You Winning Life Podcast Ep. 93-Illness Recovery Coach Kaley Zeitouni

Hey guys, welcome back to the You Winning Life podcast. So today's guest is Kaylie Zitouni, and she's hanging out with us all the way from the incredible, beautiful city of Jerusalem. She travels back and forth between Los Angeles and Israel. She, just like me, is a marriage and family family therapist, and her expertise is helping people face their biggest challenges, especially dealing with chronic pain and grief and helping people create a healthy blueprint in order to create a healthy life. So, Kaitlynn, thank you so much for hanging out.

Thank you so much, Jason Wasser. I'm so excited to be here.

So before the, the show, as we were just, you know, playing introduction catch-up, we realized that we have a ton of friends in common, which is always, always fun, especially very close, that are very close to us in our lives, which is great. But we also both are marriage and family therapists. And right off the bat, like, I don't really talk about this enough. So from your perspective, what makes working with a marriage and family therapist or a family therapist, you know, an MFT, different than the average therapist in your mind?

Oh, that's so interesting.

I don't think I've ever even been asked that.

Well, it takes an MFT to ask really good questions, right? Yeah.

That's, that's the difference. It's asking good questions.

We just ask better questions. You know, I think that the most important thing for me, and this is— that's specifically why I went for this license versus any other type of therapist or a psychologist, is that you understand that there's a system in place. And so certainly a psychologist is also going to study that, but that's— we live there, you know. And so even if you're seeing an individual, you're more than anything aware of the system and how the system affects the Affects the individual. And the truth is, now I'm realizing— it's so funny that I haven't thought about this before, but both of us also do a lot of work with the body and the mind-body connection. And now I'm like, that's the perfect parallel because I, you know, I, I only started getting to the mind-body connection a few years ago. I was a marriage and family therapist. I've been a therapist for over a decade. And now I'm realizing it's— it's— I went ahead and just used the same concept, like look at the whole system. So yes, yeah, that's my answer.

Well, it's also right, my, my introduction to the mind-body stuff was years ago, um, I went to a chiropractor who was doing muscle testing and found something, uh, with the person I was with. And I'm like, okay, that's crazy, but it sucks I can't do this as a therapist. And it wasn't until, um, you know, 11 years ago, give or take, 10, 11 years ago, when I was going through divorce, and I started having panic attacks. I tried everything. And I eventually got connected with someone who does this modality, NeuroEmotional Technique. And I'm like, oh, oh, okay, so therapists can do this. And that started my own rabbit hole journey into that space. And it's been an incredible, incredible thing since then. And like, you know, that the mind and the body isn't separate, right? That's the whole medical model that separated, you know, emotions and physiology from you know, from experience. And I think that the systemic approach, looking at everything in context to everything else, versus that things happen within a little vacuum, is a very different way of looking at things. So you've been applying this towards grief, towards chronic illness. I know you have a significant story of, of what's happened in your life that partially led you there. So I'd love for the listeners to, to learn from that.

Sure, absolutely. So I was actually diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, MS, when I was 12, which at the time was pretty much unheard of. Today there are pediatric MS centers, it's, it's much more common. It was unheard of at the time. And so even back then, I had to do a lot of my own research, my own legwork, just to kind of figure out basic treatment even within the medical model. But I just always knew deep down that I've, I've always believed in the mind-body connection. And, and I knew it even then. I knew it inherently, intuitively then. And the other way that I get— the other intuition I had, again, before I even had the diagnosis, because the diagnosis itself took a while, it took 3 months. And so the first time I looked at my brain scans, the first time I looked at my MRI which was before we had even thought, before it was even imaginable, conceivable that I had a neurological disease. Like, that was not, I mean, we didn't know what to think. There were a million questions going through my mind, through my parents' minds, but all of a sudden, you know, you're sitting there in the neurology department. And so the first time I looked at my MRI, you can see scarring on the MRI. You see lesions and sclerosis means scar. So that's why it's multiple sclerosis. And I remember asking the doctor, can that heal? Can that scar tissue heal? And he said, nope.

Like, definitively, right?

Because they've never seen it happen in their little world, right?

They've never seen it happen. And it didn't occur to him like, I'm about to crush this child's hope.

He just—

no bedside manner, just nope, that's not possible, never going to happen.. And I just feel like it was, that moment was honestly such an amazing gift from God because what actually happened was, I remember that moment so vividly. I felt like it was an echo, like the sound, like his words just kind of bounced right off my ear. And all I heard was this voice inside that said, that's crazy. It's the human body. Of course the body can heal. What is he, nut? Like that's And, and was— and so I heard the intuition instead of his response, which was a pivotal moment in my life. Because listen, I was a kid, my next steps were all within the medical system. And I had to do the best I can to navigate that. But that voice was always there. And it's so much louder when we're children, our intuition, our knowing, and it stayed with me. And years later in my 20s, I went back to that voice and I said, okay, we've lived really, really tough adolescence, early adulthood. There were some really rough moments. I mean, you name it, I've experienced it. And, and I finally one day just said, okay, enough is enough. I have to figure out this mind-body thing. I, I've got to go all in and learn what this is about. And I did it, and I've been symptom-free for 10 years. And it's been amazing. I'm— it's especially once you know what it's like to not have health, right? It's, you know, people always say that. And I was a public speaker from a very young age, and I would always tell people, like, you don't know how lucky you are when you're healthy. You don't realize it when you're healthy, how much you have to be grateful for.

And now I get to be the healthy person and know how lucky I am.

Well, it's the other side of the mountain that we— most people don't think that they can get to because the mountain has been perceived as so big. Right?

Yeah.

And we spend so much time, effort, energy trying to scale it, but we never stopped to think about, well, what actually might be on the other side that I want to get to? Because, right, it becomes this big emotional blockage. And I know, right, as a therapist, our job is not just to talk about what they're coming in for, but also what their life would look like, what they want it to look like, what they want to create with the absence of—

yes, thing. Where you're going, what you want that to be. And, and what you just described is one of the key components of recovering and getting long-lasting relief from symptoms of chronic illness. You have to visualize your life as a healthy person, and not just because that feels good and it gives you a nice thing to look forward to, but because the body hears that. Your, your brain doesn't know the difference between what is imagined and what is real. And so when— so I would visualize for hours every day. I could be in the most horrendous pain and I would just lay there, tears streaming down my face from pain, and just keep seeing that future without pain, feeling well, feeling vibrant, feeling healthy, convincing my body that was real, thanking my body for being healthy. Yeah, because that's the— the cells hear that, the body hears that and interprets that as real, and the body goes, oh, okay, we're healthy. Let me do some rearranging here, you know, and it doesn't happen overnight, but it happens.

Well, it is a process. And if we look at it from the scientific perspective, the neurology can facilitate healing because without, you know, sickness is— comes from multiple perspectives. It comes from an NET world. We talk about the Home Run Formula, right, where we look— whatever issues that the client is dealing with, we put on the pitcher's mound and we have to run the bases to see what's showing up where. So first base would be emotion, and what's going on in the world of the landscape of emotions. And that's therapy and using NET and other, you know, mind-body modalities from that side of the coin. Second base would be toxins. What are the toxins that are in the body that we need to help them get out, right? Environmental, you know, food, preservatives, right? Radiation, parasites, all that stuff.

Yeah, there's so many.

All that stuff, right? Third base would be nutritional deficiency, right? Are you not getting enough of what you need? And we need to add that in. And then home plate would be structural. Chiropractic, physical therapy, acupuncture, PT, massage, right, all the, all the physical components. And if we don't look at all 4 of those components when it comes to healing, then we're missing something. And what I love what you said, very specifically about the mindfulness component of it, where you, your mind— how do I say this in the most simple layman's for people out there that may not be familiar with this process? There is a mind over matter. It's not just a saying. And our, you know, when we, if we cut up a lemon, an imaginary lemon in front of us, and I want people who are listening to do this, cut up an imaginary lemon in front of you, take a wedge, right, and squeeze it into your mouth, you're going to get those salivating, salivation is going to happen, but there's no, there's no lemon there. The same thing, that's our physiology responding to what we think about and what we put our attention to. So even more so when it comes to, to that, when it comes to our healing, that's the same part of our process.

Yes.

My guess is you're probably a Law of Attraction Esther Hicks fan.

Oh, yeah. Okay.

So, right. So one of my favorite stories from her, and it relates very much in a practical level that I want people to get this when it comes to practicality. She was traveling years ago. This is an old story. And she saw this fountain that she wanted to install by the pool that she was building with, with her new house. And she's like, oh, this is really great. I want to show it to Jerry, who was her husband at the time who passed away years later. And she took a picture and she went back to do her workshop conference. And then afterwards, she forgot got, you know, for whatever reason, they didn't make it back to go get the fountain. So for months later, she would take that picture and hold it out while they were doing construction on the pool. And it'll be— oh, God, it looks so good over there. And then she would move her phone with the picture. And it'd be like, oh, it also looked really, really, really amazing there. And she did this for God knows how long. Eventually, she went back, the store still had it, she brought it home, she installed it. The next morning, Jerry goes to her, so what's it like finally having the fountain for the pool that you've wanted for so long? And her response was, as you probably know, it doesn't feel any different. Having it in person doesn't feel to me any different than the idea and the excitement around what it would be like had it been there in real-time reality. So that's exactly what you're talking about.

Yeah, you have to make it real.

And, you know, I'll say that one of the—

it's a— that is not only the key to recovery, along with a number of other things, of course, But I think that's one of the most powerful tools. It's also sometimes the most challenging because when you're in it and when you're visualizing your healthy future, sometimes that can bring up the gap. You can then, you can be reminded of, oh, but I don't have this right now. And so a lot of times what I find with my clients is that's the point where they struggle the most and sadness comes up and frustration and resentment and, and pain, right? They begin to mourn, but I don't have it yet. And so this is where I say, like, this is where you have to become a mind ninja and you, you have the capacity to do it because you've already fought the hardest battles living with illness. Like you've already fought all of it. So now harness all of that energy and put it into this moment. And don't worry about whether or not this is actually real in this moment. Your job is to convince your body that it's real. So when that emotion comes up, you have to pivot. And I'm like the last person on earth to say ignore an emotion. But when you're in that visualization practice, you have to— that emotion comes up, that sadness, but I don't have it right now. You have to pivot and convince yourself that it's real. And that, that, that story that you just told with, with Esther Hicks is so such a great metaphor for that. I'm totally going to use that because you're— if she had focused the whole time on, oh my gosh, but I didn't get the fountain and now I don't have the fountain. How could she have actually envisioned her new backyard? She was convinced it's gonna work, it's gonna be there, and, and then went and got it and put it there, right? So it was like the most simple thing in the world. The rest of us, most humans, don't operate that way, but you can, right? It's possible, which is amazing.

I think one of the exercises that I love doing with my clients is the "wouldn't it be great if." exercise, right? So yet you're not there yet. So if it's a relationship, well, wouldn't it be great if I did have a good, you know, if my relationship was better? I don't have the money yet. Well, wouldn't it be great if, right? It's not that we're convinced that it will happen, but what does it feel like if you did? Wouldn't it be great if, right?

Yeah.

And, and that really does, um, because you wouldn't, right? Our training has a lot with language and language, right, uh, meaning. And when we sometimes, a lot of the problems go away when we just start talking about it differently and using different words to describe it. And as I was hearing you talk, one of the curiosities I had about, you know, from your vantage point and your personal experience is the connection between feeling grief and allowing healing to happen. Because one of my favorite psychologists, Dr. Kurt Cobain, once said, "I like the comfort in being sad." And we do get used to the new normal, which is our baseline. And anything out of that will be uncomfortable, will be different, because at least we know what we're getting. Yeah. So from your perspective, not just managing grief, but facilitating grief, growing through grief, leaning into grief, and using grief as a tool, especially when it does come to illness, right? Autoimmune is very much connected to inflammation, and inflammation is very much connected to pain.

Yeah.

So how would you connect moving through grief? And it doesn't necessarily have to mean the 5 stages of grief, but like the concept of grief, as far as it relates to getting to the goal of one's healing.

Sure.

Yeah.

So I'll just, um, just to give context here, right? So I wear a completely different hat as a grief coach, and obviously there's overlap.

Um, But I work with people who've lost a spouse or a partner.

And what you're bringing up is actually a really big theme. So it definitely applies to chronic illness as well. But what you see a lot with people who are facing loss is it's horrendous in the beginning, absolutely horrendous. And you feel like your life is over. You're never going to get through this moment. And then it's not that grief gets easier. You just learn to adapt, right? So you're learning, you've learned to adapt, you've learned to kind of find a way to survive.

And in that, it's like I always say, there are, those are coping mechanisms.

They might not be healthy ones, but they're coping mechanisms, you know? So you put these things in place to help yourself manage and get through. And, and it's a sense of safety, it's a sense of protection, it's a sense comfort, like you said, it's a comfort zone. And, you know, a lot of what I have to do with people is help them move past that so that they can thrive, not just survive. And it can be really scary.

It can feel really scary to think, am I going to be leaving my loved one behind?

Am I betraying them? Am I betraying myself? You know, is it, you know, can I actually? And so it's, I think it's really crucial to have guidance right from the beginning, as you said, to facilitate facilitate grief, because when you fully lean in, fully, fully lean in, you actually move through the process of grief so much more quickly and get to a stage where you, you can actually feel not just like it's possible to have another life, but excited that there's a vibrant life waiting for you. And so, and I actually started out as a grief coach before I moved into illness recovery. And because it hadn't occurred to me, I did it for myself, but it never occurred to me I should do this for others until people started coming to me and be like, can you please teach me how to do this? And I was like, I can try. And then, you know, one after the next and the next. And I was like, oh my gosh, this works. This is— I can repeat this. We can replicate this. So the most fascinating thing is that's often the most difficult thing we can do.

You know, I go through—

my program goes through a few steps. Once we've unlocked the body's natural healing capacity, we've given everything it needs to just have its natural ability to heal. We've restored the relationship with the body. We've shifted so much. Often the last step is exactly what you're describing, is that sense of, am I ready to be a different person, to give up on how comfortable this is? And even though it's painful, even though I'm suffering, and even though I don't want to still be on medication, I know this animal, I know this life, and I've, I've figured it out. I've figured out how to adapt so that it kind of works. And it's a big leap, and it's about helping people, kind of holding their hand through it step by step, and, and helping them believe in themselves and awaken their true essence, reminding them that this is who you actually are. The one you're doing right now, it's comfortable and it's nice, but it's not who you really are. You didn't come, you didn't incarnate for you to be comfortable. You actually want, like you said in the beginning, you actually want what's on the other side of the mountain.

So you know what?

I'll climb it with you. We'll do it together. Baby steps, explore, experiment. And sometimes you just have to be really honest with people. Like, you really want to stay in that story? Is that the person you want to be? That's how you want to define yourself? Yeah, you're welcome to. It's your choice. But just know that you're making that choice to define yourself that way, you know.

And well, a lot of us aren't aware of that, right? That— so there's really a one-two punch to this process. One is the healing from the experience that may have happened outside of you to someone you love and care about, or what's going from the medical side to something going on inside of you. And the second part of healing is willing to let go of the identity you formed as the person related to what happened outside or what's going on inside of you. Right.

So I think both stages, those sounds—

that sounds like what you're what you're experiencing and sharing that people can get through.

Yeah, it's crucial. And I'll say that that was probably the hardest stage for me too. Like, for me to do for myself was—

I was diagnosed when I was 12.

By 13, I was a patient advocate. A year later, I started my own nonprofit. I was a public speaker. I, I was the poster child. I was in the middle of the community. And when I started my healing journey, I said, Am I going to lose this? Am I going to lose this community? And then who am I if I'm not the spokesperson for living with MS? And it was really hard because that was— I made that my identity. I didn't realize how much I was tied up in that identity.

And it was—

there was a lot of sadness. And at a certain point, it just came to a decision of like, okay, I'm going to choose health over this. And it was a scary moment.. But I just said, I have to choose that because, you know, obviously that, that's what I wanted, but it was, it was actually scary to let go of everything I had worked so hard for and, and everything I had built and that I w— I was a fighter. I overcame, I did so much despite my symptoms, you know? And that's, by the way, a huge narrative. Like I've accomplished so much despite all my symptoms. And I was like, well then if I'm healthy, Do the accomplishments matter as much? I mean, I had to get very real with myself in this process. And, and there was some grieving there that like, I might not have that.

And I certainly did not expect that on the other side of healing, I would have a whole, a whole new way of interacting in the public sphere and inspiring others.

And thank God, I'm so grateful that I get to still do that in a totally new way. But at the moment, I didn't know that. And when we don't know what's on the other side, it can feel so scary. And you just have to somehow trust and believe that it's going to be better than anything you could have ever imagined, you know.

Well, I think that's where the idea of being a conscious creator comes in, that when you buy into the idea that you don't have to be reactive to a story, reactive to an experience, that you get more of a proactive, engaged Lifestyle by Design, that you can more form your outcome. And you can talk more about what you would like to happen. You can be more engaged, involved, and decisive about what you want your life to be like, because it becomes a clean slate in a way if you get rid of those old stories. And that's like one of my favorite questions to ask. And I had this the other day with a client where they're, you know, there's some stress in their life right now. And they're still grief regarding a loss of a family member from a while back. But the question I challenged them on was, is there a better and healthier way for you to honor that lost loved one than the way you're doing right now? Because if this is how you are honoring them, why do you have to suffer too, in order to honor someone's memory? Or— yeah, right, right. If you're— if you haven't been feeling well, why do you need to stay not feeling well in order to honor the fact that you once didn't feel well, right? And it's still in relationship to that. And I love this. And I got this when I did my hypnosis training with Dr. Douglas Flemmons, who's an LMFT. And really, I mean, cool stories just coming out of his mouth all the time. And I remember him sharing the idea of like languaging. I'm 99% sure it was for men, but it was about the idea of smokers and nonsmokers, right? So if you have a person who's never smoked a cigarette, they're still called what? A nonsmoker, right? So when did smoking become the dominant, you know, the dominant language, right? So, so think about someone who's trying to move away from something, right? Cancer-free, disease-free, you're still, right, smoke-free, uh, you know, alcohol-free, right? You're still identifying that anchor relationship to what was, which is the heavier weightier meaning versus creating the idea of like a clean air breather versus a lung Luther.

Yeah.

Ooh. Right.

So, so words, when it even comes to our emotional process, has dominant heavy factors that we have to really change our languaging and our relationship to the theme of whatever that challenge is.

Yes.

And redefine it and re-narrate it at a whole different level.

I am loving everything you're saying right now, and I'm getting so many ideas just as you're talking. You know, it's— language is one of the most important things I work on with my clients.

It's one of the—

it's— I dedicate a few weeks on it, to it in my course. It's when I made the decision to heal, I had to take the words MS, multiple sclerosis symptoms, had to completely remove them from my vocabulary. And it's so interesting because this was all I knew. I grew up with it. It's all I knew. I was the MS girl, you know, and I was going to suddenly like not use these words. And it's so interesting when you see, when I get to watch clients go through that process also and start to learn to figure out language and how to navigate. And it's actually becomes very fun because people start to have a good time with it. They start to get creative with it. You know, one of my clients always says, I had a neurological incident. And then she'll kind of describe the rest of it as like, and then I went on to have an adventure and today I'm fine. You know, and I was just like—

It was a blip on the radar.

Yeah.

It was a blip on the radar. And people, you know, some people are wondering, well, what kind of neurological incident? And she'll just be like, it was just an adventure that my body had to go on and that's it. And she has so much fun with it. And I love that, you know, and she's literally ignored anytime a doctor provided a label or a definition. And I firmly believe that made all the difference in her healing.

You know, so, but that's the goal that we want to, we want to help empower people to get to with their languaging. And we do it in some ways. And I do have this theory that there are so many categories in our life that we are empowered over. And there are many categories in our life that we still play victim to. And our job is to consistently, maybe annually as we're in the new year, right, of 2021 right now, is to figure out like, what are the things like we're kicking butt in? Like, these are the things that I have no excuses about. I have no negative stories about. I'm not, you know, I'm totally in proactive mode. Everything is flowing about that.

Yeah.

No fear. Right. It's all positive. And then there are the parts of our lives that we're, you know, whether it's physical health, emotional health, relationship, financial, whatever. But what are the subcategories in that where we're stuck? And it wasn't for this thing happened to me, or if it wasn't for that person hurting me, or if it wasn't for that financial decision I made, or if it wasn't for that business partner.

Right.

That's still victim. Mode. So I want to challenge people out there to create a list, right? What are the stories that you are feeling? What are the experiences of your life that you're feeling super empowered in? And what are the stories? What are the experiences in your life that there's still blame of anything outside of you taking accountability for you consciously or unconsciously partnering with whatever that experience was?

Yeah.

Unconsciously is still happening as an agreement.

Yeah.

I, I, that is so important. It's, it's really, really crucial. And, you know, victimhood is such a big part of all of this. It's part of healing from grief, from loss. It's absolutely part of healing from chronic illness. And what I love about this exercise that you're suggesting of making this list, I think it's also really important to take a look at the environment and look at what's going on in the community, look at what's going on in society. There is such a powerful, intense narrative for victimhood that is especially happening right now, and for blame. And, and it's, it to, to, to take the step back and be able to look at it and list it and, and to just say like, is that empowering? Is that how I want to feel? Does that make me feel good to think about whose fault this is?

And you know, who did what to this one or that one?

And especially, you know, we're living through a pandemic. Mm-hmm. It's a really intense time to be alive, a really intense time to be alive. There's a lot of fear. There's a lot of fear of our own body. There's a lot of sense of things happening to me and I'm the victim and I'm powerless.

And to stop and say, like, that's a narrative. And, and even though it's all on the news all day long, not that I watch the news, but you know, that it's, it's happening all around me. You still have a choice and to take that step back and say, okay, I'm going to look at this in my own life as an individual. Where is this inside of me? Me, but also what am I consuming that is furthering a narrative of victimhood? And is it making me feel good? Probably not.

Right.

And willingness to be engaged. Like, as I was, I didn't even find out what was going on in the Capitol till like 4:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, right? Yesterday.

Yeah.

And it was like, wow, this is crazy. And like, I see people in like Facebook groups, like on my therapist Facebook group, I'm canceling the rest of my day. I can't handle this. Okay, like, I'm not gonna judge it.

Right, right.

But I'm like, even more so, like, we got to get our stuff together and be like, well, we're putting that much attention to what you have no control over, and, and letting that control our day, when our job is to be of service. Yes, you have to do self-care and everything like that. And I sometimes, I guess, I don't know if I want to make sure I'm not sounding judgmental about it.

But I think it's—

oh, go ahead.

Sorry.

But I think like, then they're like, well, I'm gonna take off What you call it? Day— Inauguration Day. And I'm like, why? You know, I'm like, I went on Facebook afterwards for a couple minutes and I'm like, at a certain point I'm like, okay, I'm getting off Facebook because I can feel that I might want to respond to someone's comment. And once I realized that I wanted to get involved in it is the moment where I decided it's not going to be healthy for me to do that because I have no power and no say of what's going on. And even if I did have power and say, it still doesn't make me right about it. So I had to choose that I wanted to feel better in that moment than deciding to weigh in on groupthink, which really is destructive anyway, at a certain point, no matter which way you go in this issue.

No matter which way, right? Because, and I love how you put that. It's like, you don't have power or control over that situation. But the moment you start to engage, it has power over you. And people can just lose themselves in that process. And so I think it's a balance between, you know, I also, I look at these, I look at people who respond in the way that you were just describing. And I think to myself, you know, part of me thinks to myself, that's not, your clients need you right now. That you need to be the model of, you need to show that there's containment. That what's happening on the other side of the country, that's what's happening. Even if it's down the block from you. I have a client who's a couple blocks away and I immediately reached out and said like, You gotta go on to extra self-care right now, girl, you know? So, but to be the model and the example of containment, and this is something really important to me. I don't think therapists do this enough. Just because we have a license does not mean we should have the responsibility to talk to another person through a crisis. You should, I always tell them that you have to shop around. You should ask your therapist how they take care of themselves. Because what— that example you just gave me doesn't sound to me like self-care. It really doesn't. The person—

this—

the, the therapist who is centered and who's grounded and who's managing their energy and who is staying in high vibration is going all in that day, is going to be like, my clients need me even more today, and I'm going to show up as my best because this is how healing happens, right? This is what they're going to need right now more than anything. And Yeah, so—

And we also have to play the long game, right? This is all short-term turmoil when it happens, and we know this happens and happens by the clock, and it's predictable at some level. So yet I don't know why so many people are shocked by what's going on, again, on both sides of the coin, right? When we look at human history— We've been doing this for 10 months now. Well, and we've been doing this for thousands and thousands of years. Also, yes, thank you. So there's nothing that's going on shocks me. Does my heart have compassion for the people that are being injured and been hurt by these things. Yes. Right. But it doesn't shock me. And maybe that's not a good thing either. But I think, right, I'm looking at things and what's the long-term play? Because we do take a self-centric perspective of it's happening to me versus I'm a blip on the radar when it comes to the long-term play of the universe as a whole. And right, and everybody's, well, I need to make sure this is okay for my great-grandchildren. But so is the other side. They're making sure it's okay for their great-grandchildren too. So, you know, I think we're being very short-sighted when it comes to our emotional vantage point. I think we're being short-sighted when it comes to our health vantage point, because we haven't even gotten into— and I think there's going to have to be a round 2 of this conversation because I know that there, you know, the talk about epigenetics and emotional— genetic expression based on emotions and how that affects our healing. I love that other stuff. So yeah, so So I'm committed to, you know, us having a part 2.

Fun.

To this process. And in the meanwhile, what I want people to know is how the heck can they reach you?

Oh my gosh, amazing. Okay, I'm gonna just take one more minute and just respond to something you just said because it's so fantastic. You know, you're saying they're looking at what's happening outside and they're taking it self-centric. Well, what you can pass on to your grandchildren is how you respond to that moment because your panic actually gets stored in your cells, in your genes, and it, it will carry on to the third generation.

So that's that famous study.

Yeah.

Yes. The best thing you can do for your grandchildren is learn to manage your own emotions. It doesn't mean if you are freaking out, be with it, show up for yourself, learn how to manage that. So I had to say that because I just thought that was so important. Um, how can people find me? So you can find me at kaleyzee.com, K-A-L-E-Y-Z-E.com. I'm not sure when this is going to air, but I have a new course starting in a couple weeks. And if you, if you want to share the link, I'll be happy to offer your audience a discount. Especially because, I mean, if they're listening to all of this goodness every day, then they're— I'm going to have so much fun with them. So I want them in the class. It's called Get Your Health Back. And it just teaches— it gives everyone the foundation of what I did to get well, to get healthy. And you can follow me on social, on Instagram. I'm @kayleezaytoonyofficial. I realize that's hard to spell, so probably just check it out in the show notes.

Exactly. So, right, guys, we'll put it up all there. There's so much good stuff. There's so much more to tackle, which she and I are going to do again in the near future. And in the meanwhile, obviously, as always, if you've gotten any value out of this episode, please, please, please leave us a starred and written review, most specifically on iTunes. That helps us get this and other episodes out in front of other people who are like-minded, as well as people who would benefit from it. So if you know someone who's gone through chronic illness, they've gone through the loss of a loved one, this episode specifically is incredible, plus all the other NET episodes. We just had Dr. Scott Walker, the founder of NeuroEmotional Technique, a few episodes. We're gonna have Dr. Dan Monte, who's the chair of the Integrative Medicine Department at Jefferson Medical, who has been in the documentary What the Bleep and is also one of the NET researchers. And we just recorded an episode with him, and what's going on over there in the integrative medicine clinical research world will be coming out in the next number of weeks. So anything that's related to not just, you know, the psychology, the spirituality, the natural and alternative wellness, but also the entrepreneurship side, this is the go-to podcast. So please, please, please, you know, the only thing we need is you guys getting benefit from this and connecting with us and leaving us, you know, and sharing, leaving us positive review and sharing this episode. So Kaylie, thank you so much for our time today.

And Jason, thank you. This was so much fun. This was so much fun. Thank you. And I can't wait to keep talking.

Yeah. So definitely guys, stay tuned and please subscribe so you don't miss part 2. Yeah, when we get together and hang out again.

Amazing.