You Winning Life Podcast Ep. 147- How To Add Rocket Fuel To Your Life with Mike "C-Roc" Ciorroco

Hey everybody, and welcome back to the You Winning Life podcast. I'm really excited about today's guest. We've been trying to get this scheduled for a while, and Mike Ciroc Cirocca is the co-founder of the innovative tech platform Blueprinted, which is the powerhouse behind the What Are You Made Of podcast, and the bestselling author of Rocket Fuel. How to Convert Setbacks and Become Unstoppable. He is a performance coach, author, dynamic public speaker, tech visionary, and a thought leader. He's been listed on Yahoo Finance as one of the top business leaders to follow in 2020 and is on a mission to build unstoppable people. Mike, thanks so much for hanging out with us today.

What's up, Jason? Thanks for having me. Uh, appreciate it. Uh, I always start every interview I go on with gratitude because It means the world to me to be able to do this and for people to have me and also to your audience. Thank you for showing up.

It means the world, man. Well, I'm incredibly honored to have you. And, you know, we were talking pre-show about the people that have overlapped in our lives and how awesome these people are. And I think, you know, with our time being limited today, I want to talk about connection. And as a licensed therapist and working with entrepreneurs and knowing what's going on in the world, especially over the last 2 years, this idea of we're getting splintered more and more and more, and we're losing out on opportunities to connect with people that we think might be different from us, but at the end of the day really aren't so different. And I know that's something that's important for you is connections and networking. And I don't mean networking as in like, oh, let's just do a deal, but like really actual deep, authentic connection. So walk, walk us through because You and I were talking about another person who was on my podcast, Jared Yellen, and now the 10X Incubator that's been created in conjunction with the 10X Community and Grant Cardone. So talk to me about the importance of connection for you in your life, creating that community through connections and what can happen through partnerships and building that dynamic.

Well, first of all, I've come to the realization over the last quite a few years that you can't do anything by yourself. Great. I know that I need people. I need the connection with people, but also to have a future, you need people to be in alignment with each other on a certain mission together. And so too many times, Jason, in my life, I chased production in business. I was in the real estate mortgage space. And too many times I chased production and I didn't pay attention to whether they were aligned with my core values, my mission, the future that I could see. And when you do that, you're setting yourself up for disaster. It may go well at first, But it causes so much stress and anxiety and problems, even though you may be producing a little bit more than you would otherwise. Um, and at the end of the day, I just noticed that people have everything you need if they're in the right alignment with you and your mission.

Yeah, love it. Because this is what last session I was talking about with one of my clients, is like alignment of values. And, and even he and I may have voted differently, but we, we talked about even in the things we disagree on, we probably have so many facts within that space that we do agree on. And because we're able to create that space together, especially in a therapeutic arrangement disagreement, we get to go there, we get to talk about it. We don't become combatants. We become, how do we uplift? Well, my job is to uplift them, but how do we get to those places of agreement so I can be a resource to them? The challenging thing is this word alignment. A lot of these words are getting thrown around way too simply. So when you're talking about the word alignment, what does that mean for you? And how do you go out and then find those people?

So first of all, um, I, I don't wanna get too political, Because no matter what side you're on, it doesn't really matter. There's a division caused by, by powers to be, which I believe is the government or even beyond the government. And the reason this is important to understand is that they need division for you to need them. Okay? They need chaos, confusion, and you can— your level of success is hampered by the amount of chaos and confusion that there is present. So first of all, that's important to understand. So when you have division, generally it's because two people or two sides or multiple sides don't have an agreement on something, right? And then they get out of reality with each other. So they— like, if you're looking at someone, the guy you were talking about for example, and the stuff you disagree on, you just sometimes probably ask yourself like, how the heck does he see it that way? Or she'd see it that way? Like, I can't even— I can't even imagine what the heck they're looking at. That's a sense of being out of reality with each other or out of agreement, right? So, um, that's, that's what I see with it, is that in alignment you need to have a few things. You need to have an agreement with each other somehow, some way. How do you get that? Well, you get that through communication. You communicate and you over-communicate, and you're willing to have discussions, keeping the emotions out of it, with each other to, to see what each other view as reality and agree upon. And then you find your agreements. You start off with one and then you work to multiple. But most people aren't patient enough to do that. Most people just get too pissed off. Their emotions get in the way and then they get out of communication, which then keeps them out of agreement or furthers them from agreement. And then they don't like each other.

Right. And we're quickly to do that right now. It's like the dismissal of someone else who doesn't see things the way I do.

Yeah. I think that if we teach people to understand this concept of communication causes all problems and is also the solution to all problems, I mean, bottom line, the more you communicate, the more you'll like someone that you're communicating with. If you, even if you push through the difficult times and you don't agree with them, you start to feel your emotions boil up a little bit, they get fired up. If you stay, if you stay calm and you push through that and you continue to communicate your liking of that person will go up. It's impossible not to as long as you communicate further, and then you will have some agreements. And that's what it all stems from. It's very simple.

I think that's one of the beautiful things that I'm finding more and more with the people I am connecting to, that we may have differences of a bit, right? It's all opinion, right? Everybody— what we're claiming is fact is really just an opinion. And the people who I'm— I've probably some of my closest friends in my life have very different approaches and very different opinions and very different applications of how they're living their life through this timeframe. And that's okay. And, and, and, and, right, vice versa. So it's so interesting to see what we are capable of co-creating together. And I think that's when going back into the alignment is the more alignment, the more conversation, the more co-creation. And like you said, I can't do it alone.

Yeah, and at the end of the day, everybody's really default position is to go to survival, right? And you know, one of my coaches told me the other day, he said it very eloquently, he said, we've— we're born here to have it all, but as we go and live, we are conditioned to have just enough. And then everybody starts having that conditioning put upon them, and then they feel like everybody else is a threat to them if they don't think the same way as them. Or they have success or, you know, somebody else has success and that's the problem. People default back to that, just enough, just survive again and, you know, when you have that situation and it continues and then it's also exasperated or, you know, gasoline's thrown on it by certain powers then and people give into it, then you have what we have. So, you know.

What story taught you that? Like what experiences did you go through in your life as you were navigating, coming from where you came from, and, uh, right, I heard some of your stories on your podcast, but for those who haven't heard anything about you and haven't yet listened to your podcast, um, What Are You Made Of, what, what are some of the things that, like, when you had this aha moment of realizing those type of things, what, what was going on around then?

Well, I came from a broken home. I don't remember my parents together. A lot of brokenness, a lot of alcohol, drug addicts, mental conditions, mental issues. Suicide, always drama and conflict. And I noticed one thing in this, and I was a very aware kid for some reason. I don't know where or why that happened, but I always noticed that people were telling themselves a story and they would tell other people a story of why they were acting the way they were doing or why they had the problems they had. And then they would do their darndest to prove themselves right with that story, right? That's— everybody that's studied the mind and subconscious mind and everything, they understand that. Like You try to make yourself right. And that's more important than being successful because that leads to this just getting by or surviving. So as a kid, I noticed that, but I would never buy their stories. I would always call them on their BS. And it took a lot of courage for me to do that because they would get resentful. They, you know, they, oh, don't start that crap again. But that's them fighting against it, right? So I had to be willing to do it anyway. Because if they were going to be like the way they were being, I didn't want them in my life anyway. And again, I don't know where this came from. I'm very fortunate to have had this mindset at a young age. I'm talking 8, 9, 10 years old, and I would call them on their bullcrap, like consistently. But then I also told myself, and I think somebody told me, I don't remember who it was. I remember somebody telling me one time, look, if you're going to be doing that and saying that, you need to tell yourself the story why you're going to be successful. And that you are a role model. People are watching you. And so that's when it came to me. Now, have I always been like perfect and on top of it? No. When I went to college, I hadn't drank until I went to college. That was the first time I had alcohol. And when I played football in college, it was a new world. It was like Disney World. I saw quantity and quality of women that I never saw before coming from a small town, parties, and I thought that was the way to go. You know, I just, I lost my focus. And then I would start seeing myself falling into those same traps of telling the story why I was being like this. Oh, I didn't ever party before in high school. It's okay to do a little partying now. Oh, you know, we could try this joint and, and see how it goes. And no, I'm not going to get hooked on drugs. And then before you know it, I'm living a life of where's the next party? That's the, the thing. Like, where are the women? Where are the parties? Where this? Where's that? And, and consistently on to action. And I would share the story to myself to justify it. Well, at some point I realized, obviously with the feelings that I was getting and the miserableness and the darkness that I was living in, that that was the cause of it. And I saw this all before. I had to experience it personally, I guess, to get right with it. So that's where the click was. And then from that point on, especially over the last 3 to 4 years, I really dove deep into really understanding the mind and understanding human behavior. And why things were happening the way they were. And I just didn't want to sit back and accept it.

Yeah, well, I think that's, that's the challenge where I see this all the time and how I position myself in my practice is it's right on my webpage now. And it actually came from Patrick— Dr. Patrick Gentempo's Your Stand Is Your Brand. And I put out there, if you're calling around from therapist to therapist looking for the most affordable one, I'm not it. But if you're looking for the ability to make a change, if you're looking for people who are looking at mind-body integrative wellness, if you're looking for these things and you're ready to do the work and be held accountable, then give me a call. It is the ability to get out of our story, to no longer say what I've been telling myself is getting me the outcome that I want. In fact, it's getting me the outcome that I don't want, but I have to stop telling that story and I'm ready to start doing that. And that's bravery. Yeah, the deepest level, right? So, so really what I'm, you know, what I'm asking people to do is how do you be— how do we step into our bravery to get out of that comfort zone knowing that it's no longer serving us? And what do we have to risk giving up that we believe that we're holding on to that keeps us stable but actually is leading to instability in our life?

Well, I think the problem, Jason, is a lot of people aren't clear on what they want. And so when you're not clear on what you want and you just have blurry vision or blurry or just no vision whatsoever, It's very difficult to shoot for targets and goals.

Yeah. So what's too micro on that? In other words, when people say the riches are in the niches, which is true, but how deep is too deep where you're so stuck in the muck and the mire that you don't see other possibilities? And then how much is too expansive and too like, "Well, I want to have $1 million," right? Too generic. So what have you found is kind of like for you that has worked for you to balance out the micro and the macro? Of solving that for yourself?

Yeah, I mean, I think that it comes down to, you know, once you get past controlling the things that control people, which is, you know, ego, fear, judgment, then you— then you're left with, what's my mission? And then your mission runs you, your calling runs you, right? And that— that— with that being said, and I'm very well coached on this stuff, by the way, with some very, very successful people that have coached successful people. And I've watched them and the results they've gotten. I'm like, okay, yeah, that does work. But here's the thing. So when you have a situation where you have a mission and you get clear on the vision of ideal life that you want, so thinking about all the areas of your life and how would you want those, and you take the time and intention to do it. Like most people don't have the patience to do it. They don't sit down and do it because they don't believe that it's going to make a difference, right? But when you do this and you get clear as far as, okay, what kind of Let's say you're not married. What kind of person am I looking for? Right? Again, you're writing a clear vision down to that person, but it's not going to be perfect when you find them. You know, there's always going to be something. Like they talk about in the Bible, you know, I'm a Christian. I study the Bible. I study many religions, but I grew up a Christian and you're never going to get perfection, but you're striving for perfection. So what you're doing when you set up a micro, what you would call a micro, very clear picture, is you're striving for perfection. You're not saying that you're necessarily going to get there, but you're going to go— if the clearer it is and the more micro it is, the closer you are going to get to it and the further you're going to get along. So to me, a clear picture is important, and then that gives you binary decisions to make throughout your life. Does that thought I just had go towards that? Does that thought I just had build towards that? Is the word I just said to my wife building our relationship or tearing it down? The kind of relationship we want to have. Did that action I just took, I don't know.

Well, that goes back to the alignment. Is that in alignment? Is that action I just took?

Binary decisions. Right.

The partner, the business partner, the business decision, is that in alignment to get me to that outcome? My listeners and people who work with me know that I am fervorous about values-based decision-making. To be very clear, I can help you solve a problem, only once I know your core values, because then everything is willy-nilly if you don't know what you're making decisions from. And I help them clean that up in every major category of their life. I call it the Five Fingers, Five Categories, you know, paradigm. It's like, what are the— if I were to follow you around with a documentary camera all day, and you're saying, but Jason, I want this in my life, but everything else is happening before you even get there, then you're not living in alignment, going back to that, right? So I say like, what's your Five Fingers, Five Priorities? These— and the— and if I'm going to see you doing those things, every single day? And then what are the values that you're making the decisions on? In each of those categories, it could be the same, or each one can get its own unique, you know, identifiers. But like you said, that binary yes and no, is this in alignment? And that's what I— where I say, you know, where I'm— where I use the word alignment, that you are being consistently committed, wash and repeat, banging that drum over and over again.

Yeah, yeah. Well, otherwise you get chaos and confusion. Yeah! And that's what most people live in, complicated chaos, confusion, and there's no stableness, right? So for me, binary decisions and you know, I have core values personally and on our businesses have them. And personally, I have one that's an acronym VITALS and I live by these, man. I mean, V is Vibes Matter, Emotions are Contagious. So you pay attention to that. I is imagine. No lids, endless potential. T is take 100% responsibility. A is all setbacks are rocket fuel. That's a tribute to my book over here. And L stands for leadership starts with me. No matter who you are in the title, position, how far along you are, young you are, old you are, it doesn't matter. Leadership starts with me. And finally, S, success is not an op— it's non-negotiable. Like success has to be —your duty and your obligation.

Yeah.

And that's— I operate off these and then anybody that's in my environment has to align with those. If they don't align with those values, I don't spend time with them, including family. You know? So these are things that, you know, I've been doing over the years that have led me to success and have attracted the people in my life that I need and want to be successful. All the ones that I used to allow in back in the day that I didn't have any core values set, where I did and I just wasn't, you know, non-negotiable with them, caused me problems in my life, right? It's very simple when you figure it out, but when you're, when you're in it, it is very, very hard because it's confusion, chaos. It's hard to see.

Well, if for anybody listening, and of what you just heard is pretty much what a therapy session like me with me is like, and this is what, what we, we constantly— I'm drilling into my clients is, is that like that chaos is caused from these lack of clarities. And whether it's family, whether it's dating, whether it's business, it's all the time. With one of my couples last night, and they're having chaos with their boss in an environment, and like, you're— maybe you're not supposed to solve it with that person. You're supposed to decide what allowed you to take that job in the first place, knowing that there was going to be chaos.

Responsibility, right? Well, and chaos and confusion aren't natural, right? Like, they're caused and created by human beings. Like, you look at the world, I mean, the, the weather works in a cycle. It works to nature's favor for the most part. When there's a fire, a lot of times it's not caused by man, it's burning something that needs to be burnt. Yeah, you know, rain helps. Like, everything is a— is in a cycle. And then you add man with, uh, their free will and abilities to, to screw things up, and, and then you have chaos and confusion. Right. So taking ownership and responsibility of that, like you just said, that one client that you had, or patient, I mean, that's phenomenal, right?

And that's the radical accountability of everything that I think that all of us are trying to do. And that's why I love being a therapist in the entrepreneurial space, because I think that is the best way in order for us to get the best out of us. And these are the four pillars of my podcast: psychology, spirituality, integrative medicine, and alternative medicine, and entrepreneurship. I think like we need to master these 4 areas in order to live the most meaningful, successful life. And, and that really does give us— right, and referencing your book, the, you know, Rocket Fuel, which, you know, I want to talk about for a few minutes. Um, what is the rocket fuel? What is those— what is those things that you feel will give people that most outstanding successful life?

Well, so in your— there's 2 phases, and, you know, I'd love to hit spirituality real quick too before— after we do this, because I'd love to hear your take on that. About that. But two phases, when you're just getting started and trying to figure things out, there's a lot of chaos and confusion. It's imperative that you take the setbacks, the letdowns, the discouragement, the chaos and confusion and store it in your tank instead of your trunk where most people keep it. And it weighs you down, slows you down. Tank allows you to convert, convert into rocket fuel. If you can do this and you can take everything that would be stopping you, any obstacles, any of that, and convert it into fuel, whether it's a training session or motivation or inspiration, you will become unstoppable. Now, there is a line of demarcation at some point where you cross into a more refined engine yourself and you no longer— because the chaos and confusion starts to disappear and you can no longer use that toxic fuel anymore. You need to when you need to, right? And then when that happens, you get this clear vision and a belief that the lid— the belief lid is blown off and you can really picture sharper, bigger, clearer targets and goals. And now those things become your rocket fuel. And so that's a transformation that I've been over in the last year or so. I really noticed that my engine has been into that phase now where I can't use that old stuff anymore. The book doesn't cover the second phase. I wasn't there yet when I finished publishing, you know, writing the book. But it's fine. It's a journey that, you know, we all go on these journeys and it's very interesting how I learn new things and then apply it in my life and then also look back and see why was I successful with that. Oh, this is why. Why did I fail in the past? Oh, this is why. And then it takes you into the future where you can learn from it and, uh, you know, handle things the right way.

Yeah, I see it the way I describe it in my circumstances for me and also with my clients is that they're coming to solve a problem, you know, that I call the mountain, and they don't realize that what's really A, needing to be solved, or B, what really is the bigger purpose and potential is the mountain behind the mountain. But they made this first mountain so big in their mind and, and so catastrophized that they spend most of their life working towards that, where they don't even realize that if they gave themselves a reprieve for a moment, they started asking different questions, they started looking through a different narrative, a different lens, they'll realize that that bigger mountain behind it is really what they need to be working on. And that first thing will be dismissed or minimized or would be solved by way on working on that bigger thing, which is really the 10X, right? That 10X theory.

Not only that, but when you get to that top of that first mountain, you need to understand you may have to come down, have a setback, have some kind of difficulty to get back down to this other mountain and go back up again. Right? So, and the other thing is, is that people need to be focused on future. When you're focused on the future, you're worried, you're more concerned with, okay, the big picture that you set for yourself. The everyday problems, the things that are happening right now, they don't really mean anything. You just have to get through them, learn from them, convert them, right? But what happens is people take their attention from the future, they redirect it to the present after they fail. And in that present time, if they don't redirect and write their goals down and get clear on their future again, they're in this present time dealing with problems and then they're going to fail again. And then what happens? Then they're looking at the past. And that all leads to not a place that anybody wants to go. Very dark place. Yeah. So yeah, I'm with you on that, man. I love that analogy. And definitely in alignment. Yeah.

So I know you wanted to touch for the last few minutes on spirituality. So you said you had a question from—

Yeah. So how do you handle with your clients spirituality with like different religions and what have you? You know, how do you approach that? I didn't mean to turn this around. No, it's awesome. Right?

Because I love having these conversations with my clients. And I asked a couple this morning. And I— and we were breaking life into different domains. And I said, you know, I said, I want to make sure that we're also touching on these categories and topics. And according to you, client, according to you, person, what does this word first mean to you? What's the relevancy to that in your life? And how does that play out? What's been serving you? And what hasn't been serving you? What would you like to minimize? And what would you like to bring more on? In any category. So even when it comes to the world of spirituality, and a lot— and I'm, you know, I'm Jewish, and I practice spiritually, traditionally. But like you, like you, I also learned from all different backgrounds and all different spiritualities and all different paths, and use it as new lenses to kind of interpret and add and enhance to. I wanted to always be, you know, religion and spirituality don't always go hand in hand. And it'd be great if it did. And, you know, however we want to access that, but I know it doesn't. I just want it to be for my clients, is this a tool that you can leverage and use in a way that supports you to the goals that you want? No matter the topic, right? It could be food, right? How is this food supporting you, helping you? What do you need to let go of? What do you need to— what do you need to not eat? And what do you need to add on? Um, but when it comes to spirituality, right, it really is the, the core from my perspective and my understanding and my experience. For me, spirituality is the most authentic version of myself, being aligned with my core values, being aligned with my purpose, being aligned with my mission. And yes, if it's aligned with, you know, a God-centered— the version of my version of God-centered paradigm, then, then great. And for someone else, it's not in that paradigm, that's great, too. I'm just concerned in the positive way for what are all of the different ways, not one way, what are all the different ways you can be the healthiest version of yourself? What are all the ways you can reach your potential? What are all the ways you can be purposeful? What are all the ways life can be meaningful to you even in the most mundane circumstances? And if spiritual outlets are part of that, then what are all the ways that can serve you? What are all the ways you haven't found yet? What are all the ways— what are you doing to, to explore it? And whether it's putting on a pair of Lululemon pants and going to do yoga, or buying a Peloton, or going to the gym, or meditating, or going to an ashram and going to a retreat, whatever.

Yeah, listen, well, well, the biggest thing I have in religion is that in spirituality is, is that it seems like it's an either-or most of the time. And I think that stems from, uh, scarcity and thinking that, you know, if you're not here, you may not participate here and contribute here and financially give here and when. I think we should be encouraged to reach out and study other things. And if something works and you get a combination of things that are real for you, right? It's your reality and you get a combination and you can go full force with it. I think that's the best route that I'm taking because, you know, like I said, I grew up as a Christian. I didn't grow up in a Jewish household. I didn't grow up in a Muslim household. But I decided like, let me find out what else is out there that I want to read. One of the study, um, and you know, look, I, I— one of the things I started reading was L. Ron Hubbard books. And I know Scientology, this got this stuff out there sometimes with it and stuff, but I got to tell you, only from experience, just reading the books and taking some of the courses, it's made me a better Christian. I went back and read the Bible again. I've read it several times front to back, but I went back and studied the Bible, and I understand the Bible now. Like, I, I, I look at it a totally different way than I ever have before.. And so, to me, it's made me a better Christian to investigate other religions, study other religions. And yeah, so I just thought that was cool that I wanted to touch on that with you.

But I think at the basis of it all goes back to curiosity and connection, that we can see value, right? A lot of us patriarchally, or, or, you know, each one of our organic religions might say, we're right, you're wrong, right? So I think that's a key thing. But tying everything up, I think really, at the end of the day, everything that I want people people to take away from is how do you connect more? What— I want us to make more excuses to find a reason to connect than to make an excuse to find a reason not to connect. Love it, man. So I know we have to wrap up, but I really want to thank you again for spending time with us. And, and everybody out there, check out his— check out Mike's, uh, C-Rock's book, uh, Rocket Fuel, and check out his podcast, What Are You Made Of? And you can go on his website as well, easily found.

Yeah, Jason, I gotta tell you, man, great interview. But also the voice is just so soothing and calm. Like, I, I'm on mine like firing and moving around. Like, dude, you just like make everything okay. I love it. So thanks for having me. Check out Blueprinted and Tipperossi, our two new tech products. You can catch me on LinkedIn and Instagram and Clubhouse. Awesome.