Ep. 27-Joe Buchanan: Jewish Americana Musician Is Choosing To Be Chosen

This is the You Winning Life Podcast, your number one source for mastering a positive existence. Each episode, we'll be interviewing exceptional people, giving you empowering insights and guiding you to extraordinary outcomes. Learn from specialists in the worlds of integrative and natural wellness, spirituality, psychology, and entrepreneurship so you too can be winning life. Now here's your host, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified neuro-emotional technique practitioner, winner and certified entrepreneur coach Jason Wasser.

Hey everybody, welcome back to the You Winning Life podcast. I'm Jason Wasser, sitting here in my office, the Family Room Wellness Associates in Fort Lauderdale. And today's guest is my friend, Jewish Americana musician who delivers stories steeped in the struggle and triumph of the human spirit, all while praising God for the goodness in life. He's a Texas native Joe Buchanan is the host of the Emerging Artists Showcase on JewishRockRadio.com and has two albums to his name so far. His debut album, Unbroken, is filled with music that speaks to the incredible beauty of finding a home after a lifetime of searching. And his most recent album, Back from Babylon, is full of honky-tonk twang, inspiration from the Jewish Torah, and his South Texas upbringing. Joe's a spiritual seeker, song leader, storyteller, husband, and father who is on a life's mission to find his true roots and to help others connect to theirs. Joe, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks for having me. I appreciate this. This is great. It's nice to talk to you, brother.

Well, it's good to see your face. Unfortunately, not in person like we are usually accustomed to, but there's so much that I want to tackle and get into with you because, um, since I've met you, you have been one of the people who's inspired me, motivated me, and, and, and I just love sharing this time with you. And I want to have others get, you know, that connection with you through your journey and your story. So first off the bat, thanks, man. Let's talk a little bit about your backstory.

Yeah.

Growing up South Texas, what was life like for you and how has that informed who you are today?

Well, it really feels like there were, there were 3 different lives. There was life with my grandparents. There was life after My mom got married, and then there was life after April. 3 very different lives. But, you know, probably the most impactful growing up is when I lived with my grandparents until I was 6. We lived out in a— he had a home in a place called Friendswood, Texas, which is south of Houston. And then he had a ranch out in South Texas, right on the Mexican border. It was great, huge ranch. Spent a lot of time out there as a kid, grew up. Kind of one foot in the city and one foot in the river, and it was a great way to grow up. It was fantastic. That's where I really fell in love with music and really connected kind of with the outdoors and really with God. Yeah, and then my mom married my dad when I was about 6 years old, and, you know, everything sort of changed at that point. You have what seems like the world, and then suddenly the world is very different. Um, yeah, it was kind of— it was, it was wild.

So what was the biggest change for you at that point, at that 6-year-old, 7-year-old age bracket?

Right. Well, probably the biggest was confidence. Um, and I'm not putting that on, on any one person that, that changed. You know, we, we run into stuff as, as young people. We make decisions about the world because all we know is what we know, right? We only know the world that we immediately impact and that immediately impacts us because we don't have a greater real sense of our part in the world. That doesn't happen until much later on, usually in life. So, you know, I was met with a lot of "What's wrong with you?" and making mistakes and getting in trouble and just not seeming to get it right and, you know, going down bad paths and bad grades. And it was like, I mean, it was just, it was all different. At that point in my life that I was just inherently flawed and I was just really no good, not for myself, not for the world around me, and that I was much better at a distance than I was up close. I was no good up close. Keep me at a distance and I was shiny as could be. I was a good nickel, you know, but you get up close and just there was no value.

So would you describe that feeling as— from what I'm hearing from you, it sounds like a lot of guilt and a lot of shame.

Yeah, sure. Well, like I said, you only know what you impact and what you see. So they talk about kids, you know, when their parents get divorced and they think that it's somehow their fault, when of course it's not at all their fault. But they'll think that it is because that's their immediate world. And, you know, and if their parents have been mad at them or upset at them, then they start going, well, it must be because, you know, of these things. The problem is, is that you take— I think I was taking— these things were taking root in me and planting these seeds. And no matter what I was hearing or finding out, that wasn't the validation that I was finding. Do you know what I mean? That's a weird thing to say, but if you go looking for the bad and that's all you're looking for to see if it's there, you'll find it all the time. All the time. And it's so loud. I hope I'm not going too far ahead, but I will say that I think that— and this comes in later— we're surrounded by goodness. And we are just drenched in goodness. And just like fish don't think about water, we tend to not think about all the good that's around us all the time. Oh great, but that bad stuff— because it's actually not what we're used to, it's so incredibly loud that it takes over.

Well, you're talking about like the nurture versus nature paradigm a lot, right? That if we have this inherent belief that we're connected, that we have value, that we bring something to the table.

Yeah.

And we're at that developmental age where we're so impressionable, right? And we're starting to hear opposite stories or narratives about that or experience different things that, that quash that. Then we're going to start having a lot of self-doubt. So as a, as a little kid, that, that's a powerful experience to go through. And I see this day in and day out in my practice. That even adults still struggle with that from that time period. And that's most of the work that needs to be done from a therapeutic perspective is what do we need to unpackage and let go of and re-narrate that we've been carrying as if it's our own story.

Right. Yeah, and there's a lot, I think, I think there's a lot that I was seeing that I had no basis in truth. It was all what if and maybe and worry and assumptions. Because there were no solid answers, especially I think when you're dealing with folks who are toxic. There's not a great answer. That pain that they're feeling is their own, and there's no way you can understand it because they don't understand it. But you'll make it your problem and you will be at fault somehow. And that you do understand, so you own it faster. I think it's terrible.

Yeah. So that belief that you had that there's something bigger out there, that there was something good out there. Yeah. Were you at that point? Point calling that God? Were you— what was that for you at that point, that you knew that there was something out there that you connected to that allowed you to have the strength and the motivation to move forward despite the struggle?

Yeah, so that was a funny thing. Like, my grandfather and my grandmother instilled in me a very simple concept of God. It was the idea that you can see God in the world and the way the world works, and if God wants anything from you, it's to do as much good with your life as you can, right? Really simple. Like, you could— I could see the hand of a creator and just everything works too perfectly together, right? But I didn't have this, like, I didn't— I never thought that, like, God had this, like, checklist going on, like, every day of my life, right? That— but that my job as a, as a person was to just be as good as I can, do as much good as I can. And that all changed when I moved out of that house. These general ideas of God couldn't be discussed because there was no talk of religion in our home. And I never associated God with whether I was any good. But what I started being told was that I wasn't good enough for God. You know, you're inherently flawed the way you— this is what I was taught afterwards, right? I started going to all these different places with my friends. I was taught that you're inherently flawed. There's something innately wrong with you and you'll be severely punished for it. And there's only one thing you can do, and it has nothing to do with being good. And I was like, well, but I feel like my choices have to matter. They should matter. And told ultimately in the end that it really didn't, only if I did this one thing. Otherwise, I wasn't good enough for God that made the world that I can look out and go, "And look at this great place that we get to be part of. Oh, it's awesome. Oh, but I'm not good enough for this." So when you pair that with shame and guilt as a young person that you're just taking on from all these sources around you, coming up with decisions and not good enough for the creator that you believe, you know, helped coax the world into existence. Well, suddenly, why are you even here? Really? Why are you here? And those moments came, came hard and fast for me as a young person. There were a lot of times where that, that decision was right on the border, you know, of, of being made, and thankfully didn't. But there was, it was a lot of close calls. Um, there really was a lot of close calls. Um, so yeah, so that was a, that was a terrible space. Um, do you want me to get into how it changed, or do you want to—

Yeah, yeah, let's, let's—

I don't want to— well, I guess I'll tell— let me— I'll tell you the story, and then, uh, and then we'll get into the specifics that you've got. I'll give you the whole thing. So You know, those things, I finally decided, look, it's between me and God. We'll figure it out along the way, right? I've just got to keep going my own way and all this stuff. But the problem is that you scarred yourself so much as a kid with all the stuff that you took on that those scars don't go away, right? And every time something would happen in my life that seemed to validate those injuries, they would surface, come right back up, right? So all that carried into, like we talked about, carried into adulthood. All through my teenage years, I was a hot mess as a kid. Just a mess. And then one day I am outside, uh, well, I'm not— I'm working in a gaming store. We sold board games and Dungeons and Dragons. Got no customers. We had, we had a handful of customers that didn't buy anything. They would go in the back room, order pizza, and roll dice all day. They were, they were great. It was a great place to work.

And this was, and this was pre-millennials.

That's right, these were, these were Gen Xers having a nice time I had no responsibilities. Um, anyway, so, you know, in, in the store walks this lady, and I completely lost my mind. I fell madly in love. I couldn't have told you, you know, what year it was or what my name was, but I had this— there's this thing when you meet somebody like that where you're like, you can see the window closing. And I was like, I'm stuck behind this counter in this store. I can't just walk out and like follow her, and that would be weird. But I need to know who she is. I got to meet her, right? So there was a mutual friend that came up and said, "Joe, this is April. April, this is Joe, and Joe plays guitar." And I was like, "Yes, yes, I do." And I did. I had my guitar with me at the time because we didn't get any customers. You know, there's nothing to do unless you want to play role-playing games all day, which is great. We still do. But I pulled out my guitar and played her a tune. And, you know, we just really fell hard for each other. We got married shortly after. She started going with me to church. I was like, you know, I want to figure religion out. I feel like there's something here that I'm not getting, and there's something about me that I'm not getting. And so she starts going with me to these churches, but she won't sing any of the prayers. She won't say any of that. She won't do anything. She just holds my hand. And I joked with her one time. I said, I went up for communion, you know, and I said, you want me to bring you one back? And she's like, that's not how it works. It's not through osmosis. That's not how it happens, right? And this lady, This lady grabs my shirt and she's like, "We don't do takeout." Like, no, that's true. And so good. So, you know, eventually what happens is you realize in a relationship that you're the only one doing it, you know? And if you want to be a real partnership, you can't just be dragging somebody to something because they're really also compromising. Every single time. And if it's a big part of stuff, then they're getting dragged to everything. And it was, um, you know, eventually you decide that it's something that you're doing with each other or you're doing by yourself and they're with you. And, and that wasn't okay. And I also wasn't finding the answers. I was hearing the same stuff that I heard when I was a kid. So 13— we stopped going, and 13 years into our marriage, we're outside the Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC, and she She looks at me and she says, um, you know, and we're shaken, right? You can't make any sense of that. It defies logic. And she goes, I think I want to get in touch with my people's faith. And I was like, whoa, who— like, who, who's that? Who are your people? Nobody, nobody says that. And she goes, well, I'm Jewish. I was like, what? When did you get Jewish? How did that happen? And she's like, I was born Jewish. I'm like, that's not a thing. I'm like mansplaining, right? You can't be born Jewish? How's that even possible? She's like, my mom's Jewish. I said, yeah, I know your mom's Jewish, but that just makes you Jewish. And she's like, oh my God, you, you don't know how it works. It's like, nobody knows how it works. What are you talking about? That's not a thing. And she's like, Joe, that's how it works. She said, I have a Star of David necklace in my jewelry box. I was like, I know, I thought you were supportive of your mom. Like, I didn't know that she was Jewish. And she said, well our son's Jewish. And I was like, does he know that? And, and she's like, no, I don't know, but we should tell him, you know. And I, I sound like the worst husband in the world when I tell the story, but the truth is, is that we're, we're best friends. We talked all the time and still do. And I had no idea that she was Jewish because in Christianity it doesn't work like that. You're not just born into it. You— there's a transition. You accept certain things and become this. And I didn't understand the separation between culture and religion. To me, that, that's— there's— there was no— there weren't two different things, right? Being Jewish was tied to the religion in my mind. And so I was like, we can't just be born into that. But you can because you're born into that covenant, right? And so anywho, fast forward, we start— I told her, I said, look, the only thing I know is there's something about pork, but if you want to check it out, we'll— I'll go with you, you know, because she did that for me too. So I'm like, great, let's explore. And I honestly didn't think Judaism was a living religion. I had never met a Jewish— well, I met her cousins. We went to their Jewish wedding, and I still didn't know she was Jewish. I was like, why were you guys—

where were you guys living at that point?

We were living in Houston. We were living in Houston. And, um, but you know, when I grew up, I never met a Jewish person that I knew of. Never saw a synagogue because they were always— they're not on the main highway. They're off in neighborhoods, so you don't see them. And the only time they talked about the Jews was in history class for 2 weeks. That was it. There was no talk of Judaism, right? So anyway, we start looking into it and we meet this rabbi. We walk into the synagogue and I said, you know, my name is, my name is Joe, this is my wife April and son Nathan, they're Jewish, I'm not, and we don't know what that means. And he goes, he goes, do you want me to like distill Judaism for you? And I said, yeah, that would be great, not realizing what a deep thing, ask that is, right? So here, so here's what he told me that really forms the basis for everything else beyond this. He said, look, there's one God, and there's nothing wrong with you. You're okay. You're a-okay. You're loved by your Creator exactly as you are, and you don't have to be Jewish or anything else to be loved by God because you're part of creation. You're part of the beauty of creation, and, and that's a good thing. He said you don't have to do good because of some fear of punishment or a reward later on. The good you bring in the world is the reward. You brought more it's a good end, and this life is the one that matters. Who cares what happens next? This is the gift right now that you've been given. You've got to do as much as you can with it. I was like, what? Like, that made so much sense. And I think sometimes you can hear something over and over and over again, but then there's that moment where it just pierces right through. And it was like 30 years of therapy at once, you know, and it changed. How I looked at the world, how I looked at myself, how I looked at other people that I was spending time with. Um, and then, yeah, dove into conversion. April and Nate did it with me, and then the music started after that.

So in a moment—

that was a long story. I'm sorry, brother.

No, well, the story is part of the process, and the outcomes of where you're at in life is based on this journey that, that, that we have this mindset today, right? Especially with this instant gratification economy. That you just think about what you want and it will show up without having to do any of the work, right? And my guess is, is having gotten to know you over the last couple years, is the amount of effort that you have put into your entire life of trying to solve this component for yourself has manifested in the depth and connection that you have with yourself, with your family, with your spirituality, that in which you're in return taking out to the community in the world through what you're doing now. Right on.

Yeah, for sure. Right.

So, so in that moment, you had the spiritual mic drop from this rabbi.

Yeah.

And that was it. And that changed it for you.

It, it was the— so I, and I have to say this too, I talked about my wife and I being best friends. April loved on me so completely that I had finally gotten to a point where I was more okay with me. She, she would like, every time the negative stuff would, would pop up, she would shut it down. Not, not like in a shameful or, or, you know, don't be so stupid, like, not, not like that kind of way, but like taking my face in her hands, literal, kind of like, I love you and you're great and this is what you do and this is why. She's like bringing that other validation in. And showing like, we're going to counter this with a whole lot of love and a lot of commitment. And, you know, it was— I got to imagine, like, it was, it was not— there were times that weren't easy for her. As hard as I was on myself, it was really bad. And, and the spiritual component was like the— that was like the other side of it, because that was like your connection to the world and creation and all this stuff. And that relationship with God hadn't been mended.

It.

Um, it was really tough. So when Judaism happened, like, enough of that foundation had been worked on that when Judaism happened, it was like the whole story— suddenly everything was on the table. And I was like, oh, wait a minute, it's all there. This makes so much sense. And I was learning lessons later on that she had been teaching me earlier. You know what I mean? Does that make sense?

Yeah.

I asked that way too much.

Yeah, well, it, it, it reminds me of story that I heard, um, about this Rabbi Shlomo Carlebach, who you're familiar with his music. Yeah. Um, and, and in his spiritual teachings. And he was this— for people out there who don't know, he was this hippie Hasidic rabbi post the Holocaust that started a revival in finding people who were disconnected from, from Jewish faith and Jewish practice all around the world in ashrams and yoga retreat centers and and you name it, back in the, in the height of the hippie era, from, you know, the late '50s all the way to the '70s and '80s before he passed in the mid-'90s. And there's a story about him walking on the street in New York where his synagogue was, even though he traveled all over the world doing concerts and, you know, stuff that you're doing in that path, right? Teaching and storytelling and connecting. And this woman comes up to him frantically and, you know, and says to him, Rabbi, I have to tell you something. And he's like, okay. And everybody was either holy brother or holy sister, right? Right, back in the day. And in a time frame where it wasn't, um, you know, people are like, what the heck? What is that? I'm not holy. What are you talking about? Right? I'm not your brother. I'm not your sister. So, um, and it's funny, right? And for— you know this, but for people who don't know that, right, that you're saved in my phone as Holy Brother Joe. So, so the legacy continues.

I love it.

So, so it's, it's so, so she goes, uh, Rabbi Shlomo, I don't believe in God. And he just looks back at her with this huge silly grin and says, wow, that is so beautiful. And she's floored. And she's like, wait, wait, wait, you're a rabbi, you're supposed to believe in God, and here I am telling you I don't believe in God, right? And you say that's beautiful. And he responds, "Yeah, that is the most powerful thing I've ever heard in my life." And now she's like even more suspicious, and she's like, "No, no, no, you're a rabbi. You're supposed to believe in God. You're supposed to tell me it's not good that I'm believing in God. I don't get this." And he's like, "Sister, you don't get it. You're carrying the biggest secret in the entire world." And she's like, "All right, I don't get this." Like, just for people who have a little bit more of a background about, about Shlomo, he can trace his lineage back to King David from the Bible on 7 different branches of his family tree. Good gravy. So we're talking about like, you know, when people talk about lineage and who's who, and we got the Rockefellers and the Vanderbilts, right?

All these, right?

This is King David we're talking about. 7 branches can trace it back, right?

So the real deal. Significant legacy. Significant legacy. Significant. We should care about that.

Right? So he's like, let me tell you. I'll tell you the deepest secret. The God you don't believe in, I don't believe in either. And I think that's kind of what we're all going through, whether it's about God, whether it's about our core beliefs, our core values, about the experiences that we've interpreted are probably an inaccurate interpretation because we're carrying a story that doesn't belong to us. We're playing an old album that we're only playing because it was our family's album. It's not the album that we choose to play.

Absolutely right. Absolutely right. I think we lose sense of the truth. We lose sense of the truth. One of the things that really helped me a lot, it was after this, you know, this kind of religious discovery, um, that we had, which, you know, changed, changed our lives as a family. It changed April's life, Nathan's life, my life. I mean, it really changed everything for us. But there was some simple truths that I wasn't focused on. There was a time when I would wake up and I would think about what people that I have to interact with can't stand me and how it would be so much better if I wasn't here and all I do is cause pain and all I do is upset people and all the stuff that I touch, it just goes to crap and it's no good and really, I'm no good and boy, people tolerate me and I'm another mouth to feed and like really terrible stuff, right? When the truth is— the only truth is that the sun came up. I should probably have some water because I'm dehydrated, and I need to take a shower before I start my day. That's it. That's what's actually happening, is that I woke up. The other thing that's happening is that other people are waking up and they're starting their day. And it's like, it's crazy how how simplistic that is, but that's actually the truth of what's happening. You know, and if I'm a passing thought in somebody's mind, I'm a passing thought because they have their own lives. And on the one hand, I can be like, "Oh, you know, all these negative things about myself." But at the same time, I thought later on, I was like, maybe it's a little selfish of me to be sitting there thinking that I'm living in other people's minds as much as I seem to think I am, when the truth is I got up. And I should probably have some water and take a shower. And then I need to figure out what the next thing is going to be. That's the truth. That's it.

And I share this with my clients day in and day out. Oh, yeah, right. You're not responsible for anybody else's beliefs about you.

Right.

And to spend any time, effort, or energy trying to change that is an utter futile waste of your experience because that's their journey, that's their story, that's their narrative. That's the filter that they have chosen to look at the world through.

Right.

And, and when you're going back to that idea about waking up, you and I will get this. Many people out there won't get this phrase, but I'll have you finish it. Um, the best part of waking up is—

well, it's Folgers in your cup.

Well, why isn't the best part of waking up waking up?

Right? That is true. But that is right. You know, people, people would always say when you would ask them, right? And I— it's coming back now, hearing people do, hey, how you doing? How you doing today? Every day above ground is a good day. You know, or I got up and it's like that simple thing. But of course we have prayers around. Thank you for letting me, you know, awaken and let me, you know, be revived in the morning and all this kind of stuff. Yeah.

So every day is a— every day is a revival then, isn't it?

100%. Every day is— every day is another opportunity that we have. Here's this— that we have to not only be here, but to be here with so many other people who are experiencing this lifetime at the same time we are. How incredible. How incredible is that? One of the things that Judaism helped me really see is that, yeah, I've got my stuff and everybody has their stuff. Everybody has their struggles, right? It doesn't matter how strong they are. Everybody has their struggles. When you see, say, like Tony Robbins up there, like doing these big workshops, when he's crying and breaking down with somebody who's breaking down, it's because it touches something that he recognizes also in himself that he struggles with, right? Everybody has these struggles. But what changed is that now people that I meet, these are other people that I'm sharing a lifetime with, and I just want to shake their hand and I want to be as kind as I can because maybe they need that. Maybe they need a little kindness in their day and a little goodness to remind them that, hey, you're great, you're great. And yeah, stuff is, stuff is definitely going to be tough and all this kind of stuff, but that's not because You're not good enough. And it's not because you don't have value. It's because stuff happens and we have to deal with those things. But your value is already set in stone. Your tree's already planted. You're good. You're good. And you can stand against things that you never even knew that you could survive. We are inherently mountain climbers. We are built to stand back up. I mean, you see it. You hear these— terrible stories about people who they managed to get back up. And the truth is, we all have that capability. We can all do it. It— and sometimes you have to strip things down to the really simple truths to remember, yeah, I've totally got this. I've totally got this. And so do you, and so do you. And we got this together. That's why we're here. If we didn't need all of us, there'd only be one of us.

And that's the universal psychology of everything. And I think that's why that when people are searching for answers, whether be spirituality or faith, whether it be about purpose and meaning, we can call it whatever we want to call it, right? If you want to look at it through a religious lens, right, feel free to do so. But that lens has to be uplifting and freeing. If you're looking at it from a relationship-based lens, and that lens has to allow you to be the most uplifted and free and purposeful person. If you're talking about it when it comes to your career, then it can't be stifling, it can't be toxic, it has to allow you to fulfill that which you find is connected to your passion and purpose in this world and how you can make the world a little bit better than you left it. So I think what you're sharing goes way beyond and is way deeper than just a spiritual path or a spiritual tradition or a religious path, religious tradition. It's that it's, you know, when we talk about truths and you said that word a few times, there's the lowercase t truth and the capital case T Truth, right? And I know you know this concept. Up well, but for people out there who don't know that, right, it's, it's the idea that there's only one way of being, which is the capital case T truth that we are forced upon us. Again, whether it's a spiritual community, a psychological community, relationship, family experiences, money beliefs, whatever it is that we have chosen to believe, we don't have to have these capital T truths that aren't healthy for us, that are limiting, limiting us and causing us pain and suffering. We can create our own little t truth. And make it our own capital teaching by this journey that you have invested in for yourself and with your family.

Right on. Yeah, 100%.

So, so, so this has led you to be this, this musician. This has allowed you to use this, this poetry of your soul, this music, right, this music of your soul, and share this with, with other people. So, so number one, This story helped you find your home spiritually.

Yeah.

And you've now made that part of your, your experience and your mission to tie where you fit into the world and God into a nice little package. Why is that specifically so important for you?

Because it didn't make sense to me. I'm definitely one of those people that I like to— I don't want to put stuff in a box. But I want to know what it is. I want to have some understanding of it. I'm great with mystery and enigmas and all this kind of stuff, but when it relates directly to me, I kind of need to know where I stand and what's up, you know. I don't, I don't like to wander in miasma. I mean, I did that— well, that's a great word. I don't think I've ever said miasma out loud. I, you know, I did that all growing up, like a haze, you know, and I, I don't want to do that anymore. I just want to have at least some understanding of what I'm working with. And that I think that simple— not to simplify God, right, but that definition that because Judaism is like any religion, as deep as you want to go, right? It has layers unending. It's the widest and deepest thing in the world. But that simple approach to God, all of a sudden, all the issues that I had about who I was to God and who God was to me and all that kind of stuff, that was all gone.

Great.

This I get. And then with all the work that my wife did, plus all the stuff I was learning through these classes in Judaism, it really simplified stuff. And, and, you know, little t became a really big T and, and it turned into how can I, how can I share this? People need to know this and not need to know this because I want anybody to be Jewish. I don't, I don't care what, what tradition somebody follows as long as it does good for them and, and they do good in the world. I think that's— you ask anybody like, what do you want most of other people? Definitely the folks, a lot of the people I know would tell you, just, just do good stuff with your life. Enjoy it. This is— you're living a gift. Enjoy it and do good for others and do good for yourself. Do good for yourself, then others. Otherwise you're giving yourself away and there's nothing left.

Well, that's a catalyzing statement around my practice. My rally cry is that if you're going to come here, my job is to serve you in a way where I help you minimize your stress and maximize your potential.

Right on.

And it's not what I believe your potential should be, it's that you uncovering the reality of what your potential could be should you choose to let go of certain beliefs, certain old stories, certain traumas and dramas that you're carrying and find the right ways. And it doesn't have to be one specific way. I joke that I'm a vegan who eats meat because, right, that blows people's mind. They're like, well, how can you be both? That's a contradiction. And our world is full of contradictions. And, and I explained that I believe that veganism and vegetarianism is the healthiest way that we should eat. It's good for the world and for nature and for environment and for to fight pollution and water runoff, all these things. And I believe that philosophically, but I also know that every once in a while I'm a person who enjoys eating an animal product. That, you know, I, uh, I do the kosher dietary stuff, and, and so it has to be— if I'm going to do it, it has to be done in a certain way, right, that is philosophically in alignment with the way that I want to do it, right? So, so it's not like I'm justifying it. It's that if, that if I believe a certain thing, that is allowed for us to use it. But I also have this other belief that this is really the ultimate way. So I'm a work in progress, right? Right. I'm a vegan who eats meat, who eventually no longer wants to, right? But it doesn't have to be a contradiction. And we, and we walk around struggling with our inherent contradictions when they could be a both-and theory. I could be this and I can be that. I'm just trying to figure out a way to merge those two together. And someone else's construct of that doesn't have to be my construct. Yeah, right. So, so then, so then that ties directly into Jewish Americana music.

That's weird, right? Uh, you know, I started writing music to help me understand the stuff I was going through. Music's always been a storytelling, storytelling medium for me, and it was something I always did privately, you know. And if I look back at songs I was writing back when, they were all dealing with stuff that I was going through in a different way. And so I thought, well, this It's good therapy and it helps make sense of some stuff. So I wrote some prayer melodies to help me connect deeper to prayer in a way that was very personal, and then writing tunes that came right out and said certain things. And I had no context for Jewish music. You know, it was not funny. It's funny now, but like somebody came up and asked me one time after I led a musical service and they said, So do you know any Debbie Friedman? And I said, who? And they, I mean, they went pale as a sheet, you know, because they're like, how could you ask me? I'm like, I don't know who that is. I had no real context for Jewish music. I knew that I didn't listen to— and I, I always listen to music for like enjoyment, right, which makes a lot of sense. But I was never into like, you know, Eastern European stuff like klezmer and all that, just, I didn't listen to that. I grew up on old country and classic rock and some of these uniquely sort of American themes of blues and, you know, and like I said, classic country music. In fact, that ranch in South Texas, that's all we had was Johnny Cash, Marty Robbins, Kenny Rogers, Conway Twitty, George Jones. I mean, that was Dwight Yoakam. Like, that was what I grew up on. So when you pick up the guitar to start writing music, those are the things you hear and that's where your mind goes. So I started writing this stuff and quickly had to figure out what it was, you know, and well, it was Jewish because it was about Jewish stuff and I had just finished my conversion and it was Americana. It was uniquely American-sounding music, so I was like, "Yeah, that makes perfect sense." It probably now slides even deeper into the country genre. But yeah, yeah, Americana. I remember, and when I got started, my rabbi was like, "Well, what is that?" I was like, "Oh, well, you know, I wrote this prayer melody." He's like, "Great, you're going to play that for our congregation." "Oh, oh, okay." And he's like, "And now I'm going to send you to this boot camp." You know, he said, "I want you to go to this conference and learn more about Jewish music and then bring it back to our community." So I did that, and I met this guy named Saul Kaye. Producer, Jewish blues artist, amazing, incredible musician, and just a great guy. And he said, "Look, I think we need to get your story out there, and I want to help you do it, but I need you to come right out and say it." And I was like, "Well, I feel like all the songs I've written are kind of saying it." He's like, "No, no, I do blues, man. I swim in the deep end. If you don't want to go swimming, I'm not going to get in the water with you, but you got to." You got to do it and say it. And I said, "Well, I don't want to offend people." And he said, "Look, if you're really honest, that's the best thing you can be. You don't have to be cruel to be honest." I was like, "Okay, right on." So that's where Unbroken came from, that whole first album. And yeah, it changed everything. I mean, I remember my wife telling me, "You got to figure out what this is because this is something, and you could do some real good here." I do these Friday night Americana Shabbat services that are very, you know, kick off the dust kind of the week sort of services. I do a workshop called Choosing to Be Chosen, which is all around finding your faith and figuring out what your relationship is to God and the world. And then I'll do concerts in communities all over. I mean, it's a different life. It's a real different life than it used to be, that's for sure. For all of us.

Well, what you just said about like putting your story out there and your fear that people aren't going to like it or you'll offend someone very much goes in line with the belief that I'm practicing myself and that I'm sharing with my clients, is that you have to put your flag in the ground. Yeah. And for the people who are only listening to the audio portion of this podcast versus looking it up on YouTube when it comes out, is that behind you there are two very distinct flags on your wall. So, so, right, on one side you have the American flag, on the other side you have the Israeli flag.

Yeah.

And you You're waving your flags, right, surrounded by a ton of guitars. And right, so you're planting and making a very strong, profound statement. And I want people out there to walk away with this message from this segment of our conversation, is that your tribe, your community, will be only attracted to that which you put out there.

100%. Yeah, right.

So you have to be firm. You have to be okay with that. You have to be honest with that. You have to live in your integrity with that. And, and I even now do this with my practice where I now only introduce my practice as a mind-body integrative wellness practice. So if you're not interested in any integrative or alternative medicine approaches to solving a problem emotionally, uh, or from trauma or whatever it may be, or about your business or about life stuff, I'm not gonna be the right person for you, right? And in a way it's polarizing, but it also gives me a cooperative agreement with the people who are showing up and saying, oh yeah, I want that, and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get better, versus I want to get better but I'm not willing to do what you are an expert at in order for me to get there. So How am I going to help them with my arm tied behind my back?

Right, right. That's exactly right. That is exactly right.

So, so, so this idea of music and you and I both are musicians and we know and people out there who are musicians know that music has its own soul. So adding this extra element of Jewish, Bible-based, spiritual-based stuff. Why was that so important now for you? Because, right, you can go into a career and you can go out there into the world and be a musician and spread music and the soul of music that way and tell your story. But why did you decide now at this point to take that stance?

Right. It's a great question. I think that the religious aspect of it, talking about being a Bible-based artist, I love that. It formed the foundation of so much that I wanted to say. It was kind of that core thing that helps drive a lot of values-based choices, right? And you got to beat the drum hard for it. And so I thought there were a lot of simple truths and a lot of things that really needed to be shared. And it just informs all the music. I even wrote a— you would never think this is a Jewish song unless you knew. There was a song we did called Whiskey Tears, which is a drinking song, but it's about an experience that was at a tisch and what it's like to spend close, intimate time with a community, and around specifically a Jewish community. But it informs everything musically that I do, and I'm glad that I didn't have that foundation of what at the time very traditional Jewish music. I'm glad I didn't have that. And I love that. I'm a big fan of it now. Like, I listen to so much stuff now, but I'm glad I didn't have that in the beginning because it helped me figure out my own way of communicating things. And, you know, I wouldn't have it any other way. One person, or a lot of people have asked me, you know, how comfortable I am if certain songs, you know, they, they make it to a certain level and it's very clearly Jewish and I have to explain that, I'm like, great, let's talk about it. Let's get into it, you know, because I think there's a lot of room at the table. And plus, if the music is good, it should stand. It should stand. If the music is great, it should stand. And if it makes people go, there was a little bit of Hebrew in there and I don't write a lot in Hebrew, but they're like, Hey, that sounds like something that I heard when I was at synagogue. Let me look at it. Great, great. The more conversations we can have, the better. I actually did. I was at South by Southwest and we're in this bar and I've got the band with me and it's Friday night and I'm on the mic. We're doing all these tunes and stuff and all stuff, you know, that I've written and about Jewish things and but a lot in English. And so I got the mic and I said, I said, y'all know it's Friday night, right? And everybody was like, yeah, this bar was packed. I said, that means it's Shabbos. And they're like, yeah. And I went, Shabbos. And everybody goes, Shabbos. And then we did this version of Shalom Aleichem, and, uh, they had no idea what I was talking about, but they were super into it. And then afterwards at the— and my, my guitar player was killing it, man. He plays, um, he, he brought his talk box, so he was doing his whole Peter Frampton thing for the solos. And afterwards I was at the bar and this guy goes, Hey, man, was that Hebrew? And I said, yeah, for sure. And he was like, sweet. And he looks at me and kind of winks like, I'm Jewish. And I'm like, you don't have to whisper that. That's okay. But yeah, it informs everything, man. And it changed my life. But it was the simple truths in there that changed it. And they're truths I think that we share and that should be communicated and that people people need to hear. I wish I had heard more of it when I was young. Um, and I'm not even talking about the religious aspect of it. I'm talking about our part in the world, the psychological, the practical. Yes, yes, yes. I mean, I, I fully adhere to the religious aspect of it, but there's those practical applications. So good, so good.

Well, you use that phrase, the open table, right? There's so much room at this table.

Yeah.

And the word that you used a few minutes ago The word tish is a Hebrew word which means the table, right? And for those who are not familiar with that phrase or have never heard that phrase before, it's commonly used in Hasidic Judaism for a spiritual gathering where the leader of the spiritual community will bring and share psychological, spiritual insights and wisdom as it relates to the energy of what's going on in that timeframe.. And it's with music and food and singing and melodies, mostly, you know, a lot of times wordless melodies that are beyond words, right? And stuff like that. But it's also, in a way, and I know this word is polarizing in a lot of ways, but it's very— it's a tribal energy. And, and, and, and right, as we're descendants of 12 tribes, right, we hopefully can use that word still. But it's allowing people to find their group of connection and group of being. And I think what you're saying about having an open table is that this universalism that you're trying to share, that I'm trying to bring in with my clients, is that as long as you're doing good and connecting to your purpose and potential, find other people that are doing good in similar and shared ways and shared beliefs, right? And the two of you together are going to be an enhanced antenna to broadcast that out to the the world. And this idea of— right, and this whole time we've been talking about God, which is such a polarizing concept. And I've had so many different people from so many different backgrounds on this podcast that this is the first person that is uniquely specifically talking about God from a Jewish perspective. That in my mind, as a therapist that happens to be a Jewish therapist, is the idea from the 12-step world of God of your understanding.

Right?

And that concept of God of your understanding in that world is like, what does it mean to you that will allow you to have a personal connection to something that is bigger than you, that gives you purpose and meaning to wake up in that morning and go have that coffee and go take that shower, right?

Right. You know, it's, it's, it's really kind of wild too. Once that— once I could understand— well, I mean, look, God— I think one thing we do is we make a mistake sometimes and we equate God a person, like God is a human being. God is God and not a person at all in my mind, right? It's just, you know, we'll figure that out at some point later on, I'm sure. But being able to understand that connection and go, okay, I'm okay and we're good. I thought we were, but now I'm convinced of it. We're okay. Great. Now I can get to work, you know? And then it just becomes about being in the world and doing all this. One of the things that also comes up is when we talk about religion in these workshops that I'll do, I'll tell people, look, these, you know, you've got all these different religions, a lot more than like the big three. I mean, there's tons of religions out there, right? Well, the truth is, there may be areas where they intersect from a decision-making standpoint. These are different religions. They believe different things. We don't have to make one thing look like another thing. To be okay with it. We can live in separate houses, but the truth is, is we're on the same block. We're sharing this neighborhood, and the best thing we can do is take care of that neighborhood. I don't have to live in your house, you don't have to live in mine, for us to be amazing neighbors, look out for each other, help each other. And then when the storm blows through, that we get out there with our chainsaws and help remove the trees from the street. For those of us who live in Houston and Florida know what I'm talking about, you know. I mean, we could We can do so much good together, so much good, and still live in our different houses. But we can meet, we can meet outside.

And that even applies even to like a work case scenario where everybody who is trying to figure out what they bring to the table. And some people— and this is from the book The E-Myth, which is one of my favorite books about the environment of the entrepreneurship world or the, the business big world, business-based world— is that there's the person who's the entrepreneur, and that's the person who has the big idea, and they're willing to go out and hustle and connect and network and brainstorm and, and, and then find the manager who's the person who helps them implement it, hires and fires, organize a schedule, supplies, all those things. And then that person brings in the technician, and the technician is a person who does the job that needs to be done in order for that to be put into fruition. And in each of what you're really describing in that, in that context is that art, right? At some point, we need to decide whether we're going to be a technician, a manager, an entrepreneur in every single aspect of our life. Some people just need to show up and be part of something, right? And that contribution of showing up and being part of it is the powerful thing. Some people need to be the organizers, and that's part of their purpose, is to organize the gathering. And some people are the the big idea thinkers. Wouldn't it be great if we created this? Wouldn't it be great if we had this idea of how we can do this? You know, and I can help you find it, and I can help you fundraise it, and I can help you get a place to do it, but I can't be involved in the nitty-gritty because I have too many other things at that level going on, right?

Right.

And everybody in each aspect of their life need to figure out where that is and then share that, and then be welcome in sharing that space with the other people who are playing those other roles, which I think is exactly what you're saying. Yeah, in that, in that regards, in that regards. So, so let's take this into the idea of doubts and insecurities, right? So as a musician, as it is with probably any other talent or experience or relationship, or, right, again, it can— money, jobs, finances, career, relationships, personal identity— we all carry doubts and insecurities So as you've evolved and as you've come into your own wisdom over the years, what are some of the ways in which someone can get past those doubts and insecurities?

Well, I think one of the things that, that it's easy for people who are artists of any type to fall into is having an expectation of a response. And if they don't see that response, they can make decisions that greatly impact their ability not only to do what they do, but how much good they can do and to continue doing it. There are, you know, I look, you get up every day and you hope that people like what you've made and that it does some good. But if you don't see that response, there's a lot of other factors in play there. Maybe people happen to have not heard it. Maybe people had a busy day so they couldn't share your Facebook post because they had stuff going on. Maybe the only reason, the true reason that you only got a handful of responses is because the algorithm that decides what shows up in whose thing didn't pick you. You know, I mean, there's, there's a million reasons other than, well, I'm not good enough at this. You know, you, you You have to, you have to be able to decide for yourself whether your art has value, and you can't let other people decide that core foundation for you. And if it does have value, then you have to figure out how to get it out in the world. And that's a very mechanical process. That's a very mechanical process. You know, they say it takes 10 years to be an overnight success, right? When especially when I've heard musicians say that a lot. The amount of work that goes into building, you know, your— not just musicianship, but like how you market your music, how you get your music out there, the business fundamentals, tracking all the stuff, follow-ups, emails. Like, that's all a mechanical process. And if you don't do that, then everything is just, well, we'll see. And in today's world, you can't just say, well, we'll see. You have to you have to get those core business fundamentals down to make sure that your music can do as much good as it can and to get out in the world. The other thing I think that we do is we make this mistake of thinking that people owe us their time. That is— I mean, look, I did that a lot, not realizing I was doing that when I was much younger. But the truth is that nobody really owes us their time when it comes— especially when it comes to music and and things like that, right? They're— when they decide to engage with your music, they're spending some of their holy currency. We should be crazy grateful that they took a few moments to listen to it. Not like, well, you know, well, they should listen to it. No, they should listen to whatever they want, you know. And you, you can't have this— I think to, to do as much good for yourself as possible, right, you can't wake up and go people have to listen and should listen. Maybe the music is great, and that would be great if they did listen. You should do everything you can to get it out there. But having this expectation that people have to like what you're making, I mean, that puts incredible pressure on them. It puts incredible pressure on you. It strains friendships and relationships, causes undue stress, worry, fear, doubt, everything. And that's crippling. Eventually to the point where people go, I can't do this anymore, I gotta just not do this. You know, removing the expectations of other people and instead saying, what do I expect of me? What do I got to do to do the best I can? And at the end of the day, if you've done all of those things, great. If you haven't, then the next day after you get up, have your coffee, take a shower, figure out what you can do different. You know, I follow a ready, fire, aim kind of mentality. I get really enthusiastic. Yeah, let's do it, let's try it. Something didn't work, I don't come at myself. I just readjust and readjust and readjust. And I think that's the best that you can do. I don't know that I'm going to do music forever, but I mean, I didn't start a professional music career until I was almost in my 40s. I didn't expect to be doing this with my life. I'm so glad I found it. And I'm super grateful that every day that I get the chance to do this. Um, you know, I do hope people enjoy it. I do hope— I do hope people love it. I hope it does, but I hope it does some real good for people. Um, and, uh, and I know that I have to do my work individually to make sure that I'm doing the best I can for people when they do spend some of their holy time, which I really believe that that's their currency, is this time. That's the most sacred thing they have, right? That if they're going to spend that on me, that I'm doing the best I can for them out of respect for the time they're giving And, and it's a different, it's a different outlook than I had before. It really is.

Well, it's also contradictory to the time and economy of which we live in today.

Yeah.

And I think that's why in the artist world they talk about the breakthrough artist, right? What is it that they broke through? They broke through someone's attention with providing enough type of value or interest for that person to invest their time, effort, like you said, their currency in that other person. And I think it applies to the same thing in a relationship. What are you doing? How are you serving powerfully? How are you showing up? What are you contributing to? And I say this to my couples all the time that I see. It's like, what is the problem that you want to solve and what are you willing to do to solve it regardless of what the person sitting next to you never does.

Wow.

Wow.

And that spins the paradigm, right? That, yeah, that basically says you are accountable and responsible for your own outcomes of what will show up for you in your life. It is not the person next to you's fault. It is not your parents' fault.— it is not your child's fault. It's not the school you went to, the money you had, the money you didn't have, the friends you had, the friends you didn't have. What are you willing to take accountability about?

Right.

And what are you willing to do differently? Because if you're sitting here complaining about it or struggling with it or stressed about it, that means the action steps that you have made based on the beliefs that you have about how to solve that problem is not in complete congruency with what will truly get you there, right? So when you're willing to let that go is when the magic is going to start happening for you.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's amazing that the number of walls that we build up around ourselves and the number of situations and problems that we feel like we're encountering that we completely put on other people. Well, if they hadn't done this, then this, and if they hadn't done this, then that. But at the end of the day, Hey, you're the one going to bed and waking up, you know. You're, you're the one that has to own things. And, and so two things I want to say. I think one of the best things that we taught our son was that— and this was from lessons, you know, in youth— but going, you can make a mistake, it doesn't mean you're a mistake. You can fail at something it doesn't mean you are a failure as a person. You can make the wrong decision, it doesn't make you wrong as a person. It's, it's just a choice, and you can make a different one. And that's as simple as it is. And even says, I think, I, I don't remember where in the Torah it talks about where it's like, look, if you're, if you're doing wicked stuff and you want to start working towards being righteous stop doing wicked stuff and start doing righteous stuff. Just stop doing this and start doing this.

Just pivot.

Just pivot. Pivot. And it's okay. Yes, you, you may have made some decisions that impacted you in a really bad way. Stuff happened as a result. There were— there was a— there was an effect that your life had based on decisions that you made. And if you start making making different decisions, you will have a different effect on your life. And the thing is, we carry a lot of the weight, and we don't know how to deal with the weight of our choices, and it hangs on us. But, oh, but all these things happened, and all this stuff happened. Yes, that is true. Now what? Now what? That's something I ask people a lot. Now, but now what?

So that concept that you just shared is what I believe is what I would define as emotional momentum.

Yeah, right.

So when you're used to pedaling in a certain direction for a significant period of time in your life, you're going to be automatically going in that direction without having to think about it. And that's the inertia of that, right? Now, to change direction, to go in a different way, to go at a different pace. That's going to take energy, and it's going to have to take a conscious fighting of resistance to go back and be pulled in the different direction, and which is more natural for a significant sustained period of time. And everything that I think I'm working on here with my clients is changing the direction of inertia, right, for them, right, and helping them drop resistance to the old patterns. The old thought processes and helping them be in alignment with better, healthier directions based on the outcome of what they want instead. And I think that that concept of momentum is, is, is something that I want. Like, it's like when we jump on a bike, for anybody who, who has ridden a bike, um, or you're in the swimming pool or whatever it is, is that the first few pedals, the first few, right, strokes, there's more resistance in either on the ground, right, from the, from the ground pushing back up again, right, against the wheel. When you have to push harder for the first few pedals or the first few strokes until you get that glide and that momentum going. But after that, as long as you have the energy and you keep up that pace, it's gonna get— it's, it's there and it's easy. Yeah, but you got to break through that resistance, that first wall of of resistance and negative momentum in a direction that's not taking you where you want to go. And the second thing that I'm hearing from, from what you just said is that no one will ever get something different in their life to show up that is any different from that which they believe.

Yeah.

So you can keep talking about that which you don't want, that which you don't like, this is how the world is going to play out for me, that will be contradictory to what you say you want. It will never show up differently, right? And that's right.

Yeah, two, two things on that. Um, and I heard somewhere, I don't remember where it was, but I thought it was so genius, and I use it on myself and, and, and mention it to other people quite a bit. You know, imagine all the things you don't like about yourself all the things you say that are terrible to yourself. I don't mean like, oh, I'm not good at basketball. Well, Joe, that's because you've never learned how to play basketball and you don't go out and do it. Yes, it makes sense, you're not good at basketball. I don't mean like that, but like, I'm a bad person, nobody likes me, like those kind of existential things. Not, you know, imagine your best friend or the person you you care so much about, you really love them, and you hear them saying those things. What would you say to them? You recognize what the truth is and you recognize what they're doing, and you know it's inaccurate because that makes no sense. You recognize the truth immediately when it comes to other people. That's what you should say to yourself. The thing you would say to the person that you care deeply about, that you want to cut through all the stuff that they're going through to say, No, no, look, look, you've got to be able to say those things to yourself because that is the truth. You know, it's, it's tough. And the other thing that I would say is that to go along with what you said is, you know, it's really easy. And I don't mean this to sound negative, but it is easier to sit in a boat in still water than it is to get on more aggressive seas. But the truth is, is that calm, still water doesn't take us anywhere. We stay there, we sit there, we don't become better sailors. You know, we got to go to the, to the adversity and go through some of the choppy stuff and some of the rougher seas. We become better sailors. We realize that we're equipped, that we can do it. And then we help show other people that it could be done.

You know?

Well, that's the same metaphor with a diamond, right? Millions and millions and millions of pounds of pressure. Pressure in that little tiny little area that creates something that could be coal or can be diamond. And the difference is, is how much pressure, right, was applied to it, right? And then we take it out and you're like, oh, what is this, right? And then you gotta chisel away at it and you got this big thing that's like, right? And then you gotta cut it, which you think you're actually destroying it, but you're cutting it down with a laser and, right, shining it and polishing it and, right, it keeps going through all these different things until you finally get this thing that's worth worth, you know, a ton of money, but it went through this whole process to get there. And you can look at it and you're like, oh, it's just a lump of coal, right? But it's got to be filed down and chiseled. And in a way, that's what life is. And, and this, this concept of if you change your beliefs about what you believe you deserve, right? And I'm not talking about entitlement. I'm talking about the truths, the lowercase truths that we want to make the capital case truths that we've been talking about in this episode. This is the work that, that everybody needs to do is that you have to find your value and purpose in your life. And I'm a big fan of, of coming up with a list of core values in order to which make those decisions through. So it becomes very binary. It's either a yes or no. Does it align with my core values or does it not? And if I keep following this list of yeses, will that bring me to the outcome of what I want at the end of the day to create a wonderful, beautiful legacy?

Right.

So speaking of legacy, as a husband and as a father? What's the most important aspect of these roles for you?

You know, April and I have learned a lot of lessons in our 20 years. We just had our 20-year anniversary this year. Thanks. And I hope I'm answering this question and understanding the question right. But the stuff that, the stuff that we've learned about ourselves and how to work through these things and these strengths they're very different from things I learned as a kid. I didn't see this as a kid. I didn't. And people were going through their stuff individually, right? I have no way of knowing what they were actually going through, but how to, how to stand back up like this on a fundamental level, I learned much later on in life. And, and April and I You know, we've helped each other a lot. Believe me, I'm the lucky one. She's done so much for me. It's just unbelievable how amazing this woman is. But those fundamentals of how to stand back up and how to find those simple truths and reconnect to what's real and not let, you know, worry, doubt, and fear rule our decision-making. I think we've— I'd like to think that we've taught that to our son in a big enough way that he can also help show other people and show his own kids. People in his life. And I hear him do these things where he tells his friends some of these core value things. And I hope that he passes it on. I hope that the kind of— my biggest fear, I was always afraid of being a parent. I was terrified because I was convinced I was going to screw it up. And I knew the stuff that I was going through and the things that I was feeling. I was like, I don't ever want my children to go through that kind of stuff. And I know that's what I'll do because that's how it goes, you know. Um, I, I hope that, uh, I hope that Nathan— I hope that he has fewer scars than I did, um, and, and that he recognizes, you know, what's real. And he does, and I hear him talk about it. I hope that— I hope that that continues for him. And, you know, I'll cheering him on. We have very real talk, very real father and son talk, and it's great. And I think one of the things that showed me that he gets some of those things is watching him, you know, stumble and struggle and giving him just enough space and just enough guidance that he can— when he gets back up, he also sees that there's a big part of it that was him choosing to do it. And then recognizing that, showing it to him, validating it until he owns it. And now he's 20 years old. He's going to be 20 in March. And I remember he called me with his first bad grade and he goes— well, not his first bad grade, but like in college, right? Which he was like, I can't get this wrong. I got to get this right. And he goes, he goes, Dad, I got, I got a, I got a 68. I said, yeah, yeah, that's rough, you know? And just pause, long pause, you know? Well, what do I do? Well, what did you not do? You know? And he goes, okay, I got it. I got it. I got this. Yep, absolutely. 100%. You know? And I'm like, oh, thank God. I was like, what am I going to say? How could you? Well, now it's shame and guilt, right? Why? Why wouldn't you care enough about your schoolwork? Of course he cares about his schoolwork. Don't say that to your kids, right? Well, you don't care enough about— they do care about it.

Right?

It matters to them and it matters to him. So, you know, I was like, I'm not gonna drop in these things that really it's my issue, you know, and I'm frustrated maybe at my own. But that's that thing I heard one time: if you're mad at your kids, stop for a second, just stop for a second and think, am I actually mad at myself? Right? Huge, huge. So when he told me, of course my first thought was, ah, that's not great. You know, we don't— we got to get the I gotta get that grade back up. But that, that, but all I did was go, you know, yeah, that's, that, you're right, that, that is, that's tough.

You empathize and you connected.

Yeah, that's it.

That's always needed.

So what do you now, what do you now, what now, what, you know? And he did, he turned it around and he, he did great. But he had to, he had to go through that. But, you know, him knowing that he can and that he's okay and that we love and support him and truly believe in him as a person. That's not the thing that is in doubt. It then— it becomes— once that is secure, then it becomes, then it becomes, um, mechanical. Study more, get better sleep, eat better, you know, spend— allocate more time. Not, I'm not smart enough, or I'm not good enough. It's just mechanical.

Well, it's a shift to priorities versus if I do these things in prioritization and I put my effort and time into it, then it will be achieved. Versus, like you said, that self-doubt— I'm not good enough, I'm not smart enough, I didn't— right? It's two very different, uh, frequencies to, to focus at. And I, and I want to challenge people out there that if this is something that they can take away, um, and apply with their children, with their staff, with their friends, with their relationships, it's the same thing as just creating and opening up space for that person to step into it and take ownership. And, and, and that means that you don't even necessarily have to be there in the future for that impact to stay with them, for them to do it that way in the future, because, right, your mark is made through creating that space, right? So I know one of the things in which when people meet you, even before they open— before that you open your mouth to sing, and before a guitar gets strung, there's a very specific mark and impact that you make on them.

What's that? Are you asking me that?

I am asking you that because, because, because there is something, there's something specific that for those people who do not know Joe, that when he walks into a room and you're within a few feet of him, you know that he's there.

You know, I think that the thing I try real hard to do, and I think that it's important for artists to do this, is you take what you believe and you amplify it, right? You amplify it. You got to really light it up. And whenever I go into a new place or a place that I'm at, I'm genuinely excited to be meeting new people and spending what I consider very holy time with them. It's their time. They're sharing that with me. So there's a, there's a real gratitude and a gratefulness for their time and an excitedness to meet new people and shake new hands and share time and stories. So there's, I guess it's, there's, there's a lot of enthusiasm on my part, but at the same time, um, you know, this is, this is, uh, this is the room that I work in. I do a lot of acoustic tracks in here, and it's kind of like a little studio. But it's also what I'm most comfortable around, which is very, very down to earth. You know, I try to bring a little bit of the— I don't want to say the bar room, but a little bit of the Southern charm. Yeah, just some, you know, real low-key, down here kind of, let's just, let's just be people, man. It's okay. I'm, I'm glad you're who you are. Let's talk about who you are. I love it. Um, yeah, so maybe it's, uh, if there's anything— and you can tell me if I'm wrong— I think a genuine enthusiasm ism to be around those people and to be with them and spending time with them.

Yeah, and, and it not only, right, hits, hits people in their heart and their soul, but, but you also hit them in their nose.

I was wondering, I was wondering. Oh my goodness. Okay, yeah, um, right. There was a, there was a show that I did and this, uh, very nice lady, uh, comes up to me and she says, uh, we had talked about some really heavy stuff stuff during this concert. I tell a lot of stories and things. And she goes, "Can I give you a hug?" And I said, "Yeah, of course. That's great. You know, I love hugs." And she looks at her friend and she goes, "Oh, he smells like cookies." And what it was is it was this beard balm that I use. And I immediately went and ordered a lot more of it because how great to smell like cookies. I got a friend of mine who, who lives down the road who, you know, he makes his own products, is really great stuff. And, uh, yeah, so I'm, I'm a big fan of, of balms. And, you know, if there's any, anybody who's growing a beard, here's the, here's the truth, if I can tell them, because it's so important, Jason, it really is. Listen, if you're gonna put a forest on your face, you got to trim the trees, you know what I'm saying? You got to go in there and take care of it, because the truth is, is that In here, it can, it can be a nasty thing, right? So you got to wash it, you got to condition it, you got to put oil when you get out of the shower to take care of the skin. Folks, if you're— if your face is itching, there's a reason. It's not getting what it needs, right? So put some oil in there, rub it in nice and deep, and then during the day you get some balm to shape it. Because the truth is, nobody, nobody wants this, right?

Shape that. Unless you're ZZ Top.

Unless you're ZZ Top, right? And look, There's only one, there's only one of those. So, you know, shape it, keep, keep it nice and respectable. And then, you know, when you go to bed, put some more, put some more oil in it. Take care of your face. Good gravy. You got to live with that every day, every single day.

See, and that's where you know Joe is a true Southerner. He's saying good gravy, which, which, which is, I know, is one of your signature—

we actually—

your signature Colin phrases.

We actually made buttons at one point. We were talking about about like merchandise, and April's like— I was like, well, we got to make some other stuff. And she was like, you should have a button that says good gravy. So now we have these little buttons that say good gravy. It is completely silly, right?

Not only is she your wife, but also the inspiration.

Oh, she's so many good ideas. Any good idea that I've had, I guarantee you it was an idea that she had for sure, which is you should marry me, right? Exactly right.

So I, so I know we only have a few minutes left, but, um, wondering if we can try to throw in a song and, um, yeah, see how that will play out.

So I, I guess the question that I've got ultimately here is if this is going to be too loud or, or just quiet enough. So I'm going to move this mic back a little bit. I did— I want you to know I was ready for you to ask this.

Oh, so I don't want to hold out anything from our listeners, and this will or will not be edited out depending on the quality, and we'll play with it. But, or we'll just, we'll just add an acoustic, we'll just add your song, one of the songs from one of the albums that you get to pick, and we'll put it into the, into the, into the episode.

I'm gonna move one of these, uh, earpieces out of the way so I can hear what I'm doing here. All right, so I'm going to do you a— sounds okay?

Yeah, sounds great.

Not too much? I'm going to do a tune that is a great example of some of the stuff we talked about. I took a prayer setting for Hashkiveinu, and I thought, so we're talking about laying down at night and grant us peace and grant, you know, this rest and bring us back in the morning and all this kind of stuff. And I thought, man, how many times in my life has it been so hard to believe in the idea that there is peace? And their security and their shelter when I'm not feeling it myself. During Hurricane Harvey, uh, here in Houston, you know, I mean, I knew people that were literally holding on to the sides of their homes to not get swept away in the water. Like, we're talking, they showed all these videos of these homes and synagogues, furniture floating all the way to the ceiling. I mean, it's devastating. It changes lives, you know, outward, like, immensely. But You see people doing so much good for each other to help each other stand back up. But in those moments, it's got to be tough to believe in goodness, you know, even though it's still there all around us. So that's what informed this. So— Spread out the shelter over us. And God is so in love, shielding us from the storm that blows our way. Yeah, there's shelter in the shadow of your wings. Hashkiveh Adonai. Eloheinu, ve'ashalom ha'mideinu, shonreinu le'chai. Lay us down, oh, lay us down, down, oh, down in peace. You raise us May you raise us with eyes to see. Yeah, there's shelter in the shadow of your wings. Hashkiveinu Adonai, Eloheinu, Veshalom HaMideinu. We pray for life, Lord. Pray for peace now and when the drums are at ease. Blessed is the one who gave us breath. Yeah, you saved us so we can live what we've got left. Shelter in the shadow of your wings. Where there's shelter in the shadow Amazing.

Thank you.

Thanks, brother.

So everybody, Joe Buchanan, where can they find you? Where can they get their— your music? How can they connect with you?

Yeah, uh, so I'm online. You can find me, look, anywhere that good music is streamed, uh, you can find me. Alexa knows my name now. I'm on Spotify. Apple Music, all that good stuff. We got a website, it's joebucannonmusic.com. That is a great hub that leads to everything else that we got going on. And the new album is called Back from Babylon. And I hope it does some good for you. I hope you find some good truths in there.

So everybody, this is the You Winning Life podcast with Joe Buchanan, who is a good friend of mine, American, Americana musician. Jason Wasser. And you just had some hard-hitting lowercase t truths that became some big capital T truths. And if there's anything about this specific episode or any other episode you've listened to so far that you have found value in, please do me a favor and share it out with just one friend. And if you're so inclined, please hit subscribe on your podcast platform of choice. And if you're even more inclined Leave us a 5-star written review on iTunes. And really want to thank you, Joe, for sharing your time, for sharing your message, for sharing your passion and your purpose with us. Thank you. And I look forward to having future conversations with you.

It's an honor, brother. It really is. It's meant so much. Thanks for your time as well.

My pleasure.

Thanks for listening to the You Winning Life podcast. If you are ready to minimize your personal and professional struggles and maximize your potential, we would love it if you subscribed so you don't miss an episode. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Jason Wasser LMFT 🎗️.