Ep. 84- A Woman's Place Is In The Business World with Belinda Ellsworth

This is the You Winning Life Podcast, your number one source for mastering a positive existence. Each episode we'll be interviewing exceptional people, giving you empowering insights, and guiding you to extraordinary outcomes. Learn from specialists in the worlds of integrative and natural wellness, spirituality, psychology, and entrepreneurship so you too can be winning life. Now here's your host, licensed LMFT 🎗️, marriage and family therapist, certified neuro-emotional technique practitioner, and certified entrepreneur coach Jason Wasser.

So welcome back to the You Winning Life. I'm Jason Wasser, and I'm here with Belinda Ellsworth. She's been working in the sales industry for over 20 years and is the author of the best-selling book Direct Selling for Dummies and host of the Work from Your Happy Place podcast. Her birth— Her boutique firm has helped thousands in the direct sales community with coaching and digital marketing and now offers a team of trainers for everything from sales training, sponsorship, and leadership to online digital and social marketing. Welcome to the show.

Well, thanks so much, Jason Wasser, for having me here today.

Well, it's good to reconnect with you again after we talked about a week ago.

Yes, I loved having you on my podcast, Work From Your Happy Place. That was awesome.

Yeah. So if anybody out there hasn't yet listened to that episode, please make sure you, you find that out there. So a little bit about you. Let's start with your backstory before you even got into doing what you're doing. And how did that lead you to starting off in the world that you started off with?

You know, I, I was always a pretty outgoing child and always looking for ways to make money at a very young age. I think that I just had that Now that I am able to look back on my life, I think I had that entrepreneurial spirit like at the age of 8, 10 years old, and of leading people as well. I got a paper route at a very young age, and at that time I had to fight to get that paper route because there were no other girls that had paper routes at the time. So I had to like petition the paper and get a bunch of signatures and do all kinds of crazy things, but I made that happen. And then somebody nominated me for it. And it's funny because several of the guests I've had on my podcast have said, I did that too. But there, we got nominated to sell Christmas cards door to door. And, and so I did that for a couple of years. And I was probably only 12 at that time. So I just always was making things. I learned how to sew, then I would sell different quilts. And this was all well before the age of 16. So I was always doing that. And then I started playing percussion when I was only 11. And that too was another predominantly male field. And so I was entering as this female in this world of male drummers and completely rocked that. And to the point where I did well enough that my band teachers when I was in high school recommended me as a tutor for their younger students that they had. So I started teaching drum lessons all through high school and made a very good income doing that. So I just have kind of always had that entrepreneurial spirit and I've always kind of really been fighting for women to be doing things that they weren't always necessarily looked upon to do or was the normal path for a woman to take.

So as you started that journey and you started doing things more professionally, what was it like to be in a male-dominated industry? So right from everything that at least that I know was that, you know, the origins or the uncommonness of a female in a male-dominated industry, especially sales, was uncommon, correct?

It is. Now, I did connect with doing— with working in the direct sales industry, and that industry is predominantly female that are the sales reps, but at that time was predominantly ran by male CEOs and executives, which was always interesting to me. That has changed a lot in the last 40 years to where we see more females, but it's still a predominantly ran male business as far as the executives and the way the companies are run, but a lot of the sales force are still predominantly female.

So. So what was that like, first off, right, in this community? You know, you have these skills, you know, you have these talents, you know, you have people that identified you as a leader. What were some of the uphill battles or challenges that you had to face?

You know what, there's some, they still are some of the same ones. I, a story that happened just a couple of years ago, and so this is a story that has gone on forever. And I keep thinking, Well, as I get older, because I started it very, very young, like I was in sales as a teenager, and then started in sales, really selling soon as I turned 18 years old and started earning commissions and was earning some of the highest commissions within the companies at like 29 years old, 6-figure income, which that was back in the early '90s. And, and so I always did really, really well. And then I just Then I became a speaker, like a professional speaker at 35 years old. And so, still pretty young, I guess, you know, but today people look at people and they, if it was a guy, they wouldn't have thought anything about it. And I just kept thinking, well, when I look a little bit older or I get a little bit older or I have more experience or people then see me now with my track record and what I've been able to do. And so I had just earned an industry award for the Best Partnership Award in the direct selling industry. First female to get that award. This is just like 4 years ago. And there's another executive and she comes over and she's talking to me about helping her start her company. And she's asking me all these questions and I sat there with her for about an hour and I gave her very, very good advice of what I thought ought to be the direction she should go. Some of the things she should do. And she stood up and she said, "Well, thank you so much for your time, and hopefully we'll connect." And I watched her walk away from me over to this group of gentlemen, and one that had been in the industry for a while. And I said right then, "She's gonna go with him." And not the same making things happen, not earning this industry award. So, and then she calls me back up a year later and says that she spent all her money with him for a year, got absolutely nowhere, and now can I please have pity on her and basically work for free. And I'm like, and I have gotten, that's happened 2, 3 different times where then people come back and say, oh, well, I wish I woulda, shoulda gone with you in the first place, but they're willing to spend more money because it's a guy. They're willing to let them do whatever, and so sadly, I think in some ways we're still fighting that battle. I'd say that as much as I, I don't think now that it's like when I get a certain age or I've got a certain amount of wisdom. I've been doing this for 40 years. I am at an age where I've had really good experience. I've had some, earned some of the top sales awards, some of the top partnership awards. I've taken companies from $1 million to $20 million in 2 years. So it doesn't even, it doesn't matter what your track record is, honestly. So it's still an uphill battle.

And I can imagine that could be frustrating, and I know a lot of people who are listening to our conversation, whether it's being a background of a certain culture, certain color, certain race, certain religion, certain gender, have had these struggles in their life. So what insight and what advice would you give to someone to work past that, to not stay in a place of anger, to stay in a place of frustration? You know, as a therapist, one of the things that I really hope to challenge my clients on is moving from a place place of victimhood to a place of empowerment. And you're giving a great example of someone who knows what their worth is, knows what they're capable of bringing to the world, and still has stuff being thrown at them, but still goes ahead and accomplishes that which you need to accomplish.

Well, for me, it's always been like, okay, I can only control what I can control, and I can only live my best version of me. But sadly enough, though, that is probably caused me to work harder. It's caused me to try to continue to prove myself to have that track record. I take all my clients extremely seriously. And I bring my best work, probably, you know, I always give 150% instead of 100%. If you're hiring me at a contract, people get so worried about the hours you're going to give them. And I'm like, I promise you, this is the, you know, we're saying you're going to get these minimum amount of hours, but I'm promising you, you're going to get a lot more than that, because I'm going to get the job done. And I'm going to do it quickly. And we're going to do right and we're gonna make sure you succeed. And so I don't think you can sort of rest on your laurels, and that's not a bad thing to do anyway, you know what I mean, is not to get too comfortable, is not to feel challenged. And so I've always just continued to say, okay, I can't control what I can't control, but I can control me. I can control my own behaviors. I can control my work ethic. I can control how much I learn. I'm a constant student, and I believe that that is in important for everyone. We never get to a place where we know everything. I'm still doing interviews. I'm still doing focus groups. I'm still going out there trying to find what's changed. And, you know, we're about to hit a new decade. So what's, what's the landscape look like in 2020? What's going to be new there? What, how does technology blend in with everything? You know, a couple of years ago, somebody made a comment about myself after I've worked so hard to finally get to an age where people go, okay, Somebody said, well, she's dated. And that's what drives me crazy too, because you've got men that are 70 and 80 years old and everybody's still going, oh, they're so smart. And it drives you nuts. But I just had to laugh. But one of the things they said, she's not doing anything with social media. And I hadn't really immersed myself in that world probably as much as I should have or came to the table as quickly. But then I was smart enough to say, I can't get up to speed fast enough. So I'm going to hire a really, really smart gal that is doing it, and I'm going to mentor her, and I'm going to teach her everything I know about business and let her learn the social media piece of it and get up to speed quicker than I could ever get up to speed on it. And that was probably the smartest thing that I've done as to making myself still look current and still look— looking sharp and knowing what we're doing. And it's, it's challenged me, but Those are things that you have to keep doing.

Absolutely. And I completely agree with you. One of my coaches, Rick Sappio, who's a capital venture investor and the creator of Business Finishing School, always talks about his three core values, which is simplicity, probability, and leverage. And the leverage part really has to do with overall, if you're working on things that are not in your either your purpose or your core skills, you're wasting your time, your money, and your effort. So I remember a few months ago when I was at a podcast conference and there was, let's say, 2,500 people there. And I remember hearing people talk about how much time they were spending on editing their own podcasts— 8 hours, 12 hours, 14 hours. And I'm like, wow, I send it to my guy who does all my stuff. I pay him because he's an expert to do it, and that frees me up. To do what I do best, which is therapy and coaching, and not sitting there for 8 to 12 hours trying to edit a podcast because I know what I pay him, I just have to do 2 sessions worth of therapy for, for what everybody else is spending 8 to 12 hours just editing one episode. And he does my entire month's worth of, of social media. So this idea of what you just said, I think, is so brilliant. And that we're not trained and taught, especially in the educational system or in a traditional business system, to leverage out that which we are not skilled in. Because if we focus our primary skills on what our higher value is, whether it's that time per money or our time per purpose and value, even if we're not making money off of it, we're still going to be more in alignment with what we're supposed to be doing here on Earth. So I think that's really incredible that you got to that point that many other people will never get to about leveraging out.

That, you know, it's interesting because even when I was very young, so I was very fortunate. So my early, early days of sort of into the direct selling world and just really learning about business was I had a woman that said, hey, come work in my office and do some office work. And I was at 14 and I was like, heck yeah, I'm going to do that.. And so then when I started having my own business, there were things I could have done on my own, but it didn't allow me to be on the phone to talk to clients. It didn't allow me to do the selling piece of it, which I was really good at, and having all that time and paperwork. And I hired my 14-year-old babysitter to help out with paperwork. And so then I mentored her. And even in our business today, we have co-op students and oh my gosh, they're smart. And you're mentoring them at the same time that you know, you're not paying the same salary that you would have to pay someone else. And people, people are just short-sighted in that. It's like, not only do you, you don't have to wait till you're so big to allow people, like when I was paying that big 14-year-old babysitter, I wasn't making a ton of money. But I was smart enough to know that I could make more money in the areas that were better use of my time than me spending 8 hours doing paperwork. Work when she could sit there while she was babysitting even after my kids went to bed and she got double dip pay, you know what I mean? Happy day for her, here's your babysitting pay and now, after you get the kids to bed, do all my paperwork and it was a win-win.

Yeah, and I just had this conversation with somebody about trying to bring someone on very part-time to my practice, maybe 10, 15 hours a week and I remember someone saying to me good luck finding someone who's going to want to do that. And I'm like, there's got to be so many people, whether they're a student in high school, a college student, a graduate student, a mom who's even sending their kids to preschool for those 4 hours a morning, that actually just want some sense of identity and worth for themselves, even if they're only going to be making a bare minimum amount of money. It's not even going to offset costs of preschool, right? Mindset that I want to— that it sounds like you and I both want to impress upon each other is to find the things that you're what you're really good at, and then refer everything else out to someone else who that's more of their wheel of capabilities.

Yes, but the one thing I hear from business owners, entrepreneurs, is when I get so big, I'll do that. When I make X amount of money, I'll do that. And the smarter thing to do, you know, it goes back to having somebody, I've had somebody cleaning my house for, Oh, we, like, you know, 30 years. Like, I just saw that there was a better use of my time. And then any free time I had, why would I want to spend that with my children? And I'm gonna spend that with my family. Why do I want to spend that cleaning my house? So it even goes down to that. And in the beginning, I couldn't afford to have her all the time. I had her every other week and tried to keep up things in between. And, you know, like you do, you find ways to afford what you can afford. And I just think that people keep waiting, you know, and if you wait forever, the right time will never happen. It's like you get out there and make things happen and allows you to generate more income and allows you to meet the right people. It'll lead you into your next path or whatever the case may be.

And as you experience this from each step, right, from hiring this 14-year-old babysitter to the stage where you're at now, where you do have a team, you're doing workshops and you're doing coaching and you're doing all these other verticals in your business. What has it been like for you to one, be mentoring and leading and coaching, but also from the point of empowering, because I, you know, from what I noticed, your entire team is females.

They are. And I've had a male or two, not gonna lie. And, and, and a couple of them have been okay. I've had a couple of guys that have worked in our shipping department, and they've actually done really, really well because we do all of our shipping out of our products. From here too. We haven't moved to a fulfillment center. And they've done really well with that. But I honestly, I think it's just the comfortableness of the whole female group here. And like when you come in in the morning and what you chat about, all that other good stuff, it just has worked out to have a strong female staff. But we have hired a few men along the way.

That's awesome. So as you've evolved and as you brought on more staff and tried new products and new experiences, what have been some of the biggest learning curves that you've had as a professional?

Oh my goodness. So probably the biggest learning curve for me is understanding that not only did I need to start adding online marketing to what we were doing, you know, it's like, that was just— we used to be— could send out a newsletter, and people would go to our website, and we would literally get, you know, thousands of dollars in sales with people just going to our website. And that doesn't really happen like that anymore. It should to some degree, but it just is not where people are, you know, you got to go where the people are. And so the biggest learning curve for me there was getting the right team to do your online marketing because everybody wants to claim they're an expert in it. And because I knew nothing I just believed they sounded good and I trusted them and it took several, several people getting to where, but now I don't know enough to know how to do it. Like I haven't taken myself that far, but I know enough. I've immersed myself in learning enough to not be duped by somebody who doesn't know what they're doing. So that's probably the biggest thing that I have I, before I was just like, I don't have time to learn all this. And I just really completely pulled away from it. But if I, if I learn enough to know what's the right way to do it, whether I know how to execute that or to go online and create an ad or place an ad or all the algorithms and everything else that is involved with that and creating ClickFunnels and sales pages and everything else, I might not know how to push all the buttons and execute it all. But I do know what it should look like in the end. Like, I know what the end result ought to look like. And that's important.

And it sounds like a lot of people I know, including myself, have had very similar experiences, right? The space has become incredibly crowded that everybody now is an entrepreneur. And I live in South Florida. So there's kind of a joke of people have their job and they're a realtor on the side. Right. And in other places, they have whatever they're trying to do, or they're a coach.

Right?

So I know there's been a few times in the last year and a half that I've gotten burnt by people who overpromise and radically underdeliver. And so I've also picked up a few things that I realize that will help me avoid spending time, effort, and money that is hard-earned in order to make my business grow so I can help champion other people's potential. What are some of those little things that you've learned that you can share with the listeners that will help them avoid avoid that same disappointment and loss of time, effort, and money?

I would say that if you don't see some result, and I don't mean like some big result like thousands, thousands of dollars, I mean you've spent this, like some return on investment. No matter what you've spent, you should at least see some return. And if you're not seeing that straight away, relatively soon, I don't mean overnight, like you run it one time and I don't mean that, sort of thing. But if you don't see that relatively soon, then there is probably something wrong. And the biggest thing, I guess, that I learned is like, as a salesperson— so I might not know how to sell online, but I know how to sell to people all day long. Like, I know how to do that. And so I know marketing ideas, and they're the same marketing ideas that work kind of everywhere. And so the biggest red flag— and I saw it, but I just decided, well, maybe I don't know enough about this online stuff is I would say, well, what, we're, we're not seeing this, so what are we gonna do? And they would say, well, what would you like to do? Well, I hired you to tell me what to do. So I found myself giving them all the ideas I've known forever, and then, and having them try to implement that. And I'm like, who's coaching who? And, and who's paying who here? And so that should— you should go with your gut instinct. I think that that is— I know that's a hard thing to to really train somebody or to pinpoint. But like, if you're the one giving the ideas to somebody and they don't have, or they're not bringing any ideas to the table, if they are smart enough in their space, they should know how to bring ideas to the table. And if they're not, that is a good indicator that they probably don't know the full scope of it. So that's one. And then number two is you've got to learn to listen to that gut instinct. Instinct because it's almost always right 100% of the time. When you get that little nagging feeling like, "Ah, I don't know if this is quite right," or, "I don't know, I'm not really sure they know what they're doing," question that. You know, ask. Don't be afraid because you're the one paying. And I don't know why we get in a position like that, but when we're paying for somebody for services, we get like, "Okay, you know, like you're the expert, whatever." But no, you're the one paying it. You should be able to ask questions and you should be able to get answers. And I will tell you one thing. If somebody questions you for asking a question, like, well, why are you asking me this, man? It's time to go. And that's, that's the biggest red flag. So those are a couple that I can then say or speak to. Yeah.

One of the things that I found on top of that is that if the vagueness of what they're offering continues to stay vague and it's kind of a generalization that, well, Will, especially like Instagram right now, right? There's everything with social media. The rules keep changing every 6 months. The algorithms change. And if the person can't specifically share how they're going to do what they're doing with the updated information and what you'll see as a result of that. Now, again, it may not be an ROI on, on the financial side, but I remember that there's someone I know that was doing some Instagram marketing and the person said, well, we'll get you up to X amount of followers. But none of the followers that they got had anything to do with the core niche of their business and weren't things that were engaging or again, anything having to do with the core niche of their business. So it was kind of like just boosting numbers, just so you have an image or prestige. But people will tell, especially now with social media, that the engagement is more important than the numbers. And like, you know, like to build a community is the most powerful thing. So I love when Gary Vaynerchuk talks about it, especially when he talks to younger kids. And you see this on the videos. Where a kid's like, well, I've been doing this YouTube blog, this vlog for a little bit, and I only have 50 followers. And he's like, forget about the numbers. If you're having fun, you're enjoying what you're doing, and you're interacting with people, that will eventually grow. But if you're worried about this like social system of like how many votes you get, and you're now the cool kid because you have this many followers, you're missing the entire point of having a connection with the community. So I think that component of like making sure that the KPIs, right, to keep those, those things that you say you're going to get, you get within a specific timeframe and not letting them keep pushing it off and pushing it off and not handling, like you said, not handling your objections. I think that's something out there that is huge. And I'm also a big fan of fire fast, hire slow.

Oh, 100%. And I would say that if, if there's anything that I've done over the years, that that's probably the biggest mistake. That I have made and continue to make because I usually find myself where all of a sudden we've grown and we've taken on probably more projects than we should, and then all of a sudden we need another person and I gotta move fast. And I'm trying to be better about that because I've heard that saying forever as well, and I wouldn't say that I've been an awesome student of it, and that does cause challenges. Sometimes I'll say that. So that is definitely a good piece of advice. You know, we have an awesome social media trainer that I'm super proud of that because she does teach all about engagement. It isn't about— and we've got great engagement ourselves. Like we get super great engagement on our lives, in with our posts. And I mean, everything that we do, but like we did— this is something that we decided we were going to do. And people all the time criticize us for this. And I think that that's funny because they're criticizing us for it because they don't want us to do it because it makes them look bad. But because everything does change every 6 months, we're not— we don't sell a course for $99 or $199 and then it changes 6 months later and then say, okay, we've changed the course and you got to pay another $199. We do upgrades to our people that have already bought our course and we send them out to them free. And so if we make a change in one particular area, like this Facebook has changed, and so we want to send you these updates, we just push them out to everybody. And it's created a really loyal following in that way.

Well, it sounds like what you're talking about is one of my favorite perspectives as an entrepreneur, as a therapist and a coach, is working from a place of integrity.

100%. And, and really, it's integrity. And it's also working from a place from really bringing value. Like, I value you as a customer, and I want to bring you the greatest value that I can, and I want to keep you as a long-term customer. People don't really— that is the biggest thing in sales that I think. I'm a big, huge firm believer of customer service and customer follow-up, and I've been good at it ever since I was very, very young. I wasn't afraid to pick up the phone. I mean, I'm not ever going to say that it always made me comfortable, but I did it. And I was just actually doing a training on this back in the old days. I used to, because everybody had landlines, right? And, and so I always used to stick a $100 bill taped to my phone handle, the receiver. And so every time I passed by it, I would be like, if I would just pick up the phone, I can make $100. And so it caused me to say, okay, I gotta sit down and make $100 today. I'm gonna sit down and make $100 today. And that was just a little, you know, you got to do little tricks when you're in sales to keep you motivated and keep you going. And but it was so true. And so I learned to love following up with my customers because then they love you and then they stay super loyal to you for a really long time. And if you continue to value them and then bring value to them, you know, I don't want to buy something and then 6 months later it's new and you're telling me to buy it again. Like, I wouldn't want to do that. So why wouldn't I say you're a loyal customer, you bought all of our courses, here's an update, enjoy.

Absolutely true. Absolutely true. And it's funny because today I got back into the office after being out of the office for 2 days for the Jewish holidays and had a list of calls to call back. And as I was getting to the third number of potential clients, it went to a number that was disconnected. And I'm like, OK, maybe it was like a, right, a robocall or spam call. Let me put in the number again really carefully. And on the second try, the person answered. And that person is now coming in as a client. But in the past, because I'm like, oh, whatever, I don't have the time, I got 12 other calls to go through in between my sessions that I'm back to back with today outside of my interviews, I would have skipped over that. But because I went back and I was deliberate, because I was intentional, because like maybe I made the mistake, maybe it's not right. So I just wanted to try that again. And if I got that number again, it was disconnected, I would know to move on. But I mean, maybe I didn't focus on the number, maybe I didn't wait long enough, whatever it was. But when I did recall, that person converted into now a cash-paying client.

I know. And that's the cool thing about customer care calls. Like, everybody's always so afraid of them. If you talk to people and just find out what their needs are, even when you just call and say, hey, I just wanted to see, how's your son doing? You know, and we're just chatting. And I know you were getting ready to go on that awesome vacation, Jason. How'd that work out for you? And then he goes, oh my gosh, Linda, it was so great. Have you ever been there? No, blah, blah, blah. The next thing I know, we're talking about this, that, the other thing. And he's like, you know, I've been meaning to talk to you about something. Maybe you can help me out with this. And that's, that's how it goes. If you're really genuinely, you know, care about your customers. My son's in sales, he does insurance sales, and he's young. And, and so he came to me and he said, okay, and I said, the biggest mistake that insurance salesmen make is they get the sale, they just go on their renewals every year. Oh, and I go, but I promise you that some other young kid is coming up and he's, you know, getting it, and he's got to go out and he goes to his circle of influence. And so he calls his uncle, who's your client, and it says, hey now, Uncle So-and-so, I'm doing this. And I go, and I'll tell you what, if they have no alliance to you, they'll just say, okay buddy, let's go, and I'll never talk to this joker again. You know what I mean? And So I said to him, the best thing you can do is call those, keep continuing to have a relationship with those clients. And he does supplemental Medicare, so a lot of them are elderly. And so he was just going down the list, and he happened to be here, and he had the guy on speaker the one day, and he said, you know, hey Joe, whatever his name was, and he said, do you mind if I call you periodically just to see how you're doing, just to check in on you? And he goes, son, I got nobody to talk to but the fish outside. I'd love you to call me. And so my son just started calling him about once a month, like, hey Joe, how's it going? Catch any fish today? You know, that's it. But Dad Joe has sent him probably 4 to 5 customers to be his client. And that is the power of sales and taking care of your customers.

I couldn't agree with you more because I just have been able over the last year to spend some time with Dr. Ivan Misner at one of the business programs that I'm a certified coach through. And the last speaking engagement that he gave, he just repeated like, don't sell them, don't sell them, don't sell them, right? Over and over and over again. And unfortunately, some industries, the sales industry in general, and let's say insurance in specific, has one of those reputations that unfortunately have been created by people out there who just want to close a deal and not really care and move on to the next one, and then maybe reach out to you, like you said, for a renewal. And I remember my first experience with that, that there was someone I met at a friend's house for dinner and was really buddy-buddy with me, and then at the end of the dinner was like, hey, I'd love to take you, you know, I'd love to get to know you. Would you want to meet at Starbucks in one of the next mornings? And I'm like, cool. Like, you know, we were talking over dinner, everybody was getting along. I'm like, he lives in my neighborhood. And the next thing I know, I show up at Starbucks and it's just a hardcore sales pitch. Right. And, and I'm like, thank you. I'm working with someone who I really like and I really appreciate. And the first words out of this person's mouth was, well, we bet— I bet you we have a better offering than they do. And I'm like, number one, You invited me under the premise of I'd like to get to know you better. Two, I wasn't asking you for anything. And three, the fact that you just put down a buddy who was in the industry, who did everything right to get my trust over long term by only providing value, by only providing services and resources and references and referrals, created that relationship with me, was the only person I would have gone to. And then you have a you know, the chutzpah to knock him down without even knowing who it is or what they do. Right. So that was one of my first experiences with, with that. And yet throughout my world of entrepreneurship, of people who are based on core values and like you said, creating relationships first, especially what Dr. Ivan Misner, the founder of BNI, says is everything that we're doing is how would you treat a family member? Right. Would you want to go to bed doing this and talking to a person like this and never talking to them again. Now, if it's a family member you don't want to talk to, different ballgame. But I think one of the things that I've learned through my entrepreneurship journey, and I think what kept me far away from defining myself as an entrepreneur, was the lack of ethics and values-based decisions until I met Rick Sappio, who created Business Finishing School, and the core group of entrepreneurs in that community. That are all about entrepreneurship with a heart, entrepreneurship with your values. How do you take care of your family better? How do you take care of your community better? How do you take care of your health better, your spirituality, whatever your priorities are? And it's not about the number of— just the number of sales to get you where you want to go. But one of my favorite teachings or quotes from Rick, which I can't remember the exact place where it comes, is a rising tide raises all ships, right?

Yeah, that's an old one too. It's been around for a long time.

So I'm a big fan of that, that, you know, I'm constantly sending emails to friends or links about a podcast or an article or, or something where I think it's not about them coming and working with me. And I even tell clients when they call about an insurance question. So one thing people might out there may not know is that most insurances don't cover couples counseling or relationship therapy.

Mm-hmm.

So the insurance companies will actually tell the provider and the client, have your practitioner coded under something else so you can get covered, which is highly unethical. And then you're getting a medical clinical diagnosis on your record for something that you may not be going through. So I tell every person who I walk this through, especially as my practice is moving away from insurance only to a fee-for-service, is that whether you choose me or not, I want you to walk off this call as an informed consumer. And I guarantee you no one else will tell you this. And in fact, here's a link on my website that's a blog article about what this means, so you can know. And you can now travel around with this whether you work with me or not. So I'm hoping that they're gonna want to work with me because I'm giving them extra value, right?

Right, right.

Even though it's gonna cost more in the long run than a $25 copay. But if I'm protecting them by not having a false clinical diagnosis put on their record that can eventually affect them, and like, you know, you're like like you said, your son's working in insurance. I've had clients over the years that got subpoenaed for my medical records to use against them by GEICO or another medical insurance company of something that has nothing to do with therapy, but to use their diagnosis against them in some type of legal battle.

Wow. Yeah, it's a crazy world out there.

Right. So, so what you and I are doing is really providing that, that next step.

Yeah.

To ensure all of that is taken care of. So I'm really curious, along your journey and along your path, who have been some of your mentors, whether they be in person, whether they be online, whether they be by book? Who, who and what has influenced you? What have been some of your favorite reads in all categories, but has given you the strength, the fortitude, the insight to, to be to the successful level of where you're at today?

Ah, there's been so many, and then there continues to be even more because we continue to— I continue to always be a reader. Some of the, you know, I love goal setting, and so I've read a lot of Brian Tracy's goal setting and some of Jack Canfield's, but then I do pretty good goal setting. I'm pretty good at that myself. That's a good wheelhouse for me. But certainly I've read their books books in sales. And it's a little bit dated now, but it's still just some really good information. But Jeffrey Gitomer's Little Red Book of Sales and Little Black Book of Connections, both of those are really good sort of sales books and networking books. I've enjoyed those. Inspiration and kind of team leading and learning, John Gordon has got got some really nice books. The Energy Bus is a good read, and they're more of a parable type story, and I always enjoy that. Bob Burg is a good friend of mine, and his Go Giver book series is pretty good as well. I, in leadership, of course, John Maxwell's got so many awesome leadership books, but the You Don't Have to Have a Title to Be a Leader by Mark Sanborn, that I love. It's just a short read, but it really hits home about You don't have to wait to be promoted to a certain level or have a certain place in order to be a leader. And I love that messaging. And I've used that and taught that with a lot of other people. So I really like that one. Lee Cockrell's Making Magic or Creating Magic. That's another great leadership book. And I've had the pleasure of meeting him. And I just love him. He's delightful. And he's down in Florida too, but not down there where you are, more toward Orlando. And, but anyway, he's really great. And that book is one that has just been a big inspiration. Gosh, I'm trying to think of some of the most recent ones of what I've read. I like reading autobiographies too. So like people's success stories, like Girl Boss and a couple of the other ones, the Juicy Couture story, I love that one. So I just, you can gain inspiration from that. So it depends on if you're trying to learn something and use strategy to move forward. Sometimes you just need to be in that inspirational place to be uplifted or to get moved. If I find myself kind of in a funk, I know what book I need to go to. I think it's learning to read yourself and saying, okay, I'm ready to take a new action. So, you know, I've read some of Gary Vaynerchuk's books, and so like on social media, like, okay, this is what I need to do. And I always say this to everybody, even for my seminars, and I say this from a book, is like one of the books I read this last year is called Joy. And I just picked this book up because I had considered buying it for all my, everybody for Christmas. And I thought, I'll read it first and see if it's got value before I go and buy it. And like one of the really cool things in there, it talked about the little simple things in life that bring you joy, and one of them in there was having fresh bouquet of flowers on your table. And I have done that since the beginning of the year since I read that. And, and what's been awesome about that is it does bring me joy. And every single time I walk by the living room, I'm like, oh, that looks so pretty. And I take pictures of it and post them on Facebook. And everybody said, it brings me joy just seeing your pictures on Facebook. So that's a great book. And there's so many, but it really is you learning to read yourself and saying, what do I need to feed myself right now? Is it inspiration? Do I need to be uplifted? Do I need strategies? Do I need to learn? Do I need to try something new? Do I need to get out of my comfort zone? Do I need to grow in a particular area? And so then that's where I have a tendency to, um, to, to sort of follow.

And what's so great about everything you're saying is that people dog the internet and they dog social media, but the people that we can get in front of only for the price of internet access that we're already getting on our phone, forget what we're paying for it at home or office, is just literally opening up Google and saying, right, whatever keyword and the word talk or podcast or video or PDF. I found so many books online in PDF form that somehow were hacked or whatever, that I'm like, I don't know if I want to buy it, but I saw it online, started reading it. I'm like, you know what, it's now worth me to buy the $11.99, $12.99, $15, whatever it is, book after reading 20, 30, 40 pages on it. And all it means is just taking a few extra moments to connect with whatever and whoever. So it's really interesting that you said, like, depending on what you need at what time you need, you'll go to a very specific person. And, and I, and I love that because I'm a huge fan of life hacking. And in a way, this is kind of the basis of my podcast, where I believe that there are 4 verticals that people should master in order to have a powerful life. And that's psychology and mindset, spirituality as it means to that person, alternative medicine/natural wellness, and entrepreneurship. So really, this podcast is a way for me to get in front of those people that in either inspired me or will inspire me based on their success, whether I know them already or as we have become, you know, recent friends. But to also share that with the world, that you don't need to start at zero.

Absolutely. You know, it was really— I, and I, to your point about the internet and everything, but I just— so I've been doing this podcast now for about 2 years, and I just really wanted to do it because there is It was a big movement into happiness and what is happiness, and then it's really, you know, people loving what they do, doing work that's meaningful that you don't dread getting. It's Monday, I gotta go to work. It's like, no, I'm excited to go to work today. So this gal sent me the most awesome testimonial for my podcast that I've ever had, and what caught my attention straight away was she said, I was just in a job that I hated. I was going to work every day and hating life, and I just went to the internet and put in happy at work or something like that. And she said, and your podcast came up. And I was like, well, that's pretty darn cool. And so then she said, I listened to it and I just listened to episode after episode. And then I made the decision and I changed careers and I bought a franchise and I've owned it for a year now. And now it's amazing. And so I was like, wow. And so then I invited her to be on my show and then she told me more of the story. So she wrote me that letter, and this is just a really— this is how awesome this is. I got that message from her. It came through my inbox on info@— so like our customer service line— and it came in at about 10:30 at night, and I was sitting there and I was watching TV, and I was like, this is a pretty powerful letter. And her phone number was on there, and. And I just messaged her straight away and said, can I call you? And she just wrote back, oh my gosh, yes. And so I just called her right then in that moment. And then I invited her to be on the show. And she was on the show. And it was so, it was such a good episode. But, you know, we don't understand the impact that we have on people sometimes. She said, I would sit at the side of the road sometimes listening to your podcast of different people living their best life. And I would just cry. And I was just like, I gotta find that, I've got to find that, I have got to find that. So it was just a, the whole thing was just like, I felt like it was a full 360, you know, of me doing what I'm trying to do and it coming to full circle of having an impact. But then her listening and taking action, and it was just a whole really cool thing.

And at the end of the day, that's really what I hope everybody out there is doing all of this impactful work for. Yes, we should make tons and tons of money. And yes, we should have the lifestyle we desire. But if you're not coming, at least from my belief, a place of happiness, a place of purpose, a place of alignment, then, then you're not gonna be able to go to sleep at night. 2 days ago, I was reading an article. I think it was actually Sunday. I was, I was reading an article. On the myths about getting sponsorship for your podcast, right? There's a whole thing of like you need a certain amount of downloads and a certain amount of listeners and you only get X amount for, for this. And last night, randomly, I got an email from someone saying, we found your podcast. We noticed that you talk about entrepreneurship. We would love— we're representing a product. We would love it if you were able to do a mention, whether it's on the show or in your show notes for this company. So I wrote back to them and I said that, that sounds really great. It sees, you know, I see your product as a technical product that would help a lot of entrepreneurs. I'd be more than happy to mention it as a sponsor of my podcast. And they wrote back, we would very much not like you to do that and want it to be as natural as possible. And I wrote back to them saying, the only way that I would feel comfortable with my ethics around doing that is by saying that you are either a supporter of our community and our show, or that you are a direct sponsor. But if that doesn't work for you or the company, then, you know, unfortunately I would have to pass. And how many people out there are willing to take a little gig to work with a client, to partner up with a business person that they know at the end of the day isn't gonna align align with their values, isn't going to align with their ethics, especially for the—

right?

I'm like joking with myself. Well, they only offer me X amount. But if they offer me 8 times as much, would I be as strict? Right? And I really hope that like, the fact that they said, we actually don't want you to say that you're a sponsor. In other words, say that like, I'm willingly doing this, because I don't do this for any other product, is against my ethics. I want to be right in clarity and in full disclosure. So, you know, I gave them the opportunity to return that and say, yes, we actually will be fine with it. But if they don't, I'm going to walk away you know, this email with, you know, but it's interesting how I asked for something to the universe. And it showed up 2 days later, but it showed up as a test.

Right? Absolutely.

And how many times, right, if one of the things I'm very clear on, and I talked about over and over in my podcasts and my workshops and with my clients, is I can only help you once I know your core values. Once I know your core values, then I can help you solve your problems. But my guess is once you know your core values, a lot of your problems will go away if you make decisions from that place versus willy-nilly.

Yep, that's so true, so true.

So then as that evolves for each of us in our practice, you know, how did you realize that this is really truly your purpose and your potential? I know you said you've been doing this from the time you were a kid, but what time in your life and, and at what insight did you really have that you said, this is something that I'm going to commit to, and this is something that I know that is completely one of the many reasons, or one of the you know, specific reasons why I was put on this earth.

Oh, I had been doing sales, and I had— I was just a sales rep for a particular company, and I had been doing really, really well, and then I was getting a little bit bored with it. And so they had actually asked me, would I come on and would I work for the company in a corporate position and be a national sales trainer? And then so I thought, well, this will give me a chance to like actually take what I've done and what I've known and learned over the years and actually start doing it. So I was doing it with my own team, but to be able to do it, you know, across the country and then eventually help them open up Canada, it was like, okay, this could be a good gig. And for that year, I learned a lot and it was rewarding, but it was just working— I don't know, it was like I wasn't working for myself. And it was every time I would have a a certain path, they'd say, "No, we've changed our minds. We want you to do this." So it was kind of not aligning with exactly what I wanted to do. But during that time, I met a couple of motivational speakers that actually had came in and spoken for our event, and they both said to me, this is over a course of 6-month period of time, "You're way too talented to just be here. You need to be spreading this message out. There's many people that are doing what you're doing and that cannot deliver a message the same way that you can." You're really gifted and you're really talented and you need to take your talents and spread them. And so I thought about that for about 6 months, 6, 8 months, and I just made the decision I was going to do it. And so I quit. I was making a pretty good salary and I started my own company and it was kind of scary because I went from making a really big salary to zero. Basically, but just the belief. And it was really interesting because I got a phone call from a company that had been sort of a pretty big competitor of the company that I had worked for, and they had gotten wind that I had left. And so they said, you know, we heard you're going to do this thing and go out on your own, but we'd like to meet with you because we're in need of a regional Sales Rapid. So I said, okay, so I'm thinking to myself on the way to the interview, this is my first client, like, I am going to do this on my own. But like, I could work with them sort of like, you know, part-time and have this as a big, pretty big gig. And then I'll still continue to try to build over here and I won't be broke and life will be great. And so I've kind of got myself pretty worked up. And I went to that interview and she basically looked at me and said, "No, if you work for us, you can't work for anybody else and you can't do anything else and it's either an all or nothing situation." And she was offering me almost double the salary that I just had walked away from. So it was pretty substantial at that time. And I looked at her and this is when I knew because to walk away and do that. I was shaking. I remember my knees shaking, but I looked at her and I said, "I'm going to have to say no then." And she looked at me and she was like mad and she said, like she had basically almost called me stupid. And she said, "Why would you do that?" And she said, "Because right now you have nothing and look what I'm offering you." She said, "You haven't even started yet, so you have absolutely nothing." I looked at her with everything I had in me and I said, "I have the belief in myself and I have my God-given talents that I know that I can go out and make a difference in other people's lives, and I am willing to take that belief in myself for everything that I have and give it a go because I wouldn't be true to myself if I didn't at least give this a fair try." And she said goodbye, and I said goodbye. And then for almost 20 years, she never hired me to speak at her company convention or anything like that. And then all of a sudden she did. So that was kind of funny to get called 20 years later and say, I think you could help our sales field now.

Well, that definitely drives home the whole point of focusing on the long game. But what was— what I was thinking in my mind as, as, as you were relating the story was she wants to hire you to bring in everything that you're doing into their business, as if you're going to be the person who's going to help them grow and succeed. But how dare you think you have the tools to do that without us? I know, right? Isn't that crazy? And this is what people get all over the place, and I really want the listeners who are gonna listen to this show to really have that point drive home, that how many people out there have either told you specifically, the listener, or you and I, the people who are having this conversation now, our value is only based on our partnering with someone else, whether it be in a business, whether it be in a relationship, right? And how abusive that can really be and how it's really not even seen in the entrepreneurship world as an abusive statement when I think as a therapist it actually is. It's kind of like a husband telling a wife or a wife telling a husband or a man telling whatever, you can't leave this relationship because you would be nothing without me. And I really want people out there to take this very seriously that the value that you bring to the table, you have to own and not let anybody tell you otherwise.

Yeah. And so, and that, that's the moment. I think that moment when I walked away from that doubled salary and said no to that offer, I think it was the, the moment and everything ahead of me was very uncertain. But I knew that I was going to make it.

And here you are today with all these amazing things that are going on for you. And what's next? What's the next big thing for you? I know, right, books and workshops and speaking. What's the next big thing you're working on? And then I have a really, really good question to throw you as a curveball question.

Oh boy. Well, this next year will be celebrating 25 years of my working sort of in the direct selling space. And Working from Your Happy Place was kind of a We started that 2 years ago to not just work in a niche industry, but really let my name get out there to all entrepreneurs. And so we've been sort of gradually making that transition. But this next year is my 25th anniversary, and we are going on a big tour. So we'll do 25 cities across the country. We did that on our 20th. It was a huge success. It'll probably be the last big huge tour like that that I do where we just cram 25 cities in like 4 months. And I have another book on the horizon, which I'm really excited about, and it won't be direct sales specific. It'll be for everyone. And we've actually got a couple that we've been working on. So I'm kind of like really ramping that up of sort of having a whole new, like, like still sticking with me and the way I've trained and what I know, but like broadening my audience. So, and, and sort of rebranding a bit. So we're kind of excited about that.

Very, very cool. So you ready for the curveball question?

Sure.

So I call this the On One Foot question, and it's in 2 minutes or less. If you were only able to have one conversation with someone and never be able to speak with them again. In 2 minutes or less, what wisdom would you want them to walk away with after talking to you?

What wisdom would I want them to have from me, or what wisdom would I like to gain from them?

So let's start— that's great, no one's ever kicked it back that way. So let's start off— let's start off with just the main— what would you want them to learn from you, from all the wisdom that you've gathered in that time? If you know that you can never connect with them again, what would you— what would you want to leave them with?

Gosh, this is— it's a curveball, isn't it? I guess if I had one thing that I want people to believe is they can, they can, they can be whatever that they want to be if they believe in themselves and if they gather the right resources in order to do it. And that's what I always like to try to impart with people is you truly can carve out your path to be whatever you want to be if you will make the effort and you will gather the right resources to help you do that. Don't let things block you. Don't let things stand in your way, and that's why I try to share story. I'm a big storyteller. I try to share story after story of people I know that were in positions like that and then how they didn't let it stop them and how they overcame great obstacles obstacles. And so that's what I'm still always trying to impart. And I guess it wouldn't matter if it was— but when you first said it, it was one person, so I didn't know how you're going to frame that question. But the one thing that I regret that I've never pushed myself to do, and I still could have this short little tiny window, but playing the drums all of my life. And I still can play the drums pretty well. I don't play professionally, but I still kick around in my basement and I still can play if I had to. I played at my high school reunion a couple of weeks ago. And I always wanted to play with Bob Seger. Like, I just love Bob Seger. And I want to meet Bob Seger. And I want to play the drums with Bob Seger. So like, it's like, that was my big bucket goal. And he's doing his farewell tour. And I'm like, man, I never even told it to him though. Like, how silly was that? I had this dream inside me for 50 years, and I've never shared it. So that's a regret.

So then I'm going to give you a major challenge, which is I think the first I've ever done on this podcast. Is, you know, as we talked about before, about having direct access to people through social media.

Yeah.

And I want to challenge you that, right, today is the 16th of the month, that I want to find within the next 30 days that you have reached out to as many people as you can who either are directly in contact with him, whether it's his management company, whether it's his social media, right, on multiple platforms to see how you can go to a concert, whether it's local or near or not, and just play drums with them for 5 minutes. 3, 1 song, 1 song, whatever it may be. So that's gonna be my, my challenge to you so we can inspire everybody out there. And then we're gonna come back and we're gonna connect on this, and we're gonna do a follow-up for this. But if there's anybody out there who has a connection with Bob Seger, right? Not Pete Seeger, Bob Seger. And I actually might know somebody who does. So we're gonna make sure that the listeners hold— I'm gonna hold you accountable and the listeners are gonna hold both of us accountable over the next 30 days. So by the middle of November, you will at least have a yes or no, okay, whether this is gonna be possible to happen for you. And I want to be part of this, part of this massive joy.

No kidding. I've had on my mind for a long time and I just haven't really done anything about it.

Well, we're gonna get it.

I just told you that.

I'm glad. So that means, right, we have to hold you accountable so we can bring it to the next level for you as a, as a celebration of your 25 years, right? We want to— maybe we can give you a little bit of a gift for that. So in order for people to help you do this, one, for them to work with you, to connect with you, but also if there's anybody out there that's going to hear this and can somehow connect you with anybody in that community, how can they contact you?

You can contact us stepintosuccess.com. So if you go to info@stepintosuccess.com, you— I will get that message for sure. And, and you can send me a message through Facebook. So I'm on there, Belinda Ellsworth. And I'd love it if people liked our business page. That'd be awesome. It's Step Into Success, Belinda Ellsworth, direct selling expert. And then go visit Work From Your Happy Place because we're really building, still continuing to build that brand. And check out the podcast, you'll love it. I've got great guests like Jason Wasser and lots of other really wonderful entrepreneurs and really great inspira— inspiring stories, seriously. The man that I had on yesterday was a— he had a triple organ transplant triple organ surgery, you know, like replacement. I am losing the word there, but that is, and he was the first one to ever have, you know, 3 organs replaced at the same time, his heart, his kidneys, and his pancreas. Then, that was 15 years ago. So, how he paved the way for a lot of other people, especially he is diabetic, and that was just so inspiring and how he just didn't give up and people told him he wasn't going to live and and just to, and he ran and built a successful business all the while he was going through all this, having transplants, that's the word I was looking for, having a heart transplant, kidney and pancreas all at the same time, and still managing to have a successful business and run it, and how do you compartmentalize that? How do you, you know, and we just talked about hope and continuing to have hope, and it was the most inspiring interview yesterday. We have all kinds of different people on there that go through different walks of life and are different seasons of life and different places in their journey. I think that is important for all of us to understand is all of us are in a season of life and you are going to go through another season and it is important to embrace each one of those and take on what life has to throw at you and be willing to be your best version of your best self.

Awesome. So, I want to congratulate you on all the incredible success along the journey that you have had and the best-selling book that people can find on Amazon and other platforms, on the amount of people that you're connecting with and inspiring. And, you know, again, like I said, the reason why I want to have inspiring people like you on is so I can share this data back out with my world, with my clients, and especially in my practice, the Family Room Wellness Associates, which is a mind-body wellness practice here in Fort Lauderdale that I work with clients both in person and online. And really, really glad that we're able to spend this time together today, and I really look forward to us following up in the next little bit on the challenge that I'm crazily holding you to, and how much fun we can have with— because we want to do it from a place of fun and happiness.

Yes, absolutely.

So we're gonna have fun working on this and collaborating on this, and hopefully some other projects in the future together as well.

Okay, thank you so much, Jason Wasser.

We'll talk to soon. Thank you.

All right, bye-bye.

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