You Winning Life Podcast with Jason Wasser, LMFT Ep.9-Jim Sheils: The Family Board Meeting

Hey everybody, welcome back. I am here with speaker, author, consultant, owner of a real estate company that has done over $200 million in transactions. Thank you so much for joining us, Jim. Really, really excited to have you here.

Good to see you again, Jason. Thank you.

Thanks. So I know one of the main things that you're doing is really creating more powerful relationships. Entrepreneurs and their children and their families. So please share a little bit about what's going on in your world about that.

Yeah, I saw years ago a gap between this success on the balance sheet and success at home. In fact, there was, there was a huge gap between those two things. And it didn't matter if you were middle-sized entrepreneur, very successful, or ultra successful. I know I've shared that story with you. What really changed me was a period in my life almost 10 years ago where I was sent an article, uh, and it was about a guy named Isaacson. And Isaacson's claim to fame is he was Steve Jobs' biographer, and he spent the final days with Steve Jobs. And this article where he'd been interviewed by Time magazine came out, and what it basically said was Steve Jobs spent his final days surrounded by close family and friends— I mean, by close family, uh, and used the chance for final interviews to explain to his wife and children why he wasn't always there for them. And Jobs was quoted as saying, "I wasn't always there for my kids, and I wanted to explain why and for them to understand." And this guy Isaacson, I don't know him at all, but he fired a question at Steve and said, "Steve, are you glad you had a family? Are you glad you had kids?" And that's a tough question in a moment like this, but right away Steve fired back and he said, "It's 10,000 times better than anything I've ever done." And the powerful thing for me was No one was talking about this, 'cause Steve had just passed away 5 days earlier, you know, it was all through the news and media, and I saw all the murals, all the candlelight vigils, the incredible stories of entrepreneurial adventures that Steve had taken, but no one was talking about this. And that gave me kind of an aha, because I was going through a big time in my own life where I said, okay, what about, we all have the final curtain, and I sure as hell don't think Steve Jobs thought it was coming that early for him, people can dismiss the lesson like I tried to, saying, "Oh, what do you expect? Steve Jobs had a reputation for being a jerk." But I also know that it's said a man or a woman receives extreme clarity at the end of their life. And I know there were plenty of times in my career where I set these benchmarks and then I would spend more time with my family. Then I'd be more present. And that hit a light switch for me. It was a big time in my life. I was in the process of adopting my two oldest sons. I was reviving my real estate investment company that had come near bankruptcy in the 2008 meltdown, and I had just been approved to donate a kidney to my father. So, when all these things happen, you don't know when these trigger events are going to happen, Jason. I had already seen that there were issues with this guy standing on stage with these incredible stories and thought leader followings, but when I got to see him behind the stage, since I got involved with this at a young age, their family life was nonexistent. And that scared me. So I wanted to have things different. And that's kind of the work that I began to do to make sure that how do we support and inspire entrepreneur families so that they can be successful in their pursuits in the business field, but also successful at home, truly connected, truly enjoying each other, you know, not having those regrets of trying to squeeze in time at the end. No one wants that. So how do we fill in those gaps and create a better family life.

Well, as you know, I'm a marriage and family therapist, and when I have on my intake form what is it that they want to accomplish when they come in and work with me, majority of the time the word communication shows up in the goal space.

Oh yeah. Right?

And what does this mean that this idea of communication— we all communicate, it doesn't mean we communicate effectively, but it's so interesting that we have this like generic idea of like, if only I can— like, if we have better communication, but no one really knows how to do it, what communication really means. So the concept of like how much time we're really spending with our family, really relating, because I know we do— and we talk about the Five Love Languages and the way that people connect with each other. But the truest level is like that really eye-to-eye interactive, like you and I get to do right now, even though we're a couple hundred miles away. But let's talk a little bit more about that. I know there's a really fantastic research study about that that you like talking about.

Well, just to support what you're talking about, that communication, you want to talk about kind of the golden soil that will grow things. Yeah, you're right. Just open, vulnerable, meaningful conversation and communication is key. But we get so bottled up, stay on the surface, not sure how to do it. It gives this block. And when that block occurs, Jason, I'm sure you've seen this with, you know, your many, many years. But it was funny when I started to interview entrepreneurs about this, you know, you're feeling connected, you're not communicating, what's going on? Two dominating emotions always take over: guilt and depression. And those are very heavy emotions. And like I've told you, you've seen me speak on stage, I was my own interviewee. That's how I felt. And what I've learned is there's— if I'm always feeling guilty and depressed, there's no way I can do my best at work or at home. So which study were you talking about? Because there's a couple of different studies.

Parent-child interaction.

Yeah, well, the parent-child interaction, as we've talked about, there is, there is a deficit of time spent and an even bigger deficit of quality time spent, which we can talk about the difference. But I think it was about 4 minutes a day the average parent spends with their child, especially a full-time person out of the house working, and it could be even less. And that's a scary statistic for two reasons. Not only the now, but also it's, I think it was almost 85% of all quality time that opportunities for the average person that we have with our children occurs by the end of their 18th summer. As you know, as our thing, the 18th summer, and if people argue that and I say, great, argue it all you want, Those are the statistics. It just shows, of course, they're your kids after the 18th summer, but there is such a golden opportunity of time and influence and connection that can be made in those first 18 summers that people overlook. And if they're only spending 4 minutes a day and then all of a sudden the 18th summer's good and they said, "Well, I was building my business for 10 years, then I was going to get back to it." Well, they've lost a major opportunity and their kids feel like strangers. And they wonder, well, yeah, I kind of stepped out of family life for 5 to 7 years, but, you know, why can't I communicate? And that's what we want to do. I'm not— I'm the last person, as you know, to take away ambition. But we have to figure out how to put pilings. You know, you and I live at the beach now. Those houses on the beach usually are in the Outer Banks of North Carolina. They have those big pilings, right, that hold the house there, that if the tide comes in, we need to put some serious pilings to hold our family life together along the way. And if you don't, it washes away. And we're saying, what happened? Why am I feeling guilty and depressed? So I encourage people, just remember those two things. Are you one of those people spending 4 minutes a day? Do the math. Where are you in the 18 summers? You know, I adopted my two oldest sons, I have 4 kids, at 7 and 5. And a mentor of mine taught me that. And I go, man, you think here's a little 7-year-old. I'm only down to 11 summers. That doesn't seem that much. And it gave me a positive kick to the pants. And that's what I think we're trying to do here today. And I'm— I do know by the end of this, Jason, people have practical things they're gonna walk away with.

Absolutely. And it's— I just saw a research study. I don't remember the exact minutes, but someone sent this to me about social media and how we as business owners should be integrating our personal life onto social media. And the numbers that showed up are like the average adult is spending about an hour a day on WhatsApp communicating. About, give or take, an hour on Instagram, and yet that 4 or 5 minutes that we spend with our children—

yeah, imbalance.

And yet we give our kids, if we have kids, right, those who have kids, we give them crap for spending all their time on social media or on technology, but yet we as adults are just as guilty, but we blame them for their lack of connection to us. But it's definitely a reciprocal process that I'm seeing over and over and over in my practice. Yeah, as you're speaking and you're engaging with everybody as well.

Very much so. We did a retreat about 2 years ago with Dr. Shefali from Conscious Parenting, and we had the kids lined up on one side and the adults on one side, and it was a fun game switching back and forth who does this or who does that. And then she said, how many, you know, parents think their kids are on their electronics or phones? And all the parents stepped forward, and I was off to the side. And then Dr. Shefali said, okay kids, that's fine. It was— everyone's laughing, kind of said, how many of you think your parents are hypocrites? And there were some young kids in the room, you know, under the age of 10. They're like, what's a hypocrite? She explained it and they all went, oh yeah, and they raised their hand. And it was everyone, all the parents went, oh my gosh, wow. Well, I hear it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's one of the biggest parts of our work is this this— what I've coined as intermittent tech fasting. Because I'm not going to tell you you need to move to a survival ranch in Montana and never be on electronics again. I don't think that's realistic for you and I living in North and South Florida. Like, we need certain things, and it is a good connection piece, but we have to have— if you're truly dedicated to having a deeper relationship and more communication with your family, you have to have Periods, consistent periods of complete and total unavailability. That makes sense.

Absolutely. Well, in the Jewish community, right, we have all the Sabbath, the Shabbat, and all the holidays, right? At sundown the night before till sundown the night, the next beautiful, beautiful, traditional Orthodox community.

There's no active use of electronics, which I love, which I've always loved, you know, because for my real estate investments, I worked a lot with Israel. I had a lot of investors coming over from Israel, especially after '08. And man, it was like, hey, we're out, we're done. And I love that because it was complete and total unavailability, right? And that's what I love to teach. And it's almost like a badge of honor for businessmen to say, I'm always on, you can reach me 24/7. That's a really terrible thing if you want to have a strong family life. So I always tell them, Jason, start small. Again, this is— and I know we've talked about this— intermittent fasting, I've read up on it, I believe it helps revive organs, it helps with fat loss and health and all sorts of things, and it's been proven to. So I say, what about some intermittent tech fasting? It's not saying you don't ever eat again, I'm not saying you don't ever use electronics, but you're very deliberate, you're very conscious of when you're using, so that the The family challenge that I've started to do for people is almost like the sunup to sundown for— it's pronounced the Shabbats, right? Yeah. What I've almost encouraged is a daily Shabbats. So I'm saying to start with 1 hour, but now I'm basically up to 2. So for me now, Jason, from about average 5:30 to 7:30 or 6 to 8, it's one of the two depending on when I'm getting home, I do an intermittent tech fast. You're not going to get me on email. You're not going to get me on social media. You're not going to get me on text. I'm down. Now here's the kicker. This is the kicker no one thinks about. This is in place for our entire family. Because if I just turn off my phone, then what does that do? Because if kids are like this, or wife is grabbing this, then we're not present for each of us in front of us. Everyone has to buy in. And I can't say, hey, you turn off your phones and we stay on. So we try to do a complete tech fast as a family. And here's what happens. We don't realize until we disconnect. Well, you guys, the Jewish community, because of Shabbat, but it almost feels eerie quiet and you feel a little awkward. But then what happens with that? Well, real communication starts to happen. You start planning your next adventure. You bring up a question on a deeper meaning that's not how's the weather. And you start to have real conversation and start to do things maybe outside instead of sitting around and this and that. Again, to do that just for starting for 1 hour a day, because we all know you get that one text, that one email, that one Facebook thread that's not even important to you but goes against something that you agree with. I'm going to argue this back. Oh my gosh. Look at the people in front of you.

You get sucked down that rabbit hole with that. It's very similar to a concept I share with my clients about the idea of creating space versus sharing space. At home, everybody's— well, you know, someone's watching Netflix, someone's on their laptop, someone's right on their whatever it is, and they're sharing space. And they're like, but we're, but we're together, right? And a couple can even be doing this on the couch or, or a parent and their child, and they're watching TV. They're together. Yeah, sharing space. But that's very different than what you're talking about and what I share with my clients about creating space together. So I know you're really, really— I don't want to use the word fanatic, but fanatic in a good way about there's a major way where a parent can help change with their child. There's certain things that you talk about with education, right?

Yeah, I think one of the biggest secrets to having a closer, more meaningful relationship with your kids is to get involved in their education. And, you know, I don't know where it got written that, you know, all of our education has to be subcontracted out to the government or, you know, fancy private schools and institutions. You should get involved. And what I've learned is in my entrepreneurial career, like how I met you, Normally at the best events that I've been to, there are 3 buckets that are always discussed if they're really going to be holistic with true value, and that's personal development, relationship skills, and financial intelligence. I believe those 3 things are rarely taught in school and are very important subjects. And what happened is I started to learn about these more in my early 20s. The people that I was learning them with, students in my mastermind groups or my— these events became very good friends because they're very powerful. Powerful, strong subjects, and they will breach upon spiritual principles that cross over different religious groups. That's such a beautiful thing. If you're willing to learn these things with your kids and get involved, like you saw my son was at the last event when we were together. Oh my gosh, Jason Wasser, the conversations that came up about Radical Simplicity and That just doesn't happen. And it wasn't coming straight from me, it was coming from other people speaking. So I encourage everyone out there, not saying you have to pull them out of school and homeschool them or unschool. Try to get involved a little bit. You don't have to become their full tutor, but if you will start to share lessons in those 3 areas with your kids, wow, not only are you going to be called to a higher level in those 3 areas, which I think are very important, personally and professionally, but you're going to become closer to your kid.

100% agree. And I love the thing that Rick does, Rick Sappiau, the creator of Business Finishing School where we met, is that he always makes it a point to interact with the kids, the teens, and the children that are there. And I love seeing— so last night I happened to go hear Grant Cardone and Daymond John. They were speaking here in Fort Lauderdale, and I saw how few people actually brought their children.

Yeah.

It was only about real estate, but it was about financial freedom, right? And it doesn't matter what the venue or the vehicle is to get that freedom as it fits for every person. But the lack of parents who decided to bring their children to a free event to hear someone who started off struggling and went through drug addiction and lost his father at an early age. And then you have Damon on the other side, right, who was raised by a single mom in Queens and built his own business out of the back of his truck and built Echo. All right, not Echo, Fubu. And right, so these people who have come through these family-based challenges and built an empire for themselves. My challenge to the people who are listening is how do you get your families more engaged in your entrepreneurial life in a way that you can bring it home and everybody can be involved, right? When we talk about core values, when we talk about simplicity, when we talk about rhythms and rituals, How do we get all that involved on the same level where we're all speaking the same language, we're all working towards the same goals? Where there's a family I'm friendly with through the Entrepreneur Circles, Martin and Chelsea Matthews, they bring their 10, 11-year-old son to everything they go to, the 10X conferences, and he's now teaching financial tips to other kids his age, and he has his own little platform and Instagram and YouTube channels. Like, it blew my mind when I saw that.

Yeah, and a couple of things. I think you start slow, um, and if there's something like that, again, look at 3 buckets. This is something on relationship skills, which are never taught. I was— I taught a few months ago to the Harvard Business Alumni, and I was scared. I was like, these are the Harvard guys, and they said, thank you, we were never taught this. We were never taught this. So if it's anything in relationship skills, personal development, or financial intelligence, like, and I'm sure all 3 were blended in what you were just at, Try to bring them to one thing. Listen to one TED Talk around and start small, because here's what I know about teens or young kids, tweens, teens, whatever they call it now, is they have finely tuned BS detectors. Finely tuned. And what they're always saying is, which I used to say back in school, so what, who cares, how is this going to help me now and possibly in my future? They're always saying that. I was. And you know what, I'm going to give a little kudos to myself. Some of the stuff in school I knew what I was good at, what has never helped me. But what I found— and that's okay— but what I found is kids in these subjects normally, maybe they're not always going to be into it, but a little bit will start to seep in and their BS detectors are up. And the lessons, I'll just say, wait, I see how this could help me now and in the future. So you start small, um, and, and that's the absolute key. Let it unfold, but don't say, oh, it's too much of a hassle. Oh, they're going to be bored. Good. That's okay. Um, but you have to start to get them involved with it. What I, what I learned was, and credit to my kids, to my parents, I had some exposure at young ages to like Napoleon Hill and Dale Carnegie and great guys like that. So it was kind of a seed that was pushed into me, you know, from the side and it festered there. You know, and I'm like, ah, kind of growing inside you, and then it starts to sprout by, you know, 18, 19, like, geez, those lessons really matter when you go deep into them.

Which makes you very, very, very lucky. So even though I'm the child of now a third-generation furniture business, I decided to go into the therapy and coaching world, and I didn't really get that solid education on financial principles.

Yeah.

And I grew up in a very relatively affluent community here in South Florida. I was on scholarship, so I was the kid who, right, when my friends were getting Range Rovers at 16 years old, I'm like, I don't even know if I can even afford a car.

Right.

So it's an interesting dynamic for many people out there who might have the blessings of having come from money. And then the other side of the coin of having the blessings of not having come from money.

Right.

And what you can learn, but I don't, I want to challenge everybody out there to not use one side or the other as an excuse because like you said, you got exposed to like Napoleon Hill and all these really amazing thought leaders and, and stuff that's really popular today. I think one of the benefits that like, that the teen, tween, college-age emerging adult has is the technology available to them. And entrepreneurship right now is the cool thing to do.

Yeah, yeah, it has. I mean, there was nothing like Shark Tank or any of those when I was a kid. So it's kind of easy to push in that direction. And not everything has to come from you as a parent. Like I've told you, I use a lot of fun uncles and fun aunts. Like on this trip to Costa Rica I just got back from, we had two fun uncles there. One was an entrepreneur with an incredible story coming back from some really difficult children things. I said, Chris, here's what I'm trying to communicate with Alden, some tough things that he had gone through. Could you help me with this? Because sometimes the hierarchy of a parent, it's just, it's too direct at that team. So if you have some fun uncles or fun aunts bringing it in from the side, it's a little better received. So I love, love using our fun uncles and fun aunts.

You're kind of like squeezing in some really cool mentorship there.

Yeah, and it's, you know, it takes a village to raise a child is the old saying. So what, what you, you know, what I might say to my son, I could say 8 times even with our good relationship, but he doesn't receive it. And then someone like you or Rick or someone comes through and, hey, you know, Rick Sappio, our very Italian friend from— but he says it in a funny way and it penetrates. Gets through, it gets let past the gate. And who cares who gets the credit? I'd love to give Rick the credit as long as my son is getting the lesson. So I encourage people, find— and again, with the nice thing about what I know of all my friends, you know, because I grew up in Morristown, New Jersey, I— half of my friends were of the Jewish community. The rabbinical college is there, you know, it's, it's a very community-oriented thing, which you have to be willing to share with each other Hey, here's what I'm going through. Could you maybe help find someone with really set core values that can also talk to your kids? It could be an older kid in another family. That's been so helpful to me. People go, oh, you have this great relationship. I say, yeah, but I've had so many other people help me mentor my kids. They haven't received it all from me. Even if I've tried to tell it to them, they haven't taken it. So anyway, for what that's worth.

So when you're talking about mentors, What are some of the key things from your mentors throughout your life that's really been empowering, impacting, and powerful for you that's gotten you to where you're at today? What are some of those lessons?

Well, I think the best mentors that I've had have been, have been no BS and have been themselves. Um, that's been really helpful for me. They're not afraid to share their story. So it's not all glitz and glamor, you know, they've gone through some tough times and they've shared those tough times and how they've overcome them. And they've been vulnerable. So vulnerability, I know Brené Brown and that has the big TED Talk on vulnerability. I'm a big believer in that. They've been vulnerable and also they lead by example. Like how we met, Rick has been a good friend and mentor for years. I was introduced to him at a big event he was speaking at. We became friends instantly. And it's one of those things, but he, I had been introduced to a lot of big guys, um, and I don't necessarily want the most popular. I want someone who has dinner with their kids 5 nights a week, you know, or 6 at least, even with running these— this huge empire. Um, that attracted me, you know, and just sharing certain core values. So I always try to pick a mentor with shared core values, you know, that value-based decision-making. I don't care if they've made a billion dollars. If we do not share values, they don't talk to their kids, their health is in the toilet, they rip people off, they don't believe in active service and contribution, I don't want to learn from them. So anyway, that's a kind of, I guess core values have been one of the biggest things. There's been an authenticity, a vulnerability.

Yeah. And we're finding that now where everybody's now a social media entrepreneur and everybody's dropping all this information. I remember last night I was walking up the escalator and I can't even count how many people are on their phone, right? Live streaming or Instagramming, whatever, like giving whatever their shtick is over. And I'm trying to like, what is it that they're trying to accomplish? What are they trying to really put out there except for just being seen? Which I know, like, right, for a kid, a lot of times it's not necessarily, and especially in relationships in general, it's not always what they're trying to say, but they just want to be seen. They just want to know, are you listening to me? Are you hearing me? And I think social media has turned into that. Surrogate parent of, am I putting something out there that you accept and you find value in me?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's been some good and bad to that. I think it does— you hit the nail on the head, Jason Wasser. I mean, you're, you're the expert in this, in the family therapy, and kids just want to be heard. A lot of times they're not in the rush of hustle. Oh no, we listen, we listen. No, we don't. And they want to be heard. That's a starting point. And that's a starting point of where to be heard. Now, they also know that we cannot delegate family life to social media, though. There comes a line in that where it's healthy for it to be heard, but then it's like all of their approval comes from that. That can be a dangerous thing where, you know, they're trying to get thumbs up where it's something completely out of the core values of them and your family, but it feels good to get that much attention. So that's where, as parents, we really have to be there to make sure Their, their most validation should always come from home, not from social media. And if we keep that balance where we're giving them validation, we're giving them respect— not saying you can't discipline, that's not what I'm saying at all— but there is a validation and respect and appreciation coming from you at home. They won't need to give an over amount of validation to social media for what the results are, if that makes sense. Yeah.

And one of the things that I love about your story is that there was a way that you found to be able to reverse the validation back to a parent of yours about something that you've done for them. And you talked a little bit about that before when you talk about the organ donation.

Yeah. So my dad went into the hospital. It was almost a decade ago for, I think it was 42 days. And he had had a stubborn Irishman. He had strep throat, never got antibiotics and it lodged in his kidneys, came out later as this condition. So the doctor said, "You have to go on dialysis, you probably have 2 years to live, or you can get a kidney donation." So I raised my hand, he said, "Oh no, absolutely not, no way, no, no, no." So it was a big, big experience for my dad and I to go through, because he wasn't even going to accept the kidney. So a lot of the principles I teach, I fell backwards into, How am I going to get my dad to accept this? Um, so I started to turn off my phone and be there for him because I was always building. And probably for the first time in my life, and you know my power of this, when people are like, well, I want to be closer, better communication, the one-on-one principle is so simple but so overlooked. For if you're trying to connect with someone deeper, you gotta have one-on-one time with them. They can't be at a huge you know, bar mitzvah where there's 400 people running around and you want to have this deep conversation, that just doesn't work. Not that those aren't beautiful. I love family reunions and that, but like, it was really the one-on-one time that my dad and I started to have. And I remember it was specifically one day on the beach after lunch that we sat there and talked, and for the first time, I think, in our life, I felt like he had my back and vice versa. And I was able to say in just this clarity, no phones, you know, we were there, we had asked each other some powerful questions. I said, if you don't allow me to do this kidney donation, you haven't— you're not allowing me to be the man you raised me to be. And it came out so clear at that point, it was like checkmate, like you need to do this. And, you know, the conversation was having afterwards, he's like, I was being really selfish not to let you do that. I was— I thought I was burdening, you know, thank you. And so it was an incredible experience, you know, to to go through together. And obviously it brought us much closer, but it's important to know we weren't close. But again, I love mortality for one reason. I was able to say to my dad, and a lot of people, if you're still lucky to have a parent or even your kids, I said to my dad, look, we might be doing this kidney donation and there's a risk. You know, you go to the Mayo Clinic and you have to sign these papers like, yeah, you're healthy, you're fit, but you might die. I said, if we are going to go out, I don't want to go out with strangers. I mean, what good has all this been about? If we're going to do something like this, let's not go out with strangers. And that forced the conversation for probably, you know, and I joke this, you know, the old Irish Catholic from New York, no one's more stubborn than that. You know, and you might say, oh no, I got some Jewish friends, but, um, You know, it just wasn't in our natural things to share these things. Everything had to be okay. We had to get through things. You had to stay strong. And not that you're not staying strong, but again, real communication. So that was— it forced us to that level. But, you know, Kenny, my dad's doing great. I started to realize what was really important to him that we, you know, I was able to support more moving forward and things important to me moving forward. But I don't think people have to wait to donate an organ for that. What I just said is we all have the final curtain. I don't want to go out as strangers. We don't know when we're going out. So even if you feel like throwing up, which I did when I was talking to my dad on the beach that day, do it anyway. Do it anyway. And make sure you're one-on-one without these phones. And I can share with you, I know we have, you know, I have a connection form. It was 3 simple questions we created on the beach that day. By accident of, you know, what do you really care about? What are the things you care about? What are the things you respect about me you never told me? You know, Jason, I sat on the beach that day with my dad. In 35 years, I had never told him how much I respected him for growing up without a dad. You know, Irish immigrants come to New York. He was in World War I. He was gassed. He died in his early 40s from, you know, from the repercussions of it. My dad was 6 years old. Lost his dad at 6 years old. Never once, ever, even with the recession of the '80s, tough times we went through, did I ever hear my dad say, "What do you expect? I didn't have a father." He never played that card ever. But I never told him I respected that. Can you believe that? In 35 years, I never said, "You know, Pop, you never grew up with a father, and I really respect that, that you never played that bailout card because you didn't." You know, so it's amazing the things that we think we've said of such great importance and we've never said.

So, so profound. And I know so many people out there are waiting, both parents and children, to hear those words. I'm proud of you.

Yeah. Oh yeah. It's, it's amazing to hear. Here's, here's 3 things. A lot of people, well, my father, usually the father, because I think women are more emotionally involved for the most part. I really do. But it goes on both. Never said I loved you. Never said I was proud of you. And never gave them a sincere apology if they did wrong. See, parents are so prideful and sometimes our ego, or they feel justified, like, well, you know how hard I work. Yeah, I messed up there. I don't need to apologize. Man, sincere apology can go a long way. And that's one thing I pride myself on. I remember even one of our family things recently, my 13-year-old got in trouble and my 15-year-old said, "Yeah, Leland, like Dad. I mean, you know, he messes up, but he gives those sincere apologies." So it's like I have those mini earthquakes, you know, so it's not the big one, but a sincere apology goes so far. And a lot of times we're not willing to give them. Yeah.

And I know that a lot of people may or may not be familiar with a way to really target that is by learning one, the Five Love Languages, right? If you're, if you're in a relationship to learn it of yourself and your partner, there's the Five Love Languages from children, but there's also the Five Apology Languages. Like what's the right way you need to apologize to the person you might have wronged? There's a certain way that you need to receive it differently. Than your wife or your children, or I might need to. There's so many really cool resources out there that we can use to really speak the words that the other person needs to hear in their filter.

And I just learned something there. I didn't know there was 5 things. I love it. You'll have to send that to me because this is why I love having, having dancers like this, because you always pick up a nugget that's life-changing.

Yeah. And speaking of life-changing, and I know you mentioned this idea of 18 Summers, let's talk a little bit more about that. This is a big thing, and this is one of the things that you really spent a lot of your time really bringing to the world, is this concept of 18 summers. And that led you to writing a book, correct?

Yeah, we wrote a book called The Family Board Meeting: You Have 18 Summers to Connect with Your Children. And it really came again, there was that what you described before as passing time and quality time. How do we really open up the lines of communication, be more consistent, be more present? And when I first adopted my sons at 7 and 5, I wanted to get to know them, but I was also running a pretty big real estate investment company that almost went bankrupt in the meltdown. So we gave them these quality time coupons at Christmas one year and said, these are your quality time coupons. You got 4 every quarter. And they didn't know what a quarter was, but they're like, you cash one of these in. My phone's going off. We're spending the day together, at least 4 hours together. You choose it, you design it, we're doing it. And that was it. And all of a sudden became known as the board meeting strategy, an important meeting with dad. And that simple strategy, which I share about, because again, Jason, I watched so many people, and by this time we were doing some family retreats kind of on the side. Rick and his family had been, it just, there were so many people that bought into this. I need to step away from my family for the next 5 to 10 years to build my business. That's terrible advice, especially when you think of the only— the 18 summers are so important when they're young. So I've tried to put again these pilings in. The simple strategy which the book is about is saying your children and your spouse are by far your most important investors and clients. A lot of people are wired like entrepreneurs. Why fight it? They are like by far my biggest investors and clients. So every quarter I do a board meeting with each one of my children. That means I'm spending at least 4 hours, half a day or a full day with them. And there's only 3 principles: one-on-one without electronics and a fun activity of their choice with focused reflection at the end, which basically just means communication at the end. And people go, gosh, that's too simple, that doesn't work. It's been proven now. This has been out there for about 8 years. This one thing has definitely bridged the gap between so many entrepreneurs and their kids. It's made them more present, more consistent, get below the surface. So they're having conversations with, with their kid that they never thought they'd have. They thought they'd go to the internet or their friends for that. And you have a fun time. You then discover— it discovers what their interests, what are their passions, how do you support them better, because these things blend together. So that's what the book is all about, this one simple System A and I talk about the importance of dating your spouse. If you're not going on a date once a week with your spouse, it's like you're not brushing your teeth every day. It's just a terrible thing for your marriage. But the board meeting strategy, Jason, if people would just do this, where so many of the things that I'm sure you see in your office that they do about, look, if every quarter you're spending a day with your child one-on-one doing something fun of their choice, both your phones are off. It's like a regrouping of the relationship. You know, board meetings for big entrepreneurial companies was always— what are they about? Well, they're about reuniting the team and looking ahead to the next 90 days. And I talk about this in the book, the principle of anticipation and reflection. I've been doing these now for 8 years with my sons and now with my younger daughter. My youngest son, who's 2 and a half, has just started. These are the markers of memories and deep conversations. So many of the breakthroughs have occurred. And as you know, with my oldest son, he was going through some pretty serious recoveries. You know, my wife was married young, and terrible situation, married to a high school boyfriend right after college, alcohol addiction, abuse. She stood up for herself, got out of it, got full custody of the two boys, and I met her a few years later. And the experience had been especially trying on my oldest son, Alden. And when I first came into his life, he was a terrible student, close to failing. He was put on the spectrum at school for autism, and he suffered every night from night terrors. And if people— I know you know what they are, but if people out there don't know what they are, you're lucky, because it's when your child wakes up in a half-conscious state, screaming and terrified. It's terrible. It can take hours to get back to sleep. And knowing my, my positive naivety, I knew this could change. And that's when the quality time coupons came out, when we started to have our board meetings. And within one year, Jason Wasser, and my wife and I can go back to the conversations and the days that we spent, we started to loosen up. And within one year, he went from failing to getting the most improved student of the third grade. He got the award, he was beaming. They retracted the diagnosis of autism. It wasn't autism, it was stress-related. He just needed someone who was there to make him feel safe and appreciated. And probably most rewarding for me was— and my wife— was within one year, the night terrors were gone. So if this does not show the power of quality time, because I think this is where I love working together with guys like you that can bring people into healing. But there's also exercises you have to do on your own when you're home, when you're not in your office. And this one strategy, it was uncomfortable for me to share. I didn't want to tell people about this. I didn't want to tell them the struggles my son was in. Now that we tell it more, you know, you've met him. He said, no, I want you to share this because he's come so far. He's a big, strong, good-looking kid, athlete, you know, but it came so far in that one year. This is the power of quality time. This is the power of rhythms. And I promise people out there, you put this one strategy to work with your kids, it's not going to get you all the way there. But so many people have told me it'll get you 80% of the way there.

Yeah, it's such a profound shift when, especially when I'm having parents come in and like, well, we're not sure if there's a diagnosis or what's going on. And they have never been able to tap on it, tap into the core issues. And then I start talking about family structure because a lot of times they just want to do drop-off therapy.

Right. Doesn't work. Meditation or drop-off therapy. Sometimes there's need for both, right? But not always, right?

And as a systemic thinker where the relational dynamics are so important, I won't work with a kid without a parent being willing to come in for majority of the sessions. Doesn't mean the kid's not gonna get their one-on-one time as needed, but majority of the time I really try to do it with the parent and the kid interacting and engaging way more than I I'm just doing that one-on-one.

Very smart. Very smart.

And I recently have a family I've been working with for the last couple of years who I adore, and their child is about to go off to college at the end of this year. And the mom, who is just this really lovely human being, is so afraid that she didn't do her job right. She didn't finish her every lesson that she can ever teach her right in the span of 18 years, as if she's not going to be teaching her daughter right after she graduates more lessons. So I challenged her last week when we were on our last coaching call, write down a list of things, topics, themes, daily living activities that you think that your child should know by the time that they leave your house when they graduate school.

Yeah.

What is the curriculum that you think that in order for you to feel that you have been a a successful parent. And then we're going to go through that list and say like, what's really authentic for a kid to realize at 18 years old? Like maybe they shouldn't have successful financial strategies the way a 35-year-old business person should have. But let's talk about bare minimum competencies, because a lot of times as parents, we have these expectations for our, for the children up here. And, and, and the question I asked this person was, but what happens if that your child's threshold capability really is here. And you're expecting them here and you're only relating to them here. Right? I'm a big fan of Jesse Itzler's What's the 4% More?

Right?

It's not the whole football field, but what's the extra, you know, third and inches, right? Sometimes gets a first down. So as I was on conversation with that parent, like, it was just like this, like, aha moment. Well, maybe they're not here now. But as maturity grows, and they really do struggle, if they're version of a rock bottom challenge, they'll figure it out. Yeah, I know that I was radically capable of it. So it's really, really, really, really powerful. So I know one of the things that you, you and I talk a lot about is rhythms. And we'll tie everything in with that, that people think that the more scheduled, the more rituals you have, the more time that things are organized out on the calendar, the less freedom you have.

But actually, it's the opposite. Yeah. Rhythms don't take away freedom, they create them. Because like I do every, every Thursday night, 5:30 to 8:30, I'm on a date with my wife. We call it date night with a question. We go out, we don't want to just talk about the weather, so we bring at least one powerful question so, so that we're connecting, continuing to date. But that's a rhythm, right? You know, years ago, We've been doing it for years now, but my wife's like, don't you want to go out? Don't you want to date? But I'm running this way. And I said, of course I do. Can we set something up? But I don't have to think about it now. I look so forward to Thursday night, 5:30 to 8:30 now. But with me being a little more ADD with entrepreneurial, a little more A personality, I wasn't staying focused. So that's not something that puts me in bondage. It's something that frees me like, oh my gosh, I have this time with my wife. I know when it is. Everything can move around it. Like, don't schedule me a podcast at 6 o'clock on Thursday. I'm not going to be there. So I— and it was Rick who had said years ago when he started using this, this is so smart because I've learned rhythmize around your most important relationships. And what people think is, well, oh gosh, Jim and Jason are talking about rhythms. That means I need to set 27 rhythms that I need to keep checking off. I'm talking like 3 or 4, you know, like I'll give you like the basic ones that hold our family together. And then, but the core ones, date night with a question with my wife every Thursday, 5:30 to 8:30. No one's talking to me. My phone's not welcome. We're going to ask each other 1 or 2 powerful questions that are really nice. Like, who was the most influential teacher you had as a child and why? Unpack that. Tell me what they did. Because I want to do more of that for my wife. And vice versa. And we can share those lessons with our kids. That's just one example. We also do our quarterly board meetings, which I just described. Every quarter, I know to deepen the relationship, I'm spending a day with each one of my kids following those principles. Done. Every day we have our ritual of the intermittent tech fast, right? Those are 3 starters. Just those 3 start to, again, Rhythms. I love the word rhythms because it has a musical soul, some musical element. It holds the beat, right? Boom, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, boom, ba, ba, ba, ba, boom. And that's what we want. So those are 3. I'm not talking 27. Those things have held together my family life. Just those 3 things alone have held together my family life.

So they're not crazy, right? They're so simple once you commit to it and you get everybody on board. Board.

Yeah, once you do them and you get everyone involved, it's such an easy starting point. You know, people are like, well, I'm not feeling close to my kids. Good. You need to make consistent deposits of one-on-one time with them. Follow the strategy. My wife and I aren't really talking as much. Good. Not good, but good. Here's what you're going to do. Set a date night. Bring one or two powerful questions. Do it every week, and if you're away, then reschedule it, but have one set day. Just those two things, and then if you start to have an hour or two hours without any tech and you're kind of forced to communicate, where the family dynamic can go from having no rhythms to just those simple three, Jason Wasser, is stunning. It's not, it's not like, oh yeah, we moved up, you know, and I love the third ninjas, but this will really This is like, you were like, oh my gosh, this was an 80-yard Hail Mary pass that now, you know what I mean? It can leapfrog you in not in one week, but in 6 months. Oh my gosh. Oh my God.

Yeah. So I know there's probably people out there that are going to be listening to this. Like, I don't even know what question to ask that either won't trigger a fight, that won't be old business. Right. So John Gottman, I'm not sure if you've heard of John Gottman. He's one of the top marital relationship researchers in the world. He's out in Seattle, and he can predict with 83% accuracy by watching a couple in his clinic whether they're going to stay together or not if they don't make any changes or interventions in their communication style. He has this whole theory of love maps, which are about 20 or so core questions that are basically the familiarities that a couple should have with each other.

Oh, I have heard of these. Yes, yes.

And they can also apply to children and everything can be easily adapted. But he has a deck of cards that he created that have those questions on, like multiple questions.

Oh, very cool.

For those out there that are, you know, stuck, like, I don't even know where to begin. I'm not a question asker.

I don't—

whatever. The mind just goes blank. They're just overwhelmed. Treat yourself. I can't imagine how expensive it is, but go out and go on Amazon and buy this, this deck of Gottman question cards and make it easy, right? There's so many resources out there. I love this memory that I have. I had a couple that think like, we want to have the best relationship. I'm like, cool. So I just want to get some data about the work you've done before you've come in to see me in my office. And I'm like, so how many, how many other therapists or how many hours in therapy have you kind of spent before you came here today? I got a zero. All right, that's cool.

I know.

I'm glad I'm your first one. We can You know, I don't have to break you down from what might have been, you know, not working for you the last time. Books, books on couples and relationships, nothing. YouTube videos, nothing. Conversations with your pastor, rabbi, imam, guru, nothing. So you're saying you want X, but you've done nothing to show outside of now coming in today after all these years So I want to help, you know, one, with your book, two, with these resources, right? The Five Love Languages, the Gottman Cards. There really is no excuse for anybody.

Well, there's a difference too, Jason, as you know. People can be interested or committed. And there is such a huge difference between interest and commitment. And again, I'm going to beat on this, guys. This guy's like, yeah, of course I want to. You have to feel uncomfortable and vulnerable, and it's unnatural to the beginning point, but there's— are you interested or are you committed? That's what I've learned. And if you can step onto the commitment side, you're going to start to see results because all those things would have been a couple of yeses there. You know what I mean? We make time for what's truly most important to us or we want to work on. And like you said, with interviews like this and things, there are starting points. Maybe it's not, it's not going to get you 100% of the way there, but 80%, you know. And I am going to give a little plug, um, because we just designed— because people, I started to talk like Rick Stage, date night with a question. What are your questions? I said, well, we just started getting online and looking up off of different things and creating some of our own. So now we've put together a 60-deck card.

Awesome.

Of that. And, you know, we're going to start either just giving them away or, you know, 10 bucks or something, just because people were like, don't go on a date without a powerful question. Because the thing, better life, ask better questions. So it's an— it is amazing that first year we started to do this. I mean, think about it, 1 to 2 questions. I mean, I'm learning 50 to 75 things about my wife that year that I really wasn't crystal clear on at all.

So, so powerful. So, so for those of us out there who are just hearing about you for the first time, how can they track you down? How can they reach you? How can they attend one of your retreats? Please share.

Yeah, if you want to, right now we're only doing private talks and workshops for different groups, but you can reach out to us if you have an interest for that. We have gone to some different religious communities and that, which has been really fun, and some different business organizations. You can go to 18Summers.com to learn more about us, or you can get the book The Family Board Meeting on Amazon. Again, it's $10, and that is such a starting point of to learn our core values and how you can start to put some simple rhythms to practice. It can be read on a flight from New York to Florida. That's what people have told me. So that's where I would encourage a starting point. Visit us at 18Summits. We also have our private Facebook community if you're looking for a little more support on that and follow kind of people. Say, well, tell us what you're doing with your family. I share some more personal things of what we're actually doing with our family.

Awesome. So I wanted to thank you again for being able to share your time with us. I know that you just came back from a big vacation, and, you know, obviously if anybody has any questions, they can reach out to you, they can reach out to me. And I really want to congratulate you on all the amazing things that you've been doing with your family, the things that your family is doing, and that you're bringing out to the world. And thanks for spending your time with us this morning.

Thanks for having me. It's good to see you again.

Great to see you. Looking forward to seeing you soon.