but never got the chance until maybe they met you and started working with both of you to bring that out into the world.

Thanks. I like that question.

Mm-hmm.

Do you wanna take the— Sure.

I'll take the, I'll start. But one of the, the insights, just like you were saying, is that they're just people like everybody else who have feelings and relationships and goals, and they're just like everybody else in, in terms of being a human. And so I think, um, you know, just having an opportunity for them to, to be who they are and have a safe place to talk about what they care about in the world and their challenges is, um, is what I enjoy doing with clients.

We provide a judgment-free zone, and, um, we understand the challenges of having a large inheritance— a large inheritance— and where an entrepreneur or wealth creator, when, when they make money, their self-worth and net worth go up at the same time. But oftentimes when an inheritor gets money, their self-worth goes down when their net worth goes up. Uh-huh. And the example with that client whose income dissipated, he's had that income from day one from his trust. And every month for 35 years, his self-esteem went down, his confidence went down so that by the time he was 35 and he had been told from day one, you never have to work a day in your life, That was his gift. And that was his— what his father was told. And that's what his grandfather was told. So he had no example of how it could be different.

I will say that, you know, I have a daughter who's— who just turned 17 and Whenever she accomplishes something at school that she's worked hard for, she is the happiest that I've ever seen her, right?

Yeah.

Just so proud of herself. And I think when you're told that you never have to work, that container that many of us just have by default of getting a career, working through relationships at your job and setting goals and and really making yourself uncomfortable. Like, a lot of us have to be really uncomfortable, right, to reach for that goal or to grow in your career or whatever it is. And you need sort of a lot of fire to do that. And when you don't have that container just built in, it, um, you know, the, the motivation to put yourself out there and to have those types of accomplishments isn't there. You have to create it yourself, really. In a lot of ways. And in my, in my research and thinking, that process of growth and accomplishment is what makes us feel fulfilled as humans and satisfied and content. Do you—

have you found that there are certain types of personalities, certain types of dispositions that have been more successful and more open, more coachable?, for both, as they showed up to both of you or to your team? Um, and what are some of those things? What are some of those traits that makes going through this process?

Yeah, I know that question is probably directed more towards you since you're the coach, but I'll give you my observation and then let you answer that. I think people with a lot of financial resources have exaggerated personalities because they can afford to just really emphasize it. So if someone tends to be a philanthropist, they can be a great philanthropist. If someone tends to be an entrepreneur, they can be a great entrepreneur. If someone tends to be a hypochondriac, they can be a fabulous hypochondriac because the money enables them to really amplify that. We've worked with, over the years, 3 Olympiads. And, you know, they had a gift. And that gift was a physical gift. And the financial resources enabled them to travel the world and do their sport and have coaches and tutors in tow. And 2 of the 3 actually medaled. Now, did they have an unfair advantage?

I don't know.

They had the drive. They worked hard. They just got that amplified portion of who they are to, to manifest. So I'll let you now answer the question, now that I rudely interrupted.

Um, I think it's remarkable the, the variety of people that I've worked with, from, you know, young men 20 years old all the way through, you know, anyone in their any age, 70s, who come to coaching, and everything in between. And I think really what it— what the key is, is someone who wants to grow and they want to— they're ready. Actually, Myra, you can talk about the stages of inherited wealth because I think when someone's in, you know, they're just kind of going along life, they're, you know, maybe in denial about their wealth or they're, you know, just not thinking about it very much, it's sort of in the background. They may not resonate with coaching at that particular time, but when they get to a point, there is a tipping point, whether it's a trust coming due or they have a child and they want to teach their child or something like that. And there's this tipping point where they're like, okay, I need to figure this out. They enter the learning and growing phase. And when you're in that moment of time and you're just ready to, to explore and to learn and to grow, then it doesn't matter. You know, the details don't matter. It's just that person at that stage is the perfect time.

Very coachable.

Very coachable.

Very cool.

Yeah, it's interesting because I see it's similar to my path, and I've tightened up the red carpet over the last couple of years where you've heard me talk about Rick Sapien, my mentor who passed away last year, and that whole thing of the core values, right, and values-based decision-making, a lot of which resonates in what you guys are doing. And the more strict I get, on the proactivity and asking particular questions as I'm potentially onboarding someone to say yes or no, if I want to work with them, not just if they want to work with me, I think that the outcomes are not only faster, but right with efficiency, but they sometimes more profound because right, that is the buy-in. It is. And, and I'm finding that it's interesting because therapy is a lot of times like, oh, who's making you go to therapy? Right. Someone's always being made, right? Whether it's a spouse, whether it's a kid, whether it's a, if it's an adult family members that they're in a fight, someone's kind of at some level twisting someone else's arm, or some major life crisis happened. Do those type of scenarios also pop up where they may not necessarily be knowing that they need this type of help, but either a life crisis has popped up or someone has heard a podcast episode or they saw something somewhere and they're like, do you know what? Maybe we should find you someone like this. And oh yeah, here's the Wealth Conservancy. Is there stuff like those type of stories where they didn't even know that they needed you? And it was kind of like an arm twist, but then it turned into something really profound and powerful?

I would hope we don't twist arms.

No, not from you, not from you. Someone else in their world.

Yeah.

Um, and do you feel like people come here?

You know, yeah, they know, they know they, they need their— they know something's missing.

Okay.

You don't know what it is. They don't know how to get it. They don't know how to put their arms around it, maybe. They don't know how to identify it, but they know something's missing, that there's a conversation they're not catching, or there's a, you know, an assumption that other people have that they don't understand, or something is amiss and they want to get it. They want to fit in. Everybody wants to fit in. Everybody wants to be part of the community. Even if they're introverts. And, um, so I think that's— that yearning is probably what's a prerequisite to becoming a client either of Way Into Wealth or the Wealth Conservancy.

Yeah.

So I'm wondering, like, great, there's people out there that, you know, it's in their financial interest to create a nonprofit or create some type of foundation.

How—

what are some of the steps that you would or maybe some of the questions that you would ask someone to help them get to like something that doesn't feel like obligatory, like, oh, I should do this. This is just a good thing I should do. And they really don't have an invested interest in it versus, you know, what questions might you ask to help them get to like, here's what I want to hone in on, focus on when I'm, when I'm bringing this to the world.

Right.

Well, I can go with that if you want.

Yeah, let's go for it.

Um, so, uh, I think. Asking questions to get down to the, the layers of the onion of what is their purpose, what is their objective in philanthropies, and what are they passionate about. And, and just peeling the layers till you get to the core of what their purpose is. And then the philanthropic organizations or the philanthropic endeavors that fit that core will manifest. I mean, it'll be— become really obvious.

Yeah, I'll add to that. I guess, you know, one of the first questions I ask in the program Way into Wealth is, what are your shoulds as a wealthy person? And so I would explore where that's coming from. And actually, purpose can be such a daunting question. I know I struggled for years trying to figure out what my purpose was. And, um, and so the Way into Wealth program is a gentle way of just sort of exploring without an agenda sort of who you are as a human, and then start to look at like, what is, you know, you know, who am I and what are these wonderful qualities that I want to bring into my financial world? And what are the ones that I just want to say thank you very time to let go or transform. And then who are you at your best with money? And then from there, like, how does that look in your life? Is it philanthropy? Is it a foundation? Is it, you know, then we start to get into like, how does that tangibly unfold in your life so that it's truly a reflection of who the human is, who the person is?

Yeah.

So would it be fair to say like because of their own a lot of times, maybe, maybe I'm wrong in this assumption and both of you will correct me, that there's something in their unique story of their own life that sometimes leads to the area that they may want to help?

Well, yeah, I think that, um, someone may or may not want to become a philanthropist or something along those lines. They may feel like they should, so they are trying it, but there's something that's not fitting. So for those— and then some people inherit philanthropy, right? They inherit a family foundation or something along those lines. So the question is, okay, yes, I'm a philanthropist, or you know what, I have this opportunity to give. Okay, well, who are you as a person? What is meaningful to you, and how will you direct those funds?

Yeah. And, and similarly, inheritors inherit and they might inherit a family foundation that they don't want. That's not their passion. And how to deal with that in coaching so that they're okay with this is not who I am. I want to start a business, or I want to be a parent, or I wanted this or that or the other. And that's, you know, where I belong, even though I inherited this business, or I inherited this family foundation, or I inherited this portfolio. That doesn't have to define the person, right?

Yeah. Well, I'm thinking about it from my perspective. My family is now a third-generation furniture business that my grandfather started. My brother and sister— my dad took it over. My brother and sister now run it. And I'm the person who chose, as the oldest, not to have anything to do with from that side of things, although, right, some coaching and consulting and some brainstorming here and there. But I'm not, you know, anywhere on any paperwork that I know of, you know. So, you know, and it's been, it's been an interesting thing of like, you know, whatever the time comes and my father's not here anymore, right? Well, you know, it's— there's people out there that may have, just like I have, they may have siblings in a family business and a sibling that may not be in the family business. And I'm thinking about like, how do I avoid any conflict? In that time to come in advance of— with whatever might be passed on, stuff that may not be passed on, may be left to a sibling and not to another sibling. And is there any stories like that where you've helped proactively navigate, or, you know, once— or maybe even once it's happened, but maybe even proactively is more important because, like, I feel like my scenario might be more common than I even think.

Yeah, right. I think it's the difference between equal and fair among siblings and helping the wealth owner, the, the wealth holder, as they're thinking about their estate plan and what is— and individualizing each of their heirs so that they can, as much as possible, mirror the individual and their personality and their needs and their wants with their assets. And I think it's really important to have a conversation about it with the beneficiary and avoiding surprises. Yeah, avoiding the tsunami that happens at death or that happens when, you know, it's just Avoiding surprises is really, really, really important. It will completely shift how a beneficiary eases into their wealth.

Yeah, because I can see, right, that's going back to those TV shows, right, Succession or whatever it is, and there's like someone who's being left out, or some sibling who's feeling like they're getting the raw end of the deal, or that all this other siblings kind of have to protect the wealth from. And, and I can see as a therapist, especially as a family therapist, how that can, you know, when relationships are probably maybe great between the siblings, how the loss of a previous generation of a parent or, you know, grandparent who's passing that on can just all of a sudden start triggering things out of the blue that were not thought about, were not planned. And people, you know, for me in my practice, and I'm pretty sure it's the same over there is talking about the things that no one wants to talk about, but talking about it in a safe and loving way. But many people don't know even where to start, where to ask, or how to even bring that forward, right? They don't even know how to, like, the presupposition, you know, I've been thinking about this thing of what might happen in 10, 15, 20 years from now. And I know it's probably not on your radar, but, and I'm not saying that I have a specific outcome or, you know, agenda, but it's a conversation we might be able to have. Most people don't have that skill set.

To do that. Yeah, it's true. And they might need a mediator or an interpreter and, um, a multi-generational advisor.

And how much of that is in-house of what you're doing?

Well, we do that. Yeah, definitely.

Yeah. What are the most common, you know, allied professionals outside of your specific company? What are the most common allied professionals that you're doing, I would say, day-to-day, week-to-week collaborations with?

I think the most frequent are estate attorneys and accountants. Um, we have a, a group of, uh, Elite Insurance. Both for property and casualty and life, that they— these are people who appreciate and can represent large portfolios, whether it's real estate portfolios or life estate portfolios. And what other advisors?

I think that's, that's it. It actually.

Yeah, well, that's why it keeps going back for me.

Philanthropic advisor we use a lot.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, and like the average person doesn't even know like a philanthropic advisor exists, right? And I, I think that's the beautiful thing about at this level of, of creativity is, is there's a niche for, for everything. And a lot of people don't even know that this could be something, right? People might be listening to this, and as you are listening to this, where whether you're in the car or your home or wherever you're listening to this and thinking like, oh, this is cool, how may I, you know, maybe I need to access this for my own life. But there might be some people listening to this being like, I wanna work in this field. And this conversation might be turning some people on to that. So, so yeah, I know we're getting close and near to the end, but from each of your perspectives, where would you say, you know, whether it's reading. Here are the books to start off with. Here are the, you know, here are some of the YouTube channels to obviously, you know, go to your website and, and find all the good stuff there. Um, but where would you say, like, here's, if you're, if you're thinking about this, not, not, you know, I want to take advantage as a someone who's inherited money and use those services in that way, but I might want to be in this field. And, you know, where, where would you suggest they start?

Yeah, that's, um, there I think I would Google or go to an AI app and start with getting a job at a family office and learning how a family office operates. So family office, for those who don't know, it's a corporate entity that takes care of a family's financial resources. So they usually either have their in-house investment advisors and managers, or they farm that out, and they either have in-house attorneys, estate attorneys, or they farm that out. They do— they can be the trustees of the family trust. They can be their trust company. And so they have a private trust company. And so if, if one wanted to understand the industry and break into it at an entry level, that's where I would probably start.

And, you know, more broadly, if someone is interested in financial planning, I would point them to the College for Financial Planning so they could see what the courses of study are in that program. And, and I highly recommend this as a career because there's just a never-ending amount of, um, specialties like you mentioned. And like, laws are always changing. Every— it's very dynamic. So I think intellectually it will keep you stimulated for your career, and I just think it makes such a difference in people's lives. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a joke. My running joke is I still use the, uh, the tip app when I'm out at restaurants. So is there, is there a, a misassumption that you need to be the most absurdly amazing mathematician to be involved in this, in this world?

I, I always use my HP 10BII calculator, so Myra's much better at doing that math, but yeah.

Well, I started engineering school when we were still on, um, slide rules.

Oh wow.

So I had to, right?

Totally analog.

So yeah, so, okay.

So that would be a good story, getting into family business. And as far as like books that, you know, I know mentors are such an important thing and we'll wrap up with, with this, but, you know, mentors are obviously wildly important. And the beautiful thing about the internet is you don't have to actually know the person in real life for them to become your mentor. And, and I know Myra, you mentioned someone who was a mentor to you early on.

And Jay Hughes. James E. Hughes Jr. You can read all his books if you're interested. He is like the godfather of family office governance, and, um, he's a dear, dear human being who really cares.

Yeah, well, this is my mentor.

Yeah, right here.

And continues to be today.

Thank you.

Um, for people looking for a mentor, I would say look for fee-only financial advisors and find ones you connect with doing your specialty and see if they'll go out for coffee with you. I think people love to mentor and talk about their careers, so I think that's a really important thing you bring up.

Awesome. And off the top of your head, a book that you think everybody should read that changed your life?

The Soul of Money by Lyn Fuss.

That was a good book.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, I'm going to pass on that recommendation or making a recommendation because, because I believe that everybody's interpretation or reception of a book can be completely different. And it's always such a letdown for me when someone I really respect and really like and everything, because, oh, you gotta read that. And I start in and I think, ew, what? No. And, and so I think, I think people just have to go with what, what draws them, what's pulling them. And, and I won't make a recommendation.

You reminded me of a really funny story. So there's, uh, the Imago therapy, which is all about relationship relationships and what you're unconsciously attracted to and how to become more aware and using those things from your family of origin that gets projected right onto what we would call attraction is really just familiarity with the positive and negative character traits of our family of origin that we project onto potential partners. And I remember through it during grad school, as you know, I had the book, you know, wasn't a textbook, it wasn't even part of our curriculum. But I remember having the Imago Therapy Getting the Love You Want book or whatever it was, sitting in my my bathroom, and it's a little whatever, but literally for a couple years, I'm gonna get to it, I'm gonna get to it, it's the bathroom reading book. Never got to it. And then years and years later into my practice, one of my clients like, Jason Wasser, I just read this book. I don't think I want to be married to my partner anymore. In fact, now reading this book, I don't even think I would have married that person in the first place. And I'm like, holy crap, this book has been sitting— literally, it's still at that time, it was still sitting probably in the stack of books That's when I finally read it. And I do agree in a way with what you were saying. I mean, I do agree with what you're saying, not in a way, is that sometimes it is based on a developmental stage of life. Something's going to reach off and smack you, right? I wasn't ready for this business finishing school program that Rick created for years. And I heard about it. My buddy was telling me about it for years. You should go, you should go. And then finally, when it finally clicked in, because I was, had a changed my mindset about what it being an entrepreneur was. Because I'm a therapist, I was a scholarship kid, I've been on my own. How am I an entrepreneur? I have one guy in one little office. How am I an entrepreneur? I'm not making 6 or 7 figures at that time. I wasn't making even 6 figures at that time. I'm an entrepreneur, right? So I, so I agree that, right, sometimes it's, it's when it's ready to pop, it shows up. So, so good. So just as we wrap up, what are, you know, I know there's, right, the, the program, right, with you, Melissa, right? I know there's a great book, Myra, that you wrote. You know, what are some of the ways that they can track those things down and what are they called so people can go out there and find them?

I think we are probably not— the Wealth Conservancy is probably not as accessible as the Way Into Wealth program. So I'll be direct about that. Um, the Way Into Wealth program, which you can find on wayintowealth.com. And, and it's an 8-session program, one-on-one with Melissa, that helps a participant integrate with their wealth. It helps them understand what is their relationship with wealth. Now that they know that, what they're— what are they going to do with that information? And maybe you can describe that a little bit better.

Oh, you said that perfectly. So it's just a process where you go through a lot of of inner exploration, visioning, and then creating a roadmap for, um, from there. So it starts with a lot of introspection, and then it ends with actually a roadmap of tangible things you can do in your life.

Awesome.

Awesome.

And as far as the Wealth Conservancy is concerned, you can certainly look us up, thewealthconservancy.com, or twcinc.org if that's easier. And It's a service that does require a commitment of, you know, we're retainer-based. We don't charge by the hour. We don't charge a percentage of assets under management. We just, we do it all for a certain retainer. And that's dependent on the complexity of a client situation. And the fee starts at $10,000 a quarter. So it's not for people with just $1 or $2 million perhaps, but, but you, you want to have at least $5 million. And I do— most of our clients have considerably more than that, right?

Which is so great because there's people out there aspirationally, right? What a great goal to hit. If they, you know, if you're listening and you already have the $1 million, your next set is, is your $5 million, right? And if you, if you don't have the million dollars yet, that's the first. And there are those advisors that help you get there too. And they're right. That's why I love books and podcasts and YouTube videos and all the wonderful things out there that is affordable and cheaper for those who are on the beginning of this journey. So yes, I think there's, right, the right fit for every developmental stage. Just knowing that this stuff exists at each stage is so profound that people don't know, which is why I'm so glad we're able to spend some time together today. So yeah, as we wrap up, yeah.

Just wants to have a conversation with us, you can book a half-hour conversation on our website at no charge.

Awesome, awesome. And if you all do that, just let them know that you came from this episode so they, so they know that you were listening and, you know, this was beneficial for all of us. So yeah, so Melissa and Myra, I really thank you. I know it took us a little bit to get here, and I'm hoping that we get to do a little bit more, maybe go deeper into some, you know, what a specific topic or specific area that we can share with everybody. But first of all, congratulations on everything that both of you have been doing and the team you're building. And yeah, it's just awesome that we got to connect and got to actually spend some time together.

And I couldn't agree more, Jason. Thank you.

Thank you.

This was fun.

Awesome. All right, y'all, we'll see you on the next episode.

All right, thank you.

Thanks for listening to the You Winning Life podcast. If you are ready to minimize your personal and professional struggles and maximize your potential, we would love it if you subscribed so you don't miss an episode. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Jason Wasser LMFT 🎗️.