You Winning Life podcast Ep. 172- Shirin Etessam on the Quest for Genuine Selfhood

All right, everybody, welcome back. So usually, usually, usually before we get the show started, you're going to hear a nice little introduction about our guests. And I've kind of gotten away from that the last couple episodes because number one, you read that in the, in the show topic as it comes up in your, your browser when you're, when you're about to hit play on the show. So I don't want to be redundant and everything. And more than that, I think that also starts— I'm feeling that it takes away from our guests such as Shirin to be able to be sharing their side of the story without us already having a bias from the info that we hear in my intro. And I feel it takes away and does a disservice sometimes. So first of all, Shirin, welcome to hanging out with us today.

I so appreciate you pronouncing my name correctly.

That's part of our cultural shared similarities of having multiple friends in multiple communities. And it's very much a— yeah, I'm in Florida, so I'm the gringo here. And people like when I actually say things even with a Latin or Spanish accent. It's like, "Oh, yeah, public school." So I'm glad that we were able to start off with that. And also, I'm just loving that one. I'm sure you're familiar with what your name actually means.

Yeah, I am.

Yeah. Are you?

I'm assuming I am. Some exes have called me bittersweet, but I am pretty sweet.

Yeah, yeah. And then, and also, Sheer is a song, you know, this beautiful song, right? It's so— and what you're trying to do is help people bring out the beautiful songs of their own life and with empowerment and the freedom to be them. Which takes a lot of effort and a lot of insight and a lot of patience. And, and you have a really cool story and a really cool journey. So before we get into what you're doing now, I don't want to ruin it and give away all the good stuff, but I think it's also important for people to understand what makes you so impactful and what you're trying to do and help other people with that's so impactful from your story about how you got there in the first place.

I appreciate that. I, you know, like any other person within our society, at least Western society, modern society, spent many, many years striving for all those things that we believe we need to achieve. And, um, and I thought I was winning in life and, uh, a life event Um, in 2013 turned that all around. I separated from my then partner of 13 years and we had 2 kids together. Um, and this was toward the end of 2013 and it completely broke me. And, and it wasn't, I didn't understand why it broke me because I had had heartbreak before and Yeah, I've read that, um, breakups aren't so much just about a broken heart, but about a broken future, because that's the future that you, um, have imagined and planned for and such. And there was certainly that, but it sort of, it became a, um, you know, straw that broke the camel's back or the tipping point for me, however way you'd look at it. But it made me realize that the worldly gains I had were not enough. Like, it wasn't— it was like I had built this beautiful external life that everybody oohed and aahed about, and internally I was I don't want to say dead, though I do have the, the last few years, uh, leading up to 2013, I do call them my Walking Dead years. But it's this feeling of mutedness. It's like muted internally and on, you know, crack externally. Yeah, I don't know what else to call it, but it's this, you know, like being so fully in whatever you want to call it, that, that treadmill or rat race that I wasn't even aware of the fact that I was so unhappy. Because I just, I was living the life that everyone said I should live and it was fine. I mean, it was a cushy, cushy bubble, you know, I wasn't down and out. I didn't have an addiction. I, you know, none of that stuff. But I was really, really muted. And I've come to realize that I think that a, a great number of people aren't facing. I mean, you hear those people who hit rock bottom, you hear about those people who go through, you know, tragic events, and some persevere and all of that, and that's really great. But I think that there's a large population of people who are just really doing their best according to what they have learned and feel like they're going through the motions of it. And then suddenly you've lost a few decades and like, what the fuck am I doing? What am I doing? So I had that big aha moment. Well, it didn't feel like an aha moment. It felt like crap. Um, in, in, at the end of 2013, and I was like, I just like, this can't be my life. I just, I, and I really wanted to find the truth for myself. Like nothing was worth it. The only thing that really held me up was my kids, like, okay, them, them, you know, I know that I have to right my ship for them.

Right.

And, and so I went through 6 very challenging years in that I mean challenging in that I challenged myself, like what's in this nook and cranny? What's in this corner? What have I not looked at? And I did many workshops, read so many books, watched every video there was to watch, sat with Buddhist monks, you know, like I did it all. And it was really, really difficult and challenging and turned everything around. And after 6 years, I really felt like I was whole. I, I remember actually leaving this, this one specific workshop, um, and it was 2019, at the beginning of 2019, and I was like, wow. And I realized at that time two things. One, that if I don't— I mean, I wanted to be, uh, married. I wanted to be with someone, but I knew that if I was not, that I would be totally fine. And I also knew that if I, I died that day, I didn't want to, but I knew that I, I had lived a full life. Like, it felt There was, there was, yeah, there was that completion of that.

And I just want to paint a bigger picture for people who haven't yet delved into reading your, your, your, your bio. And this is kind of why I want to try something a little bit different with you is, like you said, things were going really well, you were successful, there was no negative, right? There was no addictions, there was none of these crazy things. Paint a picture of what all of that success looked like for people who have no clue, who haven't Googled you yet? What was going on? What were you doing? Where— who are you hanging out with? All those things, right? And I really want them to see like this, what you're describing is whether someone is, you know, destitute, or someone is hanging out with high rollers and being a high roller, whatever, right? And that whole spectrum in between. We still have the work to do. We still have to do the unpackaging. We still have to peel away the layers. We still have to have growth and self-awareness and authenticity and accountability. So, but, but, but like you said, there was all these wonderful things going on and going right in your life. So just, just paint a picture of what that was professionally and, and, and, and for everybody else.

Yeah. So, um, I'm a media executive and my background is in film. I actually produced the very first feature film that was ever streamed online. It premiered online. It's called Walls of Sand, if you care to watch. It was back in '96. And the technology wasn't quite there. It kind of looked like a slideshow. But, but my background is in film and broadcasting. I ran quite a few series for the Discovery Network and Scripps Network and a lot of specials for the likes of ABC and BBC and Channel 4. And so very much in that world. And then in 2008, I switched over to the agency world just because there was a lot of opportunity there and the online world. So yeah, a lot of hobnobbing, a lot of award shows, a lot of hanging out with celebrities, which I won't rabbit hole, but I had amazing— I mean, like, you know, at the various Emmy and Oscar parties, and which is all really fun. So, and, you know, whatever, the homes, the cars, the awards, the accolades. Again, I just like— I mean, I remember at the time, I mean, this is leading to the breakup, we had this gorgeous home in Sonoma, and people would come there and be oohing and aahing. It was sort of like this Tuscan villa. And I remember it was like, I was like, I remember at the time I was like The Shining, you know, where there was the gorgeous resort. And Jack Nicholson's character was like losing his mind. That's how I was. I was like, guys have no idea what's going on in here. Like, it's just right.

And that's the picture I wanted to paint it because you had this American dream. You have like what people say they want and what people say they're working for. And they have this relationship and family and homes and success and, and impact.

Right.

And this space inside of us is— and I know, like, we were talking a little bit before we started the conversation, uh, before we started recording, was just this, like, cultural, community, intergenerational pressures that we, we play out that we don't even realize is not getting us to where we want to, want to go. And I don't— and in your situation, it sounds like you had this big thing, right, this very big thing that just tore that fabric. Some people have less intense experiences that bring them to that, but in your situation, it was a very intense experience for them that became an eye-opener to do something different versus repeating the same thing over and over again.

Yeah, and it's sort of, I suppose, you know, the law of, you know, something in motion will stay in motion unless, you know, hit with a Unless you hit the wall on it.

Yeah.

You know, and I feel like I— and actually, I think that there is a lot less growth when— one of life's many paradoxes, like when life is at its cushiest, we tend to have the least amount of growth because there is nothing. We don't really feel like we need to strive for anything. So Again, externally, I thought, you know, I'm fine. So why? And everybody looking in, you know, it'd be different if I was just like down and out or I was hitting the bottle or something and people are like, you need help, you know? But I didn't have any of that. I was super organized. I was productive. I, you know, made a good living. I had, I mean, even the community and the friends and, and all of that. It's just that. Internal fire was completely extinguished, and I wasn't even aware of it. And that the tricky thing is that I was also doing work that I love. I mean, I still love doing that. I'm still executive producer on a bunch of different projects because I love the creativity and the entertainment industry and especially the type of projects I'm working on now. So it wasn't even that. I mean, that's— and I think that's important to point out because people, you know, look at their life and go, I'm fine, I'm fine. And maybe they are. But I think that if anyone listening or watching feels that there is something missing, that there's there's a muting of something within them that's just not showing up or being allowed to show up. There's work to do. That is it.

Yeah, agreed. I had a conversation before we jumped on this, had my last session for the morning with one of my clients, and I was talking to them about the awareness of they're really good and the people they're attracting are really good at the attraction to beginner dating phase and the early— and that first stage of being in a relationship that we can call maybe the first 90 days. And then what happens after that? They're really good at that stage, and they're really good at attracting people in that stage who are good in that level, you know, from the other side of that, the person's also good at it. But then once they're in the relationship to commitment, relationship to— is this the person I want to be with? Over a long period of time. That's the stage where I find a lot of people are just not good at. And we're so used to, with all the amount of dating and, and, like, everybody's going on hundreds and hundreds of dates, or, or even with job interviews, like, people are really, really good at doing job interviews, and they're really good at the first few weeks of work. But then what happens when it becomes monotonous and boring and you don't have someone investing in you and you don't have a team leader or a boss, like, guiding you anymore, and you're not right? And I think a lot, you know, this idea of accountability and ownership of like what you were saying is if you're feeling something, it's like the— what is it like on the subways in New York? If you see something, say something. But right, but we're not, but we're all usually putting it to blame outside of us versus like the word that when you're talking about muting, I've been playing with, you know, the word malaise a lot. Like you just can't put your finger on it, but you know something is wrong and you don't feel awful. And you're not necessarily clinically depressed, but just something feels missing. And right, and it is that muted sound, like there's a part of you that's like diminished. You're not bright, you're not, you know, like feeling like your energy is going out into the world. And I think that that's like pre-pandemic, pre-this pandemic. I think that's been like— there's a few emotional pandemics that I think have been going on in the world. One is codependence, of being in codependent relationships. But two, is that what you're describing? I think you put your finger on that very clearly. I think that's what— I think that's been going on in the world for a while now, and you really are describing what I think majority of people don't even realize is what's happening.

Well, and, and there's, um, there's actually research behind this in that, you know, they say that as children between somewhere between age 0 and 7, we either detach or disassociate depending on the degree of the severity of what, what happened with our true essence. So detachment could be like, you know, you're in your crib and you cry and your parents don't come soon enough. And you're like, oh, well, What I need, what I naturally need doesn't work. So you create some sort of, even as a baby or as a toddler, some sort of strategy for something different. Sure. So, so you don't trust what is within you because it hasn't been effective. That would be like detachment. And disassociation, um, you know, there's, there's a variety of, um, a, a spectrum of disassociation. And it could be, you know, somebody's in a very toxic environment as a kid and it's like, that's not safe. So I am going to protect myself. So what happens at that time, we end up taking our, starting to take our cues from the outer world rather than trusting our inner, our inner essence. And then things get reinforced that way because when we go to school and I, I mean, I can talk all day long. I don't know if you watched Sir Ken Robinson's famous TED Talk, but he talks about how our education system is broken. And really it's broken because we don't teach our children the most fundamental conversations within life. You know, we teach them so much academic intelligence and very little emotional intelligence. So we grow up not even believing that that is a priority. And that's changing now. I mean, you look at the Northern European countries and they are very much baking that in. And yeah, I mean, I, again, I can go on and on about our education.

I have this for those who are listening, not watching. I have this huge grin on my face as Shirin was saying that. It's because one of the conversations I had this morning was with one of my clients who, they come from a culture where performance and achievement is priority. And I asked them, so tell me more about you being praised for being a kind soul.

Love that.

And when, when were you, you know, when are you getting that now in this present-day relationship? And are you getting that from your family of origin? Where you were praised for just being a kind and gracious, loving person versus what can you do for somebody else and how can you achieve, and then how can they benefit from your achievement, which is very cultural in some ways. And right, that's exactly what we're, what we're not getting. And, you know, now, and especially when we're in a culture where, you know, knowing your feeling, you know, eff your feelings, you know, your feelings don't matter. And, um, creativity. And I love that, the fact that there are education systems that are now, especially preschools, but it's funny. It's always preschools and maybe some elementary schools, you know, Montessori or, um, Emilio Reggio, or those type of that are inspired with like bringing that out in the, in the children. But there's none— I don't know, like, I'm not seeing Montessori high schools or Emilio Reggio high schools or these like— I mean, you may have these creative arts-based schools, like, you know, for music and whatever, but it's still performance-based and skill-based and, and mastering mastery, as opposed to like, like you said, this emotional intelligence as well. And you usually have the more artsy type of people who are going to be off the beaten path personality-wise anyway.

But it is also, though I should say, and it is also those students who graduate who create the corporations and companies that we work for. Like, you talk about things being systematic. I mean, it's— we create, and you're absolutely right. The artists are the only exception in this. I mean, and true artists. And I know that it's we don't make it easy for them, you know, we don't reward the, the artist the way we do somebody, you know, creating a startup or, or whatever it is. So, and then when you haven't been raised with that, how are you able to incorporate that into a company culture or, you know, so we are It's generational, it's educational, you know, and again, we don't even think about it until somebody comes along. I so often think about like the Me Too movement or Black Lives Matter and frankly the pandemic, like those are things that en masse suddenly shift our perception. Like, I, you know, I was in the entertainment industry. I wasn't necessarily on the casting couch, you know, but I did have inappropriate dinners with executive producers who just wanted, "Let's talk over dinner about this." There was a policy of that, even in the '90s, 2000s.

I remember hearing from someone I met in 1996 who grew up there and they were in high school when they started working in LA in the entertainment industry. And they told me some stories. So we're talking about like the mid to late '80s and that it was just a— it was just was. It just was.

It's how it is. Like, you're going to take down Harvey Weinstein, right? You're going to take down— like, ah, that is impossible. But it is possible. And up until the time that that happened. Like, it wasn't in my brain. It was like, you know, you have to play the game, and this is how it is, you know, just blah, blah, blah. But no. So paradigm shift. And Black Lives Matter, paradigm shift, right? Pandemic. Oh, like, we could actually work from home, and still really function and even thrive as a society. Correct. Yeah.

And I think that's the whole basis of when people have conversations. A good friend of mine—and it's a contrasting story—I have a good friend of mine who we haven't seen each other often as we did before the pandemic, and I reached out to him the other day. I was at a concert where I saw— he's very much into country music and we have very different political agendas, but our friendship and our respect for each other always came first. And I remember when I met him the other day, we just sat down and it was great, and it was just so nice. And even though he was presenting some things and I'm like, "Oh, okay, yeah, that makes sense." There was no going for the jugular even though we're diametrically opposed on certain things, but it was just the human decency factor was there. And I remember I was out at an event a few weeks ago contrasting this, and I was talking to a young couple that just got engaged. And I knew that we had different political beliefs, and I said to them, "I'm very much looking forward to getting to know you and getting I know you, and even if we disagree, I still look forward to liking you at the end of the conversation. And he's like, oh, that's really nice. And he like pulled his fiancée into the conversation. She's like, yeah, that's not going to be my agenda. Like, you're willingly starting off with that I disagree with you on politics, that you're going to want to— that you're willingly telling me you already hate me. Like, and there's just these like different like embracings of like creating different and other forget whether even it's work or relationships, like, even like I see it with relationships. And I know one of the things that you were talking about with all the different ways that your book can show up is how do you navigate this even in relationships is not seeing— I'm talking about the emotional intelligence, not seeing the value of which we can have relative influence on each other in a positive way versus trying to force it down each other's throats.

That's the thing. And I think that, you know, we as humans live life as if our opinion is the way it is. I mean, I have my political views. I have, you know, but that it doesn't, that's just, I think that is a part of being human. It's our ability to put our, you know, and it sounds cliché, putting our differences aside, but not even just putting our differences aside, shifting that conversation. Yeah, to, to what it means to be human and how we came to our various opinions and if there is a way for us to meet in the middle. So like, uh, me and my in-laws also have very different, um, uh, political views, and we've, we just made the decision that we will not have those conversations when we have family gatherings because we are together as a family and as humans. And it's not that we are ignoring politics or not politically aware or whatever, but we are actively choosing to come to the table at— as humans and connect that way. And, and that is what I want. Because I—

That's so much more powerful.

Well, when you do the work of self-transformation, there is an accountability that is baked in that you can't escape. Like, there is no way that you can do self-transformation the way that it becomes a wake-up call for yourself. And not feel a sense of responsibility, whether it is, you know, community-wide or global. Like for me, what happens in Uganda is important to me. You know, it isn't, oh, what's happening over there. It's the world. Is, is my community and is incredibly important. Some things I can affect, some things I can't.

But you're also saying you should be aware of what's going on out there so you can have any level of impact on a, on a local that can trickle down to world.

And it's a level of empathy and compassion as a, a human. So it is the opposite of the othering that you're talking about, you know? And I had this whole conversation during Gay Pride, you know, it's— and I don't want to rabbit hole down that way, but like the whole— like it used to be LGBT and now it's LGBTQIA and then it's LGBTQIA2+. And they're just adding to it. And again, while I stand shoulder to shoulder with all the other letters within the group, there is a danger in bucketing anything that is outside of straight into the other category. This is the normal. And then there's the other. And yes, and it used to be that we were tolerated and now we're accepted. Right.

And even within that community of the subdivisions of tolerance and not tolerating within that sub— oh my God, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I see it. Well, it's in everything, right? I mean, you can break that down and even apply it and even into like the performing arts world, right? Or I see it with my, um, I see it with my, with my military clients, like how they'll like, they'll always rag on like different parts of like, you know, the like, oh well, we're a Marine and you're just like Coast Guard. Oh, that's not really armed services, right?

Or even, or even, I mean, I'm, I'm a Iranian, and I would say yes, I definitely person of color. And, and there's actually Iranians that don't even consider themselves, uh, people of color. But there are definitely more privileged minorities than others. So you can't say that, you know, like a, again, like a trans woman will not have the same privileges as a straight white gay guy.

I mean, that's just how it is. Right. It's nuance. It's all nuance. Right. For sure.

So yes, coming back, dialing it all back to human conversations, like the very essential conversation, like what does your, what does your soul want? At this time? What is it reaching out for? That's what I'm interested in. It's so hard, right?

It's so challenging because as a therapist, as someone who works with entrepreneurs, as someone who works with performing artists, it's so interesting that we're one when ego gets in there, then we're distracted. That's all it is. That's all it is.

We're having my ego versus your ego. Yeah. I'm right. You're right. Yeah.

And when I— and just to tie that into that story with that couple, when I was talking to the guy, I said, can we start the conversation with all the things that we do agree on? And that's like, that opened that door, right? The fiancée wasn't part of that conversation. I was really trying to say— I knew, I know, I kind of knew who wore the pants in that relationship. Like, it was kind of obvious just by their energy of the two of them. And like, and I really— and I set that intention there. And it was just so not received that there was just this blatant, like, I'm not gonna connect with you, I don't want to connect with you, I don't want to connect with— and that can happen on both extreme, you know, political parties. And I think both, both sides are really stupid, and I'm going to call them out on that for doing that and being the wall of, like, well, you— right, that's just not healthy. And that's not like— and I see this with my clients, and I'm challenging with one of my clients, former military, and I'm like, listen, You and I, we know that we disagree on so many things, but I'm only here to help you get things that make you feel healthier, make you feel happier, and make— and more importantly, make you feel more connected with more things and more people. So if it does the opposite of that, if a belief does opposite of that, if an experience does opposite, if it doesn't allow you to connect more to yourself and more to others, and it's probably not a healthy thing. And I would say that to someone on the other side of the political coin. Too. So there has to be some baseline of, like you're saying, that your soul figuring that out. So like, what would be like, where would you start with someone just to help them identify that? And obviously, you know, but that's going to tie into your book, into your courses, obviously. And I don't want to give away too much that, you know, people— I want to leave a little bit of, uh, something to the imagination. But where, like, what would you kind of like just kind of jab them with to say, like, you know what, here's where— here's the first question I would maybe leave you with and, and have you start contemplating. If this is really— if you're feeling muted, if you're feeling this malaise, this numbness, you're not getting that which you say you want, look here.

Well, that's— it's a tricky one because, um, the, the very first, uh, chapter and week of My book in the process is, uh, Mind Detox. And I started there because that's the biggest culprit. You talk about the ego, that, that is it. Our, our mind is so closely attached to our ego. It is, it is the place that is attached. It's not our heart. You know, it's certainly not our soul. It's not our body. It's our mind that is very, very coupled with our, our ego. And the more threatened we are, the, the more protective we feel, the stronger our, our egos. So we can either, and, and this is interesting, and I know you'll agree with me, um, just because you, you are a practicing therapist. They— mental health had the same stigma that spiritual health has now. Like 10 years ago, you'd be like, yeah, I'm gonna go see my therapist. Right? Yeah. It wasn't like, hey world, I'm going to, um, take a mental health break now. Right.

And for everybody to be like, and let everybody know, and people are cheering you on for that.

Yeah. Spiritual health, I believe, it has that same stigma right now, you know. And so in order for us to do the type of work that I recommend and suggest in, in the book, we truly have to get out of our own way. And the only way that we can do that— well, there's two, the two main things that I talk about in that week, and I won't elaborate. But one is not believing everything we think. So, you know, when, when people talk about awareness or consciousness, it's literally stepping outside of our thoughts. And there are ways to do it. Meditation is one of them. But not everybody is a meditator, so I talk about various other ways of, of doing it. And then the other part is, is to limit or curate the content that we consume because we're so bombarded with everything. And I don't know if you saw The Social Dilemma, but it, it, the documentary about, um, how creators of social media never intended to create the Frankenstein that is created. And you can't really even point your finger anywhere because in order for the companies to succeed, they need advertising dollars. And the ones that have the biggest advertising dollars are the corporations. And corporations have strong political tie-ins. Sure. Right. So, and, and what the, I mean, the social platforms are, are doing what they've been programmed to do, which is to feed people more of what they believe the people want. So we're all in these echo chambers, right? Um, and so either it's the echo chamber or we turn on the TV and You know, especially the news. It is, it is created. I mean, I've been on that side where you are like, it's formulated so that it becomes provocative. And like, these things are so measured. We're going to bring this in at our, you know, uh, 2:03. We're gonna drop this in at 2:07. I mean, I've done the programming. I know, right? So, and, and, and so, so crazy.

But it's pro, but it's literally programmed. I mean, like, like, in other words, it's programming us. The best thing I could— I was at Dave Matthews Band concert last week. And like the first 5, 6, 7 songs were just like, it kept building and building and building. And he was like, great, it played a fast song. And it was great, you know, well-known song. And then he just went to something that was just like super slow. And it was a new song. And all of a sudden you see like, this is Dave Matthews, there's 20-something thousand, 30,000 people there. And I'm like, ah, it's bathroom time. And I'm going to the bathroom. And like, I see like, it's emptying out. And I'm like, oh my God, like what a lost opportunity. Because I can't imagine like, the average person. I mean, this is like the one thing I would say about like a Dave Matthews Show is like, I've been to a few, and it's that same rhythm. Like, I don't know if Taylor Swift is doing that. I don't know. I think I don't know if that's like, oh, I need to do my new song. And I have a new album that just came out, like, so therefore I need to put this in. But it was like being mindful of that energetic flow. But like, that's like what you're saying, like social media and news, and like these things are baked into the programming neurologically and physiologically to get that compelling hook. Which I think on the other side, when you, when you just referenced a TED Talk a few minutes ago, I think that's what's so brilliant about TED Talks. There's a formula to TED Talks. And there's a great video, I can't remember the name of the gentleman who did this. He basically gave a TED Talk where it was him basically doing what the magic of the TED Talk was. He's like, and now I'm gesticulating wildly into the crowd with my pair of glasses that I'm wearing that don't even have lenses. That makes me look smarter. And I'm gonna put my glasses in my hands, I'm gonna bite the tip of my glasses, and now I'm gonna wave it in the air as if I'm really punctuating the point. Yada, right? It was a brilliant TED Talk.

Yep. Oh my God, I have to watch it.

And now I'm gonna raise my voice like I'm getting to the crescendo. About you should be taking something away, and there's something wrong with you if you don't get my point. Awesome. It was the TED Talk about TED Talks, right? Yeah. But I think that's what you're, what you're sharing is like, that's what we're being programmed to do culturally and societally at some level without even realizing it.

It's, it's truly, it's truly quieting the mind. I mean, it blows me away how we are so afraid of our minds being quieted, being able to truly sit in silence. I mean, it's like as soon as we finish work, we'll, you know, um, turn on the TV show. We'll transition to something else. Like it's just, uh-huh, no, no, no, no, no, no. And then we're all wondering, like, why do we feel so overwhelmed and, you know, underwhelmed and all of that? I mean, it is, and I talk about it in the book. There's a thing called infoxication. It's literally content overload. So you can't make really clear decisions. Sure. It's kind of like, hmm. You know, a state of limbo almost.

And we're gonna go for the things that are the least resistance or that we're most, you know, consistently habitually doing. It's funny, while you're talking about that, like, obviously, you know, I don't want to distract people from the work that your book is doing, but I'm thinking of two books that I think are really powerful to get more information to kind of support what you're accomplishing for people. One is The Untethered Soul, which sounds a lot like what you're—

I love Michael Singer. There you go. So there you go. I got a little story about—

yeah, go ahead. And the other one is, is all the work that Stephen Porges is doing with the polyvagal theory about the interoception and right, the internal and external stimuli where our nervous system is just so flooded. And that how, like what you're describing of cultural phenomena, social media, TV, movies, right, all these things. Our nervous system is already so emotionally dysregulated that it knows how to take advantage, right? That these things are built to capitalize on our emotional dysregulation. And especially now with the political conflicts, for lack of a better word, shit show, let's just call it that, that it's capitalizing on our dysregulation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting that you talk about Michael Singer because And I love him for many reasons. But when he wrote The Untethered Soul, he was going through the biggest litigation of his life. And most people don't know that. His background, much like mine, isn't in, you know, he's not a doctor, he's not a therapist, not a licensed— maybe he is at this point, but back then, and I think still, He was a geeky engineer, you know, and he had a major aha moment. His company was being sued and I don't know the details of it. So when people read that, they just think, oh, you know, this author must have, you know, he has it all figured out, right? And has it. But literally he was writing that, which makes that book even more profound. Because if you could go through that much strife and that much stress and to be able to find that, um, stillness, very refuge within yourself, then you truly are unbreakable, right? And, and that's, that's it. I mean, that's, that's also my book. It isn't a matter of— and I think that when people do these types of programs or go to retreats, you know, they go to find the answer. And, um, you know, they again ascribe to this, don't ascribe to that, and, and all of that. But truthfully, it isn't a matter of arriving to a wonderland because this life is super challenging and difficult. So it is how you walk through it as gracefully and soulfully as possible. That is truly it.

Yeah. And these retreats and these— it's, it's as I look around in front of me, all the bookshelves and books and stuff that I have in the closet, right? It's, it's wonderful. And it's enriching. And it's not one book that has been the silver bullet. And I think that's kind of like one of the things, and even as an author and as a person who is and personal development, right? It's the book that you need to write right now. And like you said, like, you're gonna— the fact that it could be multivariable to different subsets of different types of challenges or communities, or, uh, right, that, that's what's there. There's these ideas that are just going to be stepping stones for the next layer that people need to peel away. And that's really what this whole thing is. It's just the next layer of the onion, right? The husks of that. And the reminder is that underneath it all, we're all actually really beautifully wonderful, healthy individuals. It's the stories that gunked us up. It's the belief of those stories. It's the buy-in to those things, the traumas, the whatever, right? But talking about from that soul level, that's untouchable, that's unbreakable, that's undestroyable, that's unmuddled. But we believe that, you know, and maybe this is part of where your book leads people, is realizing that that was never damaged in the first place. It's the husks that we— right, the onion layers that we're peeling away little by little.

And that is so spot on, so much. I mean, literally, the first part of the book— because it's in two parts— the first part of the book is all about the peeling away. Yeah, because whatever our true essence is, is sitting way, way, way underneath all the schmutz we have put on top of it, again, from the time we detached or disassociated from our true essence at a very young age. So to be— I, um, I, in my book, and, uh, a few times I've mentioned it, and I'll mention it really quickly, but the most beautiful visual that I have from it, and my background is is in film and entertainment is The Black Stallion. Did you ever see The Black Stallion? I'm trying to remember.

I'm thinking like '80s and '90s.

Yeah, it's a classic Oprah. He, he, I don't know if he's directed it, but he's the executive producer. So just really, really quickly, a boy and a stallion get shipwrecked. They're in the same shipwreck. They ended up getting stranded on an island together, and it's just the two of them, and they spend some time. They're first afraid of one another, but they slowly form a friendship, and the black stallion slowly allows the boy to ride bareback on him. And there's all these, like, gorgeous cinematic shots of them riding on the beach during sunset. And lo and behold, they are rescued and brought back to society, and they try to separate the boy and the horse, and neither one of them will have it. And they're like, okay, the two of them have to be together. So she— he studies to be a jockey, um, because that makes sense, right, to be close to— so he gets all this training, the best coaches, all this stuff, and they show a whole thing of that. And then he is, um, at this big race, and out of the gate, he and the horse stumble, and all the other horses take off. And then he writes himself, and then they're, you know, clearly, you know, upset. And he starts writing again. And this is where the magic comes in. And I still get goosebumps whenever I talk about it. He starts stripping away everything, like everything, you know, his goggles, his helmet, his whip. And he starts riding the horse the way he did. On that beach. And, and then of course they end up winning, um, the, the race. But that's, that's what it is, because it's always been there.

It's always been there.

Yeah, it's, it's doing that thing that is calling you forth. And, and when I talk about the soul, and they try really hard not to be too woo-woo in my, you know, because it's like you talk about the soul and it gets mixed with, you know, spirit, and they're two different things, which I talk about in the, in the book. But our soul is truly our unique signature in this universe. Like no other organism has the same makeup as you do. And there's something so beautiful about that. And yet we, you know, are, are raised to, you know, become cookie cutters and be like everybody else. And there's only, you know, these specific professions and this, this is good, that is bad, you know, all that stuff. So of course we're like, you know, we ended up becoming robotic and, um, and, and anybody who is, you know, artists, which is, you know, circling back to that, they're the only ones that I truly know who are not detached from their true essence, who are living And we don't make it easy for them.

No, no. I know Esther Hicks in the Law of Attraction world calls that your inner guidance system. Yeah. And, you know, and, and if, and, and the, then we create resistance and our right is to drop the resistance around allowing what is. And, and I, and I see this all the time. I see this with me. I see this with, with my clients. One of the things I do, this modality called neuro-emotional technique, and, um, it's using, it's originally came out of chiropractic, but it evolved into other licensed mental health practitioners and acupuncturists and other stuff. But we're basically looking for the physiological stress pattern and the nervous and the way the story became involved in our nervous system and can turn into physical symptoms and stuff like that. So yesterday we had a get-together for local practitioners in South Florida, and the thing I worked on was being congruent. In other words, being as neutral as possible with helping the people that are so successful that my client rate, attracting more clients that are incredibly successful. So that can help me, right? The more I can help them, the more that can help me, right? As opposed to like it being this one-way thing. And obviously, what does that mean? It's not like, well, I'm using them. It's that my biggest referral source has always been from clients that I've been able to give the most to. And the better I do, the better my clients do, the more I'll do well. Right? So, but it was like finding the ways that I have resistance on helping my clients that are really successful become more successful so that in return it can help me, as opposed to like, you know, like, no, no, I'm just giving, I'm just giving. It's not because we all have that, like, even like, you know, even we all need. And I think that's breaking the idea of like, even for therapists, that like we don't have this like, oh no, we're just like this blank slate, but we're not. Like, we all have our stuff. Still. But I want to— right, but it's me getting in front of the right people.

We also just think that it's a really beautiful way of thinking about it, or approaching it, because then you're always evolving, right? Every, every, every person that you see helps your evolution instead of, yeah, blank canvas, which, you know, you're human too. Correct. Correct.

And even if you look at it from any profession, right, whatever industry— I'll just use mine— is it, right? A broke therapist isn't a good therapist. Yeah, definitely. A broke anybody is not a good anything, right? So one of my friends just posted online, like, the best way— it's very interesting, we can get into a whole debate about this, but when we don't, you know, not even a debate, but I'm sure we can talk about all the different ways culturally that this may not make sense— but the best way to help those that are financially insecure, right, in financial insecurity, is for you to not be financially insecure yourself. Because then you can create stuff, you can empower, you can give more charity, you can— so, you know, it's, it's lift, it's the rising tide raises up all ships mentality. Absolutely.

And it's also coming back to the whole law of attraction. You know, there's some things I agree with and some things that are a little even too woo-woo for me, but I think that I absolutely believe in, in energy, you know, so that type of energy influences, you know, I mean, energy influences anyway, so why not have positive impact? Yeah. Yeah.

And the way I do it is that it's all neurology and physiology. So we are— neurology can only— right, our physiology and our neurology combined together, like when when we're looking at our emotional reality, it can see only that which it's in alignment with, based on our beliefs, assumptions, and expectations, to the point of the amount of work that we've done, and not much more. And, and we can only attract, right? What we mean by attract, in other words, we can only let in, not let in. Like, how many situations— and that was one of the things I was working on— in what ways am I dismissing or diminishing or not allowing opportunities for me to be in front of the people that will— that I can really also serve powerfully, equally powerfully, that also in a way that they might be like, oh, like, Jason, here's in return another way in which I could be useful to you in your career and help you get in front of, right, different people, and, um, or people who are more like that, right? And, and it's whatever belief assumption and expectations I carry has to be diminished about that. Right, and cleared out.

That's exactly the paradigm shift that I'm talking about. Yeah. Like you doing that, then, you know, it's interesting because I, as I step into this world and I'm considered a subject matter expert, how people view me, you know, and I think that it is really important for those who are in a leadership position to point out that we don't live perfect lives, that we don't, you know, it's not like, you know, we are mistake-free and, and all of that, that it's an evolution. And there isn't one, uh, self-transformation thought leader that is out there who I just think is perfection. Right. And there, there is no such thing. Right. So, and I could, I, there are a few who are now speaking about that, that there's a, a, a level of transparency, which I so appreciate.

Yeah. And the vulnerability, right? Brené Brown was a good example of that.

Brené Brown is a good— Mel Robbins is another one. Sure. Who, you know, because we come to a place where we have this level of awareness and we're compelled to share it. Because we feel that it will benefit those who, who need it. But there isn't— we're not striving for perfection, and we are humans who are also evolving. Do I believe that there's different levels of consciousness and awareness in this world? Absolutely. You know, and, and there are so many things I have yet to learn. But that, you know, it's— I'm not done in any way. Thank goodness for that. Nor is any other self-transformation, you know, the Anthony Robbins of the world. Sure. You have their—

they're always evolving. And that's the cool thing. And especially seeing people on their journey. Like, one thing I was watching was— his name just blanked out on me. But I had his book before his Netflix show, Ramit Sethi. And seeing it, right? And how many years ago I read his books. And now I'm like— and then seeing that he had a Netflix show that came out a few months ago, and I'm like, "Oh, man, he's been doing this for 19 or something years." And he like— I mean, just the brilliance in it of just the patience with the process. And like him thinking, "No, no, no, this is not something that I don't—" Obviously, anybody wants to be— tomorrow they want to become the successful person, but him mapping out like, no, this is not going to be a slow— this is a slow burn so I don't burn out fast long term. And it made me so excited, like, one day popped up on Netflix that he had a TV show. Like, that was like, how cool that like X amount of years after his book came out that he finally was like one of those people that got discovered with just doing the due diligence. And I think it's not— it's, it's the commitment to connection over perfection for me, is in, right, connecting to yourself, connecting to your people, connecting to community, connecting to all the different ways the tapestry can become more colorful. I guess maybe it is that metaphor of the coat of many colors type of thing, right? And it makes a much more beautiful tapestry, but we have to start with that inner work with ourselves of not cutting out all of the possible opportunities that are literally right in front of us. And that's kind of what I'm hearing from you is when we do that work, when we go into ourselves, when we do the deeper work for ourselves, we're going to start seeing that they've, A, been there all along, but, two, give ourselves opportunity to see more opportunities and to create more opportunities to be truly the healthiest version of ourselves. Absolutely.

And I think that the other myth that is reinforced in our society is the quick fix. You talked about the slow burn. I don't know anyone who has turned their lives around, you know, within a day. You can make that decision and move toward it. Sure. But the process is, it, it takes a while and it takes as long as it takes. I mean, when I was grieving my relationship, people learned, people around me learned very quickly that they could not tell me to be on with it. Like, oh, well, you've been grieving this long. It's been 6 months. You need to quote unquote let go because we don't really let go anyway. Right. We just gift it forward to other people. But there's this notion in our society that we just have to get on with it. Like, and it's just, again, like the quick fix, you know, give me 3 pointers. And, and while those 3 pointers are sort of like Really like going to the gym, you know, those, if when you're working out, if you go once a year and you work out once, you're like, oh, this feels good. You know, right.

But no abs after that one time trip. Don't walk out disappointed that you don't got them.

Right. Right. So it's, it's that, you know, it's that same thing. It's like you, I could give you 3 quick tips and it may be handy, but if you haven't done the groundwork of it, Yeah, then you're on to the next 3, you know, or the 10 big, you know, whatever it is, you know. And as a society, we're built that way. And why? Like, why do you need the quick tips in order for you to go and do the more important work, which you're dreading doing? I mean, like, yeah, a lot of crazy making, a lot of crazy making.

So as we're, as we're wrapping up, for people to find you? One, there's the book. So just drop, drop some places they can read, connect, learn, engage with you. Where are those places?

So anything that is associated with me as an author and self-transformation speaker is in my name. So shereenadassam.com and all my socials, whether it Instagram. On Facebook, I'm Shereen Addissohm Author. But TikTok, LinkedIn, well, LinkedIn, it's, it's Shereen Addissohm regardless of what I'm doing. So find me. I am really good with DMs. I might not get back fast, but I will get back and trying very, very hard to I answer anything that's not spam directly, but it does take me a little while.

No crypto spams will be answered. And the book is called Free to Be: A 6-Week Guide to Reclaiming Your Soul. And I have one side curveball question for you. So one of my favorite things about the Iranian community is you guys have amazingly poetic curses. And, and one of them I've, I've heard is, uh, may your armpits— right, if you really want to get someone— may your armpits be infested with the sweat of a thousand camels is one. And, and another one is may your neighbors not never have garbage to take out, meaning they're not celebrating, they're not having guests over there, and people are not celebrating with them, they're not having—

yeah, right.

Is there one that comes to your mind? I know it's a hardcore curveball, but is there one that comes to your mind that's just so hysterically poetic and beautiful and funny at the same time?

I don't know if I could think of one that is in that line, but we have— it's such a gorgeous Persian— is such a Farsi— is such a gorgeous language, and it's very precise. So we have, like, for example, the word "tequigo." It means someone to lean on. So one word that has that meaning, like, we don't have that, or at least I'm not aware of it. So we're very, very— It's poetic. Yeah, it's poetically on point. Yeah. Yes. There's quite a lot of that, which isn't surprising that the, you know, the Khayyams and the Rumi's are all from that background.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was such beautiful— I mean, the literature, and I mean, just the wisdom that was coming out from that, from those areas were just so— were so fascinating.

So that, you know, and then we have, we have, um, other things that are really funny, like how we've acquired, um, certain words. And we can like get into it.

But there's like Josephine, for example, popcorn and elephant, right?

Popcorn and elephant parts. Right. There's a reason for that, because somebody mispronounced something, and then it just built on that.

So yeah, yeah, I remember hearing that one for the first time. It's great. That's great. So yeah, so cool. So everybody who's been listening, one, you know, thank you again for listening. And If there's anything in this episode that you know for you, you loved, just leave us a review, just so we know that you're listening and it helps other people find this. But two, if there's anything specifically that you took away from this, reach out to you, reach out to Shirin directly, reach out to me, let us both know. Because that's why we're doing this. That's why she's taking her time out of her really busy schedule to spend time with me and for us. And you know why I love doing this so much. So Shirin, thank you. Again, and really am glad that we were able to have this conversation. And hopefully, well, as, as the book evolves from the different, you know, categories and the different things come on, you'll please come back and tell us more. I would love to.

Thank you so much for having me on your show.