Ep. 31-Eric Christiansen: Award Winning Documentary Producer is Unmasking Hope

This is the You Winning Life podcast, your number one source for mastering a positive existence. Each episode, we'll be interviewing exceptional people, giving you empowering insights, and guiding you to extraordinary outcomes. Learn from specialists in the worlds of integrative and natural wellness, spirituality, psychology, and entrepreneurship so you too can be winning life. Now here's your host, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified neuro-emotional technique practitioner, winner and certified entrepreneur coach, Jason Wasser.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the You Winning Life podcast. I'm Jason Wasser, licensed marriage and family therapist, and today's guest has had his work leveraged as educational tools by top mental health institutions. Erik Christiansen's films migrate from the entertainment arena into environments that help audiences navigate the profound collateral damage trauma creates not only on the individual but the family and the community as well. As a trauma survivor, he lost his home in the Santa Barbara Painted Cave Fire disaster. So he definitely understands trauma, the resilience of the human spirit, and how important hope is to the healing journey. He has previous films such as Faces in the Fire, Homecoming: A Vietnam Vet's Journey, Searching for Home, Coming Back from War. They've all been transformative in the recovery process for thousands of people whose lives have been compromised mentally, spiritually and physically by trauma. He's a founder of LA-based EC Productions, a company that creates socially conscious, nonpartisan films that enrich the human spirit. And by spotlighting survivors and their journeys, he's been able to help unify a variety of audiences around the power of hope and educate the general population around the complexities of trauma. Eric's a 7-time Southwestern Region Emmy Award recipient, and he's produced— And he's also produced for major networks, including Discovery, TLC, PBS, MTV, and an IMAX film. Eric, thank you so much for joining today to talk about a topic that we need to discuss more out in the open.

Jason Wasser, it's an honor to be here. And I completely agree that for the last 25 years, pretty much that's been my mission to get the word out about trauma recovery, not just about the trauma, but trauma recovery. And, you know, it, to me, trauma and grief recovery Almost, they overlap a lot. And so, you know, I originally did a lot of, I call my work grief recovery and now it's buzzwords, but whatever. But I do a lot of trauma recovery and grief recovery.

So before you got into all of this, let's talk just for a few minutes for people out there who haven't heard of you, haven't heard of your work, but your passion just to be in the film production side of things, where did that come from? How did you get started? What mentors did you have along the way before you started getting into the specific niche?

Oh my gosh, what mentors. And that's a— mentors is a big topic for me. But I got to say in second grade, I think somewhere in second grade, I did my first film with a script. And I was shooting regular 8 film on a little regular 8 film camera. I had a script, I did a safety film for my school. And that was the start of it. And I think that's all I wanted to do since then. But the interesting thing is, and I remember, being about— I don't know how old I was, but deep down, I always knew I had a message. And there was a reason I was doing these films. But it was never super clear to me until when I lost my home in the Painted Cave fire disaster, and then became very apparent why I was in media and doing films. But going back to the mentor thing, man, I've had so many great mentors, but I gotta mention one mentor is a Robert Salicia, and he was a commercial director, and he just taught me. I mean, literally, I did the old apprenticeship kind of thing. I carried around all this equipment, I did whatever he needed, and I followed him around, and it was such an education because he had such command of his craft. And he was a commercial director, he did a lot of major commercials, and I just learned more than anything, I learned an attitude from him about how to just move through things and get things done and keep your vision. And so that was one of my mentors.

So what was it like back then going through that, going through this mentorship, having to carry around things, get the coffee, everything that people now joke about in the field, right? Because the assumption is I'm going to go, I'm going to get a job, I'm going to get a mentorship, and I'm going to be doing everything that I wish I want to be doing in the field, not realizing that sometimes you you gotta start from the ground up. And I think mindset has changed, especially with young professionals these days. So what's just a little nugget, a little tidbit of wisdom that you can share? And I call it the famous psychologist, Dr. Ice Cube, mantra of check yourself before you wreck yourself. And as an LA person, I know you would appreciate that.

Oh, that's hilarious. Not to name drop, but Part, I actually ended up being, I edited, I'm going on a different tangent here real quick, but I edited a lot of rap videos, believe it or not, early in my career or midway through my career. And I fell into this niche. The director, Marty Thomas, said, "You look like a great cop." So I ended up going down to the set of a rap video and it was one of Ice Cube's protégés. And so I played a cop in the video and the next thing I know I'm doing a scene with Ice Cube, so. Anyway, so you can cut that out if you want. But rewinding, you know, speaking of mentorship and how it's changed, you've really kind of hit one of my hot-button pet peeves because I learned a lot by the humility of having to— it's not the humility, to me it was an honor to be able to be around somebody that was such a master. And be able to help them out some way. And then for them, in turn, that respect that I got from being able to humbly do whatever they needed be passed down, a big gift. And I mean, to me, that was priceless. But now I interview for people coming in as a production assistant or something. And they're all, "Well, you know, it'd be great. I can't really wait till I direct the next film with you." And I'm, "Excuse me." I'm like, I've been doing this for like over 40 years. 40 years, and then you just— that's lost. But what I got from it is just so much, and I have a series of mentors, not only Bob, but it's just also, it's also a mindset of being able to be taught and look for your teacher. And I think if that never stops, that's a good thing. I'm always looking for the next teacher. If it's in my craft or if it's in life or how to be a dad or how to just be a better husband maybe. I don't know. And it's a mindset that you learn that unfortunately I think a lot of it's been lost. So I don't want to be the old guy saying, "Oh, but you know." So—

Well, you haven't said, "Get off my lawn yet," to anybody, have you?

No.

So then you're good on that department. But what it sounds like you're talking about is the trait of humility. Right? And I think that this, as a therapist, when people come into me, they're sitting here and pointing fingers at the person across the couch on the other side and saying, "It's their fault, fix them. I'm not really ready to take the responsibility for what I need to do to change my life." So it sounds like when people are showing up for these types of internships, or they're starting off in a career or a field that they're new to, that they have to have the patience and the, really, and the humility to to gather the wisdom and the insight from the people that they're standing next to or sitting next to.

You know, and that's, you know, that pointing, that finger pointing at that humility, it's a tough thing. And it's a tough pill to swallow. And, you know, in my life, I've been part of a group of men in recovery. And part of my program there is, you know, accepting the fact that I am an alcoholic, basically. And I've been doing this for now 28 years, clean and sober. The other part is, you know, I made a list of amends, made a list of wrongdoings I've done. And I started to own that. So not only did I own my shortcoming of my, my chink in my armor, I guess you would say, but then I had to start to own my actions. And let those go. And then, you know, I'm going on a whole different— but it's so important to me. And it's what we're talking about. Now I have to own my emotionals, my emotional state. And that is a very tough thing because— but it's also a gift because once I start— stop saying, you know, you're making me mad, this is a situation, this is why I'm at this way emotionally. Once I can get to the other side of that and say, you know what, It's like what Abraham Lincoln said, "As happy as we want or that we allow ourselves to be." That I can own my emotions, it's a big source of power for me.

Well, that probably ties through to all the work that you're doing, Reed, as you jumped from your own personal traumas, losing your house in the fire, recovery. Isn't the theme, and I know this as a therapist and as a certified addictions professional as well, is that the accountability aspect? Is a huge part of healing.

Oh, and 100%. And working with these trauma survivors is— the people that I see that are, you know, it's hard to speak about it without quantifying or qualifying certain aspects of healing and trauma, which is really not on the board. But in order for us to communicate, it's something I have to talk about. But so going back to that question is, when I see somebody that's really, I hate to say it, but on the fast track to healing, that has really put themselves out there and that are reaping the gifts of the healing and getting to the other side of things, the core of that is usually a complete honesty about what has happened to themselves, that they can actually get to that core. And how do you get there? It's so many different modes and modalities that you can, but it's the people that have really accepted this has happened to me. And this is the truth for me right now. And then they start to move on at a quicker rate.

So then let's lay some framework for the conversation. And let's start off with your own personal definition of trauma.

Oh my gosh, you know, I'm very careful with my films and with my work not to always coin the word PTSD or the acronym because, as you know, it's, it's a series of symptoms that produce what they call a disorder, the post-traumatic stress disorder. I really back away that, and, and, and how this kind of answers your thing, I go, I, I retreat back to trauma because trauma Again, it's not something you can— I've learned in the years of my work, it's not something that you can say, well, you know, my dog died, and then somebody else has lost somebody in a car accident. You can't quantify or you can't really say, oh, this is worse or that, that is worse. You know, so with a with quantifying it, it kind of takes away the power of the trauma to the individual. So how do I define it? I define it as something that nicks your soul, that's something that like is tough enough, that cut through, it's not an everyday thing, that it's kind of like, it's kind of nicked your soul. It's like, it's shot through got deep enough where, you know, this thing is not really going away. It just really affected me. So it could be practically anything. So the actual definition isn't like a material or physical definition, but it's really to the individual to identify how deep did that go.

So one of the works that I— one of the modalities that I use with my clients is called Neuro Emotional Technique or NET. And it's a clinically researched mind-body protocol that originally came out of chiropractic to find why the body wasn't healing for certain injuries, and then they extended it into the whole emotional realm. And Dr. Scott Walker, who is the founder of it, found that emotions actually get stuck in our body in different places, and using the Chinese medicine meridian system, he kind of templated this whole experience of physiological responses that don't get resolved will turn into emotional and physical traumas. So one of the things that I do with my clients is kind of helping them clear out these old stories, these old experiences, these old, old memories, right? That, that, and it could be as simple as them stubbing their toe when they were 5 and they thought they saw a parent laugh at them, or they legit went through something like losing a home in a fire or abuse or military experiences where they had to take a life or see their friends' lives being taken, those stories rationally, as you know, is the narrative around it, right? But our physiology will respond the same, right? We'll go into fight or flight. Our reptilian brain will talk about safety. And when those parts of the brain are not in sync, the rational neocortex brain and the old memory, which is the mammalian brain and the reptilian brain, which is that fight or flight, aren't in sync, we have what we call post-traumatic stress or anxiety or panic, all of the symptomology of what you and I are dealing with.

You know, and it's, I love that explanation because, you know, it's so difficult to, and I think we start to find this out when we get on the healing path, that there are actually mechanisms within us, deep within us, within our mind and our soul that we don't have control of. And we'd like to have this front that we're in control of things that, oh, you know, that didn't really, you know, I was 5, it didn't really affect me. I'm pretty good with that and this and that. But deep down these things, like you're saying, they get stuck, you know, and it becomes this like, becomes this kind of metaphysical spiritual sludge that starts to slow us down. And soon that whole system, it slows our whole system down. But we have this we have this outward approach and idea in our head that in today's society, I'm in control of this, it's okay. That's not— but that's the fascinating part of this because we have these things that are going on so deep inside us that we really don't have control and these things then surface and it surprises us.

Right, and that's the deeper layer of our autonomic nervous system. And in N.E.T. terms, we call that a neuro-emotional complex, an unresolved physiological stored memory that will show up in certain circumstances that our conscious brain doesn't realize is there, but our non-conscious and our subconscious is saying, "Wait, wait, wait, you are not safe. You now have to go into some type of fight or flight in order for you to find some stability in that experience." And like you said, people are walking around day and night putting on that game face and the mask, which we're gonna get into later about the work about unmasking. Having to deal with this, but on the inside, right, their heart rate's going up, they're sweating, they're avoidant, they're not able to be proactive in their family life, in their personal life, in their spiritual life, in their business. And this is all the work that I want our listeners out there to understand, that this is not just a military thing, this is not just a domestic violence thing, this is not just a first responder thing, but this can happen to anybody. At any given point in their life.

Exactly. And, you know, that's where my work is headed to try to make that awareness known that, you know, it just to me, and we talked about this, is the military experience and the military experience of trauma in wartime is just an acute, you know, example of trauma, you know, and I work with Dr. Aryeh Shalev out of New York University and one of his main concepts that he's constantly repeating is, you know, those get so much play, but trauma is something that occurs every single day. And then it starts to build up exactly like we're saying, then it becomes to me, I call it a spiritual sludge. It's more of my spiritual layman's nomenclature for it. But, you know, and then it starts to slow us down without us even being aware of it.

Well, it's interesting. I happened to be in your neck of the woods in LA for my birthday, July 4th weekend. And I was actually in the shower on Friday morning when that first earthquake went off. And I'm like, and I had no clue what was going on. I'm like, okay, like, you know, someone shut the door and it was vibrating the wall, you know, like that reverberation. I'm like, oh, this isn't stopping. And that first thought in my mind was like, oh my God, what do I do? Do I go out into the street? Do I grab my clothing? Do I stay here? Do I not? Like, is it gonna stop? I'm a Fort Lauderdale, Miami guy. So I'm not used to earthquakes in the right, as you remember, there was a sequence of them over the entire, those couple days. And that night for fireworks, I remember being on the roof of my friend's building and the whole time instead of enjoying the skyline of the whole, all the fireworks from all the way down from, right from Venice to wherever they were all over the city, my first fear is, oh my God, what happens if we're on the top of the building and another earthquake comes? And everybody's like, and everybody else is just chilling out and hanging out. And this is what's going on in my mind. That's a great example of a stressor that will hold someone back from being able to be present in any moment.

And that was a little bit of hypervigilance there. Right?

And isn't that part of, and isn't that part of, so to speak, the diagnosis of these types of scenarios?

Yeah, but then you're sitting next to the California guy like me. And the one thing about that one earthquake, it just kept going a little bit longer than I thought, I'm like, oh no, is this gonna turn into the one they've talked about? Or am I just gonna kind of ride here and like experience this surreal kind of shaking? You know, 'cause we've been through them before, but if you're not used to it, it becomes, yeah, that hypervigilance and it's stuck in ourselves and we're like, oh my gosh, so. Yeah.

So as you were transitioning in your career and you were doing, like you said, you were doing rap videos and other things. So what was that transition? And we're gonna jump back, more into the PTSD, but I still wanna talk a little bit about the, you know, your experience as a whole in this industry. 'Cause there is a little bit of a mystique to being in video production and doing videos and doing all this stuff. And so I wanna talk about the realities a little bit of what the grind is like, for lack of a better term, versus that your people out there who are just YouTube creators or Instagram influencers, about the amount of work time, 'cause you've been doing this for, 35+ years now, right?

Yeah. So what's that?

Yeah, go on.

Oh no, no, no, please, please finish that last one.

So what has that been like for you to go along from that journey where, you know, from where you started doing stuff for second grade all the way into the rap videos and those different experiences that then led you into the work you're doing and the amount of effort and time and training and travel and workshops and reading, like, What's that journey been like for you?

You know, there's really— what comes to mind, there's kind of 3 components to that. And the first component is, you know, I went to California Institute of the Arts in the '80s. And I went to school with a lot of the folks that ended up going to Pixar and working and changing the world through Pixar. And I mean, it was a very dynamic time. Tim Burton had just left, had just graduated. And so as super dynamic artistic community down at CalArts, and I really— I got so open to so many different, like, forms of art, you know, we'd go to the dance, and we— because it had all the different crafts there, and it was like fine art, and so it really blew my whole world open, and I became— coming out of there, I became an editor, And a lot of that editing and a lot of that, my early work was a lot of flash, you know, it was a lot of like, oh, I wanna get in front of this, this is gonna look really amazing, this, and so, and I did extremely well. And, but when the Painted Cave fire hit in Santa Barbara in 19, that was 1990. And, It took my home away, all my material things that I had in my life, and I was left just basically with my relations with people and things like that. And it took me 7 months after that to kind of figure out it was God's calling card for me. And I had this chance to wipe my slate clean and how that really like— it was kind of twofold how that operated in my life. Number one, I got clean and sober after that. And number 2, through getting clean and sober, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, how am I gonna function now? You know, how am I gonna be the artist? I can't even smoke pot because I'm clean and sober. How am I gonna be creative?" But what happened is, and to me, it's a God-led thing, that right after that fire, I made a film called "Faces in the Fire" about the recovery of my fellow disaster survivors because I was fascinated by how we could all speak with each other. It was easy to speak with each other. Another, we were all on the same survivor boat. And it's, but the public, it was very difficult to like bridge that. And I'm like, why don't I use my talents? And naively I jumped into this, my first personal documentary. And that won my first Emmy Award. A year later, we showed it after the Pinot Cave Fire. And then I got feedback from not only the people in it, saying, "This has changed my life because now that validates my whole journey. I lost my house and all this and everything, but it really validated this whole journey." Then from the community itself, man, it just, it brought the community together in this kind of healing thing. And I'd never experienced anything like that. And it was just so powerful for me and my growth and my personal healing. My work changed from then. And I mentioned the rap video thing kind of jokingly, and I was still doing some rap video after that. But I could only do that for, I only did it for another year or so and I said, you know, I can't do this anymore because this isn't part of my value system anymore, you know. So I moved on to other projects and things like that. And that's, you know, and it was a big step, but I think God laid the calling card down and he laid the incident down. And then I leveraged it basically. I said, this is an opportunity instead of something that was taken away from me. And I look back on that, I have the picture of the fire in my office. And I go in there and I'm like, wow, if that thing could turn into the best thing that's ever happened to me and changed my life, then all these other little things, if I just give it time and work through it, it's gonna play itself out. Then, you know, the second part of that is, you know, being in the industry and continually working on these type of projects, It has to be a calling instead of commerce for me. If I put the calling first, when we go out in the field and we're doing these films, when I did my film, "Searching for Home: Coming Back from War," all my films, I tell the crew, I go, "The people come first and our transparency comes first and us supporting them through this and them telling us their secret story comes first and the film second." Everybody's like, "Wow, that's so counterintuitive." But we're kind of this— instead of filmmakers, we're kind of this healing crew. I'm very careful about the people that come into the inner circle that actually deal with the survivors. And, but, you know, that's a part of this, that you have to have such a core conviction, commitment to work this way, because it is not necessarily commerce, you know, it's more of a calling. Been able to— I'm blessed with some funding angels, and I've learned how to work the system to be able to get basic amounts of funding. And thank God, my family, and especially my wife, has supported me for— well, we'll be married over almost 27 years now, and they supported me through this whole adventure. But then the third thing I'd like to say, you know, for the industry and for everybody listening, is You know, it's— I'm coming to the realization you never really arrive. You know, you see all these people in Hollywood and you're like, oh man, it's, it's, you know, as like Barry Jenkins that did Moonlight, he did If Beale Street Could Talk. Oh, he's arrived, he's done this, you know, da da da. But then you really get one-on-one with, you know, these, these artists and you meet them in person, start to talk, they're always looking for the next thing and the next level. So how that relates back to me, I'm in this big, this big change, this big shift for me taking with Unmasking Hope. And now I'm writing a feature based on Vietnam vets and their healing. It's the next step. And then, and so I was just down at the American Film Market pitching my film and working with a lot of producers down there. Rubbing elbows with everybody in the industry. And I'm like, oh my gosh, there's still yet another level. And I'm open to it. And at 56 years old, and some people don't think that's too old, I'm like, what an exciting thing. It's double-edged for me. What an exciting thing to have such a huge dream at this age and not just be retiring. The other thing is, Eric, are you like insane doing this? Because what are the really chances of this happening? But my producers, it's like, okay, keep moving. I just talked to her this morning, get the script done, get this done, let's get this in front. You know, so there's always the next step. So that's the 3 levels. And I hope our— your listeners can really take something away from each one of those.

I think what's really powerful about what you said at the beginning of that was the community, the conversations in the community of those who went through similar experiences and how everybody out there, whether they want to admit it or not, is looking to be accepted, looking to be heard, looking to be valued, whether they believe that they're worthy of being heard and valued is one thing. And I think that's part of the shame and the trauma package that we all go through, no matter what our journey is. But I think the focus on creating community, whether it's in a 12-step recovery community, whether, right, for addiction, or whether it's for trauma, or through connection through movies or people watching certain TV shows, in a way it becomes a little bit tribal.

Right? Oh, exactly. And I thank God, you know, you mentioned a certain, a certain Step Based Community. I thank God for that because I've learned so much from it. And 28 years later, I'm still hitting 3 meetings a week and doing what I need to do. And, but that, the amazing thing is, what does that have to do with your, you know, your career? What does that? It has everything to do. You know, because that empathy that I learned in there and that ability to connect with others and that model plays out in so many situations. So when I'm dealing with a veteran, it's like, what do I have in common with them? Well, I have a lot in common because number one, I had my trauma. Number two, I fully understand the recovery and I fully understand the challenges of recovery. You know, one of the best and one of the most amazing things compliments, but I take it as a compliment. After some of my screenings, especially with veterans, they come up and go, "Are you a vet?" And I'm like, "No, I'm not." I go, and then they go, "Wow, and how did you know?" And I'm like, "Well, thank you.

That's a huge compliment." Yeah, and as you take that, and as you talked about having your passion over the dollar sign is really, really important. And this is one of the things that I try to drive home consistently through my practice as a therapist and coaching and through this podcast is what you talked about is core values. I'm a huge, huge fan of values-based decision-making. It's a running theme that I want everybody to get really clear on is that, like you said, there's probably certain projects that you can be offered at this point in your career that might be the next step for you as far as infamy and, right? And glitter and all that stuff.

But if it doesn't align with your core values, are you more likely to say, "I don't know if that's the right fit for me." You know, and yeah, and it's funny that you should mention that because honestly, at this point right now, at my age, and, you know, watching other people my age retiring and things like that, and me continuing to work in this field, is every morning I have a wrestling match. You know, the one side of me wakes up and is like, "What are you doing, Eric?" You know, it's like, "Look at your past, look at all this. You know, you don't have your 401k, you don't have like this huge income and you can't go out and buy that Mercedes." Then the other side of me goes, "Look at the 10 million people that saw us searching for home coming back for more. Look at what you're trying to do right now." And look at, and the big break is just keep everything in rowing. I'm being totally honest, and it's a big wrestling thing. And I know to get that out of my head, I gotta do my meditation, I gotta do my readings, I gotta get centered, and I gotta take control of my little, and then I gotta usually speak to another person that is in my program And then I can go out and that kind of demon that's constantly trying to get me to— is gone. I mean, I'm just being honest about that because it's a lot of work, but I believe that God's put me on this path and he hasn't wasted any time. And it's been literally since I made Searching for Home in 1991, since then. I mean, I'm sorry, Faces in the Fire since 1991.

But I know if anybody listening right now to this episode, and if they think that they haven't had or won't have that same type of struggle or wrestle with something in their life, and they think they're kind of immune to it, I don't think they're being fully, truly honest with themself.

No, and I agree. And that's something that, you know, I don't relish in this, But, you know, there's certain people in the industry that are extremely well known, that are still what you would say are struggling, you know, because it's just, it's the next thing, it's the next thing. And so, and people that, people with that work on integrity too, that are struggling in this industry. And so when I hear these stories about these people that it's like, I'm like, that guy is really, he's having this and he can't get this film made or you know, or he finally got his film made and he has this amazing film catalog, then the studio just goes, "Oh, we're gonna only release it into 20 theaters." And it does make me feel better, I gotta be honest, but I'm like, okay, everybody struggles, especially in this industry, so.

Right. And especially as we go from each of the different topics that we've already talked about, this is so relatable to anything that anybody can be doing, whether they're a college student or in high school, whether they're a young professional, whether they're in their relationship or in their business, is that we're talking about common themes that can go across so many different aspects of life. So in the work that you've been doing, especially in the documentary world and the trauma world, is there a consistent common theme in each of the stories that you hear?

Oh my gosh. It depends on the type of trauma. But the one thing that comes to me is that, that really hits me strong when you say that is a theme that continually comes up. And it really hit me strong when I was thinking about one of the 9/11 survivors that I interviewed, and I'm good friends with her now is this feeling of not being able to accept the healing or the good things that are coming along. And it's because of like, well, look at the others. It's, it's a form of survivor's guilt, but not necessarily survivor's guilt. Um, it's, well, those other people didn't make it through. It's like, well, mine wasn't that bad. And it's just like inability to accept the fact that you're on this path and you're starting to heal and it's okay to accept that, that you're okay and this really did happen to you. And so that's a— I'm sure there's a clinical name for it, but it's not quite survivor's guilt, but it's inability to accept good things happening to them. And to be able to accept the healing because look at this other person, look at this. And that's what makes me so sad because I see the beauty in what— where they've come from and where they're going, but they have a tendency to pull themselves down. And largely it is a phase because I know I do continue to like be in contact with a lot of people in the films that I've worked with because they've become good friends. But a lot of times it becomes a continual theme in their lives too. So—

Well, I wonder that the idea of being able to experience joy after such a heavy impact gets lost because not only are they stuck in their own story, but they're seeing people around them who've experienced other stories. And how dare I do the work or how dare I be able to enjoy all of these good things that might be coming if I know there's other people suffering or there's a part of me that's still suffering. And it reminds me, of last year, neuro-emotional technique was actually featured in an episode of Grey's Anatomy. And one of our associates works with a bunch of people in the Shonda team and for their own work, apparently. And when they were thinking about trying to figure out what technique to use with one of the main characters in the show who was a vet, I'm not sure the name of it. It's a male doctor who is a vet in the show who has— experiencing PTSD. They thought to use NET for that experience for him to go through his own therapeutic work. And the theme was around being able to experience joy after whatever traumatic—

Oh yeah.

—that person went through. And one of the things that I use with my clients, especially if they've gone to therapist to therapist, whether it's physical therapy or chiropractic or orthopedic rehab or emotional therapies for something that they're seeing me for now to get unstuck from, is starting off everything with the phrase, "I'm okay getting better," or, "I'm okay getting well," and then we use a neurological muscle test to determine whether the fight or flight is kicking off or not. And of course they rationally want that. Of course people want to get better. They want to feel healed, but if there's some part of their unconscious or subconscious that's triggered, for lack of a better word, they're never going to get that goal that their rational brain that they say that they want. So I always start there when I have those clients that come in who been in the circles of healing and haven't gotten as far or anywhere near where they want to go.

You know what's fascinating? Because when you're talking about that and using these basically steps to get there, these certain like baby steps, is I am thinking about one of the 9/11 survivors, Becky, and who— she was an artist before 9/11. She didn't do any art for almost 12, 15 years after. She was just starting to dabble in art when we met her, and now she's really taken off. And it's interesting because her artwork actually mirrors where she's going, and you can really see it reflected in her choice of colors, her subject choice, and everything. And it's a joy to watch, but it's interesting because I don't want to say it's not external because art is such— so connected to the soul, but it's an outside activity— and a reflection that she's producing of herself that she's constantly using to get into another level. And it's really exciting. And I'm very excited to go back because last time we really interviewed her was a year ago, and her art has taken off. And so to go with what she was painting when we were with her to what she's painting now is like night and day.

It's really, really exciting. And it's true, because as those layers are peeled away, I kind of see it as like husks of the onion peel, right? That the more those layers are peeled away, the more we can become our proactive, soulful, engaged person that can reach their potential versus, you know, I think the term that they use is neurological hijacking, which is what's happening during these experiences. I love that, yeah. And I can't remember which doctor coined that phrase, but it's out there in the academic world of what's happening in our nervous system when we're exposed to these experiences, and we will fully be able to come out more into the world, into our experiences, into our relationships at a higher level and a higher frequency, the more we do this work. So I'm really, really curious because you spent a lot of time working with vets. And I also have, like I said before, about 20% of my practice has been military, both while they're in and post. What do you think the military can do better in helping while in active duty and subsequently when they're now leaving that community?

Well, I mean, there's one— there's— I think there's two different levels there. I think there's more of a scientific kind of clinical approach level, and I think there's more of a— I think a homeopathic kind of connection, you know, and I'll just touch on the— On the more clinical level is Dr. Amit Etkin, one of our supervisors out of Stanford University. He's working on finding markers that show that people are— what population sectors are more susceptible to PTSD, because everybody doesn't get it. People have to understand somebody can like go side by side through the same kind of trauma, and one person won't necessarily be affected by it, but the other one will be deeply affected by it. So Dr. Amit Etkin is developing through literally tens of thousands of MRIs and all sorts of clinical research at the highest levels, that's up at Stanford, discovering markers that will identify people that are coming into service that are more susceptible to PTSD. So maybe those people don't necessarily have to be in a war in a war zone or beyond the front, et cetera, et cetera. The other thing that he's developing post is finding, again, finding markers that will really mark people towards what kind of modality of treatment will help them recover quicker from their trauma. And so, as we all know, and you know, as a clinician, that almost, it just, one size wrench doesn't fit everybody, you know, because there's so many different kinds of ways to approach this. So that's a secondary thing. Personally, now on a more homeopathic level, what we could do is I like the Native American kind of traditions of welcoming the warrior home. And it doesn't, It doesn't, and I try to speak to some of these in my new film I'm working on, my narrative film, is that no matter what you actually did in the war, if you stood and fought or if you ran or if you're behind a desk, whatever it is, when you come home, you're welcomed home into the society in a certain formal way. One thing that the Native Americans did was separate the warriors and have other older warriors with them when they came home. And until a certain period of time, then they would be welcome and it would be— ceremonies are big. People are like, "Oh, what's a parade?" Well, talk to a Vietnam vet that didn't get the parade when they got home and you'll find out the importance of ceremonies. So like you separate them, they debrief together, you know, with the elders then they're like celebrated back into the community. And it's an event, it's a ceremony. And then after that, having milestones. That's why Veteran Day is so important. You know, thank a vet because these things are not just like something like for a barbecue or something. It's kind of, it's part of the healing for all these guys because milestones and ceremonies are a big deal. So that's, if I could run, if I could run that, that's something that I would like to kind of like to institute.

Yeah. And it's really profound that you're saying that. For me, I'm a grandchild of a Holocaust survivor who escaped Nazi Germany. And the story that I know from is that he escaped on a train that was going to one of the death camps. And if he was found immediately, he would've been shot and killed. And the power of coming from Poland in a liberation camp, coming to America, he ended up in Scranton, Pennsylvania, starting a getting married, starting a business, which is now third generation in our family. My brother and sister have taken it over. It's a family furniture business. But the theme of intergenerational trauma and what's talked about, what's not talked about, I can't imagine that 50 years ago, anybody that came out of that experience were welcomed with a parade and a celebration of, "You survived this atrocious experience." And whether it's something that's happening that happened in Darfur or whether it's happening in Cambodia, right? These things that were happening now in these mass genocides, no, we're not giving them that, that, that, that serve, that parade, that welcoming home. And I think that's so powerful and so beautiful in the culture of what you shared, that we need to do more of that. And Veterans Day isn't just about the barbecues. I 100% agree with you, as I'm born on 4th of July. So I very much relate to the idea of independence and freedom and being able to, to bring that to our purpose and potential. But I want to take a step back to what you're talking about with the study, which is something I'm passionate about as a therapist and as a NeuroEmotional Technique practitioner is the study that just came out of Jefferson Medical School that you'll find really interesting. And I'm already trying to figure out a way that we can connect your guys and my guys together too. Okay, great. So for those who haven't heard this out there and for you for the first time, NET partnered with Jefferson Medical School. Dr. Dan Monti is a psychiatrist and he is the head of the integrative medicine department there. And he partnered up with Dr. Andrew Newberg, who's one of the top neurological imaging specialists who was at Penn Medical, is now at Jefferson. And Dr. Newberg's study, which you would also, as a spiritualist, you would find interesting, is neurotheology. What happens to the brain during spiritual and religious experiences? So he did the neuroimaging side of the NET study. And what they did was they took cancer survivors who were still having post-traumatic stress even though their cancer diagnosis went from active to neutral. And they mapped each of their brains, and when they went through the narrative, their own words that was read back to them, of what it was like the moment that they got diagnosed, they put them in an fMRI and mapped their brains during that. Then they exposed them, you know, they had the group that was exposed to NET, and there was a group that was exposed to a sham, mock version of healing, and then they remapped the brains again when NET, you know, after the NET treatment. And they found that within 3 to 5 sessions, if not all of the experience, that somatic experiences of trauma and anxiety disappeared, but also majority or if not all of the areas in the brain that lit up when re-exposed to that memory and story.

Wow.

So the work that's being done out there between what what you were talking about and what's happening out of Jefferson Medical in collaboration with the ONE Foundation, the net arm of research, there is things out there for people to tap into. So if you're listening to the show and you are going through any type of traumatic experience, stress, anxiety, whatever it may be, that this modality, neuro-emotional technique, is journal-published, clinically researched, validated, and there is some incredible stuff. So I would love to see if we can get your side and my side together talking. So we're gonna, so you and I are We're gonna hopefully commit to making that happen as we— off camera and off podcast. But I wanted to share that with you. So you could, especially being involved in the trauma— That's beautiful. Yeah. Right. So all that. So I think there's that integration of, like you said, that clinical side, and that homeopathic side, which is this natural approach to get out because the talk it out therapy takes so long. And as a marriage and family therapist who's trained in clinical talk therapy, psychotherapy, I was having anxiety and panic attacks after a traumatic experience in my life, and someone introduced me to NET, and within 2 to 3 sessions, my panic attacks disappeared. Oh my gosh, yeah. And a month later, I took my first training, and I've had this conversation with people in my field, and the story I use, the joke I use is that if I had to make a choice between giving up my license as a therapist and never practicing NET again, it would be a no-brainer.

Oh.

That this tool has changed my life, has changed thousands and thousands of people over the world for the last 35 years, including the 40, 50 clients I see a week in my office. And it's happening from chiropractic and body docs, chiropractor, acupuncturist, physical therapist, and the mind docs, the therapy world. Through this modality, and the research does support and show, and it's been published in the Journal of Cancer Survivorship. Yeah, so some really cool stuff happening. Oh yeah, that's exciting.

Yeah, so, so what do you—

from your experience, like you said, thousands and thousands of people have watched and experienced your documentaries. What have you seen to be the impact from that? What are people talking about? What are they doing? What are they jumping on? Um, one, the people who have been in your documentaries, and two, the people out in the community who have participated in watching and engaging in the documentaries?

You know, there's 3 different levels to that, is the individuals in the documentaries themselves, in the doc, that's actually the participants. And that's one level. Then the people that are not necessarily truly affected by trauma or don't think they are that are watching, and then the people that are affected by trauma that are watching. So there's 3 different levels. So let me go back to the participant level. With the participants, I can say almost virtually all the people that have participated in the films going back to my first film, Faces in the Fire, they've had some kind of significant advancement in their healing. It's been a milestone for them. Sometimes it's almost life-changing. I have so many stories that I can draw on, and I'm trying to figure out some of the best. But I guess I can talk about a gentleman in my film, Searching for Homecoming, back from war, Fat Cowboy. He was a Korean War veteran, Purple Heart Marine, salt of the earth. I remember when we first interviewed him, he's like, "What the hell are we doing out here?" And he was just so not into the whole like mode of, or the whole process of what we're doing. Slowly but surely, we got to know each other and then he opened up. He had a stroke. We went and interviewed him in the home. And I got to know his whole family who are amazing. And actually, that's why I'm wearing the t-shirt from the Doodah Cafe. That's where we would go when I'm out there in Wichita, Kansas. And they introduced me to the Doodah Cafe, which has an amazing breakfast. So a little plug there. But I have my— there, I call them my family, the Johnsons, out in, um, out in Wichita, Kansas. But going back to Fat Cowboy, is he was, he was scared to pass away. He knew it was the end of his— that was the end when he was in that home. And he was scared to pass away because of the things he had seen and done in Korea. And so working with my crew very carefully, we interviewed him and And we had our clinical supervisor, Dr. Jeremy Crosby, who's based out in Wichita, was with us. And so we were able to work with him, interview him. He was able to see some of the cuts of the film. He was very excited about participating in something like this. He was very excited about passing on his knowledge. But somewhere in there, after he passed, I got an email from his daughter saying, Thank you for helping my daddy pass over to the other side because he was at rest when he finally passed away. Those demons were gone and a big part of it was participating in this film. Now here's the exciting part, right? So we premiered the film on public television. That's an exciting part, but we prepared the film on public television on Veterans Day. And we're like, why isn't Wichita picking this up? Why isn't Kansas? We only have one tiny station in Kansas. What's going on? So Memorial, rolls around, and then all the stations pick it up on Memorial Day. And so their whole family are able to see their patriarch on TV talking about his experience and everything. So we dedicated the film to him, and it was, for the family, it was an amazing validation of his life. So that's how that works on that side of things. That's one of the amazing things. The other thing is the people that aren't really connected to the trauma experience that are watching this, you know, we hit the Searching for Homecoming Back from War show 2,300 times in 3 years. So estimated audience of 10 million people. So there's an enormous amount of education. And my belief is that through education, through this understanding, through the way I present my work, By just not getting politicized, by telling the soul journey, people connect. And through that connection, it produces a sense of empathy, and that empathy produces a sense of tolerance. So if you've seen this Iraq vet talk about what he's went through, why he has a 19 tattoo, which means he had 19 kills in Iraq. If you saw him on the street and didn't have a backstory, you had your personal attitude, you go, that guy is freaking crazy. But if you see the film, you see him talk about what that means to him, what he went through and his sacrifice, you see him on the street, you have a sense of empathy, you're gonna have a little bit more tolerance. You might even come up to him and thank him and not be scared of him. So that's that one level right there. Then the other level, and we all know this, with the people that are actually in trauma is identification. It's like, oh my gosh, did he do that? Me too. And then everything breaks open, the door either cracks open or flies open, and then they're open to like the path to healing. So that identification for the trauma survivor is huge. You know, on my early— for me, and I understand identification, in my early recovery, I had to come into a place that had other alcoholics. When I was able to say, see somebody else and go, "Man, you're as messed up as me. And you're doing the same thing, but you have a path out. What? You know, I did that." That identification broke everything open for me. And so for the individuals watching any of my films, that identification for the people that have been in that place is huge. So there's kind of 3 levels to that.

It's interesting that that part of identification is so profound when someone finally gets, so to speak, smacked across the face with it. I remember a bunch of years ago, I was sitting with one of my clients and they were describing a traumatic experience that happened. And all of a sudden I'm like, "Huh, that happened to me too. Holy crap." Like, I didn't realize going— growing up, you know, my parents are both wonderful people separate from being married to each other. Thank God they got divorced. And you know, that, as you know how that goes. And they're both thankfully doing what they need to be doing in their life now. But growing up in a home that was so tumultuous, where parents should not have been together and seeing the traumatic experiences that me as the older of my 3 siblings didn't realize was going on, that being here sitting in a therapy session with one of my clients did smack me across the face and be like, wow, I do have trauma, you know, and I never thought of it growing up in South Florida, even though I was a scholarship kid and thankfully had community resources that allowed me to go from public school to private school and had a great group of friends and a great spiritual community in the Jewish community, but I never saw myself as a trauma survivor. And I think that's wonderful that people are able to watch your, your documentaries that will hopefully have that aha moment and allow themselves to get the help that they need and tap into the resources that they need that are out there. So speaking of resources, what are some of the resources that, um, you know, you suggest? And obviously it's not an exhaustive list because there are things that both you and I aren't even aware of, but what are the things that you've seen that have helped helped some of the people who've been either A, participants in the documentary, and people out there who've watched your documentaries that you've heard of tapping into?

Oh my gosh, I mean, that's endless. I mean, we can go to the Achilles Foundation, and not only do they work with vets, but they work with other people that have other traumas. They have other physical disabilities. The Achilles Foundation, what they do is they get people out there. It was amazing. They get people out there to participate in the pedal biking. They do marathons. They would fly a group of veterans out for their, you know, train them, fly them out for their first marathons, for their first 5Ks. It was very, very cool. Part of my film, Searching for Home, Coming Back for More, which you can find on iTunes, Google Play, and all the rest. But in Searching for and Coming Back from War, we were able to cover Freddy, Freddy de los Santos, and he was missing a leg and he participated in this race that they had in Central Park. But he wasn't the only person with what you would call a disability there. He was a pedal biker. They had, the Achilles Foundation had people that are blind that had leaders and they would have a little rope rope that they would hold for them and they'd run. So the people that are blind would run right behind them. It was like freaking amazing. It gives me chills still thinking about it. So the Achilles Foundation is amazing. There's Battle Buddy Foundation. Again, it's somebody from Searching for Home Coming Back from War, Kenny Bass. He came back from Iraq and he was just really, really having an extremely difficult time and he got himself a service dog. And the service dog, it was a highly trained service dog. Everybody has a service dog now, don't even get me started on that. But Atlas was a highly trained service dog that literally, if Kenny was having a dream, Atlas, a bad dream, nightmare, Atlas is trained to wake him up. Atlas is trained to get his six, sit right back behind him because he's a veteran. So when he's sitting there talking to somebody in the open Atlas is trained to sit right behind him. So he started Battle Buddy Foundation that supplies service dogs to other veterans. And that's— but that's the amazing part. That's where he gets his healing now, right? So it's like, so he's doing great. And oh my gosh, there's just so many others that I've— let's see, Veterans Airlift Command was started by a gentleman named Walt Fricke. Jason Wasser, who is— he was a Vietnam veteran, a helicopter pilot that got shot down and completely ripped his leg up and he couldn't fly anymore, came home. And he was extremely successful coming home in business and things. And he started this— he's seeing all these other vets start to come home. He started this whole network of people that own private planes and jets that get veterans from place to place. So if they— if some veteran that needs to get to like a reunion with his guys or a parade or whatever, his network Veterans Airlift Command hooks them together with a private pilot that will completely volunteer their time. They get a flight sometimes on— you can't get guaranteed Learjet, but sometimes it is a Learjet. And Walt does these amazing things like that. So But it— that's a crazy thing too. That's part of Walt's healing and giving back because he was there, he understands. And that's such an important part because in my films there's the truth, it's what happened, the point of trauma. It's the healing, it's the Me Too, it's identification, that's the healing, that's when that starts, when you finally see there's another population like you. Then there's the hope, and I define the hope in that situation as The individual that's gotten far enough along the healing path, they go back to the very beginning of people still in the truth and help them out, and that becomes their source of healing.

Yeah, I remember watching one of the trailers and one of the participants said the following: "You never really get over the trauma, you just live with it inside." And another one said, "Being normal on the outside," right? But they know that they don't fit in on the inside because home doesn't become home anymore.

You know, and that's kind of the hard truth. And that's what was so important in my films that we give the sober hope that we call it the sober ending that, you know, we want to give them hope and we want to give them, quote, a happy ending, but it needs to be sober. And that's that little extra shot is that It is the truth. You know, I'm never— they're never going to go back to normal. There's no perfect cure. I'm never going to go back to not— this is my belief, and I know there's some controversy, but from my belief in my recovery, I'm never going to go back to being a normal drinker. I've crossed the line. I'm an alcoholic. I understand now I can never go back. So what do I have to do? I have to do my— what I need to do on a daily basis to maintain that. And it's the same with all my veterans friends and the ones that are like doing well, I guess. I hate to say quantify it, but the ones that are doing well understand that, that they have to work on this on a daily basis, but they can recover and they can be completely useful and go to the point of having the joy and experiencing happiness.

And that again goes back to the resources. It goes back to consistency. It goes back to rhythms and rituals, having a life that has meaning, that has order that has purpose involved on a daily basis. One of the things that I've been thinking about through this entire time that we've been talking, in your experience, have you seen any differences between how men and women respond to these traumatic experiences that they've been through?

Wow, that's a good question. You know, I got to be real honest, is I don't have a large enough sample on the female side, although I do include them, and Sandra Lee was a big part of Searching for Home Coming Back from War, you know, and I got to say, on one level of my understanding, there is not a big difference, you know. Um, it's, it's just, it's very, it's a very human and soul-oriented experience that to me that's kind of genderless. So I guess from my experience and not from a clinical point of view, I would say there's not a huge difference. So, um, you know, but then again, I have to— I've interviewed probably twice as many men as women. You know, and that's where Unmasking Hope will like really change that.

So let's talk a little bit more about that. That's your newest project, correct?

Mm-hmm, yes it is, Unmasking Hope.

Yeah, so let's set that up for people out there and what are you trying to tackle with that? And is it presently out or it will be out?

Unmasking Hope, it's been an interesting journey. We started after I finished Searching for Homecoming Back Life for War, and we had such a great response to that on public television. But it also took me 8 years to make that film. So there was a couple, there was a couple kind of criteria in making my next film. Is number 1, I didn't want it to be 8 years long. Number 2, I wanted to expand on what I've learned and to reach a wider audience. And number 3, again, I didn't want to go 8 years and I, we already had an existing distribution system that we've set up through public television that we would use. So that's where Unmasking Hope was born. And basically Unmasking Hope is like my other films, but it goes into other traumas. We have 9/11, we have first responders, we have military sexual trauma, we have sexual trauma, and then we have mass shootings, were going to go move into camp. There's an unlimited amount of different traumas. And so, but the interesting thing that's happened with this film now is while we're still pursuing that track, it's gotten picked up by a producer and now they're pitching it as a series, which would be— that's what I'm talking about. It gets me to the next level. And that's— it's a battle to maintain the integrity of my original concept and idea in the world of reality TV. We got to one of the biggest agencies in LA and they're like, to us, it's pretty obvious what the hook is. And they're like, "We're not seeing the hook." You know, and it's kind of like, they want to see people pulling their hair out in the middle of the street. But going back to Unmasking Hope, it really is very similar to all my films. It's an aggregate of stories that tells one story about healing. And it tells the differences and the similarities. But, you know, when you're like a mass shooting survivor and a first responder, what do they have in common on their traumas? Or a 9/11 survivor? They have a ton of different things in common, but it's all different. But my— how I tell stories, I interweave them. So that produces an aggregate of their overall story. So then the viewer says, wow, if they can like— a 9/11 survivor can relate to like a first responder, then I can relate to that because of this. So it's kind of a, it's a certain form of storytelling that I've developed and Unmasking Hope is kind of the fruition of it. Although I've been told by distributors early on before Searching for Home came out, one of the things they would say about Searching for Home, oh, there's too many stories in it. People don't understand it. They want a singular story, but I stuck to my guns and it was extremely successful. And so Unmasking Hope right now is, uh, is most likely going to be a series that we're pitching right now. If not, it'll be on public television about a year as a singular show.

That's amazing. That's amazing. So I guess I want to wrap it up with tying this all into today's social and political climates. And without getting, um, down the rabbit hole of blame on any side of any political theory or stance, how much of what you're seeing through your lens of the world that people are experiencing and allowing— well, maybe I would even say, are they allowing themselves to experience and put themselves in traumatic situations because the amount of time, effort, and energy they're wasting spending talking about what's going on out in the world, especially in our political experiences that are happening today?

Okay, my understanding of that question is, you know, I think right now, and this is connected to kind of the political climate, it's connected to social media, it's connected overall to like how we connect and how we're relating. And it's not a left or right situation. Is people are slinging mud both ways. And things have come down into sound bites, into tweetable things. Very, very serious, like situations and subjects have been compressed into what is 32 words or whatever. And so I think a lot of people's thinking has gotten into that and it squeezes out all the gray area. So it becomes black and white. So the people that are like stuck in that, the marginalized groups, the people in trauma, the people that are like in that area, the homeless people. Why don't they get— I mean, this is just an example with homeless. Why don't they just get a job? That's the easiest thing to do, to say. So things have been compressed and our thought process has been formed into soundbite-ish, right or left, black and white kind of thinking. And my hope in my work is that it expands it It breaks that out of that into like, oh wow, there's two things that I have to deal with here, that it's a lot more complex than just throwing something out at a dinner table and saying, this is the way it is. It's a lot more complex than that. There's gray areas, but here's the toughest thing for people is that I'm going to have to think for myself about how I feel about this. And then in order to do that, I might have to empathize and it's very, very uncomfortable to do that. Does that make sense? And so I think this discussion and this whole political arena, this whole— again, it's not a party thing. It's on both sides has compressed things into like bites, right and wrong, black and white. And these issues are so complex and people have lost the ability to take the time Breathe in, empathize, look at their neighbor, look at the— look at, you know, different races, different religions, breathe in and like understand that it's just not a black or white thing, that I have to empathize because they have families too and they're seeking the same thing that I'm seeking, which is a very difficult position to ask of some people to take that time. To actually empathize. Does that make sense? Does that kind of answer your question? Yeah, completely.

One of my good friends is actually a clinical director at St. Joseph's down in Santa Monica, which deals with homelessness and mental health. And we've had these conversations about like, well, what would it be like to build a community and like a retreat center type environment for those who have gone through these experiences and, and, and bring them there and do your rehabilitation and voc rehab and emotional stuff. And the thing she kept coming back to is what she shared with me is that all they know is where they live at this point. And that experience around that little— that became their community. So to take them out of that experience, even though politics on one side would say, well, let's get them out of the city. And politics on the other side is like, well, no, we have to keep them in the city and just throw more money and more resources, right? Is the ability to have a dialogue which I 100% agree with you, on both sides, but to come with boots-on-the-ground solutions at so many different levels.

And that's where, you know, that's where I see some of the most effective— going back to this real quickly, that's where I see some of the most effective programs for veterans are these people that have been there. The people like Pam Pyre out of Maine. Her son came home, and he was really damaged by PTSD and she got him through the whole system. And then she realized after getting her son through the system, there's other guys coming home that don't have a mom that's gonna advocate for them. So she started the Wounded Heroes of Maine, this nonprofit in Maine that started going out and helping guys navigate the system. And not only that, make sure that they have heating oil in the winter and all this other stuff, but it's boots on the ground. It's like somebody that said, "Hey, I got this." I learned how to do this and I'm gonna give it away to somebody else. And I gotta say Veterans Airlift Command is very similar that I talked about. Battle Buddy is boots on the ground. It was Kenny, he just started that and he's going full guns. I'm not sure about Achilles Foundation about what their background is, but it's these small people that see a problem and they start to deal with it on a regional smaller basis.

So there's a lot to be done and there's a lot to talk about. A lot more for us to talk about, for other people to talk about. So if people wanted to, A, see the documentary, I know you mentioned that it's on iTunes and other places. If they wanted to do a showing of the documentary, if they wanted you to speak or to get in touch with people connected to the documentary to bring it as a resource into their own community, how can people do that?

You know, they can get ahold of me through my main website, which is Uh, it's EC Productions, Eric Christiansen, ecproductions.com. They can get a hold of me through there for any speaking or like being able to show the film. They can go to searchingforhomethemovie.com also, and they can go to unmaskinghopethemovie.com. But if you want to get a hold of me, they can go through ecproductions.com. And again, I'll just plug my film Searching for Home: Coming Back for More. You can watch it tonight in honor of Veterans Day, and it's on Google Play, iTunes, all the usual subjects for streaming. So it's searching for I'm Coming Back for More.

Eric, thank you so much for doing such an incredible service, not just as it's part of your own healing and your own therapy, but being able to bring this out to the world again. Like we started off with, with this is such a profound and powerful topic that no matter what our background, no matter what our experience, we can all go through something traumatic. And, you know, as a therapist, I want to impress on people out there to go find the resources, whether you're military or you're civilian, right from that lens of the world, that there are incredible therapists out there. There are great resources out there. There's, like we talked about before, neuro-emotional technique. And if people want to find a certified practitioner near them, they can go to netmindbody.com. They can find out more research about the— so they can find out more information about the research on ONE Foundation. And obviously check out Eric's documentaries, reach out to him for more resources. And in the show notes, we'll have a list of all those organizations as well as what you mentioned and what I mentioned. So Eric, thank you, thank you, thank you again for hanging out and spending this time with me today.

Thank you, Jason. This is awesome. Thank you. I appreciate it. My pleasure.

That was— thank you.

Oh yeah, thank you. That was great.

Good, so we got work to do. So we got to make some contacts, we got to make some connections. How do you want me to, can we do that? Can we connect your guys up in Yale with my guys at Jason?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's say I have connections in New York University and Dr. Shalev works with Dr. Medecin at Stanford.

Okay, so let's figure out, so how do you want me to do that? Do you want me to just email? Yeah, no, email me.

Let me give you my email and just CC Ariel on it. Yeah, go for it. My email is ec@blueopus.com. That's my main one. Blueopus.com. Cool.

Yeah. Awesome. All right. Yeah, because we definitely— there's definitely universal reasons why this interview happened. And I literally just came back from an NET conference and they were going through the clinical research, which I've known about, but there's also a documentary called— it's called Stressed. So just as a side crazy note, as you were talking about homeopathy, and I'm gonna— my whole practice is mind-body integrative and alternative medicine for emotions and mental health stress. The documentary was taken off Amazon because there's a little bit of something-something going on in the powers that be between Amazon and Google. And Dr. Mercola, I don't know if you're familiar with, who's a natural— he's an MD but talks about natural medicine— his website went from 30 million views down to 1 million views 'cause it's being throttled.

Oh my God.

And there was just a Google whistleblower that came out and had an interview with him about that they were doing that because big pharma funding is behind a lot of the investments. Wow. Yeah. So our documentary, Luke Segreto, who I would love to connect you with also, his father actually was the former president of the ONE Foundation, but Luke, the son, did the documentary "Stressed." which is on Google Play and iTunes and a few other places, but it'll be cool for you to see that documentary. And I'd love to get you connected and see how we can maybe utilize all of your skills and tools for now, what are the resources available out there for people going through trauma from whether it's military or, you know, if that's a project that someone might want to take on. Oh yeah, yeah. Definitely. The healing side of the coin. Spain. So just a lot of connections for us to—

Yeah, definitely send me all your contact and mention that so I can take a look at that. And let's stay in contact.

Please, please, please. Yeah. Are you ever out in South Florida?

No, Florida is funny. That's one place I haven't got to in a long time. I went there once for a convention and but I've gotten to all the other states, it seems like, you know, a lot. But no, I'm afraid not. But I was gonna say, if you're ever in LA though.

Yeah, yeah, I was there. Funny enough, I was there twice in the past few months. I'm not sure when I'll be out there again. Maybe there's another NET conference out in— actually, I wonder if maybe for the day of research, maybe they would let you go as a guest. I'm gonna try to make that happen as an introduction. Oh my gosh, that would be great. Yeah. And because I know they're doing it, I think in this— I have to look when they're doing it, but it's in the next year they're doing with the advanced, which is one day of the research and then two days of the modality for other things. But at least sit in on the day of research, maybe. Oh my gosh, yeah.

I'll connect you. That sounds great.

I'll connect you with Dr. Walker, with Dr. Deb, who is the wife of Dr. Scott, who is the co-founder. Okay, perfect. Yeah, so good. So this is all meant to be in many, many ways.

Yeah, totally, I agree. Thank you. Awesome.

All right, good. So we'll be in touch and I'll keep you posted when this is gonna be released. And I'll give you the Dropbox link so you'll have all the social media clips. Oh, and then both the audio and the video of the interview.

Okay, great. Cool. Yeah, you know, it's funny, um, uh, Searching for Home came out like over 3 years ago on public television. We had a theatrical run over a year ago, so it's been out for about 4 years, and we just got a 5-year extension on the public television. And our— and so we've been running back, we've kind of like fired up our social media. Instagram wasn't a thing then, but our Facebook is really active, so Yeah, I'd love to get it out there.

Yeah, so we can definitely, if we can connect somehow the ONE Foundation. Okay, great. With what you're doing out there. One of the guys that Fred did, which was the former president of the ONE Foundation, he was working with a guy named Rory Patrick Hamill. I don't know if that name's come up throughout your— Uh-huh. So he's out in Jersey and he had a phantom limb pain and he's a military. Oh yeah, uh-huh. And he went everywhere. I mean, he was on medication and he was depressed and suicidal. I don't know if they took down the clip. If I can find it, I'll send it to you as well. But he interviewed Rory after he went through NET with him. And now this guy has like a gazillion followers on Instagram and his life is, he's competing.

Oh, send me that. I have a couple below the knee amputees and things that particularly Doc Jacobs that is like suffers crazy phantom pain. Okay.

Yeah. So functional neurology, chiropractic, there is a ton in chiropractic, functional neurology, chiropractic does a lot with that, but also in physical therapy with the mirrors and all that, like, you know, the light, the mirror boxes and all that. But, but NET, like I said before, if I had to, God forbid, give up my license, and in California, everybody's a life coach here, right? So as you're right, so it's like, what's the point of having my license now that I'm no longer I'm not taking insurance anyway, but I need it in order to practice NET 'cause it's only licensed clinical medical professionals. Like, NET has just become my, it's my passion and bringing that to the world, both military and civilian with stress and trauma and anxiety and food cravings and addictions. And I mean, we can talk for hours about all that. Oh, okay. So yeah, but I just—

I'd love to learn more for sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So all right, so we'll make sure those things happen. So cool. Thank you.

Thanks for listening to the You Winning Life Podcast. If you are ready to minimize your personal and professional struggles and maximize your potential, we would love it if you subscribe so you don't miss an episode. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook @JasonWasserLMFT 🎗️