You Winning Life Ep. 111-Denis Thompson Wants to Solve Your Pain

Alright everybody, welcome back. Today I'm super excited to be talking to today's guest. As you know, I am a therapist and one of my favorite modalities and tools and now approaches of seeing the world and helping my clients with both emotional and physical stressors is the modality neuro-emotional technique. And today's guest is Dennis Thompson, who has patented a therapy called neurotherapy, which treats why you have symptoms, not where you have symptoms. So for the past 25 years, he's helped more than 500,000 patients worldwide eliminate their pain. No drugs. He sped up the process of healing. And recovery. He has a background as an exercise physiologist and has helped athletes and national champions and world championships and as well as other people around the world helping eliminate pain and increasing and accelerating recovery. So Dennis, super excited for this conversation.

Yeah, Jason, I appreciate that. I think we're going to have a very open dialogue and very, very educational for both of us and hopefully the listeners.

Sure. So for, for, for, as we get started off, right, there's so many people in the physical healing space, uh, with different terminologies and different definitions and different job descriptions. And, um, you know, PT and athletic trainer and chiropractor, um, right, athletic training, right? So an exercise physiologist, according to you, is what? And what makes it different from some of those other fields that I just listed?

Well, let's, let's start by everything I do has nothing to do with exercise physiology. So, uh, and the reason I say that is, uh, one of the very first things I asked when I was, uh, going to school is why do we have atrophy? And my professor could not answer that question. Now, as you probably looked in my bio, I'm a why guy, not a where guy. So I wanted to find out why we have atrophy, not where we have atrophy. It's pretty self-explanatory where we have atrophy, but why do we have atrophy? And if I can't answer it physiologically, well, then it's not physiological. So then what else is there? Neurological. So the minute I started looking at it neurologically, uh, the lights came on. And we did a double-blind study, uh, at the University of Hawaii to demonstrate that we can eliminate atrophy. Now keep in mind, Jason, there's atrophy all over the world, even to this day, to this second, right? In the normal therapeutic world, they have no answer for atrophy, even though we've had a double-blind study since 2010 showing what the answer is. They They still don't accept that answer. And the reason they don't is because they have not been educated, nor was I, in the neurology of what they do. They are educated in the physiology of what they do. Newtonian thinking. The body is a mechanical device with chemical reactions, when in reality the body is an electrical device with mechanical actions.

Absolutely.

So those are two diametrically different points of view. And you only know what you know, and you only know what you're educated in. And there's not a medical school in the entire world that teaches the neurology of what they do.

So let's break down a few terms, because there might be some people listening to this episode that have not heard or can't differentiate between some of those things. So let's, let's define what atrophy is. Let's define what physiology is. And then as that relates to what you were saying to the neurological connection.

When we have trauma, uh, whether it be a physical trauma or whether it be a surgical trauma, uh, the muscle reacts and it loses its ability to regain its strength. Uh, some people call it muscle wasting. Um, most medical people call it atrophy. It's where a muscle uh, does not respond, uh, to strength work, and because of the injury, it reduces in size. So it used to be if you broke your leg and you broke your right leg, uh, your left leg, let's say, was 24 inches in diameter and your broken leg was that at prior to the break. After the break, it went down to 18. That's atrophy. A sudden decrease in muscular size. The reverse of that is hypertrophy, which means that you're back to your original size. So now physiology is the way we look at how muscles work. Muscles work by lengthening and contracting. Muscles work by— if you add a load to them, they get stronger. If you add too much load, they get weaker. If you add too little load, they get weaker. So when you weaken a muscle, it also can be classified as atrophy. So when you have surgery, you can expect to have a different size muscle coming out of the surgery than you did going into the surgery. If you have an injury on an athletic competition, you can expect that this injured side is going to be lesser in diameter than the non-injured side. That would be a layman's term of atrophy.

And when it relates to neurological experiencing, so the way I'm looking at it and the way I've experienced it, both from the physical, um, side, but definitely looking at it metaphorically from the emotional side, when you use the word trauma, right, my, my brain started lighting up and saying like, you know, maybe our stressors in life, our response to stressors are some level of atrophy, using that same terminology. In other words, we're not able to be the full manifestation version of ourself in, in day-to-day life, and we shrink away and protect ourselves. And our emotions are those outputs of that experience to tell us, wait a second, something's going on, something needs to be looked at, something needs to be healed. And Dr. Walker, who is the founder of NeuroEmotional Technique, once shared with us that emotions aren't psychological, they're actually physiological, which is like a completely radical different way of looking at it, especially coming, you know, like you said, that, that Newtonian, like, you know, dividing up and, you know, part, you know, just looking at everything from a different mechanical perspective versus an electrical system. And if we're looking at emotions as a physiological output response versus just psychological, in other words, just not neck up, right? It's a response to everything that's going on in our experience, then we have a very different way of looking at healing both mind and body.

I think that's a fantastic analogy. And I've never heard that before, I must admit. But I think it's a fantastic analogy because When we're treating someone who has just lost a $25 million a year career due to massive trauma, one of the things that we will always see is a very, very large emotional component to that. I never thought of the emotional component as being atrophy, but now I think that's— you, you taught me something. I, I love that analogy. Because you're exactly right.

And point B is less than point A, you've got atrophy, right? Whether it's emotional, whether it's physiological, whether it's neurological.

I really never looked at it on the emotional side. We deal with emotion every single day of the week because I believe emotion is trapped in any type of injury. What— I don't care what kind of injury you have, you've got emotion trapped in there.

Sure.

And once I show the cognitive brain and get reinforcement from the cognitive brain that you can do something that you didn't think you could do earlier, that emotion comes out.

Agreed. And that's where a lot of this research was done by an American neurologist, a neuroscientist, Dr. Candace Pert. And, you know, she, she kind of laid these things out that like psychologists, we treat the mind as disembodied. This is a quote from her. A phenomenon with little or no connection to the physical body. Conversely, physicians treat the body with no regard to the mind or emotions. But the body and mind are not separate, and we can't treat one without the other. So her whole research, um, she has a book called Molecules of Emotion, which is incredible. But really what she found is that there are peptides that travel through our brain and our body that literally are the biochemistry and the emotions were actually, right, the seed of emotions can go anywhere in these peptides, go to any, right? So you can have an injury that didn't start actually from a trauma, but became, but that area or that system, so to speak, became weakened because the peptides of stress-related emotions went there. So literally, you can have a pain in your back from someone that's a pain in your back, right? But that can go anywhere to the weakest links that, right, from the external trauma or internal, right? Your internal landscape, emotional trauma. So when I'm doing my work with clients, one, as I evolved from the talk therapy, psychotherapy, I can only get from rational brain to rational brain or neocortex to neocortex, knowing that I'm hitting a wall and then years ago when I was having my panic attacks, and going around to different practitioners, to talk therapy, to trying some light psychiatric medication for anti-anxiety stuff, which didn't work. And then, you know, going to some wonderful acupuncturists who were wonderful. And I felt great for a few hours afterwards. Not saying that they were bad or their treatment was bad, right? But it wasn't doing the trick for that specific thing until I discovered this neuro-emotional technique modality that within 3 sessions got rid of my panic attack. Not only did it get rid of my panic attacks, and actually when I thought about the experiences that I were going through at that time, the traumatic experiences at that time, I literally felt like the thought would be on my brain and slide off like there was Vaseline on my brain. Like I couldn't force myself to hold that thought.

Sure.

That experience. And when I'm doing NET, that's the goal. Like we're trying to get you to as near neutral as possible. So your physiological fight or flight, right, that reptilian brain survival instinct doesn't kick in because that's, that's not proactive, that's reactive, to get you to as neutral as possible, which can get you to as strategic as possible, which can get you as multiple possibilities as possible.

So let me ask you this question. If— sure, if you had a, uh, a neurological training tool, which would immediately put your patient into a parasympathetic state instead of a fight or flight state, would that accelerate your results?

Absolutely. Right. So if you think about this, so for people who are, what, parasympathetic versus sympathetic stress, right? One is imagine holding your foot down on the gas pedal, right? Going from 0 to 60, right? Or 0 to 100. And then, you know, and the brake is, right, is slowing it down as your calm, as your relaxation, right? Getting you out of out of fight or flight and into more natural, calm, relaxed state of being. So what you're describing is, is there a tool? What would it be like if there was a tool that can, in a very short period of time, get us to do that, that doesn't take as long as hypnosis or meditation or breathwork or yoga or acupuncture, which does do that, right? But you're asking if there was a tool that does it quicker, would that help? Absolutely.

I have a tool that'll do it in 10 seconds.

Yeah.

So, let's talk about that because that's going to be—

I figured I'd grab your attention. Yeah.

Well, I mean, I knew we had to get there eventually, but that was the best segue into like, well, you know. And it's funny, like as I've over the years, as I've been hanging out with some really awesome entrepreneurs, right? You know, the whole thing about like sales and business is really like what problem are you uniquely solved and in what way can you uniquely solve it? Uniquely solve it. Right. So the way that you said it, like, if there was something out there that existed that can do this in a much shorter time, and you probably didn't even know this thing could happen and exist and be in a shorter time, would that be of interest to you?

Right.

That's, that's sale. That's sales marketing, right? Sales marketing gold right there. So yeah. So, so what the heck is this thing that you're talking about?

Well, first off, let's talk about how I got there.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, so in a journey, uh, looking for how to eliminate atrophy, in a journey looking for the answer to why does it take so long to recover from physical trauma injuries, why does it take so long to recover from surgical intervention, and you start looking at, well, how do they, how do they rate that period of time.

So you ask a doctor, how long is it going to take me to recover from ACL surgery?

And the doctor's going to say, if he's very conservative, a year. If the doctor's an aggressive doctor in the National Football League or the National Hockey League, 6 to 8 months.

I'm looking at that and I say, wait a minute, why does it take so long to do that?

I mean, we've got the best doctors in the world, we got the best therapists in the world, we got the best strength coaches in the world.

Why does it take so long? Well, when I finally got down to the answer, the answer is there's nobody putting you in parasympathetic. You, you are in fight or flight 24/7, 365, right? You just had an injury, you can't get rid of the injury, everybody's telling you it's going to take a year before you can get back. You're stuck with your foot slammed down on the accelerator.

So as a physiologist, I looked at that and said, it makes absolutely no sense.

That makes no sense. How do we get the brain to respond to a different stimuli? How do we take somebody out of sympathetic dominance, fight or flight, bears coming after you? How do we get you out of that position? Well, let's look at what we do.

Medication doesn't do it. Therapy doesn't do it. Physical therapy certainly doesn't do it. It actually puts you deeper into fight or flight because it hurts. So you go into deeper into fight or flight. Electrical stimulation certainly doesn't do it because the second you put electrical stimulation in the body, the brain goes, whoa, I got to protect against this. So now you're over further into sympathetic dominance.

So what else is there? So I began looking at that. I said, okay, how does our brain communicate?

Our brain communicates electrically.

Novel concept, right? 25 years ago, everybody thought the brain was hardwired. You couldn't do a thing with it.

Trust me, I've been doing neuroplasticity for 25 years before the word was even out there.

So I looked at it, I said, okay, How can I trick the brain into not responding to a negative signal? And then what would the net result of that be? So how do you measure, uh, it— Jason, to this day, this fascinates me beyond fascination, because you talk to a doctor about parasympathetic, sympathetic, and it's like talking to Greek.

I mean, you're beyond Greek.

And they—

what do you mean by that? You talk to a surgeon, what do you mean by that?

You know, so I used to ask the question to surgeons, is there an electrical component to surgery? What do you think the answer to that question was?

No, from them, absolutely not, unless there's something electrical that they're plugging in that the part— exactly, surgery.

I said, have you ever heard of an EMG?

Well, yeah.

What does EMG stand for? Electromyogram. What does that mean? It means you're measuring the electrical impulse going into a muscle. If you cut an electrical wire, does it affect the electrical wire? Of course it does. So answer it to the question is yes, there is a gigantic electrical disturbance in surgery.

Sure.

So then I looked at, okay, I got to get the brain not to focus on the problem.

I got to get the brain over into rest and recover, because if I do that, I can speed up recovery of any type of injury. Or surgery, period.

So I looked at an EMG wave, I looked at how the body communicates, and I said, aha, if I kind of mimic that kind of wave, then the brain is going to say, oh, I don't have to protect against that, I'm familiar with that. And so I created a kind of a technology—

won't give you all the secret sauce— but I created a technology that instantaneously allows the brain to go into rest and recovery.

Now what happens?

Heart rate goes down, blood pressure goes down, fear goes away.

Any type of neurological, any type of psychological trauma, now a therapist like you can do miracles in a very short period of time because you've got a canvas that is wide open to that suggestion. Prior to that, that's a long haul, man.

Right, right. So how does that work? Because it's, it's, you know, when I'm doing, like, moving from the talk therapy, which, you know, I still do a significant portion of the day and then utilize neuro-emotional technique both as as a full session or as, you know, brief interventions within a session, but I'm not using it with every client. A lot of them I'm now seeing remotely, uh, but my clients that I'm seeing in person now, um, post-pandemic, or as the pandemic is slowly hopefully ending, um, those that are coming to me in person for neuro-emotional technique, right, we're using a neurological muscle test to determine a physiological response to a semantic. That semantic can be a injury site, right, by accessing that injury site, by putting their hand where they feel it, or thinking about a memory, or a personal declarative of, "I'm okay doing podcast interviews," right? And seeing if there's— rationally, we know that they're like, "Well, of course I am," or, "I know that I'm not," but that's the narrative that they're experiencing is only what their logical brain came up with to protect them at that level.

No question.

Right, what we're looking for is going beyond that rational brain and going into that physiology of fight or flight that they can't determine whether their heart rate's starting to go up and they're starting to stress out and their pupils are gonna get dilated and stuff like that, and we don't have the tools, the average therapist, the average practitioner doesn't have the tools to notice that or to buy those tools to get that to say, and then to interpret it. So the muscle test we're looking for is the strong tweak as you were talking about, the strengthening or the lengthening, right? Where we'll determine, depending on which stage of the treatment that we're doing, what actually is going on as we bypass the rational brain, or as I like to say, you can't talk your way out of a paper bag, but we can, and we can figure out what's really going on. And then once we do that, we couple that with using the Chinese medicine meridian points, because the meridians, for people who haven't heard this yet, right, in Chinese medicine, there's the 5 main meridians. And, um, each one of those meridians are corresponding to a set of body parts or body organs. Um, but in that philosophy, they also correspond specific sets of emotions to each of those sets of body parts that correlate back to what we would call a meridian or an element, right? An element system. So we can then, you know, basically chunk it down, you know, flowchart it down to— and then ask them to now connect to it at a different non- narrative story level that they've been carrying. And like, well, what is— what's the connection to that emotion to this experience versus like, oh, I'm stressed out, right? And then we can use that to find an actual and original or earlier event in their life where that got stored in there as the original trauma that right now anything that seems similar, right? The theory of similarity, right? Like draws like, right? It's not necessarily about like, oh my gosh, like I got into a fight with my partner. So now every time I get into a fight with my partner, I'm going to have a trigger. It's no, what did you feel like and what does that represent to you about that experience? And what was, you know, people who fight with me must be blank. So we find that level, you know, the common denominator, the lowest common denominator. And that's where we play with the nervous system and the neurology and reset that from that point. So for you, like where, like what would be what, like, so that takes a little bit of time and it's not forever. It can take 3 minutes. It could take 10 minutes. It can take 12 minutes. We, you know, it's not a set time. It takes pretty quick compared to every other therapy that's out there. So you're saying within seconds, once connected to whatever this thing is, will automatically, without the person realizing it, will start affecting that.

Yeah. Keep in mind that, that, uh, there's a thing called— you're probably more aware of this than I am. When I became aware of it, I was astonished, but feel versus real. Okay, and so I'll have a client tell me, uh, I feel really, really anxious. I said, really? Okay, take your heart rate, tell me what it is. Well, it's 48. Okay, so let me give you an example, my friend.

That's a really low resting heart rate. That's pretty good. Yeah, stressed out, they're not at 48.

No, yeah, yeah, that's it.

Okay, I'm going to give you an example of feel versus real.

If you had anxiety, you'd be 135 to 150.

Here's the reality of it.

You aren't anxious, but you feel anxious. That is unreal. Real is scientific evidence that says you are not anxious. So once I demonstrate reality to what we consider real.

You can always use a scientific basis for reality, right? And when you demonstrate that and get cognitive reinforcement to that, okay, but you still feel anxious.

So what is feel? Feel is an emotion, okay? Where's that emotion coming from? Okay, it's coming from an experience. Where's that experience coming from?

See, that's what you dig into. You dig into the experience.

What I do then is I say, okay, I need to change the feel because it's not real, but I need to change the feel. Well, how do I change the feel? Well, what controls the feel?

Oh, let me think about that.

Oh, I know, the vagus system. So if I stimulate the vagal system, I'm going to give you a different feeling, right? And now you don't feel anxious and you aren't anxious, so therefore you are not anxious, right?

Which we would call near neutrality to any situation that you're reacting in through, which is the opposite of fight or flight, which is again proactive. And, and just to get into some numbers that you brought up, right, about the heart rate. So experts would technically consider, uh, this is from scienceline.org, um, about elevated— just related to heart rate during exercising, right? So when people are exercising, you get your heart rate up, it's good, but like actually getting yourself into a, um, you know, an unnecessary sometimes stressor, right? That exercise does stress and tax your body, but they consider basic fight or flight heart rate of a variable between 115 and 140 beats per minute. But that's for sustaining rapid, right, when you're optimally sustaining rapid or coherent thinking and quick reactions, right? So that's kind of like when athletes are doing quick twitch, right? They need to move on a dime, they need to pivot, whatever. They're saying that that's the optimal heart rate is 115 to 140 where your whole body, mind and body is going to work together. But at 140 and above, 140 beats per minute and above, the sympathetic nervous system begins shutting down certain unnecessarily useful body functions in order to only function on survival. So what I would say to people out there that if you, as we're moving more and more into the technology of things, and where most of us are— if you're wearing a digital watch that can track your heart rate relatively accurately, I would say relatively, I wouldn't rely on it.

Keyword is relatively.

Right, right. So, you know, when you are— you can do this exactly what Dennis was just talking about. When you're feeling anxious or nervous or worried or upset, check your heart rate on your watch and see if it syncs up. So if it's 140 and above, then we got some other good stuff going on.

Right?

That now you're talking about a whole, you know—

Absolutely.

Right. Spiraling experience, or you might have spiraled into that experience after being in that place for a period of time. But when you're talking about what Dennis is talking about, where there's like, oh, I feel this, but your other physiology isn't shifting and changing to that extreme, then there's a different thing that might be going on. For me as a therapist, I don't really care. I just know that it doesn't feel— I mean, I care, but meaning like, I'm still going to work on it one way or the other, especially with NET or teaching them self-tools, right? But when you're looking at raw hard data, like when NET did their study with an fMRI and parts of the brain lit up when a trauma experience was replayed back to them with their own— with the patient's own words while being in an MRI, you can see exactly where in the brain it lit up in the same specific places for every single person who had their cancer diagnosis story read back to them. In the words that they crafted that narrative, and then see that 3 to 4 sessions later after N.E.T., based on that story, those areas are not lighting up in the brain, right? That's a scientifically provable and repeatable experience that, you know, we're looking for in true healing versus just like, oh yeah, I feel better, right? It's both are good. If someone says, yeah, I feel better, that's amazing. But if we can match it with proof and data, yep, then we're having— then we have a whole different ball game.

Yeah.

And there's a thing out there called heart rate variability, and a lot of people put a lot of, a lot of faith in heart rate variability. A lot of my athletes, and, you know, we probably have 3,000 of the most elite athletes right now as clients, um, you know, we'll work on heart rate variability. We're working on heart rate variability because I want to keep them in that rhythmic dance between sympathetic and parasympathetic. I don't want them drifting over to sympathetic or don't want them drifting over to full parasympathetic. I need them to be in that rhythmic dance, right? So the very— the heart rate variability, and I've used that again for 25 years, uh, but to me it's a tool. All it is is a tool to give me rational reality. What, what is real, right? I had a, a group of physicians and, uh, we were talking about Alzheimer's, and I got fascinated with the subject of Alzheimer's, and I'm getting ready to do some very deep dive research on Alzheimer's because What I found out was, is what I didn't know. And what I didn't know is the end result of Alzheimer's, not the beginning result. So I thought that the biggest issue that we have with Alzheimer's or dementia was the cognitive side of the, the equation. And what I came to find out is that they had a very difficult time dealing with lack of sleep, High heart rate, high blood pressure. Well, let me think about that.

What does that define? Oh, I know what that defines. That defines fight or flight, right? So I said to these docs, I said, what do you do?

Well, you know, we tried medication, that didn't work. We tried this, that didn't work. We tried this, didn't work. And I said, well, have you ever lost your keys? They said, well, yeah. Did you get anxious? Where's my keys?

Where's my keys?

These people are, where's my keys, 24/7, 365. Does it not make sense that they're stuck over here in, in sympathetic dominance? Oh, I never thought about it that way. So what if we could put them— same question— what if we could put them into parasympathetic immediately? Here's what I think is going to happen. Heart rate's going to go down, blood pressure is going to go down, they'll probably fall asleep in the chair. Oh, that never happened.

Okay, well, let's try it.

Let's put a cuff on everybody. Let's put a pulse ox on everybody. And let's have them sit in a chair for 15 minutes, and I'm just going to talk to them, see what happens. Every single person's heart rate went down, every single person's blood pressure went down, and every single one of them fell asleep in a chair while being talked to. The difference was they were in parasympathetic, not sympathetic. And that parasympathetic was externally introduced to them, not internally trained for them, right? They had no choice. They were going to go there, right?

It was forced upon—

doesn't realize whether it's internal or external.

And sooner or later, medicine is going to figure that out, but they're not going to figure it out until such time as the insurance company pays for external the same amount that they pay for internal.

Absolutely. Oh, and I completely agree with you on that one, which is one of the many reasons that, well, by the time this episode will come out, my practice will be fully insurance-free. And we can get into a whole, I'm sure we can get into a couple-hour conversation on that. But I'm thinking about to December time where I treated myself to the Theragun, right? The massage gun tool, right? And I've been working from home and super stressed out and I was using, you know, like I wasn't able to go to the gym and I was doing my runs. It wasn't, I wasn't running as consistently. I wasn't, you know, I'm obviously not working out at the gym. And I'm taking care of everybody else's extra stressors, you know, down here in South Florida where it was a crap show of people not taking it seriously when they should have. And I remember, so I know they said, well, I didn't realize this until afterwards, when you use it for the first couple of times, you shouldn't be using it for longer than 3 to 4 minutes. This Theragun. And I probably used it for about 15 minutes.

And you were miserably sore the next day.

I actually wasn't. What actually I found out was— well, I mean, I was getting— I mean, I got weak, you know, I was getting— at that point, I think I started getting chiropractic adjustments again. And so I was— my nervous system was at least getting handled at some level. But what I found, I slept like I've never slept before. Throughout the last year that evening. So what I realized was, oh, this is not only handling my muscle soreness or warming up my muscles pre and post a run and, and allowing more blood flow to go there and targeting sore places that I can't reach. It actually caused me to have this stimulation externally brought into my body that actually caused me to go into a massively relaxed state.

Well, let's talk about that.

Sure.

What caused the muscle to be in that position? Stress. And what caused the stress?

External, i.e., the pandemic, right? And internal, as in not maybe doing the right stretching or getting the right body care.

Sure.

I consistently did previous to the pandemic where I was getting massages, I was doing Right.

Exactly.

I was doing that, right? All the more self-healing stuff that I was accessible to previous to—

So think about this. I mean, your audience will probably find this fascinating. Why do we go for a massage? And why do, why do we need a massage? We need a massage because the muscles feel tight and they are tight. Sometimes they feel like a, a ball, right? Right. And then what does massage do? Massage tears myofibril fiber. To get that muscle to release, right?

So, and to activate another layer of healing, which, correct, hopefully from it. And it's interesting while you're saying that, like, I have this chronic history of going for a massage feeling great, but then what I call it is I reset back to the state I was in typically no more than a half hour or an hour afterwards, which tells me that, right, all that we've been talking about physically, that physical symptoms aren't just physical symptoms. So, which is a perfect time for me to explain like my overall philosophy to healing that I've adopted from and adapted from NET, that Dr. Walker came up with the Home Run Formula, that you can't truly have healing until you have all 4 of these bases hit to get the home run. First base is emotions, and that's therapy and all the therapeutic talk therapy or psychotherapy techniques, including NET, EMDR, hypnosis, X, Y, and Z. Second base is you've been exposed to both environmental and food toxins, right? Which is still environmental, but like your laundry detergent, your pesticides, your GM, right? All that other stuff, right? And mold, X, Y, right? All those things. We got to get those out of your body because that does affect your biochemistry, which affects your mood, which affects your body's ability to use itself as well, right? And then we got your your fuel, your nutrition. A lot of things can come, including injuries, including emotional stress handling, from nutritional deficiency. So we got to figure that component out. And then the last plate, the last base, home plate, structural, right? So Body Docs specifically, right? But I have had so many clients coming in with chronic physical injuries that have been to orthopedic rehab, that have done their PT that have done their surgery and still like a year later. One of my favorite stories is that I had a client that a year or two even after orthopedic surgery and their rehab was still wearing a sling and had range of motion to bring their arm straight up only to the top of their ear. Right? Insane. Which is not, which is not shocking. It's insane and frustrating, but it's not shocking because it's not— they're one of thousands. Within 15 minutes, I would say max, I can't even remember, but I would maybe no more than 15 minutes, we found the— using NET, we went in through what we call a body entry, and we found the emotional somatic experience, reset that nervous system response to that experience so it became neutral. And immediately after, that person had full complete range of motion with no pain.

We do it every day of the week, right?

So knowing that people who are listening, those of you who are listening to this episode, when you have this chronic thing going on, whether it's a chronic emotional stressor or a chronic physical stressor. And I'm saying physical as in not just like the body mechanic, but also digestion, weight loss, diabetes. All these things are all part of the stress cascade that, right, if we're not tapping into all four of those bases, you're not going to get a home run with your health.

I would agree to that. I think there's a, another missing piece And that is that we were talking about massage, we're talking about Theragun, we're talking about all these things. You're fighting the nervous system. Sure. Your nervous system is basically sending a signal to your muscle to be in protection. That's called concentric contraction. If you were in eccentric contraction, you'd never ever go to a massage therapist because you'd never need to go to a massage therapist. Would you be able to move that if you were totally—

if you were totally in eccentric contraction, would you have the strength and conditioning to be able to fully operate the way you need to fully operate?

10 times more strength. 10 times more strength. Evidenced by the fact, if I said, Jason, I'm going to give you 300 pounds, I want you to hold it, and now I want you to curl it, there's no way on the planet you're going to curl that weight, but you're holding 300 pounds. I don't have to go any further. You're holding it because of eccentric strength. We train athletes concentric to eccentric, primarily concentric. Why? Because of the aesthetics of that activity— bigger, fuller muscle, more density— when in reality, someone that's got long sinewy muscle is a whole lot stronger than the guy that's got a bicep the size of a bowling ball.

Why?

Because eccentric strength allows you to absorb and create 10 times more force. Concentric strength is where you get hurt. Just that simple. So the point I'm trying to make is that all these disciplines— massage, chiropractic, physical therapy, occupational therapy—

They're all doing the same thing, and that is they're fighting a neurological signal.

What I do is change the neurological signal.

Example, if you've ever seen someone who's had a fractured arm and they're—

they have a cast and they're in a sling and they've been in the sling 6 to 8 weeks. Cast comes off, sling comes off, they go to physical therapy, and the poor physical therapist's job is to get that arm into an extended position.

If you've ever seen that happen, it is very, very, very uncomfortable and time-consuming. Why? Because the minute I pull down on that arm, your brain sends a signal to her, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop, stop, stop, stop. And I, I I'm gonna fight you every step of the way and it's gonna hurt like sin.

I look at it and say, that makes zero sense.

So what muscle's job is it to straighten out the arm? Tricep. Oh, so I wonder what would happen if I stimulate the tricep externally, what would happen to the arm? Well, an amazing thing happened. It straightened out the arm just exactly like it's supposed to do. With no fight, no flight, no pain, no strain. In about a minute, the arm is perfectly straight. Now you have to retrain the nervous system, which has been in a neural pattern for 6 weeks. You have to retrain the nervous system to keep that muscle activated in that position. That usually takes about 3 or 4 days.. And now instead of going through all this agony of physical therapy, you've done this in 2 or 3 days. Your arm is perfectly straight. And oh, by the way, you don't have atrophy. So now which one would you prefer? All I'm doing is changing the signal, which is telling the muscle what to do. The reason you went to a massage therapist, the reason you go to a chiropractor is your brain is telling you you need to do it. So if your brain isn't telling you you need to do it and you have an external tool eliminating that need, you're going to eliminate the need because you're working on why you have the problem, not where. And everything we do, I believe, is a neural pattern. Weight, the way we sit, the way we stand, the way we walk, any athletic activity is a neural pattern.

There is no such thing as muscle Memory.

Muscles don't have a memory.

They do two things, actually three. They lengthen by contracting, that's called eccentric contraction. They shorten by contracting, that's called concentric contraction.

And the muscle's job is to act as a shock absorber.

So if you have a tendon, ligament, bone, or joint— any listener that's got a tendon, ligament, bone, or joint problem has got a neurological miscommunication. That, I believe, is a huge missing piece.

Yeah.

And we add that to your home run, now you got a home run beyond a home run because that ball's gonna go completely outta the park.

For sure. And I think that the way that we get to tap it in, right, using NET, using this—

Absolutely.

Right. Does change that for so many people and it does make it so much simpler, but it also makes it way more efficient. Efficient, which is what we really want. We want healing efficiency. And right, so, so, so I'm coming to you, right? Let's walk me through, walk me through, uh, as, as a unique client, right? Walk— or a patient. I reach out to you. I heard about this thing from a buddy of mine who's an athlete. I'm ready to go. What happens? What's the, what's the protocol? What am I doing?

Well, the very first thing that we do is, since we're not dealing with where the problem is. You know, you can bring me x-rays and MRI. We don't need any of that. I'm only interested in why you have the problem, not where. So the first thing I have to do is I have to identify, is your brain sending a fast enough signal to your antagonist muscle to allow that muscle to act as a shock absorber?

So I would do a very simple test we call a neuroefficiency test.

And what we're testing is how quickly you're communicating. We're not testing your strength, we're not testing anything else. To you, uh, with your background, it might look like applied kinesiology, it might look like an ortho test, it might look like a PT test.

None of the above.

What I'm looking for is, will light resistance on the agonist trigger the antagonist? If it does, great. If it doesn't problematic. Now, I believe 99% of all people who go to any type of practitioner are not neurologically prepared to go to that practitioner. They will fail this test. I can go out to any organization, give this test, 99% are going to fail. And the reason I say that is 25 years of experience, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of tests So it's not just something I'm saying off the top of my head. We've got scientific validated evidence to that fact. So then the question is, why do they fail the test? I believe we become neurologically inefficient by the age of 4 years old. At the age of 4 years old, you will fail the test. At the age of 2 years old, you'll pass the test. So that told me right away that the hardwired system, the reflex system, the cross-crawl system. We start losing that communication probably around 3 years old.

Then I started looking at why.

Again, that why thing, that, that fascinating question, why. And I believe the reason that we start becoming inefficient is we mimic our environment. So we watch mom, we watch dad, we watch brother and sister walk. And we start patterning what we see around us. And the second we do that, we change the natural neurosignal because we, we're free will. We then change that pattern.

And when we do, that muscle is now not getting the proper signal to allow the muscle to absorb force. Now, if you don't believe that, take a 2-year-old.

Most of your listeners have got children, and they can remember when the kids fell down the stairs, scared the heck out of mom and dad, and did absolutely no damage. You take a 4-year-old and do the same thing, they're going to be in the hospital. You take a 2-year-old who does it on their own, they're not. Why?

Because the nervous system is so efficient that it allows the muscle, the agonist, to shorten and all other stabilizer muscles to lengthen.

That does not happen right now.

What I do then is I test to determine, are you efficient or not? If you're not, then I created a way of resetting your software.

Now, the way I reset your software is First pattern you ever learned how to do is how to crawl.

That's the first neuro thing you ever learned how to do.

Everything up to crawling was hardwired.

Crawling is the very first neural pattern.

So the left controls the right, the right controls the left. I reinstall that pattern. I then test you again, and now you're efficient.

Then What I want to do is say, okay, Jason, where's it hurt?

Well, it hurts in my hamstring or hurts in my back. Back. One-third of all people in the world have back problems, right?

So it hurts in my back. So I put an electrode on your back. I say, okay, that's where the problem ended. We need to find out where the signal's coming from that's causing that muscle to act in that manner, causing the feeling that you have in your back. So I scan your body. Now keep in mind, as a trained medical professional, you know that the only diagnostic tools we have available to us today are MRI, X-ray, ultrasound scans, images.

Guess what? They all do exactly the same thing. They tell you exactly where the problem is and the severity of the damage caused by the problem at that location.

Do not tell you why the problem happened.

There's not a doctor out there that can answer that question unless we trained them. It sounds egotistical, but that's a fact, right? So now we go and we scan the body, and Doc said, well, what are you looking for?

I'm looking for sodium potassium leakage. Wherever there's sodium potassium leakage, news flash, there's no communication going on.

There's a wall around that tissue. It's called scar tissue.

That scar tissue holds stagnant blood and stagnant cell communication within a wall. So is it any wonder that that muscle has no idea what to do? Because guess what? It communicates through that same channel, right? So I disrupt that and I find out where that signal is. Now every signal has a beginning and an end. So I find the beginning of the signal, then I scan the body and find the end of the signal. And then I have you do a movement that every single time you do it brings on pain. And what I'm doing is demonstrating to your cognitive brain, your conscious brain, not your subconscious, your conscious brain, oh my God, I can do that without pain. And now my brain says, oh, okay, I can do that. Now here's the amazing thing. It takes 3 repetitions before the brain picks up on the fact that you're not going to die doing this movement and you don't have pain. And now all of a sudden you don't have pain. And then guess what happens? I raise the intensity, I change the parameters of the test, and guess what happens? You go right back to your old pattern. And the first 3 repetitions, you don't have pain, but you have fear that you're going to have pain. And by the 4th repetition, your brain says, ah, no pain. And I keep doing that until I elevate your threshold to where there's no stressor known to man that's going to create pain. It takes 20 sessions to create a brand new neuroplasticity. That is my therapy.

And by the way, it's patented and there's no other physical therapy— physical therapy is not patented, occupational therapy is not patented, ATC is not patented.

Neurotherapy is patented because it changes the neural pattern that you're stuck in. So that is what you get.

So do people have to travel out to you in order to make this happen, or is this able to be available to them at home?

100% done remotely.

I create—

because I knew, keep in mind, like I said, we had 500,000 patients. They're not going to be traveling all over the world to come to see us.

Um, so I patented—

not patented, I created a new delivery system called, guess what, tele-rehabilitation, not telemedicine, before telemedicine was even a word. Yeah.

So I'd send them a $20,000 piece of medical equipment no cost. I'd work with them—

not me personally, but my staff would work with them 1 hour, no cost.

At the end of that hour, they knew beyond a shadow of a doubt one of two things: we could help them or we couldn't. If we could, then we did 20 sessions. They bought the program, they did a session a day, 1 hour a day with our therapist, and then what? Then they sleep with the technology and they're getting an additional 8 hours of parasympathetic therapy while sleeping. So they're getting 270 hours of therapy in a 30-day span of time, creating a brand new neuroplasticity and a brand new neural pattern.

95% of the people that we've treated worldwide had better success than anything they've ever experienced and were all asymptomatic when they're done.

And are you finding that things that they didn't even realize were primary— so they're coming to you for a primary concern and they probably have been so overwhelmed by trying to get that solved that other concerns that they know were nagging them were not even a third, fourth, or fifth priority. They're like, I'll get to that whenever, if I ever deal with this first. Are you finding that there is a trickle-down effect of those?

100%. Yeah, 100%. So day one, you had pain of— let's say you're CRPS, and day one you have pain of 10. Day two, you have pain of 8. Day three, you have pain of 6. Day 4, you have pain of 4. Day 5, you have pain of 1.

Then an amazing thing happened.

You know, I really feel good in my back, but my shoulder is killing me.

We explain that it's what's yelling the loudest that gets your attention. So if you don't believe that, if you've got a headache— and any of your listeners have a headache— and they hit their hand with a hammer, they don't have a headache anymore.

They got a headache. It's because that's yelling the loudest, right? So we systematically get rid of all of those issues. Same way.

Incredible. How does this get paid for? Because that's probably a question. The number one question that probably people as they're listening to this, this sounds amazing. How do I pay for this? What's the payment like? What is this? What is this going to cost me? Is this—

well, the first thing we want to do—

mortgage my house.

No, no, no, no. We, we have been for 20 years. I must admit, people say, well, why haven't we heard of you? Because you couldn't afford us.

I mean, it's just that simple.

You couldn't afford it. We are now going into the masses, not the classes. I've designed two brand new portable pieces of equipment, uh, that will— that anyone can afford. And the therapy— we don't want to do therapy on anybody that we don't think we can help and they don't think we can help.

So we still offer the same thing.

So every one of your listeners listening to this who would like to have therapy, we'll give them their first session free. I don't care where they're at in the United States. We'll send them a $20,000 piece of equipment. We'll spend an hour with them. At the end of that hour, they're going to know we can help them or not. If we can, they go into a program. It's going to run them $100 a month.

2,700 hours of therapy for $100 a month.

That's as simple as it gets, right?

If you go to a professional, you're going to pay more than $100 a month, trust me. So we want to get that message out, and we want people to help other people. Uh, when you see what this does for you, we want you to tell everybody underneath the sun what it did for you so we can reach out and help. Now, we've helped 500,000 people in 20 years. I want to help 500,000 people a month, then a week, then a day. The way to do that is allow the technology to get out to the masses not just the classes.

10 years ago, if we're doing therapy on you, it's going to cost you $50,000. It's that simple.

And we stayed with you for a year.

You had the equipment. We worked with you every day of the week. We've got it down to a plan now where you can have this equipment for the rest of your life for peanuts compared to what it used to be. But we want to help everybody, and I know that sounds like altruistic. Yeah, the bottom line is I know we can do it based on the historical data, right? Everything is historical data. Ours is just a little bit different than the normal allopathic historical data.

Absolutely. And insurance, how does that play out for anybody?

If it's done in one of our providers' offices, insurance will cover it 100%.

Excluding your copay, coinsurance. Uh, most of our providers right now still do remote, and they're going to get paid the same way as if you're walking in the office due to COVID. And the carriers have figured out that that's a much more efficient business model than having somebody sit in your office for 45 minutes to an hour.

Uh, so insurance does cover it if it's done at a provider's office.

If we do it, uh, outside of a provider's office, uh, then we'll finance it to where, like I said, it's $100 a month.

And what type of providers are providing that in-office? So what would have to be the background of that professional in order to do that?

Uh, any type of provider, any type of medical license can. As a matter of fact, it's one of the ways that another spoke— we call that the commercial spoke we go to a doc and we say, hey, look, we want to contract with you to be your therapist. We'll supply you $200,000 worth of equipment, no cost. We'll supply a therapist at no cost. You supply the patient. We'll do all the treatment. You're going to bill it under your NPI and tax ID number. You're going to get paid. And here's the amazing thing: the average doctor— I don't care what their specialty is did not know they could bill physical therapy codes under their tax ID number and NPI number and get paid by a carrier. That's why they sent all their patients to physical therapy. And when I found that out, I said, oh, okay, this could be another way that I can increase the mass because I can now bring the doctor some additional revenue But more importantly, I'm not interested in the doctor. I'm interested in the patient. It gets me access to that patient. And again, masses, not classes.

And for those of us who are in the mental health medical— yes, things— how would that work? So let's say I wanted to bring this into my practice. How would that happen? How would that work? And what would that—

well, there's a couple of ways we could do it with you because you've done a lot of remote So obviously this fits perfectly into remote. If you have a patient that, uh, it just needs to stay in parasympathetic, that's a piece of cake. I mean, that, that's a little tiny device about the size of an iPhone, and they're— I supply it to them at absolutely no cost while you're treating them, and at the end of the treatment they have a choice: send it back or buy it. If you're doing it in-house then you would have one of them in your practice. Gonna cost you a— just a massive amount of money, probably $35, $40 a month. And then you would apply this prior to a session to keep them in parasympathetic while they're in the session, making your job a little bit easier. And then we would supply it to them to use at home to keep them in parasympathetic to solidify what you just did in session. So you and I can discuss all of that, but it fits perfectly into that. Uh, which brings me to an interesting question. Have you ever seen Generation Rx?

No, I haven't.

Go into— you're gonna, you're gonna love this— go into Prime and search Generation Rx. It's all about psychotropic drugs, and how psychotropic drugs came into the practice of medicine for mental illness. It will frighten you beyond belief.

So this is a documentary that everybody should check out.

Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

Oh, the amount of medication. I mean, my practice, it's funny, pre-pandemic, when I had my office for that last office I was in, I don't know, 5 years, let's just say, literally behind my wall of my office, within the office, right, in my room in the office, behind that wall was a psychiatrist on the other side, literally in the next suite for me. And the— all the years that I was there, there was zero referrals to her or to any other psychiatrist based on my philosophy that these things can be solved both with the body doc orientation stuff.

Absolutely.

And with using the right nutrition. I'm a huge fan and proponent of functional medicine, which is very much similar to the why behind all of everything from a systemic perspective. Why is that happening? Why is your blood sugar high? Why is— we're not going to treat your cholesterol, we're going to treat why your cholesterol is high, right? Um, so, so that philosophy very much stands with my practice as an integrative mind body therapy and wellness practice. And, and looking at, like, I'm seeing all these kids, and I talked to a client, a potential client, a few weeks ago, and they're like, yeah, my kid's having this thing and I want to go maybe send them to a psychiatrist and they're 5 years old. And I'm like, listen, if you do, I won't take you on as a client, right? But I'm going to give you some resources because it's not too late yet, and it would cause me incredible pain to see your kid up being on medication for the rest of their life. And It's not gonna— it's throwing darts at a wall. And, um, it's not ready to talk about scientifically proven versus not scientifically proven. I mean, it's real. You're, you know, a lot of times you are playing roulette with psychiatric medications when it's extreme life-threatening in-the-moment cases. It's situ— it's different than, than where we're trying to deal with something like this. But a lot of people, A, they don't have the information or the education about these things. Two, we have obviously, right, the medical world that is pumping hundreds of millions of dollars of marketing and advertising, and you have that dominant discourse about these things, that alternative medicine is alternative, it's not integrative, right? And that's why, you know, I'm an integrative medicine practitioner, not an alternative medicine practitioner, because I integrate best of both worlds. And that was it. I'm like, here's some functional medicine practitioners you need to see with your child. My guess is, is based on what you're telling me, it's one of two things. It's gonna be environmental or it's gonna be food. It's gonna be—

Absolutely.

Biochemistry, all those things. So let's start there. Once you get that done, then reach back out to me because otherwise I'm gonna tell you the same thing and charge you my cash rate for telling you what I'm gonna tell you now. Get this done. Maybe that will solve 100% of the issues and you don't need a therapist.

Right.

Because I'm starting to see that ADD, especially for children, is a subset. Right. It's not— I don't think ADD is its own diagnosis. I think it's a subset of anxiety. And then of course, we can get to what is anxiety and why is that part, right, going back to the loop that we start with.

Correct.

But right, but I think that when we're talking about these things that, that can be done so easily at home.

Yeah, we've been put— we've been— we're doing a study now on autism. We've done a study, an outcome study. We can take an autistic child and put this technology on them and they will instantly, instantly change behavior. Reason for that, sympathetic.

Yeah.

Parasympathetic.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, that is the key.

That is the key. Right, right. And figuring out toxicity levels, which I just did a great seminar by Great Plains Laboratories and we were talking about like mold toxicity and oxalate.

Oh, no question.

Other stuff. And, right, that's all diet and nutrition. And it's interesting, like, so, right, we have this— and again, a whole nother conversation, a whole nother topic, possibly for a different episode, right? You have the, right, the whole vaccine debate, right? And it's really interesting. And so I've realized— this is my— guys, I'm putting this out there as my caveat. So I'm not, you know, I'm not an expert on anything. This is just my observation right now. When we're talking about what your nervous system and your body can handle as a toxic load. That it's not— and why we're having these side effects right now with some of the vaccines, it's not necessarily the vaccine, it's the body's and person's ability to handle a specific toxic load.

Absolutely. Metabolic capacity.

Right.

And that's what— and then of course the same thing with COVID Why some people are okay, some— well, we know vitamin D and we know zinc and acetylcysteine and all these other things, SPM, mediators that are precursors to protecting the body from what's going on with COVID and why some people are having minimal things and some people are great and why they're recommending that you should have your vitamin D as close to above 40 as possible. The average person's vitamin D that I'm finding as I'm looking at people's labs are between 17 and 30. And they found with research that 40 and above have a 50% higher comorbidity with COVID The average doctor will look at your lab and say, "Oh, you're fine at 23." Even if you live in Miami, oh, you'll get it from the sun, right? Which is BS. It's not happening because your body's not assimilating.

Well, they're not trained. Right.

And here's the other thing. When you look at it from functional medicine numbers, 60 to 80 is where they want you to be, to be optimal. Now, there's a host of other stuff because it's also a hormone, vitamin D. It's not just a—

Right.

Right. It's a— but you're talking about men who have erectile issues, chronic research. I mean, consistent research about chronic erectile issues and being helped with vitamin D. And maybe no joke that it's vitamin D for, for that body part, right? But it's so right. It's, it's when we're looking at what can be solved versus, like you said, these other things aren't patented. Psychiatry isn't patented. The drugs are because that's how they make money off of it. And I'm not, again, being clear, I'm not anti-psychiatry. I want people to do what they need to do. Of course, do it. But also know that this is the reason why my podcast exists, from the worlds of psychology and spirituality and alternative medicine and entrepreneurship, that there's so many things out there that will help us reach our potential, such as what Dennis is sharing with us today, that's out there, and we just have to find the right tools.

And we're trying to make it as simple as possible. All they have to do is go to our website, arpwave.com, Fill out a free form, we'll send them a unit.

Awesome. So guys, you guys heard that. So anybody who's struggling with anything that we talked about today, or if you're curious if there's something else that Dennis's company's technology can solve, reach out, hit up the website, get in touch with you. If you want more information about, uh, all the other things that we're doing here through my practice with NeuroEmotional Technique and my, my feelings, uh, as I told the Dennis in our pre-interview. I'm gonna be out in Arizona in September, so we'll probably have to make time to, to get a cup of coffee and sit down.

We'll definitely, uh, so we can incorporate this into my practice in the future. And, and absolutely, right?

I'm fascinated by this. So Dennis, again, thank you so much for, for one, thank you.

And do me a favor and, uh, send me your, uh, contact information or I'll get— I can get it from Goran and then we can start communicating via email. Yeah, I'd love to work with you.

Absolutely. So, so for everybody out there, again, check out, check out his website. Uh, for if you've had any value out of this episode, or if you know someone who's struggling with anything that we've been talking about today, send this episode to them, forward it on to them. Um, and as always, like, please leave us a starred and written review on iTunes specifically. Um, it's not just for my own positive feedback. I mean, it's great. Like, I, you know, I very much enjoy doing this and I'm doing this out of a passion of, of love and wanting to connect with people that are like-minded, but it also helps other people find these episodes.

Exactly.

That's the easiest way is like you see as the numbers go up and as the reviews go up, other— it will be cultivated in the suggested lists of podcasts to listen to. So those of you out there, please, please take 30 seconds, go on iTunes, and you don't even need to have an Apple account to do it. So again, Denis, thank you so much.

Thank you, Jason Wasser. Look forward to working with you.