Have We Got A Match For You Ep. 4: Why Am I Attracted To Who I Am Attracted to? Part 1

Welcome back to another episode of the Have We Got a Match for You podcast. I'm Jason Wasser. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist here in South Florida, and I'm with my sidekick of part of this dynamic duo. Matchmaker extraordinaire, food lover.

Shh, that's our secret.

Not anymore. Who are you?

Hi everybody, welcome back. I am Chava Shaulov. I am a Jewish matchmaker for the singles community around the world. I coach my singles, I help them navigate through the dating process, along with Jason Wasser, and excited for this topic tonight. Jason, what a wonderful—

another one, another one, another good one, another great one. So this is really— so we put out a poll about a week, a week or two ago, and one of the things that we put on there was like, hey, pick an option of what you want us to talk about. And this one came up pretty highly rated, if I'm not mistaken, of the idea of why do we attract what we attract, right? And we see this in all the different forms and all the different groups of like, why am I getting the same story over and over again? Why do I always have the same people treating me the same way? You know, why does my scenarios always end up with the same type of results? And we're gonna get into unpackaging both some of the practical stuff of what you can do in, in practice, in real life, and also understanding some of the neurology and the research behind why this all makes sense and how you can choose at a certain level to start attracting more of what you need versus what's going on for you in a neurological level, which is kind of surprising because we wouldn't think that like romance and marriage and love and dating is neurological, right?

Right, correct. And yeah, it's interesting how everything is intertwined into us being ultimately in control of it, you know.

Exactly. So I know that one of the things that I want to start off with was just a brief, quick understanding of this idea of now that we're in the end of what, you know, it's, it's 2020, 2021. And this idea that for a long time in most of our communities, there's, there's a major element of, you know, the idea that you're choosing to love as part of this process, you're having an option, you're having a choice of saying who you want to be in a relationship with. And even more so if you want to get married to that person and that person wants to get married to you, that you both have a choice and a say in that matter. And as I was doing research for tonight, most people don't realize that this idea of independent autonomy when it came to relationships, the idea of, of an independent, independent personal autonomy started off in the 16th century, but it really didn't kick in until the late 18th century. In America, where people started having the independent right to marry for love. And the also the idea in this concept that they can choose their own destiny. It's kind of like those Choose Your Own Adventure books, right? If you turn to page 42, this will happen to you. So this idea that like the change from sociopolitical, who you marry is arranged, right? The arranged marriage concept that still happens in many circles, even though people do have the right to say yes or no. We're not going to get into the peer pressure aspects of that or the familial pressure of that tonight. Totally different topic. But for most of us, if not all of us listening to this episode tonight, we have the choice to be in a relationship with who we want to be in a relationship with, and we have a choice to say yes or no, or to ask that person, right, when the proposal comes in, to choose to walk down the aisle and stand under the— right, under the marriage canopy to do so. So this idea of it changing from a sociopolitical that you're getting set up for the sake of land ownership, for the sake of two families coming together, right? Straight out of, uh, you know, our two families will create a dynasty, right? Kind of like The Crown, right? Changed to a psychological and spiritual process around the late 1800s. So this is a new phenomena. And I think— I wonder how they're like, you know, reading those, like, you know, people who like love those romantic novels of like medieval times and whatever, and they have like the person they're married to and then they sneak out to their loved one somewhere. Right? That's why those experiences were happening, because the marriage was for sociopolitical, it wasn't for love. And that's why I think that, right, that whole romance novel of the medieval times and pre, you know, normal, our timeframe was so popular for so long in literature.

Right, correct. And I think things are changing now, in my perspective. People are— I'm hoping people are very much more in tune of not just— I mean, you have a demographic of people who are very into the social status and what their parents do for a living, and they have to match that type of expectations. But I do believe there's a demographic of singles out there who generally want to marry someone because they truly believe in love. They want to be loved, they want to feel nurtured, they want to feel cared for, and they want to reciprocate that. And I think that dynamic today amongst the singles is there is a lot of pressure to find that right match, to find that same person who matches their frequency, that matches their, their energy level. I think There's a mixture of both, but I do believe there's a more— the singles community today are more in touch with wanting to feel that love and that type of need for it, for marriage.

Yeah. So I want to break that down a little bit because, you know, the way that I want to explain it to everybody who's listening is going to be the most possibly unsexy, sexy way of understanding this type of connection. Of understanding love, and it actually is neurologically based. And most people don't realize that, that it's actually coming from the parts of our brain, you know, that we think that we have this rational idea of who we want to be with and that we're actually making a decision proactively based on that. And science and research shows that that's actually quite the opposite to what's happening. So I want to explain a little bit of this because for many people, this will be the first time they've ever heard this. And when I started, you know, my training and all the different theories for couples and relationship counseling. This idea of the Imago, which was by Harville Hendrix, uh, the Imago model is all about why we attract what we attract. And I'm going to get to what his final result is, but I want to walk through a little bit of the science just in quick bullet points so people can have a construct or an idea of what's really happening and why they keep hitting their head against the wall over and over. And they feel like the whole process of dating and relationships are actually insane, right? So we just talked a moment ago about the shift in the late 1800s from sociopolitical to free choice when it came to attraction and deciding to feel emotional about someone versus like, our land size will triple if we get married. So one of these things that came along with that idea of individual rights came the beliefs that most decisions were made by our rational part of our brain. So I'm going to give a quick neurology lesson, the quickest I can do in 20 seconds to make sense. We have a theory called the triune brain theory, the three parts of our brain. We have our neocortex, which is our rational brain. We have our mammalian brain, which is the limbic system, the seat of our emotions. And we have our reptilian brain, the, you know, the, the lizard brain. That part of our brain is responsible for survival, fight, flight, feeding, and the other F, reproducing, right? The basic instincts, heart rate, survival. Am I safe? Am I not safe, right? Neocortex, rational. Mammalian, emotional. Reptilian, survival. So we think that we're making a choice with— in our right minds. I'm fully conscious of this process. I'm completely aware of what's going on. I know what I'm doing. I know this is the right one for me. And I'm not going to get into again now, like all the cold feet and the doubts and the anxiety about, you know, walking down from the time of engagement or getting engaged to, you know, walking down the aisle. But think about this again, right? Our neocortex is our rational brain. Our limbic brain, the mammalian part, is emotional, and our reptilian brain is survival. So those three parts of our brain are possibly constantly fighting against each other. But one is conscious and the other two are sub conscious and unconscious. So you think you're making rational decisions, but your subconscious and unconscious is driving you towards something. And here's what Harville Hendrix came up with this— in this theory, he said that our unconscious mind, the survival part of our brain, is focusing on feeling whole, complete, and safe. And how do we do that in a relationship? By finding someone who can help us heal our unfinished wounds from our early life, such as our childhood. And that part right there is where we go— the difference between finding the right person on paper, right? When you are setting up a match with someone, you're like, this person will be perfect for them, there's no way they would say no. And then they spend time with them, after 5 minutes there's not even any chemistry. That's what's going on with them.

Right, exactly. I hear you and I feel this, everything's intertwined. There's, you know, so basically, essentially, it's a matter of perception. Is that what essentially what it is?

Well, it's the fact that our non-rational brain is overpowering our rational brain and saying, will he or she heal me? Will they heal me?

Right.

Versus, is this person the right person on paper that can allow me to be a good partner, right?

So basically, so pretty much we— why do we attract who we attract? Is this— can essentially be broken down into two separate categories: perception and self-esteem, right? So perception, which everybody is approached by good people and the wrong people. We attract everybody, right? It's our choice, our conscious choice, and our decision to chase the ones that are usually wrong for us. If you have unfinished business within you, if you have some sort of void you need to fill within you, why are you chasing the wrong person who's not emotionally investing into you? Why are you chasing the person who's not even giving you the slightest amount of attention? You're trying to— asking for attention for what reason? You're trying to fill the void within you because you're trying to find validation to somebody who's rejecting you. Right. And our, and our perception is that's based on self-esteem. Our perception is we, we, we, we were masking someone and we're trying to pretend that they have this value when they really have no value to them. We're trying to pretend and fantasize that they are who they are in our mind, but it's, but in reality, they don't even exist. So I feel like it's competing with each other, our conscious and subconscious mind. Does that make sense?

Yeah. So let's break that down even more into a practical sense. And take it a step further, right? So again, we have the idea that our unconscious mind is focusing on feeling whole and healing early childhood wounds, what I would call unfinished business, right? Stuff that you bring to the table that you don't even realize is there, that you're projecting. And the way I describe this to my clients is kind of like, you know, if you had a criminal lineup, right? And instead of having all the different people, you're like, oh, well, that's the person, right, that did the crime. You can have the version of the person that you're attracted to be exactly the same physical look. And, right, there could be 6 of them there. But once you start engaging with them, mannerisms, ways of speech, movement, right, this energy that's field, the way that they may do, you know, they may choose, like they may hold your hand when you say something, the way they may look at you. All will trigger those old responses that may help you think— and this is a trick— may help you think that that person has the tools required to complete the process that got stunted at a certain developmental stage in my childhood because of some type of familial or parental wounding. And therefore, that then becomes the unrealized responsibility of that other person. It gets projected onto the other person, and when they fall short of that, that's when fights and disagreements and arguments and disconnection comes up.

Why? Because there's an expectation level that you're unconsciously— right?

And that's where this whole idea— what was it? The— what's her— Gwyneth Paltrow had her conscious uncoupling from her husband, right? This whole idea of conscious uncoupling versus— right? The idea started with conscious relationships versus unconscious relationships, right? It's the right person on paper, the right stats on paper, versus the right chemistry to heal. Meaning, again, for those who wants to hear— want to hear that again, we are attracted to those who have the traits and tools to heal us, or on the flip side, to hurt us even more based on our childhood wounds. So what does it mean that they can help heal us? If you have done your work, you've gone to therapy, you've done journaling, you've done personal work, you've really invested in your self-care, you're aware of your triggers, you're aware of your stories, you're aware of your wounds, you're aware of why you do that, what you do, what pisses you off, what pushes your buttons, what makes you excited, what makes you happy, what you appreciate, right? All those things. You're gonna find more likely that you'll attract someone equivalent to that person who's done that equivalent amount of work within a you know, a ratio. On the flip side, those who have not done that work will find the equal and opposite partner of someone who also on their world hasn't done their work, has been stuck in unconscious land, and will be attracted to you and you to them. And therefore, that will cause more hurting than healing.

You have to repeat that. That was really good. Excellent, Jason Wasser.

Right. So basically, the practical term, everybody who's out there who's saying, "I'll do the work when I'm in a relationship. When I find the right partner, then I can finally do the right stuff," is missing the huge part of it. Yes, that's necessary and needed because you need someone to push up against to create some friction so you know what other things were hidden below the surface for you to work on. But here's the neuroscience behind this. We are attracted to those who have the traits and the tools to heal us or to hurt us more than we already were in childhood based on our childhood wounds and the work we did around it. So if you are stepping into dating situations and you have never invested more than maybe reading a, you know, pop culture book on dating and relationships, not done consistent process work, unpackaging old wounds, unpackaging beliefs, unpackaging family stories, why you are choosing to respond to certain scenarios in certain ways and who are you inheriting that from, right? You know, whose body language are you mimicking? Whose stories are you taking on and still playing out of intergenerational themes? The more you unpackage that, you will equivalently attract someone else who's equally in their own world, done that work. And the more both of you do that, the healthier the relationship would be. The more— also, the more healthier of a relationship attract. The people who have done minimal relationship work on themselves and work on their own unfinished business will attract someone equivalently to that. And I always use this, like, this reference of like, the Dalai Lama will never run off with a— the Dalai Lama might love the stripper as a student and as a person that they want to help uplift, but there's not going to be that emotional unfinished business attraction to draw them to each other. Now, that person who's done— I'm not saying, you know, I use this as a very far extreme between, right, those two paradigms. It could be anybody, but right, but let's just assume that whoever that is that has not— that has tons of trauma, they're carrying around tons of trauma, is going to be attracted to someone who's whole and healthy. But that person is probably not going to be attracted to them back unless they still have unfinished business in that category. And that's what's going on, right? So this depends on really what we call the unconscious versus right? A conscious versus unconscious relationship. And the more work we do on our wounds, the more we are going to get a higher frequency version of what we attract.

Wow.

So talk to me about how this is playing out and talk to us about how this is playing out, right? You're hearing these stories all the time. What are some of the variations of that that you hear over and over again?

Oh, wow. Um, ignoring the warning signs. Ignoring the red flags. I mean, you hear this concept of red flag, red flag. I think it's overused, first of all, okay? Not everything is a red flag, not everything's a deal breaker. Everyone needs to calm down with this red flag business, calm down. But on the opposite end, when you, when you go on a date, when you have a phone call prior to the date, right, and the person is exhibiting foul language, he's aggressive, or she's not being Uh, she's being constantly defensive, she's attacking you, right? So these are all warning signs. People are who they are when they show you who they are, right? So when you ignore these warning signs, a person who's not, um, vibing on a certain level, they're vibing on a very low vibrational level, they're not— they, they, they, their behavior is very not scripted, but it's, it's a behavior like you'll find in a textbook where they have a lot of unfinished business, they're, they're projecting they're projecting their insecurities, they're what I call vomiting on their dates, right? My ex is like this, my ex is like that, my girlfriend is like this, everybody's crazy, whoever they dated was crazy, they themselves are not crazy, right? These are warning signs when you go into like— I know, trust me, I've been on dates where they're like, oh, she's a crazy one.

Well, the common denominator must be you, right? That person, right? That person is the common denominator between what they're getting.

Right, so my point is that when a person shows up to your date and they're projecting these type of insecurities, believe that they're not in the mindset to have a healthy relationship, to sustain a relationship. It's going to get worse and worse and worse. Do not, do not miss the warning signs. Do not, do not chase red flags. Do not continue. And I'm not the one to nix matches. I'm here to help navigate. I help them, you know, I give them pros and cons to the situations. I can't, I don't disconnect people.

And it also has to be healthy though, right?

It has to be healthy. So if a guy's, I'm speaking from a woman's perspective, and it goes both genders. If you have a fantastic date, it was healthy, it was fun, it was exciting, you guys got to know each other on a nice level, you guys asked different questions, you asked about hobbies, and they were very expressive, and they were very very vulnerable, they're very real and raw, they didn't exhibit any type of negative traits where they were talking nonsense about their exes, keep on going. But the second a person shows you some sort of warning sign that's not healthy, then— and you continue that, then you're putting yourself in a predicament where you're going to attract the wrong people, and you're going to continue dating the wrong people until you open up your eyes and say, I'm not going to chase this type of person because they have nothing to offer me. And they're not on the same energy level.

Yeah.

Because if you're— if you're emotionally investing into you, right, you have to invest into yourself. The longest relationship you're going to have is going to be with yourself, not with anybody else. So if you're not going to invest into yourself emotionally, you're, you're just gonna stay stagnant.

You're gonna keep on being the same wrong people, and you're shortchanging every aspect of your life— personally, professionally, spiritually, all of that.

Exactly, everything's connected. You're— you're— yeah, everything's connected. And again, when we say why do we attract who we attract, we make that conscious decision. We make that decision to chase someone because they're not giving you attention. Forget that, erase that, move on, you know. And don't— and don't continuously look for someone who's going to validate you as well. Like, it's not— you're not in that type of mindset if you're— if you're chasing the wrong people and you're attracting the same type of people, then stop. Take a breather. Take a few steps back from the dating pool. Nothing's going to happen to you tomorrow. And think about why are you attracting the wrong people? What are you trying to fill within you? What type of void?

Right. And here's what the thing is, right? People don't want to take that break because they're afraid they're going to miss, right, that dating FOMO of what happens if they're the next person I'm going to date. But yeah, but don't you want to be the healthiest version of yourself? To show up in front of them? And don't you want them to be the healthiest version of themselves to show up in front of you? And if this is where you're at now and you're coming from a reactive place, you're coming from, right, a desperate place. Desperation reeks. That expression does mean exactly that which it means. Desperation reeks. And confidence, healthy confidence, expands out 100%.

And you're going to be magnetic— magnetically attracted to somebody else who's also confident, right? You are who you attract. If you're— if you're vibing on a very confident and you're secure and you're— and you're very self-conscious, you're self-aware, you've— you've done the work, you've done introspection, you've done development, you've went to therapy, you went to counseling, you're going to attract the same person because you're going to see that they have what to— whatever you have to offer, they're able to reciprocate, right?

Absolutely.

And also, like, people are like, oh, I'm getting older, I have to settle down. But if you don't handle your own emotions, if you don't work on yourself, you're going to date the wrong people for the next 5 to 10 years. So it's, it's a better decision to take a couple of months off, 4 months, 6 months, stop dating, retreat, find a coach, find a therapist, work on yourself. And this way you're not going to spend next 5, 7, 8 years dating the wrong people because you're so afraid of being alone. You're so afraid of being lonely. But take that time out, invest into you, and that's gonna be the most— the greatest investment you can ever do for yourself, right? And you'll see here, you'll save years for yourself for sure.

And I want to add on to what you just said, that if you, the listener, and anybody out there is saying, I want to be in a relationship, or I want to be married because I'm getting older, or I'm not gonna be able to have children, or I'm not gonna fit into a community. If there's any other reason beyond the fact of the words, I want to be in a good, healthy relationship because I'm in a good and healthy place and ready to attract someone else who's good and healthy, then you're not going to get a really good and healthy relationship when you're doing it from one of those reactive places versus fully being able to embrace the experience being willing to do even more work with the person that's showing up, right? And I see this all the time. A client called me today and they're like, I really want— we really need to go to couples counseling. There's a lot going on, but my husband doesn't want to go in. I'm really sorry, I can't help you. What do you mean? I don't take clients where one partner doesn't want to show up. I only take people who are both sides ready to go regardless of what the conflict is. But If that person doesn't want to be there and they don't believe in therapy, I'm not going to spend the next 4 sessions trying to prove anything to them of why they should listen to me when no one should have to listen to me. They should want to be here to parlay, to brainstorm and to strategize and to get out of their own way. But if they're already creating justification and excuses for why they can't, then that's not the type of client I work with. I'm happy to work with you individually, but I'm not gonna work with you as a couple, unless that person is saying, I'm ready to go. I do buy into this process. And if you're in a dating process, and you tolerate that type of stuff, right, I want to just wrap this up with the idea of toleration tendencies. Because this is why you're keep— we keep on getting what we get. Part 1 is not doing this stuff that we've talked about, which we're going to probably get into further in other episodes. But Part 2 is what are you tolerating in your life that you're willing to keep tolerating versus what you're no longer willing to keep tolerating. And that's a huge part of the stuckness that we get in when it comes to these scenarios. I went out with this person and they did this. I'm no longer willing to tolerate someone who says these type of things, acts these type of ways, does this type of thing, maybe has this type of lifestyle, maybe even is in this type of community or even in this type of career because there's more negative to it than there is positive. And I'm going to have a tolerance— a stop tendency instead of a toleration tendency to no longer choose to date someone with that type of scenario. And that's a big, huge shift and change. So I really want people to realize that, like, come up with a stop tolerating list. If you're listening to this, this is your assignment. Take out a piece of paper. And from here on out, what are you— what do you need to stop tolerating in your life. Start with your relationships. I will no longer date blank, this type of personality, this type of scenario, this type of whatever it may be. If I see them— I have a rule of thumb. If I see a woman on a date roll her eyes at any of the help staff, the date's immediately over. She's already showing, right, that level of contempt for someone who is obviously there for whatever, right? They're working. They're working hard. They're working to pay their way to do whatever they're doing. And you have the audacity to roll their eyes at them because they didn't do something right? That's an automatic— for me, that's an automatic black, right? That's it. There's no line in the sand after that. It's check, please, right? So those are things that you— they were like, oh, well, maybe they're just having a bad day. But if you see it, fine. If you see it twice, you see it 3 times, That's a personality trait. That's not a one-off. That's what I'm talking about. What are those things that you're no longer willing to tolerate and that you put an automatic end to the dating scenario, to the relationship if it is a relationship, or if you're just dating, or if you're just getting to know someone like, "Yeah, this, I'm sorry, this just doesn't work for me." And here's the trigger, Chabad, I want people really to hear this and I want to challenge you even to start sharing this with people. You don't need to give them a justification or excuse why not. Thank you.

In other words, right, I see this all the time. You don't— and many of my singles who I coach for the past, I don't know, 5 and a half, 6 years, they can all attest to this. I say this all the time. You don't need to validate why you're breaking up with somebody. If he's not for you, if she's not for you, you don't need to validate your decision There's no need to justify your decision. You need to be strong, stand on your own two feet, be secure, secure in what you believe in, understand that you have boundaries. And if you allow someone to overstep your boundaries, you're losing your self-respect. So give that respect back to yourself. If someone is not for you, he's not for you. That's it, the end. Right.

And I'll give you, I'll give everybody a script. To use. I really want to thank you for your time. I wish you the best of luck, but this isn't working for me.

Exactly. Period.

Do not add anything. Do not try to handle their objections, their rebuttals. But why? But why? But why? What did I do? Again, thank you. I appreciate the time to get to know you. This isn't going to work for me.

And I think there's enough closure. I think people always talking about, I never got closure. That is closure.

Someone's telling you, you're not responsible for their closure. You're not— right, guys, hear this.

Exactly.

You're not responsible for anybody else's closure when you decide that that scenario is no longer working for you. And this applies in all different types of scenarios, but most specifically we're talking about relationships right now. It doesn't mean that in the possibly— right, if that person's like, no, let's talk about— let's work it out, if it's about— right, you're already invested in a relationship. I'm talking about in the early stages of first couple dates, right? Or first couple conversations after a date, maybe not even meeting. But to say like, hey, like, you know, I'm just not feeling it, or right, there just doesn't seem to be enough banter for me, or right, but that's too much.

It's too much.

Thank you so much for your time. I really wish you the best of luck. This isn't going to work for me. And that's it. It doesn't need to be this emotional— you're not being mean, you're not being rude, you're not being a dick, you're not being a biatch. You're being— this is— listen, at those stages, there's no obligations.

Exactly.

And, and that's the healthiest thing you can do. So, Chav, I think I want to follow up this conversation maybe, you know, on our next episode, and I want to go through what the characteristics are of a conscious relationship.

Yes.

And then see how we can then jump off that and maybe even invite some people in to leave us some questions and something like that. But for everybody out there, we do want to thank you so much for checking in and hanging out with us. We're so excited to always do this, and I know Chava, you spent some, you know, time and an already busy day to prep for this. So I want to thank you again for hanging out and partnering with me on this really cool project.

Thank you, Jason Wasser. I did not prep for this. It's okay. Thank you, Jason Wasser. He's calling me out. Thank you, Jason Wasser.

This is all scripted, guys. This is all— this is totally professional.

I want everyone to know this: we do not rehearse, we did not practice, we do not share questions. We literally pick a topic and we just talk like we do on the phone, like, or, hey, what's going on? For like an hour and a half to 2 hours. But like, we do not know what is going to fly, so we hope you guys enjoy our discussions. We're looking forward to part 2 of why do we attract who, like, why do we attract who we attract? And hopefully we can compare the conscious signs and the unconscious signs. Yeah, whole healthy relationship for sure. Looking forward.

You got it. And then for those of you out there who have not yet followed us on Instagram, have we got a match for you. Please show us some love. And then, you know, obviously you can interact with us there. You can leave us questions if you want. You can reach out to us that way. And we look forward to seeing you on our next episode.

Yes, thank you. Good night, everybody.