Ep. 44- Build Yourself Happy: The Joy Of Lego Play with Abbie Headon

This is the You Winning Life podcast, your number one source for mastering a positive existence. Each episode, we'll be interviewing exceptional people, giving you empowering insights and guiding you to extraordinary outcomes. Learn from specialists in the worlds of integrative and natural wellness, spirituality, psychology, and entrepreneurship so you too can be winning life. Now here's your host, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified neuro-emotional technique practitioner, trainer and certified entrepreneur coach, Jason Wasser.

Hey everybody, welcome back to the You Winning Life podcast. I am here with Abbey Heaton. She's the author of Build Yourself Happy: The Joy of LEGO Play. She's a graduate of the University of Oxford and she's presently working as an editor and writer. She's written several other books including The Power of Yes, The Power of No, Pochi First Aid Kit, and The Literary First Aid Kit. And she lives in Portsmouth, England, which is really cool that I get from the other side of the pond. And one of the cool things we were just talking about is actually how I found you, Abby. And I just want to share with our listeners this really cute story, is that I was at lunch, and as I told you, like, I wanted to get all the news apps off my phone, which I committed to a while before that, but I wanted to see what was going on in the world, but I also wanted something that was positive. So I went on the website called goodnewsnetwork.com, and your book came up. And after reading the article, I immediately reached out to you, and now months later, I get to have you on the show. So first of all, welcome.

Thank you very much for having me.

Awesome. Thank you so much for being here. I know we have a little bit of a time difference and we just worked out all of our little technical difficulties, but I'm really, really excited to be spending this time with you. So let's start back. Let's start with the book and then we'll get into a whole bunch of other things because there's so much going on in the world. But how did this book— was this your idea? Did this fall into your lap? What's the backstory behind writing this book?

Okay, um, I'll just wave the book at the camera. Yeah, I've got a copy here. It's called Build Yourself Happy. So, um, the way it worked, it was really very much like my whole career path, um, a series of, of chance occurrences. So I went for a job at Ebury, which is part of Penguin, a few years ago, and I didn't get the job, but I did make friends with some of the staff there. And then a lady who was a director at Ebury, then she moved to DK, and they're the official publishers of LEGO. And we'd already met at a few events, and we'd had this interview that I didn't get, but we kind of had a good rapport. And then she sent me an email saying they were going to put that she was working with Lego on this concept for a book about Lego and mindfulness, and would I be interested in writing some sample text for it and putting something together. So I did, and then the book developed into less about calm and mindfulness and more about play and joy. And so the short answer is it fell into my lap, but through a series of happenings that led me to make it fall into my lap, if that makes sense.

Totally makes sense. You find like these type of things, like I'm a big law of attraction person. I happen to be a therapist, but I really do believe like the psychology and the neurology behind the law of attraction is so cool, especially when it comes to falling into the right places at the right time, right? The right experiences at the right time. So a lot of it's mindset, a lot of it's positive thinking, right? And all these things. Have you found like throughout your career, because being like being a writer, being an as an editor, right, you have to really burst through and make yourself stand out compared to the millions of other people out there, right? How has, like, your mindset allowed you to do the things that you love doing? Because I'm assuming not only do you do this for work, but I'm assuming there's a passion that's—

yeah.

So how's that mindset played out for you?

Um, I, I think there must be some people who have a plan, how I'm going to get from A to B, that I want to start, um, I'm going to be an intern, I'm going to I'm going to be a junior something and then a middle-ranking something, then I'm going to be like boss of everything. And it seems to me that there are some people that have this kind of linear arrow-like path. And I've just never had that. I've been like more of a pinball person. I've been more like, oh, this looks quite interesting. And then maybe that thing looks quite interesting. And it means that like, I'm not ahead of everything. But, um, I've had quite a nice time experimenting with different things. And, um, I wouldn't say that I've attracted the most, like the highest achievement in life. I haven't been like a director of a large department, but I think I have been quite open to different experiences. And I've always, if there's a chance to learn something new, I've always taken it. And if there's a chance to go into a room of people to meet them, even though I've always found that quite anxiety-inducing, I've had times when I was kind of shaking outside the door thinking, I'd like to just go home now, but I forced myself into the room. And I found that by taking the step into the room and smiling at someone and having a conversation, that can lead to good things happening. Yeah.

So the mindset that you just shared is so profound because you— we talk about the end process, we talk about like the book tours, or we talk about, right, the end of the project or the business that somebody's built or whatever it is, but we don't talk about like all the effort and challenges and struggles and disappointments and frustrations and rewrites and edits and, right, whatever it may be. And I know this from the academic world with friends who've done dissertations and whatever it may be as well. How, like, the ego side of things, right? The, like you just said, like getting into a room, being uncomfortable, not giving up, making yourself go to the next step, pushing yourself. Like, was there times throughout this process, even for this book or other books, you're like, yep, nope, I'm done, I'm shutting down this project, I'm a fake, I'm a phony, they're gonna see right through me, all that, right? Has that ever shown up for you?

Um, yeah, yeah, of course. I think all writers have that, um I read a tweet from a writer that I follow who said that she switches between, 'I'm so clever, I'm the only person who understands this, my insights are unique,' and, 'What I've just written is pure garbage, no one will understand it, no one needs to read it, I should burn it.' And I think, I think perhaps because there's some ego involved in any artistic creation, But writing is especially like that because you do it by yourself. You kind of squeeze the words out from somewhere onto the document, then you send them and they disappear and you don't hear for weeks if it was all right. So you go through, "It was great." "Oh, it's very bad." "No, no, maybe it was great." "No, it was probably terrible." And You're all alone, you do it by yourself, so that's more intense. If you're in like a sports team, you all know if it was good or bad, but you're by yourself, so you're just, you're kind of staring at yourself.

I can see the metaphors when it comes to like relationships, that it's exactly the same thing, right? Right now we're talking, it's a time of the pandemic where a lot of us are isolating, and there's all these really cool things that are going on that like maybe people are trying to connect with each other more, whatever it may be. And I'm hearing this 'cause I'm in a bunch of these like, Facebook singles groups. And like one of the moderators who I'm friends with of one of the groups is like, here are the rules. If you reach out to someone and they don't respond back to you, just because we're all isolating doesn't mean they don't have stuff that they're doing in their life already. So be patient. Don't keep— right? But a lot of what you're talking about shows up in the patterns of human relationships at all levels, right? Whether it's with a friend, whether it's with a loved one, whether it's romantic relationships, definitely in business, right? You put out a business thing and you don't hear back right away. I love that, like, what you're saying as an author and as a writer is the same in all human dynamics. So it's a really powerful lesson that we can all take away. And as I go back through the titles of the book, how, like, deeply psychological they are, which of course, right, play is supposed to be like letting yourself go and being in the moment, very mindful. But like, I just wanted to go through some of the chapters of the book. So the first one is like Getting into the Zone. Very mindful. Close your eyes, find your balance. What's your actual default style? And then thinking about what all the possibilities can be. How do you relax? How do you time, like how do you separate yourself from everything going on so you can be focused? Build for joy. Just have fun with it. And that my last, literally my last therapy call was all about. If you're not enjoying what you're doing in this whatever, then, right, if it's not joyful, then whatever it may be, sleep and relaxation, and then connecting pieces, connecting friends. So like being a child again, right? So all of these things are so deeply psychological, and it's all through the metaphor of playing with Legos.

Yeah, it's, it's funny because there's something I, I have to admit. I'm surrounded by Lego show and tells here, and I know it's a podcast, but I've brought a few things to like wave in front of the camera.

Please.

But like, you know, when you— I've got some Lego bricks here, and like they're so They're so simple, they're just bricks, like, you know, and we all played with them as children and we just think, oh, you know, I'm probably too old for it, I'm a bit serious and, you know, but I've just found that if you put Lego bricks in front of grown-ups, they become children again. And I don't know if it's because we all played with them as children or because like, look, I mean, they're so colourful, they just And they make this nice sound. They kind of sound like the sound of playing. They kind of illuminate you. They make you feel happy. And as soon as you start building, they become something, like without you meaning to, you build something that looks like something. And so then when I was putting ideas together for the book into chapters and then into activities, like, I just found these quite profound ideas coming out. Like, what if you notice that— and one thing I always do is I always build very symmetrical. And so my things always, they always balance. And I thought, well, what if you try breaking that and build some things that don't make sense? Um, like, and, and also I found if you put eyes on something— here's one I built last week.

Oh, that's awesome.

Um, it's a little— just for anyone who's on the podcast, it's a little robot. And, um, if you put googly eyes on anything, it could just be a square thing, you put googly eyes on it, or you put a flower on its head, um, it becomes cute. Yep. Like, without the flower, it wouldn't be quite so cute. And like, with— it's got a propeller, so you know it's a robot.

Obviously.

Right, obviously. But like, it's really easy to give a personality to a thing. You can give it a little face, you can give it wavy arms, you can give it legs. And like, at first I had the legs both sticking out the same way, and then I made the legs stick different ways, and it has more character. And I'm not saying there aren't any rules, but like, Once you start playing, you start thinking, oh, I could do the arms this way, or I could make— give it legs. This one doesn't have legs that move, but you could probably give it legs that move.

Well, the quote that's coming to my mind is, um, I think it's a phrase from Deepak Chopra, which is, it's the realm of infinite possibilities, right? And, and as I'm sitting here thinking, and I'm like, this is literally a whole modality right there, is the whole play therapy world for children. And like we were talking about before, that like, you can't— you probably can't go into a children's play therapy type office without finding Legos. But there's no, like, there are people who come up with like creative little interventions. But like, I'm sitting here thinking about this where a kid has a fear, a kid has a phobia or nightmares, and you say, hey, you know what, let's build what it would look like.

Yeah, right.

And then they build it and it's like, they like, yeah, I'm like, why is it so afraid? Well, like, you know, it's not nice and it's sharp and whatever words you can come up with. And then I'm thinking exactly as you're talking, let's put some googly eyes on it and a flower hat. And all of a sudden, it doesn't become scary anymore. So I'm sitting here when I'm reading this book and I reach out, like, I didn't realize that, like, I thought it was like, okay, it's really cool, it's very mindful, it's very zen, right? But for people out there listening, they're like, oh, it's not cool to be playing with Legos. There's so many therapeutic things that when we return to play in our life, and Legos is one of the most amazing ways of doing it, right? Is that you're going to tap into so many things, and you can start off with something and end up somewhere else, right? Like you said, you can break your own rules. But I'm wondering also for like parents, if you're listening out there and your kid is going through something that's frightful, I challenge you, go bring the Legos out and say, "Can you build what you think it looks like in your mind?" And then go and then add the eyes and go and add a flower hat and go add, and like, okay, and then see what happens with that. So just something really, really cool that you just, in your way, you just shared with us. So first of all, thank you for that. Like, 'cause again, infinite possibilities out of something that you never thought. So for you, like, what has been like some of the most like therapeutic resources for you? Like you just said, like, I realized I do everything linear. So what was it like? What was that challenge like that brain? Like, I know, like, you know, when our brain hits a limit of like our thinking, it starts to hurt. Right. And we know, like, neurologically, I like that, I believe is our neurological pathways that are actually breaking and rewiring and refiring.

Yeah.

So what were some of those things that were coming out for you as you were going through this book that were like, huh, this is really deeply therapeutic for me, and like, I didn't know this about myself.

I think I quite like to be in control. I quite like to follow instructions and get things right, like, in my life, like lots of people, you know. I tried to do well at school, I tried to get praise from the teacher, and tried to get full marks on maths tests and things. And so I think the thing that's most fun or challenging for me is to just to take pieces and put them together in a completely random, unthought-out way and then see what comes next, but without a plan. And then go, oh, well, maybe I could build a bit on the side, or, you know, to, to kind of build really freely. Because I guess a lot of us, when we go through education and our career, especially, I think this happens more and more as you become an adult, it's always, did you do it right? Did you do it well enough? Did everyone see you do it right? And what I love, like your quote about infinite possibilities, is if you're playing Lego by yourself, um, or with friends, but like especially by yourself, give yourself the freedom to do something where there's no right. And even if there was a right, like I want to build a tree, well maybe it doesn't come out looking like a tree. It doesn't matter, you're just playing. And I just think that that's the challenge for adults And kids don't have that at all. Like, kids will build something that doesn't look like what they say it is, and then they'll say, oh, it's a monster, it's a robot, and you're going, is it? But they, they can see it. And as adults, we have to, like, unprogram all that. Is it right? Did I do it right? Was it good enough? Was it better? You know, and just go—

well, that's where that inner critic, right, comes from. And I, I was reading a book, um, I can't remember the name of the title, but it's a book on running. It's a whole Running Modality book, and they say that when you watch children run, their body mechanics are literally the most natural, free-flowing, efficient way of running. And then as life hits us and we're told how we have to run in class and we have to do this, our body starts tightening and we lose that. We start getting more constricted and we lose that natural mechanics. I think you're hitting on that, right, that we are told either by a parent or by a teacher that, no, that's not the right way and our creativity. And then that inner critic starts coming in that maybe we're going to be wrong, maybe we're not going to make them happy, maybe we're going to disappoint somebody. So how have you found through that process, like, like you were just saying, like, these type of things can help us, especially for us as adults, that we don't have to do it right?

Well, I, I had a launch event for the, for the, for the book back in October. It was actually at my local MP's office because he's super supportive and he's really lovely. And I came up with these activity cards that I spread out on a table, and they just said things like, build something that's only one colour, build something that looks like you, or build something beginning with the letter B. And so the idea— and then I made all these little boxes with kits in just like little selections of bricks. And it was on one side and there was a bar and there were some books for sale, but people kept like going over to the table and they're kind of going, "Mwah, yeah, probably won't. Yeah, maybe I'll just take a look." And then like they would be totally engrossed and they'd be like, "No, I don't want this, I don't want this." And I've got some pictures just showing people who've lost themselves in the building, even though they're in a noisy room full of people. And I think it's partly because Lego is this really basic toy that we had from the beginning, and because it looks so unthreatening, it's so— it offers those infinite possibilities, and like, it allows people to sort of hurdle over some of those inner critic stuff and just go, "Oh, what if I did build something that began with the letter B?" Okay, like, that seems to be them slowly starting to let go of—

yeah, that, and just start being fully engrossed and present.

Yeah, there's something about Lego that seems to give you permission to do that.

And what about like inviting other people to join you in this, right? Especially kids are very good at like, either like they're like, nope, that's my Lego, I want to share, or they'll be very good at sharing. But as adults, like, we definitely become much more territorial about it. Like, you can, like, I mean, people who are listening to the podcast can't see, but like, you can see my guitar behind my back, right? Ain't nobody touching that thing, you know? It's not something that I'm going to share with someone unless I know they're actually a musician and they know that they're going to treat it with the respect that I would treat it. How do we, right, especially when it comes to play and these type of specifically, right, if we're going to use Legos as adults, like, have you heard of people or have you had people who are like, hey, come on over, we're going to do a Lego party?

Well, yeah, before the book— before I finished the book, I wanted to test— oh, I'm so sorry, something went ping.

It's all good.

Um, uh, so, um, yeah, before I finished the book, I had my husband and a friend of ours around at this table, and I put a whole load of Lego in the middle, and I was ready to test the activities that I had done, and, um and I thought, oh, I wonder if they'll get into it. And like, they both just reached out for the Lego and started playing with it without me even telling them what the game was. And so I do think you have to open yourself to a little vulnerability to share that kind of childlike creativity with other people. But if they're people you know well, I think they'll fall into it. And also, as long as you— if you're the host, if you started it, then if you open it in a way that just offers positive reinforcement, you know, rather than saying, well, that doesn't look like a boat, like, that would just kill it. You have to bring the spirit that you want to find, I guess.

So there would have to be like a kind of like a setting of the game rules. So to speak, right? Yeah. This is how we're gonna do it. Creativity, no judgments, no criticalness, right? And is there, is that offered, right? Is there in one of the resources? 'Cause I know there is some cool stuff in the book, but is that like, is that type of offer like, hey, if you're gonna bring some people over, I know like you have like connecting online, doing it, and there's some other things, but is there like that type of like, kind of like a game rule of like, hey, if you're gonna do this with friends, like put out there a positive thing, no judgment, no create, you know, don't diss anybody's stuff. I mean, I mean, obviously everybody can create their own rules, but is there kind of a guideline for that somewhere?

I don't think I, I don't think I said specifically. I think I just, I mean, I found in life sometimes it's better to model what you want to happen rather than to say do not do this, if you know what I mean. I, I think in the opening chapters of the book I set out the idea that there's no wrong that play is about, like, saying 'yes, and'— that kind of principle of improvisation. Like, I talk about that in terms of getting into the zone, and then when I talk about the games you do with friends— I'm just having a quick look and I can't see anything saying don't criticise the others, but I think everything I've said is about what you find in each other's play and how you celebrate it. So hopefully it's implied.

Well, I'm thinking about like the people who are like those control freaks, right? This is the right way. No, that's the right way. And then like, you know, I can, again, like there's so many therapeutic ramifications for this where it goes just beyond like doing like play from my perspective, right? Play therapy, but like bringing this to adults in a session, especially couples. I can get how much, right? I can imagine sitting there with one of my couples if I was back in session, right? Not doing everything virtually right now and being like, okay guys, Taking one of those ideas, right? I want you to build something with the letter B. Go. And then watch them engage with each other. And then use that as an intervention to see, right? There's so many, like, this is like the brilliance, like I find like why again, like I told you, like I was so excited to reach out to you. It's like the simplicity of this, like at the level, it's like just playing with a toy as an adult.

Yeah.

Or it could be our, right? I grew up in the '80s. So like He-Man or my GI Joe, right? All this stuff that like, you know, it's probably worth $1,000 if I sold it. Right, if I could find it in one of my parents' houses. But like, the fact that like, on a deeper— and as I was going through this book and enjoying like just the headings of the titles of like how much I find that it's related to like mindfulness and meditation and being zen and therapeutic and these things of like, it's so much safer for people to use an externalized toy to do that healing than it is for them to like maybe go to a therapist or go to the gym or go read a self-help book. That in a way, did you realize that you were writing a self-help book? I mean, you're talking about happiness, but like an inner peace, and it says it right there on the back of the book. But did you like— was part of your mindset is this is a self-help book, but I'm going to kind of sneak it in under the, under the radar?

I think it's the— yeah, it's definitely over the border into self-help land. Yeah, I think so. Um, but not, I mean, Lego won't solve all your problems, but like if you have some niggles, if you have some things that you would like to sort of look at or try to resolve them, I think Lego could be part of it. Especially, I think, I mean, you know, we're in quarantine now and you know, we're socially distancing. Loads of people are alone. I'm really lucky. I live with my husband. So like, We have each other to entertain, but like, you know, I think you, you need, you need a creative outlet. You need something fun to do. And I think Lego's a really nice non-screen-based, non-digital, um, non kind of, uh, like you don't have to do it right. You just do it for yourself.

And it's very tactile and very sensory oriented. I know there's, when you're talking at the beginning about the noise and the feel, tactile, there's a whole new up thing of this, like, for people, I think it's ASMR, right? Where it's very— Right? And I mean, that is a whole nother, like, 5-episode conversation. But the tactile-ness, the sensory-ness, right? For people who have sensory integration issues or just the feel, like you said, like putting those in your hands will probably bring you back to the play of child— to the place of childhood.

So yeah, it brings you to, yeah, it brings you into the moment in a way. And that's comparable to mindfulness. I think I searched for the word mindfulness. I think we used it once in the whole book, because as I mentioned at the start, we started with calm and this book was done in collaboration with the headquarters of Lego in Denmark. And like, I got some really detailed, useful feedback from them and they were like, Yeah, we want to steer away from calm and towards joy. And so they wanted to steer away from the idea that if you play with this book, like, you'll be able to solve your problems. Right. Towards, if you play with this book, you'll have more fun, more joy, and like, in brackets, that might help solve your problems. Yeah.

Well, that goes back to what we were saying before about this, like, law of attraction mindset. And I love sharing this example, 'cause it's so apropos to what you're saying. It's like if we go into a pizza place, we order a pizza, we don't tell them what we don't want. We don't say, "I don't want anchovies. I don't want mushrooms." We talk about more what we want, which is that you want a pizza that's going to taste good to you. Don't tell me about the pizza that doesn't taste good to you. And I do believe that philosophy is so brilliant of whoever specifically said that, I think gets it, where it's like focus more on the things that give you joy, the things that give you pleasure, the things that are more fulfilling, the things that are more in alignment, the things that are playful, the things that make you laugh more, and you're not going to have the time, effort, and energy to waste your time on the things that give you headaches.

Yeah, I think that's such a good point. And like, I think there's something about all creativity and all art that relates to that, because, um, like, I read a quote by Philip Larkin. He's a poet who was— I think he was around in like the '60s and '70s, and a lot of his poems are really miserable, like famously miserable. And yet I think that I heard a quote from him saying that all poetry is itself a positive act. Like to take the time to write the poem, to put that sort of sad feeling into a poem and publish it, like that's an intensely positive thing to do. So like all art, even the art that's quite sad, like all art is positive in that way, and all creativity, like the creative impulse, if you're expressing something sad or something happy, like it It's all positive. Do you see what I mean?

Yeah, because you're getting it outside of you. You're not keeping it stored. You're not shoving it down, right? It's that whole, the feelings buried alive never die.

Right, yeah. And you're, there's a word that's on the tip of my tongue, like you're enabling it. You're giving it value. You're giving it presence in the world.

Right, and you're also externalizing it.

I think we're one word to that.

Yeah, well, you're also like, we're going back to the kind of like using that like a phobia, taking it outside of you and making it something tangible. It's not like, "I'm depressed. I'm sad. I'm angry." It's the feeling of anger, the feeling of sadness, the feeling of despair, right? And you're taking it outside of you so you can look at it from multiple perspectives and multiple angles, just like you would do from a Lego, right? You can move it around, you can, right? Or a Rubik's Cube or whatever it may be. It's no longer something that's like, "This is mine. It's in there and I can't get it out." out, right? I have them emotionally exercise it. Now it becomes a little bit more manipulative, to be able to manipulate it in a positive way. So I think that's actually in the therapeutic world, they call that externalization, you know, and it's a really, really big therapeutic intervention to do with people. So one of the things that I know is probably as much on the positive side of everything we talk about and what the average parent would— you know you're a parent when in the middle of the night you're walking around in your living room without the light on, and all of a sudden there's a sharp pain in the bottom of your foot, and you've probably stepped on a Lego, right?

Yeah.

So let's get in for a few minutes on the pleasure of sorting and putting away.

Okay, so this was suggested to me by my editor at DK. So we were talking about Marie Kondo Is she big in America?

She is. Anybody who has a Netflix special that becomes, uh, apparently it may not be the book, it'll be the Netflix special.

But like Marie Kondo's been huge here too, and, um, there's something very therapeutic about sorting out your stuff, knowing where it is. And, um, and I think when, like, at the moment the world is unknowably strange and difficult. And I personally, I'm finding a sort of strange dissonance between how pleasant my life is and how scary the news is. And as you said, you were talking about, I think before we started recording, about like looking for the good news and maybe steering away from the news news, you know. Because it can bring you down. I am coming to the answer, but like, there's a feeling you can feel that things are out of control because like the current situation, there's nothing we can do to fix it. We can change our actions to, to respond to it responsibly, but, um, it, it's worrying. It can feel— we can feel out of control and I think like Marie Kondo offered you the chance to sort out at least your stuff, sort out the place you live and feel good about that. And then at least that's not bringing you down and then you're equipped to go out and cope with what else is happening. So that was a long way of saying that when you sort out your Lego pieces, it can make you feel better. Yeah. So I've got another show and tell for you.

Fantastic.

So this, so I'm just gonna hold this up. It's a little thing of plastic boxes that all fit together in a holder. So it looks like a little, right?

So it looks like a plastic tool bin for like drill bits or nails and screws. It's a 4x4, so there's 16 compartments in what you're holding up and each one has its own little individual handle and drawer. Yeah.

Go on.

Each one comes out. It was from a hardware shop.

Perfect, there you go.

Yeah, so one day I just started sorting out the pieces into individual pots, so like this one has like kind of cog-shaped pieces in it, so you could build a Roman column with them or you could make robot arms out of them.

And they're all pretty similar in the color scheme. In those.

So it's not—

those are more of the khaki, white, and beige type, right?

Yeah, and this one has got eyes, and I'm not sure what those black things are. They could be ears, but like, basically it's got eyes and ears in it. Then I've got one, I think this you might like. This has got hats hats and flippers. So like just the act of going through your pieces and just like sorting them, it can just make you feel— you can make you feel— it can be oddly happy-making. That's all I can say. Exactly.

So the reason why you brought up the hats, before we were talking, I was telling you one of my friends— so I wanted to give a shout out to a buddy of mine. So I have a friend who, when he was dating, he was concerned that a woman would not date him based on his job. We live in Miami and sometimes it can be that way. He used to tell women when they asked him what he would do for work, he goes, "Did you ever see the hats on LEGO people?" They'd be like, "Yeah, yeah, I've seen those things." He's like, "Yeah, well, I designed those." That was his running joke about— he has the best job in the world of little LEGO man and LEGO hats, right? As you're holding up, it looks like a Minion hat and a LEGO hat. Little, right? Yeah, a little motorbike hat, a little hat, and yeah, motorcycle, which are really cool because I've never seen any of those. But it's so funny because every time now I see a LEGO person wearing a hat, I automatically think about my buddy Simon. So Simon, when you're listening to this, shout out here.

So I think, I mean, obviously there it's useful if you were doing a build, if you thought, oh, I need some eyes, I'll go into the little little box of eyes, which is also a disturbing image, but, or I need some accessories or I need some like one piece, like, you know, like one unit pieces or some four unit pieces or flat pieces or bendy pieces. Like, I think it's just a pleasing thing to do. I mean, it's useful and you get to choose how you sort the pieces. Like you could sort them by color, by shape, by function.

So if people have like different kits, like they have like, let's say a Star Wars kit, or they've— I mean, for a lot of people it's like, no, no, this belongs there, this is the Star Wars thing, or this is my— I don't know, like, are you— so two questions that are coming out of this. One is that this might be a psychological thing for people to be like, these things don't go together, how can I challenge my thinking about it, right? And you're saying the rules don't apply. You can put all of your space stuff in one bin and all of your— and it doesn't have to be a Star Wars versus a Star Trek. It doesn't have to be so compartmentalized, right? Is that kind of what you're offering by showing this? Like, you can kind of— yeah, you can rearrange and resort your life and resort your Legos in the same way.

Yeah, and there's also no— there's no entirely satisfactory way of doing it either, I think, because I've still got a big box of mixed up pieces, and then I thought I'll have the one unit pieces, but hang on, that's all It's like, like you start doing it, you realize you'll never do it perfectly. And you can like—

and like 3 months down the road, you're like, nope, I'm gonna restart it. I'm gonna find some other way that's more pleasing to me right now. This now makes more sense, which is a constant evolution of how we do things in our life. Again, it's very metaphorical and very psychological as I'm hearing you say it. So now I want to go back to like, just for a moment, to like the beginning. Like, where— if someone doesn't have Legos, like, right? I know like you can go to any of the big department stores, or is there one you would say, "Hey, here's where you should start," or is it kind of like, "Go find something that appeals to you"? Where would one go to be like, "This is kind of maybe an entry-level, easy peasy," or just go straight for the Millennium Falcon edition of like, you know?

Yeah, you know you need about £400 or something to finally get started.

To get started, right.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, also LEGO's not the cheapest toy, and it lasts, it lasts forever as far as I can tell. So I'm— but you know, it's— I've been getting LEGO kits for birthdays and Christmas because you don't just buy it on a— it's like a paperback book is, is cheaper in a way than like a massive big box of LEGO. But the ones I found that I really like are the yellow— there's a yellow set and they're called Creator. I think, and basically they are sets that are designed for all ages and the aim of them is just to give you pieces that you can start creating with. So instead of buying a kit to build like a hoverbot or like a tractor or Big Ben, they just give you a selection of pieces and a selection of ideas. So That's my tip, to look out for the yellow boxes, because then you're not tied to, you're not tied to like, oh well, these big wheels always have to go at the back and the small wheels get the front and the screen is like this, because the pieces they offer you are a bit more general. But I think if you had a kit that was like a speedboat or a castle or, you know, the Empire State Building, like whatever you have, you can create something else with those pieces. So I think whatever Lego that you can find, if it's upstairs in the attic or if it's your kid's Lego and you want to borrow it, just like the whole point of the book was that you shouldn't be limited by not having the right pieces. There are no right pieces.

And one of the best places that I'm hearing to find a lot of these is going to garage sales. And going around and like definitely find like, oh yeah, right? And then people are just ready to get rid of them and you can buy. I don't know if you're familiar with Gary Vaynerchuk, Gary Vee, like he's really big on garage selling and then flipping stuff. But he has some really awesome videos of like when he goes to like a garage sale and you'll see like this set of like 500 Lego pieces and he'll be like, I'll give you $20 for it, you know? So like, and they'll be like, oh, okay. He's like, all right, $25. And they're like, oh my God, I got $25 for this crap that's been sitting in my, in my garage for God knows, right? And they're just happy to get $25. So be And be creative, right, if you're listening out there, right? I mean, right now, we're in the time of social isolation, right? Obviously, it's not necessarily a thing, but maybe posting it on Facebook or using your social media. If you're finding that this is compelling you to want to go out and do this, put a post up on your Facebook and be like, "Hey friends, do you have your Lego set that's no longer being used and you want to either lend it out to me or you want to give it away? Happy to come pick it up from you," right? As you're Marie Kondo-ing it, you know? Yeah. So right now, especially, find a way, right? Leverage your social networks, people. But again, there's so much cool insights. So again, I just wanted to give one more shout-out for the book, right, as I have it sitting here also, right? It's Build Yourself Happy. I posted it in— if you're listening to us on Facebook right now, it's in the chat, but also you'll see in the show notes, but you can also just go right on Amazon. It's Build Yourself Happy: The Joy of LEGO Play. And before we go, is there anything, whether it's about the writing process or this specific book or something else in your life that you feel like, "I would be remiss if I didn't share this with your listeners," and I really would want them to maybe walk away with something? Oh, wow. Something that off the top of your head, you're like, "You know what? This is kind of like my on one foot thing. If I can give this over, this would be really useful." Is there anything that comes to your mind?

Okay, yeah, thank you. Thank you for giving me enough time to come up with the one foot thing there. Yeah, there's one thing. It's the one activity that I put in the book right at the start, and they had an internal sales conference at DK where like the editor pitches the book to all the sales staff, and this meeting went on for about 6 hours, and she said everyone was kind of like dying of boredom. They'd been inside. This is like long before the lockdown. This is last summer sometime, and one of the activities in the book is about building with your eyes shut. So you take a selection of pieces and you close your eyes and you just put them together, and you don't know what it's gonna be until you open your eyes. And she said that everyone was given a small bag of Lego and everyone started doing it, and she said the energy in the room completely changed because they just thought it was hilarious. There was something about something odd about closing your eyes in a room full of people. There was something like odd and ridiculous about building something that you can't see, and then you open your eyes and you find out what it is, and it's like nothing you would ever build because like, like you couldn't see it and it doesn't make any sense, but it could be something. And that little bit of play, that little bit of risk, she said like the whole room was re-energized and they were all laughing. And so that's my one tip. If you have some Lego, try building with your eyes closed.

Awesome. Awesome. So for everybody out there, if you've gotten any value from today's episode with Abby, please go out and get her book. It's, it's really, it's a fun, easy read. Like I think it maybe took me less than like an hour and change to go through it. And so many awesome things now to do the stuff that's in the book will take you, right? It's, there's some really incredible applicable things that like you were like, We've been talking about the psychology and then the joy, literally, right? The book is called The Joy of LEGO Play. And there's so many really cool things that you share with people that you can do, that we can do with our LEGOs. You know, there's some stuff about establishing routines and so much that will help make our life much more joyful. So if you're out there and you found value in this, please go out and treat yourself to this book, especially again, if we're in social isolation, now's a good time to treat yourself to some good gifts and to the people you love some good gifts. Gifts. So Abby, thank you again for spending time with us today. Congratulations on this book. And I very much look forward to having you and continuing this conversation again in the future for perhaps the next— is there another project that you're working on that's in the works?

There isn't one at the moment, but yeah, there could be. Who knows?

Awesome.

Thank you so much for having me.

My absolute pleasure. We'll talk again soon.

Thanks for listening to the You Winning Life podcast. If you If you are ready to minimize your personal and professional struggles and maximize your potential, we would love it if you subscribed so you don't miss an episode. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook @JasonWasserLMFT 🎗️