Ep. 75- The Future Of Mind-Body Healing with Neuro Emotional Technique Founder, Dr. Scott Walker

This is the You Winning Life podcast, your number one source for mastering a positive existence. Each episode, we'll be interviewing exceptional people, giving you empowering insights, and guiding you to extraordinary outcomes. Learn from specialists in the worlds of integrative and natural wellness, spirituality, psychology, and entrepreneurship so you too can be winning life. Now here's your host, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified neuro-emotional technique practitioner, trainer and certified entrepreneur coach, Jason Wasser. Hey everybody, welcome back. Today I am insanely excited and honored to be spending the next bit of time with Dr. Scott Walker, who is not only a chiropractor, researcher, philosopher, Santa Claus during the winter seasons and perhaps even throughout the year, mentor and founder of the NeuroEmotional Technique practice and modality, which is something that I personally stumbled upon as a patient/client before I actually became a practitioner. So, Dr. Walker, I don't even know if you know this story, but we'll get into that. But I'm just so excited and honored to be spending this time with you, and I'm really looking forward to our conversation over the next little bit.

Yeah, great. I'm actually interested in that story that I was just thinking about what I might be talking about today. Didn't think a lot about it, but my story basically goes, I was minding my own business one day and then, so I was wondering what happened to you, you were a client and then what?

And then a month later, right? So you're about 10 years ago. So it's 2000— we're right September of 2020 right now. So about 10 years ago, I was going through separation into my divorce and I was having major panic attacks during that process. And I tried everything. I went to acupuncture and I did Chinese herbs and I went to a friend of mine who's a neurologist who is an incredible practitioner and is probably the only person I refer to when a client actually needs medication. He's the only person I do refer to because this whole thing is how quickly can we get you off of this? Mindset and a very compassionate and loving healer, and nothing was working for me. And I did a workshop down at University of Miami with Dr. Janet Knauffel, and part of the workshop brought in some aspects of NET, explaining it in theory. And a colleague of ours, Dr. Larry Goodman, was there assisting her and did a demo in front of our group. And I remember those weekends that I was there, I was literally holding it together during the workshop and trying my best to be like, "No, but I need to use this. I want this for my clients. I want this for my clients." And it turns out a mutual friend that I had, when I started explaining what I was doing, like, "Oh, I think a friend of mine does this," and referred me to another colleague and friend of ours, Leah Seggy. And I actually grew up with her two, her twin boys. And I went to her first session, and within 2 to 3 sessions, my panic attacks disappeared. And I remember specifically, I was walking into the back of my old office parking, going to my building, the thought that would trigger me came to my mind. And I remember the feeling was that it was like there was Vaseline on my brain. And then it just slipped away. And I'm like, that was really weird. And then I went back for my next session. And then other stuff started disappearing. And I think it was no longer than a month to 2 months after that, that I signed up for my first NET Basics seminar. It was in Orlando. And I remember walking into a room and people are like poking each other and using this arm thing. And I knew there was muscle testing and I knew it existed. I never knew as a therapist I can do it. And I'm like, all these people are figuring this stuff out in seconds. And I'm like, I can ask you questions. You know, I felt so inept as a healer until the end of that seminar when I started coming home and I started using this modality, you know, this modality specifically with my clients. And that was the beginning of this incredible journey now that I've had with our NET community and our NET family. So, you know, and now you know where I stand as far as a practitioner and philosopher when it comes to everything that I'm doing as a healer now in my therapy and coaching practice. So that was my deep dive into the rabbit hole of, you know, I thought I was into integrative and alternative medicine before that, but then I met these people, these NET practitioners. So I want to go back and like, Like, I mean, there's so many wonderful stories about how N.E.T. got created, but, you know, the Dr. Scott Walker story of like, how did you stumble into this? Like, where were you? You know, you were a chiropractor. When did this like stuff really get introduced to you? I know that there's some of your stories that you had a mentor who was a chiropractor when you were a child. Um, where do you want to start? Because I think there's so many wonderful teachable moments to share with the community.

Well, I'll start talking and you can put the rudder on me. It all starts wherever it starts. And where it started for me was my mother's a nurse and my father was a mechanic and you cross those two, you get a chiropractor. That wasn't too hard. And I was raised in a very rural area, just over the border from West Virginia. And so my background was looking out my window every day at a herd of Black Angus. Cattle. And I noticed that these cattle seemed to be doing fine in life. They were going fine. And I contrasted that to my mother, who basically made our kitchen into a dispensary because we were so rural, and she— there weren't any medical doctors around. And so basically she had a practice. She never took a dime, you know, not a penny. And our refrigerator was half full of drugs. And, and here all these sad-looking patients were coming to see my mother And I'd look at them, I was just teenager, preteen, teenager, and I'd look outside and I'd see these healthy Black Angus cattle. And I'd look back at these people in my kitchen and I look, you know, and what's going on here? It looked like the cattle were doing better than the people. And I thought, why is that? Why is that? And I started to be in touch with nature at that time and started to understand about how the rain comes down and the grass comes up and then all the stuff that the cycles of life, the beauty of that, the web of life. And so my background was, you know, I liked the natural world that I was living in until one day I had a football injury and the football injury took me to chiropractor. And back in that socioeconomic environment, people use chiropractors quite a bit. And I went to see this guy and he took care of my football injury, but then he reached up And, uh, he, he grabbed my neck and he said, wow, you're carrying a lot of pressure in there. Well, what he didn't know at that time was that I had headaches every day of my life, every single day. So I know now at this point I'm 15, all right? So, uh, he didn't know that because he didn't take a very good case history and I didn't tell him. I was there for my football injury and he said, yeah, well, you got a lot of pressure. Should I adjust it? And I I think I said, "Is it extra?" And so he said, "No," and he adjusted, and my headache went away. Unexpected. I didn't expect that. What's going on? Minding my own business, all of a sudden my headache's gone. It was a miracle. I thought, this is what I have to do for people. I have to learn how to do this so I can help people. And I knew then what I was going to do. I went to chiropractic school, learned how to do that, got out and was ready to heal the world, you know, and some people did have some really nice miraculous type results, some mediocre results, and every once in a while I get a hold of these people that didn't have any results, or they get some results and then they had to come back again, and I didn't know what was going on with that, and my dream was evaporating, you know, wait a minute, I'm going, I'm here to heal the world. I was so naive. I'm here to heal, what's going on here? What's happening to my dream right in front of me? In front of my eyes that these people aren't getting well. Well, it actually was a little bit sad when I started to realize that I wasn't fulfilling what I wanted to do in life. And I eventually figured out that these people, the ones that were not responding, I figured out by sometimes talking to them, but sometimes just by looking at the dimness of their eyes, that they had some psychological stuff going on, I guess. And so I've— what do you do? Well, you send them to a psychologist. Well, I sent them to a psychologist, and I'm sure they were all helped by the psychologist, but they weren't— they weren't helped with the particular issue that was causing their particular physical problem. Okay, so this is, as you know, this is called psychosomatic, whenever it's— it comes from the psyche into the body, the soma. Psychosomatic. Psychosomatic. You can have lots of issues, which you know better than I do, but which issues are those which are being somatized? Which are the issues, particular issues that are causing problems in the physical being? And that was the rub. And so I looked around, there wasn't anywhere to go learn. I took lots of seminars, different kinds of disciplines, acupuncture and homeopathy and applied kinesiology and all kinds of things. And I did go to one seminar, there was a gal there by the name of Jennifer Lamonica out of New York, And she said that she would sometimes adjust somebody and then they would think about the accident that got them in her office in the first place and all their symptoms would come back on the spot. Whoa! So I took what I knew of acupuncture and the Five Element Law, which correlates specific organs and meridians with specific emotions. I took my knowledge of that and I put it together with muscle testing and homeopathy and a few things. Anyhow, I came up with this package called NET, Neuro-Emotional Technique. And hey, that was pretty good. Well, as my culture would have it, I had lots of patients that were chiropractors. Sometimes it was 11 or 11:30 before I'd had one paying person because I never charged my fellow chiropractors. I said, "Look at the watch." I said, "I can't make a living." Anyhow, these chiropractors were getting results that they hadn't. They had chronic conditions and they were coming in and were getting results. And I said, "What are you doing? What's this crazy looking stuff?" And so one of my friends, Bob Curry, was a chiropractor also. He said, "Look, Scott, I'm gonna get a seminar set up. Come in and teach it on Saturday. These guys should know what's going on." And I said, "Oh, okay." Never dreaming that that would be any, my first of many seminars. I just thought, okay, because at the time I was into fishing, you know. And so anyhow, we'd had the seminar, and you know what had happened? I think it was on a Saturday. I know it was on Saturday. And then Monday came along, and I started getting calls from these guys and telling me about chronic patients that were getting results right away. And I was delighted with that. That's pretty good. And And so then one thing led to another and I taught another seminar, another seminar, and chiropractors aren't any different than any other profession. We're all jealous and we're all insecure. And so some of the chiropractors were saying, "Hey, I noticed there was an acupuncturist that came into this seminar." I said, "Yeah, well, are you gonna teach it to acupuncturists?" I said, "Hardly not because it's based on the Five Element Law, which goes back 1,500, 2,000 years. We could hardly not invite them in, you know?" Somehow or other, the psychologist kind of caught on to what was going on here. There was some crazy stuff going on with these psychologists. And of course, NET is based on a lot of repetition compulsion, which came out of Freud and Pavlov, which really isn't psychology. Pavlov was a physiologist. And, but the backgrounds of the psychologist and myself and repetition compulsion, which I can explain more if you want me to, but basically we could hardly not invite the psychologist. And then I said, oh my God, well, the truth is not based on any one profession. The truth is based on whatever the truth is. And so I started teaching all kinds of practitioners. As you know, whenever you went to your first seminar, there were all kinds of people in that room.

Yeah.

And they were doing what they did. So basically came out to this. And so 30-some years later, here I am. In the meantime, we started a foundation, the ONE Research Foundation, and we started doing research on this stuff. And I'm glad we did because NET, as you know, at first glance, it looks a little flaky.

It's out there, right? It looks like this tree-huggy, hippie-dippy, weird thing with your arm going up and down, and we're gonna poke you at different points on your body, and we're gonna find your issue.

Did you say huggy?

Tree-huggy, tree-huggy, tree-huggy.

Oh, I see. So anyhow.

We hug, we definitely hug.

Whatever it was, there I was minding my own business and suddenly we have a foundation going and we're turning in research which is getting positive results on everything that we researched. It wasn't headaches, backaches, or people's dramas only that were being fixed. It was a true mind-body experience because your body, as you were saying, and I didn't know your story by the way, but you were having panic attacks, would you call that anxiety? And, uh, that manifests in your body, your heart and your perspiration, and you're just— what ever comes over you. And so that is, uh, something that's manifesting physiologically in your body, having, you might say, a psychic origin. And, um, so we were researching things that were mind manifesting and also things that were body manifesting, and came into being, that was a mind-body model. Well, do you know when I started this back in 1988, mind-body was just a term that was just beginning to be used.

Right, right.

Here, it's been a mind-body since however long mankind's been around, 60,000, 80,000, 250,000 years, or by some accounts. And mind and body have always been together, but it was René Descartes 300 years ago That a brilliant guy, of course, but he said that the body was the body and the mind was the mind and they were separate entities. So they were studied that way for 300 years.

And is that the way the kind of the medical profession kind of shifted at that point? Because I know that there's a difference in philosophies and different approaches, and I think that's what makes more of this integrative right now. When I, when I use the word integrative, it is integrating back the mind and body philosophy versus the neck up body-down approach. Is that probably where all this did get started in the medical healing communities?

Where what got started?

Where that, that differentiation between the psychosomatic or soma-psychi differentiation versus, you know, the, the disconnection of no, no, what's happening in your head is happening in your head, and what's happening in your body is happening in your body. Oh, and then we're going to separate another body part away from the rest of your body, and we're only going to treat that. Is that kind of— wait, do you think that philosophy started shifting or that's kind of where that started coming from and where that's led us to?

Well, I think it started with Descartes. I think that they— he split it, and from that point on, he was brilliant. He's a mathematician, a philosopher, and so he, he split it, and then no one saw any reason to put it together. So it wasn't put together. It was in the East, in acupuncture, and Samuel Hahnemann basically had a handle on it about 100 and 50 years ago, let's say, and with homeopathy. So homeopathy and acupuncture both saw the mind and the body as being one entity, but the traditional medicine, you're right, traditional medicine just built on mind and body being separate, mind and body being separate, mind and body being separate until we had a scientist by the name of Candace Pert, who was the chief of brain science at the National Institutes of Health, And she established scientifically that there were molecules that were called neuropeptides, and that these, these neuropeptides would be generated and have an effect on the body and on the mind. And so then in the 1980s, that's the first I remembered anyhow, was there any publicity at all about this quote, new.

It's breakthrough, scientific revolution. Yeah.

And, uh, so I started seeing magazines and Mind Body and Time magazine and things like that. And, uh, there I was minding my own business. I didn't— never thought about those kind of things. I was just trying to get my patients well, for God's sakes. You know, never thought about philosophically about those things. But that's when yourself and other far-seeing practitioners we started to see what we had here. Wait a minute, what we have here is a mind-body intervention that benefits both the mind and the body. And it is a philosophical mistake, and unfortunately it's reflected in clinical results or lack thereof, if we don't see these two parts of the same organism. I like to call it the organism because the organism has both the mind and the body. So we have this organism that is manifesting for people either ill health or health. And the way that we have to fix it is we have to go in and get that mind-body connection taken care of, which is a whole nother subject about how we do that. As you know, it's— it looks so simple on the outside. The actual intervention looks so simple from the outside. But when you parse it and you see all the interacting pieces, as you know, we have 15 separate steps to get to the outcome. And the practitioner, we have to work. Our mind is working and working and working.

It's an art and a craft at the same time.

It is. And you know what is really good about it? And you'll be happy to know this. You get better and better and better and better even beyond where you are now. I mean, as you get older like me, like an old man, you're going to be You're gonna be really hot. You're good already, right? Right. It keeps on getting better.

I'm flashing back to— it was probably a week or two after that seminar, that first basic seminar, and I remember, um, Dr. Kevin Dennerman, one of the teachers and amazing people in our community, um, said like— no, literally, like, he's like, I put my binder on my clients when I first started doing this, and I was flipping through the pages while I was adjusting them as a chiropractor. I'm like, Okay, I'm going to have one of my clients hold the binder for me in my office while I'm doing this thing. And I come back and I'm like, I know this is going to sound weird. I'm taking this training. You know, I'm into all this integrative natural stuff. Would you be willing to be my guinea pig? Not going to charge. The right question, is it going to cost me more? Right? Like you asked your guy, right? Like, no, part of the price of admission. Would you be willing to help me? And I asked, right? I got that permission from my client. And I remember them holding the binder. And we got stuck on something. And I remember at the end of the seminar, one of the last slides of the workshop was, if you have any questions, here's the NET office number in California. Okay. So I call. I'm like, I'm really stuck and I really want to help this in the middle of my session. I'm like, can I call? You know, it's on their time. I'm like, yeah. And someone answers the phone, a lovely woman. And I'm asking a question and I just, you know, I caught the name, but I didn't really process the name. Literally, That specific lovely, wonderful woman walks me through the protocol step by step while I'm working with my patient in the office. And then at the end, I said, "All right, thank you so much again. Who was this again? Just so like if I call back, like you were just so helpful." She's like, "Oh, it's Dr. Deb." I'm like, "Oh, oh my gosh." And for the people who do not know, Dr. Deb is Dr. Scott's wife and co-facilitator and just you know, the family mama for all of us. And I really did not ever expect, right, that. And just the commitment to healing on so many levels with someone that she's never met. But I just took a basic seminar, wasn't— I wasn't even certified. I wasn't like— I was the newbie. And just that commitment to the healing just proved how committed and powerful this NET community is when it comes to this process.

Yes, and something that you know, and that is that there is such a heartfelt bond between all these different practitioners of different disciplines. I think, if I could say it, I think we were all lost. I think we were all lost out there in our own profession, and we didn't see that there was a whole nother half of what was going on with this human being for the the body-educated people like myself, oh my God, look at this territory of the mind. This is amazing. And for mind practitioners, oh my goodness, look what the information the body can give us. So that's what happens. You're minding your own business, you're going through life, and all of a sudden—

all of a sudden this thing smacks you in the face when you don't realize how much you need it.

Yeah. Yeah.

So that process, right? I just want to go back into that process of what you were explaining of, you know, I also want to kind of debunk this myth because I've never had the opportunity I need to do this beyond with my clients. When people talk about chiropractic and this misnomer that, you know, and unfortunately this belief of you have to go in 3, 4 times a week and it doesn't get solved, then maybe you have to do these packages. And I explained that there's this whole other side of the chiropractic field, um, you know, and maybe I see it kind of as this, you know, duality in a way, but like this applied kinesiology, which eventually led you to creating your Home Run Formula. And when that gets addressed, that's what you were talking about when it solves much more efficiently than having the mind and body split up and fractured into multiple parts and going to multiple practitioners. So can you talk a little bit about that, about applied kinesiology, your entry into that world, even a little bit like, you know, Dr. Goodheart for people who— most people probably have never heard of Dr. Goodheart, and then that home run formula package that came out of it?

Oh, those are good questions. Um, D.D. Palmer was the founder of chiropractic in 1895, and at that time he saw that the mind and the body were one thing, one entity. And he didn't know what he had either. He— his first patient was adjusting a deaf guy, you know, and his hearing came back unfortunately. And you don't know how many deaf people I failed on. So, but anyhow Because of the political legal situation at the turn of the century in the 1900s and medicine and laws and all kinds of things, chiropractic evolved or devolved. Eventually it became not just a, a mind-body idea, but it actually became a physical thing. It became musculoskeletal. Although even just using musculoskeletal approaches sometimes got miraculous results, like my own that I was talking about. But, um, so then we got in World War II and the guys went— the veterans came back and went to chiropractic school, and then blah blah blah, everything is going along fine, and, uh And then what happened, there was this guy by the name of George Goodhart whose father was a chiropractor who I believe went to one of D.D. Palmer's schools, not the original school, but basically got the idea. Here's what makes chiropractors unique and what we have probably infected the psychotherapists with. We have this, um, paradigm, this mindset that the body has an intelligence in it that knows how to heal. That we, we know that, that if we set it free, it'll do it. Like when I got my headache, like my, my doctor didn't even know I had headaches, right? But he set the energy free so that— so here we are, we're going along and we have this innate intelligence in us, and that's what we call it in chiropractic. That is one of the building blocks that we've come forward with. Well, George Goodheart had that mindset. And he came up with this thing called muscle testing, which was another thing that's one of those things that you look at and think, what's that all about? But it has had a lot of research done in, like, kinesiology. And I learned from Dr. Goodhart. He was an amazing man, God bless him. He was just— I'm sorry, I'm going to get choked up here. This guy made such a contribution to the world. And, um, and what we learned, uh, from the muscle test is we learned we could get information from the body if we interpret it right, which is sometimes overlooked. But if it's done properly, the muscle test will give you all kinds of information from the body. So George Goodhart taught us this amazing thing called the muscle test. The muscle test, you see, is muscles are facilitated or inhibited by the nervous system. So you have the sensory cortex, the motor cortex, And then the motor cortex puts energy into the nerve, which goes out to the muscle. Neuromuscular junction is there. And so if something happens higher up in the brain, concepts, those concepts have their own influence on the central nervous system, including the motor output, which can have an influence on the strength of the muscle. So it's a biofeedback. Mechanism. Biofeedback cycle, I guess, is the best thing that I could say. Now, I don't think I answered all your questions. What did I forget already?

So, so in that world of applied kinesiology, yeah, which is— which has a different— enhanced, maybe I would say, not different, but an enhanced approach, um, than standard chiropractic, where it started now going into meridians, and meridians are connected to the body organs, the body organs connected to emotions, which is that Chinese medicine. So kind of It seems to me from my research over the last years and my conversations with people who are involved in the AK world, and just as a side note, so when I first went to that basic, I mean, there was so many wonderful stories I've had from my first few weekends with the NET community. And I remember people are using this word, AK, AK, AK. And in the Jewish community, AK is the abbreviation for alte kaker, which is a Yiddish phrase, which basically means like a really old person. And I always grew up like, you know, like living in Miami, right? People joke that like you come to Florida to retire and to, you know, eventually no longer be in this world. But like, it was like, oh, that AK, that Alta Cocker can't drive, right? So I'm like hearing like, what is like, what is like, what is this AK thing? Like, there's no one, like, there's no, like, you know, it just like was all these like wonderful phraseologies that I was learning. There's a whole new language and a whole new, right? And a whole new culture that I like had to wrap my brain around. And I just remember just like this, this experience of like having to understand, because I've been to chiropractors before and I knew someone who did muscle testing and healed something with my ex. And he's like, and then indexed for time. And I remember this, and his name was Harvey Wasserman, and he passed away a bunch of years ago. It wasn't N.E.T., but he found something. And I remember my ex called her mom and she's like, yeah, you don't remember? You were this old when you fell off the slide and you You hit your tailbone. And it was like, holy crap, this is insane. And was causing her to have pain in menstrual cycle and stuff like that. And I'm like, this sucks that I can't do this as a therapist. And it wasn't until I walked into an NET seminar after this program with Dr. Knaufel at University of Miami that I kind of— all the pieces started coming together for me. And then this whole new world of stuff that they never taught. They didn't teach neurology in my master's, even though we're systemic trained systems theory-based cybernetics-based approaches as marriage and family therapy, but we didn't get into neurology. We didn't get into all of these things. And it was still a little bit of like, you know, it was worldview. We talked a lot about emotional reality and we play in that, but we didn't get into it the way that NET teaches it. And I'm like, I can't imagine being a practitioner now from that point of view versus this point of view. And I joke with people and I say, God forbid, if I ever had to, if someone asked me, Jason, you can never, you have to give up your license and never be a marriage and family therapist again, or you can never practice NET again. It's a no, it's a non, it's, there's no, it's a split-second answer. I'll give up my license and never practice as an LMFT 🎝 so I can only do NET for the rest of my life if that's my option, right? I can only do one or the other. And that's how powerful and how much, how committed I am to this healing modality that, that has been created. So just to take it a step further, this, this understanding of emotions in the body, these body organs, these Chinese medicine meridian theory, and then how that, like you said, like it infected hopefully, right, the outside world of psychology. Where did you— where was that aha moment for you when you like the pieces came together? And I know the offshoot of that, like the last question was leading into that was the Home Run Formula for you. So like, when did that— like, when do you remember like really like getting that clear? And what was going on then?

Sorry for the silence. Yeah, um, well, the Home Run Formula is just a recognition of the mind-body as an organism and, uh a mind practitioner, as in your former incarnation, your pre-NET incarnation, a mind practitioner, uh, you were actually still— unless you told your patients not to eat, you were already practicing the Home Run Formula because there has to be nutrition, right? Just take it as a— but you have to have all the piece parts together, so Dr. Goodhart told us, you know, you have to watch out for this and watch out for that. There are other things. And I had the first base on the Home Run Formula. For those people that are just listening, that you can't see it, you know, you have your first base, second base, third base, and home plate. And the first base in our formula is the emotions. And the emotions are very important. The emotions are why the patient comes in to see us anyhow, or in your case, you call them clients, I guess. So why? What's their motivation? Then once they're there, are they dragging any stuff with them that they picked up when they were younger? The answer to that question is almost always yes. That we've all— because our nervous systems are not evolved enough yet, because we have so much stress on our nervous systems, some things happen to us and they stick in our nervous systems and they don't resolve. Most of the time when we have something happened to us, like Pavlov's dog. And where I come from in the country, there can be dogs that get gun-shy, you know. And so they— you have these, uh, responses, and sometimes— most of the time they resolve, and sometimes they don't. From where I am right now, there's a church, and that church on the hour rings a bell, right? So That for dogs, if they were Pavlov's dog, if it was conditioned to a bell, the dog would be dry by noon, you know, because it'd be salivating all day long. All morning. So what happens to these conditioned responses is there's a process known as extinction. And the extinction process is when the stimulus no longer elicits that same response. And that's the way it's supposed to be. That's healthy. But if we hold on to something that happened when we were 6 or 8 or something happened to us and it didn't extinguish, then we've got problems. Okay, that's where NET comes along. And we, by virtue of the passion of the emotion, we use that emotion that is so unpleasant to actually do the healing. So I have roses and I go out every once in a while, I'll get a thorn It'll stick in my shin or stick in my arm. And if it's a small one, I have to get another thorn and I have to put it right beside the first thorn so it acts like a little wedge. So I take out that thorn. And so you use a thorn to get the thorn out. Well, in N.A.T., we use the emotion to get the emotion out. And which is kind of second nature to you and me right now because we do it so often. And so we just— the Home Run Formula is a recognition that it is a mind-body. The third base for people— for second base is toxicity, and we use homeopathy for that, which uses the principle of like cures like, which is the thorn and the thorn, the same as first base. Second base is the same thing. We use the same toxin that's in the homeopathy to get rid of the toxin that's in the body, usually emotional manifestations that are coming out of that. Then third base, of course, is nutrition, which we all need. And fourth base, well, we're back to chiropractic now and adjustments in the spine and so forth like that. So I'm going to go off just for a second. So chiropractic, what has happened is a lot of chiropractic, we don't have specialties like they have in medicine just yet, but there are some chiropractors that are musculoskeletal-oriented and they do a great job super. And there are others that are more holistically minded and look at more things like the Home Run Formula. But what it really comes down to, Jason, is this: in the 1970s, a guy by the name of Engel, I think was his name, he wrote a book, or a paper rather, on the biopsychosocial model. The biopsychosocial model was preceded by the biomedical model. The biomedical model Engel said that you have a disease in your body and it's biological and that you can do tests and run different sorts of examinations and find out where the problem is. But Engel pointed out that the person brings their mind into the consultation room too. The mind, how does the person feel about that? Maybe they don't want to deal with the wife at home or the husband at home, and they're trying to avoid it, so they start drinking or they do behaviors that are harmful to the person. And so what we have now is the biopsychosocial model. And what a wonderful time, I'm so glad we're doing this. You mentioned it was September 2020, and this is just unprecedented. We have a biopsychosocial Social, social. COVID-19 is a big social environment. We have an election, whoo! And we've got all kinds of social pressures on people right now that we haven't seen, but it really brings out the social part of the biopsychosocial model. So, biopsychosocial, that's, um, Adder, he came up with, uh, the idea of psychoneuroimmunology, seeing that what people think, what they feel, which can be influenced by the outside society, the social part, but what they feel inside is affecting the immune system. And therefore, just our thoughts, which always, by the way, always have emotion attached to them, thoughts always have emotion, attached to them. But our thoughts with those attached emotions can influence our immune system. Whoa, what are we talking about here? Psychoneuroimmunology.

Whoa, it's blasphemy to be looking at that from that perspective.

So anytime that, uh, you, Jason Wasser, or I'm taking care of a patient, regardless of what complaint they have, regardless of it's a physical complaint or behavioral complaint, something happening in their drama, but every time that we do N.E.T. on them, we are going in and working with the emotional part of that, which can only enhance the immune system, can only enhance the immune system. And so there you go. What are we doing in life? We are going through life. I think there's two worlds out there. One of them is called the inside the skin world, and the other one's called outside the skin world. So the outside the skin world right now is all these dramas going out in society as COVID-19 and elections and politics and riots and things like that are going on. But we've always had that. I was born in 1944 and I watched the veterans coming home from World War II. They were shot up, they had scars, they had tales. The Holocaust, oh, it was just a horrible time for mankind. Horrible. Horrible. And they tell me even before that, the planet was in bad shape. Okay. So what are we going to do now? Well, what we're going to do now and what the One Research Foundation is all about, we want to change all that. We want to fundamentally change the way people are looking at health and delivering health and let everybody know there is a mind-body that's all working together. That we as individual practitioners, regardless of our training, can have a conversation with each other. We have a dialogue with each other. We have a common language with each other that maybe in my chiropractic, maybe I didn't know how to deal with addictions or I didn't know how to deal with divorces or I didn't know how to do some of that stuff. And in your training, maybe you didn't know how to deal with some aspects of nutrition or something, but that's okay. We've got the common language. We're starting at first base. And we have a language together. So this— the One Research Foundation has done— oh, Jason Wasser, it's groundbreaking. It's— I mean, in other words, not a penny from the government, not one penny from the government, but from practitioners like yourself and others. We put together a study where we took pictures of the brain, actual functional MRIs, before and after the NET intervention. This was— this group of patients happened to be cancer survivors, and they had a lot of drama about their cancer diagnosis, to the point where they didn't even want to go see their oncologist. They didn't want to think about it. They'll drive around the hospital so they don't have to see the hospital on their way back from work, you know, all that classic avoidance person, right? And so now you can go to the onefoundation.org website, and there are pictures there of the pre and post, and this changed the brains. It didn't just change the mindset, which it did change the mindset because these people no longer had that reactivity to the thing. So minding my business one day out in the pasture looking at the Black Angus cows, I didn't know what I was getting into, but here I am now. And so now we've gathered practitioners like yourself around us. We cannot, we have to be bound together.— and our net effect, one foundation means our net effect. So now, practitioners are getting out. We can't wait for politics. We can't wait for the curriculums to change. We have to go now because we just got done with World War II, which was preceded by World War I, which was preceded by— you get back to our founding of the country. We need to get people's drama. We need to be able to allow people to step back from their individual internal emotional upset, step back, be rational, use the ration that God gave us, and use it so that we can talk about our differences, that we have tolerance now for other religious groups and other ethnicities. And we have to pull it together. We cannot wait for laws to do it. Laws can only be made up by people. And I guess I'm getting off on a little bit of a rant here, but I think that's great. One Foundation is all about the ills of mankind, not just the physical health, not just the mental health, but the ills. And I translate into war and, and social strife. Um, and we have to do that. We have to get that research done. And, uh, I invite everybody to go to the One Research Foundation. And while you're there, you can, if you want to make a donation, more than appreciated. But you can also look at all the research that's been done on a variety of mental issues and physical issues, you know. And Jason, you know what you're doing. I want to teach a seminar one of these times. I want to show mental health care practitioners how much they're affecting body because you don't know. I know how to look for it. I can demonstrate it to you before you take care of somebody and then I'll demonstrate it after. And you're changing the body, you're changing the musculature, you're changing things. Right. Sometimes the patients will tell you about it, but they don't come into you and say, "Hey, listen, I've really got a bad backache." They come in and say, "Hey, I'm stressed out for my boss." And so you take care of them for their boss and their backache goes away and you don't get any credit. Right, right.

Like, "Oh, that just randomly happened." But it reminds me of a story, but two quick things, especially just to go back to what you were saying. I've had the opportunity so far, 'cause I also want not only to talk about the Research Foundation, but also to make sure that we get back into the amazing documentary that came from all this, the stress documentary that's on YouTube. Right now. But in episode 5, I had Luke Segreto, who was the producer of the film, the documentary creator. On episode 5 and episode 17, I had Dr. Andrew Newberg, who is a neurologist and did all the brain imaging and incredible, incredible researcher and scientist and groundbreaking in the world of neurotheology. And there is definitely some other episodes throughout the podcast on NET specifically when I'm on other podcasts and explaining creating it and sharing it. But there was the component of— there was a client that I saw about a year ago who unfortunately lost a child, a teenage child, and they had no clue why. Like, it was just within 2 weeks, and this was before the pandemic, so, right, we were trying, like, you know, was there really anything there going on? But there was no— nothing was able to be found out why this teenage child unfortunately passed away. And I remember working with the mom. We did some N.E.T., we did some other stuff. And, um, I remember asking her as she was getting into a, a more consistent place where the trauma, uh, and the grief was no longer manifesting on a daily basis for this, for this mom. And I said, is there anything else, knowing what I do now, knowing, seeing, and experiencing N.E.T., if you didn't come in for this loss around your son, would there be anything else you would love for us to try to tackle. And I never realized, and then it hit me at that moment. She's like, well, I have this shoulder injury. And I remember she was coming in wearing a sling. She's a young woman. And I had this surgery injury and I had surgery on it about 2 years ago. And my range of motion can really only go to like above my head. And I have this big goofy grin on and I'm like, all right, well, let's see what we can, let's see if we can take a crack at it. Literally 2 years, PT, orthopedic rehab, all of that stuff. The range of motion only to above her ear when she raised her arm up. Within 20 minutes, she had full range of motion back and no pain of doing NET. And we were in tears. She went to work the next day with a sling. Everybody was like, "Where's your sling? What's going on with your arm?" And she started telling everybody and they're like, "There is no way that happened." There's no way. And like, even to this day, and right, and this is at least a year ago at this point. And I remember like her coming in before the pandemic. She's like, Jason, like, I still don't— like, this is insane that like I've not had one issue with my shoulder since we did that NET session. And so I like, I really want to impress on people who are hearing this for the first time that, right, when you're saying that me as a therapist, right, us mind docs, as we playfully associate the mind docs The Body Docs, but we really are, right? There's stuff that I'm realizing with like digestion issues and sleep that like it's not just talking about it, that we are helping change the response of the person as they dance through the world. And I want— I would love for you to talk a little bit about, a little bit just for the neuroscience behind that. We have this belief that emotions are physiological and not psychological. So can you talk about that? And then we'll go back into the documentary. After that.

Oh, okay. Yeah, thanks for bringing that up.

Sure.

Yes, uh, let me take a deep breath here and just, uh, see how to do— so the emotions, uh, the emotions are physiological. You know, uh, Darwin, all the press on, uh, evolution, right? But his favorite book was The Emotional Expression The Expression of Emotions in Animals and Men. And he basically demonstrated that, you know, you can snarl at somebody on the bus, they'll get it that you're angry, right? And a dog can snarl and you don't want to go near that dog, he's going to bite you because the limbic system is traditionally thought to be well, the main processor in the brain of emotions. And you know what? All mammals have one. All mammals have a limbic system. And that's the dogs and the cats and the humans. And so we don't usually think about dogs as processing algebraic formula. They don't have that neocortex like we do. But we do, man's best friend is the dog, right? So what do we share? Me, the dog, and all the cows in the pasture, we all have these, all mammals have this apparatus for generating emotions, which can help us. Emotions are good. Emotions are sometimes unpleasant, but they're always good. They're appropriate to get us out of trouble and to move us on to wherever we have to be in life. It makes sense that they're physiological, and they are. And then there was all the work of Paul MacLean, and he had a work that he put forth, it was called the triune brain, right? And the triune brain was about the reptilian nervous system, the brain and spinal cord.

Speaking of the dog, yeah, it's having a Pavlovian response to that bell. The universe is always working out in our favor, right? As you, as you love to say.

Yeah, so, um, let's see if I can get this under control here. Yeah, you have to talk dog talk. Look at Jason. Hey, this is my dog. He was born on Christmas Day. Oh, his name is adorable. So, uh, Cisco's here because I'm gonna get a visit from a psychotherapist today. We're gonna go over some work. But, um, anyhow, where were we?

Physiology and triune brain theory.

Yeah, so MacLean said that we have the reptilian brain, which is the spinal cord, and the and the cerebellum area is included somewhat in that. And then we have the mammalian brain, which is all the emotions we talked about. And then we have the neocortex, which makes us humans so uniquely. And now there's an interface between the prefrontal cortex and the limbic system, and those two systems are talking to each other all the time. Sometimes, guess who wins? The emotions, right? And that's— and that can be good for brief periods of time when you're running away from danger, right? Or, uh, it can be not so good if they become obsessive emotions and make us behave different and actually make us think different. We actually can have erroneous thoughts because of the influence of the limbic system. Isn't that something? So we now Here we are 300 years later. This is new, you see, this is new. 300 years later, we now have the circuitry along with the muscle test and the 2,000-year-old technology from the acupuncturist and all the contributions that the psychologists have made from Pavlov's dog on up. We now have it all in one package and so we now can see unprecedented results. Like the woman with a shoulder problem, the body practitioners do NERT, you see that all the time. No doubt. And what they don't know is sometimes the person comes in and has a shoulder problem, they find out it's related to their marriage and they find out where the tension is in the marriage. They don't tell the person what to do or what to say with their mate or anything like that. What they do is they do NERT on that person and the person's shoulder is better, okay, but they go home and they're nicer to their spouse. Okay, as a side effect. I'm sorry, your honor. I didn't mean to practice psychology. Honest, I was trying to help them with the shoulder and it was a side effect. It was a side effect. So the patients, God love them, they have to self-select their practitioners. And when they self-select their practitioners, they go based on what their education has been about the mind-body. And whatever complaint it is they have. If they're lucky enough to get to an N.E.T. practitioner or some other techniques that are out there, mind-body oriented, I have to just say honestly, I don't— I think that N.E.T. is the most effective of all of them and the research kind of bears that out. But who knows, maybe there's something— I hope there is. My God, we need all the help we can get.

Exactly.

The more the merrier. But if somebody's lucky enough to get to an N.E.T. practitioner, they can take care of the mind and the body all in one fell swoop.

Yeah. So let's talk for just a bit. I know our time is limited and all of this has led into the Stressed documentary, right? The research, the practice, the amazing network of worldwide certified practitioners. And when I mean worldwide, I mean worldwide, where it's incredible where like I'm actually working, I have a coaching client that's in Alaska and they were on vacation in California last week and they're like, oh yeah. And I'm like, before I go, I'm going down to San Diego. And I know my client, this person is a runner and he was having issues with his foot. I'm like, so you're passing Carlsbad, right? He's like, actually, I'm going to be 5 minutes outside Carlsbad. I'm like, okay, here are 3 names of people that you should call. Will you do this? And they actually went and they made an appointment with somebody. And it was just like, but one time, that's going to help? And I'm like, yeah, one time. And since that appointment with that practitioner, they've had very little issues with their foot while they're running. I have another client that is moving to Florida next week from Jersey, and I'm like, "So do you have time? Do you have 2 hours between now and when you move? Because if you can get this handled at some level up there before you come here, that'll be amazing." Sent him to a colleague there, and just the feedback was incredible that we have this network all around the world. And I think that's one of the most beautiful testaments to what you thought was only going to be a one-time workshop on that Saturday. To create a community, a family of people who are committed to mind-body wellness when it comes to these things. And I think today's cumulative of that, and obviously there's more stuff to come in the future from our community, but the documentary. So let's— such a few minutes of just like, to get that together and to put it so succinctly and to share that with the world of like This is out there now. And we took a big risk by putting it out there.

Yeah, it's been risky the whole way.

Yeah, yeah.

In so many ways. But, uh, yeah, that was thought up and conceived by, uh, Luke Segreto's father, who's, uh, Frank Segreto. And, uh, he had the— he's the president of the ONE Foundation. He said, hey, went to a seminar one day, what do you guys think about having a documentary? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, let's, let's Pony up, let's put some more money out, let's go ahead and get this documentary done. And, uh, but at least now on YouTube it's called, I think, Stress, the official, uh, the, uh, we'll put links in any of the notes of the show when this goes. Oh, okay. So anyhow, uh, yeah, people can get an overview of what it is. I think actually it also needs a trailer that would tie it together for those of us feeling time crunched. But, um, at least it's, it's reaching out. It's, it has an opportunity now. And, um, not an alarmist or anything, but we were talking earlier about how we have to get this mind-body stuff out there because we now, since World War II, we now have the capacity to blow ourselves up. We now have the absolute capability of atrocities like the world has never seen with this nuclear stuff. And so we need, we need to fight as best we can to get the human being at the very top of their game so that we can have, uh, peace on Earth.

Yeah, yeah. So what's, what's your hopes and wishes, right, as, as we have these next generation of healers, practitioners coming into the world What is your best hope for them and your wishes for them that you would love to most impress? In a way, I'm really asking you, like, Dr. Walker, can you compress all of your wisdom and hopes and dreams into one sentence? But what do you hope for us as a student of yours, as someone who is an advocate and passionate lover of the NET community, a member of the ONE Foundation? What do you hope for us as the next generation?

It's really pretty simple, I think, and that is that mankind's only enemy really is ignorance, and our only salvation is knowledge. And so if we all recognize in each other that we all want the same thing, through the One Research Foundation, as a a great tool that we can start to put knowledge out for people, because people are not resisting knowledge, they just don't have it. And it's our job, I think, as you know, the, the definition of doctor is one who teaches, all right? And it's our job to share that with mankind. And I'd like to see it happen sooner than later. We're going to get there, we will get there, there's no doubt about it. Mankind is going to have a bright future. Might have some casualties along the way, to be honest, you know, frank, but we've got to do whatever we can. So it's our net effect coming together, uh, it does like— it does something for mankind, but it also does something for the practitioners, you know, because we all go like, yeah, you're my brother, you're my sister, all right, this is fun.

And to tie it all together, I think that when we talk about our net effect and the team and the community and the family that we've created, that, you know, it would be I definitely certainly would not like, you know, do not want to take for granted, uh, your partner in all of this, Dr. Deb.

Oh my God, partner! She's the backbone of the whole thing. Dr. Deb is it, you know. She's the, she's the one. I'm just this— I'm the spokesperson. I'm the one that looks outrageous. And no, my wife is the one that pulls it together daily.

Yeah, and there's so much, there's so much beautiful things coming together. So I just want to share some links for everybody who's listening. Um, we've been talking with Dr. Scott Walker, who is the founder and co-creator of NET, along with his wife Dr. Deb. Um, and first of all, people can go check out netmindbody.com. That will tell you all about the NET modality, both if you're a patient as well as if you're a practitioner. And if you want to start learning seminars as a licensed medical practitioner You can definitely find a lot of information there. There's the ONE Foundation, which is the nonprofit research arm. We have such some amazing people. I mean, Dr. Dan Monty at Jefferson Medical School, right? The chair. What's his official new title? I know it's changed in the last year.

He has so many titles, I can't remember them all in a row. But, you know, they're teaching a course now at Jefferson, and Dr. Deb's going to be part of the instructional class there. There may still even be time to get on board with that if any of your listeners want to go to It's Dan Monty, Thomas Jefferson, and then it's something like integrative medicine and nutrition.

Right, chair of. But yeah, Dr. Dan Monty's a psychiatrist and we have Dr. Andrew Newberg, who's also right, that we were talking about before, about the neurology and the neuroimaging, right? And Anatobia, we have all the Dr. Anatobia. I mean, we have all of these incredible, incredible practitioners from all of these disciplines that are valid, not just justifying what we've been doing, but like, we are aiming, from my understanding, to be the most clinically validated and I believe we are the most clinically validated mind-body, you know, what people would formally call an alternative medicine modality, but really bringing it into the mainstream. That this has really always been the mainstream, and this is how we can do it and have an amazing hospital like Jefferson Medical behind, uh, and medical school behind us is, is so profound and so powerful. But, um, you know, again, so there's theonefoundation.org, netmindbody.com. We have the Stressed documentary that's available on YouTube for free. And I just want to end with just such gratitude to you and to the NET official formal community, right, the administration side of things, and all the wonderful teachers just for having such a profound effect on my life changing. I mean, literally, I can, you know, there's, was it, you know, they talk about AD, BC, all the different time areas, and it's like, well, before NET and after NET, and when when you came into my life and when our community came into my life and the people and my friends that have become family. And I really want to thank you for that contribution, not just to me, but to my clients. I know my clients who I've worked with any NET session would, who know about you, and they all know about you, would thank you and Dr. Deb as well. So, and I really want to thank you for the time you shared with us today.

Definitely, definitely my pleasure. Definitely my pleasure. Thank you for what you're doing and getting the word out not just about NAD+, but other alternative things that are so very helpful. The nice thing is, and the exciting thing is, I think you and I both feel that there's an excitement about it because it's here. Yeah, it's here, it's available. And, and for— if you're a potential patient out there, it's not that expensive really compared to— and there's no drugs and there's no surgery and there's no side effects.

Yeah, the worst case scenario is you might cry a little bit. That's what I joke with my clients. I'm like, you might, you might cry. Are you okay for that? I mean, you're coming to a therapist anyway, and the tissues are strategically— were strategically placed along my office pre-pandemic. But, um, yeah, that's like— I think that's the worst though. The real worst case scenario is you might have to be okay with letting go of what you've been holding on to for so long. And if you can get okay— and we talk a lot about the okayness, the neutrality of everything— but if a client can get okay with letting go of what they've been willing to carry on, then the amount of healing that they can have in their life is just limitless.

That's the big first step, isn't it? Yeah, it's the willingness to improve one's life.

Yeah. So again, thank you from the bottom of my heart, and, um, I look forward to seeing you again in person, uh, as soon as that happens with everything in the universe clearing up for itself. And, um, I'm looking forward to our next conversation.

Thank you, Jason.

Thanks for listening to the You Winning Life podcast. If you are ready to minimize your personal and professional struggles and maximize your potential, we would love it if you subscribed so you don't miss an episode. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Jason Wasser LMFT 🎗️.