You Winning Life Podcast hosted by Jason Wasser, LMFT with guest Dana Cavalea: Habits of a Champion

So welcome back, everybody. Today's guest is Coach Dana Cavalier. He is the former director of strength and conditioning and performance for the New York Yankees. He helped lead the team to the world championship in 2009, and that same year he was awarded the Nolan Ryan Award, which was given to the top strength and performance coach in Major League Baseball. He's also now the author of an incredible book called Habits of a Champion: Nobody Becomes a Champion by Accident. In addition to his on-field coaching, he also works with athletes, consultants to companies, organizations, some of America's top CEOs, executives, Wall Street fund managers, and traders, and helps them to optimize their performance, productivity, and sales. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today.

Cool. Thanks for having me, Jason Wasser.

So my pleasure. So first of all, right off the bat, like I always love the backstory because we know like, especially when it comes to the world of athletic performance, there's always some really interesting story, how someone got discovered, how someone found out that they were passionate about what they're doing, why they picked that sport. And, and, and so I'm really curious for you, how did all of this get started that you went into the athletic training side? And knowing whether, right now I'm assuming that you're, there was some level of being an athlete in your life, but knowing that you wanted to be on the service side of everything.

Well, listen, I was an underperforming player. That's how we become coaches. No, but in all seriousness, I, you know, in my journey, I always wanted to be a ballplayer myself. I grew up in New York, grew up on Long Island, about an hour and change outside of Yankee Stadium. And one of my greatest joys as a kid was going with my father to Yankee Stadium. And, you know, my parents are both teachers, so when I went to the stadium, you know, we would park like 5 miles away because it was cheaper, and then we'd go sit at the top of the stadium and watch the planes go by and a ball game. So we used to name tail numbers, and we'd also get to watch the ball game at the same time. We were sitting so high. So, you know, I, I very quickly loved the energy of Yankee Stadium. I always loved playing the game because it was Baseball is an underdog's game. You're going to fail so much more than you're going to succeed, and you still have to maintain yourself, maintain your composure, and, and really show up and not batter yourself because of those failures. So baseball teaches you that if you're going to succeed, you're also going to have to fail. And I loved all of these aspects of the game, but there's one thing I really loved about the game, and that was practice, and I loved the training. And at times I would like the practice and the training more so than the game, especially when I was struggling at the game. So anyway, I, I fell in love with the game at a young age, and one of my dreams was to figure out how to get on that field with the New York Yankees. And when I decided to go to college, I did a year at a school, Queens College in New York, just outside of the city. And I hated it. I hated being there. I enjoyed the, you know, being a part of the baseball team, but I hated everything else. I wasn't a— definitely not a city guy. I liked going, but I loved going back out to the suburbs. So I ended up telling my mom and my dad, I got to get out of here, and I decided to go to the University of South Florida in Tampa, where there's palm trees, there's pools on campus,. And at the same time, and the beach, and the beach, and there's some great athletes down here. And where I grew up, you never saw a pro athlete. I mean, we were idolizing pro athletes from like 30 years ago that just happened to be from, you know, Long Island where I was from. So I went to the USF. I started interning with the football team at the University of South Florida and wasn't a football guy at all, but I cut my teeth in my profession of strength and conditioning and athletic and really personal development at the University of South Florida. I made that choice, beautiful campus, very sports-oriented school, up-and-coming, amazing facilities, and the New York Yankees were about 5 miles away from my university, so when they came to town, I knew that I would be heading up to that field to watch them play, and that's really, I would say that's where my journey started. It started by one February day heading up to watch the team practice. And here I am, just a 19-year-old kid with a flip phone, camera phone, uh, holding it up to a chain-link fence and taking pictures of players like Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera and Roger Clemens. And I thought it was the coolest thing in the world. I was sending them home, and my day got even cooler because I went back to my internship at USF, and the head strength coach said to me, hey Dana, can I talk to you? I I got to talk to you in my office for a minute. And I said, oh man, that's not good news. I've been called into many principals' offices in my life, and that's not good news. But this time it was. And he said, hey, I just got a call from the strength coach with the Yankees, and he's looking for a guy to hand out towels, hand out waters, and watch the weight room while he's on the field. Would you have any interest in that? And I said, absolutely. When do I start? I just got back from there. And he's like, well, you start tomorrow. And I said, all right. I'm going. And then literally the next day I drove my beat-up hoopty Mazda 929 up to the stadium. I parked up front that time because the day before, again, I was following in my dad's footsteps and parking 2 miles away for cheap to free parking. I walk in the main office and the lady says, hey, are you Dana Cavalieri? I said, yeah, that's me. So she throws a lanyard around my neck with a credential, C for clubhouse, F for field access, walks me into the training room. Throws me in Yankee gear, next thing you know they walk me out on that field that I was taking pictures of a day earlier. So it was amazing how one day you're on one side of the fence and the next day you're on the other side. Crazy story.

Crazy story. And what year, what year was that?

Um, that was in 2002.

Okay. Okay. So what stands out to me most about that, that story is that it wasn't that I'm not getting the job of actually training them. I'm not actually going to be, but it's like, what do I, What's that entry level that you said yes to? That was EarthForce, like, that you had, like, okay, if I start here, I know I can have that wedge into the community that I want to be on.

Yeah, I mean, that's like my whole mentality in life, even today. Like, I'm a total junkyard dog. I'm a bottom feeder. I'll go to the bottom and climb all the way up. And, you know, I don't mind, you know, being that way. I always say one of my lines is I'm a man of the people. You know, I work with CEOs and billionaires and team owners, And I work with some people that are just starting out in the business world or the athletics world. And I work the whole spectrum. And because I'm a person that's worked the whole spectrum virtually, so I love it. You know, and when you think you're too good for the hand-to-hand combat street fight, you beat yourself. So, you know, there's a lot of— I call them elitists out there that say, well, I already did that and I shouldn't be having to do that now. And, um, you gotta do it and don't be afraid. And don't, don't believe— Derek Jeter told me this— don't believe your own headlines. So we create a lot of headlines in our own head. That's why they call them headlines, I think. But, um, if you start to believe them, you can get in big trouble. So I always play from behind, you know, and I always tell people too, even like financially, I'll clean out my accounts and move the money over. So it looks like I have nothing. And that keeps me hungry. Not that I don't have it, but I move it away. So I don't see it. It's not in my primary operating account. So I love that street fight and that dogged mentality.

So at that timeframe, right, you're, you're in college. What were some of the headlines that you were telling yourself that you had to get out of your own way? About? Because here you are right now, all these people that you idolize that were your role models, athletic, right? You know, people that you looked up to. Were there some stumbling blocks still in your own head that you had about like, how am I going to talk to them? How am I going to coach them? How am I going to work with them? Was there anything like that going on?

Yeah, I still have those today, right? It's always like, man, I've got to talk to so-and-so on the phone. I've never— I mean, am I ready for this? And I just say, well, do it anyway. I'm really big on jumping out of the plane and hoping that the chute works. So my whole life has been sort of this repetitive pattern. And I'm like, you know, instead of playing defense against that pattern, I always walk into it and I just say, listen, for me, I mean, I've tried to correct these patterns in my life. And I realized that in my attempt to correct them, I oftentimes lose pieces of myself that I like. So I don't try to correct anymore. I actually embrace and walk towards, and I bring all my shit with me, and I say, here we go. You like, here I am, and here we are, and here's all my experiences— good, bad, ugly— and I wear it all on my sleeve. And, you know, love me or hate me, that's, that's what you're getting. And, uh, and it's worked well because it allows you to be so— I'm not inhibited, I'm not intimidated, and I'm extremely open, and there's no topic that's off limits.

So can you identify, like, throughout the people that you've been working with, because we're going to flash forward a little bit now that you're doing a lot of coaching and personal development with people, which you've always been doing, but now more specifically in the business arena, is there a certain personality predisposition or certain belief predispositions that you see that right off the bat you're like, okay, this is going to be an easier person to work with versus a more challenging person to work with based on what they're playing in their head or the story that they're telling themselves?

Well, the easy— For me, what I find is a common thread is that most people don't want to look bad. So they spend a lot— anybody that's like, hey, I'm worried about the externals, what other people think, they don't want to look bad. They usually come in to me, they have either high stress, high anxiety, or they're dealing with, you know, hey, I got this extra 30 pounds. So those are the easiest ones for me. The harder ones are the ones that come in tough. And like they have no problems or they have nothing going on and they're sort of just, you know, doing great. And I'm saying, well, then why are we working together? So I always know that there's a little bit something. So I have my chisel out and sometimes I'm always just chiseling away, but we— and then we end up getting to something. And a lot of times, you know, some of the people I work with, they don't have the— they don't have the trust up front. But that's where again, I use a lot of my baggage and tools to create immediate trust. So I look at myself as, hey, there's not a room that I'm— that I can— can't survive in because I'm myself and I'm not there to please everybody, really anybody. I'm just there to be. And the room sort of— when you are who you are and you know how to be, the room adapts to you and you don't have to adapt to the room.

So would you say that's kind of the underpinning biggest challenge of persons trying to figure out their self-authenticity, who they really truly are when they shake off all of the stories that they've been carrying, whether it's trauma, whether it's family dynamics, spiritual stuff, whatever it may be. But to unpackage all of that stuff to get to truly who they authentically are is probably the end result that we're— that you and I really are trying to get to.

Yeah. I think that's where somebody reaches sort of peak for themselves and they could finally say, man, Like, I'm comfortable. I'm comfortable in myself. I can't tell you how many leaders I'm dealing with right now. Like, you know, we're recording this during, you know, a pretty hostile time, and there's leaders that are saying, "Hey, I'm being forced to make statements on something I don't believe in." And I said, "Well, if you're going to do that, your journey is not going to get easier. It's only going to get harder." So you got to walk towards who you are, what you believe in, and you got to own it. And when you could sort of, um, you know, make the crowd go dark and not worry what they think— listen, people are going to love you, people are going to hate you no matter what. You could have the perfect lines. I've seen Derek Jeter, who's, you know, loved by all. I've seen people turn on him. You know, he's always said the right thing, he's always done the right thing. We've seen that all the time in our culture. So at the end of the day, why are we so worried about pleasing other people? And why are we comparing ourselves to other people too?

So what's interesting, right, because that metaphor of like the fair weather fan, right? We're going to be on the bandwagon when they're great and we're going to give them crap when they're not, which is not just the New York Mets fans, by the way. That's what it's— yeah. So it's funny because I grew up in South Florida and we didn't have, we didn't have the Marlins growing up. So I actually grew up and I was born in Scranton, Pennsylvania. I actually grew up like I was a hardcore, hardcore, hardcore Yankees fan growing up. And it's funny, for my bar mitzvah, my theme was actually baseball. And right, the spring training used to be here in Fort Lauderdale back in the day, and all I wanted was a picture with Don Mattingly, you know, so that I could have her— I don't know if you ever saw like the signing boards, right, at like, you know, for you. Yeah, like mine's like in my little Yankees, you know, outfit.

There you go.

But like, right, then we had the Marlins, and then like, oh, okay, I guess now I'm a Marlins fan, right? But I wonder like that mentality of like the fair weather fan, that fickle— when things are good and it's in my favor and it makes me feel good, I'm on your side. We're now seeing exponentially in society, like, if you strike out once, you're the worst player ever, right? Is what's happening on a macro societal level right now, right? And then that cancel— the cancel culture or whatever it may be. I think that's been like a theme that's been running in sports forever. In athletics forever.

It is. And, and again, what you see is the ones that's like, you know, moving away from like the fan side but going to the player side, it's like the player that owns who he is is the one that, you know, again, when you see a player that's been in the game for 10+ years, you see a common thread. They are not looking for your approval. They are fully convicted. They know what they're doing. They know who they are. They're actually the easiest guys to coach. People People tell me all the time, "Man, it must have been really hard, you know, with all those egos and all those guys that make hundreds of millions of dollars." I said, "No, they were the best. It was the players that hadn't made it yet that are still trying to figure out, 'Who am I? What do I do? Am I doing this right?'" Those were the hard players because they would come in as one person on Monday as Jekyll and Hyde on the next day, and they'd flip back and forth, and they'd go on a streak as one person and then turn into somebody else, and it was this constant sort of, you know, transformation in and out of the cocoon. And I'm like, that's a hard player to work with. And I see the same thing in business too, by the way. The, the elite performers, the top 1% that I work with, is very different than sort of the bottom 50%.

So how did that transition happen, right? You were working with it with the, with elite performers and then getting into the business world. What was that pivot for you? How did it come about? Um, what were some of the, the easy advantages that you had and what were some of the challenges you had moving into that world?

The easiest advantage I have is I worked with, with the top performing talent in the world, right, that, that had to perform in order to monetize. If the player doesn't perform, I mean, a player's stat line is posted right in front of them every game. It's posted on the television screen for everyone that's watching. So the difference I found between sports and business is that in sports I mean, it's real and it's right in front of you every single day. There's, you know, less— it's just always in front of you. So the players, we train them to not really focus on that, but always to get back to their core. But in business, what I found is there's sort of this— it's like up to— you got a lot of— in business, you could pretty much do whatever you want before you— you know, you could hide a lot. That's what I'm looking to say. In business you can hide, where in sports you can't. So I found it very easy, but I— but how I cut my teeth out in the business world was, you know, Yankee Stadium or any professional ballpark, there's always these like stanchions that would block off VIP like guests and batting practice. So there'd be the shell where guys would be hitting, and then there'd be these stanchions where you can hide behind or stand behind, excuse me. Um, at times you want to hide behind them, but, uh So there'd always be these VIPs in the business world that would be there with their families. So I realized that, hey, I get to watch these guys that are hitting. I'm with them all day. I'm flying around the country with them. I'm sitting with them on the plane. Why do I need to watch them hit? So let me go BS with these people that are behind here. And I really found it entertaining. And then like, you know, if I had a ball, I'd flip one to the little kid and I'd start chatting. And I'm a social guy. So one day I meet a guy that says, um, hey, uh, do you train rich Jewish guys? And I said, well, it depends how much you're paying. And he says, well, I'd be very interested in getting trained, you know. So I started— he was my first client. He ends up owning a professional sports team himself. He's a multi-billionaire. And, and we kicked off like literally just like that. And, um, and we've remained the best of friends, and we still— I— we still work together today. But that's— that's— that was actually my first step into it. And then I opened a bunch of training facilities in the New York metro area. So we used to have, you know, basically a VIP of, you know, list coming in of, uh, you know, New York sort of business elites. And they all wanted to— that our tagline was train like a pro. They all wanted to train like a pro and experience what that was like. So that's how I, that's how I started.

So interesting, because like in those, in those moments, just to sit and like schmooze with them, right, in the very New York way, did you know that it was going to become that next big massive phase in your life in that moment? Or were you already kind of like, okay, I know where I'm gonna head, I know where I'm gonna— like, you know, was there that foreshadowing of like, I know this will eventually transition into something else, or I always want to stay with the baseball team? You know, was there an out for you? That you are already planning?

Yeah, it's an interesting question. I always love, like, I love development and I love coaching. So for me, it was less about sort of, you know, is it in baseball, is it in business? Like, I even now, I go in between sports and business all day long. And I like that because you're taking lessons from both and, you know, almost cross-pollinating between both. So when I go in and work with a company and/or I go in and work with the CEO, it's a very different language. Than they're used to. Like, I, I get— I can get aggressive with them, and they're not used to that because nobody tells CEOs what to do. Their own people lie to them all day. And for me, I always say, listen, when you're working with a, with a high-level, high-performing alpha athlete, it's like wrestling an alligator, and you can't be afraid to jump in there and wrestle that thing. So it's the same with these CEOs and ultimately, you know, I've always enjoyed it, but to know like, hey, I'm, you know, this is gonna lead to what I do in the future. No, I didn't fully know that, but I always knew that developing, development and coaching would be a part of my future. And I see it being there for quite a long time.

That's awesome. So let's get into some nitty-gritty tactics, right? The name of your book is Habits of a Champion. No one becomes a champion by accident. So right off the bat, what's the number one thing that is like your most common, you got to get this clean in your life or the people you work with? Like what would be the top thing that you say like everybody has to clean up on their side of the street? Yeah.

I find a common thread again is, um, you know, there's one of the chapters in my book is never get too high and never get too low. And I find that like when things are going well, people are feeling amazing. And when things go low, they get really down. So what I try to teach them is working what I call your midline, working and coming from a position of all time, at all times, from a position of neutrality. So when things go well, listen, you're expecting them to go well. And when things go poorly, well, you're expecting that as well because success and failure travel together. So there shouldn't be any surprises. You know, in every business it's cyclical, in life it's cyclical, people come, people go. Business comes, business goes. So you got to know the rules of the game in which you play. So you got to know the rules of life and you got to know the rules of business and you have to know the rules of sport. And when you know the rules of the game, you're less apt to fly up and fly down, fly up and fly down. So when we ride the midline, it's not saying numb yourself or, you know, work from a position of, you know, where nothing excites you and you know, you don't get pissed over anything. It's just getting you to understand a full perspective of what's going on in the world around you and that you are in control of that.

And how applicable right now as you're watching and continuing to work with athletes and the people you're coaching, how, how can we pivot and accept that right now when resources around us might not be as accessible where safety on multiple levels for multiple people is a threat. How do we best internalize that and then play with that and apply it?

Yeah. So, so one of my other, you know, sayings is you got to play offense at all times. So I don't believe getting in, getting into a defensive posture helps you. Right. So the way I always see things, I always look at things in, in lines. There's a line from where I am to where I want to go. There's a line from where we are, me and my team, and where we want to go. So anything that takes us off that line is, is an issue. So I talk a lot about even in times of opposition, what is the opportunity that we see? And as a leader, as a, as a part of being a part of a team, it's your job, I've always found, to reinforce what our opportunity is, what it is we're moving towards, and doing your best to not let the outside influence that directionality. So if I'm committed to going there, these things that are going on around us, there's things that are happening. But honestly, like, we've committed as a group to go here. I've committed as the leader of this group to bring you, lead you, and work with you to get here. So if you have a problem, I'm not worried about these people. If you, as a part of my team, have a problem, we will handle that problem together. But all of us collectively are going here, and that is what we have to remember, and that is really, really important. Or else, as a unit, we'll be pushed over here, and then this headline comes out, we're over here. And then this happens and we're over here, and then COVID happens and we're here, and then something comes. And what are we doing? We're not going there. And by going there together collectively as a group, we win because that's what we as a group have decided on is where we're going. And that's the way I, that's the way I look at it in sports and business. And I don't ever change based on what's happening or what I'm told to think or what's being pushed upon, because I've decided with myself, my group, my team, and as our little family that this is where we're going.

I remember sitting like the first 3 weeks of the isolation and the shutdowns, and a few of my friends are like, I pulled everything out of my stock market account and I pulled out my Bitcoin. I'm like, oh my God, like every— like you said, everything is cyclical.

Yep.

And everything will rally and everything will return back to normal. It might be 6 months, it might be a year, might be 2 years, might be 4 years. But we know that it's never been longer than 3 to 4 years. Right. And if they're putting that money in their account and they're not living on it, then they have the time to be patient with it as well. So I see like, right, when we see like when toilet paper went off the shelf and what was the next thing? It was banana bread, right? All the ingredients for banana bread, right? The shelf, right? I don't know if that was where it was on your—

I didn't hear that, but I'll take your word for it.

And then in New York, all my friends were doing sourdough bread.

That's the new thing in the New York though. Okay.

It's all the— now all this stuff, right? So like, it's like became like this, like I have to get these things before it disappears from my life. Like depression.

It's like depression living.

It's depression living of the lack that none of us really have lack.

Yeah.

In this presence. We just have to learn how to— like I'm learning from this paradigm of like, holy crap, like we were talking before, like my lease is up at the end of the month. Have I really been wasting X amount of dollars a month on having an office?

Yeah, it's interesting that you're saying that because the first week that things sort of went on lockdown, what all— a lot of my CEOs did was we brought everything internal and we said, okay, first question, where are we running fat? And you'll be amazed. I'm amazed at how much money collectively they've sort of freed up And they were just wasting, blatantly wasting it on subscriptions they've had for 10 years that they haven't used in 5, you know. Um, employees, honestly. And, and listen, part of the— again, remember I said the rules of business— part of it is to realize as a leader where you're running fat. Who's helping us win and who's not? Who do we need and who don't we need? So that's just a part of the process. So I think what this did was it dialed people in and back to the fundamentals, right? In order to make a great play in the infield, you have to be able to feel the ground ball. So we just started taking ground balls again. That's it. We started hitting off the tee again.

I had a conversation with one of my clients earlier, and he's like, I feel really bad for small businesses. And, um, and my, my first question was, as a small business owner, why? Because if they didn't, right, if they went into— well, number one, Should they have been in business in the first place by themselves? Is question number one, right? Do we need another pizza place to open up across the street from all the other pizza places just because they think they have a better pizza? Right. There's a lot of assumptions that we really are just from a business. Forget that. God forbid. I don't want anybody to struggle and not have food and not have health care and their emotions, right, to go off the deep end, especially as a therapist. But, but it is in a way. Discerning the difference between someone who should be doing something as a career versus that this was a hobby that they tried to make a career.

So, so I, I'm with you 100% on that. And, you know, serving a lot of business owners around the country, this— I told them, you hate your— you hate your job anyway. It's because it's not a business, it's a job. It's hell for you. So this is a good time for you to actually Deploy that exit strategy that you have so badly wanted to deploy for years, but you just didn't know when. Well, now when is here. Get out and start asking yourself the question, what do I really want to do with my life? And it certainly isn't what I'm doing now. That's what I found is a very common thread. And you know, people need an event oftentimes to change their life. Most fat guys need a heart attack before they go to the gym and actually do something, you know. So, you know, it's, it's just one of those things. It's so that I, I don't— I look at this as you get to make this time what you want to make it, which goes back to again, where, where are we going? I mean, I can give you countless strategies or, or examples of people that have— are in the best shape of their life right now. They've lost 20, 30 pounds over the past you know, 10, 12 weeks because they stopped lying to themselves and they got to work. And, and other people decided that they weren't going to do that and they gained those 20 to 30 pounds. So life is just, it's based on choices. It's based on habits. It's based on routines. And it's based on the standards in which you hold yourself to.

I think it also has to do with that money mindset, right? How people say that money doesn't change you really, it just amplifies what was organically there. And I think the other side for a crisis, right, will tell you, like, I know that I'm like genetically predisposed to anxiety. And 99% of my day, I'm fine because I'm continuing to be of service.

Right.

And I know that the only thing that's truly really been affected is my sleep schedule. Yeah, I know that as long as there's, there's an old phrase, safe in service. So I know as long as I'm safe, I'm being safe from my side, right? I'm out in public and I'm out in my office. But as long as I'm serving, I know that I'm able to do what I need to do and live in my purpose and my potential on a consistent basis. And how can I do that more? And I think now that the internet has— where I'm giving 3 to 4 classes a week right now, majority of the people, I would say 50%, are in South Florida. And I have people as far away as Brazil coming to my workshops and my classes on a consistent weekly basis that I wouldn't necessarily have thought to pivot to also do the class not just in this small group here, but also put it online. And that's becoming a community. For people.

So which in turn will probably, you know, combat even more anxiousness.

Right. So, so that, and then, and having a community for people who are already feeling disconnected and being part of a person who helped create a community is a really powerful, powerful thing. And I think, right, going back to athletics and going back to business, they're communities and they're communities of people that are like-minded, that are working towards goals. There is usually leaders, hopefully, hopefully those leaders are uplifting and not, You know, it's not the days of George Steinbrenner anymore, you know? Right? And we're still hoping for as continued change evolves in, you know, in the different sporting leagues with whatever's going on and however that's going to be resolved accordingly and appropriately for the— hopefully as a good for all in everybody's mind. But I know like one of the things that you talk about is like some of the myths, some of the BS that's out there. In the coaching/self-development world. So I know we only have a few minutes left, but I'm really curious to hear what those things are that you've come across and that you've learned that you're also trying to debunk.

Yeah, well, I, you know, again, I started off saying that old junkyard dog mentality, and I always say like, I, I have a total chip on my shoulder. I have a total attitude problem, especially as it relates to personal development. And there's nothing that pisses me off more in personal development than when I see people that are trying to help other people bullshitting other people and putting them on these ridiculous, you know, morning routines and schedules that are like, you, you can't— if you're gonna do some of those things, you can't work, you can't have a job because you can't have a 9-hour morning routine. Like, you can't do it. And I see just these gurus in guru land pumping people filled with all of this crap. And actually, that's the reason why I wrote my book Habits of a Champion, because people say, hey, did you ever intend on writing a book? I said no, but I would read books on coaching, personal development, leadership, and I'd say, wait, I work with some of the greatest leaders in the world, some of the highest performing people in the world. They don't do any of this shit.

What—

where are they coming from with this stuff? And what I realized is they were coming from the place and position of I'm going to sell my next product by sort of, you know, you know, just getting people warmed up to these concepts. So it was a straight-up marketing play more so than it was a personal development play.

It was a funnel into their other services.

Exactly.

Versus already having value that they brought to the world. Totally.

So I go out everything the other way. I look at everything that's out there as a tool. Now, who are you? Oh, you're Jason. Jason, tell me about yourself because I want to know what— I want to help you with what you need. So I don't blanket statement. I don't generalize. I don't say everyone's got to meditate this way at this time. I don't do that. I've never coached that way. Coaching is an individualized process. Individuals make up teams, and you must treat every person as an individual because Every person is unique. Are there similarities? Are there common threads? 100%. But that doesn't mean you give every person the same prescription. It does not mean that. And that's what sort of prompted me to write the book. I said, I got to fill this gap with real practical stuff that gives people, you know, truth. And that's, that's, again, it goes back to, you know, listen, I may, may not make it as far as the gurus, but I don't care because I'm always going to be known as the guy that you go to when you want to be shot straight. And I'm blessed that I had the opportunity to work at the level that I worked with the people that I work with. And it's amazing how those at the top think just like I'm explaining. And I, I had a— it's so funny because I had a talk. I was talking with one of my clients, again, the guy that I told you I met at the stadium that day. Multi-billionaire, successful as can be, family man, beautiful person. And I said, hey Daniel, um, have you ever set 5-year goals? And he goes, he goes, I'm lucky if I could set a 5-day goal. And I thought about that and I'm like, there's books on, on like— I had a client tell me that he's working on his 20-year goals. I said, you may not be alive in 20 years. I'm just speaking truth. Why would you waste your time? Why don't you just focus on making today a great successful day? And I know for myself, the only time I get anxious is when I'm too far out in the future. So I don't want to go that far. What if, what if what I'm— my vision for myself today for 20 years is too small? What if I don't even want to do that anymore?

So you will grow and change and life will be different, right?

Humans are not static. We're dynamic. So why don't we just keep embracing that nature?

I remember when I was— it was a few summers ago and I was so— I've been a therapist since 2005 and I got involved in this incredible business community by a person named Rick Sapio, who is a capital venturist who created this business program. He's out in Dallas. It's called Business Finishing School. And he created a beta coaching program and there was a handful of us that were invited to partake, partake in it. And so one of the things that we had to do is we had to come up with certain things about how we're going to go and we're going to broadcast what we're doing. Differently than what we're already doing in our own world. And I said, well, my goal was to be on 20 podcasts in the next year. This was before it was even— I even had the audacity to have my own, right? Who am I, right? I'm just a therapist in this back office in Fort Lauderdale that, like, you know, but it's like, but okay, I want to be on 20 podcasts in the next year. He goes, great, I'm giving you 60 days. So he went from, like, right, he collapsed the time. If you can do that in 12 months, you can do it in 60 days. It's true. And I think that's where our mindset is. Exactly what you're saying is— I want to say, yes, we do need to have long-term rhythms and rituals because if you want to— if you're going to get into shape today and tomorrow, in the next 90 days, you want to continue doing that for the next 10, 15, 20 years. That will hopefully give you the outcome of being alive in 20 years. Right.

Right.

But also at the same time, what are you doing? Which I completely agree with you. Are you putting in all of that today while also maintaining your financial stability and your family stability and your spiritual stability? All those things. How can that fit into the schedule today? Or do you need to reverse engineer that? Which I really do appreciate. And I think that's like what I want everybody to hear is that we may be, so to speak, forced into a different environment over the next number of months. But there are so many ways to take advantage of different ways of thinking and different ways of doing things.

Yeah. And Jason, I want to share this with you. I mean, even for myself, right? I'm the coach. I coach people all day. I used this time to say, all right, I'm getting up at the same time every day. I'm going to sleep at the same time every day. I'm working out at this time every day. And instead of doing my basic gym stuff, what I'm doing is I'm going to engage in this more high-intensity training and boot camp, which I need personally. Just, I was bullshitting myself doing what I was doing prior to. I was going to the gym and I was checking the boxes and I wasn't fat, but I said, now I want to take it to another level. And then I started this show called the Becoming a Champion Show where I interview, uh, celebrities. I enter, uh, you know, from art to entertainment, uh, you know, hedge fund, you know, leaders. And I said, I would not have done this if I wasn't forced to be home.

Yeah.

And, and, and again, that was the sprint. So I'm, I'm a big believer too. I will tell you this on the reverse engineering as well, but I don't reverse engineer 20 years, 5 years. I reverse engineer from the idea that I have today. And I say, what do I want to do now? What am I looking to do right now? And then reverse engineer it, and it always takes you to an action step, right? I have this chart. I'll show it to you. This is my new thing. I love showing this, but I say you're either in one of two states. You're contemplating or you're in a state of action. The action's either positive or negative, and if it's negative, you're going to head back to contemplation. You're going to get frustrated. You're going to do more time in contemplation. You're going to get frustrated. So I got to get you from contemplation to action, to positive action. So you loop up here.

I'm cracking up on this side because literally my post this morning was about not being scripted, right? I don't want to be scripted and that we're all speaking from a script and it's our life experiences that have led us directly to the place we are now. However, each of us have been playing a very specific role, and the more we become aware, aware of that, the better we will become about changing it. We have to unpack and understand our past. We have to— we have our family history, we have our culture, we have a religion, we have unhealed trauma, all informing us whether we realize it or not. This perspective leads us to respond in a specific way that becomes our script. The more you commit to learning about yourself, personal growth and healing, the more your script can evolve and what story are you willing to let go of so you can start playing a greater role in your life, which is that dynamic that you're playing, right? You're either stuck in that and you're in contemplation. Wait, you're, you're, you're contemplating that which you don't even know that you're contemplating or you're in action mode.

Yeah. What if they, what if they say this? What if they say that?

Uh-huh.

What if they don't say either of those things? You know, just so, just that's what I'm saying is like, I'm telling people, wherever you are right now, like, go forward. And even if you get smacked right in the face, that's a part of the game. And if you were to profile any highly successful person, whatever you deem that success to be, that person will tell you the beatings they took on the way to get there. And that's just what it is. I mean, life is not going to treat you kindly all the time.

But if the expectation is that you're going to be handled with these soft marshmallowy gloves, that reality has to be challenged as well. And I think, right, that's the— what's the moral of the story? What's the teachable moment? What's the growth moment? Right. And I think like when you're going back to like baseball at the beginning of our conversation, and we'll end with this, is that baseball is one of the few sports that I think rewards you for getting a hit 3 out of 10 times. And if you get a hit 3 out of 10 times, right, you are going to be making millions of dollars.

Yeah. And, and the, the people in the game that win are the ones that are focused on the 3 and not the 7. They're focused on the 3 times they get a hit, not the 7 times they get out.

Right. And that's it. That's the logic that we need to look at things through, as opposed to— our brain is 4 times as likely to focus on negative than we are as positive.

Yeah, totally. These, you know, even our players, right? We tell them nobody bats 1,000, so stop trying. Don't try to bat 1,000. Is perfection. The greatest ever have never done it. You will not be the first. Okay, so now that you know that, what do we do? The goal is to have competitive at-bats. Only swing at the pitches that you know you could hit or take a good swing on. So you're literally taking your day and your life one at-bat at a time, but more specifically, one pitch at a time. And you can't be afraid to let a pitch go, but you better attack that fastball down the middle and hit it. You know what I'm saying?

Love it. So what an incredible way for us to have it. So, so everybody out there, if you want to hear more from him, please check out Becoming a Champion, which is available on, um, all major podcast platforms. And for sure, for sure, check out the book Habits of a Champion. No one becomes a champion by accident. So Coach Dana Cavalier, thank you again so much for spending time with us, and I very much look forward to hearing continued success and down the road having you back on again.

Yeah, cool. Thanks, Jason Wasser.

All right.

Appreciate it, man.